Potential conflict between Nale and their father

[Random832]

There's been some speculation about the Lord Tyrinar subplot finally coming up now that they're on the western continent, and it's of course widely assumed that Nale and Elan's father is Lord Tyrinar.

I don't think anyone's mentioned this recently, so... http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0061.html

"...no one denies me, Elan. Not father, not you, no one."

[NerfTW]

Oh crap, I totally forgot about that line. And here that's been my pet theory for years that the western gate would involve Nale teaming up with his father.


My first "I need to read this strip already" strip was the one where Nale was using the sending scroll to talk to Roy. I had tried to read several times but never really got up to the appearance of the Linear Guild, but suddenly I wanted to know why Elan had some evil goatee dream form. Once I saw Nale and his team, I was hooked.

[David Argall]

It does hint at trouble with dad, tho the very fact his heir is on another continent instead of at home helping run the country is probably a stronger hint.
However, we can use just about any relationship at all at this point. Dad has had plenty of time to forgive Nale, or to hate him, and since Nale gets angry over the least thing, dad may have no idea Nale is even unhappy.

While the vague outline is clear enough, the details are quite vague and quite important. For example, we could have dad dying, and determined to be succeeded by his son. But Nale and Elan have their eyes on the Gate and want to avoid being the next king. So the boys battle to avoid becoming king. Alternately, ma comes into the picture some way and the two remarry and get to work on a new heir. Or ...

We have hints, but right now it is pretty much pure guess.

[Linkavitch]

Yeah, that is a very good point. I look forward to seeing Nale be shut down multiple times by his father, to hilarious effect.:smallsmile:

[waterpenguin43]

I think Elan will have a Darth Vaderish meeting with his father, and the Order may fight the Linear Guild for the last time at Girard's gate.

[skim172]

I figured Nale killed his father. That was my understanding of Nale's response to Elan asking why he tried to kill him: "No one denies me - not Father, and not you."

It's certainly an enticing plot thread and I figure it'll come into play when the author thinks it's time. Of course, it's entirely possible it won't - having too many values in play can hurt a plot more than help it. Consider that if Nale's father comes into this, he'll have to be a villain of some sort. If he ends up with a larger story arc, that's at least three separate main villains running around, and I'm not a big fan of the "monster-of-the-week" formula of heroes overcoming villains.

[Jagos]

The question is how?

Nale usually has complex schemes that seem to go on (and on and on...) with him in the middle of them for his misplaced egotism.

How could he possibly defeat dear ol' dad if his scheme has some many ways to go wrong?

[Bibliomancer]

I figured Nale killed his father. That was my understanding of Nale's response to Elan asking why he tried to kill him: "No one denies me - not Father, and not you."

It's certainly an enticing plot thread and I figure it'll come into play when the author thinks it's time. Of course, it's entirely possible it won't - having too many values in play can hurt a plot more than help it. Consider that if Nale's father comes into this, he'll have to be a villain of some sort. If he ends up with a larger story arc, that's at least three separate main villains running around, and I'm not a big fan of the "monster-of-the-week" formula of heroes overcoming villains.

If Nale killed his father, where's the army? I think if you overthrow your own father, the least you could do would be to take over his army (especially if it's one that can overcome Sanctuary spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0074.html)).

Personally, I think that the father is still alive, but wanted Nale to stay at home instead of going off to form the Linear Guild. This would allow his father to still be in the picture and still account for all facts available to us. If he was still mad at Nale, there could be an interesting "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" scenario...especially if the Order of the Stick can help Lord Tyrinar in return.

[waterpenguin43]

If Nale's dad is dead, shouldn't Haley's dad be free?

[Morgan Wick]

Oh crap, I totally forgot about that line. And here that's been my pet theory for years that the western gate would involve Nale teaming up with his father.

I think there could still be a hint of tension between the two with them still teaming up. I think if Tyrinar cast out Nale for similar reasons to the Thieves' Guild casting out Haley or the dwarves casting out Durkon, that may be a sign an LG prequel should be announced before too long.


Personally, I think that the father is still alive, but wanted Nale to stay at home instead of going off to form the Linear Guild. This would allow his father to still be in the picture and still account for all facts available to us. If he was still mad at Nale, there could be an interesting "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" scenario...especially if the Order of the Stick can help Lord Tyrinar in return.

"If you'll free a certain prisoner for us..."

That would be interesting, a tyrant kinda-sorta portrayed as being on the side of good. I think the only real example of that in fiction would be Discworld's Lord Vetinari. At least it would be two-thirds of the way to being a trope now.

[skim172]

Now see, I thought Lord Tyrinar and Nale's father were different people.

Even if standard fantasy formula states that he who defeats the leader becomes the leader, an army may decide to follow a chain of command instead of supporting the killer of their beloved general.

A hypothetical situation: Nale displays his incredible sense of egotism, which his more lawful father looks down upon. As a result, his father appoints another, non-related lieutenant as his heir and second. Enraged at being denied, Nale slays his father, then flees the kingdom. The lieutenant takes the throne, as well as the title of "Lord Tyrinar."

But now that I think about it, it would be more convenient to combine two similar villainous characters into one.

[David Argall]

I figured Nale killed his father. That was my understanding of Nale's response to Elan asking why he tried to kill him: "No one denies me - not Father, and not you."

Father-son conflict is much more likely. A dead dad is rather dull. Much more interesting possibilities if he is alive, at least at the start. Maybe... Nale spots Elan and decides "I kill dad and blame Elan, knocking off two stone heads at once. Yes that is the sort of devious plot that is my style, once I make it a little more needlessly complicated..."

[Kish]

A hypothetical situation: Nale displays his incredible sense of egotism, which his more lawful father looks down upon.
*cough* There is no connection between "egotism" and "opposed to the Lawful alignment."

[Corvis]

*cough* There is no connection between "egotism" and "opposed to the Lawful alignment."

And believe me folks, he'd know!

(Ba-dump-pum! PSHH!)

I'll be here all week, don't forget to tip your waitress.

[Pronounceable]

Even if we ignore Nale completely, Elan would give an eye to have an "Elan, I am your father" moment. It's totally dramatic and, thanks to a certain similar scene, can be hillarious as well. Plus dad had an awesome helm in the flashback, removing that to reveal a face equal to Elan's would be a nifty moment as well, especially if Roy or Haley is there. Which we can't get if Nale killed dad.

And those are the sort of things the strip runs on. So I'm quite certain from those that Lord Tyrinar=the dad.

[skim172]

*cough* There is no connection between "egotism" and "opposed to the Lawful alignment."

I was thinking Nale might be selfish to the point of ignoring the order and organization of the military to satisfy his own desires. Nale strikes me as a Chaotic type.

Keep in mind, I haven't played D&D in years. And when I did, only one of my friends had the sourcebooks and he wouldn't share, so our interpretation of the game could be different from the norm. For us, "chaotic" meant self-serving and "lawful" meant for the greater good. Or evil, as the case may be.

And not all of us had all the fancy dice, so we had a version with all the dice rolls in multiples of six.

But your argument makes sense and I'd say you're probably right. I was just explaining what I was originally thinking.

[Rotipher]

Nale himself claims he's Lawful Evil. If he were Chaotic Evil, why would the Abyss have sent Sabine to win him over to the wild side?

[Somniloquist]

Nale thinks he's Lawful Evil, but then, he also thinks he's the Big Bad. He always struck me as more Neutral Evil.

A thought: even if he killed his father, that doesn't guarantee he stayed dead. Furthermore, Lord Tyrinar might have even goaded/tricked him into doing that to get him out of the way (regicide = skip town or die) for his own purposes, before the cleric he paid in advance raised him. Meaning Nale's been manipulated by two different factions.

[Rotipher]

Eh. I'm not sure I'd want to give Nale that much credit. It'd be more amusing if he left home because Lord Tyrinar called him out on how his plans aren't original (like V did), or if Tyrinar simply tried to force him into going to law school or something.