PDA

View Full Version : Tweaked Cleric Class - the Dedicat



eldersphinx
2005-10-31, 10:00 PM
As part of a probably-never-gonna-be-released campaign setting I have in mind, I'm introducing a tweaked version of the cleric class I've tentatively labeled the Dedicat. The concept here is that some divine casters, rather than receiving power from deities directly, instead channel divine energy through objects called "Godsaltars" - immobile artifacts, a few hundred or so of which exist in the campaign world. An (NPC) Dedicat who stays close to one Godsaltar will probably be a fair degree more powerful and effective than a cleric of similar level, but a PC Dedicat who journeys into dungeons or travels through the wilderness should have a similar level of power to a similarly-leveled cleric.

Potential changes I've identified are as follows:
* A dedicat must be within 100' of a Godsaltar at the time they prepare spells. A dedicat who isn't able to be close to a Godsaltar can't regain spells that day.
* A dedicat has flexible domain choices. A Godsaltar offers several domains to the dedicats who worship at it, generally three to six from the choices of Air, Death, Destruction, Earth, Fire, Healing, Knowledge, Protection, Strength, Sun, Travel, Trickery, War and Water. Whenever a dedicat prepares spells, they can choose any two domains from the domains available from that Godsaltar.
* Dedicats do not gain domain powers. (That would just be a headache.)
* Dedicats do not spontaneously cast healing or inflict magics. They can choose to spontaneously cast from their domain spell lists.
* Dedicats do not turn or rebuke undead. Instead, they can choose to ward themselves against undead. The dedicat activates this ability with a standard action, and makes a turning check; any undead with HD less than or equal to the turning check result cannot approach within 5' of the dedicat. The ward lasts for 1d6+Cha modifier rounds.
* Dedicats gain SR of 5 + caster level against divine spells only. The SR does not apply against arcane spells, or supernatural or spell-like abilities that would normally check against SR.

Does this seem reasonably balanced? If I want an NPC dedicat near a Godsaltar to be a CR +1 encounter, are there any class features that should be added?

Thanks in advance...

idksocrates
2005-10-31, 10:21 PM
I must say, this is a very difficult class to judge.

Really, the balance of the class is based on how often the character playing the dedicat is close to a godsalter. Characters who often go spelunking are obviously choosing an inferior character, even extending to those who travel often (as there are only a few hundred godsalters in the world.)
If anything, this isn't a valid player choice to use. Adventurers, as a rule, adventure, and can't afford to stay in one place. As an NPC class, however, its on par with a PC class, as they can stay in one place, and their power is weakened if lured or brough away from their godsalter.

ghostrunner
2005-10-31, 11:36 PM
I think it's fairly balanced, so long as the Dedicat is reasonably close to a Godsaltar. I think it's a really neat idea, but I really see it only filling a niche role in the setting; it may quickly get ignored by players as an option for PCs. If a PC chooses to be a Dedicat, then the party could very well end up revolving around him, especially if the party lacks a paladin or a standard cleric. Where the go and what they do will be determined by their proximity to a Godsaltar; the party will have no choice but to accomodate the Dedicat. If the party has to travel long distances, the Dedicat may end up as a meatshield rather than a mender of wounds.
It sounds like an excellent NPC class and would work well for Dedicat-themed campaigns, but it might be problematic for a standard campaign.

Perhaps a balancing feature would be to have more Godsaltars, but fewer domains per Godsaltar. Perhaps holymen from a particular diety or group of dieties perform some holy ritual or something to create the Godsaltars. Thus, any reasonably large city will be likely to have one (possibly two or more, depending on the range of Gods worshipped). That way, while travelling, the Dedicat can recharge fairly frequently, though he or she doesn't get to choose what spells to recharge.

Another idea would be to not strip the dedicate of his ability to regain spells, but make his spells become weaker over time. If he perpared his spells at an altar that grants domains X, Y, and Z, he can still get the spells from those domains, but they somehow become weaker and/or he regains less spells day by day until he meditates in the viscinity of a Godsaltar.

Toliudar
2005-11-01, 01:09 AM
I think it's always dangerous to rely on campaign circumstances (the occasional but not immediate access to a Godsaltar) to balance a class.

ghostrunner
2005-11-01, 06:45 PM
Another possible solution might be to give a Dedicat more spells/day. That is, when he prepares spells, he can prepare a few more than a cleric. He retains all of these until he uses them all or chooses to replace them when preparing spells again.
That could allow the dedicat, presuming he decides when and what to cast very carefully, to be useful in a party for a longer time when away from a Godsaltar.

However, this would create the opposite problem that the class already has; in your current incarnation, the Dedicat must stay close to a Godsaltar or it is underpowered. With this possible solution, if the Dedicat isn't away from a Godsaltar more often than not, he will be an unstoppable powerhouse.
Either way, the DM would have to plan this into his campaign from the start. As Toliudar implied, a balancing factor that relies on campaign circumstances is easily abused.

Lysander
2005-11-01, 11:10 PM
I like the idea. Though you require special artifacts the basic idea is a priest that can only recharge by praying at a temple.

About the balancing issue: What if the godsaltar just allows them to request what spells they receive daily? For example at the fire altar they can pray for fire spells and then every day they'll get the same fire-spells they requested whether they're in the deepest dungeon or in the middle of a city. To change what spells they get they would need to go to a different temple and request something different, which would replace their current daily spells.

This would make the class highly mutable but not versatile on a day to day basis. Every few weeks the Dedicat could change their domains and pick which new spells they wanted.

Then it's up to you if you want many of these things or a few. What if there's only a few altars for each domain? If a plant domain possessing dedicat passes by the war altar they'd have to really think about giving up plants if the plant altar was three month's travel back the way they came.

Randomman413
2005-11-02, 04:42 PM
Aw, that'd be cool. They'd actually have to go questing to get different spells. That would be really awesome. Perhaps a little time consuming and inefficient, but pretty neat.

FlashFire
2005-11-02, 04:52 PM
I like the idea. Though you require special artifacts the basic idea is a priest that can only recharge by praying at a temple.

About the balancing issue: What if the godsaltar just allows them to request what spells they receive daily? For example at the fire altar they can pray for fire spells and then every day they'll get the same fire-spells they requested whether they're in the deepest dungeon or in the middle of a city. To change what spells they get they would need to go to a different temple and request something different, which would replace their current daily spells.

This would make the class highly mutable but not versatile on a day to day basis. Every few weeks the Dedicat could change their domains and pick which new spells they wanted.

Then it's up to you if you want many of these things or a few. What if there's only a few altars for each domain? If a plant domain possessing dedicat passes by the war altar they'd have to really think about giving up plants if the plant altar was three month's travel back the way they came.


Lysander has a good idea here.... but there's a problem, why would a player want this class over a regular cleric? Now it seems too weak, and although cool and definitely would send them "questing" for certain spells, now they simply are unflexible clerics.

ghostrunner
2005-11-02, 05:19 PM
Lysander has a good idea here.... but there's a problem, why would a player want this class over a regular cleric? Now it seems too weak, and although cool and definitely would send them "questing" for certain spells, now they simply are unflexible clerics.
Perhaps if this idea were used, every couple levels the Dedicat could "memorize" a spell, so regardless of which altar he prays at, he retains that one spell in addition to the whatever spells he gains from the Godsaltar.
To further the ideas others have presented, that one spell must be chosen from a spell that the Dedicat could currently cast. Thus if he wants a particular spell, he'll have to seek out the proper Godsaltar to get it.

Lysander
2005-11-03, 04:31 AM
The Dedicat would have incredible flexibility. They'd be able to completely change their domains every so often. They would just need to plan in advance for that period of time between temples.

That's the pro vs con of the class (in my idea at least). You have the power to completely change your abilities but between altars you're stuck to what you chose earlier. You'd need to design spell lists with the next month in mind, not the next day.

And to handle the issue of class balance I'd say to make the Dedicat's domain-swapping spell-list choosing places be regularly spaced out over the world. Don't make them just temples or artifacts but instead "holy places". That way the temple in the huge city can be one, but so can the quiet forest clearing, or the funny rock in the middle of a plain. Space them one month's travel apart in something like a grid across your world so the Dedicat is always guaranteed of not being too far from one. To prevent the dedicat from being unbalanced while staying near a holy place simply make a time limit after switching spells before they can switch things again. Say only one change per week.

Bil123
2005-11-03, 05:01 PM
I like the idea for more spells per day otherwise the Cleric would be worthless in some cituations but only average in the best cases.

ghostrunner
2005-11-03, 07:03 PM
Here's a write-up of the Dedicat in .pdf format. I used the Cleric as a basis and changed things as necessary.
http://thefilehut.com/userfiles/ghostrunner/Dedicat.pdf
I threw in some of the ideas that I suggested, though I don't meant to say that that's all that's possible. So look over it and find my mistakes or problems. This is eldersphinx's idea, after all.
BTW, I wonder if eldersphinx will ever come back and look at our critique... ;)

Lysander
2005-11-03, 10:59 PM
I think the memorization ability is a bad idea. It seems like it dilutes the entire "dependant on altar" thing.

My idea wasn't that the Dedicat can only regain spells at an altar. They get spells every day with an hour of prayer, just like clerics do. However while a cleric can pick what spells they need for the next day the Dedicat is limited to the spells they selected a long time ago. They have just as many spells but very little flexibility away from a Godsaltar, the only place they can change their daily spells at. This is balanced by the fact that they can switch out domains. At the start of each adventure you could judge what types of spells you need for that adventure and remake your Dedicat accordingly. That's my idea of the Dedicat's balance. They lose short term options but gain the power to basically play a different cleric when they want to.

There's a lot of ways of doing this. It's a ripe idea.

ghostrunner
2005-11-10, 05:18 PM
Here's a dedicat truer to the originally concieved concept.
http://thefilehut.com/userfiles/ghostrunner/Dedicat.pdf

I also think that if the Dedicat is to be used in a campaign or setting, I would have it supplant the Cleric entirely. I would just say that the use of Godsaltars is how the gods interact with mortal races, and there is no other type of magic-wielding priest besides the dedicat.

CaptG1066
2005-11-10, 06:07 PM
In order to save the Dedicat as a PC ,it sounds to me like the high-level Dedicat needs a way to create a temporary Godsaltar, or influence the domains available at a Godsaltar. I also think that randomizing the domains available at a Godsaltar will make stationary Dedicates closer in power to mobile Dedicates.