Why is the Yellow-eyed fiend the one dealing with Tiamat?

[Ragn Charran]

As near as I can tell, the yellow-eyed fiend is the representative of the CE demons, being that he's the owner of Jephton's soul, who, particularly from his "Tear down creation just to see if you can" line seems to be the CE member of that trio (Ganonron being LE and Haera being NE).

So why is he the one who has to go deal with the LE Tiamat? Shouldn't that be the orange-eyed fiend, who is presumably (through his control of Ganonron and his friendship with the Blue and Sun Devil mascots) the devil of the trio? Seems to me that a lawful deity would want to have her direct subordinate report and take responsibility for what happened.

Just a random thought...

[Porthos]

As near as I can tell, the yellow-eyed fiend is the representative of the CE demons, being that he's the owner of Jephton's soul, who, particularly from his "Tear down creation just to see if you can" line seems to be the CE member of that trio (Ganonron being LE and Haera being NE).

So why is he the one who has to go deal with the LE Tiamat? Shouldn't that be the orange-eyed fiend, who is presumably (through his control of Ganonron and his friendship with the Blue and Sun Devil mascots) the devil of the trio? Seems to me that a lawful deity would want to have her direct subordinate report and take responsibility for what happened.

Just a random thought...

Because he was the one nearest to the phone when it rang. :smallwink:

[FoE]

As near as I can tell, the yellow-eyed fiend is the representative of the CE demons, being that he's the owner of Jephton's soul, who, particularly from his "Tear down creation just to see if you can" line seems to be the CE member of that trio (Ganonron being LE and Haera being NE).

So why is he the one who has to go deal with the LE Tiamat?

Remember, Tiamat resides in the Abyss. It only makes sense that the Yellow-Eyed Demon (heh, Supernatural reference) be the one to go speak to her.

[Zevox]

Why, exactly, would it matter which of them spoke to her? And what gives you the idea that they're her "direct subordinates"? There's no indication that they have any connections to her whatsoever.

Zevox

[Random832]

So why is he the one who has to go deal with the LE Tiamat?

The others said "not it" first - being chaotic, he's not as good at rules games like that.

[The Rose Dragon]

Remember, Tiamat resides in the Abyss. It only makes sense that the Yellow-Eyed Demon (heh, Supernatural reference) be the one to go speak to her.

Since when? Tiamat has always guarded the entry to the second layer or Nine Hells in 3rd Edition, even before she was made a goddess.

[hamishspence]

in Tymora's Luck novel by Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb, it said- Takhisis is tiamat, and the Abyss in Dragonlance is actually a small area of the Nine Hells in the Planescape setting.

However, I'm not sure how canonical this is- it might be an attempt to weld the two cosmologies together.

[Ragn Charran]

Since when? Tiamat has always guarded the entry to the second layer or Nine Hells in 3rd Edition, even before she was made a goddess.

That was my impression as well. I have always thought Tiamat was LE (making the Takhisis = Tiamat idea not work well for me). But I'll agree with Zevox that "direct subordinate" may be too strong a term, but given that Tiamat is a LE supernatural being who is MUCH stronger than them and rules over a section of Baator, devils should at least pay lip service to her authority in traditional LE fashion.

[Tingel]

his friendship with the Blue and Sun Devil mascots
I don't remember those. Where did they appear?

[Kish]

Takhisis is also LE. Not that I'm real fond of the idea of them being equivalent, myself. In some of the Dragonlance books, that was a big thing, that both she and Paladine valued order. (And don't get me started on how Weis and Hickman handle the alignment system.)

[Ragn Charran]

I don't remember those. Where did they appear?

#640, orange-eye's old college buddies.

[Thanatosia]

I agree with the theory that Yellow got to make the diplomacy check just because he was the closest at hand when the secretary brought the phone. An alternative explanation is that the secretary appears to be a succubus, and as such, a subordinate of the CE fiend.

As for Tiamat, she's located in the 9 hells of baator in the standard D&D Cosmology, but the OOTS universe clearly does not run off this.... there is no Vecna, Wee Jass, etc wich have become 'core' dieties outside their original campaign settings in the D&D Cosmos, and Bahamat seems to have been replaced with an older incarantion of Marduk. So I think an assumption that Tiamat is LE and located in Baator might be unfounded.

[Zevox]

but given that Tiamat is a LE supernatural being who is MUCH stronger than them
I think you're underestimating their power. The three are implied to be Archfiends - the epic Timestop they so casually included in the letter to V is a strong indicator, for instance, as is their ability to perform the Soul Splice. The strongest Archfiends are often equal to or even above the power of some gods in D&D, and even lesser ones won't be that far below a god's power. Plus Lee seems to have easily survived Tiamat's apparently breath-weapon-based wrath, which again indicates he's no normal fiend.

Zevox

[Berserk Monk]

As near as I can tell, the yellow-eyed fiend is the representative of the CE demons, being that he's the owner of Jephton's soul, who, particularly from his "Tear down creation just to see if you can" line seems to be the CE member of that trio (Ganonron being LE and Haera being NE).

So why is he the one who has to go deal with the LE Tiamat? Shouldn't that be the orange-eyed fiend, who is presumably (through his control of Ganonron and his friendship with the Blue and Sun Devil mascots) the devil of the trio? Seems to me that a lawful deity would want to have her direct subordinate report and take responsibility for what happened.

Just a random thought...

Not everything in OotS has some secret meaning. The Giant does something without thought. Just cause you see some sort of flaw or odd connection to something that happens in the comic doesn't mean the Giant planning something.

[Ragn Charran]

Not everything in OotS has some secret meaning. The Giant does something without thought. Just cause you see some sort of flaw or odd connection to something that happens in the comic doesn't mean the Giant planning something.

What part of "random thought" makes you think I'm seeing some sort of flaw or odd connection or think the Giant is planning anything?

[Berserk Monk]

So why is he the one who has to go deal with the LE Tiamat? Shouldn't that be the orange-eyed fiend, who is presumably (through his control of Ganonron and his friendship with the Blue and Sun Devil mascots) the devil of the trio? Seems to me that a lawful deity would want to have her direct subordinate report and take responsibility for what happened.

Sounds like you're trying to point out a flaw or something else there.

[Ragn Charran]

I'm actually just thinking aloud about something I found interesting to try and stimulate conversation.

[FoE]

Sorry, I was mistaken. I was thinking of Lloth.


Tiamat has always guarded the entry to the second layer or Nine Hells in 3rd Edition, even before she was made a goddess.

Well ... actually, no. That changed with 4E. She now inhabits a realm of complete darkness (I forget the name off the top of my head) along with the serpent god Zehir. She's not in the Nine Hells anymore.

[Morquard]

One theory:
They send the Chaotic one to the phone, that way they can reason later "Oh well, he's chaotic, what he promised her doesn't really count", while if the LE devil would have talked at least he might have felt bount to it.

Tiamat probably didn't care who she roasted as long as it was someone :)

Not sure that was a succubus though. She's kind of dressed like a lawyer or secretary or something, which doesn't exactly sound very chaotic.

[doodthedud]

He answered the phone because it's his 'house'.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0637.html

Y.E.D : "Let us retire to my domain." *opens portal*

His house, his phone, he answers it.

[Bibliomancer]

I think you're underestimating their power. The three are implied to be Archfiends - the epic Timestop they so casually included in the letter to V is a strong indicator, for instance, as is their ability to perform the Soul Splice. The strongest Archfiends are often equal to or even above the power of some gods in D&D, and even lesser ones won't be that far below a god's power. Plus Lee seems to have easily survived Tiamat's apparently breath-weapon-based wrath, which again indicates he's no normal fiend.

Zevox

OTOH, it appears that this breath weapon was transmitted through a phone (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0667.html), and so was rather diminished. Also, if they were archfiends, they wouldn't really have superiors (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html), would they?

[Zevox]

OTOH, it appears that this breath weapon was transmitted through a phone (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0667.html), and so was rather diminished.
Possible, but a complete unknown quantity ultimately.


Also, if they were archfiends, they wouldn't really have superiors (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html), would they?
Sure they would. More powerful Archfiends. At the very least all Archdevils are still below Asmodeus in the hierarchy, and the other Lords of Nine are above Archdevils that don't control one of Hell's layers. For demons it's more questionable, but then again, demons don't generally have any superiors anyway, save those powerful enough to force them into servitude - which, again, could simply mean a more powerful Demon Lord. I'm unfortunately not versed on how Yugoloths work in this regard, though.

Zevox

[Jagos]

Well damn...

It seems the comic was changed. Now it doesn't say Director Lee...

[Zevox]

Well damn...

It seems the comic was changed. Now it doesn't say Director Lee...
:smallconfused: Er, what? The only time one of them was named explicitly as Director Lee, comic 637 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0637.html), still says that when I look at it.

Zevox

[Jagos]

I was actually referring to the one where Tiamat was talking to Yellow (now known as Lee)

[Zevox]

...but he was never named in either of those comics...

Zevox

[Jagos]

That's weird...

I could have sworn the secretary had said "Director Lee...? Blah blah blah..."

But I may have just mistaken it.

[doodthedud]

Their names are Lee, Nero, and Cedrik. it's on their business cards. And The Orange referred to the Yellow as Lee. So now we just need to figure out orange and purple. based on the order they usually stand in and the way the cards are offered (presumably they didnt twist their hands around each other when showing the cards) Purple is Cedrik, Orange is Nero, and Yellow is Lee.

I would say it was the other way around, but apparently yellow is Lee.