Mount and Blade

[Lord Herman]

Does anyone else play this game? I picked it up on Steam yesterday, and I'm hooked. I haven't even begon to fully explore the game yet; so far, I've been pillaging villages and massacring peasants, while performing the occasional service for the Nord king.

I did run into a bit of a problem, though. I came to a Nord noble's aid when he was fighting a losing battle against a Vaegir horde. Together, we butchered the Vaegir, but when the battle was done, I found out I had captured the Vaegir king. And I have no idea what to do with him. Is there a way to ransom him, or maybe turn him over to my king?

Oh, and by the way, I just read an expansion will be coming out this September, which will include multiplayer and shinier graphics. Hooray!

[Recaiden]

I used to, but haven't in a long time. Multiplayer would be a great addition to a game like this. And better graphics couldn't hurt, especially for the world map.

Eventually either a lord of that side will offer to pay a ransom for him or someone on your own side will take them for you.

[Krrth]

Yeah, the king will either escape or be ransomed.

...Of course, his kingdom really doesn't like you anymore....but I'm guessing you knew that.

[Waggy]

This game is awesome on many levels. I'm waiting for the expansion - you get to become leader of your own faction!

Just toss the King into one of your castles he'll evenutally esacep and you won't have to worry about him (or as people have said, ransome him!)

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I played the game out, and then got some sick mods. The mods I play are:

Southern Realms more than triples the amount of factions, and doubles the landmass.
Hundred Years War: only 2 factions, France and England, but an actual map of France.
Age of Gunpowder: 18th century warfare. Pretend you're Richard Sharpe.
The Eagle and the Radiant Cross: Refight the 30 Years War
300: THIS! IS! SPARTAAAA! No campaign, just quick battles and one of those "see how many enemies you can kill without dying" arenas.
and
Roots of Yggdrassil: Vikings. Yarrr. And, totally new map!

[Myatar_Panwar]

You did two things right.

1. Joined the Nords.
2. Beat those Vaegir bastards.

I hate them. In my first game I had almost eradicated all of their territories.

[Fri]

For some unexplainable reason I joined the Rhodoks. What's the fluff on all of the faction? The nords are viking equivalent, right?

[13_CBS]

For some unexplainable reason I joined the Rhodoks. What's the fluff on all of the faction? The nords are viking equivalent, right?

The Rhodoks are based off of a relatively obscure (yet historically important) part of European history: the Swiss Cantons.

FYI, around, oh, 1400-1600, the Swiss had such a powerful infantry force that they were not only able to hand elite European knights their arses but also pretty much carve out their own little kingdom in Europe. The Rhodoks are based off of them.

Edit: As others have said, named prisoners (including kings) will either travel with you as a prisoner or rot in a dungeon. If you're lucky, the prisoner's faction will offer a ransom. If you're not, then you'll have a useless prisoner slowing you down for the rest of the game. You can't sell named prisoners off at slavers, I'm afraid.

Anyone else got any questions? I've played M&B for quite a bit (but not without cheats :smallyuk:) and I used to be a veteran of the official forums, so I have a modicum of knowledge to share. :smallwink:

[Fri]

For a very long time, I thought that my rhodok army was completely useless. I used an army of mercenary cavalry and hodge podge knights from various faction, backed by crossbowmen. But the cost of shock-and-awe blitzkrieg tactic was starting to bankrupt me. Then I realized how to use the my infantry. The rhodokians are ompletely undefeatable defensively. Wall of spear and arrow, baby. Now beating 600 guys with just 100 in castle defense is routine operation now.

[Lord Herman]

I really like the factions of this game; they didn't go for the obvious medieval factions like England or France, but instead went for eastern European/western Asian ones, which are often neglected in medieval-setting games. The fact that the game is made by a Turkish developer might have something to do with that, of course.

This Southern Realms mod sounds interesting. I think I'll try after I've played some more vanilla. What are the new factions?

[Dark Faun]

I currently have the demo and I have a little question for those of you who have the full game.

Is it as dark in the full game as it is in the demo? Even with my screen's brightness to the max, I can't see what's going on. I can't enjoy the game when I see about as much as Old Blind Pete.

[Thanatos 51-50]

I played it quite a bit back when the newest relase was v 6-point-something, back BEFORE you could join a faction, and it was fun.
I was aware that the game was finally completed, and I was at the time upset because I no longer had the game code to get it nor did I have my old computer anymore. (When i purchased the game, it was at 60% price, and I could uprgade versions for free).
As soon as I get my card working, I think I'm going to hit up Steam and download this game for good times.
I've played this game aboard ship before for other Sailors to look at go "Whoa! That game looks cool!"
It's an awesome game.
(For the record, I usually joined the Mongol-analog faction for the horse archery o' doom!)

[13_CBS]

(For the record, I usually joined the Mongol-analog faction for the horse archery o' doom!)

Beware though, on the newer versions: Khergits aren't exactly the best troops for assaulting castles. You may wish to grab a few Nord Huscarls or knights from other factions to be your castle crashers.



Discord;6484434]I currently have the demo and I have a little question for those of you who have the full game.

Is it as dark in the full game as it is in the demo? Even with my screen's brightness to the max, I can't see what's going on. I can't enjoy the game when I see about as much as Old Blind Pete.

The only thing I can suggest is messing around with the gamma settings.[/U]

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

The new factions are crazy!

I don't know many of the real-world equivalents, but you have:

The more tribal cousins of the Rhodoks, the Voroks: Not sure about their units, I think they have lots of fierce infantry though.
The Red Khanate, on the very edge of the map: like the Khergits, but more so. Think they also have some more chinese/japanese troops. I've never really gotten over there more. I usually stick more around the original part of the map, and the islands that they added.
The County of Zendar: City militias, mostly
Um...
The Empire of Geroia
The Empire of Gerinia, I think? (I always get these two missed up. One has a more medieval version of hoplites and other greek troops, one has lots of different citizen-soldiers)
The Kingdom of Alan? (Lots of peasant-type guys. These guys have the land that the Nords get in Native)
Kingdom of Lacontia (Only fought them once, sorry!)
There's a few more in the main landscape. I can't remember them all. The mod adds a total of 9 factions, so actually only ALMOST triples the number of factions. The land is extended in almost all directions, especially towards the sea, to the south, adding a bunch of islands, where the Nords come from, and another continent. Oh yeah, and there's boats too.

Edit: Remembered another! City-state of Harlaushia, past the Vaegirs.

Edit Edit: Jubal, the guy who made the mod, said he's going to double again the size of the map!

[DranWork]

just started playing this game as my flatmate was raving about how awesome it was back in the day. So bought it and loaded it up and wow.. just wow. Possiably the best game ive played when it comes to "first person" (yeah over the shoulder but meh you get what i mean) Medieval games. So much depth and development must have gone into this and the fact that such a small company orignaly layed down the ground work is just awesome. No stupid flare or hype just delivering what they promised. Sure there are a few minor faults with the game (swinging a sword on the charge only hits one person how? AI lacks tactics that make sence aka shield walls) but with such a strong modding community im sure ill find the fixes that i want.

Top game really.

[Eldan]

The Rhodoks are based off of a relatively obscure (yet historically important) part of European history: the Swedish Cantons.

FYI, around, oh, 1400-1600, the Swiss had such a powerful infantry force that they were not only able to hand elite European knights their arses but also pretty much carve out their own little kingdom in Europe. The Rhodoks are based off of them.


Are you sure they are based on the swiss? I mean, the pikemen are mostly fitting, but I'm not aware of switzerland ever making use of large amounts of crossbows. (Also, we never had our own king.)
Also, I'm not completely sure who the swadians are suposed to be based on. Someone mentioned that none of the "famous" medieval nations are in, but they seem pretty generic to me, knights in plate and all.

[Lord Herman]

I'm doing quite well now. I have full plate armour, a heavy charger, and an army of hired blades and Rhodok sharpshooters.

I've been engaging in a most entertaining noble sport; peasant hunting. You ride into a village, kill as many peasants as you can, and then brag about it to your fellow nobles.

One time, a noble offered me roast peasant at a feast. Luckily, he apparently didn't know what a peasant is, because he gave me some kind of bird instead. I'd love to see him at our next peasant hunt, shooting birds instead of peasants. Silly man.

[Eldan]

It's actually quite a common mistake.

I've dug out the game again. Since when I last played it, I had an army of ~120 Khergite lancers and it started to get a little boring, this time I'm goign with an approach suggested by someone else on the forums: only recruit the unique characters.
Well, it's certainly interesting: so far I've only found the weak ones. Therefore, I'm using a merchant caravan guarded by two women in dresses with kitchen knives. I really need to earn enough money to buy them some armour and weapons.

[13_CBS]

Are you sure they are based on the swiss? I mean, the pikemen are mostly fitting, but I'm not aware of switzerland ever making use of large amounts of crossbows. (Also, we never had our own king.)
Also, I'm not completely sure who the swadians are suposed to be based on. Someone mentioned that none of the "famous" medieval nations are in, but they seem pretty generic to me, knights in plate and all.

I'm pretty sure they are...though I guess you could check with the official forums on that one.

AFAIK, the factions are based more on vague stereotypes of various groups of people around the Middle Ages/Early Modern period. Swadians are roughly Western Europe, Vaegirs are roughly Eastern Europe, Rhodoks are roughly Swiss cantons (or something like that), Khergits are roughly Turko-Mongolian, and Nords are roughly Scandinavian. None of them are supposed to be based off of one specific nation, I think (except for maybe the Rhodoks).

[Fri]

they kept bickering though. I'd love to do that, but they'll kill each other when I'm not looking.

[Lord Herman]

Today another bunch of Vaegir peasants learned that it's not a good idea to go live in a thing that rhymes with 'pillage'. I mean, that's just asking for someone to rob you blind and murder your family just for the sake of a bad pun.

[Fri]

you know what? a lets play of mount blade would be fun.

[13_CBS]

Next time you sack a village, try jumping onto one of the low peasant buildings in the area. Since the AI doesn't know how to jump, they won't be able to get to you save by throwing rocks.

Take out your favorite ranged weapon and enjoy your turkey shoot!

[Cristo Meyers]

Today another bunch of Vaegir peasants learned that it's not a good idea to go live in a thing that rhymes with 'pillage'. I mean, that's just asking for someone to rob you blind and murder your family just for the sake of a bad pun.

I was interested in this game when I first saw it at a Best Buy once, passed it up.

I was more interested the last time a thread for this game came up, still didn't get it.

Now I've never been more interested in this game (except for the having to deal with Steam part...), but I'm also so backlogged on games that it'd take the rest of the year to finish them all. Damn you, Herman...:smalltongue:

[13_CBS]

You don't need Steam to buy M&B. (http://taleworlds.net/mb_buy_en.html)

[Shademan]

M&B IS MAH GAME!
Seriously, It is my favorite game!

[Cristo Meyers]

You don't need Steam to buy M&B. (http://taleworlds.net/mb_buy_en.html)

I know, I saw it in a store a while ago, just never saw it again.

[Matthew]

Played this a lot, and bought it at the discount price way back when before it was completed. It still is a bit incomplete, with some aspects looking as though development was halted. I guess that has to do with being picked up by a publisher and the forthcoming expansion. It really is a lot of fun, but I think they should have kept the ability to garrison your castles with henchmen, it kind of sucks that you cannot chop and change between those guys.

In the most recent version I have finally gotten back up to a party of 200+ men, have exterminated the Rhodoks, and the Nords have only a castle or two left. Serving as a loyal vassal of the Vaegir has been fun this time around, though previously my character has worked as a mercenary captain for the Khergits and Swadians (I think he actually told the Khergit Khan where to go after he refused to hand over a castle he had conquered).

My biggest problem with the game is the scale of the battles. I want them to a) use all the men involved at once, and b) involve larger armies or something. The inability to command subsections of your company on the battlefield and choose which ones show up at the start of the battle can also be frustrating, but the expansion looks to be dealing with at least some of this.

I stopped playing mainly because of the scale and frequency of the fights (never ending skirmishes), but also because of the price of cattle. My goodness, some places sell them for several thousand silver per head and others for less than fifty. Annoying.

[Eldan]

you know what? a lets play of mount blade would be fun.

Hmm. I might do that, I have some spare time.

[Swok]

So I just recently got the demo from steam to try this out. I haven't gotten too far into it and mostly have just knocked a couple bands of looters unconscious from horseback to sell to the ransomer. I've also recently discovered the absurd slaughter that a lance will cause. :smalleek:

[13_CBS]

My biggest problem with the game is the scale of the battles. I want them to a) use all the men involved at once, and b) involve larger armies or something. The inability to command subsections of your company on the battlefield and choose which ones show up at the start of the battle can also be frustrating, but the expansion looks to be dealing with at least some of this.


I'm surprised that no one came out with a Battle Size changing mod for the latest versions yet. :smallconfused: They had them for older versions, as I recall.

[Connor Darkdart]

WARNING TO ANYONE CONSIDERING BUYING THIS GAME

Although you might not of checked, the game on steam costs 29 (whatever the hell Steam displays it as for you) while the official site sells it for 7 less! Be warned! I know steam is great and all but...

EDIT: Also, question: Themida seems to think ive cracked it or infected it with a virus, and reinstalling doesn't work. Halp?

[Myatar_Panwar]

Battle charger (mod) lets you have just about as many guys on the field as you want. I think I set it to like 300 or something. Anything more and it starts to get a tad laggy.

[Dark Faun]

I'm playing the Hundred Years War mod and I managed to get the entire country against by siding with Owain Lawgoch. I can't recruit anyone except peasants in the few villages I conquer and mercenaries.

That'll be fun. :smalltongue:

[Connor Darkdart]

If you are considering buyin this, buy it off steam, at the moment it is just 14.99 until the 26th of July! BUY BUY BUY!

[Swordguy]

Battle charger (mod) lets you have just about as many guys on the field as you want. I think I set it to like 300 or something. Anything more and it starts to get a tad laggy.

If you've got a good rig, you can get more. I'm running an i7 with 8 gigs of DDR3 RAM and a 1GB video card. I've got Battle Changer on 500 guys, and I'm getting 40+ fps. Fun times.

I'm about 150 days into my latest character, a captain of the Swadians (I normally go Nord because I so very HATE having to take Nord-held castles). So far, we've wiped out the Khergits (they've got a couple of armies still kicking around, but no castle or cities) and I'm in the middle of a nasty fight with the Rhodoks, and my genius of a King just declared war on the Nords. The same Nords who evidently have 600-man armies stomping around. *facepalm*

I think I'm gonna try the 1257 historical mod next. Anybody tried it?

[Thanatos 51-50]

Thread ressurection time!
Recurrecting this thread because the LP is causing more discussion!
That, and I finally located the activation code I had.

[shadow_archmagi]

I found this game to be ultimately frustrating and tedious. No matter what mods I run, it boils down to three distinct phases:

1. Oh hey look everything kills me very quickly except for the most tiny and insignificant weakling armies that don't drop any good loot. I guess I'll challenge this mangy cur to a duel for the trash can. I have to watch out that he doesn't knock me over, because my 15 pikemen will be defeated by two peasants if they can knock ME down.

2. Hey sweet I'm actually growing in power and can challenge the lesser nobles. Perhaps one day I will be able to attack a castle!

3. OK, my forces have arrived at Castle Ultradoom, where the entire Khergit army is staying. I'll just drop my character behind this large rock and go make and then eat a sandwich and when I come back I'll tell my army to move on to the next small town and capture that.


Phases 1 and 3 are both fairly unsatisfying. Mount And Blade, like World Of Warcraft, was one of those games where I eventually realized I spent more time reading a book to pass the time between interesting bits than the actual interesting bits lasted.

[Recaiden]

Although you might not of checked, the game on steam costs 29 (whatever the hell Steam displays it as for you) while the official site sells it for 7 less!


That much? It was $5 when I got it.


I know steam is great and all

What? What? What?

[WitchSlayer]

Although they aren't effective as having tons of cavalry. I love getting an army of archers and watching the arrows fly while a bunch of infantry attempt to take the hill my army is standing upon.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

I play version 1.011 right now, and it was free. I went to the official website and downloaded it, where does it cost money? Or is there a more updated version that costs money?

[Recaiden]

I play version 1.011 right now, and it was free. I went to the official website and downloaded it, where does it cost money? Or is there a more updated version that costs money?

The free version has a level cap, and I think some other limits.

[Connor Darkdart]

The free version has a level cap, and I think some other limits.

It speaks the truth.

[Kizara]

For all your M & B issues, this is pretty much a must-see for any fan of the game:

Self-moding at its best. (http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/topic,46290.0.html)

Also, trying to play the game on higher/highest difficutly/realism settings makes it very annoying to try to take a castle without losing a huge portion of your army.

[Flickerdart]

Does the Prophecies of Pendor mod (latest version) take an inordinate amount of time to load textures, and then lag randomly for anyone else? Native module works fine.

[Thanatos 51-50]

I don't actually use any mods, sorry.

So - I plan on rebelling against the Khurgits. Any pre-rebellion preperations I should prepare?

[Rustic Dude]

Does the Prophecies of Pendor mod (latest version) take an inordinate amount of time to load textures, and then lag randomly for anyone else? Native module works fine.

Well, it's BIG.


But you should re-download it with the latest patch. It should help.

(Also: it's textures are bigger. Maybe you need to drop your graphics settings a bit.)

[Flickerdart]

Maybe, thanks. I knew it was big, but it's not bigger than the Native, is it?

Also, I notice that M&B (at least Steam's version of it) doesn't have a screencap feature, making me have to paste the screenshots manually into Paint which is annoying. Is there a good screencap program somewhere?

[shadow_archmagi]

Maybe, thanks. I knew it was big, but it's not bigger than the Native, is it?

Also, I notice that M&B (at least Steam's version of it) doesn't have a screencap feature, making me have to paste the screenshots manually into Paint which is annoying. Is there a good screencap program somewhere?

Printscreen will actually create a screenshot and save it to the M&B folder.

At least, that's my experience.

[Flickerdart]

Printscreen will actually create a screenshot and save it to the M&B folder.

At least, that's my experience.
Really? Let me check...

Nope, can't find screenshots anywhere in the directories that M&B occupies, which is \steamapps\common\mount and blade.

[Celesyne]

so I need some advice in this game, i picked up a copy and i spend most of my time captured and constantly losing my troops, i just cant seem to spend very much time in charge of a squad to accomplish anything. Is there some special trick to not getting run down by packs of 50 deserters when you only have 12 guys?

[Kizara]

Some advice:

1) Don't play in the Khergit area. The bandits and deserters there are VERY fast and you can't outrun them and choose your fights, making it difficult to play in.

2) Keep the settings on 'easy' until you get the hang of the combat system (1/4 damage to you, 1/2 damage to your friends). Ramp them to more realistic when you can handle it, as it makes the game more satisfying, but for now keep it managable.

3) The 'best' character background is (forget order) Veteren Warrior, Page at a Nobleman's court, Squire and Personal Revenge and a male character. This gives you the most useful skills and stats, good weapon proficiencies and starting equip. From there, you want to focus on a melee character that uses a combination of a two-handed weapon (I prefer a sword of war, but the case can be made for axes or a swinging polearm like a glaive), a lance and shield and ethier a throwing weapon or a 1-hander and a shield. I personally go for a heavy bastard sword, a 103 speed shield (lighter but much faster to block with), a sword of war and a practice lance (longest lance, and great for 'prisoner mining').

4) Fight looters right off the bat, you don't need to recruit troops but if you want to you can. Read some guides for NPCs on the forums for the game, some are better than others and you need to find a combination that can work for you. For troops, you want:

Melee: Nord Huscarls, even Nord Warriors are great though.

Ranged: Vaegir Marksmen or Rhodock Sharpshooters. Swadian Sharpshooters aren't too bad ethier. The Vaegir's do by far the most DPS, but the Rodock's fare better in melee and are tougher (they make great wall troops).

Horse: Swadian Knights. Vaegir Knights are respectable, but the swadians are flat-out better. In general, you want a good % of your army to be Swadian knights, cause they are the best troops all-told in the game.

Skirmishers: Its a decent idea to have a few Khergit Veteren Horse Archers and Lancers to help round-out your forces and provide some light flanking support for your forces.


That all being said, the Khergits are very annoying to fight as although their top-tier troops aren't as effective, ALL of their guys are mounted. This makes it impossible to out-maneauver them and fights against them very dirty slug-fests; I go out of my way to avoid joining a faction at war with them for this reason.

Do the tutorial if you haven't already, and then just practice 'drive-by-whacking' on some looters. Feel free to use your crossbow a bit, but it gets nearly-useless later when enemies have shields and/or are mounted so don't rely on it very much.

Move up to Sea Raiders and Mountain Bandits (small groups, they are tough if you get in over your head, even on easier settings), both for increased challenge and for good equipment drops.

Oh, and have fun doing quests for Lords, Village Elders and Guild Masters (in cities), but I personally avoid them as boring and often a waste of time, and focus my efforts on the killing and looting (IE more fun and challenging) parts of the game.


Feel free to ask any additional questions you may have.

[Celesyne]

Woohoo, real help!. ok, i've seen this practice lance mentioned a few times, but where do you actually get it? and what skills are actually worth putting points into? they seem kinda vague in the descriptions.

[Kizara]

Woohoo, real help!. ok, i've seen this practice lance mentioned a few times, but where do you actually get it? and what skills are actually worth putting points into? they seem kinda vague in the descriptions.

Like all other equipment in the game, it can be purchased from the weaponsmith in towns. However, what equipment they have available is random and you may have to shop around for a bit. They don't cost much though, I don't remember exactly but its < 500 IIRC.

As for skills, I don't feel like booting up the game just to tab out and tell you, but basically you want to focus on skills that help you in combat, help you be a better general, and that your NPCs can't get for you.

Avoid tracking, healing, persuasion, artitechure, trader, horse archery (I salute anyone who can actually play a horse archer in this game and do even a QUARTER as well as I can as a melee powerhouse, its basically a waste of time once opponents start getting shields, horses and heavy armor), um... and other stuff like that.

From memory, the skills you want:

Power Strike, Iron Flesh, Ride, Trainer, Looting, Weapon Master, Leadership, Prisoner Management (both after you have your personal skills decent, you need to take care of yourself first and then make yourself a better leader for bigger armies), and Inventory Management. Might be others, but that's all that comes to mind.

Skills you can get when you have spare points and feel like it:
Athletics (helps in tourneys, sieges and when your horse gets killed)
Power Throw (if you go for this option, otherwise don't bother)
Shield (ONLY if you have no better avenues for points left and find yourself losing your shield due to damage alot even though you have a good shield).
Wound Treatment (you should have Ymira take care of the medical stuff, but it can be handy to have this for the many times she's out of comission to help her/everyone heal up faster)

If you have any specific skill you want to know about ask, if its not up there its likely cause I forgot about it.


Some additional advice:

- Go to the arena. Not only does it give you some experience and counts towards weapon skill proficiency, but it gives you some great practice at fighting. If you spawn with the bow just exit and restart the match instead of wasting your time. If you become good at it its also a good way to make some money early game.

-Continuing that line, participate in tournaments whenever possible! If you are even somewhat decent at the game you should be able to win nearly every tournament on easy settings. Bet on yourself 100g each time and you make about 3500 from it! Very solid early, and helpful even late in the game!

[Fri]

strangely, I often heard that horse archery is the best. huh.

[Kizara]

strangely, I often heard that horse archery is the best. huh.

Here's the list why it doesn't work:
NOTE: This assumes you can't consistantly pull off headshots against moving targets on horses that have shields, including the random aspect of ranged attacks and the horse penalty that you need Horse Archery 10 to completely negate. Even still, much of the following applies.

Also, I play on nearly-realistic settings: half damage to you and reasonable (but still larger then default) battle sizes, everything else on/max (Good AI, Fast Combat, etc).

1) It takes 2 seperate skills, making you less effective at actually useful things. If it was actually a good combat style though, this would be a mute point. Read on.

2) Bows do much less damage then melee weapons (don't forget Power Blow), and are far harder to land a square blow with. Specifically, you can't do the 'horse nudge and cleave' technique with bows, which is the only consistant way to overcome defending opponents.

3) You can't deal blugeoning damage with a bow, so you can't 'prisoner farm' with a practice lance (denying you an excellent source of income as well as possible recruits).

4) Ok, you are fighting Forest, Mountain, or Sea bandits, you have to contend with the following:

a) The Forest bandits all have bows, they hurt, and the longer you try to circle around the bigger pincushin you become. Your horse is also going down fast. However, if you play melee you are weaving in and out getting them to pull out melee weapons, are better able to see when they are going to fire so you can shield (which you have out) and generally are doing far more damage (dropping them in 1 hit).

b) Mountain bandits have big shields and horses, they also throw for considerable damage and can decently keep up with you. But, if you are really skilled maybe you can outmanuever them and eventually win if you have like spare quivers instead of alternate weapons/shield. This also assumes you don't have any troops, who will otherwise take alot of casualities as you **** around trying to pick off people slowly instead of chopping them to bits.

c) Sea raiders are all on foot, but 4/5 of them have shields, and they throw (and sometimes have a bow) for a LOT of damage. I've been 1-shooted at full hp before by an axe to the head. Sure, MAYBE you can circle far outside and peck their legs off, but not only is this REALLY slow (see: your troops are owned) and ineffectual, but its way harder to accomplish then good melee weaving (at least to me).

5) Ok, now you are fighting an actual army. Their first wave has 20 heavy calvary (swadian knights, lets say). What are you going to do, exactly? Its hard to manueaver with so many horses around you, and the terrain may not be a perfectly flat plane. They all have shields and are moving fast(ish) on horses, its very hard to get a decent hit, if you get tied up in melee and you dont know how to handle yourself you get wasted very quickly. Maybe, best case, your troops break them up and you can dance around and pick off a couple as they do most of the work. This results in you not dieing but its still contributing far less then meeting them in melee.

This isn't even wrost-case, that's Khergits, which amounts to "you get trapped in a sea of horses and get mauled to death, you can't even fire your bow due to melee attack interrupts."

6) Now you are in a siege, almost certinally attacking (I've never even played a defensive siege), I suppose you can try to exchange shots with the dudes on the wall. Its hard, since they hide behind the wall for cover, but I suppose its managable. You likely take quite a few shots yourself for doing this, but I suppose you contribute. Not as much as storming the ladder and dropping dozens and dozens of guys (I often get like 30 kills in sieges with my sword of war and full plate tankiness), but something. You also lost way more troops due to the extended wall exchange and not directly supporting the wall effort, which goes way more poorly without you cleaving dudes.

7) Now you are fighting a 150 man army. Each battle, you will run out of arrows if you intend to kill more then 6 guys. That's assuming you can head-shot reliably, don't miss, and your horse doesn't get killed (happens easily regardless of combat style) forcing you to be a sitting duck as an archer vs heavy cav or groups of heavy infantry.



In summary, the point amounts to: Its way too hard to hit people who can block with shields. Even a head shot takes 2-4 shots to down a helmeted opponent. You are vulnerable when you inevitably HAVE to be in melee. You don't contribute nearly as much or as quickly to the fight as a melee warrior, thus leaving your troops to pick up the slack resulting in higher casualities. You are constrained by ammo, causing you problems in longer fights. You also can't deal blugeoning damage, preventing you from effectiently 'farming' prisoners for ransom and recruits.

The two things you are good at is dealing with lines of poorly-defended infantry (this does come up), but a melee warrior could do that easily enough, although he might take a bit of damage you could avoid; and dealing with skirmishing calvary doing 'wheels', especially the fast Khergits. This is very annoying for the melee warrior with the heavy, slower horse, but he makes up for it by taking out 20-30 guys before the battle even gets to that 'straggler' point.

[Celesyne]

Wow........ my luck must stink, it started me in the Nord area, and i got mobbed by 27 sea raiders before i could get to the training ground...

[Castaras]

Got this game a few weeks ago, loving it. Signed up for the warbands beta, hoping I get in. :smallbiggrin:

[Kizara]

Wow........ my luck must stink, it started me in the Nord area, and i got mobbed by 27 sea raiders before i could get to the training ground...

That's... very odd, since you have like move 6 at the start and sea raiders are maybe move 5. I guess they started right on top of you? Be sure to pay attention to where you are going as you travel, especially early when you really need to pick your fights.

In general, the Nord/Vaergir areas are the best to hang around in, with going to the Swadian area at times. They have good tournaments, good enemies (the Rhodock and Khergit bandit types are much harder to deal with and don't drop as good stuff) and later on make good targets to fight with.

As for what happened to you in that specific game, I suggest you simply exist, delete that character, restart another one with the same stats, and then hope not for such rotten luck.


Castaras: Good luck! I wish I had time to participate in it, I just hope it really picks up the slack that some areas of the game have when it comes out!

[Celesyne]

Is there somewhere i can go to see an upgrade tree for the different troops? always afraid i'll choose the wrong one. I also managed to get my hands on a Jousting lance, blunt damage, with a freakin amazing 200+ reach. And i think im starting to figure out how to deal couched lance damage, im just havin a hard time keepin my units from getting massacred. Also, i see you guys talk about hero.named units a lot, where do you find these folks?

[Thanatos 51-50]

NOTE: I play on easy mode easy.

The only issues I have with Horse Archery are as follows:
It's impossible to get more arrows without clogging up more equipment slots.
For melee capabilties, you're forced to choose between lance/shield, sword/shlied, or sword/lance.

I've been playing as a horse archer since I began playing the game.

EDIT: Protip: The following variables control Horse Archery, and you can muck with them, yourself!


Your bow/arrows. This affects all archery, and so is worth mentioning
Your Archery proficency level, wihch, again, affects all archery. A higher number means a higher amount of damage and a tighter targeting reticule.
Your horse's speed. If your reticule is too big, slow down, it'll tighten. Having your horse at a dead stop eliminates the penalty completely.
Your horse archery level. This reduces your penalty for shooting on the hoof.
Your Power Draw Level. This increases damage and keeps your targetting reticule tighter for longer.


Historically, the secret behind the mongol badassery was twofold - they had one of the, if not the, best light calvary troops before mechanization, who were to a one, all pretty good horse archers
Silk. Silk shirts were lightweight and did a helluva good juob protecting them from arrows.

[Kizara]

NOTE: I play on easy mode easy.

The only issues I have with Horse Archery are as follows:
It's impossible to get more arrows without clogging up more equipment slots.
For melee capabilties, you're forced to choose between lance/shield, sword/shlied, or sword/lance.

I've been playing as a horse archer since I began playing the game.

EDIT: Protip: The following variables control Horse Archery, and you can muck with them, yourself!


Your bow/arrows. This affects all archery, and so is worth mentioning
Your Archery proficency level, wihch, again, affects all archery. A higher number means a higher amount of damage and a tighter targeting reticule.
Your horse's speed. If your reticule is too big, slow down, it'll tighten. Having your horse at a dead stop eliminates the penalty completely.
Your horse archery level. This reduces your penalty for shooting on the hoof.
Your Power Draw Level. This increases damage and keeps your targetting reticule tighter for longer.


Historically, the secret behind the mongol badassery was twofold - they had one of the, if not the, best light calvary troops before mechanization, who were to a one, all pretty good horse archers
Silk. Silk shirts were lightweight and did a helluva good juob protecting them from arrows.

Well historically horse archers are incredibly badass, they also work well in many RPG-based troop games (I ran a horse archer lord in 3.5 with some homebrewed stuff that was very effective) and grand strategy games (so IMBA in M:TW 2).

But yes, playing anything on easy you don't find the problems with stuff that more difficult modes make you aware of. This is true in almost any game.

Furthermore, I bet you that you could accomplish alot more alot faster just grabbing a sword of war and learning how to clip people in the head with it. Just so much more efficient, even on easy. I actually conquered half the map and had nearly maxed equipment doing this before I restarted on harder settings cause it was simply too easy.

Note that if you play with the AI set to poor and the combat to slow speed, then you really can't talk as its almost a different game. It's considerably easier to hit people that don't actively dodge or block, for one thing.


Is there somewhere i can go to see an upgrade tree for the different troops? always afraid i'll choose the wrong one. I also managed to get my hands on a Jousting lance, blunt damage, with a freakin amazing 200+ reach. And i think im starting to figure out how to deal couched lance damage, im just havin a hard time keepin my units from getting massacred. Also, i see you guys talk about hero.named units a lot, where do you find these folks?

I'm certain you can find an upgrade tree on the TaleWorlds forums, but mainly its fairly intuitive. Also, if you screw it up you can always just do it differently next time. There isn't that much trail and error. Also, skirmishers are generally the ranged path, and any melee troops generally go into knights if possible.

As for named units, unless you mean stuff like Rhodock Spearmen (which should be obvious), we/I am talking about the NPCs, that you find in Taverns in the towns. They are like your own little lords.

[Matthew]

Kizara is right in this instance, horse archery and horse archer armies are simply not as effective as the other sorts. They are primarily good for taking on other forces of the same composition. I have played extensively as a Khergit mercenary captain and their troops take much higher casualties than average against the other factions, and cannot be relied upon to hold a castle. Defeating a Khergit army is not very difficult, as you just dismount your cavalry, form up into ranks and wait for them, the exact same tactics as work in Medieval Total War. Bringing them to battle is much harder, as they will typically outpace you on the map, so will only face you when they have a numerical advantage. I have only ever played the game on the hardest difficulty modes, though.

[Kizara]

Kizara is right in this instance, horse archery and horse archer armies are simply not as effective as the other sorts. They are primarily good for taking on other forces of the same composition. I have played extensively as a Khergit mercenary captain and their troops take much higher casualties than average against the other factions, and cannot be relied upon to hold a castle. Defeating a Khergit army is not very difficult, as you just dismount your cavalry, form up into ranks and wait for them, the exact same tactics as work in Medieval Total War. Bringing them to battle is much harder, as they will typically outpace you on the map, so will only face you when they have a numerical advantage. I have only ever played the game on the hardest difficulty modes, though.

So I'm usually wrong? :smallfrown:
:smallwink:

Also, yes I know that tactic works versus Khergits, but I find doing that very boring. I much prefer to get into the heat of things and fight it out, no matter the situation (gets me into trouble with Rhodocks too). Its very annoying doing this against Khergits because not only are they almost universally faster then you, but they have so many horses you get bogged down and can't maneuver or even swing at times. I can beat them this way, but its a far greater hassle and I lose more dudes then I care for.

[Flickerdart]

Archers are only worth a damn when you have a lot of them, and one more bow doesn't do much. There's a reason the game is called Mount & Blade (Mount & Lance doesn't sound as good). The secret to success is a) horse and b) sword. Having good crossbow skill isn't bad if you're not sacrificing anything for it, where you can just loose a bolt and then swap to melee. If you're lancing and want a sword though, then you can't and are better off with throwing weapons which have their own problems.

[Celesyne]

Well, the game crashed on me, losing me my character, right afre i managed to beat one of the lesser lords against me using some tactics for once. He had me a bit out numbered, 34 vs.46 i believe, and about half my force where rhodok x-bowmen. So i stationed my rhodoks on top of a pretty steep hill, and surrounded them with my swandian melee'rs as meatshields. then i rode around with my couple of khergit skirmishers and generally just disrupted things. It was a blast, i lost a couple archers and some swadians, but for abou 5 deaths and 6 wounded i managed to capture 13 of his, and kill the rest, unfortunately the tricky bastage escaped before i could get him. Oh well, time to start ./sigh.
oh, and looting villages is REALLY good money, if a nearby lord doesn't stop by and give you a daily dose of rape.

[Flickerdart]

If the enemy country is besieging one of your castles, it's the perfect time to consult the databook and go loot those lords' villages. Either they break off the siege and your side benefits, or they don't and you get the loots.

[Kizara]

I certinally did my fair share of looting the first time through.

It really does bring in good cash if you don't mind half the world hating you.


However, with the edit that makes prisoners wroth more depending on troop value I no longer find it neccesary.

[Flickerdart]

In Prophecy of Pendor, I made all my money from capturing and ransoming the same king twice. 19 grand a pop, it's great.

[Kizara]

In Prophecy of Pendor, I made all my money from capturing and ransoming the same king twice. 19 grand a pop, it's great.

Is that a mod? If so, is it compatible with the current version of the game? I found that when I went looking all the mods that looked interesting were for much older builds of the game.

[Flickerdart]

Is that a mod? If so, is it compatible with the current version of the game? I found that when I went looking all the mods that looked interesting were for much older builds of the game.
Yeah, I got the latest version of both and it runs fine. Prophecy of Pendor is essentially an entire new world with new factions, defined goals that you can follow if you want, and more difficulty (which also means more better loot from those enemies). The mercenaries are also a lot more diverse, so they're not useless.

[Kizara]

Yeah, I got the latest version of both and it runs fine. Prophecy of Pendor is essentially an entire new world with new factions, defined goals that you can follow if you want, and more difficulty (which also means more better loot from those enemies). The mercenaries are also a lot more diverse, so they're not useless.

Sounds awesome, I'll have to check that out. Thanks.

[Flickerdart]

It also has inordinately long initial loading times, so when it says "Loading textures" you can go grab a snack or something. And it also lags sometimes, but that might be a problem with my old computer.

[Celesyne]

Hehe, Couched lance damage is the most awesomely beautiful thing i have ever seen, now if i could just use it reliably. Also, it let me pick my banner from the start, is that unusual?

[Kizara]

Hehe, Couched lance damage is the most awesomely beautiful thing i have ever seen, now if i could just use it reliably. Also, it let me pick my banner from the start, is that unusual?

You did Impoverished Noble background, right? That is a sub-optimal (but not as bad as some) choice, but it lets you have a banner from the start.

[Flickerdart]

Hehe, started a new game with a 45% difficulty on this new computer. Forgot that it had no scroll wheel, beat 8 looters exclusively by running them over with horse. Then bandits mugged me and I couldn't draw a weapon...I can't find the setting that lets the fingerprint scanner scroll. My old computer did that. Hmph.

Anyway, picking up cheap Khergits and Rhodocks and picking fights with Steppe Bandits power-levels them wonderfully. Half of them die, but the half that don't become more and more awesome, and eventually get good enough to protect the other guys from dying. It still keeps the numbers low enough so that the Bandits attack you. Only problem is that most ground troops just can't keep up, meaning that you just can't level up some of the heroes.

[Thanatos 51-50]

But yes, playing anything on easy you don't find the problems with stuff that more difficult modes make you aware of. This is true in almost any game.

Furthermore, I bet you that you could accomplish alot more alot faster just grabbing a sword of war and learning how to clip people in the head with it. Just so much more efficient, even on easy. I actually conquered half the map and had nearly maxed equipment doing this before I restarted on harder settings cause it was simply too easy.

This is true, but I'm also A) Not that good and B) Too lazy to change anything from the default settings.

Also: Fun is plugging a Barbed Arrow into the Nord King's throat from across the steppes while riding at full gallop.
Charging up to him and hitting him with a sword? Still fun, though not as much.

[Kizara]

This is true, but I'm also A) Not that good and B) Too lazy to change anything from the default settings.

Also: Fun is plugging a Barbed Arrow into the Nord King's throat from across the steppes while riding at full gallop.
Charging up to him and hitting him with a sword? Still fun, though not as much.

I actually once jumped my horse over an infantry/horse line and lanced a king on horseback in the head. Crowning moment of awesome. You can't do that reliably for sure, but you can charge up and lance them most fights.

-You would be 'better' at the game if you followed a more effective combat style.

-You can very easily change the settings even in mid combat, just hit escape and it brings up the options screen. It literally takes 1 minute, including chosing the options you want. If you can play this game at all I can't fathom how this is too much effort for you.

[Kizara]

Hehe, started a new game with a 45% difficulty on this new computer. Forgot that it had no scroll wheel, beat 8 looters exclusively by running them over with horse. Then bandits mugged me and I couldn't draw a weapon...I can't find the setting that lets the fingerprint scanner scroll. My old computer did that. Hmph.

Anyway, picking up cheap Khergits and Rhodocks and picking fights with Steppe Bandits power-levels them wonderfully. Half of them die, but the half that don't become more and more awesome, and eventually get good enough to protect the other guys from dying. It still keeps the numbers low enough so that the Bandits attack you. Only problem is that most ground troops just can't keep up, meaning that you just can't level up some of the heroes.

Just buy the heros horses...

Also, a more effective way of leveling is just fighting sea raiders for better xp and equipment, and generally less losses (they have a much harder time getting to your troops) if you are good at combat yourself.

As for your scrolling issue, I don't understand what you mean... you click the option you want in dialogue sequences, you don't need a scroll wheel. I don't think I even use mine...

[Celesyne]

I'm about ready to give up, I'm on the lowest difficulty, and i spend more time captured and running around trying to re-amass my army than i do actually enjoying the pillage. I dunno what I'm doing wrong, i just keep getting ambushed my 90 people and a lord from an opposing faction ./sigh. It's a wonderfully amazingly enjoyable game for the 5-10 minutes i can keep an army together and pillage before I get ambushed and murdered.

[Kizara]

I'm about ready to give up, I'm on the lowest difficulty, and i spend more time captured and running around trying to re-amass my army than i do actually enjoying the pillage. I dunno what I'm doing wrong, i just keep getting ambushed my 90 people and a lord from an opposing faction ./sigh. It's a wonderfully amazingly enjoyable game for the 5-10 minutes i can keep an army together and pillage before I get ambushed and murdered.

You need to pace yourself better. I understand the push to get strong quickly, but you shouldn't be fighting armies that size unless you can personally kill 70+% of them with no support. At least that's my standard, especially on easy. On easy I can wipe a 100 man army personally with good equip and no horrible luck.

Get good equipment, get good at the combat system, get some leveled troops (you shouldn't HAVE swadian infantry, they are garbage, you should have nords for infantry and swadians for heavy cav and maybe archers, as I detailed earlier; unless of course you just had the footmen that you didn't have upped to man-at-arms yet), and get your NPCs built up a bit.

Basically, the problem is that you are doing it wrong and not that the game is too hard, although I'll admit its not super easy ethier.

[Fri]

I'm about ready to give up, I'm on the lowest difficulty, and i spend more time captured and running around trying to re-amass my army than i do actually enjoying the pillage. I dunno what I'm doing wrong, i just keep getting ambushed my 90 people and a lord from an opposing faction ./sigh. It's a wonderfully amazingly enjoyable game for the 5-10 minutes i can keep an army together and pillage before I get ambushed and murdered.

Don't go to the opposing faction's area yet? Or if you go there, don't go too deep? I spend my low level beating bandits in my faction's area and doing tournament, until I can get a decent number of troop.

[Eldan]

I still like Khergit armies, if just for the fact that it's awesome to have a force with a speed of 7+ on the overland map.

[Kizara]

I still like Khergit armies, if just for the fact that it's awesome to have a force with a speed of 7+ on the overland map.

I know what you mean, it certinally sucks when you have a large balanced force and even with Deshavi with pathfinding 5 you struggle to maintain 5.4 movespeed.

The thing is, its a PAIN IN THE ASS to try to fight with all those horses cluster-fracking you. Unless you just tell your dudes to attack and kinda fart around and maybe get a few kills (a very lame and ineffectual style of playing), you'll have a very hard time manuevering around when you get a horse in the face literally every 5-10 steps.

[Castaras]

Running around stabbing people is fun. :smallbiggrin:

re: good sites for Mount and Blade
I use This site (http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Mount%26Blade/Table_of_Contents) for all my needs. Very handy reference.

My method for starting up... If I start in the Khergit area, I restart. Head to the arena to get me to around level 10 (takes ages without cheating for the xp, but hey, it's a good start). Find myself a few heroes to join me (see the above site for information on who likes who and who gets on with who). Head off to the Nord area. Start recruiting Nords (I like nords :smallbiggrin:). Run around beating people up to get xp. If I find myself attacked when I'm level 10, I can normally from horseback slowly but surely beat anyone except other horseback people (why I stay in the nord area - the nords are pretty easy to beat).

Then once I'm more powerful, I decide which faction I want to join, and then change my troops to be purely that faction (hey, I like it that way. :smallbiggrin:).

One other note: If you can, get peasant women when you free them. They turn into Sword Sisters, which are a very powerful cavalry troop. If you can keep them alive long enough. >.<

[Eldan]

I know what you mean, it certinally sucks when you have a large balanced force and even with Deshavi with pathfinding 5 you struggle to maintain 5.4 movespeed.

The thing is, its a PAIN IN THE ASS to try to fight with all those horses cluster-fracking you. Unless you just tell your dudes to attack and kinda fart around and maybe get a few kills (a very lame and ineffectual style of playing), you'll have a very hard time manuevering around when you get a horse in the face literally every 5-10 steps.

I don't have much of a problem with that, to be honest: my last army contained about 70 khergite lancers and 50 veteran horse archers. I fought with a two-handed sword and a bow from horseback and didn't have that much of a problem. One tactic I like: make the first wave follow me, but don't actually charge the enemy, but ride to their side, turn round, get some distance and then charge. I've often seen enemies totally break formation this way: some remain where they are, others charge, cavalry abandons the rest of the army... and as soon as formation is broken, a large number of lancers can mop up most infantry while I take on any lords while mowing down infantry.

[Flickerdart]

Just buy the heros horses...

Also, a more effective way of leveling is just fighting sea raiders for better xp and equipment, and generally less losses (they have a much harder time getting to your troops) if you are good at combat yourself.

As for your scrolling issue, I don't understand what you mean... you click the option you want in dialogue sequences, you don't need a scroll wheel. I don't think I even use mine...
The only way to draw a weapon is with the scroll wheel.

Regardless, my system had to be restored and that save is lost forever.

[Kizara]

The only way to draw a weapon is with the scroll wheel.

Regardless, my system had to be restored and that save is lost forever.


Oh! True enough, I don't know how I forgot that. I was just playing earlier today even.

[Flickerdart]

Unless you just tell your dudes to attack and kinda fart around and maybe get a few kills (a very lame and ineffectual style of playing), you'll have a very hard time manuevering around when you get a horse in the face literally every 5-10 steps.
You mean that's not how everyone plays? It works for me. :smallbiggrin:

[Jothki]

Watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeFmbNOUxZg).

[Kizara]

Watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeFmbNOUxZg).

Wow, that is awesome.

I wonder what modes there will be beyond just a quick deathmatch for the sake of it.

Can you form groups and have organized fights? Can you have factions that as you win fights you get more reasources and recruit more people?

Do you get gold if you kill people that you can later get more equipment with?


I noticed that archery got a huge buff in damage, precision and usability (zoom). This is cool, as it was needed. I hope its not overdone to turn the game into a shooter though, its supposed to be focused on melee combat.

Overall, I think the deathmatch concept is a good way to have a balanced multiplayer (you choose pre-defined roles, select from an equipment list, etc, so its fair), however I hope that they have a way to have a more dynamic multiplayer that has more aspects of the game (army building, conquest, quests) then this. Also, I hoped with the sequel it would have fleshed out things that were lacking in the original game, not just made a good multiplayer option.

[Celesyne]

After spending hours preying on mountain bandits, luring Khergits to zone walls and generally running amok, i have discovered "via advice" that Swadian knights are gods on horses. Im level 18 now, i have a force of 52, 28 of which are swadian knights, the majority of the rest being swadian sharshoooters and general ground troops i've liberated. I've pledged fealty toSwadia and have my own little fief and can siege and capture forts of 100-125 with my own little army. What irks me now, is after doing a load of quests for the king and getting his disposition into the upper 20s, I still cant seem to get him to grant me a castle after i take it, and im working on my 7th siege.. is it just random?

[Shademan]

After spending hours preying on mountain bandits, luring Khergits to zone walls and generally running amok, i have discovered "via advice" that Swadian knights are gods on horses. Im level 18 now, i have a force of 52, 28 of which are swadian knights, the majority of the rest being swadian sharshoooters and general ground troops i've liberated. I've pledged fealty toSwadia and have my own little fief and can siege and capture forts of 100-125 with my own little army. What irks me now, is after doing a load of quests for the king and getting his disposition into the upper 20s, I still cant seem to get him to grant me a castle after i take it, and im working on my 7th siege.. is it just random?

nah, the swadian king is a major A-hole.
I friggin LIBERATED him from a lord that had kept him prisoner since the beginning of the game and he still wouldnt give me back MY OWN CASTLE after I took it back from the rhodoks!

[shadow_archmagi]

*ahem*

You there! The one arguing that Horse Archery is an inferior skill. What mods are you running and what kind of combat are you most often encountering?

Personally, I've been playing at the high-level "I take castles on a regular basis" type deal. I find that archery is completely the best option.

First off, even if I were some sort of tiny swordsman deity, I can't really see how I might enter combat with 100+ people trying to kill me and not start to take damage, and given that even with high-quality armor, it's entirely possible for a soldier to get a lucky hit in and make your character "stagger" and then while you're busy recoiling from one blow you get hit by two more.

Hell, in siege battles, they have a tendency to fire ARROWS powerful enough to cause a "stagger" effect. (Making me fall off the ladder. SO IRRITATING. STOP FALLING OFF THE LADDER, MAGGIT. And don't talk to me about shields because every single castle seems to be build like a C so that no matter what direction you face while climbing the ladder there are two directions that have free line of sight.)

I don't know what you're talking about "three or four headshots." If it takes two, I'm impressed by the enemy. Yes, enemies standing and holding their shields up are tricky, but they have lots of friends who do no such thing. If you told me you dropped 30 enemy archers before the siege ladder arrived, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Dropping 30 opportunities for the enemy to muss up your invading soldiers is quite brutal. (if a soldier takes a few arrows, he's much easier to kill. That's a terrible disadvantage on the already tricky terrain. I have seen a total of seven Vaegir Knights holding the bottom of the stairs, with 40 archers shooting the invaders on their way down, and the battle ending with losses for the enemy in the hundreds.)


The really, really relevant thing about arrows is that you can do it from the comfort and safety of a football field away. If anyone tries to oppose you, you can zoom away. While it is true that perhaps you don't get as many kills this way, you get far fewer of the "YOUR COMMANDER IS DEAD SO NOW YOUR ONLY OPTION IS TO SURRENDER OR AUTO-RESOLVE" (it should be noted that AUTO RESOLVE IS A BASTARD and for all intents and purposes should be relabelled "Like surrender but with more of your guys dying"

So, basically, if you are not personally there, your army loses. If you are fighting, you're more likely to be KO'd. If you're KO'd, your army loses.

[Kizara]

*ahem*

You there! The one arguing that Horse Archery is an inferior skill. What mods are you running and what kind of combat are you most often encountering?


The Mods I'm running do not effect combat at all, they effect other aspects of the game like quest rewards, cattle movement, army sizes (making them bigger) and castle awards.

I encounter most kinds of combat, generally the kind where I charge with my horse and kill 2-4 guys at a time. Also in sieges, when I go up with my guys and hack away getting generally 30 kills.


Personally, I've been playing at the high-level "I take castles on a regular basis" type deal. I find that archery is completely the best option.

First off, even if I were some sort of tiny swordsman deity, I can't really see how I might enter combat with 100+ people trying to kill me and not start to take damage, and given that even with high-quality armor, it's entirely possible for a soldier to get a lucky hit in and make your character "stagger" and then while you're busy recoiling from one blow you get hit by two more.

Hell, in siege battles, they have a tendency to fire ARROWS powerful enough to cause a "stagger" effect. (Making me fall off the ladder. SO IRRITATING. STOP FALLING OFF THE LADDER, MAGGIT. And don't talk to me about shields because every single castle seems to be build like a C so that no matter what direction you face while climbing the ladder there are two directions that have free line of sight.)

Well in sieges you have your guys directly in front of you and you are hitting over/through them, so you don't take that bad of damage. But yes, its very dangerous and my health is often quite low by the end of it and my shield is busted. I still managed to take castles with around 6 casualties doing it this way. Going up the ladder you simply have your shield up facing the archers, you might get hit but its unlikely. You also use the points you didn't spend in archery skills to have good atheltics. And yes, you can get staggered, but if you are experienced with combat you don't get yourself in a situation where you get combo-beat to death; at wrost suffering 3 hits in succession, but with good armor thats only like 20 damage total, which while sucks isn't DOOM.

Also, for reference, I play on the highest settings except for half damage to self. While I can play with full damage on, I find I have to be so incredible cautious that it makes the game less fun for me, so I play with half damage to have a bit more of a 'heroic' feel. I respect those that play max settings however.


I don't know what you're talking about "three or four headshots." If it takes two, I'm impressed by the enemy. Yes, enemies standing and holding their shields up are tricky, but they have lots of friends who do no such thing. If you told me you dropped 30 enemy archers before the siege ladder arrived, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Dropping 30 opportunities for the enemy to muss up your invading soldiers is quite brutal. (if a soldier takes a few arrows, he's much easier to kill. That's a terrible disadvantage on the already tricky terrain. I have seen a total of seven Vaegir Knights holding the bottom of the stairs, with 40 archers shooting the invaders on their way down, and the battle ending with losses for the enemy in the hundreds.)

This may be an aspect of 'your milage may very', when I tried to play a mounted archer character I didn't last long at it due to being frustrated at the ineffectuality of the combat style. Due to this I didn't have my proficiency at an extremely high level; if you have 300+ proficiency in archery, perhaps it no longer takes 3 direct head shots to take out most heavy opponents, 4 for nord huscarls and lords.

Personally I find something inherently satisfying with dodging people in melee, cliping them in the head and weaving around while shielding at the right times and minimizing damage. I also have a very hard time believing that an archer could have a similar kill total, when I literally drop about 1 guy every 1-2 seconds once I reach their line. Not to mention they focus on me and not my guys, saving alot of casualties.


The really, really relevant thing about arrows is that you can do it from the comfort and safety of a football field away. If anyone tries to oppose you, you can zoom away. While it is true that perhaps you don't get as many kills this way, you get far fewer of the "YOUR COMMANDER IS DEAD SO NOW YOUR ONLY OPTION IS TO SURRENDER OR AUTO-RESOLVE" (it should be noted that AUTO RESOLVE IS A BASTARD and for all intents and purposes should be relabelled "Like surrender but with more of your guys dying"

Yes this is true, unless the enemy has a very strong archery presence (how do you deal with that? I've had a battle against Swadians where he had 25 sharpshooters, and the rest crossbowmen with a couple sprinkled infantry that stayed with the archers. I approached carefully shielded, and dodging with my horse, then basically plowed their line with my heavy charger and started hacking.) you are safer not fighting meaningfully. I would call this cowardice and boring, but its certinally an option. Also, while the auto-resolver has its faults its not as bad as you make out, and you do generally win if you are supposed to, and you don't take massive losses, but you do take more then you should for sure.


So, basically, if you are not personally there, your army loses. If you are fighting, you're more likely to be KO'd. If you're KO'd, your army loses.

Note that with heavy armor (Cuir Boulli and then full plate) the risk of melee is reduced drastically, but even before that with smart play you can accomplish alot. Although in longer or more heated battles you do have to get your guys to attack with you to help take some of the heat and attention off you, but you still accomplish more then you would getting a few ineffectual shots off.

One thing that I will readily admit is that being an effective horse archer takes FAR more skill with the combat engine then being an effective mounted lancer/swordsman, due to its inherent ineffectuality. So I salute you, I'm sure you are quite the skilled marksmen compared to me if you can actually play the game at high/max settings that way and not have your guys/yourself owned at every turn.


EDIT: For those having issue with not having their hard-won land given to them, I strongly suggest going to the link in the first post I made in this thread (on page 2) and scrolling for the mod about such and doing the appropriate edit. Its not really that hard and there's alot of great tweaks there to improve the game.

[Eldan]

As Khergites I have taken castles without any losses, simply by having 100+ archers hanging back, shooting at the enemy until about 50 are dead, retreating for new arrows and doing it again until they give up. It's easy and I rarely take any damage.

[Ethdred]

As Khergites I have taken castles without any losses, simply by having 100+ archers hanging back, shooting at the enemy until about 50 are dead, retreating for new arrows and doing it again until they give up. It's easy and I rarely take any damage.

Doesn't that just mess up your morale with all the retreats?

I agree that archery can be extremely effective (yes you start out rubbish, but there's nothing like defending a castle to get the proficiency up - just position yourself where you can see the ladder, get your eye in and then try not to jog the mouse :smallsmile: ) but eventually you have to get in there and mix it up. Though I have found melee to be extremely dangerous, even with very good armour. I always find myself getting swarmed from all angles so my shield is effectively useless, and there is nowhere to dodge to. So I get taken down very quickly, and I play on minimum damage. So I don't bother even trying melee against more than three or four guys.

[Eldan]

That's why, after trying a few times, I didn't even bother with shields anymore. Bow, 2 quivers and a two-handed sword is my favourite setup, currently.

And yes, retreating more than three or four times destroys morale, but I try to be famous and charismatic enough to make up for it. There's rarely a case where more than three attacks are needed anyway... if you focus on getting enemy archers of the walls first, it gets easy to kill maybe two dozen guys yourself and let your soldiers kill about three dozen as well. Sometimes for a siege such as this, I just pack three quivers and a bow, nothing else. Works surprisingly well.

[Celesyne]

For me, the set-ups that seem to be the most effective are: For a siege, defense or offense, is a bow, quiver, shield, and Sword of war. It sounds dumb, but that shield can still absorb some, if not all, of a bow/x-bow/thrown weapons damage if it hits you from behind. For on field wars, I like my Jousting lance, prisoners ftw!, the shield and a heavy bastard sword.

[Fri]

I tried eldan's tactic on sieging castle and holy apple pies, it work like a charm!

I wonder why I didn't think of it by myself, especially since I always use sharpshooters as the bulk of my force..

[Eldan]

Watch out, though: it's absolutely hopeless to try this on a city. Your men will desert you before a third of the men in it are dead, and some cities can easily have more archers than you.

[Castaras]

Can I just place it on record - I LOVE LANCES.

I LOVE COUCHED DAMAGE.

Killing 48 troops with just you and your lance is WIN.

And SO MUCH FREAKING FUN.

:smallbiggrin: I have just got my new favourite weapon, moreso than the 2he. ^.^

[Ailurus]

The only way to draw a weapon is with the scroll wheel.

Regardless, my system had to be restored and that save is lost forever.

Hmm. Maybe I changed some setting them, but for me pressing the up arrow will cycle between weapons, and the down arrow readies and puts away a shield.

[Kizara]

Watch out, though: it's absolutely hopeless to try this on a city. Your men will desert you before a third of the men in it are dead, and some cities can easily have more archers than you.

I'm curious to what your settings are on, please share.


Also, this is how I take something:

1) Tell your dudes to attack. Your melee dudes will run in first instead of your archers anyways, you don't have to micro it.

2) Run up the ladder. If you are magically first (rarely happens unless you have athletics 5 or higher, and still not that common then), lag behind a bit and let a couple guys in front. Standing 2nd or 3rd, hit over/through them with a sword of war to devasting effect.

3) After you take the wall, move to one side and keep hacking (still staying at or just behind the line). You will take some shots, but your full plate should hold up (I don't try attacking castles before full plate). You down most people in 1 hit, favor the overhead, downwards swing for maximum effect and to hit people coming up stairs or causeways.

4) Try to get it so people run past you to your guys still coming in, so that you can take them on the flanks and back. If you need to, pull out your shield and bastard sword and fight a bit more defensively and carefully.

5) Clear out the archer towers. It gets you out of the main melee for a moment so you don't take more damage, and you get rid of some pesky archers. Don't try to cross the melee line to do this, just clear the ones near you and then push for the courtyard. Sometimes I'll even drop down to behind the melee line and clear it fast in a pincher attack, and then have my guys help me with their next wave before it pinchers ME.

6) Now, if you have done this well you should be at the courtyard, and the tricky part starts. You want to advance quickly, but you need to keep by your guys to avoid getting swarmed. Try to save your shield for archers, because its probably close to breaking by now and you can't parry arrows. Push forward, but make SURE that you don't fall here. Even if you live with 5 hp (with the first aid bonus to give you like 20-30 back) you can win the 2 little fights afterwards.

7) Ideally, you want to take their spawn point and just camp them. Don't sit in the middle so you get insta-swarmed, but do sit right beside it so you can quickly down guys as they come, and then take out ones that are occupied with your dudes in melee.

8) Now that that's over with, the next two fights are cake. Just fight smart and you should be able to down the small bunch of guys with no issue at all. If you can fight in the arena you can win here easily, especially as you often get your NPCs or some top-tier guys spawning with you who are a great aid.

Also, I'll mention that I think this is alot more exciting, fun and challenging then archer sieges, although I can see how that works. Mind you, my way can take cities too.

EDIT: I need to play a defensive siege sometime. Whenever someone tries to siege my place I ethier a) abandon it as hopeless cause they outnumber me like 10:1 or b) bait smaller groups to break off, take them down, return to my place to heal up as needed, repeat until not enough are around to continue the siege. Next time I think I'll do a bit of whittling as above but let them attack and have fun chopping peeps at my wall.




For me, the set-ups that seem to be the most effective are: For a siege, defense or offense, is a bow, quiver, shield, and Sword of war. It sounds dumb, but that shield can still absorb some, if not all, of a bow/x-bow/thrown weapons damage if it hits you from behind. For on field wars, I like my Jousting lance, prisoners ftw!, the shield and a heavy bastard sword.

My first character, back when I was playing on easy settings still, used (not including quality):

Slot 1: Heavy Lance (didn't know about the jousting lance, but said lance is unquestionably better)

Slot 2: Reinforced Heavy Heater Shield (gives 60 coverage with good durability, but lately I find its reaction time too slow)

Slot 3: Sword of War (cause its bloody rape)

Slot 4: Javelins (for some ranged ability)

Now, I had fun with this and did very well, but it doesn't work so well at higher settings when you need to intelligently use your shield to not get dropped.


My current character (and preferred setup) uses:

Slot 1: Balanced Jousting lance (I'm pretty sure you can't even get a masterwork lance, but I'm always on the look-out regardless :P)

Slot 2: Reinforced Round Calvary Shield (speed 103, coverage 50, not the best durability ever but it holds up decently)

Slot 3: Tempered Heavy Bastard Sword (I have it here cause most often I need to switch to sword-and-broad directly from lance. Its tempered cause I haven't come across a masterwork one yet)

Slot 4: Masterwork Sword of War (ownage stick basically, I pull this out when I have the advantage and don't need to worry about blocking so much)

Although I wish I could have a spot for the thrown weapons again, I need the 1-handed sword to use with the shield because at higher setting you NEED to use your shield well or you take WAY too much damage.

[Eldan]

I'm curious to what your settings are on, please share.

I play on maximum difficulty, i.e. all settings on hardest: good AI, maximum damage, fast combat.

[Fri]

I thought castle defense is the easiest? I regularly beat 1:6 odds. Even recently, I was just patrolling around with newbie troops, since I just left my veterans in my newest castle, and I accidentally stumbled into a friendly castle being pummeled with about 1:6 odds. I entered the battle, forgetting that I only got newbie troops, and not even in full troop number. So I shrugged and thought that I was going to lose that one. But we managed to defend the castle, eventhough I kept thinking that this battle is hopeless, and that next wave of enemy on the horizon will be our last. I survived with like, 1 hp. I scram out of there at the first chance, just as more enemy troop coming. The castle was conquered in the end though, but that's because I'm not there to defend it. If I got my usual battle prepared troop, I know it'll be a walk in the park.

[Ahp77]

I really wish I had higher Charisma and Leadership right now. I think my character has only the capacity for 50 men. It sucks when you see the other vassals of your nation and one of the enemy nations with 100+ men usually. I put all but four of my men into spearmen and crossbowmen (because I can only recruit Rhodok troops easily).

Now, I'm only playing on 33% difficulty, but I found a skirmish tactic that usually works. I take my horse and charge the enemy from the side. Usually, the enemy is still in 1-2 lines at that time, so I trample them and start using the best one-handed weapon I could find at the last marketplace to hack at them in the process. By the time my infantry is there, half of the enemy troops are dead or KOed (thanks to the cavalry) and the rest end up slaughtered in the next two minutes. I can get away with only one or two hits by the end of my battle.

This usually doesn't work as well against sieges (no horses there) or other armies (they have cavalry, too) but works well on most bandits I encounter.

[Matthew]

So I'm usually wrong? :smallfrown:
:smallwink:

Heh, heh; not quite what I meant.



Also, yes I know that tactic works versus Khergits, but I find doing that very boring. I much prefer to get into the heat of things and fight it out, no matter the situation (gets me into trouble with Rhodocks too). Its very annoying doing this against Khergits because not only are they almost universally faster then you, but they have so many horses you get bogged down and can't manoeuvre or even swing at times. I can beat them this way, but its a far greater hassle and I lose more dudes then I care for.

Yeah, they are very annoying to fight. Best thing to do is develop a horse archer army of your own and make sure you outnumber any Khergit force you engage. At least you get to participate in that event, rather than hiding away for fear your character will be knocked out and have to auto resolve the battle. Make sure you and your party are on a courser when doing that, if you want to catch the enemy on the battlefield.

I am currently campaigning in the Khergit lands, having wiped out the Rhodoks and almost wiping out the Nords. I let the latter hold onto one last castle so that I would be awarded a Khergit city (wiping out the Nords would have led to half a dozen landless nobles joining our faction. Currently I have two armies in play, one made up of heavy troops for storming strongholds and the other made up of Lancers and Veteran Horse Archers for pursuing enemy forces. Paying for all these troops is becoming quite a strain, so I am probably going to have to build up a war chest before mounting another significant campaign.

[nosignal]

What's the best way to take a town (the ones with 300+ garrisoned troops usually)?

As marshal of the Khergits, I'm lucky if I get even two lords to join me when I summon them (I should probably suck up to them more), so I'm left with about 90+ Rhodok Sharpshooters to take the town with. I tend to use them with some Huscarls for storming the castle at the end.

Are they the ideal troop to use?

[toasty]

So... any good mods for this game? :D

Or, perhaps I should say: Where are the good mods for this game? Specifically ones that would perhaps incorporate fantasy and/or more modern technology. Vanilla is amazing, but I think some rifle/magic would fun. :smallcool:

Also: I hope this doesn't count as threadomancy... I'm not sure.

[Ethdred]

What's the best way to take a town (the ones with 300+ garrisoned troops usually)?

As marshal of the Khergits, I'm lucky if I get even two lords to join me when I summon them (I should probably suck up to them more), so I'm left with about 90+ Rhodok Sharpshooters to take the town with. I tend to use them with some Huscarls for storming the castle at the end.

Are they the ideal troop to use?

I don't tend to go for using missile troops in my own attacks - except for my sniping. I just load up on top echelon troops of any race. When I started I had Swadian and Vaegir Knights, because I was going for an all mounted force. They seemed to hold their own pretty well. Everyone says that Huscarls are about the best infantry, but I've never used them. Then again I concentrated on raising my army size, so I'd have 150 or so troops of my own (all fully upgraded) which makes any fight pretty simple at the difficulty levels I play at!

[nosignal]

Yep, I switched to using an all infantry force while sieging and it worked a treat.

I also notice that no matter how many troops are actually garrisoned in a castle, the most that you actually get to fight, without retreating or getting knocked out, is around 300. If you win that battle, plus the subsequent ones in the streets, throne room etc, the remaining troops are automatically captured as prisoners. Is that correct?

Same thing goes for defending a castle, except the invading force can just decide to wait for a few days before sieging again.

[Ethdred]

Yep, I switched to using an all infantry force while sieging and it worked a treat.

I also notice that no matter how many troops are actually garrisoned in a castle, the most that you actually get to fight, without retreating or getting knocked out, is around 300. If you win that battle, plus the subsequent ones in the streets, throne room etc, the remaining troops are automatically captured as prisoners. Is that correct?

Same thing goes for defending a castle, except the invading force can just decide to wait for a few days before sieging again.

I don't know the exact numbers, but yeah, you don't have to kill every last one of them. I get annoyed by this because it seems I always have a full prisoner list when I take one of these castles! But it can be a way to get a load of really high quality prisoners.

Defending castles can be a pain, because of the lack of a 'win' when you defeat the assault, but they are a fab way to boost your archery skills.

Am annoyed at the moment - have hurt my left wrist somehow, so can't play M&B - need that hand to move myself in combat! So it's back to GalCiv

[Brainfart]

So... any good mods for this game? :D

Or, perhaps I should say: Where are the good mods for this game? Specifically ones that would perhaps incorporate fantasy and/or more modern technology. Vanilla is amazing, but I think some rifle/magic would fun. :smallcool:

Also: I hope this doesn't count as threadomancy... I'm not sure.

I'd recommend The Eagle and the Radiant Cross.

Many of the mods are utter ****e, since they're simple reskins of Native with a few scripts tacked on. Others...well, let's just say the mod authors are the sort who think 3.5 is balanced. Occasionally you get mods that combine both. Erp.

Out of curiosity, how many people have signed up for the Warband beta?

[Maelstrom]

Where do I sign up (for the beta)?

[warty goblin]

I'd recommend The Eagle and the Radiant Cross.

Many of the mods are utter ****e, since they're simple reskins of Native with a few scripts tacked on. Others...well, let's just say the mod authors are the sort who think 3.5 is balanced. Occasionally you get mods that combine both. Erp.

Out of curiosity, how many people have signed up for the Warband beta?

...the problem with the second sort of mod is that they think 3.5 is balanced and that's exactly what's wrong with it. Still probably not as bad as the Oblivion mod community though. About half of those seem to be devoted to trying outdo each other in making all the women in the game look like ex-prostitutes dismissed for appearing too slutty*. Another half thinks the game is so much better if your equipment gives you superpowers. The overlap between these is truly, truly terrifying.


*In an effort to promote gender equality, I should also mention the valuable work of those modders dedicated to giving all the men 'equipment' the size of a dock crane.

I've not been following M&B much of late. Does Warband offer anything besides multiplayer? I'm not terribly interested in that idea, but some more singleplayer goodies could get me excited.

[Brainfart]

I forget most of the feature list, but it's got some improved diplomacy options and greatly improved graphics. There's a few threads floating around on the official forums with complete feature lists.

Anyway, to sign up for the beta, just drop by the forums (TaleWorlds, not Paradox). There's a link in the announcements bar in the top left.

[EleventhHour]

I've been using a version of Eldan's in the demo, but without the retreats...
It's like a Kizara/Eldan mix, but I'm just going to call it the Spiked 11.
I do play on low difficulties as a note. Because I'm not great at it, yet.


1.) Line up archers on one side of the ramp (I only ever get ramps, so...)
2.) Archers shoot at enemy archers. Move your's up as the ramp moves.
3.) The ramp hits. Your infantry starts to charge. Normally by this point your archers are almost out of arrows.
4.) Order the Infantry/Archers to charge. This conserves thier few arrows.
5.) Try to keep somewhere near the front of the charge.
6.) Hit a few of the defending infantry, who will be mobbed on the wall right in front of the ramp.
7.) Let the combat mill, move back as much as possible.
8.) Drop off the side of the ramp, and order the archers to follow you.
9.) Order the infantry to the bottom of the ramp.
10.) Normally, (7/10 times for me so far), most of the wall-mob will chase the infantry down the ramp, toward your waiting archers. (I have a preference for Crossbowmen.)
11.) Order infantry to charge just when the enemy is about 3 steps from the archers.
12.) Mob back up the ramp, have your archers stand on a wall facing thier spawn.
13.) Wait.
14.) Soon as your infantry are in thier 'spawn area', join them.
15.) Fighting...
16.) Fighting...
17.) Order archers to charge.
18.) More fighting...
19.) Finish.
20.) Group of casualties. :smalltongue:


Or in the field, I love meeting all Calvary forces.


1.) Stand on a hill.
2.) Order the archers to stand in front.
3.) Infantry higher up, behind them. (Swadian is best for this, because thier Militia & most everyone higher (in the combat tree, not crossbow tree) that isn't mounted, has a crossbow.)
4.) Calvary off to the left/right. (Your choice. I like left, because the sword swing on the right hand side is better.)
5.) Wait for enemy calvary.
6.) Join shooting at them.
7.) Shoot some more.
8.) Wait until thier about 3 seconds from hitting your archers. (They center in on your archers, yay making it easier!)
9.) Order Infantry charge.
10.) Order Calvary charge. (With you.)
11.) Watch enemy get bogged down in infantry, and the random ones that split off chased by your calvary.
12.) Pull archers out of meele, and onto the top of the hill.
13.) Watch more shooting/calvary chase circles.
14.) Victory.

[Shademan]

I FINALLY got my new computer and the first thing I did was installing M&B :D
By the gods its gonna feel great to play it again!
...
if vista can get its head outta its turkey (other word for "donkey") and let me edit these cursed files so that the Leadership skill is of any use...

and yeah, I signed up for beta :smallbiggrin: