Haplo and the Death Gate

[Randomman413]

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=517163
A link to the WotC version of this thread. And yes. I am Vadin. For those of you who dont want to waste your time reading all of it, heres the jist of it-
The magic in the death gate cycle (when not rune magic drawn onto stuff) its very sponaneous and versatile. Also, instead of giving them spells, I wanted them to have magic that reflected that. So I want to use magic from ars magica. paste time!

Your score in any given Technique or Form is equivalent to the amount of skill points you have in it.

Techniques
Creo (Cr) “I create”
This Art allows you to produce objects from nothing. It
turns dreams into reality. When using a Creo spell, you enter
a momentary state of transcendent meditation and contact
the realm of Forms, in which all the objects that ever were
and ever could be exist as perfect ideas. Your magic finds the
proper Form and impresses it on the real world, creating an
expression of it. Objects created this way are closer to the
world of Forms than are normal objects, so they are always
perfect and flawless. You can also
use the Art of Creo to perfect
things that have deteriorated
from their ideal nature, such as
to heal a broken arm or to mend
a broken vase.
Intéllego (In) “I perceive”
Intéllego is the Art of perception. All things in the world are connected to each other, and Intéllego allows magi the ability to see, read, and learn from these connections.
Muto (Mu) “I transform”
This is the Art of transformation and transmutation.
Through this Art, magi can direct and control the essential
mechanisms of change itself. A transformation is easiest
when there is a strong connection between the original
object and that resulting from the transformation: for example,
it is relatively easy to turn a leaf into an apple. However,
turning a leaf (living, flexible, and vegetable) into a sword
(inert, unyielding, and mineral) is quite difficult.
Perdo (Pe) “I destroy”
The one trait held in common by all objects and creatures
in the temporal world is that some day, inevitably, they
will cease to exist. The magus who understands the Art of
Perdo knows this, and uses magic to control the universal
process whereby things are destroyed. Aging, disease, decay,
and dissolution are all properties inherent to objects and living
things and can be drawn out through this Art.
Rego (Re) “I control”
The Art of Rego allows a magus to regulate matter or
compel the actions of living things. One kind of Rego spell
might lift someone into the air, and another might make a
person act a certain way.
Forms
Animál (An) “animal”
Animál concerns animals of all kinds, from the fish of the sea to the birds of the air. Animál spells cannot affect people, for they have souls whereas animals do not.
Aquam (Aq) “water”
Aquam concerns all manner of liquids. Through this Art, one
gains access to the might of a roaring flood and the gentleness of a clear pool.
Auram (Au) “air”
Auram is the Art of air, wind, and weather. True flight is only possible through this Art.
Corpus (Co) “body”
Corpus is the Art of humans and humanlike bodies. It governs the intricate interactions that occur in those bodies with souls, as well as those that once had souls.
Herbam (He) “plant”
This Form concerns plants and trees. This includes
plant matter of all types, including that which is no longer
alive—like dead wood and linens.
Ignem (Ig) “fire”
This Form concerns fire, heat, and light. Fire is the most lifelike of the four elements: it moves, it devours, and it grows. Also, just as a living thing, it can be killed by the other three elements—smothered by earth, quenched by water, or blown apart by wind. Fire’s position midway between inert matter and living being gives it the advantages of both.
Imáginem (Im) “image”
This Form concerns illusions and phantasms. It affects only the senses and can never affect matter. Masters of this Art have learned to separate the impressions a thing leaves on the senses from the thing itself, and many of them likewise become separated from what those around them see as reality.
Mentem (Me) “mind”
This Form concerns minds, thoughts, and spirits. It comes as close as magic can to affecting souls. Through this Art, magi manipulate what they call the body of the soul: memories, thoughts, and emotions. They can also affect the “bodies” of noncorporeal beings, such as ghosts, as these are maintained in the physical world directly by a spirit’s will.
Terram (Te) “earth”
This Form concerns solids, especially earth and stone. Indeed, Terram affects the very foundation of the world. Although Terram magic is mighty, the earth proves resistant to manipulation. Just as stone is heavy and hard to lift, it is inert and hard to change, even through magic.
Vim (Vi) “power”
This Form concerns raw magical power. All the Arts rely on the raw energy and potential of magic, but this Art refines the use of magic itself, allowing magi to assume even greater control of their spells. Vim also affects demons, which are innately magical creatures. Dealing with demons, however, is dangerous because of the risk of corruption.
END OF PASTE! And if youd didn't read the things above this, you really might want to.
You can create spells to fit a nearly unlimited range of situations, because you decide what effect to attempt and then invent a spell on the spur of the moment to achieve that effect. To determine the results of a spell, you first determine the Technique and Form that are appropriate for the feat being attempted. Then, you decide if you wish to Fatigueyourself or spend vis in order to increase the power of the spell. If you do not Fatigue yourself, you roll either a D20. Once you have made those determinations, roll the die, add the appropriate Technique and Form, your Intelligence, and Armor Check penalty. Divide this total by two if you elected to Fatigue yourself, and divide it by five if you did not. If you spent any vis on the spell, add the amount you spent to the final result. The final result is the level of the spell that you have cast. The amount of vis you have is equal to the power points of a psion equal to your level. They are regenerated after 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep or meditation.

Duration-It really depends. A movement spell will just move something, so its insantaneous. An intellego spell will last (99% of the time) for 24 hours (or 1 day). Perdo spell and muto spells are also instant. Creo spells that make simple objects or sudden effects are also instant and permanent, but a creo spell that makes something complicated (like an animal) will begin to fail after roughly 1 hour/caster level.
Damage-On a perdo spell (the ones that generally cause damage), every 5 levels past 10 cause 1D6 damage to whatever the form youre using is. a level 20 perdo corpus spell, for example, would do 3D6 damage to a person, and probably remove his hair (cause that'd be cool). Other spells, like poisons made from a muto or creo aquam spell are between you and your gm. creo ignem-create fire- standard catching on fire, plus an additional die of damage for the first round on fire for every 10 levels of the spell.
Saving throws-its INT based casting so...10+casters INT mod.+1/10 spell level but pretty much only against intellego spells and the mirage spells.
Spell resistence-I have no idea.
Area-Better check=bigger space, but for spells that aren't over level, like, 40, just assume it effects 1 being or a 5 foot area.
Other stuff-I'm not too sure about it.

And now, I need a little help. The other stuff. And all...yeah. Input would be great. A Patryn/Sartan base class!

[MrNexx]

A) All the stuff you pasted is copyrighted. You should probably remove it.
B) I think Ars magica magic would be difficult to manage in D&D, because of its breadth. However, you might fix it by giving wizards skill points which they can spend on the techniques and forms. At 1st level, like all skill points, it's quadrupled, meaning you can have some reasonably skilled wizards out the gate.

To convert it to d20, I would make spells have levels similar to the Ars Magica levels. If you know the spell, it's Technique + Form + Intelligence + d20. You have to equal or exceed the level of the spell to cast it. For Spontaneous Magic, the total would be Technique + Form + Intelligence, and divide the whole by 5 (or 2, if you want to take XdY subdual damage in "effort"). Weaker, but more flexibile.

[Thrune]

I feel that D&D doesn't fit the Death Gate Sequence. If I ever played in that, I'd use GURPS.

[Prince_Azar]

*click*

saved ;D

[Randomman413]

xdy? explain!
and, if this isn't something that isn't able to be exchanged freely between people online, why is it free at rpgnow.com? (or was it drivethrurpg?)
if it can be given away online, im pretty sure a slightly modified exceprt is perfectly fine.
And the magic is in skills (techs and forms are skills), but i didn't want to give these to a wizard because...well...that'd be a bit powerful...
METAMAGICKED GIANT FIREBALL!(LAST HIGH-LEVEL SPELL!)
I ROLLED A 20 FOR CREO IGNEM! WOOOO! I WIN!
techs and forms can easily duplicate many spell effects, but they generally won't be as powerful. so giving these to a wizard...well...it might get ugly. REAL ugly.

[SpiderBrigade]

I'm pretty sure he meant giving these to wizards instead of their spells...

[The Glyphstone]

I was trying to build an alternate magic system based off of "words" a little while ago, I'll definitely save this for inspiration.

[MrNexx]

xdy? explain!

XdY is a common way of explaining dice variables... X number of dice with Y sides each.


and, if this isn't something that isn't able to be exchanged freely between people online, why is it free at rpgnow.com? (or was it drivethrurpg?)

Simply because it is free does not mean they have relinquished copyright to it. They're allowing their old edition to be purchased free (as opposed to given away) to promote an awareness of the game, and enthusiasm for their current game, Ars Magica 5th Edition, which uses many of the same concepts.



And the magic is in skills (techs and forms are skills), but i didn't want to give these to a wizard because...well...that'd be a bit powerful...
METAMAGICKED GIANT FIREBALL!(LAST HIGH-LEVEL SPELL!)
I ROLLED A 20 FOR CREO IGNEM! WOOOO! I WIN!
techs and forms can easily duplicate many spell effects, but they generally won't be as powerful. so giving these to a wizard...well...it might get ugly. REAL ugly.

That's why you stay with Ars Magica spell levels, which are a lot less forgiving.

Let's say I want to hit a group of people with fire for 15 damage. By the 4th edition guidelines, the base level of the spell is going to be 15. However, going from target Small to Group is two magnitudes, or 10 levels. This means doing 15 damage to a group is going to be a DC 25 spell... while your 1st level wizard with maxxed out Creo (4) and Ignem (4) and Intelligence (4) will be able to pull it off as a spell he knows (his total will be 12, so he'll need a 13 to succeed; it's doable, especially if he's taken a Skill Focus in Ignem), but he'll be incapable of it as a spell he's just making up (since his total will be 6 + 1-10, and that will cost him some subdual damage).

For subudal damage for spontaneous spells, I would say 1d4 per 5 DC of the spell; that may sound high, but there's a lot of magic you can do by the Ars Magica system with a level 5 or under, and the D&D system is a bit more forgiving.

[Randomman413]

BAB Fort Ref Will Abilities
1. +0 +0 +0 +2 Fluid Magic, Heart Rune, Level 1 Body Rune
2. +1 +0 +0 +3 -----
3. +1 +1 +1 +3 -----
4. +2 +1 +1 +4 Level 1 Body Rune
5. +2 +1 +1 +4 -----
6. +3 +2 +2 +5 -----
7. +3 +2 +2 +5 Level 2 Body Rune
8. +4 +2 +2 +6 -----
9. +4 +3 +3 +6 -----
10.+5 +3 +3 +7 Level 2 Body Rune
11.+5 +3 +3 +7 -----
12.+6 +4 +4 +8 -----
13.+6 +4 +4 +8 Level 3 Body Rune
14.+7 +4 +4 +9 -----
15.+7 +5 +5 +9 -----
16.+8 +5 +5 +10 Level 3 Body Rune
17.+8 +5 +5 +10 -----
18.+9 +6 +6 +11 -----
19.+9 +6 +6 +11 Level 4 Body Rune
20.+10 +6 +6 +12 -----

Fluid Magic: You can create spells to fit a nearly unlimited range of situations, because you decide what effect to attempt and then invent a spell on the spur of the moment to achieve that effect. To determine the results of a spell, you first determine the Technique and Form that are appropriate for the feat being attempted. Then, you decide if you wish to Fatigue yourself or spend vis in order to increase the power of the spell. If you do not Fatigue yourself, you roll a D20. Once you have made those determinations, roll the die, add the appropriate Technique and Form, your Intelligence, and Armor Check penalty. Divide this total by two if you elected to Fatigue yourself, and divide it by five if you did not. If you spend any vis on the spell, add the amount you spent to the final result. The final result is the level of the spell that you have cast. The amount of vis you have is equal to the power points of a Psion equal to your level. They are regenerated after 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep or meditation. Your score in any given Technique or Form is equivalent to the amount of skill points you have in it.

Techniques
Creo (Cr) “I create”
This Art allows you to produce objects from nothing. It turns dreams into reality. When using a Creo spell, you enter a momentary state of transcendent meditation and contact the realm of Forms, in which all the objects that ever were and ever could be exist as perfect ideas. Your magic finds the proper Form and impresses it on the real world, creating an expression of it. Objects created this way are closer to the world of Forms than are normal objects, so they are always perfect and flawless. You can also use the Art of Creo to perfect things that have deteriorated from their ideal nature, such as to heal a broken arm or to mend a broken vase.
Intéllego (In) “I perceive”
Intéllego is the Art of perception. All things in the world are connected to each other, and Intéllego allows magi the ability to see, read, and learn from these connections.
Muto (Mu) “I transform”
This is the Art of transformation and transmutation. Through this Art, magi can direct and control the essential mechanisms of change itself. A transformation is easiest when there is a strong connection between the original object and that resulting from the transformation: for example, it is relatively easy to turn a leaf into an apple. However, turning a leaf (living, flexible, and vegetable) into a sword (inert, unyielding, and mineral) is quite difficult.
Perdo (Pe) “I destroy”
The one trait held in common by all objects and creatures in the temporal world is that some day, inevitably, they will cease to exist. The magus who understands the Art of Perdo knows this, and uses magic to control the universal process whereby things are destroyed. Aging, disease, decay, and dissolution are all properties inherent to objects and living things and can be drawn out through this Art.
Rego (Re) “I control”
The Art of Rego allows a magus to regulate matter or compel the actions of living things. One kind of Rego spell might lift someone into the air, and another might make a person act a certain way.
Forms
Animál (An) “animal”
Animál concerns animals of all kinds, from the fish of the sea to the birds of the air. Animál spells cannot affect people, for they have souls whereas animals do not.
Aquam (Aq) “water”
Aquam concerns all manner of liquids. Through this Art, one gains access to the might of a roaring flood and the gentleness of a clear pool.
Auram (Au) “air”
Auram is the Art of air, wind, and weather. True flight is only possible through this Art.
Corpus (Co) “body”
Corpus is the Art of humans and humanlike bodies. It governs the intricate interactions that occur in those bodies with souls, as well as those that once had souls.
Herbam (He) “plant”
This Form concerns plants and trees. This includes plant matter of all types, including that which is no longer alive—like dead wood and linens.
Ignem (Ig) “fire”
This Form concerns fire, heat, and light. Fire is the most lifelike of the four elements: it moves, it devours, and it grows. Also, just as a living thing, it can be killed by the other three elements—smothered by earth, quenched by water, or blown apart by wind. Fire’s position midway between inert matter and living being gives it the advantages of both.
Imáginem (Im) “image”
This Form concerns illusions and phantasms. It affects only the senses and can never affect matter. Masters of this Art have learned to separate the impressions a thing leaves on the senses from the thing itself, and many of them likewise become separated from what those around them see as reality.
Mentem (Me) “mind”
This Form concerns minds, thoughts, and spirits. It comes as close as magic can to affecting souls. Through this Art, magi manipulate what they call the body of the soul: memories, thoughts, and emotions. They can also affect the “bodies” of noncorporeal beings, such as ghosts, as these are maintained in the physical world directly by a spirit’s will.
Terram (Te) “earth”
This Form concerns solids, especially earth and stone. Indeed, Terram affects the very foundation of the world. Although Terram magic is mighty, the earth proves resistant to manipulation. Just as stone is heavy and hard to lift, it is inert and hard to change, even through magic.
Vim (Vi) “power”
This Form concerns raw magical power. All the Arts rely on the raw energy and potential of magic, but this Art refines the use of magic itself, allowing magi to assume even greater control of their spells. Vim also affects demons, which are innately magical creatures. Dealing with demons, however, is dangerous because of the risk of corruption.

Heart Rune: A runemage also has a Heart Rune, which provides +2 to a technique or form, or +4 to a certain combination of technique and form. The animal form may be granted +6 if only a single animal is chosen to gain the bonus against. If the Heart Rune is seriously damage, the mage must make a DC 20 Fortitude save or become unconscious. A failure by 10 or more results in death.

Body Runes: Runes are intricate designs carved into the flesh, with various coloring and magical materials added. At the indicated levels, the Runemage gains the ability to carve a new rune into his body. This ability does not have to be used immediately. Carving a body rune requires a Carve Runes check with DC 15, and each attempt costs 500 gp worth of rare materials and takes a full day. You cannot take 10 or 20 on a check to carve a body rune. If the carving check fails, the character must wait for a month to try again, and needs to receive a heal or regeneration spell to remove the scarring and lingering magic before he can try to carve the same rune again. It is possible to carve the same rune more than once, though the Runemage is restricted to the number of locations it can be carved, and stacking is calculated as normal. Instead of selecting a new, higher level rune, the character may purchase two first level runes instead of one third, three first level runes instead of a fourth, or two second level runes instead of a fourth. Also, each body rune draws on the characters life force, causing the permanent loss of 1 hit point per body rune the character possesses. Should the character acquire a new body by any means, any runes he has carved manifest on it after the first day, due to their connection to his soul. A wish spell allows a rune to be erased, allowing the carving of a new one. A Runemage can research new runes with the game master’s approval. This takes 1 week and a Spellcraft check DC 25.

Runes Available
1st level: Rune of Dreams, Rune of Battle-Sense, Rune of Regeneration, Rune of the Evil Eye, Rune of Invulnerability
2nd level: Rune of the Light Feet, Rune of the Third Eye, Rune of the Claw, Rune of the Shattered Blade.
3rd level: Rune of Awareness
4th level: Spelleater Rune, Rune of Fury

1st Level Runes

Rune of Invulnerability: (Su) grants Damage Reduction (number of body runes)/adamantine. Carved along the spine, for
which the character needs to be able to cast mage hand, or have some other means of carving runes (something he must do
himself), onto his own back.

Rune of Dreams: (Su) The character's dreams become more powerful, gaining the ability to sustain him and ready him for the day to come. The character only needs to sleep/trance for half the normal time for his race, to be rested enough for the day to come, and he can ready his spells while dreaming, negating his need to spend 15 minutes doing so upon waking. The character, like any spellcaster, still needs 8 hours of rest to regain used spells. Also, the character can partake of marvelous feasts in his dreams, negating his need for any sustenance in the real world. The character gains +4 to saving throws versus dream-based spells, spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities such as nightmare.


Rune of Battle-Sense: (Su) +1/body rune insight bonus to AC. The Rune of Battle-Sense functions at any time the character is able to move. Glows dim blue for a short time when helping the mage avoid an attack.

Rune of Regeneration: (Su) Heals 1 hit point/hour/body rune. Glows while character is wounded.

Rune of the Evil Eye: (Sp)Carved around the left eye. Grants the ability to use bestow curse 1/day/body rune.
The DC is 10+Runemage level+cha bonus. the ability has a range 25' caster levels, and hits automatically.
Glows red or blue when activated.


2nd Level Runes

Rune of the Claw: One of the character's hands, into which the rune is carved, becomes a wicked claw on command. The claw does 1d6 damage, has the spell storing weapon property, and a +1 magical enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage per body rune the character possesses. The character can choose to replace one of these +1 bonuses with the keen property. When the character acquires his fifth rune, the claw penetrates adamantine-based damage reduction, and only counts half hardness when used to attack objects. The claw can be used to deliver touch attacks, adding its enhancement bonus to the attack roll.
This cannot be used to activate the spell storing ability. The rune glows faintly while a spell is stored in it. It is possible to add a rune of the claw to both hands, if it is purchased twice.

Rune of the Light Feet: (Su) Carved into the soles of the feet, this rune grants the ability to air walk at will, and increases the character's base speed by 10'. The rune glows blue while active.

Rune of the Third Eye: (Sp) constant arcane sight. Can be deactivated at will. The Rune of the Third Eye is carved into the forehead. Glows when active.

Rune of the Shattered Blade Once per day per body rune he possesses, the rune of the shattered blade casts a shatter spell at a melee weapon just as it damages the Runemage. The character decides whether to activate the rune of the shattered blade until he reaches 8th level in this class. Until then, it attacks the first weapon which damages the character on any given day. The DC of the shatter spell is (10+ class level+ CHA bonuses). The rune has no effect on objects which are not wielded by someone at the moment of impact, or on objects which the shatter spell could not affect. Unlike the shatter spell, the rune of the shattered blade can affect magical weapons, as long as their total bonus (including abilities whose cost are calculated as a bonus) do not exceed the number of runes the character possesses. The rune of the shattered blade is carved into the right shoulder, and flashes with bright fiery light when it activates.
Historical note: In the year 564, the barbarian mage Silthun was executed for his allies because his Rune of the Shattered Blade had destroyed a powerful blade which his tribe coveted.

3rd Level Rune

Rune of Awareness: The Rune of Awareness, which is carved onto the neck of the character, grants him a preternatural
awareness of his surroundings, which corresponds to Blindsense with a range of 10' per body rune he has.

4th Level Runes

Spelleater Rune: (Su) Once per day, the Spelleater rune absorbs a single-target spell or a ray aimed at the character
only. The player must decide whether a given spell is absorbed before he makes any saving throws, but after any spell resistance is checked. The Spelleater Rune cannot absorb spells of higher level than the character could cast as a wizard of equal level. The Rune, which is always carved on the left hand, glows bright blue when absorbing a spell.

Rune of Fury (Su) Once per day, for a number of rounds equal to his class level, the Runemage can surround himself with a blaze of arcane energy. While the Rune of Fury is active, the character glows like a daylight spell, and the level of
all Fluid spells he casts are increased by the number of body runes he possesses. He also gains Spell Resistance equal to the number of body runes he has. The rune of fury is added to the rune of focus, and its bright blue blaze can be seen even through normal clothing when it is activated.


Alrighty...this is the ROUGH DRAFT THINGY of the class. It needs work, I know. Thats why I'm putting here. No one on the Wizard boards will help me anymore. Also, I just want to note that the class is somewhat GM intensive, with the fluid magic and such.

[Lysander]

I'd say just put some open-ended limitations on the system. For example for creation set a gp limit on the value of the item to be created, and make different categories they'd need to purchase like spells within Creo. For instance to make a bar of iron or a blob of gold they'd need the Creo spell for metal. To make an iron key or a bar of steel they'd need both the metal spell and the craft spell, which lets them form items created artificially by humans. To create a sword set with diamonds they'd need the metal, craft, and crystal spells, etc.

And for something like destruction you could put a cap on the total damage an ability does. For instance if they had the fire spell they could shoot a fireball or make a broad wave of fire or heat the ground until it melted things on it, but no matter how they utilize their ability it could do a maximum of XdY total damage.

[Randomman413]

Wow. One of the few (and best) constructive things so far. So, categories? Hmm...that'll make it tough. I'll get on that.

Spells may deal no more damage than your runemage level times the either the technique or form used-whichever is lower. So, a first level character can do at max four damage with his magic. Second level, ten. Third level, eightteen. Fourth level, twenty-eight. Fifth level, forty. And so on. But these all assume that the character is rolling for max damage. I'll try and post some guidelines on certain techniques later.

[Reltzik]

The problem with role playing in the Death Gate series is mainly twofold.

First, the races are definitely NOT balanced. Most things being equal, unless there's a bucket of seawater handy the mensch (humans, dwarves, and elves to those who haven't read the series) will get there heads handed to them any time a Sartan or Patryn (uber god-like magic races for the same) shows up. (And that bucket of seawater can quickly turn into Kryptonite if you're not careful. You know, that superexotic weakness of Superman that EVERYONE knows about and ALWAYS turns up and is as predictable as the good guy winning? Yeah, that stuff.) Same with the classes -- something like fighter or rogue or assassin would have a REALLY hard time taking on a wizard, and wizards would have an easy time taking those on.

That's okay, in the right kind of game. Power-balance is important in combat- and obstacle-based systems like DnD, but a game focussing mostly on pure roleplaying would let people have fun even as the mere mortal races. This, however, dictates a very different kind of system. If the focus of the game is pure-roleplay, you don't WANT thirty-page chapters and half the character sheet focussed entirely on combat. It's superfluous busy-work that detracts from the game. You don't want XP or its equivalent to be based on defeating enemies, because people should be able to learn simply through practice and drill. You don't want a level 1 character with 6 HP in the same world as a level 15 character with 100 hp, because a crossbow bolt is supposed to be dangerous to all. DnD, or for that matter any d20, is not the right tool for such a game. (See this link for more on what I'm talking about: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/1/ )

This segues into the second problem. Magic in the Death Gate setting is supposed to be very potent and dynamic. While I recall the magic of humans and elves being somewhat limited (relatively speaking), they weren't memorizing and casting particular spells. (A spell-point system might be more appropriate, there. I'm not familiar with the Ars Magica system, but fatigue sounds about right. What I scanned of your post suggests that you're on the right track there.) My first thought was to try a system somewhat related to M:tA. In both cases, the strategy is not to choose from a defined list of effects, but rather construct effects from a set of specialties. The problem is, DnD and d20 aren't well set up or balanced for this, either. Even the archmage prestige class, with only narrowly customizing abilities like "shape spell", can get very broken very quickly. So, even if you wanted Sartan-vs-Patryn battles, and nuts to the mensch, you might want to stay away from d20.

[Randomman413]

Right then...
I respect your opinion, COMPLETELY understand what youre saying (and sort of agree with it), but will continue with this pursuit regardless.
Creo Limits-
A lump of matter-0 ranks.
A crudely shaped object-4 ranks.
A very simple object-8 ranks.
A moderately simple object- 10 ranks.
A slightly complex object- 12 ranks.
A moderately complex object- 14 ranks.
A very complex object- 18 ranks.
An incredibely complex object- 20 ranks.

Muto Limits-
A change in color or odor-4 ranks.
A change in texture or temperature- 8 ranks.
A slight change in size, a slight change in shape (but not size or material)- 10 ranks.
A moderate (but not category affecting) change in size, alteration of hair to very fluffy feathers (very similar material), a small change in shape, change to similar material (like predistigitation)-12 ranks
A change in size to one category larger or smaller, major change in shape, change to another material in the same kingdom (not need to be TOO similar, must remain in same form(solid, gas, or liquid))- 14 ranks.
A change in size up to 2 categories larger or smaller, complete change of object (same material, same amount, one category larger or smaller), change material to it's corresponding sold, gas, or liquid (water to ice or steam), change material to any other material in the same kingdom and state-16 ranks.
Utter change of an object (related material, slightly different amount, one category larger or smaller), change of a material to a related material in any other state- 18 ranks
Change object to a related material or the same material in a different state, that weighs up to twice as much or half as much, two categories larger or smaller. change a material to any other material in any other state- 20 ranks.


Thats all for now...later tonight...or tomorrow...input is a great thing.

[Lysander]

Are created objects/transformed objects permanent?

[Randomman413]

Generally, yes. Inanimate objects are usually permanent. (Unless your GM says that the ruby you made via Creo Terram is going to turn into sand in 1 day (just...cuz hes evil...)) Magic objects and creatures will (just randomly) dissapear after 1 min./ class level. Things that create sudden effects (like Creo Ignem) are instantaneous. The fire you create will dissapear, but it can still catch things on fire, and those will keep burning. Other questions? Input? Output? Own ideas? Feelings towards the class? Towards the computer? Towards Banjo?

[Lysander]

I think you still need to be a bit more specific with the limitations. For instance, what's the difference between a slightly and moderately complex object. Would a watch qualify as moderately complex? What about a steak? After all, a piece of meat is a complex structure made of protein. Is it more complex than a living mouse? Etc.

[Randomman413]

Hmm...
A crudely shaped object- a box with rough and non straight edges. A sort of wavy mirror. (both not intentional and making the object substandard)
A very simple object- A cube. A sphere.
A moderately simple object- A wooden chair with a flat back and plain, round legs. An unlit torch. Medium Dead animal.Tiny live, non magical animal.
A slightly complex object- A skeleton key. A table with fancy legs. Small live, non magical animal.
A moderately complex object- A table with ornately carved legs and detailed edging. An exquisite velvet fedora with the characters name sewn ino the brim. Large Dead animal. A tiny magical animal. Medium live, non magical animal.
A very complex object- A repeating crossbow. An hourglass that drips sand at a rate of 1 side per hour. A small magical animal. Large live animal, non magical animal.
An incredibely complex object- An arcane device of some sort. A clockwork pistol. A medium magical animal. A huge dead animal. A large live, non magical animal. A medium magical animal.

Hmm...its good. On another note of this, a created creature's HD may never exceed one half the characters runemage level.

[Lysander]

Could a character create a human being?

[Randomman413]

Yes. Sort of. You can create a dead human body. You can create a live human body. You can create the semblance of life in this body (moving around and talking and stuff). You cannot create a soul, though. That means that the dead human body could be moved around like it was alive, or brought back as a zombie sort of thing. Or the live body could mentally controlled to act as though it were still alive. You can create a human, but you cannot give it a soul.
I really need to make these magic guidelines into a file. BUT I DON'T HAVE A SITE TO POST IT ON!!! So...I can't make it. Could someone with webspace compile and assemble and form a file with the Fluid Magic guidelines? Yes. But will they?

[Randomman413]

So...how do i post a document to be opened?