PDA

View Full Version : Am I overpowered?



Eon
2009-07-12, 10:18 AM
Okay, I'm playing in a 4.0 game as a level 1 ranged fighting style ranger. I used the character builder from the Wizards of the Coast I believe and I equipped my character with a Prime Shot longbow. The DM allowed 2 level 1 magic items or 1 level 2. The bow was level 2. I have 18 dexterity so my Nimble Strike has a very nice damage mod.

I was playing in the game and I noticed most of my hits were 20+. Is this right for a level 1 character. The DM told us we leveled up so we leveled up after the last game we played. Is 20 damage okay for a level 2? We are in Keep on the Shadowfell so I don't know how I could change it but anyway... Any ideas?:smallconfused:

Thanatos 51-50
2009-07-12, 10:51 AM
You're a striker. If you're not dealing seemingly absurd amounts of damage, you're underpowered.

KillianHawkeye
2009-07-12, 10:53 AM
Well, you are a Striker so I think 20 damage is alright. Even with an At-Will power, assuming that you're using your Hunter's Quarry. Damage is what Strikers are all about.

Although you're not really supposed to start with any magic items at level 1, so you probably are a little overpowered because of that.

Eon
2009-07-12, 10:59 AM
Everyone started with magic items so. The reason I brought it here was because the DM was complaining about me being overpowered.

KillianHawkeye
2009-07-12, 11:40 AM
Assuming you are using a longbow, your Nimble Strike should deal 1d10+5 damage (average 5.5, max 15). Add in another 1d6 from Hunter's Quarry to increase it to 9 points of damage on average (max 21). Another +1 if you are regularly benefitting from Prime Shot makes it 10 average (max 22).

So, assuming I have added everything correctly, you are either rolling very well (or rolling crits) or doing something wrong. Getting 20 damage from Nimble Strike is certainly possible for you at level 1, just not the norm.

Of course, if we are talking about your Encounter or Daily powers, then you'll easily be getting 20 or more points of damage quite regularly.

RTGoodman
2009-07-12, 12:43 PM
Assuming you are using a longbow, your Nimble Strike should deal 1d10+5 damage (average 5.5, max 15). Add in another 1d6 from Hunter's Quarry to increase it to 9 points of damage on average (max 21). Another +1 if you are regularly benefitting from Prime Shot makes it 10 average (max 22).

And you've forgotten the +1 damage from the magic longbow, and he might have taken the Lethal Hunter and/or Weapon Focus feats for +1/+2 damage. That brings us to 1d10 + 1d8 + 4 (Dex) + 1 (prime shot weapon) + 1 enhancement + 1 (feat), for average of 17 and max of 25.

Heck, he could probably do decent damage WITHOUT Dex mod to damage on nimble strike. Twin strike is the better at-will statistically, and would give the possibility of 2d10 + 1d6 + 4 (average 18.5, max 30), or 2d10 + 1d8 + 6 (avg. 21.5, max 34) with both feats I mentioned above.

Basically, no, it's not overpowered for the purest Striker in the game to do his job so well.

ThunderCat
2009-07-12, 01:25 PM
It would help if you could tell us exactly which bonusses you get, and from where.

Alteran
2009-07-12, 02:00 PM
Everyone started with magic items so. The reason I brought it here was because the DM was complaining about me being overpowered.

It's possible he's viewing everything in terms of HP. You're a striker, you are supposed to be very good at dealing damage. If you're the only striker, then I imagine that you'll look even more powerful comparatively. The different roles are all very important, but it's not always as obvious as the damage a striker can deal. Anybody can count damage dealt, but it's considerably harder to put a value on how the defender keeps you safe, or how the leader keeps you alive and fighting better.

In combat, everything eventually comes down to dealing the damage. Strikers are very good at dealing this damage. In very broad terms, the other roles make it easier for the party (especially you) to do this while dealing some damage of their own.

So no, I'm guessing you're not overpowered. Just because strikers are flashy and very damaging doesn't mean they're too good, that's what they're supposed to be like.

Yakk
2009-07-12, 02:47 PM
No, you aren't overpowered. In fact, you are playing below your potential -- twin strike is a significantly better power than nimble strike damage-wise.

Getting Prime Shot shouldn't be trivial -- in order to get Prime Shot, nobody else that is your ally can be closer to your target than you. So any melee characters closer than you ... will mess it up.

Generally, strikers are about killing things dead.

At level 1, a Human Ranger with 18 dex using Nimble Strike getting Prime Shot with a Prime Shot Longbow, and feats Weapon Focus and Deadly Hunter:
+4(dex)+1(prime)+2(proficiency)+1(enchantment) = +8 to hit
Damage: d10([W])+4(dex)+1(prime)+1(enchantment)+1d8(HQ) = 8-24 damage, average 16. On a crit, does 25-30 damage.

Assuming a target with an AC of 16, 60% hit 5% crit rate.
9.6+1.375=10.975 average damage per round.

Using Twin Strike:
Same to-hit
Damage: 3-12 per arrow, 13-18 on a crit, plus 1d8 if either hit (or 8 if either crit).
Arrow damage: 5.275 per arrow, plus 4.56 from HQ (including crit HQ) = 15.11 average damage per round

So if it makes your DM feel better, you could be doing 38% more damage per round just by picking a different power. :) And as a plus, your twin strike arrows will (individually) be doing less damage on average.

Riffington
2009-07-12, 02:54 PM
Disclaimer: I haven't played 4e.

But if the DM and other players are worried that you are too powerful or they aren't contributing, etc: try a combat where everyone plays a copy of your character. It works better if the combat is one that would pose an above-average threat to your usual party. Now see what happens. If you are out of balance with your group, the combat will seem like a cakewalk. But if the other characters were actually contributing, the combat will be hard or result in some deaths. Those deaths will convince your players/DM way better than any numerical argument.

Of course, this is just talking about combat. If your game isn't about that, none of the above really applies.

Thanatos 51-50
2009-07-12, 03:23 PM
The other folk have shown up and showed you the math. You're just rolling pretty well if most of your shots are doing 20+ points of damage.

And, also like the other's said, are you the only striker? If you're the only one laying down alot of hurt, you're going to look a mite overpowered.
Are the other players doing their jobs, or are they trying to be strikers, too? This would amplify the "Bandil is doing way too much damage" illusion.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-07-12, 03:27 PM
Everyone started with magic items so. The reason I brought it here was because the DM was complaining about me being overpowered.

That's like letting people own nuclear powered cars and complaining about how dangerous traffic accidents get.

Ninetail
2009-07-12, 03:56 PM
Okay, I'm playing in a 4.0 game as a level 1 ranged fighting style ranger. I used the character builder from the Wizards of the Coast I believe and I equipped my character with a Prime Shot longbow. The DM allowed 2 level 1 magic items or 1 level 2. The bow was level 2. I have 18 dexterity so my Nimble Strike has a very nice damage mod.


You're a little overpowered, because you started out with a magic weapon and the assumption is that you don't. But not very overpowered, because the assumption is that you'll have a magic weapon by level 2 or 3, at the latest.


I was playing in the game and I noticed most of my hits were 20+. Is this right for a level 1 character. The DM told us we leveled up so we leveled up after the last game we played. Is 20 damage okay for a level 2? We are in Keep on the Shadowfell so I don't know how I could change it but anyway... Any ideas?:smallconfused:

20+ damage on Nimble Strike at level 1? That doesn't sound right. It's certainly possible, but that's at the higher end of your damage range, so "most" of your hits should be a bit lower. What bonuses do you have, and where are they coming from?

20 damage isn't outlandish for a ranger, though. It's possible you're just getting lucky. Good rolls, or a few crits, could easily produce 20-25 damage or more.

NPCMook
2009-07-12, 10:14 PM
Good thing you aren't playing a Barbarian... you might make your DM cry

Hat-Trick
2009-07-12, 10:28 PM
You look overpowered because your contribution is measurable, like someone else stated. Basically, you're the conduit of everyone's involvement. If everyone else is doing their jobs, and you're doing yours, it makes you look incredible due to the ability to measure your output.

WarBrute
2009-09-04, 02:14 PM
I think you're just surprised that ranger could be that powerful if you're use to playing as a ranger in 3.5.

I know I was when I played my first 4.0 game.

Optimystik
2009-09-04, 02:38 PM
That's like letting people own nuclear powered cars and complaining about how dangerous traffic accidents get.

Or giving spraypaint away on the street corner and complaining when there's graffiti everywhere.

shadzar
2009-09-04, 02:43 PM
4th edition is perfectly balanced against all classes and monsters, there is no way you could be overpowered. :smallsmile:

Sinfire Titan
2009-09-04, 02:49 PM
4th edition is perfectly balanced against all classes and monsters, there is no way you could be overpowered. :smallsmile:

Orbizard, much? Demigod? Beastmaster Ranger Epic Destiny that makes you immune to damage?

The fact that we broke the game before it even got printed?


And the Thread Necromancy?

shadzar
2009-09-04, 03:27 PM
And the Thread Necromancy?

:smallfurious: Don't blame me for that. I don't check the original date of a thread!

Starbuck_II
2009-09-04, 03:35 PM
That's like letting people own nuclear powered cars and complaining about how dangerous traffic accidents get.

They did that in Fallout and no one complained (because they all died).

Dixieboy
2009-09-04, 04:08 PM
They did that in Fallout and no one complained (because they all died).

That was not the cars error.
It was due to the fact that the goverment of the U.S.A in fallout were complete nutjobs.

Guancyto
2009-09-04, 04:11 PM
:smallfurious: Don't blame me for that. I don't check the original date of a thread!

Man, I remember this one time a dude made a whole new thread to sort-of snark a year-old comment about Druids and balance. Something about how they didn't belong in the same sentence.

Good times. By contrast, this is only a two-month necro.

shadzar
2009-09-04, 04:24 PM
Man, I remember this one time a dude made a whole new thread to sort-of snark a year-old comment about Druids and balance. Something about how they didn't belong in the same sentence.

Good times. By contrast, this is only a two-month necro.

Actually it had a post in it 5 minutes prior to my first. :smallsmile:

wadledo
2009-09-04, 04:31 PM
Actually it had a post in it 5 minutes prior to my first. :smallsmile:
Yea, but nobody was referring to you in the first place.

tribble
2009-09-04, 04:44 PM
In a way, I guess you are overpowered, along with the rest of the group. I mean, you aren't supposed to get magic Items at level one, so it's a bit like hacking a Square Enix game so you start with whatever weapon they named "ultima" in the game in question, and then complaining about oneshotting gribblies.

Sinfire Titan
2009-09-04, 08:53 PM
In a way, I guess you are overpowered, along with the rest of the group. I mean, you aren't supposed to get magic Items at level one, so it's a bit like hacking a Square Enix game so you start with whatever weapon they named "ultima" in the game in question, and then complaining about oneshotting gribblies.

But there's no such thing as Ultima in Drakengard...

There's Kingsblood, but that's something completely different.

Zipding
2009-09-05, 09:17 AM
In my 4e campaign, our two strikers, a warlock and barbarian, deal anywhere between 10 and 20 damage a round. We are both underpowered through lack of magic items. If you see the Fight for Survival thread, you will know why.