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Coidzor
2009-07-12, 05:34 PM
This was inspired by the discussions of the pact primeval and Asmodeus and sundry things both Tharizdunian and Pharodymian. Or something like that. Spelling's probably a bit off.

Basically, are there any 0-9th level spells which are capable of either shunting something outside of space-time/into the far realm or opening up a portal of some size or another to it?

What sort of Epic Spellcasting would be necessary to do this, say on a grander scale? For instance, opening a hole into the far realm in between Nessus and the rest of the nine hells or at least under Asmodeus's feet... Possibly underneath the three main copies of the pact primeval simultaneously, even...

I'm only cursorily familiar with spell seeds and DCs and the like, but I imagine that it's at least come up before.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-07-12, 05:37 PM
The 1d2 crusader punches reality and breaks a hole into the far realm.

Or

Precipitate Complete Breach from the Planar Handbook

Asheram
2009-07-12, 05:44 PM
Not sure if one ought to use Seed:Transport or Seed:Banish... Or both?
Along with perhaps Seed:Reveal for targeting

Yes, probably...
Use Transport and banish in order to shunt the target over to targeted plane.

Xefas
2009-07-12, 05:44 PM
Why couldn't a simple Gate spell create a portal to the Far Realm? Or a Plane Shift targeted with a touch attack against someone shunt them to the Far Realm?

As far as I know, planar travel has to work to and from the Far Realm, or else we wouldn't be getting creatures with the Pseudonatural template from Complete Arcane in the material realm.

Coidzor
2009-07-12, 05:46 PM
Well, I couldn't remember if it was supposed to be all that much harder to do than for one of the more mundane planes.

Claudius Maximus
2009-07-12, 05:49 PM
I'm not able to access my books at the moment, but I'm pretty sure that normal planar travel works to The Far Realm. But do you even really need a legitimate method? If you want to include something like this in a campaign you could just make up some sort of artifact or spell for the purpose, assuming you're the DM.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-07-12, 05:50 PM
Perform a play called "The King in Yellow".

Xefas
2009-07-12, 05:55 PM
Well, I couldn't remember if it was supposed to be all that much harder to do than for one of the more mundane planes.

I don't see why the Far Realm is less 'mundane' than the other planes. It's a pure, unfathomable abyss of crazy timeless horrors from beyond reality and imagining. Kind of like Limbo, Pandemonium, the Abyss, the Hells, Carceri, etc. The Outer Planes are meant to be outside our reality and imagining already, and the Lower Planes are meant to be unimaginably horrible. We just talk about them as omnipotently positioned gamers looking over the Great Wheel from on high so much that they lose some of that luster.

Coidzor
2009-07-12, 06:01 PM
I don't see why the Far Realm is less 'mundane' than the other planes. It's a pure, unfathomable abyss of crazy timeless horrors from beyond reality and imagining. Kind of like Limbo, Pandemonium, the Abyss, the Hells, Carceri, etc. The Outer Planes are meant to be outside our reality and imagining already, and the Lower Planes are meant to be unimaginably horrible. We just talk about them as omnipotently positioned gamers looking over the Great Wheel from on high so much that they lose some of that luster.

Mundane in that, as far as I can tell, even the abyss is part of the natural order of the multiverse/universe, it fits within the cosmology. The far realm seems to be basically described as the "stuff outside the universe," or at least "outside the cosmology."


I'm not able to access my books at the moment, but I'm pretty sure that normal planar travel works to The Far Realm. But do you even really need a legitimate method? If you want to include something like this in a campaign you could just make up some sort of artifact or spell for the purpose, assuming you're the DM.

More the same sort of sick perversion that causes people to wonder what the construction of an Epic Spell to cause a super nova would be, really.

Eldariel
2009-07-12, 06:03 PM
I don't see why the Far Realm is less 'mundane' than the other planes. It's a pure, unfathomable abyss of crazy timeless horrors from beyond reality and imagining. Kind of like Limbo, Pandemonium, the Abyss, the Hells, Carceri, etc. The Outer Planes are meant to be outside our reality and imagining already, and the Lower Planes are meant to be unimaginably horrible. We just talk about them as omnipotently positioned gamers looking over the Great Wheel from on high so much that they lose some of that luster.

Well, it's supposed to be a far worse place than that, but specifically getting there should be harder 'cause it's cut off from the great wheel, a completely separate place (and completely alien to this world).

Plane Shift-level abilities only function through Astral Plane which is the medium through which you transport yourself - as Far Realms isn't (supposedly) connected to the Astral Plane, getting there would be notably more difficult.


To my understanding, there's also some sort of a barrier or blockade or something due to the invasion of the Far Realms way back in the day (the whole Asmodeus-deal).

EDIT: Nevermind, Plane Shift doesn't use the Astral Plane (was thinking Astral Projection & al. there). I wonder what else I'm misremembering here...

Xefas
2009-07-12, 06:08 PM
Mundane in that, as far as I can tell, even the abyss is part of the natural order of the multiverse/universe, it fits within the cosmology. The far realm seems to be basically described as the "stuff outside the universe," or at least "outside the cosmology."

Well, the Abyss is home to Demons, whose motives are the destruction of all that exists. They want to devour everything, including the Afterlife so that not even the dead will be there to mourn, and then when there's nothing left, they'll devour themselves. They're 'natural' in the sense that anything that exists is 'unnatural' and for there to be nothing is the natural state of things.

Law in that sense is unnatural, as it contained the demonic horde and allowed existence to be. The Devils are responsible in a large part for that. Though, their final solution may be more horrifying to some people. They want to enslave all that is and make all life, death, and afterlife one perpetual empty state of horror and pain.

Claudius Maximus
2009-07-12, 06:14 PM
Now that I've actually read that Pact Primeval thread, I can see that this is more of a speculative thing, so I guess a purpose-built artifact wouldn't be very satisfying.

I'd say that plunging a plane into the Far Realm would be something like an epic version of Precipitate Breach. I reckon it would be an application of Seed: Transport, but probably not Seed: Banish. The problem with Seed: Transport is that there are no set rules for using it to replicate Precipitate Breach, and using it legitimately would result in a ludicrous DC since a decent portion of a plane would probably weigh significantly more than 1000 pounds. If we really wanted to (in my opinion) push credibility with the spell we could make it affect an area, say a sphere, then increase the area until you get a huge swath of planar breach, then make it permanent. It's still going to have a gigantic DC, though.

Glimbur
2009-07-12, 07:08 PM
Cast Gate to make a portal to some other plane, attach it to a wall. Go through. Cast Gate from the other plane back to the first plane, attached at the first plane to something you can move. Push all the Gates together around someone. Where do they go? Far Realms is a valid answer. This might also be a way to make Vestiges from Tome of Magic.