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Korivan
2009-07-12, 09:34 PM
Just like the title says. I've seen the word Gish tossed around alot...and I have no idea what this means.

Vaynor
2009-07-12, 09:35 PM
It's a character with both physical damage and spell damage capabilities. A warrior who casts spells.

Assassin89
2009-07-12, 09:36 PM
Gish is jargon for an arcane spell caster and martial class combination. Being a gish is similar to the Eldritch Knight prestige class .

FMArthur
2009-07-12, 09:38 PM
A gish is a caster who is taking too long to realize what is and is not a total waste of his or her time in combat.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-07-12, 09:38 PM
Try the search function in the future. It doesn't always malfunction.

Glyde
2009-07-12, 09:40 PM
Lets make this topic relevant again!

I've always wondered: Where does the term come from? Why is it called 'Gish' in the first place?

Talic
2009-07-12, 09:41 PM
A gish is a caster who is taking too long to realize what is and is not a total waste of his or her time in combat.

Or a melee that saw the light a little too late?

Kalbron
2009-07-12, 09:42 PM
It always put me in mind of the Githyanki/Githzerai to be honest.

Both are races that focus upon melee combat and use of psychic/magic powers.

Zeta Kai
2009-07-12, 09:42 PM
What hasn't been said is that the word derives from the Githyanki, who had an order of warrior-mages called "gishes".

Aneantir
2009-07-12, 09:54 PM
As Zeta Kai said. In Monster Manual 4, page 62, theres a Fighter 2/Evoker 5 stat block for Githyanki thats entitled "Gish". Thats where the name comes from.

Hat-Trick
2009-07-12, 09:56 PM
The Gish is more of a style points character than a "kill the game" character.

Siosilvar
2009-07-12, 10:01 PM
As Zeta Kai said. In Monster Manual 4, page 62, theres a Fighter 2/Evoker 5 stat block for Githyanki thats entitled "Gish". Thats where the name comes from.

The name actually dates back at least to 1st edition.

FMArthur
2009-07-12, 10:04 PM
Or a melee that saw the light a little too late?

I'm not saying that you should not play a melee character; just that you don't have enough combat actions to support two action-consuming roles, and that a gish is usually just a caster who happens to have a high enough BAB to hit things, and that's really not enough to be useful on the frontlines.

This goes mostly for the 'basic' gishes like wizard/EK/Abjurant Champion sort of things. Some classes really do specialize in using magic to aid their melee endeavours. Duskblade, Psychic Warrior, Swiftblade and Jade Pheonix Mage are the only ones I think actually make a party role out of gish. When I hear "gish" I just can't help but think of the common builds I see that sacrifice significant casting ability to gain the power to die quickly in a fistfight.

PirateMonk
2009-07-12, 10:06 PM
With regards to the original question, there is a stickied thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18512) in this forum which defines gish in the second post, just for future reference.

BenTheJester
2009-07-12, 11:44 PM
Gish are just not overpowered like full casters are.

The Duskblade, which is the perfect representation of a gish, or at least, what a gish should be, is tier 3, which is, if you ask me, the best tier

13_CBS
2009-07-12, 11:46 PM
A Psychic Warrior would count as a Gish, yes? I heard they're pretty balanced and useful.

Milskidasith
2009-07-12, 11:49 PM
Wouldn't clerics be gishes, at least to a certain extent (and, AFAIK, pretty good at it)? Of course, they are full casting and can do everything a level 20 melee class can do with a few buffs, so... yeah.

Vaynor
2009-07-12, 11:49 PM
A Psychic Warrior would count as a Gish, yes? I heard they're pretty balanced and useful.

Yes, they would, and they're pretty good at it too. Tier 3 material.


Wouldn't clerics be gishes, at least to a certain extent (and, AFAIK, pretty good at it)?

Not necessarily, but they can easily be built to be gishes. Depends on equipment used/feats taken/skills/etc.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-07-12, 11:50 PM
There is a huge misconception that a Gish uses spells to deal damage, this could not be more incorrect. A Gish is a melee character who uses spells, typically arcane, to enhance his melee capabilities. Those spells are what makes the character a superior melee combatant to a standard full BAB class. A Gish should not have any damage dealing spells on his entire list apart from what he puts into his Spell Storing weapon, and maybe some strong disable/debuff spells that happen to also deal damage. Everything else should be combat buffs, because he deals damage with melee attacks.

The word Gish comes from the oldschool Githyanki Fighter/Mages. Back in those days, arcane magic made a character unkillable, and only arcane magic could defeat those protections. Therefore, you have a warrior who cannot be defeated by anyone but an arcane spellcaster, who also happens to be able to defeat a given arcane spellcaster once he gets their protections down and gets into melee with them. He didn't use spells to deal damage then, and the concept does not use spells to deal damage now.

Milskidasith
2009-07-12, 11:59 PM
I'm really not sure how to build an effective cleric; I know you can buff yourself to be incredibly powerful, but I'm new at this and don't really know what kind of save or suck stuff you can do to your enemies. At early levels, as far as I can tell, you are mostly limited to buffs, debuffs, and hold person.

AslanCross
2009-07-13, 03:53 AM
I'm really not sure how to build an effective cleric; I know you can buff yourself to be incredibly powerful, but I'm new at this and don't really know what kind of save or suck stuff you can do to your enemies. At early levels, as far as I can tell, you are mostly limited to buffs, debuffs, and hold person.

A high-level cleric doesn't need save-or-suck or save-or-die. He has "DIE, PERIOD." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyword.htm)

At lower levels, a cleric will usually take a prestige class since he doesn't gain anything else from cleric. If he takes a full casting prestige class, he can still gain access to some very good spells, namely Divine Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divinepower.htm), Righteous Might (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/righteousMight.htm), and Righteous Wrath of the Faithful.

The cool thing is, the Strength bonuses from Divine Power and Righteous Might stack. Righteous Wrath of the Faithful is like Haste, but better.

PrCs like Ordained Champion don't give the cleric full casting, but he gets a really nifty spell channeling ability.

That's not even getting to the cheese. The Cleric can get Divine Metamagic, which allows him to burn Turn Undead for the purposes of applying Metamagic feats he knows to his spells without increasing the prepared spell level or the casting time. Persist Spell for a 24-hour Righteous Might.

Anyway, the Duskblade is sometimes derided as a "false gish" because it gets very few defensive spells. It's kind of the opposite, and is capable of explosive damage by "going nova" (consuming more resources per round to deal more damage). The combo is usually channeling even a low-level spell like Shocking Grasp and using the feat Arcane Strike to boost damage even more. Pretty nifty.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-13, 09:28 AM
One note--"gish" originally referred exclusively to githyanki fighter/magic-users, so while it has been generalized to "any martial/non-martial cross where the non-martial half buffs for combat" and psychic warriors, cleric/fighters, etc. can be referred to as gishes, asking for a gish build or gish resources etc. will often default to arcane/martial unless otherwise specified.

Cyclocone
2009-07-13, 09:51 AM
One note--"gish" originally referred exclusively to githyanki fighter/magic-users, so while it has been generalized to "any martial/non-martial cross where the non-martial half buffs for combat" and psychic warriors, cleric/fighters, etc. can be referred to as gishes, asking for a gish build or gish resources etc. will often default to arcane/martial unless otherwise specified.

Yes. Default Gishes are arcane. Melee-Clerics are more commonly refered to as Zillas, but that's a different story.


Anyway, the Duskblade is sometimes derided as a "false gish" because it gets very few defensive spells. It's kind of the opposite, and is capable of explosive damage by "going nova" (consuming more resources per round to deal more damage). The combo is usually channeling even a low-level spell like Shocking Grasp and using the feat Arcane Strike to boost damage even more. Pretty nifty.

There is a huge misconception that a Gish uses spells to deal damage, this could not be more incorrect. A Gish is a melee character who uses spells, typically arcane, to enhance his melee capabilities. Those spells are what makes the character a superior melee combatant to a standard full BAB class. A Gish should not have any damage dealing spells on his entire list apart from what he puts into his Spell Storing weapon, and maybe some strong disable/debuff spells that happen to also deal damage. Everything else should be combat buffs, because he deals damage with melee attacks.

Again, Yes. The default Gish only uses magic for "Knowledge and Defence" and lets the fighter-half take care of what it's actually competent at.
Admittedly, this might be caused by "Gish" originating in an edition where fighters didn't need to jump through a ridiculous amount of hoops to remain effective at damage-dealing.
In 3e gishes tend to be spread a bit thin, hence why people are always hating on them.:smallfrown:

Saph
2009-07-13, 09:56 AM
Oh, I don't know, gish builds can be pretty good.

My first Test of Spite entry was a Warblade/Wizard/Abjurant Champion/Jade Phoenix Mage, and he proved quite effective. Spells for defence, ToB maneuvers for attack.

- Saph

Person_Man
2009-07-13, 10:35 AM
You might want to read the Githyanki entry in wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Githyanki). Basically they were the first fighter/magic-users. (And they were awesome). So it became shorthand for the build concept.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-13, 10:58 AM
Admittedly, this might be caused by "Gish" originating in an edition where fighters didn't need to jump through a ridiculous amount of hoops to remain effective at damage-dealing.
In 3e gishes tend to be spread a bit thin, hence why people are always hating on them.:smallfrown:

That's pretty much the case, from what I've found. If you give the fighter a big save boost, let him full attack while moving, cut HP by 1/3 at higher levels, and houserule in other 1e-isms, the gish-as-buffed-fighter does great. If you don't go with that highly unlikely scenario and play it as-is, then gish-as-buffed-wizard-with-higher-HP-and-AC-and-a-sword is the more likely result.

Saph
2009-07-13, 11:10 AM
That's pretty much the case, from what I've found. If you give the fighter a big save boost, let him full attack while moving, cut HP by 1/3 at higher levels, and houserule in other 1e-isms, the gish-as-buffed-fighter does great. If you don't go with that highly unlikely scenario and play it as-is, then gish-as-buffed-wizard-with-higher-HP-and-AC-and-a-sword is the more likely result.

Use a Warblade instead. They don't need houserules to be deadly.

- Saph

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-13, 11:39 AM
Use a Warblade instead. They don't need houserules to be deadly.

- Saph

Oh, I do--I'm a major ToB fan--but I was speaking specifically about the fighter/magic-user; my inner 1e DM cries out in pain if my githyanki are Warblade/Wizard/JPMs instead of Fighter/Wizards, since 3e warblade and 1e/2e fighter have different strengths, even though I replace the 3e fighter with warblade as a matter of course.

Lapak
2009-07-13, 12:19 PM
The word Gish comes from the oldschool Githyanki Fighter/Mages. Back in those days, arcane magic made a character unkillable, and only arcane magic could defeat those protections.Heck no. In 1e and 2e both, arcane magic was powerful but nowhere near making you unkillable. A pure wizard of any variety that let a fighter-type gets within arms' reach was in serious, serious trouble, and keeping them out of reach was a lot more difficult. We're talking about when casting most spells took several segments - meaning that you'd start casting and then other people get their turn before you finish - and any hit during a spell fizzled it.

only1doug
2009-07-13, 01:43 PM
A gish is a caster who is taking too long to realize what is and is not a total waste of his or her time in combat.

Please convince my GM of that, he's convinced that my gish is overpowered cheese (compared to both the cleric and druid in the group) (mainly because they are blasting: sonic lance, flame strike, etc where my gish is casting long duration buffs).

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-13, 02:23 PM
Please convince my GM of that, he's convinced that my gish is overpowered cheese (compared to both the cleric and druid in the group) (mainly because they are blasting: sonic lance, flame strike, etc where my gish is casting long duration buffs).

Nothing we can do to convince him, but you might ask the cleric and druid to try buffing and crowd control for one combat (maybe have the cleric buff and druid control for one combat, then switch for the next) so the DM would have evidence right in front of him to show that blasting is going to make you less effective instead of gishes being too good.

John Campbell
2009-07-13, 02:43 PM
You might want to read the Githyanki entry in wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Githyanki). Basically they were the first fighter/magic-users. (And they were awesome). So it became shorthand for the build concept.

Bah. Elves were the first fighter/magic-users, from clear back when Elf was a class. Gith didn't even show up until Fiend Folio.

Using an obscure githyanki-specific term to refer to fighter/mages in general really irritates me. It's inaccurate and pointlessly obfuscatory.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-13, 02:47 PM
Bah. Elves were the first fighter/magic-users, from clear back when Elf was a class. Gith didn't even show up until Fiend Folio.

Githyanki were the first to have a term for it, though; "gish" is a handy shorthand, whereas you can't exactly say "I'm building an elf, by which I mean to say a fighter/magic-user which isn't an elf at all." :smallwink:


Using an obscure githyanki-specific term to refer to fighter/mages in general really irritates me. It's inaccurate and pointlessly obfuscatory.

It's just like calling utility wizards Batman or buffed divine casters CoDzilla--once you know what the term means and how it originated, it's very useful for getting your point across, though anyone who doesn't frequent forums would look at you funny for saying you'll be playing Batman in the next campaign.

Blackfang108
2009-07-13, 02:48 PM
Bah. Elves were the first fighter/magic-users, from clear back when Elf was a class. Gith didn't even show up until Fiend Folio.

Using an obscure githyanki-specific term to refer to fighter/mages in general really irritates me. It's inaccurate and pointlessly obfuscatory.

The only reason it irks me is because I've had problems with the Githyanki race before. (As in, the entire race. I'm thinking of doing them a favor as revenge.)

Person_Man
2009-07-13, 02:53 PM
Please convince my GM of that, he's convinced that my gish is overpowered cheese (compared to both the cleric and druid in the group) (mainly because they are blasting: sonic lance, flame strike, etc where my gish is casting long duration buffs).

Play a core only Druid that Wildshapes into a dinosaur, takes Natural Spell, casts buffs, and uses Summon Nature's Ally X liberally for battlefield control.

Then play a core only Cleric with the Travel and Strength (Saint Christopher, Scott Bakula) or Travel and Trickery domains (Hermes, Mercury, Dalt, Mouqol, Sehanine Moonbow). Buff yourself with 2-3 spells before each combat, and own the battlefield. If surprised, cast Invisibility or Mislead and then Summon (not an attack). At high levels, use Polymorph any Object and Time Stop liberally.

Then point out to your DM that a build with 17ish BAB and 7thish level Wizard spells by ECL 20 isn't that powerful after all.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-07-13, 02:59 PM
Bah. Elves were the first fighter/magic-users, from clear back when Elf was a class. Gith didn't even show up until Fiend Folio.

Using an obscure githyanki-specific term to refer to fighter/mages in general really irritates me. It's inaccurate and pointlessly obfuscatory.

Shall I get off your lawn, sir?

only1doug
2009-07-13, 04:13 PM
Nothing we can do to convince him, but you might ask the cleric and druid to try buffing and crowd control for one combat (maybe have the cleric buff and druid control for one combat, then switch for the next) so the DM would have evidence right in front of him to show that blasting is going to make you less effective instead of gishes being too good.

Nah, he's not too upset, just gets antsy about me hitting for 4d8+7 with 3 attacks and having reasonable AC. I think he'd prefer to hit the tank characters more often. (something we try to avoid as crits are very lethal due to variant rules in play).

The Rose Dragon
2009-07-13, 05:02 PM
Nah, he's not too upset, just gets antsy about me hitting for 4d8+7 with 3 attacks and having reasonable AC. I think he'd prefer to hit the tank characters more often. (something we try to avoid as crits are very lethal due to variant rules in play).

4d8 + 7? Really? That's what he's antsy about? That's, what, 75 damage? If all 3 attacks hit? Isn't it ridiculously easy to get 75 damage in a single attack?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-07-13, 05:05 PM
Nah, he's not too upset, just gets antsy about me hitting for 4d8+7 with 3 attacks and having reasonable AC. I think he'd prefer to hit the tank characters more often. (something we try to avoid as crits are very lethal due to variant rules in play).

That's very low damage unless you're under level 10 or so.

FMArthur
2009-07-13, 05:17 PM
That's very low damage unless you're under level 10 or so.


You mean in the range that most people do and should play? :smalltongue:

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-07-13, 05:23 PM
You can't prove any of that statement.:smallyuk:

Milskidasith
2009-07-13, 05:29 PM
A question for something earlier in the thread; how would I get my caster level up to make Holy Word do all of it's incredible "no save, you die" effects? I'm not really sure what magic items can push up my caster level (besides a bead of karma and one of the ioun stones).

Yuki Akuma
2009-07-13, 05:34 PM
You mean in the range that most people do and should play? :smalltongue:

"Should" play?


A question for something earlier in the thread; how would I get my caster level up to make Holy Word do all of it's incredible "no save, you die" effects? I'm not really sure what magic items can push up my caster level (besides a bead of karma and one of the ioun stones).

An appropriate reserve feat would boost your CL by one... Is there a sonic reserve feat?

I don't think there's a straight "Evocation" one.

Milskidasith
2009-07-13, 05:38 PM
Well I've found the Bead of Karma and one of the Ioun stones, which puts my caster level at +5 (for 10 minutes every day). That would be enough to paralyze everything in the area for 10 minutes with no save, which is as good as killing them, right?

olentu
2009-07-13, 07:53 PM
Let me see what I remember. As already said bead of karma for +4 and orange ioun stone for +1. If one is really focused Hierophant can increase caster level in addition to stacking its level with the base spellcasting class for caster level but spell progression is lost. I think divine spell power can give another +4. Ankh of ascension gives +4. Domains can give some pluses. I am sure there are many others I am forgetting.

Keld Denar
2009-07-13, 08:53 PM
Divine Spell Power also gives up to +4, and its pretty easy to optimize turn undead checks.

ResplendentFire
2009-07-13, 09:47 PM
You might want to read the Githyanki entry in wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Githyanki). Basically they were the first fighter/magic-users. (And they were awesome). So it became shorthand for the build concept.

nah, elves were the first fighter/magic users, they were just very limited in their advancement.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-07-14, 02:11 AM
For a Holy Word build, you go Cleric + PrCs to 13th level spellcasting, then take Heirophant 4 with Practiced Spellcaster. That alone gets you +4 CL, since you can add the bonuses in the most beneficial order, and then you can get Spell Power four times for another +4. Get the Good domain, an Orange Prism Ioun Stone, a Strand of Prayer Beads for the Bead of Karma, and as Keld said the feat Divine Spell Power.

Cleric spellcasting level 13
Practiced Spellcaster: +4
Heirophant 4 (class levels): +4
Spell Power x4: +4
Bead of Karma: +4
Good domain: +1
Ioun Stone: +1
Divine Spell Power: -4 to +4, depending on how well you optimize your checks
For a total caster level of up to 35, from a level 17 character. Anything with 25 or fewer HD that's not good aligned will be automatically killed. There are ways around it though, such as Horizon Walker, Magic Immunity, and casting Spell Immunity.

Saph
2009-07-14, 02:24 AM
For a total caster level of up to 35, from a level 17 character. Anything with 25 or fewer HD that's not good aligned will be automatically killed. There are ways around it though, such as Horizon Walker, Magic Immunity, and casting Spell Immunity.

Or doing the same thing back and using Blasphemy to paralyse/kill the entire party. :smalltongue: Blasphemy/Holy Word is one of those types of spells which really isn't much fun for either side.

- Saph

Cyclocone
2009-07-14, 02:46 AM
Ofcourse, if you're using Blasphemy you can also use Greater Consumptive Field for CL. So yeah, better not go there.:smallbiggrin:

only1doug
2009-07-14, 03:43 PM
"Should" play?



An appropriate reserve feat would boost your CL by one... Is there a sonic reserve feat?

I don't think there's a straight "Evocation" one.

Clap of Thunder adds +1(competance) CL to sonic spells.

I've created a seperate thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118266) to discuss my Gish to avoid sidetracking this thread with my (very minor) problems with my GM

The_JJ
2009-07-14, 04:05 PM
Now what's really fun about Holy Word is that it affects all nongood creatures in the area. Any of you allies LN, N, or CN?

Blackfang108
2009-07-14, 04:14 PM
Now what's really fun about Holy Word is that it affects all nongood creatures in the area. Any of you allies LN, N, or CN?

I'm CN in most of my campaigns.

My friends have stopped asking if I mind being hit by this effect.

Now they just cast it.

Delaney Gale
2009-07-14, 05:09 PM
I started out with a build that was rogue into arcane archer and ended up with something that was much more gish-like when I got 12 levels of transmuter and arcane trickster on her. The character has her limits, but what she's good at, she's good at- namely, using her spells to get sneak attack, every attack, with magical effects that are deadly in themselves. This is how I did 472 damage in one round. Transmutation specialty is where it's at.

They're really, REALLY fun to play in a party where you're a fifth+ character. The party Peri's in started already having a warmage, a paladin, and a thief-acrobat, but having someone who could take point on magic-user/damage-dealer/skillmonkey made everyones' lives a lot easier. If she was being just the skillmonkey or just the magic-user, she'd probably be inadequate.

Autopsibiofeeder
2009-07-14, 05:38 PM
As many have pointed out, it is clear where 'gish' comes from, what it initially meant and how the concept has been broadened over time by gamers to mean anything that has magic and martial arts combined in most conversations these days.

I would like to point to my favourite way to build a gish (not way to interpret the term, mind you). Most people mention using (arcane) magic to enhance combat ability, but I prefer to rely on the the martial part of the build for combat and use the magic part to add flavour and out-of-combat options. My gishes tend to end up using spells like Unseen servant, Feather fall, Whispering wind, Phantom steed, Tongues, Leomund's secure shelter, Major creation etcetera to add extra's to the 'I charge and damage stuff' part of a fighter. I don't know, that just appeals to me more...does anyone else share that feel?

Doc Roc
2009-07-15, 01:32 AM
Using an obscure githyanki-specific term to refer to fighter/mages in general really irritates me. It's inaccurate and pointlessly obfuscatory.

Geeeee golly! That's some mighty thick bile you have sloshing around in there.

For many of us, Planescape was and will be our favorite setting, and githyanki are a part of that. Our use of gish is a call-back to a slightly obscure piece of flavor nestled in an out-of-print setting by a book that predates it...

And that piece of fluff that struck a chord with our imaginations. Left us with a longing to lift sword and don helmet to do battle by spell and blade in the silver sea. Gish is our work, our thoughts, our articulation of an idea that we love. Why would you begrudge the CO community a bit of whimsy in our naming conventions?


Here, naturally, is one of my (personally laid out) favorite gish builds. High Cheese on the High Seas ahead!


Alexa Thomburst
"Tell Them, Still Angry"
Aasimar (LA buy-off), Neutral Evil

Alexa spent most of her early life in the war-torn reaches of Acheron, unable to escape, compelled by her very blood to continue fighting. Her mother was killed at a tremendously early age, and the battalion that her father belong to was wiped out moments thereafter. Alexa hid in the iron rubble of the torn cube, waiting, silent, afraid, in fact fundamentally terrified. This would be her home, as she scavenged and struggled for the next twenty eight years, holding her little patch of ground like you or I might cling to the last life boat. Unable to escape Acheron, unwilling to trust any travelers, Alexa suffered immensely, often starving for a week or more between meals. She came, with some rapidity, to hate her blood and the font in the heavens where it sprang from and to worship the conflict she was confined by. Her ultimate escape to Faerun was almost completely accidental, in fact, and almost reluctant.

Your background here? This is a woman who literally doesn't understand the idea of bounty or surplus, and remains confused by it. She's not going to hurt you unless you try to take what's hers, be it a sword, a friend, or an apple.


Bard 4-> Sanctum Spell -> Eldritch Knight 4 -> Ur Priest 2/Sublime Chord 1/ Foc Lyrist 9
3+4+1+9 = 17 BAB
3rd level Bardic Casting, Double Nines, 17 BAB. Decent, I guess. :S
Bind Impulse boots using Open Least Chakra for evasion. This is a weakness in the build as it stands, and you'll need to firm it up as soon as you possibly can.
Torture a druid for druidic language.

Milskidasith
2009-07-15, 02:16 AM
My DM would probably not like me to be using a powerful Holy Word combo; he's already expressed concern that my plans for DMM: Persisting spells is going to be OP and that I should check with him before using certain buffs (though I'm also looking at caster level bonuses so I don't get dispelled as easily.)

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-15, 07:58 AM
For many of us, Planescape was and will be our favorite setting, and githyanki are a part of that. Our use of gish is a call-back to a slightly obscure piece of flavor nestled in an out-of-print setting by a book that predates it...

And that piece of fluff that struck a chord with our imaginations. Left us with a longing to lift sword and don helmet to do battle by spell and blade in the silver sea. Gish is our work, our thoughts, our articulation of an idea that we love. Why would you begrudge the CO community a bit of whimsy in our naming conventions?

*sniff* That was beautiful. Preach it, brother! (Unless you're an Athar, of course, in which case no offense intended. :smallwink:)

Doc Roc
2009-07-15, 11:38 AM
I'm a Godsman, of course. I'm TO guy, remember? All TO Guys are Godsmen or ring-givers.
Excluding Tsuyo, who was a Dusty, I think. And T_G might be an Athar these days. :)

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-15, 11:57 AM
I'm a Godsman, of course. I'm TO guy, remember? All TO Guys are Godsmen or ring-givers.
Excluding Tsuyo, who was a Dusty, I think. And T_G might be an Athar these days. :)

Good point. Tsuyo didn't strike me as one of those guys, but it takes all kinds, I suppose.

only1doug
2009-07-15, 12:55 PM
Geeeee golly! That's some mighty thick bile you have sloshing around in there.

For many of us, Planescape was and will be our favorite setting, and githyanki are a part of that. Our use of gish is a call-back to a slightly obscure piece of flavor nestled in an out-of-print setting by a book that predates it...

And that piece of fluff that struck a chord with our imaginations. Left us with a longing to lift sword and don helmet to do battle by spell and blade in the silver sea. Gish is our work, our thoughts, our articulation of an idea that we love. Why would you begrudge the CO community a bit of whimsy in our naming conventions?


Here, naturally, is one of my (personally laid out) favorite gish builds. High Cheese on the High Seas ahead!


Alexa Thomburst
"Tell Them, Still Angry"
Aasimar (LA buy-off), Neutral Evil

Alexa spent most of her early life in the war-torn reaches of Acheron, unable to escape, compelled by her very blood to continue fighting. Her mother was killed at a tremendously early age, and the battalion that her father belong to was wiped out moments thereafter. Alexa hid in the iron rubble of the torn cube, waiting, silent, afraid, in fact fundamentally terrified. This would be her home, as she scavenged and struggled for the next twenty eight years, holding her little patch of ground like you or I might cling to the last life boat. Unable to escape Acheron, unwilling to trust any travelers, Alexa suffered immensely, often starving for a week or more between meals. She came, with some rapidity, to hate her blood and the font in the heavens where it sprang from and to worship the conflict she was confined by. Her ultimate escape to Faerun was almost completely accidental, in fact, and almost reluctant.

Your background here? This is a woman who literally doesn't understand the idea of bounty or surplus, and remains confused by it. She's not going to hurt you unless you try to take what's hers, be it a sword, a friend, or an apple.


Bard 4-> Sanctum Spell -> Eldritch Knight 4 -> Ur Priest 2/Sublime Chord 1/ Foc Lyrist 9
3+4+1+9 = 17 BAB
3rd level Bardic Casting, Double Nines, 17 BAB. Decent, I guess. :S
Bind Impulse boots using Open Least Chakra for evasion. This is a weakness in the build as it stands, and you'll need to firm it up as soon as you possibly can.
Torture a druid for druidic language.


I Hadn't really encountered the term Gish until I started reading these forums, the first time I came across it I looked it up in the Acronyms, Abbreviations and terms thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18512). Then I knew what it meant and didn't worry about its origins.