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MarvisSahad
2009-07-13, 04:12 PM
Hey everyone. I have a psion nomad with great knowledge in Geography and was wondering what you all would think if I put skill points in Craft: Cartography. I figure it would be profitable (just like any other Craft skill listed) and that I would get a synergy bonus from the DM, but when it comes to non-monetary usefulness to the group, is it worth the skill points? I figure there are situations where a map would be very handy and lucrative (such as mapping the path to a dragon's cave we found for a King), but seeing how that I already have great knowledge of Geography, would Cartography be redundant when it comes to giving directions?

Yora
2009-07-13, 04:15 PM
Craft (cartography) would be a crafting still to draw maps. Having a map would help you with making Knowledge (geography) or other checks to find your way, where the map is useable. Having a high rank in geography probably would make your maps even better, so I'd give a synergy bonus for both ways.

To make maps actually useful, you could make it that having a map of the area gives a bonus to Surival checks to avoid getting lost, or to Search checks to find hidden treasures. You may also alow characters who have a map, to make a DC 15 or higher check (I guess in knowledge (geography)), to reduce the travel times for overland movement, as you can make out shortcuts and avoid having to turn back after a wrong turn. On a well paved and straight road, normal people can cover much greater distances than assumed by the list in the PHB and SRD. But these list assume that you have to use paths or roads that don't lead directly to your destination but involve lots of large curves, to connect small outlying villages. So using a good map should make it possible to reduce the travel time, without actually moving faster.

woodenbandman
2009-07-13, 04:15 PM
You could use it to scout out dangerous areas and then sell the maps, but that's about it really.

I think Forgery would probably be applicable to this. I don't think it specifies how inaccurate your forgery has to be. You could just get the minimum possible result to portray the area exactly as it is.

Alejandro
2009-07-13, 04:17 PM
If the campaign is set in the Renaissance Age of Sail, you could make a fortune, as did several real world individuals of that time period. Maybe you could even get two continents named after you, even if you also make extremely hilarious mistakes and fill most of the map with pictures of monsters.

Sinfire Titan
2009-07-13, 04:27 PM
If the DM is capable of drawing regional maps fairly quickly or giving you detailed overviews of the surrounding area, you have a legitimate reason to take the skill and put his knowledge to good use. Otherwise, don't bother.

Person_Man
2009-07-13, 04:45 PM
If someone bothers to take the pretty much useless Skill of Knowledge (Geography), I would just give them an equal number of ranks in Craft (Cartography) as well. Reward roleplaying, ignore pointless crunch.

Anxe
2009-07-13, 05:26 PM
You can say that your character is mapping out the dungeon and then not necessarily have to do the physical action yourself. Then you can just tell your DM that you follow the map out.

Ninetail
2009-07-13, 05:43 PM
I would say Knowledge (geography) includes Craft (cartography), provided that the character is literate.

It's a tiny, tiny little area, too small to need two skills to cover it.

If someone really wanted to spend the points on Craft, I suppose I'd allow it. 5 ranks would give synergy bonuses to:

Knowledge (architecture and engineering) -- because it helps in surveying
Knowledge (dungeoneering)
Knowledge (geography)
Profession (cartographer)
Survival -- checks to find shelter or avoid getting lost

It would gain synergy bonuses from the knowledge skills and the profession. (Although personally, I'd roll the profession into the knowledge skill, too.)

MarvisSahad
2009-07-13, 05:50 PM
Yora: Great ideas! I didn't think about search checks before with regards to maps, but since we do have a rogue in our group I'm sure he'd benefit from a mapped dungeon should he feel it necessary to search some areas he overlooked. Come to think of it, I'm sure this would translate to an easier time finding secret doors as well. I had an inkling that cartography was more useful than I thought. Thank you!

Woodenbandman: True enough. Maps are not always very valuable.

Alexandro: LOL. I'll name this land Lesser Marvisonia! What an awesome awesome idea!

Sinfire Titan: Well, since I'm a psion nomad in this campaign, being able to get overviews of areas would be no problem. ;)

Person_Man: Well, I disagree that geography is going to be useless with a character like mine, but I wouldn't mind making Knowledge Geography equal to Craft Cartography. The question with that would be whether it is munchkiny, and whether it sets a bad precedent for other Knowledge skills.

Anxe: I was thinking the same thing. I figure that it might be useful for mapping out, say, a maze with a high degree of accuracy without getting lost (then, of course, sell it to whomever wants to pass :smallbiggrin: ). The one caveat, however, is that it takes time to craft ANYTHING; my character would be distracted with her feather-pen and paper to watch out for traps, listening, etc, while dungeon-delving for example.

MarvisSahad
2009-07-13, 05:57 PM
I would say Knowledge (geography) includes Craft (cartography), provided that the character is literate.

It's a tiny, tiny little area, too small to need two skills to cover it.

If someone really wanted to spend the points on Craft, I suppose I'd allow it. 5 ranks would give synergy bonuses to:

Knowledge (architecture and engineering) -- because it helps in surveying
Knowledge (dungeoneering)
Knowledge (geography)
Profession (cartographer)
Survival -- checks to find shelter or avoid getting lost

It would gain synergy bonuses from the knowledge skills and the profession. (Although personally, I'd roll the profession into the knowledge skill, too.)

I'll pass these suggestions to my DM. I'm starting to think Cartography is an underrated skill in D&D, even though there are whole websites devoted to making maps for this game!