PDA

View Full Version : Best gestalt combo for a Vow of Poverty monk?



Woodsman
2009-07-13, 04:31 PM
The idea of a gestalt Exalted campaign is an idea I've had for a while now (I'll probably end up looking a DM and other players soon), a I'd like to play a Vow of Poverty monk. The question is, what other base class should form the other side?

Any base class is fine, but no Eberron or Forgotten Realms. I don't have those books.

Yuki Akuma
2009-07-13, 04:33 PM
...Hm.

Well, I would say Druid, but the alignment restrictions don't mesh. Swordsage or Warblade, maybe?

Leaning towards Swordsage, as Shadow Hand has a few stances that overcome some of the problems with the Vow of Poverty.

Xenogears
2009-07-13, 04:33 PM
Id say cleric. Good synergy with wisdom and enough self buffs to make you an insane tank. Plus it fits good with the fluff of religios warrior that monk has going.

Sinfire Titan
2009-07-13, 04:34 PM
Totemist. Hands down.

Yuki Akuma
2009-07-13, 04:35 PM
Id say cleric. Good synergy with wisdom and enough self buffs to make you an insane tank. Plus it fits good with the fluff of religios warrior that monk has going.

The Monk has a "religious warrior" flavour?

Xenogears
2009-07-13, 04:39 PM
The Monk has a "religious warrior" flavour?

Well when I think monk i think religion (Either christian monks or Hindu, Buddhist, etc.) and they are all semi-warrior types. So yes yes they do.

Edit: By all i meant DnD monks.

erikun
2009-07-13, 04:43 PM
You could play a LN Monk//Druid. You're kind of boxed in with alignment, but it could work out. You know, if your DM doesn't mind Earth Elementals with Fast Movement and Slow Fall. Or Dire Bears with Evasion. Or a Hydra that can Flurry.

Plus, since you replace Str/Dex with your new form, you really only need Wis! And maybe some Con, at that.

While I'm not familiar with the class, I think Factorium will allow you to substitute Int for attacks, damage, and AC. Grants you access to a bunch of skills, too.

A Fighter/Kensai might work, if you work on enchanting your fists. Soulknife might be amusing, since your mindblade doesn't cost anything.

woodenbandman
2009-07-13, 04:45 PM
I say Ardent. Expanded Knowledge expansion, get your Force Screen, Grip of Iron, what the heck ever, and grapple people for hundreds of nonlethal damage. Ardent mainly for 9th level powers and wisdom synergy. Carmedine Monk + Egoist might work better, especially at high levels when Greater Metamorphosis comes into play. You could even take Metamorphic Transfer.

quick_comment
2009-07-13, 04:47 PM
I think the best Gestalt VoP combo is Druid//Totemist. If you really want monk, then substitute either side of that with unarmed swordsage.

The Rose Dragon
2009-07-13, 04:52 PM
You could play a LN Monk//Druid.

What part of Exalted was too hard to understand? :smalltongue:

He has to be LG if he wants to play an Exalted monk.

Yuki Akuma
2009-07-13, 04:53 PM
Well when I think monk i think religion (Either christian monks or Hindu, Buddhist, etc.) and they are all semi-warrior types. So yes yes they do.

Edit: By all i meant DnD monks.

So you're saying they have "religious warrior" flavour because that's what you think when you think "monk"?

... Okay.

fractal
2009-07-13, 05:03 PM
Well, I'd say you either want full spellcasting or full BAB.

Cleric, Druid, or Sorcerer (with Ascetic Mage, the feat that lets you use Charisma for AC) are probably the best choices for the former. You would have to make sure that your holy symbol wasn't a VoP issue.

I don't have the most recent books, but Fighter might be a decent choice for feats. Alternatively, you already have the alignment needed for Paladin, although your MAD will get even worse. Maybe four levels of Sorcerer in order to take advantage of the aforementioned feat?

So a final build might look like (Monk 20)+(Sorcerer 4/Paladin 16). Max Charisma, Dex, and Con, and take feats like Weapon Finesse and Divine Might. Or you could try something sillier with PrCs.

Woodsman
2009-07-13, 05:07 PM
Wow, you people have thrown me.

I said VoP monk. If I want the best for VoP, I'll ask for that.

Honestly, swordsage or soulknife seems pretty cool. Incarnum is not something I'll readily delve into, and druids haven't really appealed to me. I'd rather not substitute monk with swordsage, either; it doesn't fit the same with the flavor I want.

TSED
2009-07-13, 05:07 PM
So you're saying they have "religious warrior" flavour because that's what you think when you think "monk"?

... Okay.

I see it too.

Especially with a vow. Any vow.


Monks were either friars or persons who devoted their body to religious ideals. Just because in D&D they're "martial artist, the end" doesn't mean that flavour doesn't spill out anyways.


EDIT:: As to the topic, I am thinking cleric may be your best bet. But only if you can get the symbol to not count against your vow.

Lorien077
2009-07-13, 05:08 PM
I second the cleric/monk combo. Just be sure to keep track of your buffs since you won't have the items to back you up. Also is this a high or low level game? VoP hurts more at high levels from what I've observed.

And go easy Yuki Akuma, it is one possible interpretation and character concept. >_<

Starscream
2009-07-13, 05:12 PM
I agree with Cleric. Your Wisdom bonus is likely to be high, which will make up for not wearing armor, and your buffs can turn you into a combat machine (and will stack with the VoP bonuses).

Only downside I see is that most monks use charisma as a dump stat. It's not the most important stat for clerics, but your undead turning will be weak without it.

Are VoP characters allowed to carry a holy symbol? I know a specific exception is made for spell component pouches. I doubt many DMs will make an issue of it.

Woodsman
2009-07-13, 05:13 PM
Definitely mid-high level. Part of the reason I took it.

Gralamin
2009-07-13, 05:14 PM
Wow, you people have thrown me.

I said VoP monk. If I want the best for VoP, I'll ask for that.

Honestly, swordsage or soulknife seems pretty cool. Incarnum is not something I'll readily delve into, and druids haven't really appealed to me. I'd rather not substitute monk with swordsage, either; it doesn't fit the same with the flavor I want.

Monks have the bonus of giving a lot of passive abilities. So, you want something that uses Wisdom or Physical stats, and has a good amount of active abilities. Cleric, and Psychic Warrior are two of the best in this department.

Jack_Simth
2009-07-13, 05:20 PM
EDIT:: As to the topic, I am thinking cleric may be your best bet. But only if you can get the symbol to not count against your vow.Or if you can get the Worldly Focus feat from Faiths of Eberron.


Are VoP characters allowed to carry a holy symbol? I know a specific exception is made for spell component pouches. I doubt many DMs will make an issue of it.Exactly as writtten? No, they're not allowed to carry a holy symbol. That is, however, stupid, and most DM's will ignore that aspect (as well as a few other bits - technically, a Vow of Poverty ascetic isn't permitted to open a door by way of the doorknob...).

Anxe
2009-07-13, 05:21 PM
Paladin is too awful to consider?

Jack_Simth
2009-07-13, 05:25 PM
Paladin is too awful to consider?
Paladin goes great with a Wilder, Sorcerer, or other charisma-based caster (and a Monk-2/Paladin-X//Sorcerer-Y/Full Arcane Advancement PrC combo of choice-Z) goes very, very well with the Ascetic Mage feat from Complete Adventurer (especially if you pick up Wish at 18th or so and Wish yourself up some inherent bonuses to Charisma).

It doesn't go well with Monk, though, as you're compounding the Monk's MAD-ness.

Yukitsu
2009-07-13, 05:31 PM
I'd got with any class that makes up for a lack of items. So things like fly, teleport, some ranged abilities bypassing DR and more importantly regenerate. Those are the major ones, usually.

Anxe
2009-07-13, 05:35 PM
Wait a minute... Wouldn't the Champion class on this very site work well with VoP Monk? It's got the same problem as Paladin in that you need CHA to make it super, but one feat of Extend Hero Form would make that problem a thing of the past.

Vaynor
2009-07-13, 05:44 PM
Totemist. Hands down.

Wow that's a really good idea, you get gear that isn't gear!

Korivan
2009-07-13, 05:51 PM
Not sure what the totemist is...but I've always liked the idea of fighter/monk with VOP. The fighter aspect gives you better BAB, better hit dice, and a ton of feats to invest in unarmed damage and TWF.

Yuki Akuma
2009-07-13, 05:54 PM
Not sure what the totemist is...but I've always liked the idea of fighter/monk with VOP. The fighter aspect gives you better BAB, better hit dice, and a ton of feats to invest in unarmed damage and TWF.

...He also loses against an eagle.

Eldariel
2009-07-13, 06:05 PM
Cleric is probably the way to go; fits the flavour and hits you right where you need a boost. Wizard or Sorcerer are also viable alternatives; easy to think of a Sorcerer gifted his arcane powers by a divine patron, or a Wizard inspired by Clerics' deeds to study magic.

Just get spellcasting so you don't become useless the second you run into flyers/ghost/whatever. Being useless sucks, don't do it. Swordsage is a good companion and Unarmed Swordsage indeed has the exact same fluff as Monk. But yeah, Monk works out just fine with caster on the other side.

wizuriel
2009-07-13, 06:12 PM
would also recommend the totemist. Its from Magic of Incarnum. In a nutshell you get these buff like things that look and act like magic equipment. Can give yourself some insane natural attacks and stuff which would go so nicely with monk.

Zaq
2009-07-13, 06:13 PM
I know you said you won't "readily delve" into it, but I recommend you take a second look at Incarnum. Real shame that you HAVE to be LG. Incarnate would be a great choice, but the alignments clash. Totemist, though, is one of the best classes for VoP to begin with, since Soulmelds almost make up for the loss of magic items, and it fits with a monk very nicely. Plus, they rock on their own.

Whatever class you take, make sure that you have a way to fly, ideally a way to teleport (maybe too tall of an order, but...), and a way to see or reveal invisible things. Pretty much any full caster will cover those bases (Ardent would be a good choice, and while a PsyWar isn't a FULL full caster, it's close enough). A Wisdom focus is, of course, ideal.

A swordsage wouldn't be a bad idea, though their mobility abilities other than Shadow Jaunt come a little bit late. Are there any other Vows you're taking?

MarvisSahad
2009-07-13, 06:28 PM
Would a VoP monk/psionic-fist make sense? You'll still level as a monk with respect to damage bonuses, unarmed AC and speed while getting a decent assortment of psychic-warrior powers to back you up. Check out claws-of-the beast and the related upper-level powers. :smallcool:

AstralFire
2009-07-13, 06:33 PM
If would really recommend rethinking the Unarmed Swordsage - if you don't, the halfway viable solutions all seem to revolve around being a full caster, shapeshifting major portions of your body (which I've always thought is not a very universally applicable thing as combat aesthetics go), or totemists. UA Swordsage opens up decent options with a lot of things, on the other hand, since you won't be depending on your second class to make absolutely sure you have any ability to deal with unorthodox enemies.

AmberVael
2009-07-13, 06:34 PM
...He also loses against an eagle.

:smallsigh:
Give it some credit. An eagle only has 5hp and melee attacks. Doesn't matter if it can fly, it has to come down to attack him, and it doesn't have reach or flyby attack (and even if it did, there are still readied actions to be considered).

There's also this thing called a bow. If you're a fighter- even a fighter with every feat invested in TWF and Unarmed strikes and stuff- you can use a bow.

Now, the character WOULD lose against any flying person with ranged capability and halfway decent protection, that I will grant.

SilveryCord
2009-07-13, 06:40 PM
...If you're set on vow of poverty (which you shouldn't be since VoP sucks), the only real option is Totemist from Magic of Incarnum.

Woodsman
2009-07-13, 06:41 PM
There's a reason I'm not doing it alone, though.

I'll take a second look at totemist. Incarnum has always ben kind of iffy with me, but I gave BoED a second chance. I'll look at it. I've heard from a reliable friend that they're the best incarnum classes.

Paladin is an attractive option, but I don't feel it fits with me. It's the mount, namely, even though there are variants to exchange that mount *coughDungeonscapecough*.

Fighter was an idea, too. I've had a friend (the same one with totemist) tell me fighters can do a monk's job really well, actually, so I'll look into it.

AmberVael
2009-07-13, 06:46 PM
There's a reason I'm not doing it alone, though.

I'll take a second look at totemist. Incarnum has always ben kind of iffy with me, but I gave BoED a second chance. I'll look at it. I've heard from a reliable friend that they're the best incarnum classes.

Paladin is an attractive option, but I don't feel it fits with me. It's the mount, namely, even though there are variants to exchange that mount *coughDungeonscapecough*.

Fighter was an idea, too. I've had a friend (the same one with totemist) tell me fighters can do a monk's job really well, actually, so I'll look into it.

With a vow of poverty monk, I would definitely avoid Paladin or Fighter. As people have rightly stated, the loss of magic items greatly impacts your versatility and capabilities, and neither Paladin or Fighter will be able to restore those.

Cleric, Psychic Warrior, the Incarnum classes- these can help restore those abilities to you, and add some of the power that an itemless monk will be lacking.

Woodsman
2009-07-13, 06:47 PM
Looking at the totemist class in detail tells me, "Hot damn, this fits me really well!" So I'll go with your suggestion and take Totemist. It works very well flavor-wise, in my opinion. I should trust you guys more. :smalltongue:

So, I'll be going Totemist on this. Thank you all for the advice.

The Glyphstone
2009-07-13, 07:14 PM
:smallsigh:
Give it some credit. An eagle only has 5hp and melee attacks. Doesn't matter if it can fly, it has to come down to attack him, and it doesn't have reach or flyby attack (and even if it did, there are still readied actions to be considered).

There's also this thing called a bow. If you're a fighter- even a fighter with every feat invested in TWF and Unarmed strikes and stuff- you can use a bow.

Now, the character WOULD lose against any flying person with ranged capability and halfway decent protection, that I will grant.

Wouldn't owning a bow break your Vow, though?

Vaynor
2009-07-13, 07:15 PM
:smallsigh:
Give it some credit. An eagle only has 5hp and melee attacks. Doesn't matter if it can fly, it has to come down to attack him, and it doesn't have reach or flyby attack (and even if it did, there are still readied actions to be considered).

There's also this thing called a bow. If you're a fighter- even a fighter with every feat invested in TWF and Unarmed strikes and stuff- you can use a bow.

Now, the character WOULD lose against any flying person with ranged capability and halfway decent protection, that I will grant.

No, no you can't use a bow. Using a bow would break your VoP...

Ninja'd!

Emong
2009-07-13, 07:20 PM
Just take the feat 'Ringing the Golden Bell' from the Dragon Compendium, it'll let you make ranged attacks with your unarmed strike.

Woodsman
2009-07-13, 07:25 PM
Yeah, that feat would help.

Vaynor
2009-07-13, 07:38 PM
Or a necklace of natural attacks, you could just enchant your fists with throwing and returning. :smallbiggrin:

Woodsman
2009-07-13, 07:43 PM
Or a necklace of natural attacks, you could just enchant your fists with throwing and returning. :smallbiggrin:

Now, now, I'm not going into cheese.

Emong
2009-07-13, 07:45 PM
To be fair I'm fairly certain that there's a Wizards article on the website that uses that as an example of what you can to with one of those amulets.

Berserk Monk
2009-07-13, 07:49 PM
I'd go either fighter (for the fighter bonus feats), cleric (for the divine spells), or sorcerer (for the arcane feats).

Vaynor
2009-07-13, 07:52 PM
To be fair I'm fairly certain that there's a Wizards article on the website that uses that as an example of what you can to with one of those amulets.

Actually, that's the example given in the book (+1 throwing returning necklace of natural weapons).

Jack_Simth
2009-07-13, 07:55 PM
:smallsigh:
Give it some credit. An eagle only has 5hp and melee attacks. Doesn't matter if it can fly, it has to come down to attack him, and it doesn't have reach or flyby attack (and even if it did, there are still readied actions to be considered).

There's also this thing called a bow. If you're a fighter- even a fighter with every feat invested in TWF and Unarmed strikes and stuff- you can use a bow.

Now, the character WOULD lose against any flying person with ranged capability and halfway decent protection, that I will grant.
Unfortunately, Vow of Poverty requires simple weapons only. So that's a crossbow, or a sling and stone, or a few thrown weapons (and do note that the sling or thrown weapons aren't nearly so ineffective against Wind Wall as is the crossbow).

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-07-13, 07:59 PM
Actually, that's the example given in the book (+1 throwing returning necklace of natural weapons).

And then you face an opponent with the snatch arrows feat or gloves of arrow snatching...

Woodsman
2009-07-13, 08:02 PM
Well, I was wondering if the azurin race would work.

It's human, replacing extra skill points with an extra essentia point. The lack of skill points can be made up with Nymph's Kiss as a Vow of Poverty Exalted feat. it won't fully replace them, but it's still a good idea (in my opinion).

Gadora
2009-07-13, 08:03 PM
Just take the feat 'Ringing the Golden Bell' from the Dragon Compendium, it'll let you make ranged attacks with your unarmed strike.

Or take Ki Blast from Player's Handbook 2. It takes a slightly higher level, but has a better range increment, is a force effect, and is a ranged touch attack. Unfortunately, it is limited by the number of times you can use Stunning Fist, but I'd think that the ability to affect incorporeal opponents is hard to come by for a VOP character.

Faleldir
2009-07-13, 08:14 PM
So that's a crossbow, or a sling and stone, or a few thrown weapons.
And by RAW you aren't allowed to own any ammunition. You must load a sling with the infinite contents of your component pouch.

Woodsman
2009-07-13, 08:22 PM
Well, there are various ways I was planning on dealing with the problems presented here.

For incorporeal creatures, I was going to take the Monkey shen prestige class. That gives me a form allowing me to treat incorporeal creatures as corporeal for a while.

For flying, I was thinking of maybe taking the half-celestial template. The feats here (Ring the Golden Bell, Ki Blast) are good, but hand-to-hand in the air seems cool, too.

AstralFire
2009-07-13, 08:25 PM
If you want to fly, just take the Winged Template. Or be a Raptoran and grab Improved Flight.

Woodsman
2009-07-13, 08:28 PM
The Winged template works well, thank you. Even though I become a monstrous humanoid.

Jack_Simth
2009-07-13, 08:28 PM
And by RAW you aren't allowed to own any ammunition. You must load a sling with the infinite contents of your component pouch.
Ah, but you can use sling bullets, as the bullets are listed under the simple weapons table. Just, you know, not rocks. You can't improvise weapons, either.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-07-13, 08:48 PM
Too bad alignment restrictions bar you from Warlock, as it would have solved both the RTA and Flight problems quite handily.

Honestly, when working with Gestalt, the question is: Which class offers me the MOST when combined with this class". Fighter//Monk... is almost as effective as most single classes are. Wow. All it gives you is full BAB, higher HD, and some feats. In other words, about where it should have been to begin with.

So you are looking for something to augment your current abilities. Currently, as a monk, you can hit with your fists... and that's about it. VoP gives some nifty abilities, but doesn't give you flight. You *CAN* hit Incorporeal creatures, because your unarmed attacks count as magic, although you'd still have the 50% miss chance.

If you go Totemist, look at the Manticore Belt. I believe it grants RTA and Flight. And it's a class ability, not a magic item, so it won't break your VoP.

If you are wanting to do the whole 'hit fast, and fade away' thing, you may wish to consider Rogue. Precision-based damage + Flurry = lots of fun. You would still be weak against creatures who are able to keep you away from them.

PsiWar is a good choice because it gives you Psionic Lion's Pounce, which lets you use your Flurry MUCH more often. It also gives you some survivability, and ways to deal with ranged combatants.

Cleric is good, because again, it lets you effectively deal with opponents who can stay out of your melee range, and provides huge benefits all around.

Glimbur
2009-07-13, 10:20 PM
Totemist will let you fly as soon as you get a Shoulder bind. Actually, you can fly from level 2, but you have to end each turn on the ground or fall.

As a shameless plug, you should go check out my homebrewed soulmelds. They're stronger than the stock ones but should be balanced for Tier 3.

Leewei
2009-07-13, 10:51 PM
Some ideas for monk gestalts:

Sneak Attack Fighter variant (full BAB, flurry of Sneak Attack options)

Bump Charisma up a touch and work up Sorceror followed by Dragon Disciple PrC.

Heck, for that matter, consider using the gestalt levels to buy up Half Celestial template. The stats are nice and you get flight.

Pious Templar PrC fits very nicely with Cleric. You'd get Weapon Spec (consider using a god or power with Unarmed Strike as their chosen weapon). Also, Mettle is a great class feature for your strong Fort and Will saves.

Jayngfet
2009-07-13, 10:53 PM
I'm thinking either duskblade or paladin. With paladin just grab Asetic knight and suddenly you're unarmed strike is as powerful as someone twice your level and you can add smiting damage. With duskblade and the asetic mage feat you're AC will feel a lot better and arcane channeling, quicken spell, and sacrificing spell slots means that you get an extra attack per round once per day(a spell) and you get to sacrifice a spell slot for an attack bonus and add touch spell attack to your unarmed strike.

Starscream
2009-07-13, 11:35 PM
And by RAW you aren't allowed to own any ammunition. You must load a sling with the infinite contents of your component pouch.

Hey, I wouldn't want to get hit in the face with bat guano.

Myrmex
2009-07-14, 12:01 AM
I'm thinking either duskblade or paladin. With paladin just grab Asetic knight and suddenly you're unarmed strike is as powerful as someone twice your level and you can add smiting damage. With duskblade and the asetic mage feat you're AC will feel a lot better and arcane channeling, quicken spell, and sacrificing spell slots means that you get an extra attack per round once per day(a spell) and you get to sacrifice a spell slot for an attack bonus and add touch spell attack to your unarmed strike.

Duskblades use int, not cha for their spells. You need Kung-Fu Genius, from a Dragon magazine, to switch wis to int for monk purposes.

Haven
2009-07-14, 12:08 AM
Paladin/Monk could be workable if you take Serenity, the feat that switches your CHA to Wis for purposes of Paladin class features.

Talic
2009-07-14, 12:25 AM
I'ma chime in with Psychic Warrior / Monk.

Both are martial classes, presumably designed for close combat.

Both have similar stat benefits (Wisdom, Dex, Str, Con).

From First level, there are powers to make you larger, to increase grapple, provide you with armor bonuses, concealment, hiding bonuses...

Basically, everything the monk does.

Kaiyanwang
2009-07-14, 02:02 AM
Flavour-wise, two things come in my mind:

- Monk // Cloistered Cleric (see it in variant classes in SRD)

- Monk // Wu Jen with kung fu genius (a feat in Dragon Magazine allowing you to use int in place of Wis for monk abilities).

I see the former like a wandering religious man, and the latter like a knowledgeable hermit.

Cleric spells are great buffs, I think that the former character would be almost unkilllable. The latter would be a kung fu master throwing fireballs and being able to assume a colossal form at high levels.

Hope can be useful for the kind of campaing played.

Talic
2009-07-14, 02:12 AM
Until you realize that any spell requiring a holy symbol, or any component at all, kinda breaks you.

Kaiyanwang
2009-07-14, 02:18 AM
Until you realize that any spell requiring a holy symbol, or any component at all, kinda breaks you.

IIRC, there are holy symbols in dungeonscalpe that can be placed on armors and shields, so you could ask the DM to place them, say, on your bracers of armour.

Even the Eschew Material feats could be useful. If all above does not work, pick up spell that does not have component.

Just examples.

Myrmex
2009-07-14, 02:54 AM
A tattoo or birthmark of a holy symbol would get around the need for a holy symbol.

Also, it would be an awesome way to turn the undead.

*Party encounters some undead.*
Monk//Cleric: "Don't worry, I've got this"
*starts unbuttoning pants*
Party: "Why are you removing your pants!?"
Monk//Cleric: "This only works when I expose my holy symbol!"

Talic
2009-07-14, 03:15 AM
IIRC, there are holy symbols in dungeonscalpe that can be placed on armors and shields, so you could ask the DM to place them, say, on your bracers of armour.

Even the Eschew Material feats could be useful. If all above does not work, pick up spell that does not have component.

Just examples.

You mean, the Bracers of Armor that completely destroy the VoP?

Those Bracers?

And most divine spells require a holy symbol focus. Hence why Psywar is good.

Also, Kung Fu Genius Monk and Psion.

Kaiyanwang
2009-07-14, 04:40 AM
You mean, the Bracers of Armor that completely destroy the VoP?

Those Bracers?

And most divine spells require a holy symbol focus. Hence why Psywar is good.

Also, Kung Fu Genius Monk and Psion.

:smallconfused: was thinking about mundane bracers*, with no value, just a way to bear the symbol, but I see your point. Better the tatoo, if the DM allows it, see above.

BTW, psionic + monk has a good flavour, anyway. Depends from player tastes.


*I should not have said armor :smallredface:

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-07-14, 04:53 AM
I'll agree that Psychic Warrior/Monk would be a superb choice for a grappler, or a Psion/Monk with Kung Fu Genius (http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Feats.pdf) (page 79) using Expanded Knowledge to get Expansion and Grip of Iron. You could also take the feats Aberration Blood: Flexible Limbs, Inhuman Reach, and Deepspawn from Lords of Madness to further boost your grappling abilities, and say he's in a constant struggle to contain the evil within him.

Wings of Peace
2009-07-14, 05:25 AM
Kungu Genius coupled with Academic Priest will solve any and all problems in life is my personal stance. Will saves are reasonably easy to boost (Or turn into a moot concern) with magic and skill points are always tasty. Personally I'd take the factotum direction and lots of fonts of inspiration. I'd be interested to see you mix Factotum and Iaijutsu Master together on one side for a grand total of triple INT to armor class. Don't forget to get 2 levels of Bayushi Deciever for some INT to initiative action as well. I wonder how far the INT themed poverty monk could be taken...:smallsmile:

Edit: Forget Bayushi Deciever. Forgot it doesnt allow for lawful aligment.

aarondirebear
2009-07-16, 12:41 PM
I agree with Cleric. Your Wisdom bonus is likely to be high, which will make up for not wearing armor, and your buffs can turn you into a combat machine (and will stack with the VoP bonuses).

Only downside I see is that most monks use charisma as a dump stat. It's not the most important stat for clerics, but your undead turning will be weak without it.

Are VoP characters allowed to carry a holy symbol? I know a specific exception is made for spell component pouches. I doubt many DMs will make an issue of it.

The Most fallacy.

Indon
2009-07-16, 01:00 PM
A tattoo or birthmark of a holy symbol would get around the need for a holy symbol.

Also, it would be an awesome way to turn the undead.

*Party encounters some undead.*
Monk//Cleric: "Don't worry, I've got this"
*starts unbuttoning pants*
Party: "Why are you removing your pants!?"
Monk//Cleric: "This only works when I expose my holy symbol!"

Sear/brand the holy symbol onto your chest, walk around shirtless.

There's hardcore for you.

theMycon
2009-07-16, 03:53 PM
I like either the Cleric W/Travel domain ideas- You can fly, have synergy in your main stat, and it fits with the religious aspect of a historical monk. Plus, you get the important buffs- already covered.

OR Psy-war: You get most of the buffs a cleric does, and it emphasizes the "beat the stuffing out of your enemies" side slightly better.

Xenogears
2009-07-16, 05:41 PM
Flavour-wise, two things come in my mind:

- Monk // Cloistered Cleric (see it in variant classes in SRD)

- Monk // Wu Jen with kung fu genius (a feat in Dragon Magazine allowing you to use int in place of Wis for monk abilities).

I see the former like a wandering religious man, and the latter like a knowledgeable hermit.

Cleric spells are great buffs, I think that the former character would be almost unkilllable. The latter would be a kung fu master throwing fireballs and being able to assume a colossal form at high levels.

Hope can be useful for the kind of campaing played.

Unless they changed it from the oriental adventures book Wu Jen is alignmentent: non-lawful so that cant work (too bad cuz then you could use giant size and body outside body to have 5 collossal versions of yourself. Or use Withering Palm for 1 Str + Con drain per caster lvl with NO upper limit.) Wu Jen would be so great if it was allowed.