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Burley
2009-07-14, 06:23 AM
I was flippin' through my Eberron guide last night and found the Self-Forged paragon path. Okay, so, yeah... It's not the strongest path an artificer could take. But, it's probably the most B.A. I've ever seen. So, I got this great idea:

"Zachar is a Deva who is just fed up with dying. He's died hundreds, if not thousands, of times and its just not fun anymore. Quasi-Immortality is useful for searching out the answers of the world, but one can only blow a piece off themselves in a lab so many times before they crack.
In his previous life, Zachar researched warforged. Blissfully Immortal creatures, who lived forever until they died. And, they stayed dead. It's like they were Devas who skipped the middle man!
In this life, Zachar forced himself to learn the ways of the Artificer and hopefully learn the magics needed to create a warforged. His hope is to create a new body for himself and end his tedious Deva life."

What do you all think? Any advice on builds? When I pick this character up, it'll be to play the party healer, and I noticed that Int and Wis are the healer stats for Artificers. :smallamused: So, feats, items, suggestions? I'd like some ideas on the concept, as well, since I've only skimmed the big Deva article in dragon.

Decoy Lockbox
2009-07-14, 09:36 AM
This is a truly unique idea for a character, let me tell ya. But I can't help you; my only experience with warforged is my Robotic Mike Tyson (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111050) build.

Burley
2009-07-14, 09:55 AM
Ha. I'm just glad the thread didn't die. Since the group I DM needs a leader always, and the current leader will be DMing the next set... Well, I'll get stuck playing the healer.

I'm trying to think of a good multi-class feat to take advantage of the free fist I get at paragon. Any good [W] powers I can look at? Probably Avenger is the only thing that'd be decent. Any great Avenger encounter powers?

erikun
2009-07-14, 02:31 PM
Swordmage? They have a few Instant Reaction/Interrupt powers that can whack stuff when it's not your turn. :smallbiggrin:

Beyond that, great idea for a character. I'm not sure how well it will work out (no access to 4E Eberron), but best of luck with it.

NPCMook
2009-07-14, 02:42 PM
My friend wants me to run my Fighter|Paladin Hybrid Talent Tempest Technique, Its a fun concept but a bit MAD...

Yakk
2009-07-14, 03:37 PM
My friend wants me to run my Fighter|Paladin Hybrid Talent Tempest Technique, Its a fun concept but a bit MAD...
Gensai Tempest Fighter | Assault Swordmage
1: Hybrid Talent Tempest Style
2: Prof: Double Sword
4: Focused Expertise (Double Sword)
6: Weapon Focus (Double Sword)

16(+2) str 16(+2) int 12 dex (12/10/8 for other stats)

Tempest technique bonuses (+1 to hit +2 to damage) apply to swordmage spells.

Get double-sword at level 2, and you are in (int+4) worth of armor even without swordmage warding.

At paragon, pick up dual-implement mastery with your double-sword.

Think about MC warden for one/encounter "mark everything adjacent" and slow-on-OA.

Xallace
2009-07-14, 04:06 PM
I'm trying to think of a good multi-class feat to take advantage of the free fist I get at paragon. Any good [W] powers I can look at? Probably Avenger is the only thing that'd be decent. Any great Avenger encounter powers?

As I read through I'm seeing plenty of decent powers, but nothing too outstanding. I looked through Dragon #372 (it has some powers for Avengers), nothing too awesome there either.

You might want to go with the Swordmage idea if you really want a multi-class feat.

NPCMook
2009-07-14, 04:18 PM
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 8
Warforged, Fighter|Paladin
Hybrid Paladin: Hybrid Paladin Will
Hybrid Talent: Fighter Combat Talent
Fighter Combat Talent: Tempest Technique

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 20, Con 15, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 13.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 13, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 12.


AC: 24 Fort: 22 Reflex: 19 Will: 19
HP: 77 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 19

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +13, Intimidate +12, Endurance +12

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Arcana +4, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +5, Heal +5, History +4, Insight +5, Nature +5, Perception +7, Religion +4, Stealth +5, Streetwise +5, Thievery +5

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Weapon Expertise (Unarmed)
Level 4: Weapon Focus (Unarmed)
Level 6: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 8: Toughness

POWERS
Hybrid Fighter at-will 1: Dual Strike
Hybrid Paladin at-will 1: Holy Strike
Hybrid encounter 1: Funneling Flurry
Hybrid daily 1: Paladin's Judgment
Hybrid utility 2: Boundless Endurance
Hybrid encounter 3: Righteous Smite
Hybrid daily 5: Rain of Steel
Hybrid utility 6: Divine Bodyguard
Hybrid encounter 7: Hampering Flurry

ITEMS
Paired Spiked gauntlet +2 (2), Finemail of Durability +2, Quickhit Braces (heroic tier), Fireflower Pendant +2, Cannith Goggles (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
Its a Semi-Joke character based off of Fallout 3's Liberty Prime, I know Liberty Prime would probably be better suited as Fighter|Laser Cleric, or a Laser Cleric with a few STR attacks, but this is what I came up with.

Yakk
2009-07-14, 04:24 PM
*nod*, as an int-primary class, you want your attacks to use int.

And the only class that makes weapon attacks with int is a swordmage.

Swordmage implement attacks require a sword, but you could argue that 'arcane implement proficiency' should let you use artificer implements to cast swordmage implement powers -- or just realise that swordmage weapon powers don't say "you must be using a sword". ;-)

You'll also get swordmage warding 1/day (which is better than swordbond). Sadly, you cannot get swordmage aegis as a MC power (yet).

NPCMook
2009-07-14, 04:41 PM
*nod*, as an int-primary class, you want your attacks to use int.

And the only class that makes weapon attacks with int is a swordmage.

Swordmage implement attacks require a sword, but you could argue that 'arcane implement proficiency' should let you use artificer implements to cast swordmage implement powers -- or just realise that swordmage weapon powers don't say "you must be using a sword". ;-)

You'll also get swordmage warding 1/day (which is better than swordbond). Sadly, you cannot get swordmage aegis as a MC power (yet).

Personally I'm waiting for the Artificier to get some Hybrid rules, Artificier|Swordmage would be interesting.

As you were saying Yakk, yes a Swordmage can use any weapon with his Swordmage Weapon powers, he needs a Sword for Implement powers. Also technically you don't need an implement to use Implement powers... So a Swordmage could wield an Axe, he just won't get his enhancement bonuses on Implement based powers.

Shadow_Elf
2009-07-14, 06:02 PM
His name should be Deus Ex Machina.

Other than that, awesome concept. I would not recommend MCing to search for some good [W] powers - the only decent melee classes you could potentially consider would be Swordmage or Avenger, whose powers are not at all high in [W] value. Druid, Shaman, Laser-Cleric, Wizard and Invoker powers are not going to be any good for [W] powers. If you would like some nice control powers, a bit of divine flavour and some INT-based utilities, then Invoker is a great idea.

For that "Battlefist", there are actually some nice melee-weapon Artificer powers you can use, IIRC.

Burley
2009-07-15, 06:28 AM
Yeah, there are some good powers for Artificers that have the weapon keyword. Problem is that there aren't any good Artificer weapons, until the Battlefist. And, even then, its not the best weapon, by and far.
I realize that multiclassing into an INT class is the best choice, but my WIS will be strong anyways. Maybe I should just do wizard for thunderwave and... Can you retrain a multiclass feat?

Also, a Swordmage doesn't have to wield a "sword." He was to wield a light or heavy blade. A dagger is definitely not a sword, nor is a sickle or scythe, nor glaive, nor katar or shuriken. Also, kukri, parrying dagger, and... spiked shield? Really? Huh...
So, there's that. Tons of weapons that are blades and not swords. I played a swordmage that used a khopesh, and... some feat or othere that gave me bonuses for the axe bit. I don't remember.

chiasaur11
2009-07-15, 12:49 PM
His name should be Deus Ex Machina.


No, no.

Machina Ex Deus.

Fiendish_Dire_Moose
2009-07-15, 12:53 PM
No, no.

Machina Ex Deus.

No, Ex Machina Deus. Or Esteban. Or, Action Hank.
After all, it's not the beard on the outside that counts, it's the bear on the inside.

chiasaur11
2009-07-15, 12:56 PM
No, Ex Machina Deus. Or Esteban. Or, Action Hank.
After all, it's not the beard on the outside that counts, it's the bear on the inside.

What about JC Denton?

Burley
2009-07-15, 01:18 PM
Well, the only reason I went with Zachar is because it's the last name on the Deva name list and... Well, my name is extremely close to that.

Any advise on how to handle the Artificer's constant tinkering with people's equipment? Or what 'simple melee/simple ranged' weapon I should carry around?

NPCMook
2009-07-15, 01:34 PM
Well, the only reason I went with Zachar is because it's the last name on the Deva name list and... Well, my name is extremely close to that.

Any advise on how to handle the Artificer's constant tinkering with people's equipment? Or what 'simple melee/simple ranged' weapon I should carry around?

The big thing about the Artificer, is they recharge daily item power once a day, with additional uses per milestone. Also, you will have to keep an eye on not only your surges, but everyones surges since you have to spend surges to recharge your healing infusions. If you are going to go Self-Forged, I'd stick to a Melee Build so you can become accustom to being on the front lines.

Burley
2009-07-15, 01:44 PM
Yeah, but the Artificer melee builds are Con-based. I'm a Wis-based Artificer. A) because I have the stat bonus, and 2) because Wis-based offers more/better healing.
I'll definately have a decent Con, but it's be my tertiary statistic.

NPCMook
2009-07-15, 01:56 PM
This doesn't exactly stop you from being Melee, so you up Int and Wis while you let the Tiers bump Con, this only means your secondary effects based off con won't be as good.

Burley
2009-07-15, 03:05 PM
And that I'm missing out on having great secondary effects from picking other powers?

I'm not arguing, I'm just bad at optimizing and I want to learn. :smallredface:

I think I need to just study the stuff tonight. (I almost typed a swear...:smallannoyed:)

Burley
2009-07-16, 06:49 AM
I've decided that I need to stop being dumb and just wield a magic staff (weapon+implement=duh). One I have the new arm, though, I'll probably switch over to wands, since they seem to be better for the Artificer, in general.

Has anybody played an Artificer who wants to give me some tips? Some of the dailies I'm having trouble gauging. I know the summons are the most powerful, but the threat of losing a healing surge for a single mistake is a little frightening.
Also, the weapon enhancement dailies seem incredibly weak compared to the other dailies. Enchanting on the fly is cool, but wasting my standard action is not.

NPCMook
2009-07-17, 09:56 AM
I'd recommend taking a peek at the Dragon Article for today, if you are able, its all about Eberron Familiars, and most of them seem geared very much towards the Artificer, including a new Paragon Path soley for Artificers and their Familiars.

Burley
2009-07-17, 11:21 AM
I'll definitely take a look. I really doubt the DM will run an Eberron-themed campaign, but I'm sure he'll let me use the Artificer stuff.

What sorts of familiars? I love the 4e familiar mechanic, by the way. I've been trying to decide on one for this character (which I have created so much back story just so that the song "Birdhouse in your Soul" by They Might Be Giants can be his life story).

Yakk
2009-07-17, 03:22 PM
Has anybody played an Artificer who wants to give me some tips? Some of the dailies I'm having trouble gauging. I know the summons are the most powerful, but the threat of losing a healing surge for a single mistake is a little frightening.
A summon has half your HP, and all of your defenses.

So long as it isn't adjacent to you (and taking damage along with you etc), it is taking damage instead of you (or an ally).

So if a monster kills it, it has just dealt half your HP, and you lose 1 healing surge, which is worth ... about 1/4 your HP.

Asbestos
2009-07-17, 06:42 PM
I'll definitely take a look. I really doubt the DM will run an Eberron-themed campaign, but I'm sure he'll let me use the Artificer stuff.

What sorts of familiars? I love the 4e familiar mechanic, by the way. I've been trying to decide on one for this character (which I have created so much back story just so that the song "Birdhouse in your Soul" by They Might Be Giants can be his life story).

Well, if you can use Artificer stuff + Warforged, then most of the article should work fine. Here's one in particular that your character may find interesting if they want to resemble a Warforged.

Warforged Faceplate Familiar
This tiny construct resembles the armored face of a warforged, and it
clings to you with multiple jointed appendages.
Speed 4
Constant Benefits
You gain a +2 bonus to Intimidate checks.
You gain a +2 bonus to saving throws against ongoing
damage.
Active Benefits
Warforged Watchfulness: While you are asleep, a
warforged faceplate remains aware of its surroundings,
allowing you to notice approaching enemies and other
events as though you were awake.

This one works with the whole imagery of Deva preferring clothes/armor with wings.

Soarwood Wings Familiar
This animated set of wings clings to your back like a newly emerged
butterfly.
Speed 2, fly 6 (hover)
Constant Benefits
You gain a +2 bonus to Athletics checks to jump.
You gain a +1 bonus to your fly speed, when you have one.
Active Benefits
Soarwood Lift: Once per encounter as a move action,
your soarwood wings fly an adjacent ally (or you, if you are
adjacent) up to 6 squares, then lower the creature gently
to the ground.

Suggestion for an effective Artificer weapon: Drow Long Knife. Take the feat from Arcane power that'll let you use heavy blades as implements and you have a weapon that you can use with all of your Artificer powers (melee/ranged/implement)

Edit: If you want to be a summoner Artificer, then there are a couple of familiars in the new article that benefit summons. Like this guy.
Summoner Homunculus Familiar
This entity is a collection of sprockets and wire that can spur on
summoned creatures.
Speed 6
Constant Benefits
You gain a +2 bonus to Endurance checks.
You can perform the Unseen Servant ritual as a standard
action for no cost, when you have no extant unseen
servants. You do not need to master the ritual to use this
benefit.
Active Benefits
Infuse Summoned: Any creature you have summoned
gains a +1 bonus to all defenses and to attack rolls while
adjacent to the summoner homunculus.