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Liriel
2009-07-14, 03:35 PM
I'm building a Chaos Mage (3rd party publisher located here: http://grandwiki.wikidot.com/qcmg ) for what the DM says will be a difficult campaign. I am hoping for some help in optimizing my build. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks ;-)

erikun
2009-07-14, 03:53 PM
System, level, race, and other books allowed would be a good start. :smallsmile:

From the looks of things, 2nd edition AD&D? Stay out of melee, pack a good crossbow, and blow up anything looking to charge the party. Creating magical items is a good way to spend downtime during higher levels, as you get XP for succeeding. I don't think I have too much more to offer for 2nd ed, though.

Oh, and if your DM is describing the Medusa: don't look him in the eye. Trust me on this one.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-07-14, 04:00 PM
From the looks of things, 2nd edition AD&D?

No, it's a 3e skill-based magic system; I've taken a look at it and the system looks sound, but unfortunately I've never used it and don't have any useful advice to give.

Liriel
2009-07-14, 04:11 PM
My bad, but yes, it is 3rd. The DM allows pretty much everything, just no taking flaws for feats. You qualify for epic feats before epic levels - feel free to take 'em. You found an amazing feat/spell in some 3rd party book - lemme read it...then you can usually use it. :smallbiggrin: He's pretty easy going.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-07-14, 04:31 PM
I'm building a Chaos Mage (3rd party publisher located here: http://grandwiki.wikidot.com/qcmg ) for what the DM says will be a difficult campaign. I am hoping for some help in optimizing my build. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks ;-)

Never played it. First time looking at it. From a quick perusal it's an interesting system. It's sort of like truename magic in that spellcasting is DC based except, you know, made hard to predict instead of non-workable.

See assuming you start at level 1 and your wisdom is 16, then you have a casting check of 4 + 1d20. So you make a DC 11 casting check 65% of the time and you fail 35%. With a DC 11 casting check you can cast spell that makes a short ranged touch attack that does 1d8 damage Fort save for half (based on modified sample spell "Chaos Javelin" from here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6500552#post6500552)). You can do this all day but at least at 1st level your worse off than the warlock.

Now, although you don't have spell slots and you can cast spells "all day", every time you cast a spell you take subdual damage damage. So to cast that DC 11 spell which only works 65% of the time to allow you a (ranged touch) to hit roll to do 1d8 damage and then allows a Fort save, you take 2 hp of subdual damage.

You definitely want to stay away from combat.

However the spell casting is open ended so I'm not sure how powerful it can get. For ex, the 1st level chaos sorcerer with 16 wisdom can cast charm monster (with no HD limit) in a cone with a DC of 15 with a 20% chance of success and a cost of 3 subdual points (based on modified sample spell "Crowd Control" from here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6500552#post6500552)).

The first thing is doing anything to bump up your chaos casting check. So for ex, bump up your wisdom or perhaps take one of the a "chaos casting" focus feat. Your second most important stat is constitution. Pick a race with a con and wis bonus +2 if you can...not that there are many...maybe aasimar but it might not fight your concept and its LA +1.

Since the spell effects are open ended, start with the sample spells and build up from there. You want to have some solid spells at some point, spells which you can cast with a 90-95% success rate. Then add options which can increase the effect (at the cost of lowering your chance of success).

As for prestige classes, the "doomringer" sounds good, if you like the flavor. You get 8/10 spellcasting progression, some nifty damage saving abilities and your don't lose a "school" of chaos magic.

As for feats, like I said anything that bumps up your DC check like the various focus feats. Anything that reduces subdual damage is also good. Problem is these feats increase another risk...your "path into chaos". Augment summoning is also good. And I also like the feat that gives you...er your "chaos familiar" 2 extra skill points per level. That's a pretty good feat.

Maybe where to start is to read the section on archetypes and see where to go from there. That is do you want to be a generalist, blaster, etc? Then it's easier to pick up what you want in this new system.

Indon
2009-07-14, 06:12 PM
Is it a 3.0 game, or a 3.5 game with 3.0 content?

If it's a 3.5 game, then make sure someone in your party has a wand of Vigor - it's a level 1 spell that gradually restores a good amount of HP, 1 at a time. This is particularly useful to you because in 3.5, whenever you take healing, for each point you take you also heal a point of nonlethal damage - which if I'm not mistaken is what subdual damage is renamed in the update.

So that can help you recover from combats relatively easy.

Edit: Mind any other magical healing would also work, but your group might not have the healing resources to zap up everyone and also heal up your less-fatal damage.

Liriel
2009-07-14, 10:12 PM
Is it a 3.0 game, or a 3.5 game with 3.0 content?


It is 3.5 with 3.0 content.

My GM is the one who loaned the book to me, suggesting I play it. He's quite familiar with it and knows the ins and outs. And with him stating it will be a difficult campaign, I just want to make sure I'm on the right track. ("..taking the kid's gloves off." was his exact quote.)

He likes getting into high level major fights in his campaigns.

deuxhero
2009-07-14, 10:14 PM
Red paint make you... No wait, wrong Chaos.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-07-14, 11:23 PM
It is 3.5 with 3.0 content.

My GM is the one who loaned the book to me, suggesting I play it. He's quite familiar with it and knows the ins and outs. And with him stating it will be a difficult campaign, I just want to make sure I'm on the right track. ("..taking the kid's gloves off." was his exact quote.)

He likes getting into high level major fights in his campaigns.

Then it seem like you can build some pretty powerful spells at high level. The sample "high level" spells assume a 20th level caster with a wisdom of 22 but with the right point buy and wisdom boosting items, the caster check could easily be 29 + 1d20 or higher. If you have access to healing magic and you've boosted your Con you could easily have 130 hp or more at that level, then a spell cost of 6-7 subdual hp is not that much.

The sample spells with DC of 31 (chance of failure are only 5%) seem pretty powerful. Ravenous Blast at 20th level does 30d8 (untyped) damage and -5 Con with a ranged touch and a failed Fort save (DC 29) and on subsequent rounds it does more damage (9d8, 8d8, ..., Fort save for half again)?! Or you can drop the lingering damage and bump the Fort DC by +2 to give a final For save of 31?!

The Safe Capture spell on a failed Will save (DC 29) reduces the subject Int and Wis by 20 points each (to a minimum of 1 each) and moves the target to a "safe" place up to 120 feet away or, again, you can drop the minor effect and bump the Will save by +2?!

So I think, again, the way to go is just boost the heck out of Wis, Con, and Dex if you can afford it, dump everything else, bump up your AC with magic or long duration buffs, get access to healing magic and avoid combat.

Not that I'm saying anything you probably have not already figured out...

Edit: Wait. Magic items like the Skullcap of Unmatched Mastery and the Staff of Exquisite Magery let you store charges that you can use towards the spell casting check? And you can draw up 3 points per caster level to cast a spell. I mean unless I'm missing something magic item creation is feat free and relatively cheap, to store 20 charges costs 2000 gp for ex. 20 stored charges lets you at level 7 add +4 to the save DC of a spell AND change it from a single target spell a spread Or it lets you automatically overcome SR 20? YOU MUST MAKE THIS.

FMArthur
2009-07-14, 11:44 PM
Look at your "Chaos Countermagic" class ability. If you so choose, you can make it so that there is no magic but your own. Part of why I didn't allow it in my campaign.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-07-14, 11:59 PM
My bad, but yes, it is 3rd. The DM allows pretty much everything, just no taking flaws for feats. You qualify for epic feats before epic levels - feel free to take 'em.

Er...so you could take the epic feat Great Wisdom and add another 1 to your Wisdom score every 3 levels???

Liriel
2009-07-15, 12:04 AM
Look at your "Chaos Countermagic" class ability. If you so choose, you can make it so that there is no magic but your own. Part of why I didn't allow it in my campaign.

Everything except for divine magic...if you make the rolls...and can take that much damage yourself...but otherwise, yeah.

Not knocking your comment, at all. Just pointing out the flip side. I respect your rules as a DM.

My DM handed me the book though and suggested it to me, so he's cool with it. It won't work every time, everywhere, every game though. I know that. ;-)


Er...so you could take the epic feat Great Wisdom and add another 1 to your Wisdom score every 3 levels???

If I felt so inclined, yes. Doubt I'd ever find a char that wanted to use all those lovely feats on Great Wisdom, though.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-07-15, 01:08 AM
Doubt I'd ever find a char that wanted to use all those lovely feats on Great Wisdom, though.

Well not every feat but starting Wisdom 15 makes the feat the equivalent of +1 to spell casting DC, +1 to will saves and +1 to sense skills at levels 1 and 6. And since you don't need craft feats or metamagic feats...