OOTS' Spanish translation

[Enekon]

Hi there, I'm Enekon, and I'm a Spanish faithful follower of the OOTS' adventures. Luckily, my English level is good enough for understanding the OOTS comics, but not all of my Spanish-speakers comrades can uderstand the Shakespeare language, and I'm sure that most of them will surely enjoy the OOTS.

For that reason, I've started translating the OOTS comics to Spanish, but I haven't uploaded anything anywhere, because first I want to have explicit permission to do that. I will only translate the OOTS comics available at the Giant in the Playground web, and I'll do it without any economic interest (I mean, comics would be readable for free, as the originals).

The site where I want to upload the comics is http://subcultura.es, a Spanish web about webcomics where I usually dwell with the username of Redentor. If I have permission, I'll start uploading the first pages in a few days at that site.

Thank you for reading anyway.

Carpe Diem (et Carpe Noctem)

[Flickerdart]

I believe Rich only allows script translations, and explicitly forbids the editing of his art. So text-only with permission is fine, but not the comics themselves.

[Teatime]

The Giant has spoken several times about this issue. Unfortunately, the conditions of his copyright on the series and characters is pretty strict, and he can't afford to let anyone edit or re-upload his comics, under any circumstances. I believe he's said that the only acceptable form of translation would be to transcribe the dialogue in a separate file, and link to the original comics here on giantitp.com. Even that I'm uncertain on. But unfortunately, what you're suggesting definitely will not work.

[Random832]

he can't afford to

Not allowing this is a choice he makes - yes, it is a choice that he definitely has the right to make, but it is his choice and it is not reasonable to say that he is forced to choose this way or would be harmed by choosing differently. He chooses not to give permission, nothing more.

[NerfTW]

No, Random, he needs to keep a hold on the copyright. Not to mention he has not control over the quality of the work, or people claiming that they drew it and he's the one who translated it to English, or simply being offensive. (Ever seen the early Dragonball Z subs where they just swore the whole time?)

Just because you want to go lalalala and believe whatever you want about copyright doesn't make it true.

[Xapi]

Random is clear and right, it's a choice he makes.

He has the right to take it, and both options (Actually, a continuum of options between allowing anything and allowing nothing) have their pros and cons, and he's made his choice.

[[TS] Shadow]

As said before, the Giant forbids translation. I think that the best course of action would be to ask the giant if there will ever be a translation. Don't keep your hopes up, though, as that route hasn't worked well with the OotS voice-over (we still haven't got a reply and that was like 3 months ago.) If there is an official translation, it will probably be AFTER the series ends.

[Random832]

No, Random, he needs to keep a hold on the copyright.

That is not how copyright law works. He has a choice whether or not to allow it, and he chose not to. There's nothing wrong with that, but it is exactly that - a choice he made.


Not to mention he has not control over the quality of the work,

He could only allow it to be released if it meets certain quality standards.


or people claiming that they drew it and he's the one who translated it to English, or simply being offensive. (Ever seen the early Dragonball Z subs where they just swore the whole time?)

He can stop them doing that the same way he can stop them releasing it at all. (as for DBZ subs, I understand a lot from the original japanese was toned down for the official dubbed release)


Just because you want to go lalalala and believe whatever you want about copyright doesn't make it true.

Except you're the one who's wrong.

I'm not saying he doesn't have the right to choose the way he did. That is his right. But it is his choice and no-one can say he is being FORCED to not allow it.

[Red XIV]

Shadow;6501063']I think that the best course of action would be to ask the giant if there will ever be a translation. Don't keep your hopes up, though, as that route hasn't worked well with the OotS voice-over (we still haven't got a reply and that was like 3 months ago.)
An OotS voice-over is, no offense, hardly in the same league as a translation.

[GooeyChewie]

I think the two of you are arguing different things. The giant does have a choice as to how much he limits the use of his creation. And the choice to limit it severely is the choice he needs to make (and has made), lest the use of his creation get out of hand.

[Rustic Dude]

Why don't you draw the comics yourself, with the real text? I think it's Giant's art the thing it's forbidden to take. Of course, nobody wants to work that much, but hey, you wouldn't have any problems.

Also, I think there are translated(illegal, for sure)comics in the net. Thats the way I discovered the Playground.

[Nimrod's Son]

He could only allow it to be released if it meets certain quality standards.
Unless he speaks fluent Spanish himself, that might prove a little difficult.

[Souhiro]

Well, hoy will you translate the "Spell Level" joke?

"Ah... a new Spell Level"
"L - e - v - e - l"
"But you can't learn spell levels!"
"I'm not a dumb fighter! I can Spell"

[Enekon]

Ouch. You have to mention THAT joke. Yeah, that would have been a difficult one, but in every translation (specially in the humorous ones) there are jokes, or expressions, that cannot be literally translated, and have to be adapted.

Anyway, heard and understood. Rich has chosen not to allow "amateur" translations, and I understand the motives. Well, if I were asking for permission was because I didn't know if I was allowed to translate the OOTS. Now I know it.

Well, thank you all for solving my doubts.

Carpe Diem (et Carpe Noctem)

[Alias]

Just because you want to go lalalala and believe whatever you want about copyright doesn't make it true.

I. RON. IC.

Copyright doesn't have to be defended to be retained. Trademarks do, but that's a wholly separate topic. Rich's property, Rich's prerogative, but copyright law is very clear on this - translations are derivative works and their existence does not in any way weaken or even affect the original work.

[rewinn]

Ouch. You have to mention THAT joke. Yeah, that would have been a difficult one, but in every translation (specially in the humorous ones) there are jokes, or expressions, that cannot be literally translated, and have to be adapted.

Anyway, heard and understood. Rich has chosen not to allow "amateur" translations, and I understand the motives. Well, if I were asking for permission was because I didn't know if I was allowed to translate the OOTS. Now I know it.

Well, thank you all for solving my doubts.

Carpe Diem (et Carpe Noctem)
A key point is that no-one in this forum, only the owner of the copyright, can give you permission, and to get that permission, you need to give him a reason.

One reason might be to increase shop sales. Try emailing a translation (no art) showing how you resolved the humor issue e.g. "yo soy sexy sin zapatos dios de la guerra"

Be patient. You may have to meditate outside the monastery door for months, to prove you're for real. I wish you luck but this forum can't help, other than advise you (as others have) not to go ahead without The Giant's permission in writing.

[Nibelung]

{Scrubbed}

We are still waiting some official response if this thing is allowed or no, but given the time, because of all people who only know oots because of translations, we are risking. Both sites now work on "subtitles" because it's a legal hole (Giant allow text translation).

I hope this helped.

[RMS Oceanic]

There is a thread around here somewhere, where each comic is being translated to German, one at a time, text only. Until you hear otherwise from the Giant, I'd adopt that format.

[ref]

Copyright doesn't have to be defended to be retained. Trademarks do, but that's a wholly separate topic.

Only that OotS is a trademark, not a copyright. So that's why.

[Zherog]

Only that OotS is a trademark, not a copyright. So that's why.

OotS is both. The images, text, and layout are copyrighted items. The name can be trademarked. A bunch of specific elements within the comic would probably also qualify.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

[JoseB]

Enekon, te he enviado un mensaje privado; échale un ojo :)

Enekon, I have sent you a private message; have a look at it :)

[Captain Alien]

but we found an alternate solution (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102604) that we are using.


And it keeps amazing me. Seriously. Nonetheless, I still find it so wrong...

Also, a "Sexy dios de la guerra descalzo" is not as funny as a "Sexy shoeless god of war". Don't ask me why.

[Morthis]

Not allowing this is a choice he makes - yes, it is a choice that he definitely has the right to make, but it is his choice and it is not reasonable to say that he is forced to choose this way or would be harmed by choosing differently. He chooses not to give permission, nothing more.

He does not really have a choice, but not because of copyright laws. It's the trademark he needs to defend.

His lawyer advised him against allowing this because if he does not fight those trademark violations he clearly knows about, he might lose the trademark.

So really, while he technically has the choice, he is kind of forced into not allowing it in order to ensure he keeps trademarks and can continue to make a living off this comic.

[Random832]

:smallsigh: Because the concept of licensing doesn't exist at all, right?

If he gives permission in advance for something, it's no longer a "violation" and carries no requirement to "defend against" or lose his trademark.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with what he decided, but it's ridiculous to pretend it's not his decision.

Unfortunately...


Q: I speak a language other than English. Can I translate the Order of the Stick for my game site?

A: At this time, the translation program is on indefinite hold. Some of the existing translations apparently suffered from accuracy issues, and all suffered from a lack of support from the translator, most of whom faded away after translating only a fraction of the strip's run. Also, there was no promotion or advertisement by the translators in their native language, resulting in a great deal of work for very, very few hits. Please do not contact me regarding translating OOTS into your native language until such time as I decide whether to continue the translation program.

The subtext here seems to be that he's not interested in a translation unless he can make a profit from it.

[JoseB]

The subtext here seems to be that he's not interested in a translation unless he can make a profit from it.

Like practically any other author or publisher (Rich self-publishes his work, after all) of any other work of literature, comic, or whatever, no?

I don't think that DelRey books would appreciate very much if pirate translations of the works they published were distributed around in other countries. It is known that J.K.Rowling strongly disapproved of the pirate translations of her Harry Potter books that were made in China and Russia. And I got to directly interact with Terry Pratchett, who transmitted a definite dislike regarding some apparently "under-the-table" translations of his works in Russian.

TL;DR -- Rich is under no obligation to accept a translation of his works if he doesn't make a profit from it. In that he is just like the immense majority of other authors and publishers.

[Nibelung]

Also, a "Sexy dios de la guerra descalzo" is not as funny as a "Sexy shoeless god of war". Don't ask me why.

I, OTOH, find that translations are "good" if you see the translated version first, and "bad" if you're used with the original version. See Naruto fanbase about translated techs (Shadow Clone Jutsu x Kage Bushin no Jutsu), or Bleach fanbase against Shinigami-Soul Reaper. Buy nobody cares if we call the son of god "Jesus", when his original name is יהושע (Yehoshua, Joshua).

Only my point of view. Maybe i'm wrong, but nothing until now proved me wrong about this. Most people who complain against any translated term (to any language) are (1) used with the original term/catch phrase, and/or dont want to learn a new one to talk to another fans; (2) thinking that the foreign language give it some "style" (mostly because they dont understand what the thing means); or (3) trolling.

[Worira]

Mind you, Nibelung's method requires people reading his translations to visit the site anyway, so the thing about number of hits doesn't really apply.

[Captain Alien]

I, OTOH, find that translations are "good" if you see the translated version first, and "bad" if you're used with the original version.

Sounds reasonable. Translations seem weird when you are used to the original.

Anyway, every translation weakens the meaning or the inherent "power" of the original. For example, English is a most versatile language. It allows almost everything you want to say. Spanish, for example, does not allow many of the possibilities that English offers, and that is why the translation will never be faithful.

You might say there is no faithful translation, because the author never wrote anything in any other language than English.

I know translations are necessary, but I try to avoid them if I can. Not because they are all wrong, for there are "good" translations (more faithful, but, as I said, not faithful at all), but because they change everything the author said. Literally.

Also, if I ever complain about a translated term, that is because it is a bad translation. For example, in Spain, Goku does not fire Kamehamehas. He fires "Ondas Vitales" ("Life waves", or "Vital Waves", or something much weirder). Oh, and his son does not go around Masenkoing things. He shoots... Ondas Vitales, once again.

[Lissou]

That thread is actually starting to convince me...

What I mean is, I've been asking if the patch solution is okay. I sent PMs to mods, I asked in lots of threads. There is even a thread where I posted the patches themselves for approval.

I never got any answer whatsoever. And I realise the Giant is busy, and the mods are busy and can't be sure what's ok or not. But I've been refraining from making more patches because I want to be sure it's okay. And in the meantime the other languages are doing it, and talking freely about it on the forums, and that's obviously not a problem.

So I'm starting to think, maybe I should do it seriously too. Share the code with French-speaking people instead of keeping it for me (and the mods. I did send it to them too. Well some of them.)

I realise it's probably something on my end. I asked the wrong people, or I'm not patient enough (but let's be fair, it's been a year now since the first "oots French Patches (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87811&highlight=french+patch+baton)" thread. Okay, the javascript option to make it readable on giantitp itself was found out more recently, but still.)

If any mods are reading this (or the Giant himself, who knows) I'm asking again, please let me know if that's okay or not.

Let me re-explain how it works: an image file with only the text, hosted in photobucket (in my case) is pasted over the original drawing through a javascript code.
Does that count as altering the Giant's art, or not? Is it okay to share the javascript code, or not?

It doesn't pretend someone else than Rich Burlew is the author, actually you have to come to his website to see the translated strips. Only text translations are allowed, but the patches are text translations... Only coloured and shaped to match the comic.
So does that make it wrong, or not?

It's important to me to respect the Giant's copyright (and his will), but I'm getting a bit depressed not getting an answer at all and having decided to refrain from doing it until I got an answer, while other languages are doing it and aren't being told to stop.

But without an actual "yes", I can't legitimately say that I have the permission to do it. It could just be exploiting a loophole.

So what do you guys think I should do? How can I make sure the Giant is aware of what's going on, and know if he's ok with it or against it?

[Roland St. Jude]

...It's important to me to respect the Giant's copyright (and his will), but I'm getting a bit depressed not getting an answer at all and having decided to refrain from doing it until I got an answer, while other languages are doing it and aren't being told to stop.

But without an actual "yes", I can't legitimately say that I have the permission to do it. It could just be exploiting a loophole.

So what do you guys think I should do? How can I make sure the Giant is aware of what's going on, and know if he's ok with it or against it?

I'm not in a position to tell you to do it or not do it. I'm not your counsel and I'm not authorized by Rich to grant permission.

What I would say is, you're exactly right. If you don't have permission, you don't have permission. You do whatever you do at your own risk in terms of legal consequences or going against Rich's will regarding his work.

Also, don't assume that others aren't being told to stop, politely or through more official channels.

Rich has approved text-only translations in threads here, so while it's less than ideal, it's what's been authorized. The right to make translations of a copyrighted work belong to the original author, so permission to do this much is a gift. (And no, he hasn't approved text translations elsewhere!)

I appreciate your ingenuity and the effort it takes to make your idea work. But it boils down to the fact that you don't have permission, so you need to decide for yourself whether the opinions of the author or potential legal consequences are important enough to you to shelf the project or whether you're willing to do it without permission. I know what I (wouldn't) do, but it's your decision.

Sorry that I can't be more helpful, personally.

[Lissou]

Thanks :)

I understand that you can't grant permission and have no way to know the Giant's opinion if he doesn't give it to you.

I'm happy to have an answer though, as my main problem was not knowing if I was being ignored, if it was being discussed or if I just hadn't been heard yet (I realise you're all very busy).

Thanks for the clarification about text translations only being allowed on this here forum, I hadn't realised that was the case.

I think I'll work on a translation directly on the strips, keep it for myself (hopefully, something I don't distribute in anyway whatsoever is allowed) and use it for transcripts.
I find it more useful to know how the text fits in a balloon, as I feel it's an important part of a translation as far as comics are concerned, which explains this extra "step" as opposed to direct transcripts.

I will also remove the patches that are currently hosted on photobucket that I used to test the code. If text transcripts aren't allowed elsewhere than on the forums, it doesn't feel right hosting patches anywhere at all.

I guess the problem of "others are doing it!" is childish. Maybe they are, but if it's wrong, it's wrong. I admit I am afraid that someone might start a terrible French translation and slaughter the whole comic, but I can't do something I'm not allowed to for fear of someone maybe doing worse at some point. That would be ridiculous.

Thanks for replying, I actually feel a lot better now. And honestly, I started translating OOTS because I wanted to. I have no real problem keeping at it even if nobody ever reads it.

[Nibelung]

Rich has approved text-only translations in threads here

He allowed text-translation-only in external sites too (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3694502&postcount=29). On the final lines, he said: "If you want to translate the TEXT and put it, in script format, on your website, you can do that."

I know that my method is a loophole. I'm just pointing that text-only is allowed outside GitP's forums.

[Roland St. Jude]

He allowed text-translation-only in external sites too (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3694502&postcount=29). On the final lines, he said: "If you want to translate the TEXT and put it, in script format, on your website, you can do that."

I know that my method is a loophole. I'm just pointing that text-only is allowed outside GitP's forums.

Obviously those are the words of The Giant. I was incorrect insofar as he's allowed text-only translations in script format on other sites. Since my beat is limited to the forums, I missed that one.

Nevertheless, you continue to exploit a "loophole," as you call it, but what you are doing is clearly not what Rich intended or authorized ("in script format"). You can't just read that out of the sentence (and saying that it's java script or some similar thing is not credible in the context of his post). There's no loophole to be exploited; you're just doing something beyond what he's approved.

You want to call it a loophole so that you can feel justified about continuing to do it until he tells you to stop again.

Clearly, my comment isn't going to dissuade you and the general disapproval of OotS forumites won't either. In fact, given that you've previously been asked to stop by Rich, yet you continue to look for loopholes suggest that you don't respect him or his wishes either.