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Liwen
2009-07-15, 02:04 AM
Hey all. In a recent campaign I've begun (one that happens in modern Earth time, which is actually cool) one of my player suggested a design for a custom weapon he wishes to wield. I'd like you to read this design and tell me what you think :

The ChainAxe

Receipe : 1 Great Axe + 1 Chainsaw

Basically, you strip the chain and engine from the chain saw, leaving only the blade, you put the engine on the top of the axe and fix the chain on one of the Axe blades (it has two blades, on of each side, near the end) Then you fix a heavier handle on the other end of the axe to counter the additional weight added to the bladed end.

Stats:

1d12+1.5 strength mod (the regular greataxe damage)
2d6 slashing damage (from the active chain)
Critical Range is still 20 for x3 damage (the great axe damage only. the chain damage never changes)

special : Dismemberment. Whenever you hit a target on a critical hit which process limbs or necks small enough to be realistically cut by a blow of the Chainaxe, roll on the following chart :

1-50 Nothing is cut, enemy takes damage
51-70 a arm or tentacle is cut
70-90 a leg is cut
90-99 a neck is cut (this blow is lethal to a lot of creatures)
100 the severed limb, tentacle or neck is chosen by the player

Any consequences normally resulting from a limb being severed are respected, such as the losing of a lot of blood and possible death that may result of it.

Keep in mind the player is level 2 and already process the needed parts to built the weapon. The questions now are... Do you believed it's overpowered, cool, epic, realistic, etc?

Owrtho
2009-07-15, 02:13 AM
Just thought I'd point out that on a chain saw the chain is the sharp part. As such I don't think it would be bludgeoning damage.

Owrtho

Liwen
2009-07-15, 02:16 AM
Just thought I'd point out that on a chain saw the chain is the sharp part. As such I don't think it would be bludgeoning damage.

Owrtho

Actually a good point. I'll edit it

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-07-15, 11:33 AM
Both overpowered and decidedly unrealistic.

Overpowered

It's a 1d12 Two-Handed weapon with a 20/x3 critical. Good...that's martial weapon territory.

It deals +2d6 slashing damage...alright. That's +7 damage on average...and the normal damage difference between a martial weapon and an exotic weapon is +1-+2 (take the Longbow--1d10...and the Greatbow--1d12). So that's already to good. It's better than a +2 magical enhancement (a +1 bonus and the Collision enhancement, which adds +5 damage). That's no good.

On top of that, it's criticals are INSANE. That's high-level enhancement stuff, not mundane weapon stuff. Given that Vorpal (an enhancement that instantly kills on a confirmed critical...triggered only by a natural 20) is a +5 enhancement, this is probably around +4 (offers a less potent effect, but triggers on any critical...including those caused by the Improved Critical feat).

So, in short...I'd consider this to be the equivalent of a +6 weapon (actually, make that +7...it doesn't lose power in a no-magic area). That's if it were realistic enough for me to allow...


Unrealistic

Chainsaws weigh between 7 and 10 pounds, on average. The engine and blade account for most of this weight. Now...take that, and add it to a 12lb weapon. Now stick a heavier handle on it...assuming the Greataxe uses a thicker, shorter Quarterstaff for a pole (a reasonable assumption) and you'll need one at least twice as durable, you've just added another 4 pounds...for a final weight of about 23-26 pounds. On a stick. With all the weight sticking out in the same direction.

Try wielding something like that. Now try wielding it fast enough for multiple attacks, and accurate enough to A: hit something, and B: Hit it with the part of the blade you intend to hit it with. It's almost impossible. If I were to allow this weapon, attacking would be at something like a -8 penalty (and an additional -2 penalty to your Armor Class and Reflex saves for the next round while you recover), with a Reflex save (DC = Attack Roll) to dodge the attack completely (you can't swing something like this quickly)...and attacking with it is a full-round action.

Finally, the action of having the engine itself take the impact of the blow (which it would, being connected to the handle) would quickly remove any functionality the weapon has. Engines aren't made to take concussive shock: pipes and tubes would break free, gas would go everywhere, and the thing would stop working.



Sorry. It's a creative idea, but I have to say that I'd tell the player it doesn't work that way. If he wants a chainsaw, have him fight with a chainsaw. It would be much more efficient in real life anyway.

Cieyrin
2009-07-15, 11:37 AM
Seems a bit overpowering to me. You've built a Hack Master, basically, with the craziness of Vorpal weaponry extended to more than simple head-taking. I'd say if you dropped the critical dismemberment, it'd be more in line powerwise with the sort of things you should be finding.

To simulate the deadliness of criticals, you may want to raise the critical range to 19-20/x3, as the chain makes it more likely to cause bleeding wounds and whatnot.

Pricewise, I'd require your greataxe be at least masterwork, plus the cost of the chainsaw (the equivalent of 200 gp, I'd imagine) and then the costs for parts and modification, as some things will need to be custom created to make it work properly, as not everything is gonna transfer perfectly, especially given the size difference between a greataxe and a chainsaw. Perhaps the chain isn't long enough or you need to improve the engine to get it up to speed over the longer path around the greataxe's blades. Possibly even more if you're not doing the work yourself, as I don't imagine craft skills like in Renaissance-era D&D will be as common in modern times.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

EDIT: Oh, I just remembered that there is something statted out like this already, though it's in a 3rd party d20 book, called Dragonmech. The weapon in question is called a Buzzaxe, which is essentially what you're trying to make, other than it was steam-powered. What they did with the addition of the chain is increase the sheer damage it does, raising it from 1d12 to 2d8, which is roughly equivalent to using a greataxe of one size greater. I believe they kept the critical modifier, though I can't be sure, since I don't have access to the book at this time.

Yora
2009-07-15, 11:39 AM
An axe works by swinging it to make a hard impact. A chainsaw works by holding it steady in one place and let the chain do its work.
That doesn't work well together.

Zeta Kai
2009-07-15, 12:25 PM
If it were realistic, it would've been invented already.

AugustNights
2009-07-15, 01:09 PM
Another nit-pick...

The player is Level 2?
I don't think that offers enough skill ranks to really be able to craft something as complicated as redesigning a small engine. At least not with any haste.

I've always liked the idea of bladed weapons having a chain on them, but it is very unrealistic. So are Giants skeletal structures, and elven life-spans. The best option here is to bring magic into play, if it is a magical item it no longer needs to be completely realistic.

However I agree with Djinn_In_Tonic, it's very over-powered.

My Suggestion:
+1 Damage, -2 Attack
A simple damage modification.
Chainsaws don't actually cut off limbs with much efficiency. (You'd need a better designed blade that wouldn't get gunked up by the flesh) One would really be better off trying to heave someone's limbs off with a Heavy Ax. You could at least do it more than once that way.

Origomar
2009-07-15, 02:32 PM
i would nerf the criticals make it like only a 20ish % chance that a limb is ripped off and nerf the damage a little bit.

Cieyrin
2009-07-16, 10:21 AM
If it were realistic, it would've been invented already.

It does, in fact, exist, which I mentioned in my post, the Buzzaxe, which is from a 3rd Party book, Dragonmech. Given the setting it's made for is Fantasy/Steampunk, it kinda works. Their take on the weapon was to simply increase the damage from 1d12 to 2d8, roughly a size up. Other than that, it most definitely weighs more (how much more, I couldn't tell you, as I don't have access to my copy of Dragonmech at the moment -_-).

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-07-16, 10:22 AM
It does, in fact, exist, which I mentioned in my post, the Buzzaxe, which is from a 3rd Party book, Dragonmech. Given the setting it's made for is Fantasy/Steampunk, it kinda works. Their take on the weapon was to simply increase the damage from 1d12 to 2d8, roughly a size up. Other than that, it most definitely weighs more (how much more, I couldn't tell you, as I don't have access to my copy of Dragonmech at the moment -_-).

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

He meant that if it were realistic, someone in real life would have invented one. I believe.

Liwen
2009-07-16, 06:22 PM
Thank you all for your advice. Especially Yora. Your point is an excellent one. These two weapons are not really compatible. Here's the rest of the rant, even if that little project is getting off the table.

I had my hints that the weapon was a little overpowered (even in the contest of the campaign, which is so heavily house ruled it looks like a 3.5 and 4.0 hybrid with a whole next set of classes that are a tad more powerful than the original 11 class of the PHB.) Many of your suggestions to nerf is down a little were considered and would have valid options.

The world being Magicless (it's Earth) The only way you could come up with this weapon is by enhanced technology (which is present in the setting of 2025) That would have made most of the objections to the weapon design being unrealistic fall down.

A great axe being bladed on each side. I could recycle the weapon into a tool with two uses. One would be hitting things with regular greataxe damage with the unchained blade, and then you could also cut through doors with it. Using lighten materials and a almost weightless electric engine fixed closer to the middle of the handle would make it a balanced and viable weapon.