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Kelen_Rai
2005-09-28, 08:14 AM
First things first
Hi all

Now down to business
I just recived a call from one of my players who has designed a weapon for his Half-ogre Ninja to use (dont ask)

I cant remember what he called it but the vitals went like this (for medium creature)

Kukri-Weighted Chain

1d4 dam from the Kukri
2d4 non leathal from the weighted end
double weapon
reach but only with the weighted end
trip as flail
critical multiplyer x2

What do you all think about such a weapon
Any changes or comments will be helpful
And i am going to let this weapon in but need to review it first, just like the idea

Thanks all

Sacrath
2005-09-28, 08:31 AM
In my experiance, player created weapons are trouble, and most of the time the player in question just wants a weapon that looks cool. So what I have done is just allowed any masterwork weapon to look pretty much how the players want it to. If you have a player that wants a kukri-chain have them get a masterwork spiked chain, change the damage to slashing, and use those stats. There is no reason to make new stats when in essense the weapon is the same.

Kelen_Rai
2005-09-28, 09:27 AM
I encorage my players to do this sort of thing as it is not just my world we play in.
If a player has an idea that i havn't had then they nut out the basic rules and then we work on them.
In this case the base idea is nice and tight and fits the characters theme

Beyond the simularities to another weapon what do you think of the Kukri-chain and how does it fit in with the rest of the weapons avalible

Oeryn
2005-09-28, 09:58 AM
Kelen, I'm with you. I like to let my players come up wtih new stuff, too. It's great to let them run with an idea, especially if it's in character.

But I gotta agree with Sacrath, too. A lot of times, when a player has an idea for a weapon, they tend to go overboard with things like damage, or special abilities like reach. Those kinds of things can get out of hand pretty quick, and it's hard for a DM to foresee all the possible outcomes.

When one of my players comes up with a new idea for a weapon, I try to do what Sacrath suggested. See what weapon it most closely resembles (in function, no necessarily looks), and start from there. It gives you a good idea of where you should start, if nothing else. You can always change the "look" of a weapon, without having to come up with something completely new every time. I know I --as a DM-- can sometimes get caught up in a cool new weapon idea, and it helps to kinda keep perspective that way.

By all means, let him have the new weapon. That kind of creativity should be encouraged, IMO. You just don't want to let things get away from you. Especially if, like you said, you're not the only one DMing these players.

Sundog
2005-09-28, 10:09 AM
A Kukri-weighted chain? Isn't that basically a Kusari-gama?
Check Oriental Adventures.

MisterRaziel
2005-09-28, 10:31 AM
Isn't a kusari-gama a KAMA on a chain?

Anyway, to the original poster, what you're talking about is simply a spiked chain.

Just give him a masterwork spiked chain and go with that. You're talking about a weapon that has reach, point-blank fighting capabilities, and tripping.

Tell him it's a chain with a kukri on it. He'll be happy. You don't even have to tell him to look at the spiked chain stats, just read them off.

richelieu
2005-09-28, 01:54 PM
Warning! ANYTIME a player designs a new weapon it is ALWAYS powergaming and a DM must think very carefully before allowing it. The default answer should be no. Please think about how broken the spiked chain is anyway, and this character will be a half-ogre ninja, sneak attacking, threatening up to fifteen feet away, etc. This will seriously unbalance the campaign if it isn't already, and judging from your reluctance to decline this power weapon, I surmise that other stuff of this nature is in your game. Good luck, because you'll need it.

Sundog
2005-09-28, 02:36 PM
Isn't a kusari-gama a KAMA on a chain?

Yeah, but when you get right down to it, is there any real difference, stat-wise? I know they're used differently in real life, but you're still talking about two blade weapons, each roughly the same weight and size, with the cutting edge inside the angle. Put either of those on the end of a chain and it's going to work the same way and have much the same characteristics.

So, just use the Kusari-gama stats.

subzerosako
2005-09-28, 02:43 PM
Im putting up a weapon of my own, just for kicks

War Cleaver.
Two handed martial. One handed exotic
1d8
19-20 x3 martially x2 exotically
slashing.
It's a heavy, four foot long razor blade that has a greater bit of weight to it then a regular sword.


Taking 1d8 from the falchion, for the razor bladed ness. Two handed martially and one handed exotically fromt he hand-and-a-half sword, and the x3 crit from the battleaxe, for the weight. i tried to balance the critting, so you have to sacrifice the shield to get the nice crit modifier, and used the 1d8 damage because the least of the medium sized two-handers is 2d4=1d8

foXXtail
2005-09-28, 03:17 PM
A good way to balace the broken-ness of player-created weapons is to make them sink a feat into it. Proficiency (whetever the weapon is) might make them think twice about making it.

Muzzleflash
2005-09-28, 03:40 PM
I really want to build a character that uses wristblades (as everyone has probably noticed), so the coolness factor does probably have a part in it. I planned for an exotic weapon usage feat for them, though, along with no exceptionally powerful mods. Balance, y'know.

Kelen_Rai
2005-09-29, 07:21 AM
I understand where most of you are coming from.
I can understand how this weapon can get out of hand. But i have thought about it and i have a few balancing factors.

Exotic Weapon Feat, to use the weapons base functions
Two Weapon Fighting, to use it as a double weapon
Reducing the weighted end damage to d6 non-leathal
Reach only as a standard action

Does this sound a little more balanced
less damage than the spiked chain but a few more combat options

Serpitus
2005-09-29, 02:14 PM
I am with richelieu on this one. Half ogre ninja with a spiked chain? You got yourself a power gamer on your hands. No matter what you do to balance it he/she will try to break it. Next thing he/she will take 2 levels ranger to get the two weapon feat not to mention the favorite enemy bonuses. Be carefull but it is your game.

Roland St. Jude
2005-09-29, 02:17 PM
I know, how about sword-chucks?

FlashFire
2005-09-29, 02:22 PM
Most people will find that the weapon that they created has already been created. Funny how history has proven we've exhausted ways to kill each other? Even the bullet is just a lead arrow. :-)

But in any case.. Sword chucks? Slashing nunchaku.

Works, doesn't it?

Kalbereth
2005-09-29, 02:25 PM
Here is a weapon which the idea I got from the Wheel of Time books by Robert Jordan. One of the main characters finds a weapon during the series which can't be broken or dulled and other special properties (though that's not the significant thing here, that involved magical power)

The cool thing about the weapon was that it was effectively a spear with a blade about two feet long shaped like a short sword. So rather than stabbing, you would slash with it.

So...

(I forget the name, though it had one)
Exotic Two Handed Melee weapon
Dam - 1d6/1d6 Slashing(Blade end) Bludgeoning (staff end)
100 gp
Double weapon
crit 19-20/x2

Thoughts?

Fhaolan
2005-09-29, 02:51 PM
Here is a weapon which the idea I got from the Wheel of Time books by Robert Jordan. One of the main characters finds a weapon during the series which can't be broken or dulled and other special properties (though that's not the significant thing here, that involved magical power)

The cool thing about the weapon was that it was effectively a spear with a blade about two feet long shaped like a short sword. So rather than stabbing, you would slash with it.

So...

(I forget the name, though it had one)
Exotic Two Handed Melee weapon
Dam - 1d6/1d6 Slashing(Blade end) Bludgeoning (staff end)
100 gp
Double weapon
crit 19-20/x2

Thoughts?

I'm not going to comment on the stats at the moment, but just on the concept.

The instructor for my medieval stage combat training, has this thing about glaives. And what he calls a glaive is what you described above. A quarterstaff-like weapon with a sword blade on one end. Although he prefers the staff a bit shorter, about three to four feet long. He said he found historical evidence for this weapon, although I've not tried looking myself.

There's a lot of them in the group, and I'll tell you why. Modern-made swords that are used for stage combat do break occasionally, and they tend to break at the exact same point: Where the blade transitions into the tang (which is inserted into the hilt, for those not familiar with the term 'tang' in this usage). Because we're a large stage-combat troupe, and we tend to use cheaper steel swords (can't afford the expensive ones), we end up with a lot of broken swords. So, we take the perfectly good blade and mount it on on a stick, ususally a maul handle from the hardware store, rivit it there with long brass rivets, and wrap the join up with leather to make it look more 'authentic'. Our fight instructor says this would have been a good lower-class weapon, from broken sword blades salvaged from the battlefields. Again, I haven't bothered to confirm this assertion yet.

Now, as for the stats: In my game, I call this a Short Glaive, as opposed to the Full Glaive that appears in the PHB. I give it the same stats as a Short Spear, but with slashing damage instead of piercing.

Sundog
2005-09-30, 02:27 AM
Even the bullet is just a lead arrow.

Other way around, actually. Lead sling bullets may actually pre-date arrows.

Gordon
2005-09-30, 08:05 AM
Other way around, actually. Lead sling bullets may actually pre-date arrows.

And to take it further, the lead sling bullet is just a high-tech rock.

Here's what I've noticed about player-designed weapons. I've never-- ever-- seen a player come up with a weapon and present it with the words, "It's kind of like this other already published weapon, but it's slightly less effective." It's always more so. Bigger damage dice, bigger reach, bigger crit range, bigger crit mutliplier, added trip ability, something.

richelieu
2005-09-30, 12:59 PM
Good point Gordon.
If I were this player's DM, for one thing I would not allow him to be a half-ogre at all. And I certianly wouldn't allow him to be a ninja. What self-respecting ninja academy would accept this huge hulking lug? He might be accepted at Barbarian school, so maybe this DM should suggest he go there, and furthermore leave the weapon designing to the dwarves.

SpiderBrigade
2005-09-30, 01:01 PM
I've never-- ever-- seen a player come up with a weapon and present it with the words, "It's kind of like this other already published weapon, but it's slightly less effective." It's always more so. Bigger damage dice, bigger reach, bigger crit range, bigger crit mutliplier, added trip ability, something.

That's very true, and I can't decide how I feel about it. On the one hand it smells like powergaming or trying to get benefits for nothing. On the other hand some players like to build their RP design around using a certain "weird" weapon. I *usually* just use the rules for an existing weapon but describe it differently.

If they insist on having the extra tripping, weird crits, etc, then they're going to be using the same non-magical, not-even-masterwork weapon for a long time. Just because the character has this weird weapon doesn't force the DM to make them common.

Otomodachi
2005-09-30, 01:24 PM
Sword-chucks, yo.

idksocrates
2005-09-30, 04:28 PM
taking existing weapons and making exotic, more powerful versions, is very common and a crime commited by my group. One example is the leadweight staff, which is pretty much an exotic quarterstaff that does 1d8/1d8 instead of normal damage.

Then again, it's actually less powerful than other double weapons. It still has a crit of only x2, as compared to the 19-20/x2 of the 2bladed sword, or the x3 of the orc doulbe axe, and it requires the same feat to use. It does cost less (30 gp), but later in the game, the minimal difference in price is greatly outweighed by the lack of critical.

Darnon
2005-09-30, 05:01 PM
It's not that strange, really. That's about the same as a double hammer (which my ranger character uses to great effect)

Gordon
2005-09-30, 06:20 PM
Sword-chucks, yo.

dude! Rat Flail!

phiris
2006-07-28, 05:28 AM
Here is a weapon which the idea I got from the Wheel of Time books by Robert Jordan. One of the main characters finds a weapon during the series which can't be broken or dulled and other special properties (though that's not the significant thing here, that involved magical power)

The cool thing about the weapon was that it was effectively a spear with a blade about two feet long shaped like a short sword. So rather than stabbing, you would slash with it.

So...

(I forget the name, though it had one)
Exotic Two Handed Melee weapon
Dam - 1d6/1d6 Slashing(Blade end) Bludgeoning (staff end)
100 gp
Double weapon
crit 19-20/x2

Thoughts?

that is similar to what one of my caracters tried, but all it is is a naginata in oa with double weap instead of reach and less damage

Hadrian_Emrys
2006-07-28, 05:58 AM
Gom Jabbar
Exotic Light Melee Weapon
Dam - 1 (Piercing)
1000 gp
Crit 16-20/x2

This rare finger gauntlet is tipped with a razor sharp, hollow needle. The needle is linked to a series of chambers that run along the finger. Together, these chambers can contain a vial's worth of fluid at any given time.

:P

Were-Sandwich
2006-07-28, 06:57 AM
The OP's weapon sounds a lot like a serrenjin (sp?). I made stats for one once. Hang on whilst I dig them out
.
.
.
.
OK, found them

Serrenjin
Two handed Exotic WEapon
D6/D6 19-20/x2//x3
5lbs
10gp
Double Weapon, Can trip, Monk Weapon

OK, so it doesn't have reach, sue me.