wild speculation about the oracle's prophecy on belkar. spoilers.

[theinsulabot]

i tossed this off as a one liner on another thread, but the more i think about it it does make a certain amount of sense. the oracle is a true magnificent bastard, and has all the ability needed to become a new player in the game for control of the gates. what if the prophecy about belkar is a part of a xanatos gambit designed to alter the way things go down at girard's gate for his own ends. roy, and probably haley now, the leaders of the OOTS, are now treating belkar differently then they otherwise would of, because thanks to the oracles unsubstantiated word, they believe, (correctly or not) that he is soon fated to meet his end.

but what i dont understand is why why did the oracle go through such pains to spell it out in the first place, it isnt as if he owed roy anything, and he made a point of remarking on it the first time the OOTS went around. and further, if he was going to pick a member of the OOTS to set up as a patsy, wouldn't belkar be the obvious choice? belkar, who killed him (admittedly not without paying for it) and really, does anyone here really think the ORACLE would of missed seeing that roy would remember what happened in the tower? no, if instead he always intended for roy to see everything, then he sees belkar kill the oracle, and is that much more willing to just write him off when the time come and belkar passes, roy has no lingering questions about WHY he for some reason remembers a prophecy of belkster's death, and therefor doesn't spend a dangerous amount of time thinking about it, and possibly realizing the oracle may be playing his own game

of course what makes this wild and absurd guesswork is i haven't the faintest clue WHY the oracle would be doing it in the first place, but there are some small pieces that seem to fit together.

[factotum]

I think your theory collapses at the first hurdle, because it implies the Oracle can not only see the future, but can arrange things in order for a certain future to take place. If he could do that, why would he have allowed Belkar to kill him in the first place? Why would he be arranging for a Resurrection after an angry druid tears him to pieces the next time he dies?

Nope, all the evidence we've seen shows that what the Oracle foresees is what will come to pass, and the Oracle himself has no ability to change that.

[Atcote]

Actually, I believe this theory has merit - after all, the Oracle loses nothing but a class level (which doesn't seem to affect his powers) by dying - it's probably better FOR people willing to kill him to do so and then think they've done a job well done.

I also doubt that the Oracle was completely unaware that Roy would remember everything he's been told - after all, the Oracle wasn't surprised at seeing a ghost, suggesting he's used to the presense of the undead, and would know the weaknesses (ie, works across, not up?) of his memory charm's field. And upon all this even more, Tiamait seems to be in on something or another... enought to at least KNOW of the IFCC when all the black dragons were killed, so it's possible that they're all in on this together, but the only question is... What's the advantage to knowing Belkar's going to die/thinking that Belkar is going to die?

[Tyrmatt]

Actually, I believe this theory has merit - after all, the Oracle loses nothing but a class level (which doesn't seem to affect his powers) by dying - it's probably better FOR people willing to kill him to do so and then think they've done a job well done.

I also doubt that the Oracle was completely unaware that Roy would remember everything he's been told - after all, the Oracle wasn't surprised at seeing a ghost, suggesting he's used to the presense of the undead, and would know the weaknesses (ie, works across, not up?) of his memory charm's field. And upon all this even more, Tiamait seems to be in on something or another... enought to at least KNOW of the IFCC when all the black dragons were killed, so it's possible that they're all in on this together, but the only question is... What's the advantage to knowing Belkar's going to die/thinking that Belkar is going to die?

This is a valid point. Look at Tiamat's beautiful children, reduced to little more than giant chunks of experience and treasure for greedy adventurers. She has just as much to gain as the Dark One from equal treatment for all "NPC" races. If her personality in Rich's world is anything like the usual one, seeing dragons on an even footing is a huge attraction for her.

[theinsulabot]

I think your theory collapses at the first hurdle, because it implies the Oracle can not only see the future, but can arrange things in order for a certain future to take place. If he could do that, why would he have allowed Belkar to kill him in the first place? Why would he be arranging for a Resurrection after an angry druid tears him to pieces the next time he dies?

Nope, all the evidence we've seen shows that what the Oracle foresees is what will come to pass, and the Oracle himself has no ability to change that.

i didnt say belkar wasn't going to die, though if against all odds it is possible i am onto something i am on the fence on whether or not he will, but lets say he does die, and the oracle knew that was going to happen regardless. ok, fine. the oracle is not tampering with that prophecy. what he is doing is changing OTHER things by giving it for free to roy. the oracle doesn't have to go against his own prophecy to be up to something, he just has to use the framework of it to get roy and the order to think and make decisions differently then they otherwise would of



What's the advantage to knowing Belkar's going to die/thinking that Belkar is going to die?

actually i might be able to field that one. belkar, thanks to his recent faked growth, recently saved haley's life. and is a great warrior. in the time he has left he could well do several other things to convince the oots that he really has changed for the better. if the prophecy hadn't caused roy and haley to write off belkar now, when whatever kills him comes along, they might not try so hard to save him or recover his body, making it a self fulfilling prophecy

[Nimrod's Son]

Actually, I believe this theory has merit - after all, the Oracle loses nothing but a class level (which doesn't seem to affect his powers) by dying - it's probably better FOR people willing to kill him to do so and then think they've done a job well done.
And why exactly would they think that, considering that they won't remember anything about it?

[nogusielkt]

If the prophecy hadn't caused roy and haley to write off belkar now, when whatever kills him comes along, they might not try so hard to save him or recover his body, making it a self fulfilling prophecy
I'm leaning towards this as well. Belkar attempts something dangerous with little chance of survival and their lack of action dooms him. Probably be abandoned in some way. I do, however, think he'll unexpectedly win a tough fight though. I'm pretty sure I remember that old guy telling him to cheat.

[Atcote]

And why exactly would they think that, considering that they won't remember anything about it?

Yeah, I was thinking that after I typed it. Don't really have an answer for you there - maybe The Oracle just finds it easier for people to kill him than to kill them, as they might have as likely a chance to get resurrected (and even if they did, who'd remember?), and risk getting sued? (Hey, it's happened before!) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0329.html)

[Nimrod's Son]

maybe The Oracle just finds it easier for people to kill him than to kill them
He wouldn't have to kill them, though. No one's coming looking for a kobold because no one can remember that he is a kobold. And if the Oracle has any influence over the events that he foresees, as opposed to just having to accept them, then all he'd have to do is hide.

[Atcote]

He wouldn't have to kill them, though. No one's coming looking for a kobold because no one can remember that he is a kobold. And if the Oracle has any influence over the events that he foresees, as opposed to just having to accept them, then all he'd have to do is hide.

Yeah, but he probably makes more gold this way (it's arguable that he pays for his own resurrections, considering The Oracle seems to be Tiamats little helper), and, as evident in a revolving door afterlife world, death really, really isn't something to fear as more than a sting (or being digested).

[Lkctgo]

hmm.. Interesting.