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View Full Version : help with feat and Prc selection [3.5]



Kol Korran
2009-07-16, 11:45 AM
so, i'm new to being a player, mostly been a DM. this is my second character total. i am playing a LG human cleric 5, Deity is the Red Knight (deity of strategic warfare) from forgotten realms. domains: planning and war (not very strong but befitting the character). the type of play very much resembles a paladin, just more focused on spells instead of direct combat.

i am soon leveling up to level 6, and have been starting to think of a PrC, but have found nothing that i find interesting, and that fits the character (examined candidates: divine oracle- not worth 3 levels loss of turn undead. radiant servent of Pelor- love the powers, doesn't realy fit thematically)

so far i think of staying full cleric, but i would love suggestions if you have any. either for now, or the near future.

i'm also debating on what fit to choose. those i have so far:
extend spell (from the planning domain)
spell focus long sword (from the war domain)
spell casting prodigy (1st level human bonus feat)
divine metamagic extend spell. (with 1 min/ level spells this makes many buffs last for 2-4 encounters, if you're in a dungeon, and willing to go fast enough.)
scribe scrolls (fits the "be prepared" theme of strategic planning)

also, i am planning to take leadership at 9th level probably. doesn't fit now for party and plot reasons.

i'm thinking of taking extra turning (have 4 turn attempts/ day so far) to boost both turn attempts and divine extend times. also, it could come usefull in the future if i take more divine feats)

i don't have many books, but my DM does, and most things are allowed, other than anything from other campaigns. (so Eberron is a no no)

so, what say you playgrounders? any help?

P.S: also, something i asked but didn't get an answer for- is there such a spell such as "mass protection from energy"? what level is it? can anyone give me it's specifics?

thanks in advance,
Kol.

quick_comment
2009-07-16, 11:49 AM
1) Drop scribe scroll, its also rubbish
2) Drop weapon focus, its rubbish.
3) Pick up persistent spell, and take DMM: Persist instead of DMM: Extend.

The rest depends on what you want to do.

Eldariel
2009-07-16, 12:00 PM
Church Inquisitor seems like your kind of PrC; it also just happens to be pretty good.

And really, if you do go DMM, I'd go with a metamagic with a heftier cost, like Quicken, Chain or Persistent. I personally like Persist to Persist Mass Lesser Vigor (trust me, your party will LOVE that), Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (when you get it; again, something the party loves) and self-buffs.

As it stands, I'd look into Divine Spell Power to make your Magic Vestments and next level Greater Magic Weapons at +2 and soon +3. Really, I don't think you should go with Spellcasting Prodigy; there are just too many great other feats to pick up.

Saph
2009-07-16, 12:01 PM
The spell you're looking for is Mass Resist Energy, and it's in the Spell Compendium. Very good spell, I recommend it.

Cleric's a perfectly strong class on its own, so you don't actually need a PrC or anything. If you want one, just pick one with full casting and you can't really go wrong.

As for feats - Leadership can cause issues, due to its potential power and the questions of who gets to build/run the character, but it sounds like you've got a plan for that. Works best if integrated into the campaign, which hopefully your DM can manage.

As for feats - Extra Turning is useful. Divine Spell Power is useful. Really, there are loads. I'd have trouble choosing.

- Saph

Irreverent Fool
2009-07-16, 12:04 PM
so, i'm new to being a player, mostly been a DM. this is my second character total. i am playing a LG human cleric 5, Deity is the Red Knight (deity of strategic warfare) from forgotten realms. domains: planning and war (not very strong but befitting the character). the type of play very much resembles a paladin, just more focused on spells instead of direct combat.

i am soon leveling up to level 6, and have been starting to think of a PrC, but have found nothing that i find interesting, and that fits the character (examined candidates: divine oracle- not worth 3 levels loss of turn undead. radiant servent of Pelor- love the powers, doesn't realy fit thematically)

so far i think of staying full cleric, but i would love suggestions if you have any. either for now, or the near future.

i'm also debating on what fit to choose. those i have so far:
extend spell (from the planning domain)
spell focus long sword (from the war domain)
spell casting prodigy (1st level human bonus feat)
divine metamagic extend spell. (with 1 min/ level spells this makes many buffs last for 2-4 encounters, if you're in a dungeon, and willing to go fast enough.)
scribe scrolls (fits the "be prepared" theme of strategic planning)

also, i am planning to take leadership at 9th level probably. doesn't fit now for party and plot reasons.

i'm thinking of taking extra turning (have 4 turn attempts/ day so far) to boost both turn attempts and divine extend times. also, it could come usefull in the future if i take more divine feats)

i don't have many books, but my DM does, and most things are allowed, other than anything from other campaigns. (so Eberron is a no no)

so, what say you playgrounders? any help?

P.S: also, something i asked but didn't get an answer for- is there such a spell such as "mass protection from energy"? what level is it? can anyone give me it's specifics?

thanks in advance,
Kol.

Assuming PrCs with full spellcasting advancment, full cleric doesn't do anything for you except increase your turning which is starting to become useless about the time you can PrC. The problem with turn undead is that HD (especially undead HD) go up faster than CR does. So I definitely recommend getting out of cleric as soon as possible. You'll still have your turning attempts and there actually are PrCs that gain/advance turning (which makes one wonder why cleric has more than 5 levels).

Church Inquisitor seems to match your concept, but I would suggest taking Radiant Servant of Pelor and re-fluffing it, if the mechanics suit your purposes.

Edit: Church Inquisitor ninjas!

Bear in mind that to take divine metamagic you are supposed to have the metamagic feat you are applying it to first. This was errata'd. It's cheesy already. No need to make it cheesier by taking it without a prereq.

If you're looking for more turning attempts and your DM allows it, don't waste a feat. Buy nightsticks. They are incredibly cheesy when combined with divine metamagic. Each one grants additional turning attempts and they have no restriction on how many you can own. If you are allowed to get nightsticks, aim for Divine Metamagic: Persist and go to town. Persist divine power and you are now a better fighter than the fighter. It only gets better from there. Getting up to this will take most your feats. I think Persist has prerequisites and then you must take Persist itself and Divine Metamagic. Of course, if your DM is allowing you to take Divine Metamagic without the prerequisite feat, go to town.

obnoxious
sig

mcl01
2009-07-16, 12:06 PM
You may want to take the prestige Paladin option in Unearthed Arcana if you want it to be paladin-like. You pretty much get all the normal paladin goodies (if slightly weaker) plus better spellcasting.

There's a dragon compendium feat I believe that allows you to fuel your paladin features with WIS instead of CHA as well. I believe it's called Serenity.

Another option could be Fist of Raziel from BoED if you want near-full cleric spellcasting with some smiting goodness.

Also, you might want to mention what type of game your DM plans on running. Is he heavily against powergaming and broken/cheesiness? Even if he isn't, as a newer player I'd recommend staying with something simple yet effective.

Edge
2009-07-16, 12:12 PM
Also, my memory may be failing, be I thought the Red Knight was CN? In that case, your character's alignment needs to be within one step of that - CG, CN or CE.

Kol Korran
2009-07-16, 01:27 PM
damn! i got out for awhile, and so many responses so fast! thanks people!

i'll try to answer a few things:
1) i've allready started playing with the character, and no- we can't change decisions we've made.

Quick comment: i know weapon focus is kinda lame, but it comes with the war domain, and that was a must due to the character's background. besides- it realy fits him to wield a long sword.
as to the scribe scroll- i found it quite usefull so far. i love packing all kind of spells which are not often memorised. we're always under a time pressure, so we can't just hole up and memorise spells again. we got short breaks between action full times, and we need to come prepared.

Eladriel:
the church inquisitor might suit the bill, if it wasn't for the fullf, which realy doesn't. but maybe we can refluff it. thanks!

not sure about the persistent spell DMM, maybe i'll pick it up later. since i don't want to be utterly without turn attempts, ands since i currently have only 4, i first need the extra turning in order to have enough "divine enrgy" to do this trick.
question: why settle for Lesser vigor if you're going that way? you can go for greater vigor, or other higher level spells.

Divine Spell power seem like a good feat. thanks for the advice.

Saph: i'm honored! woohoo! but back to what you wrote- i know the mass resist spell, but i was sure i saw an even stronger version of energy protection. oh well, maybe i can research it? we're about to face a dragon, and i want to be prepared (my character sort of tries to be the batman cleric... sigh)

as to leadership- the groups sort of decided i'm their leader, so i thought to play it up a bit. the DM and I are well aware of possible problems, so we've decided on a few basic guidelines:
- the main reasons for the cohort are roleplay reasons, and support. it's going to be built to entice reactions from all the group, not just me, and to fill in the gaps (so far we're lacking any realy sneaky character)
- it's not to outshine or outdo any of the normal characters.
- it should have failry simple game mechanics, so as not to lengthen/ bog the game. again, a rogue sounds optimal.
- i control it's actions in battle, the DM controls the rest, including roleplay.
- lastly, and importently- the cohort is treated as part of the group, not solely mine, though it takes most of it's leads and guidance from me.

Irreverent Fool: first of all- great nick and avatar! i don't fully agree with you about the CRs and DCs, talking from the DM's seat- the escalation is true for skeletons, zombies and other low power undead, but not to liches, vampires and the sort, at least to my experience. in my campaign my clerics needed their turn attempts.

i can't relay see how to refluff radiant servent of pelor to my character concept, but i'll suggest it to the DM

as to nightsticks. my DM doesn't know of them, he'll allow them i'd guess, but no way am i going to use that. i want the game to be fun and challanging, and i don't enjoy cheese. thanks for the suggestion though.

mcl01: i have paladin personality apsects, but i hate the mechanics of it. plus- i play as a support caster, not as the prime fighter. i leave that to the barbarian dwarf...

i'm not sure either me or my DM have the BoED, but i'll ask.

as to the sort of game we're playing? anything allowed as long as it's fun. moderate powergaming (now there's an odd term) is allowed, as long as you don't come close to real cheese or game breaking. most players (including myself) haven't played in years (i have DMed, but that's different), we're playing a published module that is not that optimized against the players, so things are fairly ok so far. challanging, but fun.

edge: the Red Knight's allignment is LN. my character is a bit odd to the church, obviously passionate and sometimes not claculating and analyzing. i'm having all kind of fun issues to roleplay with the religion, and my take on it, for good and bad. i like it.

thanks for the advice again people!

Mongoose87
2009-07-16, 01:37 PM
If you want to turn effectively, ask your DM to take a look at the Pathfinder rules' Channeling. It's much better and more effective. My DM uses it exclusively, now.

quick_comment
2009-07-16, 01:48 PM
For prcs, ask your dm if you can refluff the ruby knight vindicator in the book of 9 swords to be for the red knight. Maybe you can also take one of the schools it grants maneuvers to and switch it to white raven, because of your devotion to the god of strategy.

Irreverent Fool
2009-07-16, 02:24 PM
Weapon Focus is a great feat when you get it for free as part of the War domain.

I've only ever found turning to be useful at higher levels when it is enhanced via feats. If you plan to use it much, I highly recommend Disciple of the Sun from Complete Divine. It allows you to spend an extra turn attempt to destroy undead you would have otherwise turned.

If you plan to use turning A LOT, I also recommend Empower Turning (CoD) and -- if you can get your DM to allow 3rd-party feats -- Sustained Turning (Quintessential Cleric).

Empower Turning allows you to multiply your turning damage by 1.5
Sustained Turning allows you to spend extra rounds 'channeling' a turning attempt. Each round of channeling costs an extra turn attempt but increases your maximum HD affected by 1 HD and increases turning damage by 1d6 (which is then multiplied by Empower Turning).

When combined, these feats make a cleric a walking engine of undead destruction. Pretty heavy investment though.

Disciple of the Sun is a must-have for any campaign featuring undead.

obnoxious
sig

Kol Korran
2009-07-16, 02:39 PM
too many options to choose from... i want DMM (which require another feat before), and divine spell power, and leadership, and desciple of the sun... oh well, i'll just have to choose then.

i'm intrigued the ruby knight, but unfortunatly i don't have it, and i think my DM doesn't either. i'll try and look it up though

Edge
2009-07-16, 02:42 PM
edge: the Red Knight's allignment is LN. my character is a bit odd to the church, obviously passionate and sometimes not claculating and analyzing. i'm having all kind of fun issues to roleplay with the religion, and my take on it, for good and bad. i like it.

thanks for the advice again people!

Yeah, on checking the FRCS, turns out I was thinking of Tempus. Hey, his hoyl symbol's red, cut me some slack. :smalltongue:

Saph
2009-07-16, 11:55 PM
Saph: i'm honored! woohoo! but back to what you wrote- i know the mass resist spell, but i was sure i saw an even stronger version of energy protection. oh well, maybe i can research it? we're about to face a dragon, and i want to be prepared (my character sort of tries to be the batman cleric... sigh)

Resist Energy can be better than Protection from Energy over a sustained period of time. You're level 6 now, right? If you take Divine Spell Power you can use that to push your caster level up to 7, which will give everyone resist 20. That should probably be enough.

Or you could research Mass Protection from Energy. For clerics, Resist Energy is level 2, Mass Resist Energy is level 3, Protection from Energy is level 3, so I guess Mass Protection from Energy would be level 4.

- Saph

Doc Roc
2009-07-17, 02:14 AM
If you like FULLLLLL CHeeeeeSE: Slotless relinquary holy symbols, from the MiC.
Excessively function, and extremely awesome.

Who doesn't want to be surrounded by a swarm of little holy jars? I, as a GM, do not recommend or condone this course of action, but joking about it with your GM is generally pretty funny, and helps establish you as a good dude who will in fact not break the party-balance.