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VikingSamurai
2009-07-16, 12:46 PM
Okay, so one day I was playing Baldur's Gate II and I thought about converting the Kensai to 3.5 ed. I have edited and added several things, looking at several forum entries and also making things up.

Just to clarify, this is a base class.


Kengou:
Information:

This class consists of a warrior who has been specially trained to be one with his sword. They are deadly, fast and trained to fight without encumbrance. They generally learn through specialization of a specific weapon. The title “Kengou” is often given to warriors of amazing skill, this class is usually taken by characters who are essentially Kenseis-in-training. Upon joining a dojo, the Kengou makes four sacred oaths:
(#1) The Kengou must aspire to master their chosen weapon (if they start using a weapon that isn't their chosen one and do not use their chosen weapon for two weeks, unless there is no alternative), lest they become fallen
(#2) The Kengou must never, at any point use a ranged weapon, lest they become fallen
(#3)The Kengou must obey their master(s) (if applicable), lest they become fallen
(#4)The Kengou must uphold their beliefs (stay true to their alignment), lest they become fallen.

Advantages:

-When a Kengou begins his/her training, he selects whether he/she wants to dual-wield or use one weapon. This results in either a + 2 bonus to AC.(deflection bonus), the penalty for dual-wielding is reduced by 4 OR he/she gains +2 to damage(with two-handed weapons). This starts at level 1 and at level 5, 10, 15, 20 (and so on if using epic levels) either there is a +1 deflection bonus, +1 to initiative or +1 to damage respectively. This is chosen at 1st level and it only applies to the Kengou's chosen weapon. At levels 5,10,15,20,25 and 30 the Kengou gains feats related to his/her combat style.

- May use the “Kai” ability one time per day for every 4 levels (starts at 1st level with one use). This ability lasts 6 seconds and makes all of the attacks made by the Kengou do maximum damage.

-Has the ability to select a “Weapon of choice”. This gives all the weapon focuses and weapon specializations after the prerequisites are met, but not neccessarily as soon as they have been met (this includes epic versions of these feats). These feats can only be used with the chosen weapon and are disabled in heavy armor. Medium armor will only allow the use of weapon focus and weapon specialization.

-Arrow Cutting: A Kengou may deflect arrows with his/her chosen weapon. This works like the Deflect Arrows feat but the kengou may deflect one arrow per round per 3 levels. When an arrow is deflected it is destroyed by the Kengou's blade. This starts at 2nd level and continues.

-Throw Weapon: The Kengou may throw his/her chosen weapon with a range increment of 15'. If the weapon is already capable of being thrown, its range increment increases by another 10'.

-Quick Sheathe: The Kengou may sheathe his/her weapon as a free action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

-Close Combat: The Kengou may use his/her chosen weapon while grappling, as long as it isn't large or bigger.

-Run: At first level, a Kengou gains run. Only usable in light or no armor.

-Improved Initiative: At first level, a Kengou receives Improved Initiative as a bonus feat. Only wearing light or no armor and carrying at most a medium load.

-Dodge: At 2nd level, the Kengou gains Dodge as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. Only wearing light or no armor and carrying at most a medium load.

-Mobility: At 3rd level, the Kengou gains Mobility as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. Only wearing light or no armor and carrying at most a medium load.

-Spring Attack: At 6th level, the Kengou gains Spring Attack as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. Only wearing light or no armor and carrying at most a medium load.

-Evasion: At 7th level, the Kengou suffers no ill effects if he suceeds on a Reflex save against an effect with a save of Reflex half. The Kengou only benefits from this ability when wearing light or no armor and carrying at most a medium load.

-May use a "kenki attack", the target must make a successful will save against a D.C. equal to the kengou's intimidate check + str mod and level modifier (in other words, every 5 levels in the class gives the kengou a +1 bonus on kenki attacks) or be demoralised. On a critical failure, the target is paralyzed by fear.

-Once he reaches level 30, a Kengou is as strong as his master. He has the choice of challenging his master to a fight and if he wins, he no longer has to obey his masters' orders. (A Kengou's master is usually a Kengou of level 30, if higher then they will take levels in CW Kensai (if not, they will take levels in monk))

Disadvantages:

-Because they often frown upon the use of weapons that aren't bladed ones (or simple ones), the Kengou is not proficient with any kind of ranged or non-bladed weapon and must take proficiency in them or suffer a -8 penalty (or whatever the penalty is with using them-4) on all attempts to use them. Also, class offensive abilities do not apply to these.

-The Kengou cannot take: weapon focus, greater weapon focus, weapon specialization, greater weapon specialization, improved critical or power critical in any weapon other than their weapon of choice because he/she specializes in that weapon and thus neglects other weapons.

-When wearing higher than medium armor, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a kengou loses his/her AC bonus, as well as his/her class features/abilities. If carrying/using a shield, a Kengou is subject to a -2 penalty to hit (don't see how shields would limit class abilities).

-Gauntlets can often get in the way of the Kengou's fighting style, causing a -2 penalty to hit. The Kengou can take a feat to negate this (Gauntlet Grandmastery) however, incorporating it into his fighting style. Gloves and bracers however, do not limit the Kengou's combat capabilities. Padded gloves induce a -1 penalty to hit

-Because the Kengou learns through specialization, he neglects all weapons that he doesn't specialize in, and thus he suffers a -2 penalty to hit with bladed weapons that aren't his chosen weapon.

-If a Kengou chooses to use a ranged weapon he/she becomes fallen (breaking one of their oaths).

-If a Kengou disobeys their master (if they have one), they will also become fallen.

-If a Kengou does not stay true to his/her alignment, he/she will become fallen.

-Becoming fallen means that the Kengou may not take further levels in Kengou until he/she atones, and until he/she atones, he/she loses all advantages (and ougis) apart from Chosen Weapon due to inner turmoil (so the Kengou cannot concentrate on fighting). There will also be active assassination attempts if the Kengou has commited a serious crime - such as murder. Assassination attempts are usually carried out by Kengou, especially if the crime committed has affected them negatively. The assassination attempts will only be carried out if the organization of Kengou (or what have you) know of the crime that has been committed, and that the Kengou that committed the crime is known to have done so.

-If using simple weapons, a Kengou loses all offensive abilities of his class.

General info:

-Proficient with all bladed weaponry (that can use slashing damage) and simple weaponry.

-Not proficient with armour or shields.

-HD:D10

-Class Skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Profession, Swim, Sense Motive and Tumble.

-Alignment: any non-chaotic.

-Same multiclass restrictions as the monk.

-Wisdom is used for A.C. (unarmored only) on top of dexterity.

-Skill points: 4 + intelligence modifier (X4 at first level).

-bonus feats: Same as fighter + class-specific feats.

Class-Specific Feats:

Noutou Jutsu:

"Noutou Jutsu-Himeikou"
Prerequisites: Kengou, Base Attack Bonus +1, Dex 10+
Specifics: The Kengou sheathes his sword with god-like speed, all creatures within a 15-foot radius of the Kengou must make a successful fortitude save against the D.C. (10+1/2 your level in kengou+dex mod) or be deafened for 1d4 rounds. Also, if the target has keen hearing (senses?) and fails the save, they take 1d4 sonic damage (once deafened, they cannot take sonic damage until they regain their hearing). Counted as a free action. once you have used himeikou, you cannot use it or any other noutou jutsu until your next turn. This does not work on creatures with no sense if hearing

"Noutou Jutsu-Kyoukou"
Prerequisites: Kengou, Himeikou, Base Attack Bonus +2, Dex 11+
Specifics: The Kengou sheathes his blade with god-like speed, all creatures within a 15-foot radius of the Kengou must make a successful fortitude save against the D.C. (10+1/2 your level in Kengou+dex mod) or begin to tremble violently, suffering a -2 temporary dex mod, a loss of all dodge bonuses, and all spellcasters affected must make a concentration check in order to be able to cast the desired spell for 1d4 rounds. Counted as a free action. Once you have used Kyoukou, you cannot use it or any other noutou jutsu until your next turn. Golems, earth elementals and shambling mounds will be unaffected by this feat.

"Noutou Jutsu-Oumukou"
Prerequisites: Kengou, Himeikou, Kyoukou, Base Attack Bonus +3, Dex 12+
Specifics: The Kengou sheathes his blade with god-like speed, all creatures within a 15-foot radius of the Kengou must make a successful fortitude save against the D.C. (10+1/2 your level in Kengou+dex mod) or be stunned for 1d4 rounds. Obviously, creatures that are immune to stunning effects are not affected by this spell. Counted as a free action. Once you have used Oumukou, you cannot use it or any other noutou jutsu until your next turn.

Battou Jutsu:

Itoryuu:

"Battou Jutsu-Itouryuu Iai"
Prerequisites: Quick Draw, Kengou, Base Attack Bonus +6, Dex 10+
Specifics: The Kengou can use an “Iai” as an attack of opportunity(if he has the “quick draw” feat and his sword(s) sheathed), drawing his weapon with a god-like speed and ferocity. Due to the god-like speed in the drawing, the target is considered flatfooted against an Iai. Iai cannot be used with weapons a size category larger than the Kengou without a -4 penalty. Once he/she has hit level 10, the Kengou can take a feat to dual-iai (Battoujutsu-Nitoryuu Iai). The Kengou can use the iai as a free action if he/she so decides to use it on his/her turn. Once an iai has been performed, the Kengou may not sheathe his/her weapon and do another iai until the next round (or aoo). Can only be used in light or no armor.

Nitoryuu:

"Battou Jutsu-Nitouryuu Iai"
Prerequisites: Quick Draw, Itouryuu Iai, Kengou, Base Attack Bonus +10, Dex 12+
Specifics: The Kengou becomes able draw two of his chosen weapons with god-like speed at the same time. Can only be used in light or no armor

Daitoryuu:

"Battou Jutsu-Daitouryuu Iai"
Prerequisites: Quick Draw, Itouryuu Iai, Kengou, Base Attack Bonus +10, Dex 10+
Specifics: This feat eliminates the penalty for using weapons a size category larger than the Kengou (but not above 1 size category). Can only be used in light or no armor.

Miscellaneous:

"Gauntlet Grandmastery"
Prerequisites: Kengou, Base Attack Bonus +2
Specifics: This feat counteracts the penalties of wearing gauntlets and padded gloves that come with the Kengou.

"Gashou"
Prerequisites: Run, Base Attack Bonus +5
Specifics: The Kengou charges toward the target with amazing speed (target is flat-footed and cannot make an attack of opportunity). If the Kengou uses one-handed style, he gains an extra +2 to hit on top of charge bonuses. Two-handed style gets +2 to damage and two-weapon style gets an attack with his other sword-arm on top of the first. Can only be used in light or no armor. If this feat is taken by a character who is not a Kengou, they do not gain any of the bonuses granted by styles. This feat cannot be used in heavy armor, and if used in medium armor, the target is not flat-footed.

"Seishinryoku"
Prerequisites: Monk or Kengou, Wis 12+
Specifics: The Monk/Kengou can successfully channel his/her willpower into their attacks. This means that the Monk/Kengou may use their wisdom bonus to hit and damage instead of their strength bonus, if it is higher, in all melee attacks. The Kengou refer to this as "Seishinryoku", while monks tend to use the term "Strength of mind".

"Jukutatsu"
Prerequisites: Kengou, level 20
Note: Gained automatically when prerequisites are met
The Kengou's chosen weapon becomes an extension of his body. This has three effects, first is that he/she gains the ability to deal lethal or non lethal damage with no penalty, and can use it as if it were under the effects of a freedom of movement spell. Finally he/she gains an extra strike at his/her full base attack bonus while wielding his/her chosen weapon when performing a full attack. This is commonly referred to as weapon mastery.

"Still Mind"
Prerequisites: Monk 3rd or Kengou 8th
Note: The Monk gains this feat automatically at 3rd level
Specifics: The Monk/Kengou gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against spells and effects from the school of enchantment.

"Sashi-tooshi" Pronounced "tohshi"
Prerequisites: Kengou 15th level
Note: This feat is gained automatically when a Kengou reaches level 15
Specifics: The Kengou can impale another creature, causing massive damage. If the Kengou hits (using his/her highest to-hit bonus), he deals whatever amount of damage a hit from his weapon would do X2 (this is doubled or multiplied by whatever the critical multiplier is on a critical hit). The target must make a fortitude save against a D.C. equal to 10+1/2 the Kengou's level+Wis mod of the Kengou or die. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be affected by this. This technique can only be used once a week.

"Gensen"
Prerequisites: Kengou, Dex 14+
Specifics: The Kengou may sacrifice all attacks on his/her turn to perform a Gensen. The Kengou makes many high-speed movements with his/her blade, throwing his/her opponent off-guard, and then moves to strike a vital area at his/her highest attack bonus. The target is given a spot check against a D.C. equal to 10+1/2 the Kengou's level+Dex mod to see the incoming strike. If it fails, it is caught flat-footed and the Kengou deals the normal damage of one hit plus the damage of a sneak attack of a rogue of equal level to the Kengou. If the Kengou uses the nitoryuu style, he/she gets a second hit, but only a normal hit against the target, not a sneak attack. Everything that is immune to sneak attacks only takes normal damage and ignores the sneak attack damage. Golems and other non-intelligent creatures cannot be thrown off-guard by this, and thus are not considered flat-footed.

Style-Related Feats:

Itouryuu:

"Itouryuu Ougi-Mekkyoukufusetsu"
Prerequisites: 30 levels in Kengou, Itoryuu Combat Style
Note: Gained automatically when prerequisites are met
Specifics: The Kengou explodes into a whirlwind of destruction. This feat works like improved whirlwind attack, but all attacks made in Mekkyoukufusetsu are at a +6 bonus, the Kengou can attack one opponent up to three times, and he/she does not have to forfeit any bonuses. This attack can be used once per week. After using this ougi, the Kengou is weakened greatly and suffers a -15 penalty to hit and damage for 3 rounds. This can only be used in light or no armor.

Nitouryuu

"Nitouryuu Ougi-Chimannenku"
Prerequisites: 30 levels in Kengou, Nitoryuu Combat Style
Note: Gained automatically when prerequisites are met
Specifics: The Kengou goes into a state of super-speed for 1 round (on his turn, free action to activate) and can make double his/her normal amount of attacks with no penalties (basically just repeats the first string of attacks, although he/she cannot use the extra attack from the "weapon mastery" feat in this), plus a finishing move at your third highest plus to hit that unless the target makes a will save against a D.C. equal to 10+1/2 your level in Kengou+your wisdom modifier, it is instantly destroyed (presuming it lived through the first string of attacks). This attack can be used once per week. Only in light or no armor and with the Kengou's chosen weapon. After using this ougi, the Kengou is weakened greatly and suffers a -15 penalty to hit and damage for 3 rounds.

Daitouryuu

"Daitouryuu ougi-Kuuretsu"
Prerequisites: 30 levels in Kengou, Daitoryuu Combat Style
Note: Gained automatically when prerequisites are met
Specifics: The Kengou forfeits all other attacks in his/her turn to do a powerful overhead swing with his/her chosen weapon, with a to-hit bonus of his/her first two attacks combined. Damage is X5, unless it is a critical in which case it is (damage X5) X whatever critical modifier you have. There is a 25% chance the target is decapitated (or cleaved or whatever is appropriate in the situation) on a normal hit, and a 75% chance on a critical hit. This attack can be used once per week. Only in light or no armor and with the Kengou's chosen weapon. After using this ougi, the Kengou is weakened greatly and suffers a -15 penalty to hit and damage for 3 rounds.

Epic abilities:

"Epic Kai"
Prerequisites: ability to use 6 kais, wisdom 16+
Specifics: Kai now lasts for a full 18 seconds

The Kengou
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus (+epic bonus)|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+2|1st Kai, Bonus Feat, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus with c/w

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+0|
+3|Bonus Feat, 1st Arrow Cut, Dodge

3rd|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+3| Mobility

4th|
+4|
+1|
+1|
+4|Weapon Specialization with c/w

5th|
+5|
+1|
+1|
+4|2nd Arrow Cut, 2nd Kai

6th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+2|
+5|Spring Attack, Bonus Feat

7th|
+7/+2|
+2|
+2|
+5|Evasion

8th|
+8/+3|
+2|
+2|
+6|3rd Arrow Cut, Greater Weapon Focus with c/w

9th|
+9/+4|
+3|
+3|
+6|3rd Kai

10th|
+10/+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Bonus Feat

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+3|
+3|
+7|4th Arrow Cut

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+4|
+4|
+8|Greater Weapon Specialization with c/w

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+4|
+4|
+8|4th Kai

14th|
+14/+9/+3|
+4|
+4|
+9|Bonus Feat, 5th Arrow Cut

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+5|
+5|
+9|Sashi-tooshi

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+5|
+10|

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+10|5th Kai, 6th Arrow Cut

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+6|
+11|Bonus Feat

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12|7th Arrow Cut, Weapon Mastery

21st|
+21/+16/+11/+6/+1|
+6|
+6|
+12|6th Kai

22nd|
+21/+16/+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+7|
+13|Bonus Feat

23rd|
+22/+17/+12/+7/+2|
+7|
+7|
+13|8th Arrow Cut

24th|
+22/+17/+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+8|
+14|Epic Weapon Focus with c/w

25th|
+23/+18/+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+8|
+14|7th Kai

26th|
+23/+18/+13/+8/+3|
+9|
+9|
+15|9th Arrow Cut, Bonus Feat

27th|
+24/+19/+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+9|
+15|

28th|
+24/+19/+14/+9/+4|
+10|
+10|
+16|Epic Weapon Specialization with c/w

29th|
+25/+20/+15/+10/+5|
+10|
+10|
+16|8th Kai, 10th Arrow Cut

30th|
+25/+20/+15/+10/+5|
+11|
+11|
+17|Bonus Feat, Ougi[/table]

Fighting Styles
{table=head]Level|Itouryuu|Daitouryuu|Nitouryuu

1st|
+2 A.C.(deflection), Iron Will|
+2 Damage, Great Fortitude|
Dual-wielding penalty reduced by 4, Lightning reflexes

5th|
+1 A.C.(deflection), Combat expertise|
+1 Damage, Power attack|
+1 Initiative, Two-weapon fighting

10th|
+1 A.C.(deflection), Improved Disarm|
+1 Damage, Cleave|
+1 Initiative, Two-Weapon Defense

15th|
+1 A.C.(deflection), Improved Feint|
+1 Damage, Great Cleave|
+1 Initiative, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting

20th|
+1 A.C.(deflection), Whirlwind Attack|
+1 Damage, Improved Overrun|
+1 Initiative, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting

25th|
+1 A.C.(deflection), Improved Whirlwind Attack|
+1 Damage, Epic Toughness|
+1 Initiative, Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting

30th|
+1 A.C.(deflection), Armor Skin, Mekkyoukufusetsu|
+1 Damage, Great Strength, Kuuretsu|
+1 Initiative, Two-Weapon Rend, Chimannenku[/table]

There is an extra attack granted at epic levels, this is lost if the Kengou is wearing medium or heavy armour and carrying more than a medium load.

At the moment I'm not too sure whether it's balanced enough and would appreciate some feedback.

[Shameless self-promotion]
See also:
Golden Avariel (race) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119071)
Improved Monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6725511#post6725511)
[/Shameless self-promotion]

Sissyphus
2009-07-16, 01:13 PM
Welcome to the forums :smallwink:

Looks fairly good, but if it could be reformatted into a table that would help most people (check this thread a guide to homebrewing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10313) to see simple table code. Most people respond best to table and good formatting.

a small note, since it appears to have 20 levels, your making it a base class right? (instead of complete warriors prestige class)

the Kai ability has one issue, a round lasts 6 seconds, so bump to twelve or drop to 6, either way 10 won't work.

For the Dual weilding combat track, you could try granting like a rangers combat track or the penalty for dual wielding is reduced by 4

for Iai try when a Kensai could make an attack of oppertunity (opponent comes within reach) you gain a +4 bonus and consider the foe flatfooted. (it's rather similar to attack of opportunity, so having to ready an action is a big penalty, even if the rewards is having your foe be flat footed)

The improved initiative bonus, try when wearing light to no armor, not no armor (apply to the whole chain of bonus feats)

looks good though (if it is a base class then you need to give it some stuff for later levels)

Flame of Anor
2009-07-16, 03:30 PM
There's already a 3.5 Kensei in an issue of Dragon.

Sissyphus
2009-07-16, 03:48 PM
I thought it was in Complete warrior D&D 3.5 myself but yeah. no Dm i've ever played with believed in using dragon so i try to stay away from it as much as possible

katarl
2009-07-16, 04:40 PM
Dragon Kensei is just a fighter variant.

I can't read this until paragraphing is added though.

Sissyphus
2009-07-16, 05:46 PM
do you mean Dragon kensai, or Dragon magazines version of Kensai? we were both referring to prestige classes i think

katarl
2009-07-17, 05:27 AM
The Kensei base class is from Dragon 310, which is basically just a fighter with light armour, exotic weapons and two new feats. I much prefer the one in CW.

It's quite an interesting class, but it has several dead levels. Perhaps if you moved tan ability from every 3rd level to 2nd and every 3rd level thereafter, or something similar you'd fill out more levels.

Also, the starting ability needs to be expanded. At the moment it only applies at level 1, but +2 deflection is fairly subpar at high levels.

I'd recommend making this feature more significant, firstly by expanding the ability to two weapon fighting, one handed weapon fighting and two handed weapon fighting, allowing for more versatility.

Two weapon fighting would focus on speed, one handed on defense and two handed on damage, or on combat maneuvres. Eg. -2 attack penalty level one, attack twice in a standard, charge or aoo at another level and so on.

VikingSamurai
2009-07-17, 11:07 AM
"Looks fairly good, but if it could be reformatted into a table that would help most people (check this thread a guide to homebrewing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10313) to see simple table code. Most people respond best to table and good formatting."
Thanks for the link.

"a small note, since it appears to have 20 levels, your making it a base class right? (instead of complete warriors prestige class)"
indeed

"the Kai ability has one issue, a round lasts 6 seconds, so bump to twelve or drop to 6, either way 10 won't work."
I seem to have let that one slip through the net. Thanks.

"For the Dual weilding combat track, you could try granting like a rangers combat track or the penalty for dual wielding is reduced by 4"
That's generally what I meant.

"for Iai try when a Kensai could make an attack of oppertunity (opponent comes within reach) you gain a +4 bonus and consider the foe flatfooted. (it's rather similar to attack of opportunity, so having to ready an action is a big penalty, even if the rewards is having your foe be flat footed)"
Good point, well-noted.

"The improved initiative bonus, try when wearing light to no armor, not no armor (apply to the whole chain of bonus feats)"
Okay.

"looks good though (if it is a base class then you need to give it some stuff for later levels)"
You mean epic or base levels?

VikingSamurai
2009-07-17, 11:33 AM
"It's quite an interesting class, but it has several dead levels. Perhaps if you moved tan ability from every 3rd level to 2nd and every 3rd level thereafter, or something similar you'd fill out more levels."
Done and done, although a class is bound to have at least some dead levels.

"Also, the starting ability needs to be expanded. At the moment it only applies at level 1, but +2 deflection is fairly subpar at high levels."
Noted.

"I'd recommend making this feature more significant, firstly by expanding the ability to two weapon fighting, one handed weapon fighting and two handed weapon fighting, allowing for more versatility."
Thank you for bringing up two-handed, I'd forgotten about that.

"Two weapon fighting would focus on speed, one handed on defense and two handed on damage, or on combat maneuvres. Eg. -2 attack penalty level one, attack twice in a standard, charge or aoo at another level and so on."
Maybe, but I think that giving the Kengou extra attacks like that might be a bit imbalancing, especially if used in conjunction with kai.

VikingSamurai
2009-07-17, 11:50 AM
Hmm, I'm starting to think that this class is getting a bit too imbalanced. Any suggestions?

Sissyphus
2009-07-17, 12:05 PM
"looks good though (if it is a base class then you need to give it some stuff for later levels)"
You mean epic or base levels?
Not quite, when i first looked at it i didn't realize how much it gained in improving abilities at later levels, it looks fun but one thing to note since many people already use the Kensai from complete warrior, another name might be appropriate.

Capstones are always a nice bonus (a good 20th level ability) because they give people to take levels of you class. In the case of the Kensai, a good capstone (based on what i see) would be something like a Weapon mastery: At the 20th level a Kensai is so proficient at wielding his weapon it becomes naught but an extension of his self, striking with utter speed and accuracy. He gains the ability to deal lethal or non lethal damage with no penalty, and can use it as if it were under the effects of a freedom of movement spell. Finally you gain an extra strike at your full base attack bonus while weilding your chosen weapon when performing a full attack

this is basicaly a few effects rolled togethr
1, choose, letahl or non leathal anytime you attack (no penalty)
2, while using the weapon in combat you can't be grappled, when hit by web etc, your weapon arm is un affected (no movement though)

VikingSamurai
2009-07-17, 01:22 PM
That seems like a very good idea, though this class seems to be getting a bit too overpowered. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Sissyphus
2009-07-17, 05:28 PM
While it's powerful in some aspects, any form of capture wrecks it, he can't really wait for the monk to break someone then steal their weapon, because unless it's his proficient weapon he takes penalties for it, toss in a code of honor (like paladins, but less penalties for breaking (ie: you lose freindship/help of any other Kengou, you can't continue Kengou training without atonment, perhaps active assassins). Form the code around the honor of the sword (like samuri) perhaps make ranged weapons anathema for their dishonor using one immediately causes you to fall, also add clauses about oaths and alligence etc, perhaps make it so a Kengou who goes adventuring gets an objective from his masters/trainers, which he must complete, if he's found working against his higherups or braking an oath he gets kicked out.

VikingSamurai
2009-07-18, 04:37 AM
While it's powerful in some aspects, any form of capture wrecks it, he can't really wait for the monk to break someone then steal their weapon, because unless it's his proficient weapon he takes penalties for it, toss in a code of honor (like paladins, but less penalties for breaking (ie: you lose freindship/help of any other Kengou, you can't continue Kengou training without atonment, perhaps active assassins). Form the code around the honor of the sword (like samurai) perhaps make ranged weapons anathema for their dishonor using one immediately causes you to fall, also add clauses about oaths and alligence etc, perhaps make it so a Kengou who goes adventuring gets an objective from his masters/trainers, which he must complete, if he's found working against his higherups or braking an oath he gets kicked out.

Hmm, although there should be some penalties for using ranged weapons, don't you think that's a bit extreme? Then again, it's not like the Kengou can't participate in ranged combat (sword throw). I suppose that would balance it out, though.
Kengou don't necessarily have higherups like that, they walk down the road of mastery in their chosen weapon and normally just use masters as a means of achieving that goal (much like the wizard/apprentice relationship). But I suppose that from time to time they may get the occasional task. I think that I should give players the choice (famous last words) if they have a task or not. It could be fairly annoying to some parties, especially if, say, the Kengou's task was to infiltrate it and kill them all.
Oaths seem like a good idea.

Sissyphus
2009-07-18, 07:31 PM
Glad to be of assistance, that would probably finalize the class and make it pretty balanced too.

VikingSamurai
2009-07-21, 04:32 AM
I'm thinking of introducing ougis, amazing techniques gained when you advance to level 30. I think I should have one for each different style.

VikingSamurai
2009-08-15, 03:21 AM
Any suggestions for anything involving this class would be helpful and appreciated.

deuxhero
2009-08-15, 07:22 PM
Personally I would like to see the inquisitor converted, the immunities would be pretty good in a caster dominated system (3.5)

DracoDei
2009-08-15, 08:19 PM
Epic Attack bonuses do not grant a 5th attack in the progression.

Also(just with skimming), with Wisdom to AC INSTEAD of Dexterity to AC (not AS WELL AS), and only one of the paths granting an AC bonus, they are going to be hurting for AC at lower levels. And when people start upgrading to Rings of Protection they MAY start hurting again.

VikingSamurai
2009-08-16, 05:22 AM
Epic Attack bonuses do not grant a 5th attack in the progression.

Also(just with skimming), with Wisdom to AC INSTEAD of Dexterity to AC (not AS WELL AS), and only one of the paths granting an AC bonus, they are going to be hurting for AC at lower levels. And when people start upgrading to Rings of Protection they MAY start hurting again.

Point taken. I think I'll put the monk unarmed wis bonus on top of dex, then.

Also, about the epic progressions. I know, but I thought that it might be a nice and reasonable bonus for an incredibly quick low-encumberance fighter-type.

One last thing. Yay, new posters!

VikingSamurai
2009-08-16, 05:27 AM
Personally I would like to see the inquisitor converted, the immunities would be pretty good in a caster dominated system (3.5)

That's a good idea, just a warning to all DMs then, DO NOT have a spell-reliant creature facing an inquisitor if you expect it to be challenging :smalltongue:. I might do that at a later date, thanks. One problem, though, and that is that without the turn undead or paladin spells, it may be fairly lacking. But, I'll see what I can do when the time comes.

deuxhero
2009-08-16, 11:02 AM
Oh, be sure to make it alternate class features for the rebalanced paladin, not the PHB one.

Kensen
2009-08-17, 03:27 AM
The penalties for wearing armor seem weird. It would be a better idea to use the same kind of wording as the ranger and monk classes have. For example:

"When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a kensei loses his AC bonus, as well as his [class features] abilities."

and / or

"He loses the benefits of [list of class features] when wearing medium or heavy armor."

Also, it doesn't make sense that a 1st-level Kengou is actually worse at wielding a non-bladed weapon than, say, a 1st-level commoner. Limiting the use of the class abilities to bladed weapons should be enough to deter players from using non-bladed weapons.

Origomar
2009-08-17, 04:35 AM
i dont think its overpowered, if anything i think its underpowered. Then again i was too lazy to look at the feats..

VikingSamurai
2009-08-17, 05:23 AM
The penalties for wearing armor seem weird. It would be a better idea to use the same kind of wording as the ranger and monk classes have. For example:

"When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a kensei loses his AC bonus, as well as his [class features] abilities."

and / or

"He loses the benefits of [list of class features] when wearing medium or heavy armor."

Also, it doesn't make sense that a 1st-level Kengou is actually worse at wielding a non-bladed weapon than, say, a 1st-level commoner. Limiting the use of the class abilities to bladed weapons should be enough to deter players from using non-bladed weapons.

Oooh, good idea.:smallsmile:

VikingSamurai
2009-08-17, 05:52 AM
Oh, be sure to make it alternate class features for the rebalanced paladin, not the PHB one.

Eh? rebalanced? sorry, I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Any references or links? And it may be a short while before I get an inquisitor class up and running though, it seems that monk rebalancing isn't exactly the easiest thing on Toril.