(3.5) 4-5 man, non-PHB base class party.

[Coidzor]

So, what would you choose to fulfill the party role archetypes outside of the 11 PHB classes?

I'm kinda curious as to what it'd look like after considering placing such a restriction upon my Schrodinger's group.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Skills: Beguiler
Melee: Warblade
Divine: Favored Soul
Primary Caster: Artificer, Archivist, or Psion

[Mr.Moron]

Warblade: Brusier
Beguiler: Finds the Traps
2-3 Archivists: Casting.

EDIT: (This is as a player, potentially playing the party. Not so much as a DM)

[DragoonWraith]

I'd guess that one of those Archivists or the Favored Soul could also be replaced with a Factotum, which make great Rogue-replacements.

[AslanCross]

-Warblade
-Beguiler
-Warlock or Psion
-Archivist
-Artificer

[9mm]

meatshield: warblade/crusader/duskblade
skill monkey: Factotum
Healbot: Favored soul/Dragon Shaman
Arm waver: Artificer
5th wheel (face): Beguiler

[Longcat]

Melee: Crusader or Warblade
Skills/Trapfinding: Beguiler or Factotum
Arcane Casting: Psion, Spell-to-power Erudite or Artificer
Divine Casting: Favored Soul or Archivist

[Eldariel]

Melee: Crusader/Ur-Priest/Ruby Knight Vindicator (or Archivist/Sacred Exorcist/Ruby Knight Vindicator if going good)
Skills: Artificer
Divine: Archivist
Arcane: Can I say Wizard here? Plz? Oh, fine, Archivist doing a lot of work! Psion would frankly be the best non-divine substitute - I'm not touching Spells-to-Powers Erudite with a 10ft. pole in a real game. And Psion is no Wizard. Although Shadowcraft Mage Beguiler could probably pull this off...

[quick_comment]

Beatstick: Warblade
Caster: Erudite
Skillmonkey: Factotum
Healer: Archivist

[Piedmon_Sama]

Skills/Flank Support: Scout or Swashbuckler
Main Tank: Duskblade. Poorer armor proficiency than Knight, but can take advantage of flanking.
Healing/Melee Support: Favored Soul. Maybe a Warlock with a wand of Cure Lights, if they don't mind living off potions until he gets his Fool Magic Device ability.
Magic Support/Party Face: Beguiler. Can throw out some enchantments to end fights fast, and has a Hide skill for when they run into Constructs or Undead.

[Eldariel]

Magic Support/Party Face: Beguiler. Can throw out some enchantments to end fights fast, and has a Hide skill for when they run into Constructs or Undead.

Or, y'know, throw around Haste, Greater Invisibility, Images (not Mind-Affecting; very, very useful as unintelligent things can't differentiate between image and real thing and thus keeps hitting the image until told otherwise), Legion of Sentinels, Slow, etc... Beguiler's weakness against things you can't target with mind-affecting is vastly exaggerated.

Oh, and Shadowcraft Mage Beguiler naturally picks up the whole Conjuration- and Evocation-lines too. Does unfortunately place more weight on the divinist's shoulders as he cannot Scry, Contact Other Plane or such. Luckily Archivist and Artificer in the party fill up the holes just fine.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I'm almost tempted to say Artificer, Artificer, Artificer, Artificer, and Artificer, simply because, due to the item-based nature of the class, having one party member fall in combat won't remove a crucial party role (like meatshield or healer, for example). The others can simply pick up the relevant item and fight on.

Though other classes would indeed make this more optimal...I just like the idea.

[Indon]

I'm kinda curious as to what it'd look like after considering placing such a restriction upon my Schrodinger's group.

They're all playing Necropolitans?

In that case, Factotum, Dread Necromancer, Spellthief, and let's throw in a Psionic Warrior for the fun of it.

Do undead have to spend an additional feat to use Psionic abilities? Ah, well, he'll liv... er, he'll cope.

Edit: Oh, fifth member! Scout, Beguiler, or Incarnate (he'll definitely need to spend an extra feat). Or really, anything.

Of course, if we're optimizing, then Artificer, Artificer, Artificer, Artificer, Artificer with 1 level of Factotum.

[wizuriel]

Skills: Beguiler
Melee: Totemist
Divine: Crusader
Primary Caster: Psion
5th wheel: Binder / dragon shamen

[Pharaoh's Fist]

They're all playing Necropolitans?

No, Experts with Skill Focus: Physics.

[Indon]

No, Experts with Skill Focus: Physics.

Ah, that makes sense - Expert sure isn't in the PHB.

[Coidzor]

They're all playing Necropolitans?

Haha. No. It's just uncertain whether or not we'll actually be able to get together at all this summer. ARGH! x.x

Hmm.

[Indon]

Hmm.

...does this mean they're all playing Necropolitans now? :P

Edit: That is to say, is that an exasperated grunt or a thoughtful one?

[woodenbandman]

I never really liked the "4 roles" thing. There are plenty of roles that one or more characters can fill: Tank, DPS, Buffs, Debuffs, Control, Sneak, Face, and trapfinder. Also more than that.

My 5 man party would be

Warblade: DPS, straight up. A little bit of tank.
Psychic Warrior: Tank, secondary DPS
Archivist: Buffs, Control, secondary debuffs
Beguiler: Debuffs, Control
Factotum: secondary everything, primary ranged DPS, Sneak, Trapfinder.

The Psychic Warrior takes a bit of crusader for Thicket of Blades and Crushing Weight of the Mountain. Iron Guard's Glare is also great. The Beguiler and Crusader keep the battlefield in a constant state of disrepair, and the Archivist DMM buffs his friends. The Psychic Warrior then grabs the enemies (literally if necessary), and then the Warblade breaks them over his knee. The factotum is the best fifth wheel in existance. Also he does all their skill needs. Take Chameleon if necessary.

[Thurbane]

Knight
Archivist
Beguiler
Dread Necromancer
Binder

[Vortling]

5 swordsages, because the chance to play an entire party of wandering kung fu masters is too good to pass up no matter how unoptimal it is.

[Coidzor]

...does this mean they're all playing Necropolitans now? :P

Edit: That is to say, is that an exasperated grunt or a thoughtful one?

A thoughtful one. I had a tangent that got eated. :smallfrown: And then I forgot what it was. x.x

It wasn't this one though: What about a party where everyone was at least half-decent in a melee?

[aje8]

So, what would you choose to fulfill the party role archetypes outside of the 11 PHB classes?
Divine: Arhcivist
Arcane: Psion..... they count.
Skills: Factotum or Artificier
Melee: Crusader


It wasn't this one though: What about a party where everyone was at least half-decent in a melee?



Um..... easy except for you need an arcane guy
Cleric, Druid, Factotum are the first 3. If I have to a non-caster melee guy then replace the Druid with Crusader.

For the arcane guy.... depends on the level. At the higher levels straight wizard does just fine via ridiculous self-buffs.
At level 1, probably Duskblade is your only option. In-Between varies by level.

[AslanCross]

It wasn't this one though: What about a party where everyone was at least half-decent in a melee?

-Warblade
-Knight/Crusader
-Duskblade
-Psychic Warrior
-Warlock (Eldritch Glaive Build)

[FMArthur]

Main Caster: Psion
Secondary Caster: Archivist
Beatstick: Warblade
Tank/Secondary Beatstick: Crusader
Pinch-Hitter/skills: Factotum/Chameleon

[thegurullamen]

Tank: Crusader
Skills: Spellthief or Ninja
Damage: Warlock or Swordsage
Healing: Archivist or Bokor
Arcanist: Fixed Truenamer, Artificer or Dread Nec

I like my teams to have a little ideology schizophrenia. Or:

So, a holy warrior, a poison-brewing assassin, a mystic scholar, a backwoods shaman and weirdo walk into a bar...

[quick_comment]

5 swordsages, because the chance to play an entire party of wandering kung fu masters is too good to pass up no matter how unoptimal it is.

That sound pretty awesome actually. Especially if you then gestalt all of them with ninja.

[Haven]

That sound pretty awesome actually. Especially if you then gestalt all of them with ninja.

Or cleric, so they can all be Kung Fu Action Jesus!

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd go with a Beguiler for skills/traps, probably an Illumian Beguiler/ Wu Jen/ Ultimate Magus with Able Learner. Finish the build with Legacy Champion 5 adding +4 levels of UM class features.

The tanky character would be a Water Halfling Dragonborn of Bahamut (Heart aspect) Dragon Shaman, spamming Entangling Exhalation every round with Recover Breath.

Archivist/PrC/PrC is the obvious choice for a primary divine spellcaster. Ur-Priest would be another option for the later levels.

There would probably be a melee damage dealer, such as a Warblade or a Duskblade. I'd probably go into Suel Arcanamach/Abjurant Champion for Wraithstrike and other buffs.

The last character could be a Dread Necromancer who focuses on fear effects (Dreadful Wrath, Frightful Presence, Imperious Command + Never Outnumbered, Ghostly Visage familiar), debuffing, and summoning/creating undead minions. Maybe even go Dread Necro 10/ Ur-Priest 2/ Mystic Theurge 8.

[Uin]

I actually ran a game like this to show people in my gaming community that outside core wasn't a broken mess and that core had some of the worst stuff. None of the people I was trying to convince bothered playing though. We had a:

Artificer
Beguiler
Dragonfire Adept
Psion
Warblade

That game was made of pure win.

[Tempest Fennac]

I'd use: Crusader focusing on Devoted Spirit and White Raven maneuvers (primary melee fighter/back-up healer/combat assistance), Swordsage focusing on Shadowhand and Diamond Mind Maneuvers (melee damage-dealer), Scout (for trapfinding and Skirmish), Water type Shugenja (for healing and social skills), and a Psion (focusing on utility Powers and blasting).

[Irreverent Fool]

I disagree with balanced parties. I occasionally encourage my players to make their players individually, without input from the rest of the group. I don't really think 'archetypes' work in 3.5. Many classes are capable of filling multiple roles. 'Healer' is an incredibly unnecessary archetype in 3.5 (and I commend 4e for sort-of doing away with it).

That having been said,

Dread Necromancer
Artificer
Warblade
Duskblade

obnoxious
sig

[Thrawn183]

Divine Caster: Adept
Skill Monkey: Ninja
Beat Stick: Samurai
"Arcane" Caster: Truenamer

[Noble Savant]

Hrm... Lets see about this.


Crusader/Knight: A nice solid tank. Good at soaking damage and protecting the squishies.
Warmage: No love for the poor super-blaster? The Warmage will serve as your heavy artillery, and the ability to wear armor will also come in handy.
Archivist: Your utility caster. Get every Domain spell and got to town. Enemies will be hard pressed to get the drop on you if you prepare properly.
Factotum: Generic skill monkey, mixed in with the true awesome that is the Factotum.
Psion(Telepath): The party "face". Who needs diplomacy when you can just break their minds?

[Eloel]

Party Name:
Order of Mind

Members:
The Melee - Psychic Warrior
The Ranged - Soulbow
The Trickster - Psychic Rogue
The Utility - Divine Mind
The Face - Shaper

These all have alternatives...
As in;

Party Name:
Order of Mind II

Members:
The Melee - Soulknife
The Ranged - Kineticist
The Trickster - Lurk
The Utility - Ardent
The Face - Wilder


I'm getting some ideas :) (Last 2 include PHB classes, but can't stop myself from typing them...)

Party Name;
The Big 5

Members:
The Melee - Druid
The Ranged - Cleric
The Trickster - Artificer
The Utility - Archivist
The God-Damn Batman - Wizard


Party Name;
Oh-So-Useless

Members;
The Melee - Warrior
The Trickster - Expert
The Utility - Adept
The Face - Aristocrat
The Chosen One - Commoner

[Vortling]

Or cleric, so they can all be Kung Fu Action Jesus!

This idea is made of awesome.