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Berserk Monk
2009-07-16, 10:57 PM
So, I'm just wondering how to make recurring NPCs for a campaign. I think it be kind of fun, create a personal villain for the PCs to be motivated to finally kill. The only problem is that in D&D, unless you have a party filled with pacifists, they're just gonna kill every opponent in combat, and just saying that the head bad guy "mysteriously" ran away is kind of lame.

Any advise.

Shosuro Ishii
2009-07-16, 11:01 PM
I've used a self-aware villianess on several occasions. She was basically Xykon-esque, in that she enjoyed her role as a villian, and merely crushing the PCs in one fell swoop lacks the enjoyment factor of toying with them.

She was however, undead, so the whole, as long as I'm careful, I can let them 'kill' me and move on, was always a card I could play.

I think I let them kill her a few times before they actually finished her off for good.

Blue Warlock
2009-07-16, 11:01 PM
Exemplars of Evil had a lot of really good info on this kind of stuff, alternate class features for monk that would let them go invisible to escape, and stuff for classes with evasion to play dead instead. Of course if any of your enemies is a spellcaster, you already have all the bases covered with teleport spells (contigent or otherwise), flight, featherfalling from a great height, etc.

Not much to help you out if your villain was a fighter or barbarian though.

FoE
2009-07-16, 11:18 PM
Is no one else going to say it? Alright then.

Raise Dead.

Also ....

Lich.

AslanCross
2009-07-16, 11:20 PM
Recurring villains should be genre savvy, or at least prepared to escape and/or come back to life.

Flickerdart
2009-07-16, 11:22 PM
Astral Projections. Eventually, the PCs follow the silver cord to the personal demiplane of the villain and the final showdown begins.

GoatToucher
2009-07-16, 11:27 PM
I had a buddy whose recurring villains were super kewl Gary Stu's.

They sucked. They were invincible and untouchable. They were satisfying to him, but not to the PCs.

If you have a recurring villain, you have to throw the PCs a bone. If you don't let them kill the villain himself, you have to give them victories wherein they kill his lieutenant/destroy his lair/foil his plans. If you're so invested in the NPC that you can't bear to see him lose, don't put him in front of the PCs.

holywhippet
2009-07-16, 11:31 PM
There was one character my DM told me about that he'd built for a previous campaign. This character literally made the campaign take a hard right turn as the players pretty much vowed to kill her instead of continuing on with the rest of the campaign.

She was a ghost sorceress, a very evil one. She wasn't the sort to provoke direct conflict with the party, she preferred more subversive methods. The party had worked with a paladin to thwart one of her plans. So she went back to the paladin's home town and possessed his wife. She then forced him into a situation where he had to kill her - and just as he was striking the killing blow she left the body leaving the wife to see her husband kill her.

The party kept trying to find things that they could use to kill her. Unfortunately she'd arranged for them to obtain a magical ring which had unlimited castings of the augury spell. The problem was, this was 3.0 where identify only specifies the lowest level magic of an item. The ring also had an enchantment which would prevent any kind of counter-scrying magic to fail (I forget the exact name). As such, she always knew where they were going and what they were planning so she could thwart them or teleport in and grab the McGuffin they were seeking.

Since she was a ghost she could possess party members (none of them aqcuired a permanent protection from evil item). So every so often the DM would hand out notes saying who was possessed -and every so often none of the notes said they were possessed, but it kicked the paranoia off.

It ended up that the players got an item that could imprison someone forever - they were going to wait until she possessed a player then use it on them. It failed, instead the only two survivors battled convinced that the other was possessed (neither was) and as soon as there was only one left she possessed them - TPK.

Pika...
2009-07-16, 11:33 PM
So, I'm just wondering how to make recurring NPCs for a campaign. I think it be kind of fun, create a personal villain for the PCs to be motivated to finally kill. The only problem is that in D&D, unless you have a party filled with pacifists, they're just gonna kill every opponent in combat, and just saying that the head bad guy "mysteriously" ran away is kind of lame.

Any advise.

Hmm...

You just gave me an idea I like. In my homebrewed setting Death is an over-god who is responsible for "cutting the thread" of everything from a cockroach to the gods themselves. Anyway, what if for whatever reason (an ancient deal of some kind? a curse by Death himself?) this individual (aka the BBEG) was never taken by Death, and eventually the BBEG's wounds just heal/reforms regardless of how many pieces he/she is cut into.

Viable?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-07-16, 11:35 PM
Casters can Teleport whenever things get bad. Outsiders are also good for this, especially ones like Succubi where the majority of the encounter is before the actual battle. Monks are actually pretty good recurring villians, since they can run better than anyone else and are only likely to die through HP damage. The fact that you an make them several levels higher without risking a TPK is just a plus.

Pika...
2009-07-16, 11:35 PM
There was one character my DM told me about that he'd built for a previous campaign. This character literally made the campaign take a hard right turn as the players pretty much vowed to kill her instead of continuing on with the rest of the campaign.

She was a ghost sorceress, a very evil one. She wasn't the sort to provoke direct conflict with the party, she preferred more subversive methods. The party had worked with a paladin to thwart one of her plans. So she went back to the paladin's home town and possessed his wife. She then forced him into a situation where he had to kill her - and just as he was striking the killing blow she left the body leaving the wife to see her husband kill her.

The party kept trying to find things that they could use to kill her. Unfortunately she'd arranged for them to obtain a magical ring which had unlimited castings of the augury spell. The problem was, this was 3.0 where identify only specifies the lowest level magic of an item. The ring also had an enchantment which would prevent any kind of counter-scrying magic to fail (I forget the exact name). As such, she always knew where they were going and what they were planning so she could thwart them or teleport in and grab the McGuffin they were seeking.

Since she was a ghost she could possess party members (none of them aqcuired a permanent protection from evil item). So every so often the DM would hand out notes saying who was possessed -and every so often none of the notes said they were possessed, but it kicked the paranoia off.

It ended up that the players got an item that could imprison someone forever - they were going to wait until she possessed a player then use it on them. It failed, instead the only two survivors battled convinced that the other was possessed (neither was) and as soon as there was only one left she possessed them - TPK.


Your DM is awesome.
I wish I could do something like this.

Eldariel
2009-07-16, 11:44 PM
The way I like to do them is to stat the villain out but defensively and with multiple contingencies to GTFO. If the party manages to kill him, more power to them, I'm not stopping them but usually the villain is capable of surviving a direct confrontation when built in this manner.


This is especially easy for caster type opponents due to teleportation, flight, contingencies, Images and so on (eventually Astral Projections et al.). Also obviously the opposition having access to Raise Death/Clone-type effects works out fine.

If the opponent is a Rogue-kinda guy, items and just...y'know, not being there (and in general, skills compounded by magical trinkets) along with the vast nets of assistants and support he's built are convenient reasons for the recurringness (see Raise Dead above? Yeah).

Warrior-types, Black Knights and such, are the hardest to pull off due to...well, magic being better, but with magic items and careful building, it's still doable. Usually these involve homebrew too.

Then of course, there are monster types that tend to keep coming back, mostly undead: Liches, Vampires, Ghosts, etc. cannot be permanently killed through the basic means. But not all the recurring BBEGs need to be undead - living opponents (or indeed, any opponents with intellect) work out just fine as written out above.


But ya, I always have builds for the characters I use and try to avoid handwaving anything 'cause that means it's more than an illusion of being able to affect things for the PCs; if they're really lucky/smart (generally a combination there-of), the BBEG may indeed be dead quite soon into the campaign (that needn't end their adventuring or even accomplish their goal, but it will make life a lot easier and make them major heroes).

Another thing is, my BBEGs usually avoid direct confrontations with the party thus making it a chore just to get to them. I vastly prefer background movers to direct actors.

Berserk Monk
2009-07-16, 11:48 PM
Is no one else going to say it? Alright then.

Raise Dead.

Also ....

Lich.

Yeah, liches. Don't know why I never thought of it. Also, outsides shift back to their home plane when killed on the material plane, right?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-07-16, 11:56 PM
Keep in mind, you may do all of this, follow all of our advice, and still fail to have him...recurr. Sometimes the players will just pour resources into keeping him from escaping, or just go beyond what defenses you've thought even remotely needed (http://agc.deskslave.org/comic_viewer.html?goNumber=370). In those cases, it's better to let the villian die than it is to Deus Ex Machina him out of it, IMHO.

Haven
2009-07-17, 12:01 AM
The simplest thing to do this is to think comic books, not D&D. So some possibilites:

-the fight gets interrupted
-the PCs are ordered to bring them in alive for whatever reason
-the bad guy has lackeys or superiors willing and able to resurrect them
-the bad guy is able to outthink them and leaves them for dead and they escape by the skin of their teeth or due to an ability the villain was unaware of
-the bad guy is an important local figure and is good at covering up their dirty work, or someone else for whom simple outright killing is not an appealing option/leads to more negative consequences than the PCs are willing to deal with

All that jazz.

AslanCross
2009-07-17, 12:11 AM
Yeah, liches. Don't know why I never thought of it. Also, outsides shift back to their home plane when killed on the material plane, right?

Depends. Devils take 100 years to reform, if I'm not mistaken. Demons do so instantly, or at least, no time lapse is mentioned. See the Fiendish Codices.

Teln
2009-07-17, 12:15 AM
Keep in mind that even if the BBEG is a lich and they kill him and smash his phylactery, it's not the end of the line. All he needs to do is leave a toe with a cleric that can cast resurrection, and come up with a way to inform said cleric of his untimely demise.

Pika...
2009-07-17, 12:34 AM
Keep in mind that even if the BBEG is a lich and they kill him and smash his phylactery, it's not the end of the line. All he needs to do is leave a toe with a cleric that can cast resurrection, and come up with a way to inform said cleric of his untimely demise.

If you're going this route, you'd might as well make the BBEG a smart-alike kobold, and name him something like "the oracle".

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-07-17, 01:57 AM
So, I'm just wondering how to make recurring NPCs for a campaign. I think it be kind of fun, create a personal villain for the PCs to be motivated to finally kill. The only problem is that in D&D, unless you have a party filled with pacifists, they're just gonna kill every opponent in combat, and just saying that the head bad guy "mysteriously" ran away is kind of lame.

Any advise.

"Mysteriously" ran away? There are scores of way for the villain to get away in D&D. And get away he must if he is to recur because the party will kill him if they get a chance.

In addition to escape, the recurring villain also needs to be tough (so he should have relatively high AC and hp), resistant to save or die spells but only be lethal against the party. Normally this is hard because a D&D villain that is high enough CR to confront and survive the party is often so also capable of delivering TPK.

One way to fix this problem is to multiclass the villain and add templates which make the villain tough but only partially effective.

A 7th level wizard with dimension door is too easy for a 7th or higher level party. He is a proper challenge to a party of 5th-6th level but he is too vulnerable. And he has too many ways to TPK a party of 4th level or lower even if you choose suboptimal spells. To fix him for a 5th-6th level party make him tougher but not more effective. For ex, a wiz 2/clr 2/mystic theurge5 or a ftr 1/wiz 6/eldritch night 2 are tougher than a wiz 7 but are not that much more effective against the party.

A fighter or barbarian is not typically a good recurring villain because he has a hard time escaping, has to melee and to survive the fight has to be 4-6 levels highs; and at that level he can be lethal to 1 or 2 party members. First to escape, you can add a magic item or you could add something like the shadow template. It's +3 LA but basically the two main abilities the fighter gets from the template are total concealment in shadows and the plane shift (self only) ability, or in other words, the ability to escape. Say again the party is level 6. A fighter of 8th-10th level is too easy. A fighter of 11th or 12th level is too tough. But a shadow ftr 6/clr 4, although of ECL 13, are more survivable but not much more lethal than a ftr 9-10.

Another way to fix the problem of the recurring villain is to have lots of minion, lots and lots of minions. An aristocrat can be the recurring villain even if he is not personally powerful enough to take on the party. With enough magic items to enable to escape and not to be killed easily, he can let others fight for him. And why to others fight for him? Make up a reason: he's charismatic, he's the leader of a movement, etc.

Yet another way to have a recurring villain is to have an untouchable villain. The villain can personally be weak with just enough magic, spells or abilities to survive or escape if caught in a straight up fight. But this villain keeps away from straight up fights. He acts behind the scenes against the party but yet the party can't prove it or can't do anything against him. This works best in a campaign with a lot of city or court settings. Think Cardinal Richelieu.

So recurring villains are meta-game tough and meta-game ineffective. That is, every time they recur you must make sure they have what is needed to survive and escape and to pose a strong but not decidedly lethal danger to face the party in question.

And recurring villains are also meta-game inventive. That is, they will keep coming back with new tactics to frustrate the party. So the wizard may first fight the party alone. Then, he may fight the party with an undead horde. Then he might dominate a local leader to turn against the partyparty.

Limos
2009-07-17, 02:08 AM
Well you can always go the easy route and have the villain be a Lich. Then they can kill him several times before finding his phylactery.

You can also just have the villain have prepared a method of escape and give him lots of distracting minions to keep the PC's busy while he escapes.

Xenogears
2009-07-17, 02:16 AM
Be a jerk. Possession is key.

Have them defeat the enemy. turns out he was just a member of a cult being granted exceptional powers by the leader. Track down leader. Kill him. Turns out he was possessed by a demon. Track down Demon. Kill him. Turns out that the cult leaders weapon was ALSO possessed by another demon who was the real ring leader. You can keep this going forever. Not quite a reoccuring villain more like a "behind the curtain there are....... more curtains!"

Irreverent Fool
2009-07-17, 02:17 AM
The simulacrum spell is good for this, especially if the simulacrum manages to escape a couple times. The BBEG doesn't even need to be a wizard. He can have one in his employ or have a pile of scrolls or a staff or (best of all) a magic trap that casts the spell.

Players: "Man, this guy sure is tough and he keeps getting away. We're levelling up though so I think we'll get him next time!"

Next time they meet, the players have finally caught up to the level of their nemesis. They toss off some one-liners and get excited as they deal the finishing blow... only to have their long-time enemy melt into a puddle of water. A contingent magic mouth or some other method of communicating delivers the REAL BBEG's message as he is halfway 'round the world putting his Evil Plan(tm) into motion: "I'm glad to see that you've finally managed to dispatch one of my puppets. Perhaps you aren't the unworthy insects I thought you were." Blah blah blah. Characters familiar with the spell should be adequately horrified when they realized that what they thought was the climactic battle was only the beginning and that the real BBEG has TWICE as many class levels as the snowman they just killed.

Or a lich. Liches are good. My problem with liches is the same as my problem with trolls. Every character seems to know all the details about them.

obnoxious
sig

Doc Roc
2009-07-17, 02:20 AM
I have another, completely different, suggestion.

Cranium Rats. Go on, look it up. I'll wait.
Yep. Kill some of them. See how well that works out for you when the swarm is ten thousand strong.
I'll be over here, far away. In Acheron. Because it's safer there.

Haven
2009-07-17, 02:21 AM
I have another, completely different, suggestion.

Cranium Rats. Go on, look it up. I'll wait.
Yep. Kill some of them. See how well that works out for you when the swarm is ten thousand strong.
I'll be over here, far away. In Acheron. Because it's safer there.

Were those ever converted to 3rd?

Doc Roc
2009-07-17, 02:29 AM
Do they need stats when there's that many of them? But yes, I believe they were converted, though I can't think of where.

Eldariel
2009-07-17, 02:30 AM
They're at least featured in Expedition to Demonweb Pits, so there if nowhere else (it's an adventure).

Irreverent Fool
2009-07-17, 02:54 AM
Were those ever converted to 3rd?

They're in the Fiend Folio under Swarms.

Thanks Monster Index (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/monsters&tablefilter=rat&tablesort=4)!

Also, Moonrats from the MMII:

Under the influence of lunar light...Their leaders remember things done and learned nights or even months befor. When the moon's light is at its peak, moonrats are capable of making and acting on long-range plans that may require dozens of full-moon nights to complete. These schemes are often so subtle and involved that observers do not connect incidents relating to a long-range moonrat plan until it is too late to stop it.

Moonrats are awesome because nobody would expect a bunch of super-intelligent rats. On the other hand, it's hard to be a 'recurring villain' if nobody notices. Characters who do manage to figure it out will have trouble convincing NPCs that a bunch of evil rats who gain +8 intelligence on the full moon are plotting to start a war with the next kingdom.

obnoxious
sig

Haven
2009-07-17, 03:20 AM
Moonrats are awesome because nobody would expect a bunch of super-intelligent rats. On the other hand, it's hard to be a 'recurring villain' if nobody notices. Characters who do manage to figure it out will have trouble convincing NPCs that a bunch of evil rats who gain +8 intelligence on the full moon are plotting to start a war with the next kingdom.

Which would lead to the best case of It Was Here I Swear (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItWasHereISwear) ever: "The rats are superintelligent and evil!"

"...these just look like normal rats."

"Oh, well...not right now, obviously."

"What?"

Ravens_cry
2009-07-17, 04:11 AM
Which would lead to the best case of It Was Here I Swear (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItWasHereISwear) ever: "The rats are superintelligent and evil!"

"...these just look like normal rats."

"Oh, well...not right now, obviously."

"What?"
And behind it all, a rat king. No, not a king of rats. I mean, a Rat King. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_king_(folklore)) Properly described and played, if a moon rat is a methodical Xantos Gambiter, imagine what a moon rat rat king could do.

Irreverent Fool
2009-07-17, 04:13 AM
And behind it all, a rat king. No, not a king of rats. I mean, a Rat King. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_king_(folklore)) Properly described and played, if a moon rat is a methodical Xantos Gambiter, imagine what a moon rat rat king could do.

I think Gambler is the word you're looking for.
And yes I know what a Xanatos Gambit is.
obnoxious
sig

TheCountAlucard
2009-07-17, 05:12 AM
All he needs to do is leave a toe with a cleric that can cast resurrection, and come up with a way to inform said cleric of his untimely demise.
So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be resurrected, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death.

Otherwise, a good plan.

(Perhaps a spell that removes and teleports said toe to the cleric at the time of your demise?)

Fishy
2009-07-17, 05:19 AM
Gamblers are people who make gambits? Hunh. I learned something today.

The Eberron Campaign Setting, among its many virtues, has detailed rules that allow fiends, quori, and the occasional celestial to possess an instant disposable BBEG and pop back later in a new host body.

Also, Horizon Walker. For your epic evil ranger needs?

Ravens_cry
2009-07-17, 05:23 AM
I think Gambler is the word you're looking for.
And yes I know what a Xanatos Gambit is.
obnoxious
sig
I like my word better:smalltongue: Besides, gambler sounds like they aren't in control.

Cyclocone
2009-07-17, 05:43 AM
I think Gambler is the word you're looking for.
And yes I know what a Xanatos Gambit is.
obnoxious
sig

Actually, it's gambiteer IIRC.

BlueWizard
2009-07-17, 05:47 AM
Your villain needs an escape plan. If he fails, well screw him, and back to the drawing board.

I had players get lucky and kill my world leader of all things, when I gave them a disintegrate ray... the villain had to roll a 1 to fail. I had to start a new adventure for the PCs right then and there.

Kaiyanwang
2009-07-17, 06:43 AM
Another way is a secured soul monster from Heroes of Horror. (don't know if I translated well).

The recurring villain in my curent campaing is an akutenshi became this evil undead by a curse. The curse keeps res him unless is killed in a certain way.

EDIT: soul locked creature. Take a look, page 47.

hewhosaysfish
2009-07-17, 07:16 AM
The simulacrum spell is good for this, especially if the simulacrum manages to escape a couple times. The BBEG doesn't even need to be a wizard. He can have one in his employ or have a pile of scrolls or a staff or (best of all) a magic trap that casts the spell.

One problem with simulacrum is that the snowman has to have a bit of hair or toenail or something from the BBEG inside it. If/When the BBEG's enemies (i.e. the party) destroy the simulacrum, they can get their hands on that.

Thrawn183
2009-07-17, 07:27 AM
In a campaign that was fairly low level (5-7) I had a DM that would have them teleport or dimension door out once we'd done their normal full hp worth of damage to them. It ended up being the same amount of resources consumed and difficulty. It also avoided the situation where the enemy has to flee at half HP because if he stuck around for another round he might end up dead.

Yuki Akuma
2009-07-17, 08:05 AM
One problem with simulacrum is that the snowman has to have a bit of hair or toenail or something from the BBEG inside it. If/When the BBEG's enemies (i.e. the party) destroy the simulacrum, they can get their hands on that.

Well, sure.

But if he's an "appropriate encounter", by the time they can scry (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/scrying.htm) on him, the true BBEG will be at least level 18.

Even if he doesn't have anti-scrying at all, why would he care if a group of level 9 characters know what he's doing?

Zanatos777
2009-07-17, 08:41 AM
One problem with simulacrum is that the snowman has to have a bit of hair or toenail or something from the BBEG inside it. If/When the BBEG's enemies (i.e. the party) destroy the simulacrum, they can get their hands on that.

Amusingly Eschew Materials counters this problem.

valadil
2009-07-17, 09:11 AM
Your recurring villain doesn't have to be a villain throughout the whole game. My best villains have been friendly NPCs who turned on the party. It makes the whole thing a lot more personal to the PCs.

Kol Korran
2009-07-17, 10:51 AM
i haven't read the entire thread, so there might be a few things that i may be repeating. however, here are a few things that might help you with a recurring villain:

1) read the giant's guide to making villains. it is quite good. i've read it a long time ago, and i am using some of it's advice, so i may be repeating things.

2) one kind of villain i used and that has worked splendidly: this guy/ gal actually appears to be helping the characters out of adventures- advising them, doing research for them, supplying them with minor items, maybe buying things at a discount and so on. s/he gains their trust (i suggest give him/her either a good magical item to cover their real intentions, or a good bluff modifier), and learsn from them on their goals, missions, suspicions, way they fight and so on. he might even soem advice about these missions, that might even help to a degree.
but what happens on the adventures? the PC find the villain's advice and equipment helping. however, they find themselves facing bettter and better prepared enemies. their brilliant strategic plans work, but only to a point, they face squads of specially trained merceneris who seem to know their tactics and more. and lets not forget, they meet the villain him/herself, covered and appearing totally different (i think rich mentioned using full face helmets instead of magical protection- i concur).
the villain itself doesn't rely on pure power, but on cunning and foreknowledge. he sets ambushes, traps, using the party's tactics againstthem and more. he is clever enough not to do something that would reveal his other identity though, until s/he fumbles at the end/ must uncover for some reason.
if you can, and it fits the villain's style, i suggest you make him/ her "divert fire" to another likely "ultimate villain", that the party pursue, only to find out at the end that it wasn't realy him/her, and maybe they have furthered the real villain's plan. i suggest the real villain use various ways to create/dupe/blackmail other people and creatures to appear as the masked version of it.
if you do this right, i assure you, the players are going to be seriously engaged, and utterly blown away finding out the truth. doing it correctly however is the trick. my advice- use the Liar's Best rule: always tell the truth, except at the crucial moment. build the villain's credibility and trust at your party's eyes.

2) as rich mentioned, find out what the villain's plan is, and then integrate him/ her at crucial points in it. also- don't make the villain someone who the party can beat (he should be over powering at first- mid campaign), but make them capable of hurting him, and making a dent (small or large) in his/ her plans. the party should have to work around the villain and it's powers, and at tmies to fight him/her, while trying to sabotage his/ her works. stalling battles, running away battles, diversion battles, drawing out battles and more can be the background for fighting the villain, and escaping.
also, it is fine if the party fails at their mission. (i suggest giving them some small victory though) this enhances players vulnerability and the realness of the world (is that a real word?) look at the fall of azure city- sure, it sucked, but it was also great, and made the villains so much more real, and the party so much more invested in beating down those who defeated them.

3) another villain idea that worked well for me is what i call "many as one"- this is basically some sort of a super mind, that can control lower kinds of creatures, basically putting himself in them, and using them. their powers and strengths, it's mind directing. the party may face one, two, 10, or a whole legion of controlled puppets, fighting the same guy/ gal in different forms, with different powers, and even defeating them, only to meet with them again. the challange here is complex: the party may need to find how to break the control if they wish to save some of the controlled (if they can be saved), they need to find the source, and how to battle it, (and the many, many cultists that worship it), and so on.
in one campaign i used this villain, though the party broke before it ended. it was in Eberron, and the villain was a nightmare creature from Dal Quor that didn't like being part of the dreaming dark, and found a new way into mortal minds. it escaped to the world, and hid, and used his influence to spread and grow stronger (it's more complicated than that, but you get the idea). every encounter with him, there were triats the character new, and hopefully learned to battle, but there was also something new. for example: at first it could only control humanoid bodiesof no great power, later it controlled more powerfull individuals, then stranger creatures such as abberations, a dragon, and so on. then multiple creatures, even swarm and mobs, then the dead and undead, the constructs, the different bodies also learned to work in unison, and the creature learned the characters tricks slowly.
as far as it went, it went splendidly- turned out to be a horror campaing (though strangely that wasn't my intention). best of all- the characters grew to suspect everyone around them. even each other if they haven't seen each other for a bit.

4) another idea for a recurring character that i never got to use- a ghost. a long time ghost that can't stop pursuing some goal, and keeps getting rejuvinated every time it gets destroyed (think LeChuck from Monkey's island). you might try it. i think it would be fun.

i've used other ideas, but i have to go. perhaps i'll add something later.
Kol.

Stormthorn
2009-07-17, 11:26 AM
So, I'm just wondering how to make recurring NPCs for a campaign. I think it be kind of fun, create a personal villain for the PCs to be motivated to finally kill. The only problem is that in D&D, unless you have a party filled with pacifists, they're just gonna kill every opponent in combat, and just saying that the head bad guy "mysteriously" ran away is kind of lame.

Any advise.

Im working on a campaingn that will have one who runs with Expiditious Retreat and Spider Climb.

I have also optomized him more than the average PC in our group since he doesnt plan on fighting to the death until later on.

He's a goblin Rogue/Transmuter/Fleshwarper with two flaws.
The next time he gets a feat (in two levels) he will take Starspawn (abberant feat) and be able to fly at will.

warrl
2009-07-17, 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The SRD
So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be resurrected, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death.

Since we're talking about a lich...

... would that be a body part from when the lich was destroyed, or a piece of the phylactery from when it was destroyed, or whichever of those occurred last - or a body part from the living person when he was turned into a lich?

Psychosis
2009-07-17, 04:21 PM
I didn't bother reading the whole thread so I dunno if an example of this is already present, but I had a fun case of this.

Several sessions into the campaign (it was near the beginning) I introduced Vardiel, a psychotic Death Knight champion to an evil lesser god of war. He was basically an unrestrained psycho who only wanted to kill things. He had no tact, a foul mouth, and an open willingness to kill his followers simply because they were nearby when he was in a bad mood. Also, he was nine levels higher than the PCs and they damn well feared him. He was by no means a central antagonist, and in truth just somebody they ran into on occasion. He was both my favorite villain ever created and the player's favorite to go up against. Over the course of the campaign they had eight encounters, with five leading to actual fighting (instead of just harassing him or running) and through it all he went through three mounts (standard horse, Nightmare, and Greater Barghest.)

Lord Loss
2009-07-17, 05:01 PM
I'm currently using a Goblin Pirate Lord, who, despite his piracy, is a genius trying to care for his species, albeit somewhat misunderstood. He is a genius, (Int 17), and his speech when they first met him:

You are here to kill me, I see. Yes, humans are quite prejudiced against my kind. I would explain, but you will not listen. And so I will kill you, but take no joy in it, and I will not grieve for you. I hunt down your kind, but not because I hate you. because you hate us. Now, enough talk.

Kallisti
2009-07-17, 05:23 PM
Most villains will make the PC's go through layer after layer of minoins and pawns first. A villain the PC's only vaguely know about until the final confrontation could be fun.

Or just lich. Lich works.

My favorite "Not Dead Yet" trick has got to be Greater Teleport with Craft Contingent Spell. Set the trigger condition to be 'an event that would cause the death of the recipient' if the villain lacks resurrection magic, or 'the death of the recipient' if he does have access. Basically, for the price of a scroll of Greater Teleport, he disappears vack to his lair if the PC's defeat him.

One bad guy I used once was the BBEG's right-hand man, a half-shadow dragon drow assasin. His ring let him plane shift at will. Now, the party was easily high enough level to use Plane Shift themsevles and follow him...assuming they could guess his planar destination accurately. He'd jump between hideouts on many different planes a couple times, and the PC's didn't know which world to search. It worked really well, and finally they found out he was doing this with his ring, and used Telekinesis to pull it off his finger...

Umael
2009-07-17, 06:59 PM
1) Setting
2) Circumstance
3) Shadows

1) Setting - Depending on the setting, you can have your villain right in front of the PCs for most of the campaign. In a campaign setting I created, the main city-state was very powerful and extremely Lawful Good. If you encountered a mind flayer on the streets, you could not assault said mind flayer - at least, not legally. Worship of a CE god is perfectly fine, but sacrificing intelligent beings is murder, hence illegal. You get the idea.

For a more "familiar" setting, look at Rokugan. The honor-based culture meant that you not only had to let the villain who killed your parents live, but to smile politely and keep your hand well away from your hilt at all times. To behave discourteously would bring dishonor, and worse, the Scorpion Clan would love to play with your lack of self-control to make you a patsy.

Of course, even with "traditional" D&D, you can always set things up so that the players, even the characters, are SURE that the king's daughter is wicked and evil and nasty and makes-choir-boy-paladin-think-impure-thoughts naughty, but she's Daddy's Little Girl and he loves her very much. Worse, the PCs are beholden to the king for some reason (likely because he is their leige), and other than the Princess Issue, he is a very good ruler. Toss in the fact that the next-in-line is an evil scheming bastard who is activately plotting regicide and revolution, and you can get the PCs wound up with frustration. Then, just as they have the evil princess by the throat, or even better, are standing over her body, you reveal that it was the "always-in-the-shadows" "just-wanted-Daddy's-approval" prince who was the REAL villain all along...

2) Circumstance - Keep giving the PCs abnormal combat encounters. The villain is way too tough for them to handle! What do they do? Well, the villain's AC and HP are too high, but that big bat he's flying looks like a nice target. Oh, no, he's fallen to his doom! That's no way he can survive that, right??

3) Shadows - Simulacrum. Twins. Look-a-likes. One mind, many bodies. Possession. People just claiming to be the villain. Add to that rumors that the villain can't be killed, that his body just reforms into a new body, one that looks different, that he skin-rides innocents and turns them into monsters. Even if the rumors aren't true, making the PCs guessing whether or not someone really is the villain will up the paranoia. Just make sure to give them some kind of sense of accomplishment, possibly by thwarting one scheme... maybe in time, maybe not. Play the "you stopped that monster, but I got what I came for" card, keeping the villain at least two steps ahead (for a while).

TSED
2009-07-17, 07:15 PM
Ranged attacks, curvey battle locations, allies (never flies solo!), AND...

Willingness to run away.


That last one? It's the key.

VestigeArcanist
2009-07-17, 08:18 PM
[QUOTE=VestigeArcanist;6522423]Two words. Child. Necromancer.

inspiration from the Tome of Necromancy found here... http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=632562

Here's the feat it creates...
Child Necromancer
An obsession with death and experimentation with necromancy early in your childhood perverted your body and blossoming magical talent. As a result, your body never aged past childhood, and you are an adult in a child’s body, magically powerful but physically weak.
Prerequisite: Caster level 1, must know at least one necromancy spell of each spell level you can cast.
Benefit: All Necromancy spells you cast are at +4 caster level, and you gain the effects of Weapon Finesse for all Necromancy touch attack spells you use (if you desire). You have –4 Strength, and appear to be a child despite your actual age category (this does not prevent penalties or bonuses from advancing in age categories, or stop the aging process). You are one size category smaller than normal for your race (do not further adjust ability modifiers). If you are a spontaneous caster, you may permanently exchange any spell known for any Necromancy spell you possess in written or scroll form. If you are a preparation caster, you may learn any Necromancy spell you possess in written or scroll form from any list, and you may not select Necromancy as a restricted school. These Necromancy spells may be from any list, can be exchanged at any time, and once gained are cast as spells of your spellcasting class. These spells remain as spells known even if you later lose this feat.
Special: This feat can only be taken at 1st level. If circumstances ever cause a character to no longer meet the prerequisites of this feat, they may choose any metamagic feat they qualify for to permanently replace this feat.

the point is that the recurring villain does not run from the players, the players run from the villian. it would be best if the PC's learn humility in defeat. There is nothing wrong from running away from a fight, though that may not be evident to a player. The PC is not god in this world, and he must be reminded of that.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-07-17, 08:34 PM
the point is that the recurring villain does not run from the players, the players run from the villian. it would be best if the PC's learn humility in defeat. There is nothing wrong from running away from a fight, though that may not be evident to a player. The PC is not god in this world, and he must be reminded of that.

Absolutely. Many people have suggested a lich. And OotS has a lich as a recurring uber-villain.

OotS also has the "Team Rocket blasting off again!" run-away recurring villains in the linear guild.

OotS also had the remote manipulator with minions recurring villain in Kubota.

OotS also had the untouchable and/or unkillable permanently recurring "villain" in the Oracle.

All those types have been mentioned in the thread.

Hmm...Miko was also a recurring "villain". She's kind of hard to pull off in play though. She's the higher level fighter that's not too much higher in level with multi-classing and/or spells and/or class abilities that make her annoying for the party but her advantages can be reduced in special circumstances recurring villain.

ondonaflash
2009-07-18, 12:25 AM
Remeber: A villain is the story, the Heroes are incidental. Think about it, by the time the heroes get involved, unless they were there at the start of darkness, the villain's plan should already be well in motion, he should already have contingencies laid out, flunkies supporting him, bodyguards surrounding him, and an army behind him.

At this point he has somebody killed, or something stolen, or something broken, and that is when the Heroes realize something is going on, and come to investigate. By this point in his plan he should have become aware that someone could find him, and laid a false trail. Maybe he wants to mock the heroes but that doesn't mean he has to fight them, and if he does fight them, maybe he has a quick magical exit: That necklace around his neck? If he breaks it it wall cause him to teleport, or drop him in another plan, or turn him into a swarm of insects. Those curtains around his room? Everyone of them leads to a seperate plane, where an army of minions waits to charge in. Those tattoos he has? Can be peeled off and thrown in the way of on-coming attackers to make an impenetrable wall of thorns. You're having trouble with this? For serious? And last, but not least, no matter how strong the party's kill-blast is, it should only go so far as to severely wound/permanently disfigure the villain, so he can swear vengeance and flee in the arms of his loyal and beloved lieutenant.