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View Full Version : What do you think of the Ultimate Magnus?



VestigeArcanist
2009-07-17, 06:59 PM
The title says it all. is it crippled? or just pointless? or totally overpowered?

Eldariel
2009-07-17, 07:05 PM
It's pretty fair given you go for a minimal main class lost-approach. Augmented Casting and Spell Power along with bunch of extra spontaneous spells are great things to get for a caster, and can make up for the lost caster levels to a degree.

So yeah, provided you prioritize one side, it's pretty strong. Not overpowered, but strong. If you fall into the 3/3 split the class pushes you towards, you'll have power level issues.

nightwyrm
2009-07-17, 10:05 PM
If you know to use the practiced spellcaster "trick", it's decent. If you don't, it's bad.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-07-18, 12:06 AM
An Illumian with the Krau sigil and Practiced Spellcaster for their spontaneous class, who goes Spontaneous 1/ Prepared 4/ UM 10 can add 10/10 UM to their prepared class, and 7/10 to their spontaneous class. At level 15 you'll get 14th level prepared spellcasting and 8th level spontaneous spellcasting, so you can spend 4th level spontaneous spell slots to Quicken your prepared class' spells. It's not as powerful a combination as something like Wizard X/ Ur-Priest 2/ Mystic Theurge 8+, but it definitely makes a viable character even in the early levels.

The 'best' class combination is Beguiler/Wizard, since both are Int-based, Beguiler has decent weapon proficiencies and great class skills, and you can even get Able Learner. That can be both a primary arcanist and the party's skill/trapmonkey with a decent Int score. There's also the feat Versatile Spellcaster in Races of the Dragon which allows you to spend two spontaneous spell slots to cast any spell you know of one level higher, which would include your entire prepared class spells known list. With two flaws you can even go Beguiler 1/ Wizard 1/ Master Specialist 3/ UM, though you'd have to skip Able Learner.

Eldariel
2009-07-18, 01:03 PM
The 'best' class combination is Beguiler/Wizard, since both are Int-based, Beguiler has decent weapon proficiencies and great class skills, and you can even get Able Learner.

Purely casting-wise, the combo is severely lacking compared to half-fast progression UM (either Bard 1/Wizard X/Sublime Chord 1/UM 10 or Wizard X/Nar Demonbinder 1/UM X or hell, Wizard X/Beholder Mage X/UM 10); even with the stat synergy, the much lower amount of spell levels more than compensates for the inability to use spontaneous side for offensive SoDs.

nightwyrm
2009-07-18, 04:30 PM
Purely casting-wise, the combo is severely lacking compared to half-fast progression UM (either Bard 1/Wizard X/Sublime Chord 1/UM 10 or Wizard X/Nar Demonbinder 1/UM X or hell, Wizard X/Beholder Mage X/UM 10); even with the stat synergy, the much lower amount of spell levels more than compensates for the inability to use spontaneous side for offensive SoDs.

I don't think it's a huge deal. You mostly use the spontaneous side to power metamagic for the prepared side anyways.

Eldariel
2009-07-19, 05:01 AM
I don't think it's a huge deal. You mostly use the spontaneous side to power metamagic for the prepared side anyways.

Indeed, and higher level slots power more powerful metamagic. Persistent is 6, Twin is 4, Quicken is 4, for example; to ensure and maintain their usability, you need a large number of higher level slots on the spontaneous side.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-07-19, 06:05 AM
The Beguiler/Wizard entry gets to see a few UM levels during actual play. A Wizard/Bard/Sublime Chord entry would probably be the most ideal, but it's well outside the level range that most characters are played at. Beholder Mage is cheese that PCs should never even get to touch, and a max level Nar Demonbinder gets a whopping 4/4/3/2/1 spells/day of 4th-8th level. Augmented Casting has a spell level limit that doesn't go past 5th, and a daily use limit that doesn't go past eight. Assuming you go Wizard 7/ Nar Demonbinder 1/ UM 10 you're Persisting 5th level spells at ECL 18, which should be considered a joke. I'd rather go Beguiler/Wizard/UM and add Split Ray to my 2nd-3rd level spells at ECL 10-11, than make such an investment trying to Persist 5th level spells ten levels after the Incantatrix did it.

Beguiler/Wizard adds low-level utility with Versatile Spellcaster considering you can pick any Wizard spell you know, even the ones you didn't write down in your book. As long as you have at least two 0-level Beguiler slots available you have spells like Feather Fall, Identify, Alarm, Protection from Evil, and Comprehend Languages at your fingertips without preparing any of them. As long as you have two 1st level Beguiler slots available you have immediate access to See Invisibility, Rope Trick, Dark Way, and Alter Self without preparing any of them. You get to learn spells for free with a little thought, just find someone who charges the standard spell level x 50 gp to copy their spells, spend a day learning the spell, but pretend you didn't understand it and don't write it down in your spellbook. Don't forget Beguiler gets Rogue skills like Bluff, and you could even Secret Page it into your book at a later time. Spells + versatility + amazing skills in the early levels > more higher level spells in the later levels, unless you actually get to start play in the higher levels.