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xPANCAKEx
2009-07-18, 06:15 AM
pretty simple question

never played druids much - which books should i look into for PrCs and equipment and spells and goodbits

and which PrCs should i avoid like the plague

ex cathedra
2009-07-18, 06:25 AM
To look for:
Planar Shepard, in Faiths of Eberron (I think).

To avoid like the plague:
Planar Shepard, in Faiths of Eberron (I think).
Only play it if you hate humanity and don't want to be friends with your DM. Nothing good can come of a planar shepard.

xPANCAKEx
2009-07-18, 06:26 AM
haha, yes - i had heard rumblings that it mad be a *tad* overpowered

Saph
2009-07-18, 06:28 AM
Druids are one of the only classes that don't really benefit from PrCing. Too many of their abilities are dependent on druid class features.

You can easily find a class that advances druid spellcasting, but you lose out on animal companion and Wild Shape advancement. So usually, you're better off sticking with Druid.

- Saph

ex cathedra
2009-07-18, 06:31 AM
A *tad*, yes. It's a druid, with all of the druid class features, with more class features. It's very foundation is too powerful, and then you get into the exploitation allowed in your plane selection.

Anyways, for spells and the like Core + SpC should fill most of your needs. A low/mid level strategy is to wildshape into a Fleshraker (evil, evil raptor-esque dinosaur. 3 attacks, each poisoned, with rake/rend and improved grab, if my memory serves; MM3) while buffed with Venomfire (I recall it being in some splatbook. Essentially, +xd6 damage on natural attacks with poison, where x is your caster level. Uncapped.) Oh, right, and it has pounce.

hewhosaysfish
2009-07-18, 06:34 AM
Master of Many Forms (possibly in CAdv?) doesn't advance spellcasting at all (a cardinal sin in many people's eyes) but lets you Wild Shape into pretty much whatever the heck you like, umpteen times per day.

xPANCAKEx
2009-07-18, 06:34 AM
Anyways, for spells and the like Core + SpC should fill most of your needs. A low/mid level strategy is to wildshape into a Fleshraker (evil, evil raptor-esque dinosaur. 3 attacks, each poisoned, with rake/rend and improved grab, if my memory serves; MM3) while buffed with Venomfire (I recall it being in some splatbook. Essentially, +xd6 damage on natural attacks with poison, where x is your caster level. Uncapped.) Oh, right, and it has pounce.

i just threw up in my mouth

ex cathedra
2009-07-18, 06:42 AM
At that point, you and your companion have the combat power of, roughly, a full fighter each, with yourself doing bonus damage equivalent of that of a rogue of twice your level, with that other thing...
you know...
while being a full caster.

Darwin
2009-07-18, 06:46 AM
Extend Spell + Creeping Cold from SpC is brutal at early levels.

ex cathedra
2009-07-18, 06:52 AM
I double checked my sources; Fleshrakers (CR 2, by the way.) are indeed in MM3, while Venomfire is in Serpent Kingdoms (Faerun specific; I also should have mentioned it's a third level spell (level 5! I wonder if there might be other cool class features druids get around there) with a duration of hours/level.).

Eloel
2009-07-18, 06:53 AM
There's less cheesy PrCs. Nature's Warrior & Primeval are 2 of those

riddles
2009-07-18, 07:38 AM
war shaper is fun for wild shape, but no spellcasting progression

Haven
2009-07-18, 07:51 AM
There's always arcane hierophant.

AstralFire
2009-07-18, 07:54 AM
Planar Shepherd is really cool and if you optimize like my girlfriend does (I'll pick up a feat here or there if I'm on a class that really, really sucks), it's fine to play. Course, there's not much that's unbalanced if you rarely ever think about using any of your supernatural or spellcasting abilities beyond "this seems cool".

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-07-18, 07:56 AM
If you can use Druid out of the PHB then you should just stay single-classed. There are some variants that end up being much weaker than the core version (i.e. shapeshift) which should be avoided at all costs, though many DMs will force that on a character just to diminish its power. Your animal companion will be equal to most melee classes outside ToB, and you don't want to lose any levels of its progression. Your spellcasting is just as strong as that of any Tier 1 class, and you don't want to lose any levels of its progression. Your shapeshifting makes you a powerful and versatile melee combatant and you don't want to lose any levels of its progression. The only prestige classes that advance all these things are Planar Shepherd, which is just unnecessary, and Arcane Heirophant in Races of the Wild which requires multiclassing to qualify for. If you're just now trying the Druid class, just stay single-classed and you'll do just fine.

Your feats should definitely include Natural Bond in Complete Adventurer at level 3, and Natural Spell at level 6. Your feat(s) at 1st level depend on whether or not you're Human. Personally I'd go with a (Whisper) Gnome (RoS) or a Water Halfling (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater) and take Companion Spellbond (PH2) at level 1. Most Human Druids will take Spell Focus: Conjuration and Augment Summoning, or Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple at level 1. Feats like Power Attack and Combat Reflexes are also useful. After level 6 your feats don't really matter, but good choices would include anything I've already mentioned as well as Multiattack and Quicken Spell. If you have Augment Summoning then consider taking Imbued Summoning in PH2.

Start with a wolf as your animal companion. At level 4 you should dismiss it and meditate for a Fleshraker dinosaur from MM3, you take a -3 to your effective Druid level for its extra HD but Natural Bond makes up for that. If you can't get a Fleshraker, then get a Dire Eagle from Races of Stone, which is also useful for a flying mount. As it gains additional hit dice it will get more skill points and feats, give it enough cross-class ranks in Spellcraft to take Mage Slayer (CA), and Leap Attack (CV) is another good choice for the Fleshraker. One extremely cheesy trick is to have your animal companion take Vow of Poverty in BoED, which can be accomplished with the Exalted Companion feat to make it a Celestial creature.

In the early levels get a wooden tower shield and always use it for cover, using your companion to do most of your fighting. Buff it with Enrage Animal and use spells like Entangle and (Lesser Rod of) Extended Creeping Cold. Summon Nature's Ally is useful for making targets for opponents to waste their attacks on, and later on you can summon Unicorns which are miniature healbots and sometimes their Magic Circle effect is useful. Once you hit 5th level you can take the form of a Fleshraker and be a capable melee combatant, at level 8 you can use the form of a Dire Lion. It only takes a Knowledge: Nature check with a DC of 10 + the animal's HD to show that your character is familiar with a given animal, and you can even take ten on the check, so there's no need to keep track of every single critter you encounter. Use Summon Nature's Ally to get Lions and then cast Animal Growth on them and your companion as they charge in to attack. Extended Creeping Cold stays useful forever, Call Lightning is decent, and Sleet Storm and Ice Storm are great for multiple opponents. The spell Call Avalanche in Frostburn is extremely useful for splitting up an encounter or even sinking ships or crushing buildings (500 pounds of snow per 5-ft. square should be sufficient). Longstrider and Greater Magic Fang (+1 all) are good to buff with each day with Companion Spellbond, especially Extended. Barkskin is also good for fighting dangerous opponents.

Your first few magic items should be Lesser Rods of Extend, they're more useful to Druids than any other class. Your first major item should be a Monk's Belt to get your Wisdom bonus to AC, attach a Wilding Clasp from MIC so it continues to function when you Wild Shape. Later on you'll want a standard Metamagic Rod of Empower for Fire Seeds (berry bombs), and also a standard Rod of Extend with a 6th level Pearl of Power for alternating between Superior Resistance with Energy Immunity x2 every other day, and Energy Immunity x3 on the days in between. A Periapt of Wisdom with a Wilding Clasp is an obvious choice, and the Circlet of Rapid Casting in MIC is extremely useful for low-level buffs.

Be aware of the following spells from Dragon Magic: Call of the Twilight Defender, Haze of Smoldering Stone, and Vision of the Omniscient Eye, and keep in mind that a Druid automatically knows every spell on his class spell list. A few of the Primal- line of spells in that same book are useful for buffing with daily, as are the Heart of- spells in Complete Mage.

Gaiyamato
2009-07-18, 07:58 AM
Even though it does not continue your wildshape etc. Sentinel of Bharrai is a fairly nice prc.
I combine it with the class options from UA, losing animal Companion and wild shape in favour of some other odds and ends. Do that and you lose nothing by going into the sentinel prc.
Having Fast Movement and monks AC bonus is pretty cool too. ;)

And you still get a Bear shape from Sentinel, giving you some limited shape changing ability anyway. Plus full caster progression.

AstralFire
2009-07-18, 08:01 AM
You know, losing Animal Companion progression isn't always a downside. I've known a fair amount of players (and DMs) who don't like them either thematically or because having two melee statblocks to mess with from one character can be annoying. I usually make use of animal companions since their stats grow, but I never use summons for this reason - I don't like having to look up unfamiliar stats regularly.

Mr.Moron
2009-07-18, 08:06 AM
You know, losing Animal Companion progression isn't always a downside. I've known a fair amount of players (and DMs) who don't like them either thematically or because having two melee statblocks to mess with from one character can be annoying. I usually make use of animal companions since their stats grow, but I never use summons for this reason - I don't like having to look up unfamiliar stats regularly.

I find this very easily solved by simply keeping likely summon stats-on hand. There are only a handful of "Top Choices" that you might summon at any given level, so it's pretty easy to jot these down and ignore the rest.

I tend to summon with regularity on a character capable of doing so, and I've not run into any lookup-related problems since I started doing that.

Uin
2009-07-18, 08:06 AM
Moonspeaker in Races of Eberron for shifters. About the only druid PrC worth taking outside Planar Shepard.

AstralFire
2009-07-18, 08:11 AM
I find this very easily solved by simply keeping likely summon stats-on hand. There are only a handful of "Top Choices" that you might summon at any given level, so it's pretty easy to jot these down and ignore the rest.

I tend to summon with regularity on a character capable of doing so, and I've not run into any lookup-related problems since I started doing that.

I'm not a monster user in the first place, so my eyes sort of glaze over browsing monster stats for summons. I've chosen a hawk the twice I've played a druid and the once I've had a high level ranger as it was.

Salt_Crow
2009-07-18, 09:04 AM
Lion of Talisid (BoED) loses 2 levels of WS but it makes up for it in my opinion.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-07-18, 09:55 AM
I double checked my sources; Fleshrakers (CR 2, by the way.) are indeed in MM3, while Venomfire is in Serpent Kingdoms (Faerun specific; I also should have mentioned it's a third level spell (level 5! I wonder if there might be other cool class features druids get around there) with a duration of hours/level.).Venomfire is one of the bioweapons of the D&D world. Only use it if adventuring with a Hulking Hurler, a Cheater of Mystra, and a Cancer Mage. It's too broken to even bring up during thought expiriments. Fleshrakers are reasonable compared to it.

shadow_archmagi
2009-07-18, 10:01 AM
Become a Planar Shepard. Pick the Positive Energy Plane.

Use it to heal your enemies until they explode.

Haven
2009-07-19, 02:00 AM
One extremely cheesy trick is to have your animal companion take Vow of Poverty in BoED

"My pet bear has taken an oath never to collect wealth!"

"...what?"

DJDizzy
2009-07-19, 02:08 AM
Planar shepherd, is the most retardedly broken thing in DnD

I want to smack the guy who made it around with a dead trout

woodenbandman
2009-07-19, 12:52 PM
That's not entirely true, there are more broken things. It's just that planar shepherd smacks you in the face chanting "look at me, I'm broken!", while the other stuff, like Planar Binding for infinite Wishes is a little harder to think of. The same thing is true of Spellstitching Animate Dread Warrior (They literally suggest that doing so is a good idea.)

Zaq
2009-07-19, 04:15 PM
One little bit of ridiculousness that's totally allowed under the rules is that your animal companion can take the feat Shape Soulmeld. Repeatedly. They can also take feats that give them Essentia, and eventually feats that give them chakra binds.

That's right. Your Fleshraker can totally be a mini-Incarnate. Perhaps not as good as a real one, but on top of it, they're still a Fleshraker.

It's also arguable that they can take the feat Share Soulmeld (since they can Share Spells with you, right?) and thus you also get all the benefits of their soulmelds. You know, because Druids totally needed Soulmelds (which, incidentally, work perfectly fine in wild shape) on top of what they already have.

Disclaimer: Please don't actually do this. Druids really don't need even more power. This might not be Planar Shepard levels of craziness, but it's still profoundly asinine, legal though it may be.

Moriato
2009-07-19, 04:36 PM
Lion of Talisid (BoED) loses 2 levels of WS but it makes up for it in my opinion.

This. I love Lion of Talisid. It give you full spellcasting, nearly full wildshape, full animal companion, and just a bunch of nifty little misc abilities like fear immunity, pounce, scent, haste, etc.

Can find it here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031004b