PDA

View Full Version : Creating deities.



Shinizak
2009-07-19, 12:05 AM
Most notably naming them and balancing them. I've looked through "Deities and Demigods" and didn't really find anything more then how to stat them (since you really need to stat a frickin' god) and the DMG's PARAGRAPH was a little less then helpful.

SilveryCord
2009-07-19, 12:11 AM
Decide their flavor and what they rule over--what is their portfolio--and then you're good. you don't really need to stat them, just consider them an epic character in an appropriate class for their level with divine ranks. Really, there aren't many game types when you should actually need statted out dieties beyond "They're powerful", and if you're not good at homebrewing you should probably avoid that kind of campaign.

Shinizak
2009-07-19, 12:17 AM
Decide their flavor and what they rule over--what is their portfolio--and then you're good. you don't really need to stat them, just consider them an epic character in an appropriate class for their level with divine ranks. Really, there aren't many game types when you should actually need statted out dieties beyond "They're powerful", and if you're not good at homebrewing you should probably avoid that kind of campaign.

Um, sorry. I guess sarcasm doesn't translate over text. What I want is a way to make a god and name them without having to pull a name out my ass.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-07-19, 12:18 AM
Balance? They're gods. Make sure none of the alignments has a large advantage in number or power of gods, and you've got them balanced. You already have the right ideas on stats, after all(they can do anything[from the perspective of a mortal, in actuality they are somewhat limited when compared to each other], but they are prevented from overt interference by a long-ago agreement/order imposed from an overdeity/because doing anything more than granting spells would leave them exposed to attack by other gods.

As for making them up, I'd just come up with which things need a god, then see if any of them have an obvious alignment/personality, then make someone up who's the opposite. Then I come up with gods for the less obvious ones. And then I combine whichever domains I couldn't come up with ideas for into the established gods. It should end up with something like the anciet polytheistic religions. Can't help you with naming, though, since I'm not good with that even for mortals.

Of course, this is usually what I'm trying to come up with:
NG Goddess of Death, the angel of mercy, bringing an end to suffering and releasing you from bonds. Cries for each one she must save.

Also, racial gods are stupid IMHO. Either everyone worships the same set of gods(either non-racial or as mixed as the real world) or each race has it's own pantheon with a couple crossovers(the Elf God of Slaughter is probably an Orc). There's no reason for exactly one Dwarf god.

erikun
2009-07-19, 12:29 AM
You mean for your campaign? Creating gods is about the same as creating nations or landmasses - you think up an idea, then put it into the world. I'm not sure how this is any more (or any less) "pulling out of your ass" than the rest of it.

As for how gods are "made" by the rules? Well, you get an epic level (20+) character, then allow them to achieve a divine rank - it's as simple as that. There aren't any hard-and-fast rules over which domains your new demideity has access to, except that lower deities generally have less domains, and most higher deities don't have domains which overlap. (You might have a greater god of death and a lesser elven god of death, but you probably wouldn't have two major gods of death.)

In truth, the lack of rules is to allow the DM broad interpretation over what should and should not be included with a god. If my LN Wizard/Frost Mage/Archmage gainst divinity, he'd probably have access to the domains of Cold, Winter, Law, and Protection - because he uses his powers to affect the environment, and ward local towns. However, my friend's CE Wizard/Frost Mage/Archmage might have Cold, Chaos, Death, and Destruction - she uses her powers to freeze anything that might get in her way.

Two very similar characters from a class/mechanics point of view, but their attitudes and outlook give them very different domains.

chiasaur11
2009-07-19, 12:42 AM
You want a deity?

Well, I have just the guy.

Fire God! (http://jrients.blogspot.com/2009/02/um-fear-my-wrath-puny-mortals.html)

Random832
2009-07-19, 02:25 AM
What I want is a way to make a god and name them without having to pull a name out my ass.

Where else are you going to pull a name out of? I mean, it's a name, the only other real option is to steal it from somewhere (whether that somewhere is fiction [either fictional deities or other fictional characters], real-world mythology, real-life political/historical/celebrity figures), it pretty much just comes down to "make up a name" or "use a name from somewhere else". For making up a name, there are programs out there that will throw some letters together in a way that resembles syllables, but it's up to you to decide what sounds right.

bosssmiley
2009-07-19, 05:20 AM
You want a deity?

Well, I have just the guy.

Fire God! (http://jrients.blogspot.com/2009/02/um-fear-my-wrath-puny-mortals.html)

*Heh* Fire God. He's even crazier than Govgim Dahl, the Reluctant Demigod (http://monstersandmanuals.blogspot.com/2008/11/govgim-dahl-reluctant-demigod.html).

@OP: balancing gods? That's a good one. They're gods. You know, immensely powerful beings that can do what they like to squishy mortals without being held to account for it.

It's not 3E, but Wrath of the Immortals is probably the best look at creating a society, political system and portfolios for ascended gods in D&D. Of course there is overlap and duplication in their spheres of interest, but that is entirely intentional.
Runequest talks about the gods as repeating mythic patterns of behaviour who are made stronger by having mortals mimic their defining actions.
Just choose how gods work in your world and go from there...

warrl
2009-07-21, 04:03 PM
Naming deities doesn't present any obvious challenges as compared to naming other things.

Start with a nice list of names - a baby name book, a list of place names... not necessarily from your area/culture. Perhaps, for example, a list of the towns and cities of Kurdistan.

If you don't know how to pronounce something - just pick a pronunciation.

If something seems too ordinary - modify it in some way. Throw away all or part of the first syllable. Or some other syllable. Move the stress from one syllable to another. Change the vowel in a stressed syllable (don't forget that many three-syllable and longer English words have a major stress and a minor stress - both count). Change some consonants. Whatever.

PLUN
2009-07-21, 04:11 PM
Naming Dieties? I would start with the culture they came from. Some cultures like to give their Gods names, stories, roles. Maybe associate them with star formations. Others are much more pragmatic. The only name that really matters is what the worshippers call them, because that's where the players get their information from. A race of pedants might worship Pendalar, The Archer of moon and Stars. A marauding horde sings it's praises to The Blood River. The marauding horde next door might think they're a bunch of pretentious twits and just scream Slaughter at the top of their lungs.

Of course, culture spanning gods might have many of these names. Also different symbols and practices. That's where things get interesting.

Nai_Calus
2009-07-21, 05:54 PM
The God of the Elves must be named Randy. There is no other option. No, not even Corellon, unless you're using him specifically. You must otherwise have Randy the Elf God.

(Which is probably too obscure for anyone to get...)

Dizcorp
2009-07-21, 06:36 PM
Never shy away from liberally thieving gods and goddesses from real-world cultures.

You can be as obscure with it as you like, though. Hephaistos for a smithing god might be too easy for your fans of Ancient Greece. Ptah, not so obvious (Egyptian). Luchtain, even more obscure (one of the Celtic ones). If you want a Christian bent on your world, go for Dunstan, who was an English saint of (gold)smiths.

My game world (a mostly vanilla affair with extra gods, the odd additional race and a bit of backstory) has some extra gods tacked onto the 3.5 vanilla (i.e. Greyhawk) pantheon.

Ishtar (Babylonian fertility goddess) appears as the NG bride of Pelor, your run-of-the-mill Gaia clone with various favoured weapons based on the four seasons. Heraclius (named for the Byzantine emperor) is the LN father of Heironeous and Hextor, basically the god of empires. He favours the mace.

My game world has three moons, who have their own gods (the children of Pelor and Ishtar), who are the CG Pelen, goddess of nomads and elves (she's the big, Luna-like moon, her name's the Welsh word for "ball"), the TN Carreg, goddess of bards, duelling and innkeepers (Welsh again, "stone", the medium-sized moon), and the LE Heller, god of death and necromancy and a big big rival of Nerull (can't remember where his name comes from though).

As for creating deities, think of three power levels. For the "greater" gods, give them four domains. For the "medium" gods, give them three. And for the "lesser" gods, give them two or three. If you want an entirely new pantheon, start from scratch. I was lazy, but then, I found the existing one in the Player's Handbook to be good, it just needed a bit of personal flavour.

Don't bother with stats for the gods. Unless you're running uber-epic campaigns, "oh, I'm bored, let's slay a pantheon", it's pointless. I've DMed for four years and the highest level adventures I've bothered running is at level 12. Mainly because my players are useless with maths.

Hail Heraclius! :)

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-07-21, 07:09 PM
Ninja'ed but I was also goin to suggest begging, borrowing and stealing. Here's a quick and silly example.

First attempt a straight copy...Venus/Aphrodite (love) lover of -> Ares/Mars (war) son of -> Juno/Hera (home) faithful wife to -> Jove/Zeus (sky) ruler of the gods...

Not what you want? OK. Second attempt, change the names...Nevusin (love) lover of -> Sarmane (war) son of -> Raheme (hearth) -> wife to Sezume (sky) ruler of the gods ...

Too transparent? OK. Third attempt, alter the functions/stories...Nevusin (goddess of healing and life) victim of -> Sarmane (god of evil and destruction) illegitimate son of -> Raheme (goddess of home and safety) unfaithful wife to -> Sezume (god of the sky) ruler of the gods...

Yes it's a little plain but it was fast.

Now fourth, adapt your "gods" to existing domains...
Nevusin (goddess of healing and life) domains: good, healing, knowledge
Sarmane (god of evil and destruction) domains: destruction, evil, war
Raheme (goddess of home and earth) domains: earth, planning, protection
Sezume (overlord of sky): domains air, law, sun

Just read up on your myths, historical or fictional, and find the one you like and "sample" the parts you like.

Draz74
2009-07-21, 07:16 PM
I've found the Encyclopedia Mythica (http://www.pantheon.org/) to be very helpful in naming/coming up with fantasy gods for various cultures.

Ironically, this site might be less helpful the more familiar your players are with the culture involved. Most American gaming groups, for example, wouldn't much enjoy a Greek-themed pantheon created using this site, because many of the names involved would be the same as already-familiar mythological figures, which would be some combination of trite and confusing.

However, when I need e.g. a Polynesian-themed set of fantastical names, for a typical American audience who knows next to nothing of Polynesian culture (especially non-Hawaiian cultures), it's a very handy tool.

SoD
2009-07-21, 07:32 PM
Also, racial gods are stupid IMHO. Either everyone worships the same set of gods(either non-racial or as mixed as the real world) or each race has it's own pantheon with a couple crossovers(the Elf God of Slaughter is probably an Orc). There's no reason for exactly one Dwarf god.

Have you read the Races of X series? There isn't just a single Dwarf god, there's several. Same goes for Elves, Gnomes, etc. Even in the various MM's there's mentions of other Orcish gods.

Set
2009-07-21, 10:44 PM
If you want a pantheon of dieties that 'feels' like a real world mythology, consider making a list of diety archetypes found in real world pantheons. A Sky Father (Zeus, Odin, etc.), a Maimed God (Odin, Hephaestos, etc.), a Hunter (Herne, Artemis, etc.), a Trickster (Anansi, Loki, some interpretations of Hermes, etc), a Smith (Hephaestos), a Goddess of Love and Beauty (Aphrodite, Freya, etc.), a shining Sun God (Apollo, Surya, Amaterasu, etc).

If you instead just want a pantheon of specifically D&D relevant dieties, look at the various Domains you want to include, and try to mash up the dieties so that each alignment type has access to a fair selection of Domains. Make sure that the *only* god of Magic isn't evil, for instance, unless you specifically want to craft a world where arcane magic is a mistrusted force, kept out of sight of the common man, due to it's associations with the god(dess) of murder, madness and the moon, or whatever. You might also want to 'mix things up' and throw in an evil god with Domains like Sun, Glory and Nobility (not your usual god of Tyranny!) or a good goddess with the Cold, Darkness, Destruction, Retribution or Weather Domains or something equally associated more commonly with 'not nice' dieties, like Scalykind or Vermin.

Going the Dragonlance / Kalamar / Mystara route and having each diety going under different names or associations in different lands, or as worshipped by different races, is a great way to really flesh out a single diety. The god of virility and strength and competition could be seen as an athlete, warrior and generally physical dude to humans, and be seen as a diety of passion, the living body, animals and grace to elves, and physical labor, crafts and endurance to dwarves. His Domains of Artifice, Strength, Renewal, Competition, Animal, etc. would be the same, but the Dwarves would be more interested in the physical labor/crafts aspect, and the elves the natural body/renewal aspects and the humans the competition/strength angle.

Orcs might regard this same god as the diety of overpowering strength, used to dominate the weak, and his 'spring/renewal' aspect would be twisted to a survival of the fittest philosophy that promotes the subjugation and destruction of the weak, to free up resources for the strong, just as the natural things that die over a harsh winter free up resources for new growths and new life come the springtime.

Making the gods transcend alignment, personally, in most cases (with their Clerics being allowed to choose an alignment, and preach only the tenets of the faith that match their ethics or morality, while regarding contradictory tenets as 'heresies' or 'misinterpretations of doctrine' would allow an orc, elf, dwarf and man to worship the same diety, and to alternately see him as a whimsical and flighty lover of life and ladies (elves), a dour hard-working laborer who scorns the undisciplined (dwarves), a hyper-competitive and sometimes jealous patron of physical excellence (humans) and a slave-taking brutalizer of the weak (orcs).

As for names, go to any online source of names and pillage indiscriminately. Feel free to take a name and swap out or rearrange letters until something 'sounds cool.' It doesn't matter if Ares was never called Aerik, if you like the sound of Aerik better for your war-god. If you are coming up with a pantheon of a vaguely Egyptian society, look at Egyptian names online and find the ones that don't suck. (Sutekh? Sekhmet? Sobkh? Cool. Nut? Not so much.) Ditto for pantheons for societies loosely inspired by Persian, Mesopotamian, Babylonian, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Native American, African, etc., etc. cultures. Again, feel free to tweak the names to suit your ear. You are crafting a fantasy world, so there is no need to be 'authentic' in the names you choose for your dieties, so long as you don't describe an area as 'kinda like Greece' and then use names like Nuada Airgitlamh or Huitzilopochtli or Tsuki-no-Yona for your 'Greek God analogues.'

If you're designing cultures not really based on any real world setting, you'll have to cobble together names that 'sound right' based on what you imagine their language to sound like. If the culture has a list of names available in the Campaign Setting book, you can look at the name elements and go from there, but if you are inventing the setting whole cloth, that will take a little extra thought. On the upside, that's thought that you don't necessarily have to do yourself. Once you've decided that this country / region is going to exist, and a player has told you that they want to play a character from this region, you can tell them that you haven't hammered into place a language style, and they can name their character whatever they want (as long as it isn't lame, like Crunch Ironjock), and that you'll base the native language off of their choice. If they choose a pseudo-Welsh looking collection of consonants (that is pronounceable by humans and won't distract from gameplay), they you can go nuts and have the dieties of Sun and Sky and Sea and Stone known by local names like Mabhriogen or Daffyd or Bn Gwyll.