Keeping Fit/Weight Loss advice

[Shadowbane]

Hi!

I'm 5'7'', 163 lbs, 15 years old, and actually fairly in shape. However, I won't be taking any form of P.E. this coming year, and I'm scared of gaining lots of weight.

What I'm currently doing now is cutting down my food intake by quite a bit, eating more fruits and vegetables, and exercising more. I do crunches and push-ups every morning before my shower and every evening before bed.

I was recently on vacation, but now that I'm back I'm going to start doing some running.

I want to build some muscle mass and keep fit, but as I'm a musician (professional, actually) my time is limited and much of my day is spent sitting down practicing or writing music.

Any ideas on how to help me keep fit?

Thank you in advance!

[Pyrian]

At your age, I think your best bet would be some sort of class. Martial arts, dance, whatever, something that involves about an hour of exercise at least a few times a week.

[Shadowbane]

That's the problem. I don't have that option. No money, and no time.

[Faulty]

Any gyms near you? If so, get a membership, and get a trainer. Tell him or her exactly what you want to get out of working out, and they'll show you through the gym and tell you what to do.

Also, you need food to stay healthy! Eat less bad food. Cut out on everything with high fructose corn syrup in it. Stop drinking soda if you do. Avoid empty calories (lots of chips and stuff). Drink a lot of water. Replace any bad stuff you drink with water, and you'll be golden. Other options are drinking natural teas, or replacing sugar and cream in your coffee with Silk brand soy creamers, which taste great and are better for you. Protein shakes after you work out can keep you full so you don't snack much. Eat smaller meals, but have healthy between meal snacks, like carrots or granola.

You might want to consider vegetarianism; if you do it right it's an incredibly healthy diet that can help you lose weight.

Good luck!

[Pyrian]

No money, and no time.If you have no time, then it doesn't really matter, does it? You're already out of options.

BTW, be careful of dieting. It's great to eat healthy foods but do not let yourself get hungry. If your body decides it's starving it'll up your "normal" weight point (the fat level which your hunger and energy levels automatically conspire to maintain), quite possibly for the rest of your life.

[Shadowbane]

The no time is more, "I don't have time to take classes." One of my issues is this:

I can't drive yet.

So even if I have the time, no one can drive me. I was kinda wrong when I said that I have no time. More specifically, my parents have no time. :p

My diet right now:

-Water and fat free milk.
-Rice and chinese food.
-Fruits of all kinds
-No soda, no ice cream, no deserts. (This is very depressing. xD)

Actually, is chocolate milk ok? The type where you mix the powder with regular milk?

[Recaiden]

I agree that some sort of class would be a good idea. For me, swimming team and swimming class in the summer have really helped be improve and maintain my fitness.

And don't drink soda or energy drinks; stick with water.

[Berserk Monk]

That's the problem. I don't have that option. No money, and no time.

Go for walks/jogging. All you need are shoes and some amount of distance. Go around you block a few times if you can't think of any wear to go.

[Shadowbane]

I live in a beautiful hilly valley, so there's great places to run. How long/far would you say is appropriate?

I know I can do 1 maybe 2 miles relatively easily, and 3 to 3 1/2 with some effort, so what would you recommend?

[Player_Zero]

At your age you don't need to worry about gaining weight. In fact, worrying about it is more of a problem than your weight.

[Hell Puppi]

May I suggest...?

http://www.runnersworld.com/channel/0,,s6-238-0-0-0,00.html

Unfortunately you likely won't gain muscle MASS from running, but you will gain tone, unless you're one of those people like me who gain muscle mass from just about any excersice.
If you want to 'bulk up' I'd suggest investing in an inexpensive, light dumbell set and doing exsersizes with them.


...okay I can't spell excersize, and Firefox isn't helping. :smallsigh:

[Berserk Monk]

I live in a beautiful hilly valley, so there's great places to run. How long/far would you say is appropriate?

I know I can do 1 maybe 2 miles relatively easily, and 3 to 3 1/2 with some effort, so what would you recommend?

Start off slow. Set reasonable goals. Just jog until you feel tired, and try to go a little bit farther everyday.

[OverdrivePrime]

It sounds like you're doing the right things in terms of eating. I was a (very skinny) wrestler when I was your age, and I generally ate a lot of rice, pasta and foods without a lot of processed materials. I think that's the key. The fewer processed ingredients in your diet, the easier you're making it for your body to stay healthy and in shape. I did the exact same routine you're doing. 3 sets of 100 crunches and 3 sets of 50 push-ups about a half hour before bed.

Adding a running program to that is a really good idea, though keep in mind that if you're burning calories regularly, you'll have to eat a little more. Adding carbs like whole-wheat bread or pasta to augment a cardio program is a good idea, as long as you don't overdo it.

Stay away from soda, and also avoid more than 1 glass of juice a day. You would not believe how many complex sugars are in juice. A good friend of mine works out as often as I do, generally eats the same way I do and has a similar build, but has a pot belly he can't get rid of because he drinks 4-5 glasses of fruit juice a day.

One more thing on running - a cardio program of at least 1/2 hour at a time is going to have the best effect on you. Any amount of cardio exercise is good, but at less than a half hour of exercise, your body is mostly burning through water weight that you'll replace throughout the day. When you're sweating for more than a half hour, your body starts chewing into your fat reserves.

If you have a bike, I'd suggest alternating cycling days with running days. Once I started putting on a lot of mass (I was 150 pounds in high school, and a few years ago, was up to about 235 - of varying degrees of muscle and fat), the repetitive pounding of running started taking a toll on my knees. Now that I'm down to about 210, I can run without pain, but when I was upwards of 220 pounds, my knees were just killing me after a run.

Even better is if you start yourself on a triathlete's program: 2 days of running, 2 days of cycling, and 1 day of swimming. If you have access to the high school pool, or an easy body of water like a small local lake, you will get a lot of return out of swimming for about 45 minutes.

Good luck!

[Shadowbane]

It gets insanely hot around my area at about 4:00, so I'm going to start running at about 2:00 and see how long I can go. Not gonna kill myself.

Alternating cycling and running is a great idea, thanks, and thank you Hell Puppi for the link!

Thanks everyone. If you have anymore tips, please, post them!

[Faulty]

-No soda, no ice cream, no deserts. (This is very depressing. xD)

Fruit makes a good dessert. Soy ice cream? :smalltongue:

[Vmag]

Hi!

I'm 5'7'', 163 lbs
That's very good, actually. I'm 5'7 as well, and just weighed in at 162, which is perfectly in regs. It also sounds like you're doing the right thing by maintaining balanced meals and getting some exercises in.

Really, that's everything you need to do right there. If you eat right, get some vegetables in there, you're setting your body up for success. If you work out once in a while, you can even afford to snack regularly, depending on the intensity of your work outs.

I, for one, I like to snack a lot. I can afford it, since I work out for an hour every morning, including two 3+ miles a week, but I doubt you'll be aiming for that so soon in your life. Crunches are good, since it's easy to do a ton of those to burn things off, and pushups can also cut through a lot if you're really smoking yourself.


It sounds like you've already got everything you need to meet your goal. The most important thing is motivation to stick with it, and it already looks like you've got motivation enough.

[Shadowbane]

Awesome, thanks! I did a nice long run today, ran for about 45 minutes. It was nice. Endorphins rock.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Tofu and pretend sugar can make low-sugar, high-protein "desserts," actually. Whey protein and egg whites are the two types of protein most efficiently absorbed by the body.

[Shadowbane]

Awesome. I do admit to craving sweets.

[blackfox]

Wiki'd High Intensity Interval Training (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_training)--at its most basic, it's like, run 2x, walk x. Works well if you don't have all that much time, although when you DO have time I'd also recommend working in long distance runs.

For increasing muscle mass... something that's definitely worked for me is rock climbing, although if you don't have money or a lot of time, that's not going to work as well. :smalltongue: You could try weights--start with something like 5 lbs. and you can do stuff like bicep curls, tricep press, etc. Small barbells are usually pretty cheap. If there's any specific part of the body you'd like to work on strength training for, i know a lot of good upper body stuff from rock climbing.

As for diet, another thing I'd recommend is try to eliminate processed foods--TV dinners, Kraft cheese, etc. Probably this got posted already but it's worked for me. Try to make as much of your own food as you can. If you make something with meat, use turkey or chicken, because it's leaner and healthier than beef or especially pork. Fruits and vegetables are good. Whole grains are good. Ask your friendly neighborhood hippie.

[Jack Squat]

I mentioned these in another thread, but I have a Fit Deck (http://fitdeck.com/) (and a few booster packs), and find it great fun. No need for spending money on weights, and unless you pick up booster packs, you don't even need a chin-up bar.

What I like about it is it's not a set routine. Shuffle the deck and do however many you can or have time for.

I also have a TRX (http://www.fitnessanywhere.com/), and while that is more challenging weight-wise, it's also a great deal more expensive (The kit I have is $210, though I got it free) and there are set routines; so if you don't have 45 consecutive minutes a day to spare -or don't have an attention span that long- it may not be the best choice.

Both of these take up almost no room if space is an issue.


...or you could join a gym and talk to a personal trainer, which works great for most people.

[Shadowbane]

Awesome. Sounds good. I'll look at that Fitdeck, it does look fun. As for 45 minutes a day, I do have that occasionally. Occasionally.

[Faulty]

Awesome. I do admit to craving sweets.

Get Purely Decadent (http://www.turtlemountain.com/products/purely_decadent.html) brand dairy-free ice cream. I've been trying various flavors, and they taste as good as normal ice cream. The Mint Chocolate Chip is orgasmic.


Awesome. Sounds good. I'll look at that Fitdeck, it does look fun. As for 45 minutes a day, I do have that occasionally. Occasionally.

You really should put away enough time to keep yourself healthy.

[afroakuma]

In terms of snacks:

Skip fruit juice for water; get your vitamins from actual fruit, which helps fill you up and supplies fiber.

"White" carbs need to go.

Eating throughout the day is more important than abstaining from "bad" food. If it's a choice between a quick Subway sandwich and not eating lunch, eat lunch. Make choices about it that trim the excess; cheese is a stealth offender, while mayo is usually more blatant. Eating an open-face sandwich trims 80-110 calories on average depending on size, bread type etc.

Protein of any kind is awesome, because it's filling and takes a while to digest. Eggs are an excellent pick in moderation, especially if they have omega-3 oils.

Nuts are another good snack food; look for unsalted nuts such as almonds. They're savory, go well with fruit and deliver oils and proteins in addition to special nutritional benefits.

Lastly, if you're a dairy fan I would look into Astro BioBest yogurt. Tastes great, low-fat (but not reduced fat), probiotic, fulfills a snack craving.

If you feel like a true dessert, vanilla ice cream is a decent bet and goes well with most fruit. Breyers makes a less processed version, which might be your cup of tea, but you might pay for the privilege.

[Faulty]

Almonds are high in fat.

[afroakuma]

Almonds are high in fat.

That they are, but it comes from healthy oils. They're also high in nutrients.


Almonds are a rich source of Vitamin E, containing 24 mg per 100 g.[14] They are also rich in monounsaturated fat, one of the two "good" fats responsible for lowering LDL cholesterol.

[Faulty]

Just sayin'. I drink almond milk and they're my favorite nut. >_>

[afroakuma]

Just sayin'. I drink almond milk and they're my favorite nut. >_>

Well, nut milks in general are high in fat.

But the protein spectrum of almonds is excellent as well. Pales in comparison to whey protein, which is as close to perfection as we'll get, but compares well to most foods.

Peanuts are good, but they're often salted, seasoned or oiled, not to mention addictive as crack. Almonds are less sweet and take a bit longer to chew, so you enjoy them longer and can get away with less.

Just remember that you need fat in your diet. When eating salads or other nutritionally-dense foods, a bit of fat accompaniment is a good thing. A bit of olive oil or some lean meat (chicken) helps in the absorption of fat-soluble vitamins.

[Shadowbane]

Get Purely Decadent (http://www.turtlemountain.com/products/purely_decadent.html) brand dairy-free ice cream. I've been trying various flavors, and they taste as good as normal ice cream. The Mint Chocolate Chip is orgasmic.



You really should put away enough time to keep yourself healthy.

Awesomeness. Thank you. Working on the time thing. Working on it.

As for the nuts, also good to know. Astro Biobest...that's written down, as is Purely Decadent.

Also good to know about eating throughout the day.

Thanks guys!

[Vmag]

Almonds are high in fat.

So are Doritos and pepperoni sticks, but I still made my weigh-in :smallcool:

I've been thinking lately about why snacking on Doritos is easier for me to work off than an actual mean. I've always thought it's because actual meals have actual nutrients and things that your body needs, which stays with you longer, whereas Doritos are just empty and thus you lose it a few bathroom breaks later.

I was half right. I am now under the belief that, since Doritos = corn chips and corn chips = corn, and corn is a food that humans really don't digest, it really IS like eating flavored nothing.

[Faulty]

I like the way they're shaped too... don't know why. I generally drink nothing but lots and lots of water. The almond milk is mainly for cooking and cereal, or alongside a peanut butter sandwich. I occassionally drink these fruit flavored bottled teas, and every other day generally I have a cup of decaf coffee with soy creamer. Occassionally I have a cup of brewed tea, and I've gotten into Kombucha. I try to stick with water though.

Bread wise... I suggest Ezekiel 4:9 bread (http://www.foodforlife.com/sprouted-grain-difference/ezekiel-4-9.html). It's the only bread I eat now. I eat the 7 sprout bread. One bite of that and you'll never go back to white bread.


Also good to know about eating throughout the day.

Thanks guys!

The healthiest thing to do is 7 meals or so a day, not 3. Basically, reduce the size of your big 3 meals, and add snacking and light meals in between. So mid day, eat some granola, or have an peach. Food that's high in protein or fibre can fill you up well. I suggest you try eating tofu. A lot of people think it's gross, but when prepared well, it's delicious. It's also incredibly filling. A small bit of tofu can make a meal that keeps you filled for a while.

[afroakuma]

Also good to know about eating throughout the day.

A secret of a great many skinny people is that they rarely sit down for three squares a day. It's not uncommon to see them having six small snack-meals throughout the day.

Breakfast is one of the best times to bulk up; carbs, fat and protein are all fair game here, because your body will draw on them for fuel for the next few hours. Eating something small every so often (yogurt cup, piece of fruit, handful of nuts) keeps your metabolism active. Just watch out for sugars so that you don't crash.

It becomes easier as you go on, by the way. Remember how veggies were once an acquired taste that were just a bit off? Fatty and fried foods get that way after a while.

Sites such as NutritionData (http://www.nutritiondata.com/tools/calories-burned) are excellent for learning about the value of various foods in the diet.

One random tip: Buy small bananas. When you eat a banana, you're out to eat a banana, not 73 grams of banana. Small banana is just as satisfying, just as nutritious, less carbs.

Another random tip: Your diet likely doesn't supply enough vitamin D. Look into it, and maybe chat with your doctor about taking vitamin D and calcium. They're cheap and arte a valuable combo. Your lifestyle might be providing you enough of both, but it can't hurt to find out and get the jump on maintaining excellent bone health, especially with more protein in your diet.

[Faulty]

Drink Kombucha. Lots of B vitamins. Get the fruit flavored stuff though, because the normal stuff tastes like vinegar. The fruit flavored stuff at least tastes like fruity vinegar.

[Shadowbane]

Right, awesome.

Now, one thing I do have a problem with is that my school makes a lot of people do 7 mile runs as like their basic stuff. I'll be flat-out honest:

I feel really, really pathetic next to that. I can do, what, 3.5 miles in about 30 minutes? I'm not a runner, yet.

Worse yet, my oldest friend is like this major athletic star in school. xD I admit this is the cause of my current slight obsession with being fit. I'm tired of just being "X's friend." I'm the musician, and one of the best of my age, but that's not too good for high school.

It's not like I'm unattractive or heavily overweight; I'm not at all. I just kinda feel really inadequate.

So that's a bit of a mental barrier, but I'm gonna work through it.

[Vmag]

...Or, alternatively, drinking water, and using fruits and vegetables for your fruits and vegetables. I never did understand the fruity drink folk.

A lot of water is essential for any successful run, as an added bonus. It aways beats out the scientifically/marketifically designed drinks.

[afroakuma]

Right, awesome.

Now, one thing I do have a problem with is that my school makes a lot of people do 7 mile runs as like their basic stuff. I'll be flat-out honest:

I feel really, really pathetic next to that. I can do, what, 3.5 miles in about 30 minutes? I'm not a runner, yet.

Worse yet, my oldest friend is like this major athletic star in school. xD I admit this is the cause of my current slight obsession with being fit. I'm tired of just being "X's friend." I'm the musician, and one of the best of my age, but that's not too good for high school.

It's not like I'm unattractive or heavily overweight; I'm not at all. I just kinda feel really inadequate.

So that's a bit of a mental barrier, but I'm gonna work through it.

Athleticism is overrated. Being personally fit and feeling good about it is where you want to be. If music's your thing, then hone that. Later on in high school and afterwards, being musical will help you meet a lot more people than being athletic. At the party, the guy whose running skills everyone wants to see is the guy they just sneakily kicked out. :smallbiggrin:

Vmag is absolutely right about water and fruit. Fruit is the best fruit source you can get. :smallwink:

[Shadowbane]

I'm eating a ton of fruit. My personal favorites are green apples, oranges, blueberries and strawberries. I'm eating a lot of those, not too many bananas.

And boy, my music being honed lol. I was recently on international radio (United Nations radio, actually) because of it, so it's pretty good.

[afroakuma]

There you go. Nothing to worry about, then.

[Shadowbane]

Now, how many push-ups and crunches should I be doing about?

[Marzie]

Hey, dude, you're allowed to have dessert! :smallbiggrin: Just try to find something with nutritional value. Make your own smoothies, or try a chocolate-covered frozen banana (they have them at Trader Joe's and the King's near me and they are SO good). Read the labels on the things you eat; as a general rule try to avoid stuff that has ingredients that your grandparents wouldn't recognize. Eat when you're hungry, drink a lot of water, and always stay active and moving. Have to wait for something to heat up in the microwave? Sounds like a good time to do push-ups. Waiting for water to boil? Jumping jacks. Take the stairs instead of the elevator. That kind of thing - just don't stop moving.

I'd also be careful about rice and Chinese food - white rice is pretty much nutritionally void, so swap out for brown rice, or couscous. Even the 'healthier' choices at a Chinese food place tend to have a lot of sugar and salt in them. The fried foods can be even worse... you might as well eat a few cheeseburgers at McDonald's for some of them.

It can be hard at first, but once you start eating healthy chances are you'll never want to go back - it makes you feel pretty darn amazing.

[Vmag]

Now, how many push-ups and crunches should I be doing about?

My wife's a bit on the unhealthy side, but I have her doing 1000 daily, just cause they're easy to do. She breaks it up though, so it's not all 1000 at once. It's definitely been helping her slim, and puts a cap on the natural daily weight gain; it's either stabilize or lower on that program.

[afroakuma]

1000? Crunches, I hope. :smalleek:

Even that's probably a bit much for you, Shadowbane.

[Vmag]

Yeah, just crunches. If they were full situps I'd be having her do less, but the results have been stellar. She would love to simply do 250 or 500 a day, but she's been doing 1000, even at her level of unhealthiness, so she's shown she can do it.

Now, our client here isn't my wife, he's a bit healthier. 1000 crunches shouldn't be too much for him, but I don't know his physiology personally either. Besides, it's a nice, pretty number.

[Shadowbane]

...Good lord. I'm splitting that up into sets. I know I can't do that many push-ups. My arms ache after 150-ish and cello practice.

[Ninja Chocobo]

Yeah, just crunches. If they were full situps I'd be having her do less

There is a difference?

[Shadowbane]

Yes. You don't move your lower back with crunches.

[afroakuma]

There is a difference?

Ostensibly. I don't know what it is.

[Vmag]

There is a difference?

Big difference. A situp is defined as going from the starting position (on your back, knees bent 90 degrees, fingers interlaced behind your head) to the up position (base of the neck directly above the base of your spine), and back down (one rep).

A crunch, with all its infinite variations, is merely raising your torso a little to pinch on your abdomen.

Don't ask me to quote the FM though; I'd hop on Google before you for that.

[Tharivol123]

I didn't see anyone else mention it, but I could have missed it. I know you said you don't have access to a car, but what I did in high school was ride my bike everywhere. I don't know how practical it is in your area, but it did wonders for me. I was 6 foot even and 175 lbs all through high school. In the ten years since getting a car, I've put on about 40 pounds but going for about 5-10 miles a day on the bike has helped take it back off.
It is also fine to treat yourself once in a while, just as long as it isn't a constant thing. There's no harm in eating junk food, as long as it isn't all you eat and you aren't sedentary.

[Renegade Paladin]

First: You are fifteen years old. At your age, the last thing you should be worried about is your weight, presuming you're not morbidly obese, which I assure you, you are not if the listed height and weight figures are correct.

That said, healthy eating (NOT crash dieting, which is one of the worst things you could do to yourself) and regular exercise never hurt anyone. At your age, as long as you don't pig out on high-fat, high-carbohydrate foods and do something other than sit around all day, you'll be just fine.

I am going to do what I did at one point in the dearly departed vegan thread and crib an essay a friend of mine wrote for a relevant thread on another board. Her advice is excellent, and will serve you well if you heed it.
What You Need To Know About Food

I'm going to try to make this as easy as possible. Many of you already know this, but for the young adults starting out in the world some of it may be new, they may need some myths dispelled, and it never hurts to review

Lesson One: What Should I Eat?

1) Eat food
2) Mostly plants
3) Not too much

1) Eat food: if someone from 1900 AD wouldn't recognize it, arguably it's not food. It may be edible, but it's not something we evolved to eat. Now, that other stuff won't kill you if you have an occasional bite, and it will sustain life, but it's not the best stuff for your body.

2) Mostly plants: we're omnivores, we eat just about everything other than grass and wood. Most edible things are plants. Plants include vegetables, fruits, and grains. There are other things, like fungi/mushrooms and meat, but those should not be the focus of your existence. I will also add that things identifiable as "plants" generally have not been overly processed.

3) Not too much: portion control! Don't make it a habit to eat until you are stuffed. Eat slowly. Either two or three meals a day is the ideal. Snacks should be small.


Lesson Two: More About What I Should Eat

1) Eat lots of different food
2) Eat colorful food
3) Eat fresh or frozen food

1) Eat lots of different food: Again, we're omnivores. Strive for variety in your diet. Try new things. Many supermarkets have cooking information on those weird vegetables in the produce aisle, and if they don't, there's the internet for research. If you're eating a lot of apples this week because they're on sale eat different varieties of apples. Farmer's markets are good places to find "heirloom" and other varieties of common vegetables. Eat different kinds of grains. If you eat meat, eat different kinds of meat (but in moderation)

2) Eat colorful food: see lesson one for definition of "food". Multi-colored fruit leather that is 50% high-fructose corn syrup is not food - it's sweet and entertaining, but it's not food. It's candy. I'm talking about food. Don't buy one color of bell pepper, buy them all. This year I planted "green beans" that, in addition to green, are two different yellows and a red. Even stuff like bread - buy different varieties, which are typically different colors. Look for bright colors (bell peppers, fruits, etc.) and dark colors (eggplant, whole grains, etc.)

3) Eat fresh or frozen food: but don't go crazy - yes, vegetables and fruits picked 5 minutes before eating are wonderful but not practical all the time. Some foods, in fact, require a little time to be at their best, such as meat. Some foods, such as pickles, beer, and wine require significant aging, so consider what you are eating as well as how old it is. Vegetables and fruits should be consumed as soon after picking as practical, but a few days or a week is still fresh in most cases. Meat, fish, and dairy have a sharply limited shelf life. Cheese, however, stays fresh longer (one reason for making cheese is that it stays fresh longer than milk) so while a month old bottle of milk may be toxic a month old wheel of cheese is still fresh by our definition. Properly stored grains and nuts stay fresh for months... but a loaf of bread only stays fresh for a week at best. All foods have a shelf life, try to eat only things that have not yet expired. Preservatives of various sorts will extend edibility (that's why we have salty pickles) but that's not really fresh. There's nothing wrong with eating preserved foods, and they can certainly sustain life and health, but ideally you want most of your diet to be fresh.

If you can't get fresh, get frozen. Proper freezing is the least destructive method of preservation the average person has access to. Properly frozen vegetables and meat frozen just after harvest retain more nutrition than "fresh" that takes a week or weeks to get to market. Locally produced frozen green beans eaten mid-winter are better food than unfrozen ones shipped in from half way around the world. Both are food, both are good for you, but in this case the frozen ones are better. Freezing does not stop time - eventually frozen foods deteriorate - but it slows down the aging process considerably.


Lesson Three: Nutrients

1) Macronutrients
2) Vitamins/minerals/micronutrients
3) Don't be afraid of the other stuff
4) The six days out of seven rule

1) Macronutrients: the big three are protein, fats, and carbohydrates. You really do need all three, but not too much of any one of them because an excess of any is bad for you.

Protein builds muscles as well as other body structures, but too much can put a strain on your kidneys. Your body can turn protein into energy instead of using it to build things but it's not really the best fuel. There are two major options for protein: animals/meat, and legume+grains. Note that I have a "+" in the second choice. While both legumes/beans and grains by themselves have protein, much of this is "incomplete" so (without getting too complicated) you body doesn't get to use all of it. As it happens, though, each of the those two possess much of what the other lacks so by combining them you body better utilizes them both. This is reflected in many ethnic cuisines in dishes incorporating beans and rice, beans and maize, wheat and lentils, and so on. So, either eat animal flesh, or else eat a bean+grain combination.

I didn't mention dairy - while dairy is also a good source of protein it is not digestible by most human adults. If, however, you retain the ability to digest dairy into adulthood this is a third option for you and by all means take advantage of it.

Fat gets a bad rap but you really do need some - it's used to build cell membranes, it's used to make hormones, it's used to cushion the bottom of your feet and your internal organs. It is essential in absorbing, transporting, storing, and using the "fat-soluble" vitamins. The problem is too much fat. Fats are very concentrated energy sources, and also something your body stores and recycles very readily. In accordance with Lesson 2:1 - "eat lots of different things" eat different kinds of fats. Vegetables oils, olive oils, butter, animal fats... these are all usable by your body, and all have slightly different compositions. Rather than worry about omega 3 vs. omega 6 and poly vs un-saturated and all that, just eat different fats/oils. If you eat a large variety of foods (as you are supposed to) this will not be difficult. If you eat mostly plants it will be very hard too eat too many fats.

Carbohydrates are your body's major source of ready energy. That's sugar and starch. You do need calories, just not an excess of them. Natural sugars that occur in food are bound up with other stuff we need, so that's the best way to get them, but a moderate amount of pure, refined sugar or starch isn't going to hurt you, particularly when used to make some bitter or sour tasting foods more palatable. If you're eating mostly plants and a lot of different foods (as our earlier lessons taught us) you'll be getting these without too much problem.

All three macronutrients can be burned for energy, but only protein is protein - neither fat nor carbs can be converted to it. Likewise, while your body burns both fat and carbs for fuel, carbs can not do the job that fats do outside of providing energy.

Vitamins/minerals/micronutrients: all those other things we need beyond the Big Three. This can get very complicated, so much so you might wonder how our distant ancestors pre-agriculture lived long enough to reproduce. Simple - they ate food, mostly plants, and a lot of different stuff, and they mostly ate it fresh. Vegetables, fruits, and whole grains have lots of the above. Eat a wide variety and eat them fresh and you won't have to worry (much). What one food lacks another will have, which is another reason for variety.

However, women of childbearing age can lack iron even with a balanced diet. Women of childbearing age must also be careful to get enough folic acid. People with dark skin living at high latitudes (near the poles) can lack vitamin D, especially in winter. People with pale skin living at low latitudes can lack folate. Vegans have to be careful to get enough B12. Everybody, but especially adolescents and women, need calcium AND the vitamin D to use it. Oh, no, this is getting complicated again! What do we do?

A single multi-vitamin a day is a good insurance against such worries. Do NOT consume megadoses or even exceed the recommended daily allowances since, if you're eating a good diet, you'll be getting lots of what you need anyway, and certain nutrients are not good in excess. You don't need an expensive brand, a basic "house brand" vitamin is quite sufficient for most people. Heck, you probably don't even need it every day, every other day would be OK. There are different formulations for children, men, women, pregnant/lactating women, and the old folks (over 50 for men, post-menopausal for women) and appropriate selection on that level will help optimize what you're getting, but it's not essential. Let's be honest here, if you're eating right a multi-vitamin isn't essential either, it's just a way of making sure you're filling in any gaps in your diet for whatever reason they may occur. Getting what you need from food is best, but in reality diets aren't perfect. A basic multi-vitamin is damn cheap and it's good insurance.

3) Don't be afraid of the other stuff: OK, what about candy, booze, preservatives and all that other stuff? The truth is: a little won't hurt you. In fact, a little bit might be good for you. A LITTLE bit. Alcohol - assuming you don't have addiction or medical issues with it - can be beneficial, particularly things like wine and beer which retain some food qualities. Pure ethanol... not so much. It's not required, but if it enhances your enjoyment of food it won't hurt you either - in moderation. Likewise, you don't need candy, but a little bit won't hurt and candy with stuff like nuts or chocolate may provide some benefit - in moderation. Even jelly beans, gummi bears, and other "pure sugar" goodies won't hurt you - in moderation. Just remember, these aren't really "food" in the sense of something you need. These are luxury items and entertainment that you happen to ingest rather than look at, fondle, listen to, or otherwise enjoy. They are like food dye - they can make eating more attractive, but they aren't the essential part of the meal. There is nothing wrong with entertainment and luxury foods - just don't try to live on them. As for preservatives and other additives - realistically, we can't always get fresh food 100% of the time. A well preserved meal is better than a rotten one. And some preservation methods alter the taste of food in ways we come to enjoy. There's nothing wrong with pickles, MRE's, and so on, they all serve important roles. They just aren't the best stuff we could be eating. You can eat all that other stuff - all the stuff that isn't fresh food - and still be healthy as long as you don't eat too much. How much is too much? See below.

4) The six days out of seven rule: in other words, be good most of the time. If six days out of seven you eat the way you're supposed to - food, mostly plants, not too much, fresh, colorful, etc. - and you eat pizza and candy bars the seventh you'll still be alright. Not every meal has to be wonder of carefully balanced foods, just most of them. Stuff like plants and whole grains are "six days" food - eat lots. Stuff like booze and candy are "seventh day" foods - eat little. The human body has the capacity to handle brief shortages (you won't die or even get scurvy if you don't get vitamin C for one day) and transient overabundances. Want to have a meal that's just ice cream and cookies? OK - just make sure every other meal that week is proper eating.

[Shadowbane]

That really useful. Thank you.

[Mitth'raw'nuruo]

First thing is first:


Weight gain/loss is determined by one thing and one thing only. Calories in vs. Calories out. Excluding - for a moment the need for vitamins and minerals - you can eat nothing but Hershey's Milk chocolate all day, and as long as you burn more calories then you take in, you are going to lose weight. You can eat 9.5 a day and be under 2000 cal. a day

Calories ARE a unit for measuring energy, I remember using a cal in chemistry class to figure out how much energy it took in increase the temp of water a degree.



Remember that there is a lot of information out there that is currently "In style." That does not make it correct. Lots of people who make "life style" choices, try to push that choice on others (vegetarians, soy lovers, Atkins users and so forth)

For example; carbs are not the devil; people who are physically in shape eat butt loads of them.

You are a human, not a rabbit, you can eat meat without it killing you. Everything you eat gets broken down into glucose (sugar), by your body; Some floats around like that (blood sugar) and is later broken down into ATP. If you have an excess of calories; you body is going to transform it into fat, and store it.

Your body can get calories from fruits, grains, meat, dairy, so on and so forth. the human as evolved to survive on many things, but to be healthy, your body really should have a mix of the above. Because you do not only need calories. You also need vitamins and minerals and the fact is that we (scientifically speaking) only have a very limited understanding of which ones and now much.


As to staying in shape:

Run.

Push ups/crunches/pull ups are great for working a focused muscle group, and they take very little time; but for an over all workout (multi muscle groups), nothing works like running a couple of miles.

(for the record, I hate running. I lie to myself and do yoga, and tell myself that that is keeping me in shape)

[Shadowbane]

Again, thank you. All this information is deliciously useful, so to speak. I'm not gonna bother with 1000 crunches, to be honest. 300 done regularly is enough, I'm just staying fit, not a marathon runner. As for running, I'm going to just keep increasing every time I run. It's nice, and it gives me an excuse to buy an iPod.

[Berserk Monk]

So I just realized an Achilles's Heel in my jogging workout routine: weather. It's raining here where I live and that means I can't go outside.

Does anyone know the difference between jogging in place and jogging over an actual distance?

[RMS Oceanic]

If you don't care for running, try swimming. Just as physically exertive as running, if not more so, and less strainful on your muscles.

Having autism, the whole self-conscious-about-my-almost-naked-body thing never really bothered me, but I know not everyone can overcome this. I draw the line at speedos, though.

[OverdrivePrime]

I draw the line at speedos, though. ... as do all good people. :smallwink:

Same goes for biker shorts on dudes. Unless he's in the Touring de France or something, a man's biking shorts should be the same ones he wears to play basketball.

[Kcalehc]

So I just realized an Achilles's Heel in my jogging workout routine: weather. It's raining here where I live and that means I can't go outside.

Your skin's waterproof!

Unless it's very cold as well running in rain isn't all that bad; in fact doing training in slightly colder conditions can be beneficial, though I forget exactly how. (though depending on your route and the terrain it may be dangerous - slippery mud and/or narrow road conditions as examples) Just have a towel and a change of clothes ready for when you arrive home.

[Shadowbane]

... as do all good people. :smallwink:

Same goes for biker shorts on dudes. Unless he's in the Touring de France or something, a man's biking shorts should be the same ones he wears to play basketball.

The speedo thing is why I refuse to do water polo. I did buy my friend who is in water polo a leopard spot one though.

[Faulty]

I couldn't do speedos. I have a big ass. :smalltongue:

You should bike to places. Ever do that?

[Shadowbane]

I'm going to start.

[Vmag]

So I just realized an Achilles's Heel in my jogging workout routine: weather. It's raining here where I live and...

Beautiful. I love running in the rain. It's like being surrounded by coolant, all the time!

Most of my career has been running in the cold. It's pretty good, if I do say so myself. You start off shivering, and finish nice and warm. In this newer, warmer environment, my run suffered by a whole minute.

Rain is fantastic, man. You're aligning yourself with the wrong meteorological phenomena.

[Faulty]

Run with an umbrella.

[Totally Guy]

Run with an umbrella.

Or in a speedo.

[Shadowbane]

A leopard spot speedo.

[Faulty]

Leopard spot umbrella.

[potatocubed]

While pursued by a leopard.

[Totally Guy]

Yeah, that'd probably get you fit.:smallsmile:

[Renegade Paladin]

Yeah, that'd probably get you et.:smallsmile:
Fixed. :smalltongue:

[Totally Guy]

Fixed. :smalltongue:

Well. At least you'd lose weight.

[Shadowbane]

I managed seven miles today, which felt really good after the fact. Feeling good, treated myself to a nice, but healthy dinner. (Mostly veggies with brown rice and chicken.) It was good, I feel good, if tired. Gonna sleep well, if nothing else. :p

[Renegade Paladin]

I managed seven miles today, which felt really good after the fact. Feeling good, treated myself to a nice, but healthy dinner. (Mostly veggies with brown rice and chicken.) It was good, I feel good, if tired. Gonna sleep well, if nothing else. :p
That'll do that. You can do seven miles in one go? And you're worried about being out of shape? Kid, that's better than a very large percentage of the population can manage; it's certainly better than I can easily do (though I can pull off similar distances, I don't do it regularly and it's exhausting when I do). You're nowhere near out of shape if you can do it and be merely tired. Maintain what you've got now, and you're golden.

As for your dinner, it's a good start. :smallsmile: One thing that wasn't directly mentioned (though it was implied) in Broomstick's essay that I quoted is that learning to cook for yourself with fresh or frozen ingredients is much better (and cheaper) than prepackaged food or restaurant fare. Restaurants especially add subtle stuff to the food to make it taste better that isn't the best for you; I'm in the business, so I should know better than most. It's nothing sinister; mostly it's just a matter of too much salt and a little more fat than necessary, though mostly too much salt. (High salt intake contributes to high blood pressure later in life, though at your age you shouldn't have to worry about that yet.) Cooking is one of the most valuable life skills anyone can learn, and I can't recommend it enough to not only you but anyone else who reads this.

[Shadowbane]

All the veggies were from the family garden. :D

As for the seven miles, yeah, one go. I was totally amazed that I didn't feel absolutely dead afterwards.

[soj]

First off, running sucks unless you're trying to be the best at running. It's fine on off-days if you're looking to burn a few extra calories but anyone that tells you running is the best way to get fit doesn't have a clue what they're talking about. HIIT, however, is good for burning calories, but it will not work by itself.

Additionally, don't con yourself into vegetarianism or similar veins of food intake. There are really no short-term health benefits for completely omitting meat from your diet (except for the ones people make up). If you simply don't like meat and etc.etc. at least try to maintain decent levels of protein and omega-3 intakes (fish is good, as are eggs).


In order to adequately stay fit for little time investment (and no matter what anyone else tells you), you will have to go to a gym. Running may burn calories in the instance you're running, but it does not help to continually burn calories after you finish (unless you're practicing HIIT). Weight training, however, continues to burn calories long after you've left the gym and even gives you a nice body with muscles enough to defend yourself from a bear (I am in no way insinuating that you should go wrestle a bear (unless you're Russian, but then it should come naturally to you)). Don't waste money or time with a personal trainer. One session might be nice if you're completely new to weight training, but don't bother after that. Use the free weights at the gym, they will force you to build stabilizing muscles which, not only allows you to stay healthy, but definitely improves posture and muscular control, key components of musicianship. I've seen a couple people mention going to a gym and you've not responded to any of them. Going to the gym is the best thing you can do to get fit. I have friends that run every day and watch what they eat but can't escape that skinny-fat look simply because they have absolutely no muscles. If you decide to go to the gym, the days after your first few workouts are going to be hell, but your body will get used to it.

Lower your carb intake, it doesn't matter a ton, but they do not fill you up as easily as fat or protein and tend to be less nutritious (unless you're focusing specifically on whole-grains). Do not drink things with calories if you want to lose weight. Coffee and lattes and their ilk should be avoided. If you want something sweet, water and a fruit of sorts will suffice (I, personally, enjoy frozen mango chunks). It should be noted that if you have too low of a caloric intake, your body will think it's starving and actually store MORE fat.

Otherwise, don't even worry. If you really can't get to a gym, think about springing for a barbel set and maybe a few dumbbells. This (http://newbie-fitness.blogspot.com/2007/01/stripped-5x5.html) is a very nice beginner fitness plan that takes only about an hour every two days and only requires a barbel and some dumbbells.

[Totally Guy]

I hated the Gym I went to. I went there to get fit and make friends but nobody would talk to me. It was headphone central.

On my first day there I thought of a really good joke to tell to the next person that asks how I'm doing. For a whole year I had that joke ready and at no point did I ever get the opportunity to tell it.

I asked about social activities a few times and I was told "There's a barbeque coming up on the board," but there wasn't. So I asked about that and I was told "It's coming up on the board but it's not up yet." And it never was. Just the same adverts for nightclubs.

In the end it felt like it didn't matter whether I sought positive of negative attention. This culminated in me confronting them about the customer service award they were proudly displaying before tearing it up because they certainly didn't deserve it.

[Exeson]

I'll say what I keep on saying on everyone of these threads.

Find a sport or activity you enjoy, it does not matter if it keeps you amazingly fit or not. If you enjoy it you will naturally do it more often and put more effort into it that if you didn't enjoy it, meaning you get fitter and have a good time at the same time.

For example swimming is very very very good for you fitness wise, but most people find it dead boring, so it might not be the best idea to do that as your heart might not be in it.

[Vmag]

First off, running sucks unless you're trying to be the best at running. It's fine on off-days if you're looking to burn a few extra calories but anyone that tells you running is the best way to get fit doesn't have a clue what they're talking about.

I'm not sure what source book you're reading from. Running is fantastic for weight loss, cardiovascular fitness, and overall body health. It's a pain to do it if you haven't done it in ages or not at all, but biweekly running will do wonders for getting you fit.

Heck, it's kept me in Army Standards this long, so it works for me.

I will agree with you that Gym-work is great for improving your fitness, but only if you know what to focus on. Simply floating around the gym for an hour won't help you. For instance, I usually work on my shoulders/chest/triceps area when I go to the gym, so I know exactly what I need to do; I'd do what I had to for an hour, and the results paid off big time. Before that, I used to do just whatever felt like a good idea to try, and the results were less than stellar.


However, you can never underestimate a run. It doesn't just improve your run time; it improves your core muscles, your heart, your metabolism, and you can use it as a high-intensity work-out.

Why, just now I came off of a mile run, followed by sprinting intervals of various lengths for the remaining hour. Truly a killer workout to be said, but boy did I feel good afterwards.

[Faulty]

All the veggies were from the family garden. :D

Fresh food > everything else.

And yeah, if you go to the gym, get a trainer. Seriously. My trainer is the only reason I have any idea what I'm doing.

[Jack Squat]

First off, running sucks unless you're trying to be the best at running. It's fine on off-days if you're looking to burn a few extra calories but anyone that tells you running is the best way to get fit doesn't have a clue what they're talking about. HIIT, however, is good for burning calories, but it will not work by itself.

Running is a great way to be cardiovascularly fit. It's great for losing weight as well, but it is true that you can't really get toned abs and biceps from just running. It's also one of the cheapest ways to get exercise, along with push-ups, sit-ups, and doing pull-ups off of a tree branch.

I always say that walking isn't exercise unless it's hiking for awhile, but I will admit that some people benefit greatly from walking - namely those who look like the stay puft marshmellow man and get winded walking from the no parking zone at the front of the grocery store to the electronic "mart carts."


Additionally, don't con yourself into vegetarianism or similar veins of food intake. There are really no short-term health benefits for completely omitting meat from your diet (except for the ones people make up). If you simply don't like meat and etc.etc. at least try to maintain decent levels of protein and omega-3 intakes (fish is good, as are eggs).

One should really be more concerned with long term benefits rather than short term. But all you really need to do is cut down on sodium, bad fats/oils, and eat some resemblance to the recommended dose of fruits/veggies. Then if trying to lose weight, cut out 500 kcal/day; if trying to gain weight, add 500 kcal.


In order to adequately stay fit for little time investment (and no matter what anyone else tells you), you will have to go to a gym.

Wrong. It's entirely possible to do every work out from the comfort of your living room. You don't even need weights so much as a place do to pull ups and dips. Gyms aren't everyone's idea for a convenient workout, as evidenced by the number of dropped memberships in February.


Don't waste money or time with a personal trainer. One session might be nice if you're completely new to weight training, but don't bother after that.

A personal trainer is a necessity to set up a regime, at the very least. Unless you've been in gyms all your life it's extremely beneficial to have a certified professional tell you what you need to do in order to reach your goals.


Use the free weights at the gym, they will force you to build stabilizing muscles which, not only allows you to stay healthy, but definitely improves posture and muscular control, key components of musicianship.

You can do the same thing without weights. You won't earn the Mr. Universe title using only bodyweight, but it'll get you fit. As I said before, the gym's not the only option, and it's not for everyone.

[Shadowbane]

Well, I'm just going to keep running, so...yeah.

Man, I haven't run that much in a while. My legs ache a little.

[soj]

I'm not sure what source book you're reading from. Running is fantastic for weight loss, cardiovascular fitness, and overall body health. It's a pain to do it if you haven't done it in ages or not at all, but biweekly running will do wonders for getting you fit.
Running is fine for increasing caloric output in a day, however, it does NOT build your "core muscles" and it does NOT increase metabolism unless you practice HIIT.


Running is a great way to be cardiovascularly fit. It's great for losing weight as well, but it is true that you can't really get toned abs and biceps from just running. It's also one of the cheapest ways to get exercise, along with push-ups, sit-ups, and doing pull-ups off of a tree branch.That's true, and if the OP had asked "what's the best way for me to maintain a healthy cardiovascular system?" I would certainly have said running. The OP's concern, however, is about general healthyness and staying trim and fit. Running will help, but you will not be able to get that slim-muscular look without some form of weight training.


One should really be more concerned with long term benefits rather than short term. But all you really need to do is cut down on sodium, bad fats/oils, and eat some resemblance to the recommended dose of fruits/veggies. Then if trying to lose weight, cut out 500 kcal/day; if trying to gain weight, add 500 kcal. The most important long term benefit is staying at an optimal level of health and converting to vegetarianism is only going to make it more likely that he completely gives up on his diet. Eggs, fish and chicken are all amazing foods, use them!


Wrong. It's entirely possible to do every work out from the comfort of your living room. You don't even need weights so much as a place do to pull ups and dips. Gyms aren't everyone's idea for a convenient workout, as evidenced by the number of dropped memberships in February.Okay, I think we can all accept the fact that if you set up a gym in your living room it should be no problem using it instead.


A personal trainer is a necessity to set up a regime, at the very least. Unless you've been in gyms all your life it's extremely beneficial to have a certified professional tell you what you need to do in order to reach your goals.Are you disagreeing with me just to confuse him? You said the paragraph prior that you didn't need a gym and now you say you NEED a PT? I hate to bust your bubble, but most personal trainers are useless. Most make you do convoluted exercises and insist on doing age-old techniques that don't work (spot reducing, for example). If, however, you find a really good one, then sure, go for it if you want, but you don't need it and it is simply cheaper to do things yourself.


You can do the same thing without weights. You won't earn the Mr. Universe title using only bodyweight, but it'll get you fit. As I said before, the gym's not the only option, and it's not for everyone.Yes, but the gym is the best option. The increased quality of life both from being more lean and stronger are penultimate to motivation and success. Additionally, in a 45 minute run vs 45 minutes of lifting comparison, the run will burn slightly more calories immediately, but the lifting session will not only increase muscle mass, but burn 700 additional calories over the next 48 hours simply trying to maintain them, making lifting more efficient for calorie-outputs. It also allowed you to lose body fat more quickly at a safer rate.

I've seen a lot of people give up because they can't get their exercise/diet to work and it's always the same things. They get about 45% of calories from carbs and run every two days but can't figure out why they're not losing weight.

Is there a particular reason why you don't want to do the whole gym route, shadow? If you're simply afraid of not knowing things and looking the fool, don't even worry about it. People there are generally more concerned about what they look like.

e: There are a lot of myths surrounding weight lifting (women, please go to the gym, it won't turn you into a hulking she-beast) and if you (or anyone else) has some questions, go ahead and post them and I'll do my best to answer them all.

vvvvvvvv
When I said running sucks, what I really meant was that, in comparison to going to the gym, it's a pretty mindless chore that isn't as effective as working out (cardiovascular fitness aside).

[NYYanks6083]

"Running Sucks" is a bit harsh, but I think I understand the point he was trying to make.

Running definitely has its uses. It's a great maintenance exercise for maintaining cardiovascular fitness, inexpensive and as long as the weather cooperates, you can do it pretty much whenever. If you are out of shape, running is a great way to start. It helped me drop from 195-165 in college( im 5'6 so 195 was a bit much haha). And running 7 miles is very ,very impressive.

The most effective workout I've ever found though was my Boxing class, which was a series of free weight exercises (low weight high reps), cardio exercises and boxing drills in 5 minute bursts for an hour that changed every week. Now as you've said, you don't have time for classes, but the key part was that you vary your workout and constantly through new exercises at yourself. Try getting a pull-up bar and mixing those in. If you have free-weights, create a circuit of 4-5 exercises, and change them up every few weeks. Your body adapts to things, so if you keep doing the same thing (running, push-ups) you'll start seeing diminished returns after a while. I'm not saying stop doing those, just mix in other stuff too. Run for 20 min, then do a set up push-ups, then crunches, then run again, it'll keep your body guessing which is good.

[Jack Squat]

The most important long term benefit is staying at an optimal level of health and converting to vegetarianism is only going to make it more likely that he completely gives up on his diet. Eggs, fish and chicken are all amazing foods, use them!

I wasn't actually disagreeing with you. I heartily enjoy meat. However, eating peanut butter is healthier than baby back ribs, and both are a form of protein. I was merely clarifying that all that really needs to be done is to take the salt off the kitchen table and eat a salad every so often.


Are you disagreeing with me just to confuse him? You said the paragraph prior that you didn't need a gym and now you say you NEED a PT? I hate to bust your bubble, but most personal trainers are useless. Most make you do convoluted exercises and insist on doing age-old techniques that don't work (spot reducing, for example). If, however, you find a really good one, then sure, go for it if you want, but you don't need it and it is simply cheaper to do things yourself.

There's plenty of personal trainers that do home appointments as well, my mom is one of them. However, I was more stating that if you do go to a gym, spend the money on a PT as a lot of them do know what they're doing.

From my experiences with talking with them, I'd say that a general guideline is that if they're overweight or what they say sounds ridiculous, it's probably better to find someone else. You wouldn't want someone teaching you how to work on computers if they can't hook up a printer. Same principles apply.


Yes, but the gym is the best option. The increased quality of life both from being more lean and stronger are penultimate to motivation and success. Additionally, in a 45 minute run vs 45 minutes of lifting comparison, the run will burn slightly more calories immediately, but the lifting session will not only increase muscle mass, but burn 700 additional calories over the next 48 hours simply trying to maintain them, making lifting more efficient for calorie-outputs. It also allowed you to lose body fat more quickly at a safer rate.

I wasn't saying only run. Lifting weights isn't the only way to strength train and build muscle mass. That's all I was trying to get across. In fact, I dare say that bodyweight training is much more practical than bench presses and squats, even if the visual results aren't as outstanding.

[Pyrian]

Guys, guys. People seem to treat exercise regimens like religions; the reality is that most attempts to show significant differences between generally similar regimens have shown none whatsoever. Get some exercise, and keep it up. Don't worry too much about doing exactly this or exactly that, and don't believe anybody who tells you that your particular exercise is useless.

[Faulty]

The most important long term benefit is staying at an optimal level of health and converting to vegetarianism is only going to make it more likely that he completely gives up on his diet. Eggs, fish and chicken are all amazing foods, use them!

You more easily digest protein from plants than from animals, and how is that giving up on a diet? >_>

He should drop dairy regardless. Dairy is bad for you.

[Jack Squat]

He should drop dairy regardless. Dairy is bad for you.

This is news to me. I've heard that we often consume dairy products long past when they're needed for bone growth, but I can't say I've heard anything saying it's actually detrimental to one's health (unless you're lactose intolerant).

Any sources to clarify this?

[Shadowbane]

Well I'm still growing so I'm going to continue drinking dairy.

[Shikton]

The best advice I can give is simply to work out regularily. Do cardio and some weights (full body program every time is perfectly fine), and be sure you actually break a sweat.

EDIT: And if you're still growing, eat prett much whatever you want. Your body will eat away those carbs regardless. And some protein shakes actually do work.

[Renegade Paladin]

You more easily digest protein from plants than from animals, and how is that giving up on a diet? >_>
1.) We more easily digest meat in general, although that doesn't mean that we don't need mostly plants, of course. There's a reason that herbivores have much more complex and lengthy digestive tracts than omnivores and carnivores; plants are generally harder to thoroughly digest. 2.) The claim was that going vegetarian abruptly instead of more moderate dietary changes would make it more likely for him to give it up and go back to his old ways.

He should drop dairy regardless. Dairy is bad for you.
Because osteoporosis is great, amirite? :smallannoyed: Evidence, please?

[Faulty]

1.) We more easily digest meat in general, although that doesn't mean that we don't need mostly plants, of course. There's a reason that herbivores have much more complex and lengthy digestive tracts than omnivores and carnivores; plants are generally harder to thoroughly digest. 2.) The claim was that going vegetarian abruptly instead of more moderate dietary changes would make it more likely for him to give it up and go back to his old ways.

Because osteoporosis is great, amirite? :smallannoyed: Evidence, please?

Quoting Skinny Bitch here:

"Researchers at Harvard, Yale, Penn State and the National Institutes of Health have studied the effects of dairy intake on bones. Not one of these studies found dairy to be a deterrent to osteoporosis. On the contrary, a study funded by the National Dairy Council itself rebealed that the high protein content of dairy actually leaches calcium from the body. After looking at thirty-four published studies in sixteen countries, researchers at Yale University found that the countries with the highest rates of osteoporosis--including the United States, Sweden, and Finland--were those in which people consumed the most meat, milk, and other animal foods."

We're meant to drink human milk as infants. Our bodies are not designed to intake dairy after that, especially not from other animals.

[Pyrian]

It takes a pretty severe calcium deficiency to cause osteoporosis, which is much more associated with a lack of bone stress, i.e., lack of exercise. That being said, if you're at all white/caucasian, then you're from a long ancestry of people who consumed dairy as a staple and have evolved to live well on such a diet.

[Faulty]

You lose about 90-95% of the enzyme which is used to digest dairy as an infant. Adults are not meant to eat dairy.

[Vmag]

We're also not meant to smoke, drink, consume the food combination and preparation methods that we use, drive, fly, communicate over vast distances, participate in wild, unusual, and rather interesting sexual acts with any number of materials... Now, I already don't drink or smoke, but nothing's stopping me from quitting everything else just cause we weren't designed for them.

[Faulty]

Last I checked, when you drive you don't attempt to digest things that your system isn't made for.

[Pyrian]

Last I checked, when you drive you don't attempt to digest things that your system isn't made for.Last I checked, driving kills far, far more people than lactose intolerance, and lactose intolerance is rare to non-existent in populations descended from goat herders, meaning that people like me ARE designed to digest it.

[Ninja Chocobo]

You more easily digest protein from plants than from animals, and how is that giving up on a diet? >_>

Because he would really really want to eat meat, and would be tempted all the sodding time to give up on his diet.

[Shadowbane]

Did another 7 mile run today. Definitely not feeling quite as spritely as yesterday. Still feel pretty good though.

[Pyrian]

Good! The second day is frequently the hardest. :smallcool:

[Shadowbane]

Actually, it's the third. First day I only did 3.5 miles though. Wanted to start off easy.

[snoopy13a]

Guys, guys. People seem to treat exercise regimens like religions; the reality is that most attempts to show significant differences between generally similar regimens have shown none whatsoever. Get some exercise, and keep it up. Don't worry too much about doing exactly this or exactly that, and don't believe anybody who tells you that your particular exercise is useless.

Right. If you just want weight loss and health benefits, walking for an hour every day is fine. Building up muscle and cardio is nice and all but low impact exercise is fine for those who simply want to be healthier. What too many people do is to go out running or heavy weight lifting and end up burning themselves out.

[Vmag]

Well our buddy here clearly doesn't have trouble running if he's doing three and a half one day a week and seven miles another. That's pretty awesome, really. When I do biweekly runs, it's usually three and a half one day and five miles another. I can't imagine having to run an extra two miles and still make the hour.

Seeing as we're of similar heights and weight, with only about seven years between us, it's clear he's already got me beat in fitness, at least.

[Tyrfin]

At your age you need to make sure that in addition to what you are currently doing, you need to make sure you get enough protein in your diet.

also, you need to add a cardiovascular component to your workout regimen. You need to get your heart rate up for at least twenty minutes 2-3 time a week.


...just my opinion, and there is a reason they're free

*grin*

[Faulty]

Last I checked, driving kills far, far more people than lactose intolerance, and lactose intolerance is rare to non-existent in populations descended from goat herders, meaning that people like me ARE designed to digest it.

I'm not talking about lactose intolerence. No adults can digest dairy healthfully. You're only meant to digest it as an infant. You just plain have less of the enzyme after you're an infant.


Because he would really really want to eat meat, and would be tempted all the sodding time to give up on his diet.

There's fake meat. >_>

[Shadowbane]

Well our buddy here clearly doesn't have trouble running if he's doing three and a half one day a week and seven miles another. That's pretty awesome, really. When I do biweekly runs, it's usually three and a half one day and five miles another. I can't imagine having to run an extra two miles and still make the hour.

Seeing as we're of similar heights and weight, with only about seven years between us, it's clear he's already got me beat in fitness, at least.

That would be my last girlfriend's "fault." She dragged me out on horrendously long runs that usually ended up with me feeling like was going to die. When she dumped me for being too unathletic, I started exercising a little more, and apparently it worked. :D

I feel good.

And a little silly that I was worrying. I just have to keep this up.

[Faulty]

When she dumped me for being too unathletic

Wow, that's harsh man. :smallconfused:

Glad you're doing well thus far.

[Shadowbane]

I'm quite happy now. I was upset at the time, but was rescued by about 18 young ladies.

It's my personality, I swear.

I'm kidding. One very nice young lady did rescue me and we are quite happy currently.

[soj]

Quoting Skinny Bitch here:

"Researchers at Harvard, Yale, Penn State and the National Institutes of Health have studied the effects of dairy intake on bones. Not one of these studies found dairy to be a deterrent to osteoporosis. On the contrary, a study funded by the National Dairy Council itself rebealed that the high protein content of dairy actually leaches calcium from the body. After looking at thirty-four published studies in sixteen countries, researchers at Yale University found that the countries with the highest rates of osteoporosis--including the United States, Sweden, and Finland--were those in which people consumed the most meat, milk, and other animal foods."

We're meant to drink human milk as infants. Our bodies are not designed to intake dairy after that, especially not from other animals.

You're mis-quoting her/him completely. Or she/he is, but the point remains that osteoporosis can be caused by EXCESSIVE amounts of calcium, and the study that found that wasn't really "conclusive" either way.
edit: Also, the thing you quoted kept referring to "dairy." Dairy is not a chemical. It cannot be analyzed as though it were. The ACTUAL study linked calcium from milk to increased chance of osteoporosis (though I recall it being solely related to estrogen levels and even not entirely conclusive).


You lose about 90-95% of the enzyme which is used to digest dairy as an infant. Adults are not meant to eat dairy.Competely untrue. Humans that DO NOT DIGEST LACTOSE lose their enzyme, HOWEVER, this only occurs in people of African descent. Caucasians and Asians may lose lactase if they do not consume lactose, but nothing even close to the tune of 90%.

Gym. Gym. I linked a wonderful beginner workout (http://newbie-fitness.blogspot.com/2007/01/stripped-5x5.html) and you should take advantage of it.

edit:

There's plenty of personal trainers that do home appointments as well, my mom is one of them. However, I was more stating that if you do go to a gym, spend the money on a PT as a lot of them do know what they're doing.

From my experiences with talking with them, I'd say that a general guideline is that if they're overweight or what they say sounds ridiculous, it's probably better to find someone else. You wouldn't want someone teaching you how to work on computers if they can't hook up a printer. Same principles apply.Definitely ask your mother. Though it's *possible* to build muscle without venturing into the gym the ultimate work required vs. benefit is negligible. My experience with people and personal trainers is that they try to pawn off complicated exercises that, even though they may work, over-complicate things and just end poorly. All you need from a personal trainer EVER is to show you how to properly do some very basic exercises (deadlifts, squats, bench presses, military presses, pull ups, rows, etc.) and where to do them. Maybe a spot on occasions if your gym doesn't have a fancy cage. That's it. No custom training regimens, no custom supplements--all you need to know is how to properly do stuff with good form.


I wasn't saying only run. Lifting weights isn't the only way to strength train and build muscle mass. That's all I was trying to get across. In fact, I dare say that bodyweight training is much more practical than bench presses and squats, even if the visual results aren't as outstanding.Practical in what sense? It's practical in the fact that you don't have to be in a gym to do it but if you had a barbel beside you there's no reason to skip past it and do three thousand crunches.


Guys, guys. People seem to treat exercise regimens like religions; the reality is that most attempts to show significant differences between generally similar regimens have shown none whatsoever. Get some exercise, and keep it up. Don't worry too much about doing exactly this or exactly that, and don't believe anybody who tells you that your particular exercise is useless.Yes, very similar exercise regimens produce very similar results. The OP wants to "build some muscle mass and keep fit." The gym is where he should go to do so. <1 hour every two days and more effective for him than his 7 mile runs that probably take twice as long.


You more easily digest protein from plants than from animals, and how is that giving up on a diet? >_>Even if that WERE true, what I meant was that following a low carb, healthy diet is difficult enough to begin with, but following a low carb high protein diet without meat? It's unnecessary and will likely only result in his giving up.


All that being said, if running works for you and you're comfortable being a really skinny dude, keep up with it. If, however, you want to build muscle or feel that your diet/exercise routine isn't working well enough, go to the gym.

[Renegade Paladin]

I'm not talking about lactose intolerence. No adults can digest dairy healthfully. You're only meant to digest it as an infant. You just plain have less of the enzyme after you're an infant.
Not strictly true; there is a percentage of adults that retains enough lactase to actually digest dairy. I happen to be one, and in fact most Caucasians do. Retention of lactase into adulthood varies greatly by ethnicity.

[Pyrian]

Just one last reply to Faulty:


I'm not talking about lactose intolerence.You should be. It's the only case where your claims have any merit.


No adults can digest dairy healthfully.That is a categorically false statement. The evidence against its accuracy are mountainous, as dairy is a staple in many parts of the world, only one of which is known for poor health, and many of which are known for excellent health.


You're only meant to digest it as an infant.Another categorically false statement. Most mammals (and lactose intolerant humans) stop producing lactase in adulthood. We have literally evolved to digest dairy products our entire lives, in distinct contrast to some of our closest relatives.


You just plain have less of the enzyme after you're an infant.When you're an infant, milk is fully 100% of your diet. Having those enzymes drop off in proportion to the amount of dairy in your diet is evidence against your position, not evidence for it.


There's fake meat. >_>I'd rather have tofu, honestly. I think vegetarians can only stand fake meat because they won't eat the real thing yet still crave it. 'Cause fake meat really is awful to nearly all the omnivores who try it.

[Jack Squat]

Definitely ask your mother. Though it's *possible* to build muscle without venturing into the gym the ultimate work required vs. benefit is negligible. My experience with people and personal trainers is that they try to pawn off complicated exercises that, even though they may work, over-complicate things and just end poorly. All you need from a personal trainer EVER is to show you how to properly do some very basic exercises (deadlifts, squats, bench presses, military presses, pull ups, rows, etc.) and where to do them. Maybe a spot on occasions if your gym doesn't have a fancy cage. That's it. No custom training regimens, no custom supplements--all you need to know is how to properly do stuff with good form.

Not having someone set up your regimen and not knowing completely how to go about doing so is how gym rats end up having chicken legs or are hunched over to the point they look like a gorilla walking upright. While most average people don't have this problem, it is still one that can be prevented by having at least one session with a PT, which is a negligible price compared to what some gyms are charging for memberships these days.


Practical in what sense? It's practical in the fact that you don't have to be in a gym to do it but if you had a barbel beside you there's no reason to skip past it and do three thousand crunches.

Practical in use. When you run, climb, jump, fight, surf, etc. you use multiple systems in your body, particularly your core. A lot of weight exercises are about isolation and don't work systems so much as smaller muscle groups; in fact, I'd say that if you have a barbel you need to use both it and do the crunches, along with a few other exercises.

If you want to do the research, a lot of martial arts and military training programs don't use weights, and none use them exclusively. Neither category is really stereotypically unfit or thin, so even just from casual observation there's got to be something to this whole bodyweight thing.

While weights may be more effective in building muscle mass, it's certainly not the only method; and depending on your goals, it's not always the best. If the OP's currently fine running, I don't think that he's too worried about looking ripped, and the more muscle part was more of a "it'd be nice" deal compared to him wanting to be fit. If it's not his main goal, there are probably better ways to go work out than doing flys and leg presses in a gym.

[gellerche]

I think most of the advice here, while meaning well, is excessive. I know a good deal about cardio and muscle tone - Last year I did the Ironman and ran a marathon in 3:08:47 (at different times, obviously). But this young man isn't trying to qualify for the Olympics, he's just trying to get fit. At that level, exercise and diet are supposed to be enjoyable. To that end:

- I train at the Y, and every year I see people go from low activity to beating their brains out. They last one or two months, and then I never see them again. Humans aren't idiots. If we can choose between doing something we hate and not doing it, eventually we won't do it. Point being, pick some form of exercise you like doing for 3-4 times a week, 1/2 to 1 hour at a time. There's running, biking, swimming, tennis, basketball, etc.

- One of the posts mentioned running at 4 because it's hottest. Why? You don't get fit by enduring agony. You get fit by exercising. Pick something(s) you like doing, and do them.

- I have the same concept with diet. Heavy on the fruits and vegetables, easy on the fats and sugars, add some lean meat and grains, and stop eating when I'm not hungry any more. It's not complicated, and for someone who just wants health, it doesn't have to be.

- And if I want ice cream or something that's bad for me, you know what I do? I EAT IT. But I have a small dish of it, and I savor it. If you've been good about what you ate that day, then have a reward. Our bodies are remarkably adaptive and durable - Yours certainly isn't going to break if you feed it some Cherry Garcia. (OK - I prefer the frozen yogurt, but the point is that if you eat something in a small amount, it doesn't really matter when balanced against everything else)

- Let me reemphasize. You have to ENJOY what you do and what you eat. This is not purgatory. We are intelligent creatures and recognize when we hate doing things, especially if that hateful thing is not necessary for our goal. Rationalization to stop doing that activity is next, and then you're back to square one.

[soj]

Not having someone set up your regimen and not knowing completely how to go about doing so is how gym rats end up having chicken legs or are hunched over to the point they look like a gorilla walking upright. While most average people don't have this problem, it is still one that can be prevented by having at least one session with a PT, which is a negligible price compared to what some gyms are charging for memberships these days....which I suggested they do if they have had no formal gym experience. One session. I linked an excellent starting regimen.



If you want to do the research, a lot of martial arts and military training programs don't use weights, and none use them exclusively. Neither category is really stereotypically unfit or thin, so even just from casual observation there's got to be something to this whole bodyweight thing.Many martial arts and military training are about taking people that are already fit and work out and teaching them various techniques and skills. Running and sit ups and the like are all involved, but they're there principally to keep up one's heart rate.


While weights may be more effective in building muscle mass, it's certainly not the only method; and depending on your goals, it's not always the best. Yes, but based on what the OP said (building muscle mass and staying fit) the gym is the best option. That isn't to say that there are other options that, should he stick to them, also work, but it's simply a comparison of efficiency.


If the OP's currently fine running, I don't think that he's too worried about looking ripped, and the more muscle part was more of a "it'd be nice" deal compared to him wanting to be fit. If it's not his main goal, there are probably better ways to go work out than doing flys and leg presses in a gym.
The OP asked how to get fit and build muscle mass and I told him. Whether or not he wants to take my advice is up to him.


- I train at the Y, and every year I see people go from low activity to beating their brains out. They last one or two months, and then I never see them again. Humans aren't idiots. If we can choose between doing something we hate and not doing it, eventually we won't do it. Point being, pick some form of exercise you like doing for 3-4 times a week, 1/2 to 1 hour at a time. There's running, biking, swimming, tennis, basketball, etc.I agree, which is why I think generally speaking, the gym is so much better than running. You can see results really quickly and they'll continue so long as you do. When I first started working out I was incredibly skeptical at first and found that I couldn't stick to running or swimming or tennis. The gym, however, was fantastic. It took less time than any of the other exercises and I not only saw better results, but faster results which has kept me motivated for lo these long years.

But yeah, gellerche is pretty correct (except don't worry too much about controlling natural fats, most are very good for you as long as they're not in excess).

[Pyrian]

Yes, but based on what the OP said (building muscle mass and staying fit) the gym is the best option.He also said he had no disposable income and no transportation. I took that as nixing the gym, too!


When I first started working out I was incredibly skeptical at first and found that I couldn't stick to running or swimming or tennis.Interesting. I find gym exercises in general and weight training in particular so mind-bogglingly dull that I cannot keep up a regimen for long. The only way I've ever been able to keep up any kind of strength training regimen is on the Wii Fit, which makes a sort of game of it, and even then I'd rather do something else, but I keep at it 'cause otherwise all my exercise is essentially cardio. I would far rather be moving around or playing a game then moving blocks up and down repeatedly.

So, YMMV. Doing something you're motivated to do is probably more important than doing thee most efficient exercise, 'cause it's not so efficient any more if you can't be bothered to actually do it...

[Totally Guy]

After the gym gave be the confidence to tear up their awards I've been having a much better time with Wii fit. The machine even pretends to care!:smalltongue:

It is a bit 1984 though...

"A man of your age should be able to touch his toes!" said the telescreen.

[Shadowbane]

I'm probably not going to do the gym. I think I'd have some problems with mind-bogglingly boring. As in, can't bring myself to do it.

My area is stunningly beautiful and the exact opposite of boring, so I'll keep my runs.

[Erloas]

Well it might not be the most practical workout, but its been working for me this week. We have a building at work thats about 120 ft tall, and for the last week I've had to be on the top of it about 15 times a day. And of course the lift broke a few times, and even with the lift the last 30-40 feet or so have to be walked anyway. I can tell you that a few days of that will really wear you out.


As for a gym, it really depends on where you are living. I got a year long gym membership and I got great use out of it in the winter and early spring, but since late spring and summer I haven't got much use out of it at all.
I know when I lived in Phoenix it was really nice to have a gym because it was cooled, because there was no way I was going to be doing a lot of exercise outdoors when it was 100+ outside and I didn't have the space to do anything inside.
And of course now it is just the opposite, summers are great for outside but winters are not.

Its important to keep up with it too, because its easy to go when you are in the habit but it is very easy to loose the habit. Its really easy to not start up again once you have stopped for a while. I know I'm having a hard time getting a workout in during the last few months because I'm doing just enough to not feel like working out but not really doing enough to really take the place of a normal workout.

[Pyrian]

When my family goes on cruises the strategy is that we can eat as much as we like but can never take the elevator. On a ship with 18 decks... :smallbiggrin:

[TRM]

Hmm... A lot of this is just reiteration of others' advice.

Anyway,

I vote:

Trade in your crunches for some more interesting and varied core exercises. Crunches are fine and dandy for six-pack abs, but they don't help out the other important core bits. I've enjoyed most of the ones here. (http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=486) Though if you're strapped (is this an actual expression?) for time, side bridge holds and core holds are very solid (heh) choices.

Make a plan. Set goals, take rest days, and log your prog. If you're not training for anything in particular, do a fun mix of biking, running, swimming, etc...

Consider signing up for a race (5k, sprint Tri, bike race, whatever,) if you have any interest in that sort of thing. It will give you something to train for and keep you on track.

Find a buddy. Motivation will probably be tough (though maybe you have no problem with this). A good solution is to find other people who will make you accountable for working out regularly. This is why classes and gyms gyms as in teams are so great; if you aren't interested (slash can't afford) those you can look for someone to run with a few times a week.

Remember, you don't have to go all focus-nazi on diets. You're a moderately (very?) healthy teenage male, and you don't need to flip out about your weight. Eat well (i.e: veggies, balance, don't scarf cookies all day), but relax and eat some oreos anyway. Small portions are good too.

And be willing to flaunt your new sexy body. >.> Not flaunt! not flaunt! I meant, Be comfortable and have fun with.

Yes. See, when you get rippling quads (can quads ripple?) and washboard abs, you should be comfortable enough to go shirtless, and wear slightly tighter bike shorts. PET PEEVE TANGENT! People who wear gym shorts over running tights. No! Wrong! Be bold! Don't be a jackss about it though, of course.

[soj]

He also said he had no disposable income and no transportation. I took that as nixing the gym, too!Then he isn't really asking much. "In what ways can I get fit assuming I don't have to pay for anything or go anywhere?"
Obviously he doesn't need any of us to tell him that running and eating healthily can manage weight.


So, YMMV. Doing something you're motivated to do is probably more important than doing thee most efficient exercise, 'cause it's not so efficient any more if you can't be bothered to actually do it...I just don't find running very motivational. There's always the initial thrill of doing something for your body and your health, but it's so rare to see any tangible improvement running that it becomes hugely demoralizing. At least with weight lifting, you can quickly see tangible benefits for your actions.


My point is that if anyone is at all serious about improving their body, health and standard of living, the gym is the ultimate tool for the job. It builds muscle, burns many calories and enhances appearance. It is incredibly effective and does NOT require major amounts of time to pay off. The gym has cardiovascular stations, body-weight training stations and expensive machines/free-weights. It is cheap and accessible. If you are seriously committed to losing weight, graining muscle or simply improving physically, the gym is the place to be. If he doesn't want to go to the gym, fine, it's his decision, but I doubt he planned on taking any advice in this thread seriously. It was more like "I'm a great musician and I'm going to run a lot, is this awesome? y/n" rather than "I'm legitimately concerned about the future of my health and I seek advice that will positively impact my life."

Well, I'll stop with the gym stuff now, because you're clearly not interested. If someone else is, however, don't be afraid to ask questions.

First of all, people will suggest you work out your "core." What they really mean to say is that "I have no idea what I'm talking about and probably just read this in a women's fitness magazine." It's a worthless term that means very little and represents even less. When it comes to cardio, the only important thing is intensity. "If your goal is fat loss (as opposed to general cardiovascular health), 3 hours running slowly on a treadmill will not help you as much as 20 minutes of high intensity interval training doing sprints on a track."

Better yet, forget everything you know about getting healthy and simply read this. (http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_hierarchy_of_fat_loss)

[HellfireLover]

First of all, people will suggest you work out your "core." What they really mean to say is that "I have no idea what I'm talking about and probably just read this in a women's fitness magazine." It's a worthless term that means very little and represents even less.

Got to take issue with this. When most gym bunnies talk about their core, they're talking about their core muscles, which is definitely not a worthless term, as you put it. The core muscles are very important for improving posture and helping minimize the risk of lower back pain, which is a real risk for anyone working out on weights without being shown proper form - in short, most of the people in the gym using the free weights as an addition to their fitness routine. Strengthening the abs, obliques and glutes will make you look better (no more slouching!) and give a good basis for strengthening other muscle groups, since you will rely on your back, hips and stomach muscles during most exercises.

I found Iyengar yoga an excellent way to keep core muscles in condition, with the added bonus that it will also improve balance and breathing. However, it isn't for everyone, much the same as gym work. I have to agree that I find running both painful and boring; I get my dose of cardio from rowing and kickboxing. :smalltongue:

[Set]

Books on tape (which you can rent for free from your public library, in most towns) make running tolerable, otherwise it bores the crap out of me. If your town has nature trails, which are common up here in the northeast, they can be much more scenic than trying to dodge traffic and weave through pedestrians on the sidewalks. Nothing is more mind-numbing than running on a circular track, indoor or outdoor. If you have a vivid imagination, or those books on tape, it's a survivable experience, but I wouldn't exactly give it a ringing endorsement...

Swimming, if you have access to a pool, lake or pond, works way better for me. I could spend the whole day in the water. If said pool, lake or pond requires a bit of a walk or bike ride to get to, so much the better.

You can do all sorts of diets. Figure out what works for you. If it leaves you hungry, it's no good. I've seen a roommate drop 60 lbs in six months on the Atkins diet, and was flabbergasted to watch him pack away the cheese-draped sausages and bacon-wrapped steaks for dinner, and, when I was diagnosed diabetic, also dropped from 270 to 185 in about 9 months (and haven't had a hint of diabetes since), through a psychotic and horribly unsafe use of calorie restriction. If I found myself in that situation again, I think Atkins sounds a lot more pleasant than my last diet. :)

I've seen vegetarian diets work, I've seen fat-free diets work, I've seen all-meat & cheese no-carb diets work. There's no one holy grail, other than to eat sensibly, avoid junk food and get some regular exercise. Anything that looks like a quick fix, like those stupid pills, isn't going to help you keep weight off for life, it's only going to trap you in a grossly unhealthy cycle of annual weight gain and weight loss that's many times worse for your body (and especially your heart) *and* your self-esteem than just being somewhat overweight. That just sets a body (and a psyche) up for failure, and for excusing failure, on a repetitive basis that might as well be a death-spiral.

In the end, there's really no such thing as a diet, if you're doing it right. There's just a *choice* to eat sensibly and stay in shape. Torturing yourself every spring to get in shape for the summer, and then backsliding during the fall/winter season is a recipe for misery and beating yourself up every year for 'failing' again. If you pig out on Thanksgiving, that isn't an excuse to go nuts until Christmas, 'since I'm just gonna pig out then anyway, so I might as well go off my diet.' If you *know* that you are gonna pig out on Thanksgiving, that still isn't an excuse to start pigging out a month ahead of time 'because I'm just gonna wreck my diet on Thanksgiving anyway.' I've watched too many diets (or attempts to stop smoking or drinking, among my friends) utterly fail because someone was 'waiting' for 'the right time' to stop something. "I can't stop smoking now, I'll just smoke again on my vacation." "I can't stop drinking now, New Year's is only a month away!"

Excuses. We got a million of 'em. And none of them are worth surrendering control of your life.

[soj]

Got to take issue with this. When most gym bunnies talk about their core, they're talking about their core muscles, which is definitely not a worthless term, as you put it. The core muscles ... etcYes, "core muscles" are important, but their development is almost entirely secondary. Exercises made to "target core muscles" are worthless, and, as such, the term has been so incredibly distorted that it's best just to forget about it altogether. If someone talks about their "core", chances are good that their advice is largely inconsequential.

Though it is true that "core muscles" are indeed useful, it's a pretty obvious statement to begin with. I suppose I should have said "exercises specifically dealt to target your core are worthless".

[Faulty]

Not strictly true; there is a percentage of adults that retains enough lactase to actually digest dairy. I happen to be one, and in fact most Caucasians do. Retention of lactase into adulthood varies greatly by ethnicity.

Yeah, Africans who consume lots of dairy fare worse than Europeans. Nonetheless, it's not very good for your bones, and is very fattening.

[TRM]

Yes, "core muscles" are important, but their development is almost entirely secondary. Exercises made to "target core muscles" are worthless, and, as such, the term has been so incredibly distorted that it's best just to forget about it altogether. If someone talks about their "core", chances are good that their advice is largely inconsequential.

Though it is true that "core muscles" are indeed useful, it's a pretty obvious statement to begin with. I suppose I should have said "exercises specifically dealt to target your core are worthless".
No.

Let me see if I understand, or if I'm just strawmanning:

We could skip bicep lifts, because our biceps will develop naturally through everyday life and picking up the weights used in our other exercises.

As with any muscle, the best way to strengthen your core (which, yes, I know is a collection of muscles, thank you very much), barring a miracle pill, is to work it. The most efficient way to work the core is do exercises that work it a lot; a minute of core holds is going to do more to strengthen your core than is a minute of other exercises that "develop it secondarily". (Yeah, that wasn't a direct quote, but it adds more punch to have the little quote marks.)


If someone talks about their "core", chances are good that their advice is largely inconsequential.
Yeah, clearly. Because sports medicine is such a clear cut field that you can offhandedly disregard a whole group, especially if that group holds the majority opinion.


My point is that if anyone is at all serious about improving their body, health and standard of living, the gym is the ultimate tool for the job. It builds muscle, burns many calories and enhances appearance. It is incredibly effective and does NOT require major amounts of time to pay off. The gym has cardiovascular stations, body-weight training stations and expensive machines/free-weights. It is cheap and accessible. If you are seriously committed to losing weight, graining muscle or simply improving physically, the gym is the place to be. If he doesn't want to go to the gym, fine, it's his decision, but I doubt he planned on taking any advice in this thread seriously. It was more like "I'm a great musician and I'm going to run a lot, is this awesome? y/n" rather than "I'm legitimately concerned about the future of my health and I seek advice that will positively impact my life."

The Gym is not an exercise or a fitness plan. Please stop treating it as such. Half the time, all that people do at the Gym is run on a treadmill or walk on those fun machines with handles. The Gym is nice because it has everything collected into one spot, usually. This doesn't make it magically better at getting you fit. I've been to the Gym like three times in my life, but free weights at home, running (oh noes!), crew, core workouts (oh noes!), biking, and swimming have all made me really fit and very healthy. (I know that personal anecdotes aren't really stunning evidence in a debate, I'm not a stunning debater.)

I also take offense at your comment that you can't get results from running. I'm going to assume that professional runners don't do their working out at the Gym pumping weights all day. If all you do is jog around for a while every day, sure, you won't notice improvement. If you instead time your miles, race occasionally (optional), and keep track of your distances, then you will indeed notice an improvement. Unless you have a genetic defect that prevents you from ever getting better at running; then you have my sympathy.

[soj]

No.

Let me see if I understand, or if I'm just strawmanning:

We could skip bicep lifts, because our biceps will develop naturally through everyday life and picking up the weights used in our other exercises. Well, if the core is so important,then, according to you, it will develop naturally as well.
Deadlifts.
Squats.
Bench presses.
Military Presses.
Pull ups.
Bent over rows.


As with any muscle, the best way to strengthen your core (which, yes, I know is a collection of muscles, thank you very much), barring a miracle pill, is to work it. The most efficient way to work the core is do exercises that work it a lot; a minute of core holds is going to do more to strengthen your core than is a minute of other exercises that "develop it secondarily". (Yeah, that wasn't a direct quote, but it adds more punch to have the little quote marks.) No, see above.



Yeah, clearly. Because sports medicine is such a clear cut field that you can offhandedly disregard a whole group, especially if that group holds the majority opinion.Yeah, this is why most fitness advice is moot. People trick themselves into thinking that every little tidbit of information about health is from experts and entirely correct. Most exercises that were made for "core strength" are terrible. Most claims that building "core strength" with a stupid bosu ball are completely dubious. If you want to continue to believe that omitting arm and leg workouts are completely cool and better for you, then continue to do so, but don't pass on that information.



The Gym is not an exercise or a fitness plan. Please stop treating it as such. Half the time, all that people do at the Gym is run on a treadmill or walk on those fun machines with handles. The Gym is nice because it has everything collected into one spot, usually. This doesn't make it magically better at getting you fit. I've been to the Gym like three times in my life, but free weights at home, running (oh noes!), crew, core workouts (oh noes!), biking, and swimming have all made me really fit and very healthy. (I know that personal anecdotes aren't really stunning evidence in a debate, I'm not a stunning debater.)So, because some people can't focus, get a regimen and leave the gym it means the gym is a complete waste of time? Still, you miss my point. I'm not saying that the gym is a necessity, I'm saying that doing exercises that require lifting barbells/dumbbells is an amazing catalyst for success and that a lot of people that don't know what they're talking about will tell you to ignore lifting.


I also take offense at your comment that you can't get results from running.I never said that.


I'm going to assume that professional runners don't do their working out at the Gym pumping weights all day. If all you do is jog around for a while every day, sure, you won't notice improvement. If you instead time your miles, race occasionally (optional), and keep track of your distances, then you will indeed notice an improvement. Unless you have a genetic defect that prevents you from ever getting better at running; then you have my sympathy.And if you devoted the same amount of time to lifting you'd be significantly happier with your results.

[Erloas]

So, because some people can't focus, get a regimen and leave the gym it means the gym is a complete waste of time? Still, you miss my point. I'm not saying that the gym is a necessity, I'm saying that doing exercises that require lifting barbells/dumbbells is an amazing catalyst for success and that a lot of people that don't know what they're talking about will tell you to ignore lifting.

I think what is being said is that "going to the gym" isn't by itself a routine or in any way will directly lead to getting in better shape. What you do at a gym can get you in better shape, but just going to the gym without a plan and without a set of exercises to do isn't really going to be doing much for you.
A gym is a place where you do a fitness routine, but going to one does not do anything directly.



As for the core muscles, I have yet to read anything about fitness that says to not worry about them and that they will take care of themselves. If you are doing certain activities, some of them are much better to strengthen the core then others and you might not have to do any core specific exercises. However a lot of the things people do (or don't do) will necessitate some core specific training.

There are a lot of exercises, especially with machines (the mainstay of gyms), that target very specific muscles and do very little to work the secondary muscles. In fact a lot of lifts specifically do that to make a muscle group really stand out, usually in the arms. You can get a very massive upper body and still have a relatively weak core. It won't make much of a difference so long as what you are lifting is how you have been training, but as soon as you go to do other things you are setting yourself up to be hurt. Your arms/shoulders might be able to lift twice as much as your core can properly support and balance and thats an easy way to strain or pull something.

Martial arts are especially dependent on core muscles because so much of the balance and power from those moves comes from the core muscles and not from the arms/legs. Someone with a strong core will be able to punch harder and many more times then someone with a stronger arm but weaker core.
Of course its not just martial arts, but you can find a lot more information on that. Any full body activity is going to benefit greatly from a strong set of core muscles. And you are going to get that faster by working those muscles directly then to just leave it as a secondary effect of other lifts you are doing.
Of course not all lifts are created equally, you can have 3-4 different types of lifts that all focus on the same major muscle group and some will have a lot more impact on the secondary muscles and core muscles then others.
Some of that is just a case of knowing which lifts work the core muscles as well rather then the ones that are very targeted. But knowing which lifts those are and why you would do them over another lift for the same primary muscle comes from a direct understanding and awareness of the fact that the core muscles are as important as they are.

[TRM]

Well, if the core is so important,then, according to you, it will develop naturally as well.
Deadlifts.
Squats.
Bench presses.
Military Presses.
Pull ups.
Bent over rows.

No. That's according to you. I don't believe that the core will "develop naturally" to a satisfactory state. This is why I was bringing up bicep curls, in a rephrasing of what I perceived to be your point. If you don't target the biceps, they won't get stronger. If you don't target the core, it won't get stronger. Incidental strengthening isn't good enough.



No, see above.

Above where? I'm saying that your squats won't strengthen the core as effectively or as much as my side bridges. I don't understand how something not designed specifically for the core can be more effective than something that is—but I said all this already.



Yeah, this is why most fitness advice is moot. People trick themselves into thinking that every little tidbit of information about health is from experts and entirely correct. Most exercises that were made for "core strength" are terrible. Most claims that building "core strength" with a stupid bosu ball are completely dubious. If you want to continue to believe that omitting arm and leg workouts are completely cool and better for you, then continue to do so, but don't pass on that information.

Not to become accusing, but you are the one demanding that we skip out on certain exercises. Please find a quote of mine that suggests we avoid arm and leg exercises. What I'm arguing for is the inclusion of core work, rather than skipping it. Everywhere I look agrees with me: that the core is an essential muscle group that should be strengthened. This isn't a "little tidbit", it's common wisdom.

"Most exercises"? I think Pilates (no offense meant to actual Pilates, but the word Pilates is what comes to mind when I imagine dumb core exercises) is silly too. I think that my core holds, crunches, oblique crunches, penguins, etc., actually provide results. I have a link to a core exercise circuit that I've enjoyed and found useful; it is in my first post.



So, because some people can't focus, get a regimen and leave the gym it means the gym is a complete waste of time? Still, you miss my point. I'm not saying that the gym is a necessity, I'm saying that doing exercises that require lifting barbells/dumbbells is an amazing catalyst for success and that a lot of people that don't know what they're talking about will tell you to ignore lifting.


I think what is being said is that "going to the gym" isn't by itself a routine or in any way will directly lead to getting in better shape. What you do at a gym can get you in better shape, but just going to the gym without a plan and without a set of exercises to do isn't really going to be doing much for you.
A gym is a place where you do a fitness routine, but going to one does not do anything directly.

Thank you. :smallsmile: Yes. But now I understand that soj is advocating for weight lifting, and is just calling it the Gym.



I never said that.

Hmm. see below.


I agree, which is why I think generally speaking, the gym is so much better than running. You can see results really quickly and they'll continue so long as you do.
I understood this to mean that running didn't give you results. Implication, you see. Perhaps I took it the wrong way?


And if you devoted the same amount of time to lifting you'd be significantly happier with your results.
They aren't mutually exclusive; I am opposed to the idea that weight lifting (or, the Gym) is the only exercise worth doing. I'm not condemning weight lifting. Weight lifting is fun. Weight lifting is beneficial. It's not really healthy to lift a lot every day, but you can do cardio more frequently. Cardio is good for you in lots of ways too (weight loss, heart and lung capacity, off the top of my head). Maybe you can get a cardio workout from weight lifting, but the typical way to lift doesn't maintain an elevated heart rate and level of oxygen consumption for extended periods of time (unless you lift continuously for 20+ minutes without breaks).

[Vmag]

They just had to add politics to fitness. Well, "in before the lobbyists", I suppose.

[Pyrian]

Well, "in before the lobbyists", I suppose.I dunno. I'm already suspicious that two posters are plants paid to advocate a given position. :smallwink: :smalltongue:

[soj]

No. That's according to you. I don't believe that the core will "develop naturally" to a satisfactory state. This is why I was bringing up bicep curls, in a rephrasing of what I perceived to be your point. If you don't target the biceps, they won't get stronger. If you don't target the core, it won't get stronger. Incidental strengthening isn't good enough.The exercises I showed target not only core muscles but arms and legs. They are fantastic full-body exercises that strengthen most important muscles in the body if done correctly.


Above where? I'm saying that your squats won't strengthen the core as effectively or as much as my side bridges. I don't understand how something not designed specifically for the core can be more effective than something that is—but I said all this already.The squats won't target the obliques as well as side bridges, but it will certainly target most other muscles just as well, if not better than side bridges, with a leg workout to boot!



Not to become accusing, but you are the one demanding that we skip out on certain exercises. Please find a quote of mine that suggests we avoid arm and leg exercises. What I'm arguing for is the inclusion of core work, rather than skipping it. Everywhere I look agrees with me: that the core is an essential muscle group that should be strengthened. This isn't a "little tidbit", it's common wisdom. I'm not arguing for skipping out on exercises completely, I'm arguing that several full-body workout exercises are much more efficient for what he plans to do and work amazingly well for people that necessarily aren't fit enough to already do overtly complicated "core exercises" with bosu balls.


"Most exercises"? I think Pilates (no offense meant to actual Pilates, but the word Pilates is what comes to mind when I imagine dumb core exercises) is silly too. I think that my core holds, crunches, oblique crunches, penguins, etc., actually provide results. I have a link to a core exercise circuit that I've enjoyed and found useful; it is in my first post.The issue with a good set of core exercises, though, is that it requires you to be already in excellent health to perform things efficiently. It is my opinion that people trying simply to get fit should avoid the complexities of them entirely and stick to more simple exercises (deadlifts, squats, etc.) that they can do with free weights.



Thank you. :smallsmile: Yes. But now I understand that soj is advocating for weight lifting, and is just calling it the Gym.Yes, this is entirely introductory so I assume him to have no current lifting equipment.


I understood this to mean that running didn't give you results. Implication, you see. Perhaps I took it the wrong way?I was comparing the result speed of both exercises. You see results faster going to the gym. You still see results with running (after all, no one would do it if you didn't) but they're less tangible and more difficult to quantify, thus, are less motivational.


They aren't mutually exclusive; I am opposed to the idea that weight lifting (or, the Gym) is the only exercise worth doing. I'm not condemning weight lifting. Weight lifting is fun. Weight lifting is beneficial. It's not really healthy to lift a lot every day, but you can do cardio more frequently. Cardio is good for you in lots of ways too (weight loss, heart and lung capacity, off the top of my head). Maybe you can get a cardio workout from weight lifting, but the typical way to lift doesn't maintain an elevated heart rate and level of oxygen consumption for extended periods of time (unless you lift continuously for 20+ minutes without breaks).Well, lifting can be more accurately compared to high intensity interval training, which, from a cardio standpoint is much, much better than simple endurance running. Additionally, I am not saying that lifting is the only thing worth doing. I'm simply saying that for fat loss, muscle gain and general strength, it's the most efficient means to an end. If I had to get someone fit who only had ~2-2.5 hours a week to spend, I'd tell them to lift. However, garnishing lifting with cardio is certainly not a bad decision, provided that you're not losing weight at a ridiculously unhealthy pace (though increase in muscle mass from lifting should balance it out). Whether you have a lot of time to devote to fitness or just a little, weight lifting should be on your schedule somewhere. That isn't to say that everything else is useless, it's simply not as efficient.

[TRM]

The exercises I showed target not only core muscles but arms and legs. They are fantastic full-body exercises that strengthen most important muscles in the body if done correctly.

Squats are not a full-body workout. They do target multiple muscle groups (the quads, lower back, and I believe buttocks as well), but are far, far, far from working your entire body. Your exercise list was fantastic, they all work multiple groups, but are not that great for your core. I'm not saying you shouldn't do them (I do most of them in my regular upper body circuit), but I am saying they are not what you need for your core. A bench press does barely, if anything, more for your core than does standing up normally.


The issue with a good set of core exercises, though, is that it requires you to be already in excellent health to perform things efficiently. It is my opinion that people trying simply to get fit should avoid the complexities of them entirely and stick to more simple exercises (deadlifts, squats, etc.) that they can do with free weights.

What? It is not easier to pick up a set of weights and start lifting away than it is to grab a nice spot of ground and start doing some crunches. It's actually considerably easier. This is of course just for core. I would not recommend doing crunches to strengthen your arms; it won't work.


I'm not arguing for skipping out on exercises completely, I'm arguing that several full-body workout exercises are much more efficient for what he plans to do and work amazingly well for people that necessarily aren't fit enough to already do overtly complicated "core exercises" with bosu balls.

You are. You said that exercises specifically for the core are a waste of time. This would imply that they should be skipped completely. I disagree. It's all been said before. I consider core exercises an important part of any workout routine. I've given my reasons, so now I'm just saying them over and over, which is useless and a bore for other posters. So, unless something new comes up, I'ma drop out of this discussion. :)

But, one last jab, you do understand that not all "core exercises" are overly complicated and convoluted?


I was comparing the result speed of both exercises. You see results faster going to the gym. You still see results with running (after all, no one would do it if you didn't) but they're less tangible and more difficult to quantify, thus, are less motivational.

Motivation is a personal thing. You can be just as motivated to run as you can be to lift weights. I don't disagree, though, that lifting gives you more visible results (i.e: bigger muscles).


I dunno. I'm already suspicious that two posters are plants paid to advocate a given position.
I don't know if you're talking about me, but I should say that if I were getting paid to post here I would be the happiest man in the world. :smalltongue: Exaggeration, duh.


Well, lifting can be more accurately compared to high intensity interval training, which, from a cardio standpoint is much, much better than simple endurance running.
Maybe I'm just being obtuse, but I can't wrap my head around the idea that an anaerobic activity is better for your aerobic capacity than an aerobic activity. Do you have any links to articles that I could look at? Or maybe just explain it more simply.

[soj]

Squats are not a full-body workout. They do target multiple muscle groups (the quads, lower back, and I believe buttocks as well), but are far, far, far from working your entire body. Your exercise list was fantastic, they all work multiple groups, but are not that great for your core. I'm not saying you shouldn't do them (I do most of them in my regular upper body circuit), but I am saying they are not what you need for your core. A bench press does barely, if anything, more for your core than does standing up normally.The entirety of the workout targets almost all major muscle groups. Obviously squats aren't full body. Are any exercises full body?



What? It is not easier to pick up a set of weights and start lifting away than it is to grab a nice spot of ground and start doing some crunches. It's actually considerably easier. This is of course just for core. I would not recommend doing crunches to strengthen your arms; it won't work.The side bridges you were talking about would absolutely suck if the guy trying to complete them was already out of shape/obese. Simply going to the gym and starting a 5x5 would be much easier.



You are. You said that exercises specifically for the core are a waste of time. This would imply that they should be skipped completely. I disagree. It's all been said before. I consider core exercises an important part of any workout routine. I've given my reasons, so now I'm just saying them over and over, which is useless and a bore for other posters. So, unless something new comes up, I'ma drop out of this discussion. :)I think it's a waste of time comparatively. If you're a professional athlete and you know you need strong core muscle, you don't need my help. If you're just some dude that wants to get fit, ignore "core workouts" and focus on simple yet efficient workouts. The core muscles are important, but most of them are worked in the routine I linked anyways.


But, one last jab, you do understand that not all "core exercises" are overly complicated and convoluted?True, and the simple ones (sit ups, dips, pull ups, etc.) work their ways into many great gym routines. No one specifically ignores weights and does these things though.



Motivation is a personal thing. You can be just as motivated to run as you can be to lift weights. I don't disagree, though, that lifting gives you more visible results (i.e: bigger muscles).Yes, but arguing this is like arguing that there are people that like rain more than sunshine. Everyone can accept it, and it doesn't really mean much to anyone, but weathermen will still call out sunny days by saying "it's going to be a beautiful day today!"


Maybe I'm just being obtuse, but I can't wrap my head around the idea that an anaerobic activity is better for your aerobic capacity than an aerobic activity. Do you have any links to articles that I could look at? Or maybe just explain it more simply.I was comparing the two in terms of heart rate in that there are periods of great heart rate increases followed by rest times. Though, breathing is super important to lifting anyways, as your muscles need oxygen to produce energy.

[Jack Squat]

The entirety of the workout targets almost all major muscle groups. Obviously squats aren't full body. Are any exercises full body?

Squat Thrusts, Bear Crawls, and "8 count Body Builders" (I heard a simpler name for these, but can't remember what it is; basically you crouch, thrust legs into push-up position, do a pushup, spread feet and bring them back together, then return to crouching position and then to standing, repeat) are a few exercises that work about as full body as you can get.



The side bridges you were talking about would absolutely suck if the guy trying to complete them was already out of shape/obese. Simply going to the gym and starting a 5x5 would be much easier.

The object of getting fit isn't doing what's easier. If you need to take a break because you can't do a full set of something, then that's a good thing. It means you now have a small goal to reach.



I think it's a waste of time comparatively. If you're a professional athlete and you know you need strong core muscle, you don't need my help. If you're just some dude that wants to get fit, ignore "core workouts" and focus on simple yet efficient workouts. The core muscles are important, but most of them are worked in the routine I linked anyways.

Why would you leave muscle groups out if you're trying to be just generally fit?


True, and the simple ones (sit ups, dips, pull ups, etc.) work their ways into many great gym routines. No one specifically ignores weights and does these things though.

Sure people do. As an example, I don't see many parkour exercises that involve weights...in fact, I can't think of one off the top of my head (though I suppose kettlebells wouldn't be out of place). And as has been brought up here, it's very possible to keep fit to military standards without the use of weights.

[Wind d8/d12]

Oh, Uhm....drink unsweetened iced tea and black coffee but make sure you drink lots of water too. You'll ((can say pee?)) Urinate a lot of the weight away. The long term affects of too much caffeine point to using moderation and common sense. Energy drinks are GREAT buuuut they don't really help with weight loss and compared with water they don't measure up.
Unsweetened ice tea might be YUCK at first but after or during a workout a tall glass of iced tea feels like a million bucks when it washes down a thirsty throat.

In general if you don't know whats in a beverage, you'd better just go back to water. Not everyone knows what Taurine and L-Cartinine (sp?) do to them so find out and think before you drink! Ginseng etc. are well and good placebos, usually all they boil down to are sugar and caffeine with an off-putting taste to make you believe you just ingested something that will make you more alert (thus doing so, natch.)

[Wind d8/d12]

And as has been brought up here, it's very possible to keep fit to military standards without the use of weights.
Google "Working out without Weights" for a good book by a former military or police officer who turned this into a science. And Parkour isn't even close to a standard that any normal human being should be compared to. If I tried an Aerial I'd put out my back, dislocate a shoulder, break my neck, and someone would shoot me just for trying.

[Jack Squat]

Google "Working out without Weights" for a good book by a former military or police officer who turned this into a science.

I've already brought up "The Navy SEAL workout", FitDeck, and TRX which do the same thing; all developed by former military.


And Parkour isn't even close to a standard that any normal human being should be compared to. If I tried an Aerial I'd put out my back, dislocate a shoulder, break my neck, and someone would shoot me just for trying.

Hence why I brought up that they don't use weights in their workout/training routines.

[Shadowbane]

Phew. Took a break from running on Thursday and Friday, and today did a ten mile run. A little painful, but I still feel pretty good. :D

And I'm actually proud of myself for that. I didn't think I could manage ten miles in one go.

[Vmag]

Dang, ten miles. I'll be honest, that'd probably take me a couple of hours, if I was just doing it on my own. How long did that take you?

[Shadowbane]

1:27:52

One hour, twenty-seven minutes, fifty-two seconds.

[TRM]

1:27:52

One hour, twenty-seven minutes, fifty-two seconds.
I'm impressed. Beating out 10 miles at a 9 minute mile pace after an alleged 2 weeks of training is phenomenal.

[Shadowbane]

Thank you. I feel absolutely exhausted though.

[Felixaar]

OP, sound's like you're doing fine to me, though I would probably reccomend a few arm and leg excercises - some weights, especially, would be good. You might also consider checking out a local gym.

Good luck with your music.

[Elminster1]

I run 40 minutes sessions, 4 times a week on a treadmill at my local college. Running is awesome for burning fat/calories. It's also a great way to build stamina as well. Aside from swimming, running really is one of the best ways to lose fat.

[Shadowbane]

Well, I did another 10-mile today. Didn't feel as bad as the last time. In fact, I feel pretty good.

Probably won't tomorrow, though. :smallsigh: