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shadow_archmagi
2009-07-20, 07:59 PM
I'm in a bunch of games at once right now, and I've noticed that they all vary quite a bit in DMing style.

So, playgrounders, how do you deal with the fact that *one* dm when he says "the cave is dark, forboding, and the stories say that no one has ever emerged alive!" actually means "This is going to kill you all and you should be paranoid. It'd probably be best to hang around outside scouting the area and setting up a lasting camp and buying obscene amounts of precautions first" and another DM means "I put some effort into making this one flavorful. Proceed in without caution and enjoy the ride! Really, I'm eager to get started with this and if you delay I'll be unhappy"

Jack_Simth
2009-07-20, 08:02 PM
I'm in a bunch of games at once right now, and I've noticed that they all vary quite a bit in DMing style.

So, playgrounders, how do you deal with the fact that *one* dm when he says "the cave is dark, forboding, and the stories say that no one has ever emerged alive!" actually means "This is going to kill you all and you should be paranoid. It'd probably be best to hang around outside scouting the area and setting up a lasting camp and buying obscene amounts of precautions first" and another DM means "I put some effort into making this one flavorful. Proceed in without caution and enjoy the ride! Really, I'm eager to get started with this and if you delay I'll be unhappy"

Same way you learn to deal with how one DM treats a high diplomacy as "he does what you want" while another renders diplomacy utterly useless because "he's unwilling to even listen to you" so the roll is completely ineffective.

You learn your DM's habits, and adapt.

Flickerdart
2009-07-20, 08:04 PM
Augury/Contact Other Plane. "Are we going to suffer horrific fates if we proceed into this cave recklessly?"

Xefas
2009-07-20, 08:10 PM
Part of why I'm always the DM is this kind of confusion.

Whenever I make an attempt at playing outside of my usual group, it usually ends with me not being able to do much of anything because of a slew of unnecessary and mostly nonsensical house rules that I wasn't told about, and then I die miserably to some kind of weird in-joke that the entire group understands but won't bother to explain to me.

Example. I made an Artificer focusing on buffing items to beef up the other party members and let them have the glory. Except they didn't mention to me that they have this whole weird thing about stacking magical benefits, so I wasn't actually able to buff anyone. At all. Oh, and Use Magic Device is different. And items with charges are different. So no, I can't use my one offensive wand.

DM: "The gateway ahead of you is shimmering."
Me: "I cast Detect Magic"
DM: *raise eyebrow* "Err...I guess you don't really see anything magical?"
Me: "Okay, I walk in."
DM: "WHAT?!"
Group: "Aw mans, the bees! The bees kill you."
DM and Group: *laughter*
Me: "What?"
DM and Group: "Oh, c'mon. The gateway was -shimmering-. Eh? eh?"
Me: "What?"
DM and Group" "Ah, nevermind. Start rolling up your next character while we finish this session."
Me: "What?"

This is not an isolated incident.

Tiki Snakes
2009-07-20, 08:18 PM
I keep a 'Mental Scale of Evil'. In general terms Ranging from 0 to Jim. (Disclaimer - All DM's below can be enjoyed thoroughly, some just require a different mind-set.)

Jim alternates between claiming to be Evil and claiming he's unfairly maligned. Actual TPK's are rare, but the chances of your character/party actually gaining wealth, renown, or success of any kind are next to nothing. Approach everything as a potential danger. When feeling the need to clean, do not 'Jump into the Bath'; Run yourself a nice warm bath, test the temperature, and climb in with relief.

Check the Ceiling, use cover, expect failure. Roll a character who is perverse enough to continue following plot-hooks rather than taking the obvious next step of quitting the adventure to open a shop.

Andy claims to be an Evil DM, but due to being such a thoroughly nice chap everyone will forget this. In general, paranoia is expected in the sense of plot related things and playing PC's against each other rather than everything in the universe being out to get you. Caution levels depend on how Booping Crazy the players are.
HOWEVER, do not rely on DM pointing out overly obvious bad ideas, second guess every npc (and often player)'s motivation, and be careful when using ranged attacks, because he has signature critical-miss-rules that he uses with glee.
(People have lost limbs. I personally set Santa on Fire, if only a little bit.)
If you only have a lighter to see by, make sure you can't smell gas. You'll maybe live either way, but get to keep your eyebrows and pride.

'Evil Simon' claims to be very Evil, but is a wargamer by nature. Respects cunning plans, prefers to hoist people by their own idiocy. Approach campaign with a keen eye, and take reasonable IC precautions.

Bob; Does not claim to be Evil, unlikely to play PC's against each other, and forgiving of Idiots. Will probably allow PC's to screw themselves over if suitably stupid, and will gleefully set old-school traps, but is generally sporting and will include Clues.

Phillip; Mostly Harmless. Completely Nuts. Player Characters are probably safe, but combat may well be varied and...interesting. Expect Weasels, Rats, and anthropomorphised or planar-travelling versions of the above. Or Two-Headed split-personality Vampire-Rat-Men. Don't expect to understand what's going on. May indulge in Railroading. Also, is nuts. Did I mention, Phil is a little odd? He's a bit odd.

In general, I've found that DM style is, though flavoured by a DM's game of choice, and earliest games played, largely independant of the Game they are Running.

For example, apparently Andy was a Paranoia dm once. He managed to keep players guessing during a card-based Marvel RP, and even had me switch from actual-character to secretly-mystique mid way.
Jim likes his gritty, old-school, if not low-magic certainly low-magic-item style stuff. And ALWAYS plays a Rogue.
Remember their usual style, and you can usually translate any cryptic statements out of DM-Speak and into Common.

shadow_archmagi
2009-07-20, 08:37 PM
I keep a 'Mental Scale of Evil'. In general terms Ranging from 0 to Jim. (Disclaimer - All DM's below can be enjoyed thoroughly, some just require a different mind-set.)

Jim alternates between claiming to be Evil and claiming he's unfairly maligned. Actual TPK's are rare, but the chances of your character/party actually gaining wealth, renown, or success of any kind are next to nothing. Approach everything as a potential danger. When feeling the need to clean, do not 'Jump into the Bath'; Run yourself a nice warm bath, test the temperature, and climb in with relief.

Check the Ceiling, use cover, expect failure. Roll a character who is perverse enough to continue following plot-hooks rather than taking the obvious next step of quitting the adventure to open a shop.


Wow. That's really helpful for my current dm. Awhile back I actually suggested starting a winery and growing into an economic superpower (just as an offhand "I don't actually intend to do this" sort of thing).

He replied "Like you could beat my NPCs at market economy"

erikun
2009-07-20, 08:40 PM
Example. I made an Artificer focusing on buffing items to beef up the other party members and let them have the glory. Except they didn't mention to me that they have this whole weird thing about stacking magical benefits, so I wasn't actually able to buff anyone.
Well, stuff like Gloves of Dexterity don't work with Cat's Grace, becuase they're both Enchantment bonuses. Most other common Artificer/Wizard buffs should work normally.

Not sure about the bees, though. I don't get it at all.

Riffington
2009-07-20, 08:40 PM
The same way I deal with the fact that different restaurants make the same dish differently: I eat it up yum :smallbiggrin: Later, when I get back home, I figure out whether I want to mess around with my own recipes.

shadow_archmagi
2009-07-20, 08:43 PM
So, speaking of in-jokes, has anyone gotten their group to burst into obscure welsh drinking songs at the mention of the word "dragon" yet?

Xefas
2009-07-20, 08:44 PM
Well, stuff like Gloves of Dexterity don't work with Cat's Grace, becuase they're both Enchantment bonuses. Most other common Artificer/Wizard buffs should work normally.

Not sure about the bees, though. I don't get it at all.

I had a Wand of Enlarge Person. I tried to use it on a Fighter who was not currently under the effect of any size-increasing effects. All bonuses given by Enlarge Person are size bonuses.

I couldn't. I still don't understand why. Something about his armor being too magical, maybe? And so he couldn't be more magical? I have no idea.

I know the rules about stacking bonuses. They were not using those.

Tiki Snakes
2009-07-20, 08:48 PM
Nah, Jim wouldn't drop world-face or be unfair about it, as such.
If he was running an intentionally open-enough game for you to try, you'd get a fair shot at it. You would fail, but you'd fail because he'd expect you to actually have to run the winery better than your opposition.
If you made crappy business choices, you'd fail quicker, but really, the pitfalls involved would soon see you trip.

Or you'd just be robbed the moment money started coming in, or you'd injure yourself whilst operating the wine-press.



He's nefarious enough that we had to pay up front for taking a contract to run a blockade in the Serenity campaign we just finished. The deal was 'fair' and 'true', but really that NPC was the only one who ended the campaign having increased his wealth in any kind of successful way.

90% of the party fell victim to the Biological Super-Weapon that we spent the adventure trying to get our grubby hands on (given it was disguised as a cache of platinum credits, and had been previously stolen by people who didn't know it wasn't.)
The only ones who didn't die a horrid death were my Doctor, who being a sadistic and unhelpful weirdo, had no intention of helping the captain unload and no urge to play scrooge-mcduck with the cash, and the knife-crazy but also superstitious mercenary, who was so creeped out by the warnings on the crates she wanted to blow the whole lot into space.

Rightly so, it turned out.

Oh, and any NPC's who were a couple of planets away with no chance of ever seeing platinum credits, as the Bio-weapon had a decent incubation time and no cure. Of course, the 90% of our party died super-rich, but there you go.

There's another for the Jim list - Treasure is a Trap until you have rigorously proved otherwise. Probably even then.
If at all possible, be paid remotely, to offshore accounts with plenty of safety-checks. Make sure YOU could always access the account if needed, no-matter what items you currently find yourself with access to, but an imposter NEVER COULD.

Knaight
2009-07-20, 08:50 PM
So, speaking of in-jokes, has anyone gotten their group to burst into obscure welsh drinking songs at the mention of the word "dragon" yet?

I recognize the quote. Where is it from?

TheStagesmith
2009-07-20, 08:57 PM
So, speaking of in-jokes, has anyone gotten their group to burst into obscure welsh drinking songs at the mention of the word "dragon" yet?

No, but a bandit from our first campaign who my cleric Diplomancied into the best ally we ever had (named Phil) has become a recurring character at most bars we come across, which means that anytime anyone mentions "bandits," "rogues," or "Dr. Phil" there's about a 50% chance we'll all start reminiscing and breaking out the extra-strong energy drinks.

Vortling
2009-07-20, 09:01 PM
You can always watch the other players as well. If there's a player who's played in the DMs games for a good long while you can take cues from them on how the DM is likely to play out a situation. Even subconsciously they'll react to a DM they've played with for a while.

Greengiant
2009-07-20, 09:09 PM
So, speaking of in-jokes, has anyone gotten their group to burst into obscure welsh drinking songs at the mention of the word "dragon" yet?

I want this to happen in my group, but I don't know any welsh drinking songs, though I should, that's where my mum is from. Where can I get obscene welsh drinking songs.

And personally, when I dm, I tell my players that I'm going to kill them, put scary monsters in front of them, etc, but most of the time, they have to really trip up to die, so they don't have to worry. Luckily, none of them are on this site, so I don't have to worry.

shadow_archmagi
2009-07-20, 09:28 PM
Or you'd just be robbed the moment money started coming in, or you'd injure yourself whilst operating the wine-press.


That sounds like him. Don't forget the fortitude save to avoid being overcome by noxious fumes and vomiting into the wine.

Tiki Snakes
2009-07-20, 09:31 PM
That sounds like him. Don't forget the fortitude save to avoid being overcome by noxious fumes and vomiting into the wine.

He'd give it a really, really low DC.

But you're going to roll a 1 eventually.

Thurbane
2009-07-20, 10:40 PM
DM: "The gateway ahead of you is shimmering."
Me: "I cast Detect Magic"
DM: *raise eyebrow* "Err...I guess you don't really see anything magical?"
Me: "Okay, I walk in."
DM: "WHAT?!"
Group: "Aw mans, the bees! The bees kill you."
DM and Group: *laughter*
Me: "What?"
DM and Group: "Oh, c'mon. The gateway was -shimmering-. Eh? eh?"
Me: "What?"
DM and Group" "Ah, nevermind. Start rolling up your next character while we finish this session."
Me: "What?"
...that's just...bizarre. Like your character didn't hear the buzzing or, I duuno, see the bees before you stepped into the swarm? :smalleek:

shadow_archmagi
2009-07-21, 06:22 AM
He'd give it a really, really low DC.

But you're going to roll a 1 eventually.

That's it precisely.

Random832
2009-07-21, 07:45 AM
[snip]

This is not an isolated incident.

They're ****ing with you.

Roll a reflex save even if they didn't give you one. If you don't make it, insist that a swarm of bees shouldn't do more than 3d6 damage plus poison (there are no stats for bees in the SRD, but that's how much hellwasps do) - if that's rejected...

You: *lazily toss a few dice on the table* "Huh, I rolled exactly the same stats for my new character - what are the odds?"

There are some situations that don't necessarily call for player cooperation.