4e Class Concepts: The Binder and the Truenamer (Basic Ideas, PEACH)

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

With the psionic classes just around the corner, bringing with them some new changes to the standard class formula, I started to think of how other classes could break the mold. Here's what I came up with, and I'm interested to hear what others think.

The Binder: The Binder gets no encounter powers. Instead, he gets Dailies that "bind" vestiges to him, granting him additional abilities until the next time he uses a daily power (and one vestige of his choice to begin the day with, so that the first attack doesn't have to be a daily for his class features to work). Each vestige would offer 1 to 3 (the same for all vestiges) static abilities, like a fly speed or resistance to fire. Additionally, each would have a burst effect when summoned (when the daily is used), and would provide either a power usable 1/X rounds, X/encounter, or would simply empower the Binder's at-will powers with a variety of more potent effects.

The Truenamer: The Truenamer is the inverse. It gets no Daily powers, instead building up a knowledge of slightly stronger than usual encounter powers. Perhaps many of these also have a reversible effect.

Alternatively, the Truenamer gains tons of At-Will powers, offering him a truly impressive array of choices. He also gains the ability to learn the truenames of his targets...and his attacks become more potent against those targets whose name he knows.

[Shades of Gray]

Very good ideas. The latter idea for the truenamer reminds me of hunter's quarry/warlock's curse, perhaps they'd be a primary or secondary striker?

[Shadow_Elf]

There is already a Binder Warlock that binds Vestiges with his dailies to gain new pact boons. So I think that would be stepping on some toes, fluff-wise and crunch-wise.

[RTGoodman]

I like the power-point style idea for the Truenamer - and handful of at-will and/or encounter powers (each possibly with a standard and opposite effect), that you could augment somehow. I definitely see it as an Arcane(?) Controller with Leader or Defender tendencies (since you could choose to use the opposite effects to either help your allies OR buff yourself).


For Binder, WotC already hit on the Daily vestige powers thing with the Vestige Pact Warlock (Arcane Power). Each vestige power is a daily power that ALSO affects your Pact at-will. I like the idea, probably moreso than my original binding idea (in my sig) of making it a ritual that you could perform, selecting feats for each vestige, and that worked essentially as power-swap feats.

[vasharanpaladin]

Binders have, as mentioned, resurfaced as a warlock option in Arcane Power (the Vestige Pact). The Sivis Truenamer (which has virtually identical flavor to the Tome of Magic truenamer) is a paragon path for characters with the Mark of Scribing feat, and to judge from appearances, truenaming is also an option for invokers as of Divine Power (Covenant of Malediction).

That being said, the idea of names as power is a very old one... it seems like it would be more fitting as a Primal class than Arcane or Divine.

[Gralamin]

With the psionic classes just around the corner, bringing with them some new changes to the standard class formula, I started to think of how other classes could break the mold. Here's what I came up with, and I'm interested to hear what others think.

The Binder: The Binder gets no encounter powers. Instead, he gets Dailies that "bind" vestiges to him, granting him additional abilities until the next time he uses a daily power (and one vestige of his choice to begin the day with, so that the first attack doesn't have to be a daily for his class features to work). Each vestige would offer 1 to 3 (the same for all vestiges) static abilities, like a fly speed or resistance to fire. Additionally, each would have a burst effect when summoned (when the daily is used), and would provide either a power usable 1/X rounds, X/encounter, or would simply empower the Binder's at-will powers with a variety of more potent effects.
This is a lot like a Vestige Warlock, though going on with this on your own as an "Alternate" way of summoning Vestiges could be cool.


The Truenamer: The Truenamer is the inverse. It gets no Daily powers, instead building up a knowledge of slightly stronger than usual encounter powers. Perhaps many of these also have a reversible effect.

Alternatively, the Truenamer gains tons of At-Will powers, offering him a truly impressive array of choices. He also gains the ability to learn the truenames of his targets...and his attacks become more potent against those targets whose name he knows.

I have a feeling that depending on exactly how much more potent things become determines whether these are going to be underpowered, about right, or overpowered.

[Limos]

As said the Truenaming bonus would probably work as a Mark mechanic. Any creature you learn the Truename of is considered Marked, all your At-wills or Encounter powers could have an extra line for marked opponents rather than just doing extra damage.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

As said the Truenaming bonus would probably work as a Mark mechanic. Any creature you learn the Truename of is considered Marked, all your At-wills or Encounter powers could have an extra line for marked opponents rather than just doing extra damage.

Yep. That's the basic idea. I've also toyed with having all the Truenamer's abilities be area effects: words that shape the world and natural forces. When he knows a truename though, he goes from being a group controller to a single-target controller with a more devastating effect.

For example: North Wind's Name might send out a blast of chill air to slow his foes. If targeted on a single foe, it might immobilize that foe (save ends) and, until a successful save, deal ongoing cold damage.

And I was thinking of making it Primal, as truenames are, without a doubt, the most natural magic. They're the names the universe calls itself...you can't get any older or more natural than that.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

The Binder: The Binder gets no encounter powers. Instead, he gets Dailies that "bind" vestiges to him, granting him additional abilities until the next time he uses a daily power (and one vestige of his choice to begin the day with, so that the first attack doesn't have to be a daily for his class features to work). Each vestige would offer 1 to 3 (the same for all vestiges) static abilities, like a fly speed or resistance to fire. Additionally, each would have a burst effect when summoned (when the daily is used), and would provide either a power usable 1/X rounds, X/encounter, or would simply empower the Binder's at-will powers with a variety of more potent effects.

To differentiate this from the vestige warlock, instead of empowering at-wills you could have each vestige possess two at-wills and two encounters associated with it, and binding a given vestige sets those as your powers. They would scale to the highest level known (so if you can use 3rd-level encounters, your "1st-level" encounter power scales to be as good as other 3rd-level powers) and could be usable multiple times if you can use more than one of each (so if you would normally have 3 encounter powers you can use your vestige powers 3 times). Basically, it would be like a psion, but with augmentation pre-decided, if that makes sense. It lets you have the "suite of powers" feel as well as many vestiges' power-every-five-rounds thing with the multiple-use encounter powers.

Daily powers would let you do things like swap which vestige is bound, "expel" a vestige onto the battlefield (like a summons), and other things not associated with a particular vestige.


The Truenamer: The Truenamer is the inverse. It gets no Daily powers, instead building up a knowledge of slightly stronger than usual encounter powers. Perhaps many of these also have a reversible effect.

The reversible effect should probably be based on a class feature, not built into the class, so multiclassers don't get it. Maybe there's a Lexicon of the Evolving Mind class feature that lets you reverse single-target effects, and a Lexicon of the Perfected Map class feature that lets you reverse area effects. Since you said all of the powers would be area powers with extra effects for single targets, this could result in things like an Evolving Mind truenamer being able to take your North Wind's Name power and, instead of immobilizing one foe, slide an ally 1 and grant cold resistance for a round or two, or maybe a Perfected Map truenamer being able to deal fire damage with it instead of cold damage.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

TRUENAMER

Designer's Note: The Truenamer is interesting. It's a Constitution based (Charisma and Intelligence secondary) controller who specializes in weaker effects across a wide range and truly powerful effects against a single opponent. Constitution was chosen for two reasons: firstly, there is a lack of Constitution dependent classes. Secondly, speaking a Truename is incredibly taxing on the body, as the language isn't made for mortal voices, let alone human. Charisma and Intelligence are both logical secondary scores, but for most effects the Truenamer will be able to choose which he wishes to focus on.

Many Truename abilities may seem very powerful, like the Edict of Banishment (True Edict) shown below. Remember that these effects are good against only (at most) two opponents in any encounter. Also, when faced against a single foe whose truename he knows, the Truenamer is supposed to shine. Against two or three non-minion foes, he'll have significantly more trouble.

With that said, here's some thoughts. Opinions?

CLASS TRAITS
Role: Controller.
Power Source: Truenames.
Key Abilities: Constitution, Charisma, Intelligence.

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth.
Weapon Proficiencies: Dagger, Quarterstaff.
Implements: To Be Determined.
Bonus to Defenses: +1 Fortitude, +1 Will.

Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + Constitution score.
Hit Points per Level Gained: 4.
Healing Surges per Day: 5 + Constitution modifier.

Trained Skills: Arcana, History. From the class skills list below, choose two more trained skills at 1st level. ????

Class Features: Discern Truename, Primal Tongue, Truename Mastery

Discern Truename: You gain the use of the Discern Truename power.

Discern Truename – Truenamer Feature
You delve into the fabric of the universe, plucking the knowledge of your foe’s truename from the weave of reality.
Encounter * Lexicologic
Minor Action – Range 20
Target: 1 target within range
Effect: You learn the target’s truename. From this point onward, you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls on Edicts against that opponent, and that opponent receives a -2 penalty to saving throws against your Edicts. Additionally, you may now use the True Edict of any of your powers against that opponent.

Primal Tongue: You can understand (but not speak) all vocal languages. You can read (but not write) all written languages.

Truename Mastery: Choose one of the following two options.
—Master of the Secret Name: You gain an additional use of the Discern Truename power per encounter. Your True Edict powers threaten a critical hit on a roll of 19-20.
—Perfection of the Verbal Form: You may choose to exclude allies or enemies from the area of effect of your Edicts.

Level 1 At-Will Edicts
Edict of Banishment – Truenamer Attack 1
At your forceful word your foes are hurled physically back by some invisible force.
At-Will * Force, Implement, Lexicologic
Standard Action – Burst 2
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Constitution vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + the greater of your Charisma or Intelligence modifiers force damage, and you may push the target a number of squares equal to the greater of your Charisma or Intelligence modifiers.
Increase damage to 2d6 + the greater of your Charisma or Intelligence modifiers damage at 21st level.

Edict of Banishment (True Edict)– Truenamer Attack 1
Uttering your foe’s truename, you temporarily banish them from the universe.
At-Will * Implement, Lexicologic
Standard Action – Range 10
Target: 1 target whose truename you know
Attack: Constitution vs. Will
Hit: Remove your opponent from the field. They do not act in the next round. At the beginning of their next turn in the round following the round of inactivity, your opponent returns to the field in the space they previously occupied, or the nearest available space if their original is occupied. While your opponent is removed from the field they may take no actions of any sort, may make no saving throws, nor do they gain benefits or suffer detriments from any ongoing effects. Additionally, no attacks, whether mortal or divine, can harm or affect them in any way. For all intents and purposes the target is treated as if it did not exist until it returns.

[Xallace]

I'd say Tomes would be the most logical implement for the Truenamer.

[RTGoodman]

A few things:

-Tomes are the PERFECT implement for the truenamer.
-Remove the crit on a 19-20 from Truename Mastery. That's more like a Paragon or Epic level ability/feat.
-I don't know how much I like having two separate versions of every power. The Psion has different versions, but they at least keep it in one attack stat block. I think that'd be the way to go. Maybe instead, each power just has a "True Edict:" line underneath that slightly changes the power when you know the person's truename. For edict of banishment, it could be something like:

True Edict: The power only targets one enemy. The damage
becomes 2d6 + Int modifier, and the target is dazed for one
round after the push.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I'd say Tomes would be the most logical implement for the Truenamer.

Doh! I completely forgot about tomes.


-Remove the crit on a 19-20 from Truename Mastery. That's more like a Paragon or Epic level ability/feat.

You think? I'd normally agree, but it's one a small subset of powers usable against a single foe at a time. If it were likely to trigger a lot (on all powers, for example) I'd agree instantly. As it is I'll consider it though.


-I don't know how much I like having two separate powers. Maybe instead, each power just has a "True Edict:" line underneath that slightly changes the power. For edict of banishment, it could be something like:

True Edict: The power only targets one enemy.
The damage becomes 2d6 + Int modifier, and the target
is dazed for one round after the push.

See, I like the idea of separate powers. It makes it more flavorful...knowing someone's truename allows you to do terrible and unique things. One high level one I had in mind would shake the earth on an area effect...and, when individually targeted, cause the earth to swallow the target entirely.

But if I get enough people agreeing with you, I'll most likely change it.

[Leeham]

Separate powers would make the whole thing.... bulky. A different/additional effect to the existing power tagged on at the end would not only avoid a morass of powers but would make the class more fun to play, i think.


Also, when i saw this thread my pants got a little shorter. Thank you so much :smallbiggrin:

[Vadin]

I like the idea of no daily powers for the truenamer, but extra encounter and at-will powers.

Giving every power a single-target, slightly stronger effect for use against targets whose truename you know and a more typical multi-target controller-ish effect is something I heartily approve of.

[vasharanpaladin]

Given it's a Primal class, I would suggest also including Totems as their implements, if only because it fits to form. :smalleek:

[RTGoodman]

I like the idea of no daily powers for the truenamer, but extra encounter and at-will powers.

Or, and this is one thing I just thought about, if you wanted to keep Daily powers (for balance or whatever reason), you could have all the at-wills (which, like the Psion, would take the place of at-wills AND encounter powers) take care of enemy control and all that stuff, while Daily powers would affect the terrain like the 3.x Lexicon of the Perfected Map or whatever it was called. So you could either hit enemies and debuff them and all that with at-wills, focus on one enemy with your True Edict versions, or affect the battlefield terrain-changing powers and all that.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Or, and this is one thing I just thought about, if you wanted to keep Daily powers (for balance or whatever reason), you could have all the at-wills (which, like the Psion, would take the place of at-wills AND encounter powers) take care of enemy control and all that stuff, while Daily powers would affect the terrain like the 3.x Lexicon of the Perfected Map or whatever it was called. So you could either hit enemies and debuff them and all that with at-wills, focus on one enemy with your True Edict versions, or affect the battlefield terrain-changing powers and all that.

Not a bad idea...fi I wanted to keep the daily powers. However, I'm not big fan of the current At-Will/Encounter/Daily set-up, and I'm trying to break the mold to make the Truenamer unique amongst the classes. :smallbiggrin: