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View Full Version : (3.5) How many ways can you increase the DC of Psionic Sleep?



Kobold_Love
2009-07-21, 12:28 AM
Hi Roleplaying. I am wanting to make a psion who specializes in incapacitating his enemies, mostly to either try and bring them under his banner, get information, to place them in his wagon with a cage at the back, or other fun things I'll come up with later.

Thankfully psionic sleep offers augmentation, but sadly the save DC des not increase.

If you folks have any ideas please let me know. Many thanks.

T.G. Oskar
2009-07-21, 02:09 AM
Well, if it doesn't offer augmentation, usually it's the level of the power + the key ability modifier to manifest the power (in a psion's case, Intelligence)

However, I wonder how you can put an enemy to sleep with Psionics, if there is no equivalent psionic version of sleep? Perhaps you'd be working as an Erudite using the spell to power variant (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) (look down).

Also, IIRC, there's one or two items in the Magic Item Compendium, the Expanded Psionics Handbook and Complete Psionics which should aid you in raising general DC for any manifestation. There's also feats that can aid (Psionic Endowment/Greater Psionic Endowment)

But still, I haven't seen any psionic power that causes sleep. Perhaps it's psionic daze or something?

Person_Man
2009-07-21, 09:06 AM
1) Increase your Int
2) Debuff your enemy

There are tons of different abilities, feats, and conditions that reduce Saves. Fear effects, Poison, Hexblade, tons of different spells and psionic powers, etc.

Kobold_Love
2009-07-21, 12:55 PM
However, I wonder how you can put an enemy to sleep with Psionics, if there is no equivalent psionic version of sleep? Perhaps you'd be working as an Erudite using the spell to power variant (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) (look down).

But still, I haven't seen any psionic power that causes sleep. Perhaps it's psionic daze or something?

The power is from the psionic book Hyperconscious, which while 3rd party is completely written by the same author who wrote the Expanded Psionic Handbook and Complete Psionics books for WotC.


Well, if it doesn't offer augmentation, usually it's the level of the power + the key ability modifier to manifest the power (in a psion's case, Intelligence)

I know that, and it offers augmentation.


Also, IIRC, there's one or two items in the Magic Item Compendium, the Expanded Psionics Handbook and Complete Psionics which should aid you in raising general DC for any manifestation. There's also feats that can aid (Psionic Endowment/Greater Psionic Endowment)

OK, stating this backup character up as level 7 I have so far done the following:


He took the Teleapth Discipline (No DC boost, but related)
Psionic Endowment+Greater Psionic Endowment (DC+2)
Bought a Psionatrix of of Telepathy (DC+1)
Headband of Intellect +2 (DC+1)
This recurring character (with a new twist) has always been a gray elf, so +2 Int (DC+1)
Rolled a 17 for Int + the 4th level boost give him a base Int score of 18 ((DC+4)


I believe that is a total of a base 19 save for his Telepathy powers.

So for the first level power Sleep I believe that would be a DC20 save. Is this good, or too easy to pass at around level 7?

Anyway, I looked through my XPH, the Complete Nonsesne book, and the Magic Item Compendium, but I found nothing else that would increase save DCs. Did I overlook something?


p.s. I also took almost exclusively Telepathy powers to take advantage of this build.



1) Increase your Int


OK, I will focus on improving my headband.



2) Debuff your enemy


Hmm. Can psions debuff? Never tried doing that as a psion, always thought that was strictly clerics.

T.G. Oskar
2009-07-21, 03:28 PM
I know that, and it offers augmentation.

Well then, it's pretty bizarre that the augmentation does not offer an increase to DC. It would be the natural method, as between Sleep and Deep Slumber, the difference is 3 HD. Most Psionic powers offer augmentation options that allow a lower level spell to duplicate the effect of a higher-level spell that works similarly. So I find it odd that the only augmentation level would be "for each point you spend, the amount of HD you can affect increases by one" without the option to "for each 3 points you spend, the save DC of the power increases by 1" (which would replicate Deep Slumber perfectly as a 4th level-equivalent power)


OK, stating this backup character up as level 7 I have so far done the following:


He took the Teleapth Discipline (No DC boost, but related)
Psionic Endowment+Greater Psionic Endowment (DC+2)
Bought a Psionatrix of of Telepathy (DC+1)
Headband of Intellect +2 (DC+1)
This recurring character (with a new twist) has always been a gray elf, so +2 Int (DC+1)
Rolled a 17 for Int + the 4th level boost give him a base Int score of 18 ((DC+4)


I believe that is a total of a base 19 save for his Telepathy powers.

So for the first level power Sleep I believe that would be a DC20 save. Is this good, or too easy to pass at around level 7?

Let's see: a Cleric with a Periapt of Wisdom +2 and a Cloak of Resistance +2 would have the equivalent of a +13 to Wis by that moment, so it fails on a 6 or less roll. That's a rough 30% to hit, give or take any other benefit it would provide. Depending on how the DM rolls, it's between decent to bad (if the DM rolls quite average, the save is passed easily)

Still, it attacks Will, and I'm placing a character which is only mildly boosting its Will. It will make Fighters and Rogues and most characters sleep quite easily.


Anyway, I looked through my XPH, the Complete Nonsesne book, and the Magic Item Compendium, but I found nothing else that would increase save DCs. Did I overlook something?

Probably not. Something to increase DC for psionics is either pretty obscure and/or pretty expensive. The only other choice is to increase your Int through different methods (such as the manual that grants you insight bonus to Int, or Reality Revision), which as a bare minimum will increase your Int by 5 (and thus your DC by 2)

Also, psionatrixes first appeared at CPsi.


Hmm. Can psions debuff? Never tried doing that as a psion, always thought that was strictly clerics.

Actually, wizards do better debuffing than clerics, IMO. But yeah, psions can debuff quite well, considering the expanded power list they have. At least their first-level powers have, as an example, the ability to reduce speed by half. Stygian powers, on CPsi, can cause negative levels. So I wouldn't say it's so bad.

As a final say, you've pretty much chosen the best of the disciplines for a Psion. I don't say much because of Mind Switch/True MS, but Psychic Chirurgery works wonders. You gain good benefits from Telepathy even as some of your powers lose to Mind Blank and Psionic Mind Blank.

tr0ck
2009-08-07, 01:12 AM
I'm interested in the manual that gives insight bonuses to your abilities rather than inherent, what book are those in?