Can Roy and Celia have a baby?

[Saknussem]

Is it possible for Roy and Celia to have a baby?

[Kish]

Air genasi, yes.

Edit: The answer to the question the starting post now appears to ask is "no." Roy and Celia do not have a baby at this time. :smalltongue:

[nysisobli]

yes, they can

[The Rose Dragon]

Umm... what's with the title? Why not write the entire question?

Seriously, I thought it was about a guy named Can.

And yes, they totally can. Humans can mate with anything in existence (and quite a few things out of it).

[Fitzclowningham]

And when their child dies, would it go to an afterlife or be assimilated into the Plane of Air?

[Optimystik]

And when their child dies, would it go to an afterlife or be assimilated into the Plane of Air?

Genasi have binary souls, if that's what you're asking. (i.e., option A)

[Morquard]

The lower half gets merged with the plane of air, and the upper half floats through the afterlife.
Or the other way around, but that would look severely odd.

[Cizak]

Seriously, I thought it was about a guy named Can.

I thought it was about a can :smalltongue:

[The Rose Dragon]

I thought it was about a can :smalltongue:

There should be a ten character rule on titles.

[Kish]

Can???????

[Optimystik]

Can???????

http://www.tmonews.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/i-see-what-you-did-there.jpg

[Carteeg_Struve]

Is there a 5 cent deposit on this thread?

[Raphite1]

Did you mean to ask, "How is babby formed? How is babby formed? How girl get pragnent?"

The answer is, "They need to do way instain mother> who kill thier babbys. becuse these babby cant frigth back it was on the news this mroing a mother in ar who had kill her three kids . they are taking the three babby back to new york too lady to rest my pary are with the father who lost his chrilden ; i am truley sorry for your lots"

[Roland St. Jude]

I saw this thread and I just wanted to kick it. But I renamed it instead.

[Optimystik]

Did you mean to ask, "How is babby formed? How is babby formed? How girl get pragnent?"

How is genasy formed? How fraiy get pragnent?

Okay, I'll really stop now :smallbiggrin:


I saw this thread and I just wanted to kick it. But I renamed it instead.

You can still kick it...

[Zevox]

Genasi have binary souls, if that's what you're asking. (i.e., option A)
Body-soul duality, you mean. "Binary souls" would imply they had two souls... and I don't think anything, D&D included, has come up with a system in which such a thing is possible.

Zevox

[SadisticFishing]

Hrm.. Kalashtar?

[Scarlet Knight]

The lower half gets merged with the plane of air, and the upper half floats through the afterlife.
Or the other way around, but that would look severely odd.

Ah! So THAT's where seraphim come from! :smallwink:

[Faleldir]

Don't you know that TRUE LOVE allows humans to interbreed with literally anything? Even if they're both male and one is technically dead!

[Assassin89]

Air genasi, yes.

Edit: The answer to the question the starting post now appears to ask is "no." Roy and Celia do not have a baby at this time. :smalltongue:

That would be the grandchildren and subsequent descendants, not children. The resulting offspring would more likely be a half air elemental human.

[Alysar]

Don't you know that TRUE LOVE allows humans to interbreed with literally anything? Even if they're both male and one is technically dead!

You're reading too many Xanth novels.



I'm in a game where my halfling got another PC pregnant who is half human and half a homebrew race called a 'Dragon Elf'. She made a Wish that it be possible.

[Bibliomancer]

Don't you know that TRUE LOVE allows humans to interbreed with literally anything? Even if they're both male and one is technically dead!

There's also a spell called Polymorph any Object (which V will be able to cast in 1-2 levels) that would make this entire discussion academic. I think that's the way Roy and Celia will go if they decide to procreate.

[satorian]

While it seems that, in 3.5 rules at least, humans can breed with almost everything, three I haven't seen are dwarves, halflings and gnomes. I guess you could slap on a half-human template to those (which leaves the door open to wizard-did-it), but I've always wondered why if half-orcs are so common, these aren't at least mentioned. From the comic, Belkar mates with humans. Can he impregnate them? What about elves? Or orcs and dwarves? Or gnomes and halflings?

[daggaz]

I think they avoid the whole halfling íssue because a half halfling would be a quarterling, tho in reality it would be a three-fourthser... and thus the entire campaign devolves into monty pythonisms so yeah... for once WotC did something totally right.

Dwarves are just too homocentric according to the fluff to want to mate with anything thats not a dwarf (and probably not even a dwarf from another clan), unless its a dragon in disguise with a LOT of gold.

Gnomes? Gnomes are horrible scary monsters that dwell in the deepest recesses of the monster manual! They are terrors used to hold children in line and which keep even brave men awake at night. They are not to be mated with.

[hamishspence]

excepting the Derro- supposedly dwarf-human hybrids- and very mad, as well as evil.

[Skorj]

Is there anything in the D&D universe that humans can't mate with? It sometimes seems that half the monsters in D&D are the result of humans breeding with the other half.

EDIT: do we have any actual proof that Halflings aren't half-Human, half-Gnome? :smallamused:

[Ancalagon]

Is there anything in the D&D universe that humans can't mate with? It sometimes seems that half the monsters in D&D are the result of humans breeding with the other half.

EDIT: do we have any actual proof that Halflings aren't half-Human, half-Gnome? :smallamused:

That has to do with the fact that players want to play <add something overpowered here>. Whoa... DM, can I play a master-swordsman-sorcerer-half-<something quite powerful that was never meant to be playable>. ;)

[Ancalagon]

EDIT: do we have any actual proof that Halflings aren't half-Human, half-Gnome? :smallamused:

Yes, we do have. As Gnomes are actually half-human-half-halfling. ;)

[derfenrirwolv]

With D&D genetics? Yes.

I'm surprised the party hasn't found a half human half marlin at this point...

So is a halfling what you get when a human mates with nothing?

[Alysar]

Gnomes? Gnomes are horrible scary monsters that dwell in the deepest recesses of the monster manual! They are terrors used to hold children in line and which keep even brave men awake at night. They are not to be mated with.

Ah. I see you've read the entry on Gnomes in "The Book of Erotic Fantasy"

[SoC175]

The only thing worse than humans in this regard are dragons.

Half-dragon-carrion-crawler :yuk: I can't imaginge there really was enough booze to get a dragon to do this.

[hamishspence]

Draconomicon had a dragon who officially had half-dragon-half shambling mound offspring as minions.

[The Rose Dragon]

The only thing worse than humans in this regard are dragons.

Half-dragon-carrion-crawler :yuk: I can't imaginge there really was enough booze to get a dragon to do this.

Half-dragon gelatinous cube.

[Eldan]

I guess they have acid immunity and were really drunk.

[Zevox]

The only thing worse than humans in this regard are dragons.

Half-dragon-carrion-crawler :yuk: I can't imaginge there really was enough booze to get a dragon to do this.
That's nothing. One of my characters actually once had to fight a Half-Dragon Black Pudding.

Yeah, I shut down any contemplations in my mind on how that was even possible long ago.

Zevox

[David Argall]

The standard rule of fantasy is that 1 [female, any type] + 1 [male, any type] = 3.

So in about nine months, Roy could be a daddy [of a kid who will really want to be a wizard if family ancestry is any guide]. The plot probably means he is safe, but since Celia is going to be on the sidelines for some time, and maybe the rest of the story, it's possible that Celia will be paying for a sending spell to Roy for a "special message".

[hamishspence]

Its possible that strip 600 has a little foreshadowing "the pitter patter of little feet, or the woosh-woosh of little wings, as the case might be"

But we'll have to wait and see.

[Saknussem]

Thanks for making the title better. I let my son try his hand at being clever. I proofed him for bad words and such, but he wanted the title that way for some unknown 8 year old reason.

I have pointed out your response, Roland, thanks. I think he gets it now.

[Thrax]

Half-dragon black pudding? What GM made up such a thing?

I can't see what problem would be in Roy and Celia having children. If they can do you know what (and they can), in fantasy it means they can have children together. Unless some unexpected plot makes one of them permamently dead, it will happen almost certainly.

[Assassin89]

I can't see what problem would be in Roy and Celia having children. If they can do you know what (and they can), in fantasy it means they can have children together. Unless some unexpected plot makes one of them permanently dead, it will happen almost certainly.

Or sterile, don't forget sterile.

[Forbiddenwar]

this may have slipped into D&D, but I seem to remember a rule that Half beings are infertile (unable to produce off-spring), like Mules (half horse half donkey)
If this is the case, it explains Belkar well. (If halfings are half human half gnome)

[Carnivorous M.]

All I know is that if they did have a baby I would be one happy forum...lurker...comic-reader...person...thing. :smallbiggrin:

[Raphite1]

So is a halfling what you get when a human mates with nothing?


Halflings are haploidal humans, probably produced by some sort of asexual reproduction, perhaps budding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budding).

[Finwe]

Can???????


CAAAAAAAAAANNNNN!!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRnSnfiUI54#t=0m18s)





So is a halfling what you get when a human mates with nothing?

If that were the case, there would be several hundred halflings for every human male.

[Optimystik]

this may have slipped into D&D, but I seem to remember a rule that Half beings are infertile (unable to produce off-spring), like Mules (half horse half donkey)
If this is the case, it explains Belkar well. (If halfings are half human half gnome)

Not all of them. Half-elves are certainly capable of bearing offspring.

[David Argall]

Or sterile, don't forget sterile.

Sterile is dull. It just means there was some meaningless sex. A pregnant Celia means problems, and that is what the strip needs. So fertility can be assumed.

[JonestheSpy]

The standard rule of fantasy is that 1 [female, any type] + 1 [male, any type] = 3.



For once I agree with David. The rule in DnD seems to be that anything can mate with anything, and that child can then mate with anything else and produce offspring - no mules at all, at all.

[Morquard]

Half-dragon black pudding? What GM made up such a thing?
GM: "You come around a corner and see a giant bowl of black pudding"
Player 1: "I cast detect evil"
Player 2: "I cast a fireball on it"
GM: "Its pudding!"
[5 minutes later...]
GM: "Seriously... its just pudding. You guys haven't eaten anything since the last campaign which was 2 weeks ago, and none of you has a magic item to not need food. I just don't want you to die"
Player 3: "Yeah right, a GM who doesn't want to kill the PCs... I hit the evil pudding with my greataxe!"
[another 5 minutes later]
GM: "Fine... The giant pudding starts moving and you see its infact a half-dragon. It breathes vanilla sauce all over you"

[LurkerInPlayground]

Roy and Celia have a baby?
Magic.

So yes.

[Zevox]

GM: "You come around a corner and see a giant bowl of black pudding"
Player 1: "I cast detect evil"
Player 2: "I cast a fireball on it"
GM: "Its pudding!"
[5 minutes later...]
GM: "Seriously... its just pudding. You guys haven't eaten anything since the last campaign which was 2 weeks ago, and none of you has a magic item to not need food. I just don't want you to die"
Player 3: "Yeah right, a GM who doesn't want to kill the PCs... I hit the evil pudding with my greataxe!"
[another 5 minutes later]
GM: "Fine... The giant pudding starts moving and you see its infact a half-dragon. It breathes vanilla sauce all over you"
You do realize that a Black Pudding is an actual D&D monster (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/monstersOtoR.html#black-pudding), right? :smallconfused:

Zevox

[SinsI]

I wonder if we can get a child between V and Belkar (you know, as something to replace him).

[Zone]

There's also a spell called Polymorph any Object (which V will be able to cast in 1-2 levels) that would make this entire discussion academic.
Except, you know, Transmutation.

[quick_comment]

Except, you know, Transmutation.

V has transmutation. He doesnt have necromancy and conjuration

[derfenrirwolv]

I can't find a baby on any of the equipment lists. Until we figure out the gp value they can't have one.

[Iago]

Sterile is dull. It just means there was some meaningless sex.

You say that as though it is a bad thing....

[Ancalagon]

You say that as though it is a bad thing....

From a story-plot-and-drama-perspecitve... it is.

[Ave]

They did everything to have one.
It is up to the plot now :)

[Kish]

They did everything to have one.
I would say the assumption that Roy and Celia aren't using any kind of protection is insupportable.

[Snake-Aes]

You do realize that a Black Pudding is an actual D&D monster (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/monstersOtoR.html#black-pudding), right? :smallconfused:

Zevox

My favorite level 1 spell in Arton's spell list for arcanes: Transform into Plum Pudding.

[Random832]

V has transmutation. He doesnt have necromancy and conjuration

The only barred school we actually know he has is Conjuration - he was created under 3.0 rules (3.0 Evokers only needed to pick one barred school if it's Conjuration or Transmutation) and doesn't seem to have been given the option to switch barred schools in the conversion.

[Ancalagon]

I would say the assumption that Roy and Celia aren't using any kind of protection is insupportable.

Those spells can fail, as Eugene found out for us...

[hamishspence]

Plus Roy's mother said "Next time I see you I expect you to have put a bun in her oven."

They might not be bothering.

[Kish]

Those spells can fail, as Eugene found out for us...
Yes, but if they're using one they haven't done everything to make a baby. Also, I'm desperately and futile-ly hoping we can avoid going back to the days of "Celia's tummy is totally bigger than the last time we saw her!...oh, Kazumi's pregnancy demonstrates that the timeline doesn't work for Celia to be pregnant?...uh, sylphs gestate much more slowly than humans!" Practically speaking, of course, I know "Celia is pregnant" is far too resilient a meme for my feeble efforts to contest.

Plus Roy's mother said "Next time I see you I expect you to have put a bun in her oven."

They might not be bothering.
You omitted a fairly important part of her line without using ...s. :smalltongue: And the next time she sees him he'll be dead again. Planning for marriage and children? Quite possibly. Deciding to have a baby right now, while he's questing to destroy Xykon, she's in law school, and they're not even certain they're in love (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0529.html)? Not the same.

[Optimystik]

I would say the assumption that Roy and Celia aren't using any kind of protection is insupportable.

Other than the fact that neither Roy nor Celia are wizards... :smallwink:

[David Argall]

I would say the assumption that Roy and Celia aren't using any kind of protection is insupportable.

Well, we don't get a close enough view to be at all sure, but both Roy and Celia came into this scene with essentially nothing except what has been borrowed from others. They have several sources to borrow from, but they had to do it in the past few hours and have considerable reasons to get distracted. Of course this is the sort of thing one should not get distracted about, but it is easy to do so.
Nobody should be saying that can't happen if Celia has something to tell Roy in a few months.

[hamishspence]

Yes, but if they're using one they haven't done everything to make a baby. Also, I'm desperately and futile-ly hoping we can avoid going back to the days of "Celia's tummy is totally bigger than the last time we saw her!...oh, Kazumi's pregnancy demonstrates that the timeline doesn't work for Celia to be pregnant?...uh, sylphs gestate much more slowly than humans!" Practically speaking, of course, I know "Celia is pregnant" is far too resilient a meme for my feeble efforts to contest.

You omitted a fairly important part of her line without using ...s. :smalltongue: And the next time she sees him he'll be dead again. Planning for marriage and children? Quite possibly. Deciding to have a baby right now, while he's questing to destroy Xykon, she's in law school, and they're not even certain they're in love (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0529.html)? Not the same.


Good point.

[Janmorel]

Other than the fact that neither Roy nor Celia are wizards... :smallwink:

You mean humans can't shoot lightening from their fingertips or choose when to gestate? :smallconfused: Weird.

[Frosty]

According to DnD, humans can even mate with horses.

...:smallconfused:

Where do you think we get Centaurs?

[hamishspence]

Races of Faerun mentioned this as a discredited tale (about elves, not humans)

"a centaur is rumoured to be result of a mad cross between wild elves and mustangs, but both elves and centaurs take umbrage at this suggestion. The mustangs are silent on the matter."

[Optimystik]

You mean humans can't shoot lightening from their fingertips or choose when to gestate? :smallconfused: Weird.

I was referring to the fact that neither of them likely knows a contraceptive spell. (That would be an odd choice for a sorceress unless she was planning to get pretty "active," if you catch my drift.)

[Kish]

I was referring to the fact that neither of them likely knows a contraceptive spell. (That would be an odd choice for a sorceress unless she was planning to get pretty "active," if you catch my drift.)
Not themselves. But...well, let's just say I don't get the impression that the OotS-universe is meant to be an, "If you're personally a wizard, you have access to contraception, if not better hope you either don't want to have sex with another fertile creature of the opposite sex or do want tons of babies" setup.

[hamishspence]

Forgotten Realms Campaign setting listed herbs that both males and females can take.

Not sure if OOTS is likely to follow that concept though.

[Optimystik]

Forgotten Realms Campaign setting listed herbs that both males and females can take.

Not sure if OOTS is likely to follow that concept though.

It's certainly possible, though the only such preventative measure we know about is specifically a spell.


Not themselves. But...well, let's just say I don't get the impression that the OotS-universe is meant to be an, "If you're personally a wizard, you have access to contraception, if not better hope you either don't want to have sex with another fertile creature of the opposite sex or do want tons of babies" setup.

And I actually agree with you, but Roy's been out of commission and Celia's been in hostile territory since she arrived back on this plane. They didn't exactly have time to swing by Walgreen's before doing the do.

[hamishspence]

It's certainly possible, though the only such preventative measure we know about is specifically a spell.


In OoTS, certainly. (that spell isn't listed in any 3.0 or 3.5 book I know of though). Call it homebrew. Or possibly imported from 2nd ed- I don't know 2nd ed that well.

[Zone]

V has transmutation. He doesnt have necromancy and conjuration
Ah, my bad. I mixed up the "Teleport was still a trans. spell" strip and real barred classes :|

[Kish]

Actually, upon further reflection, considering that Celia is not an adventurer and can switch out her spells under 3.5 rules, I'd think it would be eminently practical for her to have chosen a contraceptive spell.

The crossed-out part, I decided I didn't actually need. For a heterosexual human woman who didn't want to have a tubal ligation and whose partner didn't want to have a vasectomy, the spell would stay useful 'til menopause; Celia doesn't age like mortals do, so unless she wants a literally infinite number of children or to stop having sex after a mere hundred years or so, the spell will remain extremely useful to her forever.

[Optimystik]

In OoTS, certainly. (that spell isn't listed in any 3.0 or 3.5 book I know of though). Call it homebrew. Or possibly imported from 2nd ed- I don't know 2nd ed that well.

BoEF maybe? :smallbiggrin:

[fangthane]

I don't think contraception is likely to be all that widespread in this fantasy setting any more than most others. In a relatively primitive society*, birth and death tend to be more common, and in a society with dragons, orcs, goblins and the rest applying pressure, I'd expect it to be even moreso.

Parents with several thousand gp of diamond dust to Raise junior when s/he does something stupid (Dead again?! There goes your college fund) might be willing or even eager to limit their procreation, but for the most part they'd want several kids to ensure at least one growing up to have children of their own.

*Relative to ours, that is; however advanced some cultures in the OotS world may be in some ways, at its core the world is still mostly a medieval-level society, largely feudal/monarchical or compatible therewith. Hence the hack on Eberron's trains, which are still only analogous to the Industrial Revolution, and V's reversal of the "science sufficiently advanced" angle.

[Kish]

Relative to ours, that is; however advanced some cultures in the OotS world may be in some ways, at its core the world is still mostly a medieval-level society,
Many people say this about D&D worlds in general. I always find it insupportable. Socially, the role of women is the most obvious of many differences. And...which technologies haven't been developed because no one, of all the superintelligent beings in a typical D&D universe, knows how, which have been developed and are in use, and which haven't been developed because magic makes them less appealing, is not a question to wave off with "it's medieval-level, because I say so!"

[Ozymandias9]

From a story-plot-and-drama-perspecitve... it is.

Unless they want to have a baby and can't. Wahhngst sells movies and books well.

[fangthane]

Many people say this about D&D worlds in general. I always find it insupportable. Socially, the role of women is the most obvious of many differences. And...which technologies haven't been developed because no one, of all the superintelligent beings in a typical D&D universe, knows how, which have been developed and are in use, and which haven't been developed because magic makes them less appealing, is not a question to wave off with "it's medieval-level, because I say so!"

I consider it medieval-level because of all the locations we've been shown in the world thus far, the preponderance fit that description. Further, you haven't addressed the fact that additional death rate in the form of other races wanting carnage requires - the occasional Raise or resurrection notwithstanding - a substantially higher birth rate to hold even.

I stand by the assessment.

[Snake-Aes]

According to DnD, humans can even mate with horses.

...:smallconfused:

Where do you think we get Centaurs?

Arton's most famous centaur was born more or less that way.

A certain horse gave birth to a horse and a human. That horse became a druid, and the human, it's animal companion.

One day his horse master fell ill and, in a desperate attempt of not being alone, the human jumped with him in the Chasm of Hynning.(lots of prophecy stuff about the place).
Days later, an eagle leaves the chasm, turns out it is a centaur made of those two beings, back with full druidic powers.

[Kish]

I consider it medieval-level because of all the locations we've been shown in the world thus far, the preponderance fit that description.
Well, Haley's an adventurer in every location we've been shown in the world so far. But, I suppose, anything can look like a medieval society if differences are to be handwaved away. (If you think I'm wrong, show why I'm wrong. Don't just act as though the differences I brought up between D&D worlds and our history aren't there. Cliffport, Greysky, Azure City, Nowhere and Somewhere and Anywhere and Someplace Else, all "medieval-level"--because you say so? Unconvincing.)

Further, you haven't addressed the fact that additional death rate in the form of other races wanting carnage requires - the occasional Raise or resurrection notwithstanding - a substantially higher birth rate to hold even.
Is that a similarity with the real medieval world, then? I don't remember reading about orcs in our history.

Whether or not analyzing the actual world presented in OotS arrives at, "A high birth rate should be desired" is beyond the scope of my interest, especially since I consider the starting line you're choosing--"It's a medieval world"--sufficiently off the mark that I would consider anywhere you navigated from there flawed. We've been told that contraception spells exist. As I said a while ago, if you think they're an "only if you're actually a wizard (and not a sorcerer)" thing we simply disagree, and if you think they don't exist at all because your reasoning about medieval-level societies tells you they shouldn't, you should take it up with Rich. My last post was addressed to the flaws of the text I quoted, and that's all. We're not talking about whether two medieval peasants would have and use birth control; we're talking about a high-level adventurer and a law student from the Elemental Plane of Air.

[Serebii]

Well, we don't get a close enough view to be at all sure.

Wait, did you WANT a closer view?:smalleek:

[Ozymandias9]

Well, Haley's an adventurer in every location we've been shown in the world so far. But, I suppose, anything can look like a medieval society if differences are to be handwaved away. (If you think I'm wrong, show why I'm wrong. Don't just act as though the differences I brought up between D&D worlds and our history aren't there. Cliffport, Greysky, Azure City, Nowhere and Somewhere and Anywhere and Someplace Else, all "medieval-level"--because you say so? Unconvincing.)

The setting clearly isn't even a reasonable simulacrum of the western medieval period, but there are certainly base elements that were inspired from there. There are guilds (thief, barbarian, etc.) which was a tradition that arose in europe in the medieval period. There's a presumption that the space between cities is inherently lawless enough that a camp of bandits can subsist there unchallenged by legitimate authority. Political system of Azure city is inherently feudal, which (while representing a different period in the history of the society of which Azure City is based) is something that is linked in the western tradition with the medieval period. The list goes on.

What is and is not a reasonable demographic assumption to make from these facts is a more difficult topic to tackle.

[Snake-Aes]

The setting clearly isn't even a reasonable simulacrum of the western medieval period, but there are certainly base elements that were inspired from there. There are guilds (thief, barbarian, etc.) which was a tradition that arose in europe in the medieval period. There's a presumption that the space between cities is inherently lawless enough that a camp of bandits can subsist there unchallenged by legitimate authority. Political system of Azure city is inherently feudal, which (while representing a different period in the history of the society of which Azure City is based) is something that is linked in the western tradition with the medieval period. The list goes on.

What is and is not a reasonable demographic assumption to make from these facts is a more difficult topic to tackle.

The feudal system in Japan is quite ancient, actually. It lasted around 700 years and started only a century or so after it's western version.

[LurkerInPlayground]

The setting clearly isn't even a reasonable simulacrum of the western medieval period, but there are certainly base elements that were inspired from there.
It's almost as if OotS and D&D are absurd fantasy pastiches.

[Snake-Aes]

It's almost as if OotS and D&D are absurd fantasy pastiches.

Less complaining, more singing at the dragon, LurkerInPlayground. Our wizard is almost done conjuring a fiendish servant

[Optimystik]

Less complaining, more singing at the dragon, LurkerInPlayground. Our wizard is almost done conjuring a fiendish servant

But the skill points! Where do we assign all the skill points???

[Ozymandias9]

The feudal system in Japan is quite ancient, actually. It lasted around 700 years and started only a century or so after it's western version.

Feudal Japan is usually marked as starting in the 12th century CE, beginning in the Kamakura period. Because we're looking at the establishment of a system particular to a fairly isolated country, its actually relatively easy: the date which the period begins is almost always held to be somewhere between the Hogen Rebellion and the Genpei War.

In contrast, the rise of Feudalism in the west is a far more problematic thing to pin down. The system built out of the decline of Rome in the west in the 5th century CE and built gradually as elements of of civilization adapted to the lack of interconnection that it brought. Protofeudalism and particularization are often held to date back as far as the 7th century CE in some areas of Europe (particularly Spain).

When you see 11th century France as a given example (which is presumably what you're referring too with a century before Japanese feudalism) it's typically used as reference to when the High medieval period is held to have begun, which noted as a fully entrenched and dominant feudal system coupled with the reemergence of urban centers.

[skim172]

The environment isn't "medieval" or "feudal," so much as "fantasy," which is based on nothing so much as the romanticization of the feudal era which emerged in the Renaissance and the period following.

In the same way, the common concept of feudal Japan - samurai and all - is based primarily on the romanticization that began after feudal Japan crumbled and continues into modern day.

When you come down to it, no D&D world makes sense in a realistic universe. What sane noble would allow armed adventurers to gather in groups within their holdings? Such a heavily-armed group could be outlaws, assassins, or a raiding party. Only an irresponsible lord would not have his roads constantly monitored and patrolled, stopping all suspicious-looking humanoids. Especially considering the enormous amount of dangerous and incredibly powerful monsters that roam the countryside, who dine mainly on human.

Which, if you think about it, challenges the thought that civilization could ever be established, much less flourish.

Which, in a roundabout way, brings me to Roy and Celia. Their relationship more or less challenges our ideas of the concept of "species." That they could find one another attractive, much less create a child, is a biological impossibility. It's not even that their genetic structure is different, one of them is a construct of another plane of existence.

But, you know what? It's a fantasy. More importantly, it's fiction. And it's a good story.

So my nitpickiness takes a back seat and my suspension of disbelief rides shotgun.

[Mugen Nightgale]

It's called Planetouched it would be an Air Genasi. It's a common race(enough to be put in the playable races).

[Rotipher]

One of my characters actually once had to fight a Half-Dragon Black Pudding.

Yeah, I shut down any contemplations in my mind on how that was even possible long ago.


Weird, indeed. Especially considering how black puddings don't even mate with each other to breed, they just split in half...

Come to think of it, do we even know if sylphs can reproduce at all? They seem to be a One Gender Race, so maybe they're spontaneously generated on their home plane by the forces of Air. Alternately, they might produce baby sylphs (and only baby sylphs) while mating with males of other species ... which would mean that the Greenhilt name may soon die out, as Celia and Roy could produce only daughters.

[baerdith]

While it seems that, in 3.5 rules at least, humans can breed with almost everything, three I haven't seen are dwarves, halflings and gnomes. I guess you could slap on a half-human template to those (which leaves the door open to wizard-did-it), but I've always wondered why if half-orcs are so common, these aren't at least mentioned. From the comic, Belkar mates with humans. Can he impregnate them? What about elves? Or orcs and dwarves? Or gnomes and halflings?

I was in a campaign many moons ago where we had 1/2 Dwarf-1/2 Elves (We called them Dwelves.) They were a torture thing by the big bad. He then tied to cross 1/2 orcs with the Dwelves and got Dorcs.

The campaign sorta went down hill after that.......

[Optimystik]

Come to think of it, do we even know if sylphs can reproduce at all? They seem to be a One Gender Race, so maybe they're spontaneously generated on their home plane by the forces of Air. Alternately, they might produce baby sylphs (and only baby sylphs) while mating with males of other species ... which would mean that the Greenhilt name may soon die out, as Celia and Roy could produce only daughters.

Outsiders with the Air subtype certainly can (the end product being Air Genasi.) Being Medium-Sized is a bonus in Celia's favor.

Besides, there's a male sylph (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0269.html) in the strip :smallwink:

[Thrax]

Weird, indeed. Especially considering how black puddings don't even mate with each other to breed, they just split in half...

Come to think of it, do we even know if sylphs can reproduce at all? They seem to be a One Gender Race, so maybe they're spontaneously generated on their home plane by the forces of Air. Alternately, they might produce baby sylphs (and only baby sylphs) while mating with males of other species ... which would mean that the Greenhilt name may soon die out, as Celia and Roy could produce only daughters.

Even if sylphs were one gender race, RPGs normally turn things out in different manner. Like Harpies - when they mate with males of other species, daughter is always a harpy, and son is always whatever father was (and thus normally killed). Even if sylphs were only female, that is how it would probably turn out.

[Olorin93]

When you come down to it, no D&D world makes sense in a realistic universe. What sane noble would allow armed adventurers to gather in groups within their holdings?

Certainly not the King of Cormyr! In the Forgotten Realms, armed adventurers in Cormyr are required to have a Charter issued by the King or a suitably-designated official. Others are treated as outlaws and likely bandits.

Although, in the 1400s DR (otherwise knows as 4th Edition), this has become largely a formality and charters are issued by clerks as easily as, say, fishing licenses in our world. This is the result of someone at WotC deciding that the Realms had become too civilized and that it needed to return to a situation where lawless brigands can roam unchallenged in the lands between cities, and monsters lurk in the hills eating mostly human (wait, that sounds familiar :-)).

[Red XIV]

Come to think of it, do we even know if sylphs can reproduce at all? They seem to be a One Gender Race, so maybe they're spontaneously generated on their home plane by the forces of Air. Alternately, they might produce baby sylphs (and only baby sylphs) while mating with males of other species ... which would mean that the Greenhilt name may soon die out, as Celia and Roy could produce only daughters.
Celia had a sylph boyfriend that she broke up with, and her mother has been hounding her for grandchildren. So yes, they can reproduce.

And given the pattern of the Greenhilt family, it's most likely that they'll have a son who's uninterested in melee combat and prefers magic.

[Snake-Aes]

Feudal Japan is usually marked as starting in the 12th century CE, beginning in the Kamakura period. Because we're looking at the establishment of a system particular to a fairly isolated country, its actually relatively easy: the date which the period begins is almost always held to be somewhere between the Hogen Rebellion and the Genpei War.

In contrast, the rise of Feudalism in the west is a far more problematic thing to pin down. The system built out of the decline of Rome in the west in the 5th century CE and built gradually as elements of of civilization adapted to the lack of interconnection that it brought. Protofeudalism and particularization are often held to date back as far as the 7th century CE in some areas of Europe (particularly Spain).

When you see 11th century France as a given example (which is presumably what you're referring too with a century before Japanese feudalism) it's typically used as reference to when the High medieval period is held to have begun, which noted as a fully entrenched and dominant feudal system coupled with the reemergence of urban centers.Yes, I was thinking of about year 1200~. They are much closer to what you tend to see on medieval fantasy, since cities are bustling there, with their hundred thousand or so inhabitants, and money is actually useful.

[hamishspence]

I'd date it later (rapiers, full plate armour, cannons (Stormwrack) all point to Renaissance more than to 1200.

also, D&D settings tend to have a much more enlightened view on gender roles than historical settings do (possibly because its more fun that way).

[Boaromir]

"How is babby formed?"


SUP DAWG, I herd u didn't liek forming babby, but I accidentally in your base.

[BlueWizard]

In D&D anything can happen. And I believe all fey or elemental types, even dragons can reproduce crossing genetic lines.

[Lord of Syntax]

SUP DAWG, I herd u didn't liek forming babby, but I accidentally in your base.

I think this is the meme equivalent of that weird babybonination in basketcase :smallamused::smalltongue:

[waterpenguin43]

If there can be half-dragons, there can be half-sylphs.

[Terrace]

I was in a campaign many moons ago where we had 1/2 Dwarf-1/2 Elves (We called them Dwelves.) They were a torture thing by the big bad. He then tied to cross 1/2 orcs with the Dwelves and got Dorcs.

The campaign sorta went down hill after that.......

That is made of win. I guess he didn't consider the name too closely...

Big Bad: I UNLEASH MY NEWEST MINIONS! DORCS!

[golentan]

Yes, Roi and Seely can haz babby.


I'd date it later (rapiers, full plate armour, cannons (Stormwrack) all point to Renaissance more than to 1200.

also, D&D settings tend to have a much more enlightened view on gender roles than historical settings do (possibly because its more fun that way).

Those cannons are more in line with what you'd expect in the late 1300s than with renaissance firing pieces. As for full plate, depending on what's meant that could be anything from the 13th century to the 18th. Rapiers are later (16th-17th centuries), for sure, but this has less to do with tech level and more to do with the concurrent rise of firearms rendering heavy armor a hindrance on the battlefield.

Societal roles have little to do with tech level, so let's table the treatment of women as a topic likely to get people riled up. Tech level is best measured by the average wealth of the populace (in this case stuck buying food and non-magic, ~14th century level tools), and morbidity/mortality rates. The latter is weird, in that DnD has lower disease and starvation m/m through the presence of adepts, but higher than the already disturbing trends for loss through combat. With the same degree of feudal infighting combined with rampaging orcs, things get fairly ugly.

Nobles and adventurers get a different bag by virtue of having the wealth to afford magic, sometimes even in ways that benefit their subjects. But the average person is still making coppers or silvers a day, and lives in a hovel. DnD tech makes no sense (as the magic economy TRULY IS based on killing things), but that's the truth of the matter. OOTs is more fantastic, and I think that's a good thing, as higher standards of living are something to be worked for.

It is a pastiche, but that doesn't mean that one side has to talk about that portion of the pastiche while the other talks about this portion. Women are treated differently, but that's not essential for a medieval feudal setup. Magic is available, but again that has at least a tolerance level within the setup. So shame on you adventurers who drop 100,000 on a sword that has that extra +1, when that could feed your nation and raise an army for a year. Ignore gold disparities and the fate of spain following the influx of gold. Shame on you. (It really does make no sense, I tried modeling a realistic economy once using dnd rules and the result is that society collapses and the world is bad).