View Full Version : 3.5 Cleric of fail

2009-07-21, 11:42 PM
My cleric's entire spell list seems to have been invalidated, since spells don't stack with item enchantments and everyone in my party has better enchantments then I can give through spells. What spells do full clerics typically cast to be useful to a mid-high level group?

Sinfire Titan
2009-07-21, 11:44 PM
Here you go. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=420.0)

2009-07-21, 11:54 PM
Mass Conviction(3): +2 + (1/6CLs) Morale Bonus to all saves. 10 mins/Level. Extend this one and you get a couple hours out of it. Most items don't grant morale bonuses, so this is quite handy.

Mass Energy Resistance(3): +30 Energy Resistance to a given type. Keep this prepared and throw it out when you found out what kind of energy you're up against. 10mins/Level. Another great one to extend.

Mass Shield of Faith(4): As the standard version, but more targets. Likely grants a larger deflection bonus than they can afford on rings. 1/min a level means it's short lived. However it's great if you know danger is coming.

Resurgence(1): Gives them a new saving throw against ongoing effect. Always handy.

Summon Monster N(Any Level): Not everything you do has to be a buff. Getting extra units on the field is always a huge plus..

Recitation(4): Very Short Duration. Rounds/Level. However if you have DMM it's an awesome buff to persist. +2 to basically everything for everyone. +3 for you, and anyone who shares your religion. Runs of the Luck bonus, which is fairly rare.

Righteous Wrath of the Faithful(5): +3 Morale to Melee Attack/Damage. Another short-lived one good for persisting.

Magic Vestment(3): Save your group "Teh bigg buxx" by using this in place of actual +s on armor. 1hr/Level means it's up all day with extend rod.

Greater Magic Weapon(4): See Magic Vestment. Wizards are better at this.

Divine Power(4), Righteous Might (5): HULK SMASH!

Magic Circle Against Alignment(3): Another 10/min level spell. Hedges out all attempts at might control. Might need a separate casting to get people who hang out in back.. the radius is small.

Omen of Peril(1), Augury(2), Divination(4), Commune(5): Not flashy, but as they say "Knowing is half the battle". Don't underestimate the power of information.

Divine Insight(2): +15 to a Single Check you make in the next 1hr/level. This almost always winds up becoming relevant somehow.

There are tons more, that's just what I remembered off the top of my head.

2009-07-22, 08:10 AM
Thanks for the great responses.

2009-07-22, 10:06 AM
Be careful with the ones with durations measured in rounds or 1 min/level. It's a trap! Often you'll do more damage overall by, say, attacking during that round than being buffed for [length of combat minus 1 round]. Or even if you come out ahead (in a nice long combat, for example), it's only by a little, and you might be better off with another spell. The ones listed with longer durations are very nice though. And preparing a couple short duration spells can be useful if you expect a buffing round before a major fight.

As a cleric I'd also carry a million low level scrolls of fix X. Be ready for any ailment the party might finally face 3 weeks from now without bogging down your spell list. And get a wand of cure light wounds or lesser vigor for between battle healing.

Magic vestment suffers from exactly the problem you described: Your party can get better buffs much earlier from items, and it's cheap. But while they might be able to get magic weapon enhancements faster than greater magic weapon progresses, encourage them to get weapon damage enchantments instead (holy, shocking, merciful, etc.). Then you can give them an enhancement bonus on top of those enchantments. Heck, while we're on this topic clerics make excellent magic item crafters since they have a lot of the required spells. Especially if you took the good domain for holy smite (holy enchantment). You could be the one providing all these item upgrades.

2009-07-22, 10:11 AM
Be careful with the ones with durations measured in rounds or 1 min/level.

I agree that spells with durations measured rounds/Level are things to be very wary of. Righteous Might/Divine Power can still be fun though, even without persisting.

However spells with durations measured in minutes/level can be fairly reliable in non-ambush situations. Especially at mid-high levels paired with extend. If you know you're going into hazardous environment you can throw them up and have a good 20+ Minutes for them to come into play. Not enough to cover wilderness exploration but enough when you're poking around a creepy looking cave at the map level of exploration. This doesn't apply if you group stops to take 20 on a search check on every tile of course but I don't think that's really the norm.

Omen of Peril can help with this as it can narrow down the possibility to of a threat to a 1-hour window. Even a failed spell can be helpful if gives "Danger" and "Great Danger" since you know some kind of danger is coming only the degree of danger is up in the air. Only "Saftey" and "(Great) Danger" results aren't terribly helpful. With 80%+ success rates and 1/3rd of the failure messages being helpful it's pretty reliable.

At any rate once you have result telling you danger is around you can throw up the minute/level buffs at the first sign of something being off. A dark spooky corner you can't see around, a locked door. Fresh corpses on the floor. Sometimes you'll miss, but often you'll have the stuff in place when the battle strikes. Heck if it's a particular nasty place you're in you can hit 2 or 3encounters with the same 1min/level buff.

2009-07-22, 11:15 AM
I disagree with the assessment that round/level buffs are a trap. At high levels, that's like 2 minutes. You totally can cast them before battle. Second: being a buffer is NEVER a bad thing. Your party will ALWAYS appreciate more buffs.

I suggest that if you find yourself without enough targets to target with your buffs, make some! Cast Summon Monster 9! That's good for 1 to 5 extra targets for all of your buffs. Which is, coincidentally, 1 to X extra attacks, which is 1 to X extra damage.

Tar Palantir
2009-07-22, 11:27 AM
Also, a lovely little spell to have, just in case, is Panacea from the Spell Compendium. It cures literally dozens of conditions, ranging from blindness to poison to paralysis, and heals a small amount of health, all for a 4th level spell slot. At least carry a scroll or two. Never go without it.

As for combat buffs, they've been pretty well explained, altough I feel I should point out that Widen Spell can be used on Magic Circle Against X, as well as a number of other buffs or discriminating area effect spells, to compensate for small area of effect.

2009-07-22, 11:31 AM
Oh, how could I forget:

Revivify(5): You can either keep this on a scroll, or keep it prepared. In other case it's a very good "In case of emergency" spell. Level loss is horrid, this can prevent it.

Status, Greater(4): This lets you cast spells level 1/2 touch spells on an ally so long as they're on the same plane as you. Also auto-diagnoses any conditions they be under. Very good if an ally drops to negatives with no health around. Less useful when big monsters are sending you from half to -30 in one hit, but otherwise a great death-preventer.

Close Wounds(2): Another death preventer. Immediate Action short-range heal. 1d4+5 buffer against death. Once again, not going to help if they're hitting -30, but it will save them if they're hitting -10 to -16, more if you're feeling lucky or have healing-oriented feats.

Delay Death(4): More situational than the others, but still worth nothing. Can sort of act like revivify (cast on ally who is getting beat up faster than they could possible be saved). They to negatives and stay there, not-dead until you can get them healing after the mess is over. Be aware that it's kind of an action sink and therefore a desperate move.

2009-07-22, 11:32 AM
I agree - at high levels the duration of round/level buffs isn't much of a problem. Action cost on the other hand... if you spend too much time buffing yourself, the fight will be almost over before you're ready to go.

If you're lvl 14-15+, buying a normal metamagic rod of quicken (75,500 gp) becomes a possibility. During round 1, cast 'Righteous Might' and 'Divine Power' (one of them quickend from the rod) and then its time for some action.

/Edit: Wait... nevermind that. Buy a couple of Belts of Battle from the MiC instead (pg. 73).
Round #1: Blow 2 charges for a extra standard action to cast Righteous Might & Divine Power.
Round #2: Blow 1 charge for a move action and make a full attack.
After the fight: Stuff the Belt of Battle into the backpack, put on a new one with full charges.

Its better than the metamagic rod and it costs alot less (75000 gp vs 3x 12000 gp = 36000 gp).

Thats all assuming you don't have DMM:Persist... if you do, you can use rods of extend on your persisted buffs to make them last 48 hours.

2009-07-22, 11:35 AM
I disagree with the assessment that round/level buffs are a trap. At high levels, that's like 2 minutes. You totally can cast them before battle.

You sure can, and I already recommended preparing a couple to do so when the opportunity comes. But not all battles have a buffing round, and it's a trap to cast them during the battle. What, did you think I also meant minute/level spells wouldn't outlast a battle??