Break
2009-07-23, 01:14 AM
Fair warning - possible TL;DR material. And that'll be your only one.
Hello, playground. This is my first serious shot at homebrew in general, much less for 4E. Be gentle.
I'm planning to basically tweak the Avenger class chassis, then basically rewrite all the powers. I'm not doing this because I hate the Avenger - quite the opposite, really - but because I feel the Avenger as it stands doesn't really capture the feel of what the class should be like. Though homebrew in 4E trims things down quite a bit, homebrewing entire classes out of whole cloth is one of the things that was made more difficult in the edition transition.
And, frankly, I'm not going to get this something this large done without a good deal of help. So, I turn to the playground for assistance.
Here are the problems I feel should be fixed (and feel free to tell me if I'm off-base with any of this) -
* Censures are far too difficult to activate, and the powers don't actually synergize with them. This, on its own, wouldn't be so bad - in fact, it's pretty interesting that avengers would have to do more than a rogue in order for then to make the most of their damage potential. As it stands, though, they can't really set their censures up at all; in fact, Pursuit and Retribution avengers are basically at the mercy of the DM when it comes to getting their bonuses. Bottom line, other strikers don't have nearly as many problems doing their thing as Avengers do, and there's really no reason for that.
* WotC over-valued Oath of Enmity, and left Avengers with a poor power selection as a result. Is it good? Certainly. Being able to roll two d20s against an isolated enemy then picking the result is a powerful ability. The problem comes in when you realize, that's really all they have going for them.
To balance this out, WotC toned down their powers in order to balance out the increased accuracy and critical chance. Unfortunately for WotC, this doesn't work because multiclassing exists. Currently, the optimal thing to do with an avenger is to take what's good and discard the rest - you multiclass as soon as possible, replace as many of your avenger powers as you can, and abuse your new toys with Oath of Enmity, taking Eternal Seeker to throw out the last of your powers. Frankly, when the optimal thing to do for a class is to use as little of it as possible, there's a problem; the class should be able to stand on its own.
* Their paragon paths bite. Pretty self-explanatory; probably for the same reason why the power selection does, as well.
* They're supposed to be secondary controllers, but don't actually do much controlling. Also self-explanatory.
* Damage is pretty low, especially for a striker. Take note of how long it takes for them to break 3[W] on dailies. Sure, it seems they go through a nice range because they have 7 and 9[W] dailies at level 29, but that's only because the [W] amount increases sharply at the last levels, instead of smoothly throughout.
Here are my proposed (vague) solutions -
* For Censures, they're getting rewritten, and the powers will be mostly scrapped and rewritten to be more tactically interesting.
- For Censure of Pursuit, the initial idea was to let the damage bonus apply for forced movement as well. However, it'd simply be better to leave the censure itself alone, and rewrite the powers so they work with it. Expect powers not unlike a reverse Come and Get It, Lion of Battle, powers that force or encourage the enemy to move (not forced movement!) by perhaps giving them a small benefit to doing so, and so on.
- Retribution, I'm least sure of. The initial idea was to let it apply on misses, but only giving half of your Intelligence modifier as a damage bonus each time. The math didn't work out on this one, so I've got only one idea; the Avenger doesn't really have any controller abilities, but has abilities that are defender-like. Taking damage and and dealing more back as a result seems to be defendery enough, and taking it a step further could be interesting - thus, I was thinking of allowing their powers to mark, and letting them deal their extra damage based on how many marks are active that round.
- Unity's mechanic is fine, but the problem is that you're rarely going to have more than two people sticking a non-solo enemy, including you. This means, early on, you're rarely going to get more than the bonus for one ally, which translates to a piddly +1 to damage in heroic. That's silly, and I don't really have an elegant solution for it, but my stopgap solution is merely to let yourself count as your own ally only for the purposes of the censure.
* For powers, they're getting rewritten. Examples of the ideas I have so far are below, with a couple of tweaks to existing powers, along with a couple of original ones from others. Notable is the fact that they don't have many minor action, immediate action, or stance powers - these will be added.
* For paragon paths, I have only two ideas, one for the Pursuitvenger, and one for the Retrivenger.
- The Pursuit avenger's enemy movement powers seem perfect for fear effects, and some of their powers will indeed have that keyword; thus, this default Pursuit PP's flavor will revolve around fear and the void, with their level 16 path ability granting them the ability to ignore fear immunity.
- The Retribution avenger would take the avenger-as-defender idea one step further, and their powers would supplement that by providing interrupts when someone attacks one of your allies, or even breaks the conditions that make your Oath function.
* For the secondary controller problem, they'll be made secondary defenders instead. Retribution Avengers may go as far as to be equal parts striker and defender - allowing the role system to dictate what does what and create expectations of what a class is supposed to do was something that I was never much of a fan of.
Here's what I feel does things right -
* The Oath itself. It captures the flavor of a class that's supposed to drag a target into a dark corner, shank their screaming form repeatedly until they stop moving, discard the corpse, and move on to their next victim perfectly.
* Certain powers that isolate the enemy, opening them up for the Oath. Powers like Phase Duel, Splinter the Formation, and Sequestering Strike perform this function well, and Avengers certainly need them.
* The idea that Avengers should create "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations. Although avengers can't really do this well as written, the idea inherent in the Censure of Pursuit is sound - make a hard choice. Is running away really worth the risk of what'll happen if I catch up?
* The utility powers. They're fine as is.
And here are my design goals (which are probably as vague as my solutions) -
* The class should be able to stand on its own. Multiclassing out should not be mandatory.
* Being mechanically viable is not enough. The powers should be interesting in flavor as well as interesting to use.
* Powers should synergize. Forks should be possible. Tactics should open up with intelligent power use.
* There should actually be a choice as to which power you should pick at each level. 4E is rife with examples of the illusion of choice - why would any level 13 barbarian pick Blade Whirlwind when you've got the awesomeness that is Storm of Blades? There's always two paths to take - simply pick the power that matches your secondary or chosen class feature. Minimize these easy decisions as much as possible. The decision of which power to add to your suite should not only be meaningful - it should actually be a choice to begin with.
And, a couple of concerns -
* What about implements? I never really liked the idea of classes using both weapons and implements, as these classes get unnecessarily screwed by 4E's wealth-by-level system. I found the swordmage's weapon-as-implement to be an elegant solution; there's also the possibility of dropping implements altogether. Either way, a solution has to be reached before we can begin writing many powers.
* For all this talk about buffing the Avenger, what should its weaknesses be? Its main current ones are fine - the avenger has to be careful when engaging the oath target, because you're out there alone without support most of the time - the oath target needs to be isolated, after all. There's also the problem that avengers have difficulty qualifying for weapon feats, due to their main and secondary stats not matching up with that of the usual weapon-user, which I think is a fair trade for their increased accuracy. However, I feel that these weaknesses aren't enough. Any ideas?
Here's a few example powers to demonstrate what I've got so far -
Level 1 Encounter Prayers
Angelic Alacrity Avenger Attack 1
You focus divine energy through your body to gain uncanny speed as you make your attack.
Encounter - Divine, Weapon
Standard Action, Melee weapon
Effect: Before the primary and secondary attacks, you shift 2 squares.
Censure of Pursuit: The number of squares you shift before one of the attacks is equal to 1 + your Dexterity modifier, with the other being 2 squares.
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage. Make a secondary attack.
Secondary Target: The same target or a different one
Secondary Attack: Wisdom vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage.
Level 1 Daily Prayers
Shared Madness Avenger Attack 1
The wrath of your god sears the mind of one foe and echoes to assault another enemy as well.
Encounter - Divine, Implement, Psychic
Standard Action, Ranged 10
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: 1d10 + Wisdom modifier psychic damage.
Effect: Until the end of your next turn, a different target within line of sight takes half of the damage you deal to the initial target as psychic damage.
Level 5 Daily Prayers
Face Your Judgment Avenger Attack 5 (Thanks to Starsinger for writing this one up.)
flavor text here
Daily - Divine, Implement
Standard Action, Close Burst 10
Target: Your Oath of enmity target.
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: The target takes 3d6 damage at the end of its turn if it does not end adjacent to you.
Sustain Minor: The effect persists.
Centure of Retribution: The damage is of a type the target has the largest vulnerability to.
Level 25 Daily Prayers
Blindside Stance Avenger Attack 25 (Thanks to Gralamin for writing this one up.)
Just as the opponent's blade touches your robe, you reappear behind them with blade in hand.
Daily - Divine, Stance, Weapon
Minor Action Personal
Effect: You enter into the Blindside Stance. When hit by a melee attack made by your Oath of Enmity target while in this stance, you may, as an immediate interrupt, teleport to a square adjacent to them and make a secondary attack. The attack that triggers this attack is considered to have missed.
Secondary Target: Oath of Enmity Target
Secondary Attack: Wisdom vs AC
Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage.
Powers With No Final Levels Assigned to Them Yet
Lion's Charge Avenger Attack X (low level. Probably 1)
You run your target through with your weapon, and push him into a more favorable position. Even the thick of battle cannot stop your assault; this is the price he pays for not coming willingly.
Encounter - Divine, Weapon
Standard Action, Melee Weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. AC
Hit: You move a number of squares equal to your Wisdom modifier while pushing your target the same distance. You must remain adjacent to the target. Your movement provokes opportunity attacks. The enemy takes 2[W] + Wisdom modifier damage at the end of the charge. For every opportunity attack your movement provoked, the target takes 2 extra damage. If the target's forced movement is stopped by a solid object, it is also dazed until the end of your next turn.
Encircling Strike Avenger Attack X (probably 7)
As you quickly whirl around your opponent to find his weaknesses, you deliver a quick strike to his back.
Encounter - Divine, Weapon
Standard Action, Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. AC
Special: Every other space adjacent to the target besides the one you occupy must be free. You have combat advantage for this attack.
Hit: 3[W] + Wisdom modifier damage, and your attacks score a critical hit on a roll of 17-20 until the end of your next turn.
With this, I humbly submit my request for assistance to the Playground. I can place this up on Google Docs for ease of editing, and can give out my AIM, MSN, or usual IRC haunt if collaboration would be easier that way. Many thanks in advance.
Hello, playground. This is my first serious shot at homebrew in general, much less for 4E. Be gentle.
I'm planning to basically tweak the Avenger class chassis, then basically rewrite all the powers. I'm not doing this because I hate the Avenger - quite the opposite, really - but because I feel the Avenger as it stands doesn't really capture the feel of what the class should be like. Though homebrew in 4E trims things down quite a bit, homebrewing entire classes out of whole cloth is one of the things that was made more difficult in the edition transition.
And, frankly, I'm not going to get this something this large done without a good deal of help. So, I turn to the playground for assistance.
Here are the problems I feel should be fixed (and feel free to tell me if I'm off-base with any of this) -
* Censures are far too difficult to activate, and the powers don't actually synergize with them. This, on its own, wouldn't be so bad - in fact, it's pretty interesting that avengers would have to do more than a rogue in order for then to make the most of their damage potential. As it stands, though, they can't really set their censures up at all; in fact, Pursuit and Retribution avengers are basically at the mercy of the DM when it comes to getting their bonuses. Bottom line, other strikers don't have nearly as many problems doing their thing as Avengers do, and there's really no reason for that.
* WotC over-valued Oath of Enmity, and left Avengers with a poor power selection as a result. Is it good? Certainly. Being able to roll two d20s against an isolated enemy then picking the result is a powerful ability. The problem comes in when you realize, that's really all they have going for them.
To balance this out, WotC toned down their powers in order to balance out the increased accuracy and critical chance. Unfortunately for WotC, this doesn't work because multiclassing exists. Currently, the optimal thing to do with an avenger is to take what's good and discard the rest - you multiclass as soon as possible, replace as many of your avenger powers as you can, and abuse your new toys with Oath of Enmity, taking Eternal Seeker to throw out the last of your powers. Frankly, when the optimal thing to do for a class is to use as little of it as possible, there's a problem; the class should be able to stand on its own.
* Their paragon paths bite. Pretty self-explanatory; probably for the same reason why the power selection does, as well.
* They're supposed to be secondary controllers, but don't actually do much controlling. Also self-explanatory.
* Damage is pretty low, especially for a striker. Take note of how long it takes for them to break 3[W] on dailies. Sure, it seems they go through a nice range because they have 7 and 9[W] dailies at level 29, but that's only because the [W] amount increases sharply at the last levels, instead of smoothly throughout.
Here are my proposed (vague) solutions -
* For Censures, they're getting rewritten, and the powers will be mostly scrapped and rewritten to be more tactically interesting.
- For Censure of Pursuit, the initial idea was to let the damage bonus apply for forced movement as well. However, it'd simply be better to leave the censure itself alone, and rewrite the powers so they work with it. Expect powers not unlike a reverse Come and Get It, Lion of Battle, powers that force or encourage the enemy to move (not forced movement!) by perhaps giving them a small benefit to doing so, and so on.
- Retribution, I'm least sure of. The initial idea was to let it apply on misses, but only giving half of your Intelligence modifier as a damage bonus each time. The math didn't work out on this one, so I've got only one idea; the Avenger doesn't really have any controller abilities, but has abilities that are defender-like. Taking damage and and dealing more back as a result seems to be defendery enough, and taking it a step further could be interesting - thus, I was thinking of allowing their powers to mark, and letting them deal their extra damage based on how many marks are active that round.
- Unity's mechanic is fine, but the problem is that you're rarely going to have more than two people sticking a non-solo enemy, including you. This means, early on, you're rarely going to get more than the bonus for one ally, which translates to a piddly +1 to damage in heroic. That's silly, and I don't really have an elegant solution for it, but my stopgap solution is merely to let yourself count as your own ally only for the purposes of the censure.
* For powers, they're getting rewritten. Examples of the ideas I have so far are below, with a couple of tweaks to existing powers, along with a couple of original ones from others. Notable is the fact that they don't have many minor action, immediate action, or stance powers - these will be added.
* For paragon paths, I have only two ideas, one for the Pursuitvenger, and one for the Retrivenger.
- The Pursuit avenger's enemy movement powers seem perfect for fear effects, and some of their powers will indeed have that keyword; thus, this default Pursuit PP's flavor will revolve around fear and the void, with their level 16 path ability granting them the ability to ignore fear immunity.
- The Retribution avenger would take the avenger-as-defender idea one step further, and their powers would supplement that by providing interrupts when someone attacks one of your allies, or even breaks the conditions that make your Oath function.
* For the secondary controller problem, they'll be made secondary defenders instead. Retribution Avengers may go as far as to be equal parts striker and defender - allowing the role system to dictate what does what and create expectations of what a class is supposed to do was something that I was never much of a fan of.
Here's what I feel does things right -
* The Oath itself. It captures the flavor of a class that's supposed to drag a target into a dark corner, shank their screaming form repeatedly until they stop moving, discard the corpse, and move on to their next victim perfectly.
* Certain powers that isolate the enemy, opening them up for the Oath. Powers like Phase Duel, Splinter the Formation, and Sequestering Strike perform this function well, and Avengers certainly need them.
* The idea that Avengers should create "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations. Although avengers can't really do this well as written, the idea inherent in the Censure of Pursuit is sound - make a hard choice. Is running away really worth the risk of what'll happen if I catch up?
* The utility powers. They're fine as is.
And here are my design goals (which are probably as vague as my solutions) -
* The class should be able to stand on its own. Multiclassing out should not be mandatory.
* Being mechanically viable is not enough. The powers should be interesting in flavor as well as interesting to use.
* Powers should synergize. Forks should be possible. Tactics should open up with intelligent power use.
* There should actually be a choice as to which power you should pick at each level. 4E is rife with examples of the illusion of choice - why would any level 13 barbarian pick Blade Whirlwind when you've got the awesomeness that is Storm of Blades? There's always two paths to take - simply pick the power that matches your secondary or chosen class feature. Minimize these easy decisions as much as possible. The decision of which power to add to your suite should not only be meaningful - it should actually be a choice to begin with.
And, a couple of concerns -
* What about implements? I never really liked the idea of classes using both weapons and implements, as these classes get unnecessarily screwed by 4E's wealth-by-level system. I found the swordmage's weapon-as-implement to be an elegant solution; there's also the possibility of dropping implements altogether. Either way, a solution has to be reached before we can begin writing many powers.
* For all this talk about buffing the Avenger, what should its weaknesses be? Its main current ones are fine - the avenger has to be careful when engaging the oath target, because you're out there alone without support most of the time - the oath target needs to be isolated, after all. There's also the problem that avengers have difficulty qualifying for weapon feats, due to their main and secondary stats not matching up with that of the usual weapon-user, which I think is a fair trade for their increased accuracy. However, I feel that these weaknesses aren't enough. Any ideas?
Here's a few example powers to demonstrate what I've got so far -
Level 1 Encounter Prayers
Angelic Alacrity Avenger Attack 1
You focus divine energy through your body to gain uncanny speed as you make your attack.
Encounter - Divine, Weapon
Standard Action, Melee weapon
Effect: Before the primary and secondary attacks, you shift 2 squares.
Censure of Pursuit: The number of squares you shift before one of the attacks is equal to 1 + your Dexterity modifier, with the other being 2 squares.
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage. Make a secondary attack.
Secondary Target: The same target or a different one
Secondary Attack: Wisdom vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage.
Level 1 Daily Prayers
Shared Madness Avenger Attack 1
The wrath of your god sears the mind of one foe and echoes to assault another enemy as well.
Encounter - Divine, Implement, Psychic
Standard Action, Ranged 10
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: 1d10 + Wisdom modifier psychic damage.
Effect: Until the end of your next turn, a different target within line of sight takes half of the damage you deal to the initial target as psychic damage.
Level 5 Daily Prayers
Face Your Judgment Avenger Attack 5 (Thanks to Starsinger for writing this one up.)
flavor text here
Daily - Divine, Implement
Standard Action, Close Burst 10
Target: Your Oath of enmity target.
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: The target takes 3d6 damage at the end of its turn if it does not end adjacent to you.
Sustain Minor: The effect persists.
Centure of Retribution: The damage is of a type the target has the largest vulnerability to.
Level 25 Daily Prayers
Blindside Stance Avenger Attack 25 (Thanks to Gralamin for writing this one up.)
Just as the opponent's blade touches your robe, you reappear behind them with blade in hand.
Daily - Divine, Stance, Weapon
Minor Action Personal
Effect: You enter into the Blindside Stance. When hit by a melee attack made by your Oath of Enmity target while in this stance, you may, as an immediate interrupt, teleport to a square adjacent to them and make a secondary attack. The attack that triggers this attack is considered to have missed.
Secondary Target: Oath of Enmity Target
Secondary Attack: Wisdom vs AC
Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage.
Powers With No Final Levels Assigned to Them Yet
Lion's Charge Avenger Attack X (low level. Probably 1)
You run your target through with your weapon, and push him into a more favorable position. Even the thick of battle cannot stop your assault; this is the price he pays for not coming willingly.
Encounter - Divine, Weapon
Standard Action, Melee Weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. AC
Hit: You move a number of squares equal to your Wisdom modifier while pushing your target the same distance. You must remain adjacent to the target. Your movement provokes opportunity attacks. The enemy takes 2[W] + Wisdom modifier damage at the end of the charge. For every opportunity attack your movement provoked, the target takes 2 extra damage. If the target's forced movement is stopped by a solid object, it is also dazed until the end of your next turn.
Encircling Strike Avenger Attack X (probably 7)
As you quickly whirl around your opponent to find his weaknesses, you deliver a quick strike to his back.
Encounter - Divine, Weapon
Standard Action, Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. AC
Special: Every other space adjacent to the target besides the one you occupy must be free. You have combat advantage for this attack.
Hit: 3[W] + Wisdom modifier damage, and your attacks score a critical hit on a roll of 17-20 until the end of your next turn.
With this, I humbly submit my request for assistance to the Playground. I can place this up on Google Docs for ease of editing, and can give out my AIM, MSN, or usual IRC haunt if collaboration would be easier that way. Many thanks in advance.