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Finn Solomon
2009-07-23, 09:33 AM
Hello everyone, die-hard Browncoat here. I assume that if you clicked on this thread, you're a fellow fan or at least have some knowledge of the Verse and Joss Whedon's creations. I picked up the Serenity Roleplaying game hardcover book about a week ago. To be frank at first I just saw that it was a book and it had Serenity on the cover, and I bought it without thinking. I wouldn't have minded if it turned out to be 100 pages of Jayne eating apples.

I opened the book, and I've got lost in it. It's filled with tons of info and background knowledge and everything I need to create my own campaign and characters and ideas. I've been kind of stuck in a creative rut recently, but the book made my mind open up again. I put it to the tremendous powers of the Verse. Since then I've been coming up with characters and backstories and planets and ships and storylines. It's great!

Anyway, the point of this thread is to discuss the RPG. I've never played an actual, honest-to-God pencil and paper RPG before in my life. What I do know about DnD and the dicechucker culture I've absorbed through osmosis. But now I've got Serenity, I'm going to go buy some dice and rustle up some people to play a game. Even if no one wants to play, well, I still have some pretty cool characters. I'd like to post them up here and see what you guys think of my creations. I'd be right pleased if you do take the time.

derfenrirwolv
2009-07-23, 09:57 AM
Welcome to the world of RPGs. Now that you're a geek, you'll find the need to wear pocket protectors, collect at least 10 pounds of dice, and upgrade to lunux... majahahahahaha...

Nah, seriously, welcome to the hobby. The big thing to remember is that Role playing is a collective story. As the GM, you control the universe, most of the characters, the government, the plots, and everything.. except 4 or so characters. Expect them to need to be lead sometimes, to rush headlong when they should talk, to talk when they should shoot, and to disrupt your carefully laid plans by either figuring things out in the first 30 seconds or staring obvious clues in the face all night.

The biggest advice i can give gm's regardless of system is

1) Know your characters. And i don't just mean that they have a laser with a +3 to hit and does 1d12 damage. Know who they are, what they want, and how far they're willing to go to get there. If your badguy is a methodical planner , he'll have an escape hatch prepared. Thats the thing you need to remember about him after he gets the second or third bullet in him, not when he's about to die.

2) Know the PC's. You need to scale fights to make them challanging but not kill them.

3) Know the PLAYERS. You know, the real world people sitting there? Do they want adventure, exploration, ROLE playing. What do they want? Kill kill death destroy, intriguing plots, moral dilemmas, a fun night in a bar? Some mix of all three? Most groups will have a someone on both ends of the spectrum along with someone thats just there to hang out with you regardless of what you're doing.

caden_varn
2009-07-23, 09:58 AM
I have run a single adventure in Serenity. It was a little while ago, so I don;t remember exactly what the issues were, but I remember that mechanically its a bit flawed. There were some errata around on the net (along with some sample adventures) somewhere if I recall. Probably worth finding them.

It's certainly a fun world to play in - good for die-hard Browncoats as you mentioned :smallsmile:. Best to get a roleplay oriented group rather than a combat oriented one I think though.

Have fun!

olelia
2009-07-23, 10:05 AM
When I played my first game, story wise, was very fun and enjoyable. One of the problems I saw, which they might of changed, is since they had called shot rules I just aimed for 3 rounds and fired for the heart. Most combats ended very quickly.

Totally Guy
2009-07-23, 10:16 AM
I remember one session where we were all in space suits investigating an abandonned ship. The GM said that all 5 of us were peering into the doorway in our matching spacesuits.

5 of us?

1,2,3...4... who's 5?

There was a reaver in a spacesuit but we needed to identify which one of us was him.

Then there was a session where the only thing thing that happened was one player playing the captain roleplayed going spece crazy. And my character had a birthday. It culminated in an epic interparty conflict where eventually the captain lost his life.

Umael
2009-07-23, 10:47 AM
I don't consider myself a Browncoat, but I offer free advice and a good discount on my merchandise to them. Every once in a while, I'll hitch a ride, if our paths are walking the same way.

Having playing a couple of sessions and keeping my ear to the ground, I have a few words of advise, both for roleplaying (& running a game) in general, and Serenity in particular.

First of all, it sounds like you're on the right track. Get some dice, get some paper and pencils, and start making some characters. Also, ask around, talk to some friends, see if they are up to a game.

Alternatively, go looking for people - essentially, make friends, just for your game. I recommend highly your local gaming store (see if they have a bulletin board for posting notices about games, both groups looking for Game Masters and Game Masters looking for groups), websites devoted to RPGs (like this one) or Serenity or both, and your local colleges (or your high school, if you happen to be young enough).

As for Serenity the game itself, keep in mind that the combat is quite lethal. I recommend setting up a few mock scenarios and running them by yourself to see how the combat plays out. If all it takes is a bullet or two to kill that character you just spent two hours making, you might want to keep that in mind.

I wish I could give you more advice. Until then, do what you've been doing, and you said you would do (post your results and efforts), and what I've recommend (to the best of your ability, of course). Good luck.

Zeta Kai
2009-07-23, 11:04 AM
As for Serenity the game itself, keep in mind that the combat is quite lethal. I recommend setting up a few mock scenarios and running them by yourself to see how the combat plays out. If all it takes is a bullet or two to kill that character you just spent two hours making, you might want to keep that in mind.

Quoted for truth. It's a great system for RPing, but I will say that even long-term characters can get whacked with ease (poor, poor Shepherd, we'll miss you). I've rarely played a system that was so lethal. Well, there is Call of Chthulu, but we never expected to fight anything; running for our lives was our most common activity.

mcv
2009-07-23, 12:00 PM
I've never played it yet, but one of the things I particularly like about Serenity RPG is the Plot Points. It looks to me like they give players a lot more control over the story than in most conventional RPGs, and if I ever player Serenity, I'm definitely going to make the most of them.

Other than that, the setting is really cool, but (unlike D&D for example) mostly about characters, relationships and actual roleplaying, rather than combat. And the system might be even deadlier than the series (they managed to survive some serious shooting in War Stories with nary a scratch). Avoid unnecessary combat, and if you do end up in combat, remember that it's more about seeking cover and getting out of there than about defeating the other guy (and you might want to play NPCs the same way, whenever appropriate).

Also, cut your players some slack. Don't kill their characters over a minor misunderstanding. If they're about to get in over their heads, make sure they know that. Also, think on your feet. Run with whatever the players throw at you. Make sure they have fun and feel empowered. As a GM, it's not your job to bend them to your will, it's your job to make sure everybody has fun.

On a final note, there's a Serenity RPG forum out there somewhere. I forgot the URL, but it's worth checking out, because they've got lots of cool stuff, including downloadable adventures on PDF. No idea how good those adventures really are (most published adventures are awful, no matter what system), but they might help you get started.

Natael
2009-07-23, 12:13 PM
When I played my first game, story wise, was very fun and enjoyable. One of the problems I saw, which they might of changed, is since they had called shot rules I just aimed for 3 rounds and fired for the heart. Most combats ended very quickly.

Huh, guns actually killing people with a bullet or three is a problem? Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

I've played in the system once in a one shot 4-6 hours adventure, was pretty fun, the scaling dice system seemed to work just fine for me. Nothing you couldent do with a generic system well, but it had a lot of information and a good rules set. I wouldent be against spending $30 on it if I was going to use it.

Curmudgeon
2009-07-23, 12:45 PM
Serenity is set up to favor optimization by team rather than by individual. That means that each character will typically only have 2 things they're good at, and you get coverage of all the necessary skills through teamwork. That's because it's much more expensive to develop skills further once they're trained up. But it's cheap to build up base skills at character creation.

Also, you want to get the skills you depend on to have an extra die. Serenity is the "not d20 system", because it uses every other type of die. Development progresses from d2 (coin flip or even/odd die roll) to d4, d6, d8, d10, d12 -- and then you get d12 + d2, d12 + d4, and so on. A botch is a roll of 1 on both/all your dice. Adding an extra die gives a significant reduction in your chance of botching. So create your character to have at least d12 + d2 for their 2 important skills to reduce your chance of critical failure.

Hadrian_Emrys
2009-07-23, 12:58 PM
A few helpful hints for your players:

A midget makes the best gunman.
Things Don't Go Smooth is a damned fine trait for nearly everyone.
Pilots should NEVER get Leaky Brainpan.
Avoid fighting when you can, and have a medic handy when you can't.
Learn to swear in Cantonese/Mandrin. It really does improve the game.
Do NOT screw with the Alliance unless it's vital to do so.

Totally Guy
2009-07-23, 01:08 PM
Things Don't Go Smooth is a damned fine trait for nearly everyone.

I had such fun with that one. In actual fact I was getting bored of my Pilot Croupier until he reinvented himself as a criminal mastermind that just couldn't catch a break.

Alteran
2009-07-23, 01:56 PM
Quoted for truth. It's a great system for RPing, but I will say that even long-term characters can get whacked with ease (poor, poor Shepherd, we'll miss you).

Book? What about Wash?

Until today, I did not know that this system existed. I'm now going to try to find it, I hope to play it one day. It sounds like a lot of fun, and extremely lethal combat would be an interesting change of pace from what I currently play. I also loved Firefly and Serenity, so that helps.

Jerthanis
2009-07-23, 02:58 PM
Watch the money output. People are mentioning that the game is lethal, but if you hand out 1000 credits and they buy elite military hardware, full tactical gear and assault rifles/laser pistols for the whole fightin' crew, that kind of goes out the window unless you similarly upgrade their enemies.

On the other hand, give out 100 credits for a job well done and the party banker will say, "Oh, well, we've got to find a local job, because with repairs and fuel, that doesn't get us offworld again." and that's your continuum.

The system is textbook munchkin bait, so watch out of PCs dipping deep for extra points. Drawbacks are plentiful, and with no reason to limit yourself taking just a couple. The one time I ran, I had people with morbidly obese Dwarfen kleptomaniac sadists who were ugly and the like.

Also, mechanically, I didn't like the game for two reasons: 1.) Advancement was based primarily on how many plot points you managed to keep above and beyond the 6 you start with. Considering the act of acquiring them puts the group in harm's way, and using them up will almost always be as a means of helping out the group, that means jerks who actively work against the interests of the other PCs are rewarded. and 2.) Because of the way advanced stats and skills worked, character advancement felt hollow. Going from a d6 to a d8 in an attribute costs a whopping 32 advancement points. That's, practically speaking, about six sessions, assuming you complete an adventure every single session and manage to hoard up a few plot points above 6 every session. What you get out of this is a simple +1 to the average result of your rolls involving that attribute.

I'd much prefer to run a Firefly game using the FATE (http://www.faterpg.com/) system. I would say, Serenity's system would be really good for running Song of Ice and Fire games though.

Alteran
2009-07-23, 06:19 PM
Looking at Amazon.ca, I see 4 possible games (here (http://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=serenity+rpg&x=0&y=0)). I'm thinking this (http://www.amazon.ca/Serenity-Role-Playing-Jamie-Chambers/dp/1931567506/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1248391392&sr=8-1) is the right one, but could anybody confirm this for me? Also, does anybody know anything about the other games?

Deth Muncher
2009-07-23, 10:53 PM
Thanks for asking these questions, since I saw this very product being advertised by Felicia Day and the rest of The Guild at the San Diego Comic Con, and I was intrigued. I've never actually seen Firefly, but I think I might have seen Serenity, not knowing what it was.

Zeta Kai
2009-07-23, 10:58 PM
Looking at Amazon.ca, I see 4 possible games (here (http://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=serenity+rpg&x=0&y=0)). I'm thinking this (http://www.amazon.ca/Serenity-Role-Playing-Jamie-Chambers/dp/1931567506/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1248391392&sr=8-1) is the right one, but could anybody confirm this for me? Also, does anybody know anything about the other games?

That's the one. Lovely background info on the 'Verse, & a cool game, too. Win-win, I say.

chiasaur11
2009-07-23, 11:05 PM
Thanks for asking these questions, since I saw this very product being advertised by Felicia Day and the rest of The Guild at the San Diego Comic Con, and I was intrigued. I've never actually seen Firefly, but I think I might have seen Serenity, not knowing what it was.

The whole of Firefly's on Hulu if you're in the US.

Worth watching, I'd say.

Alteran
2009-07-23, 11:51 PM
Thanks for asking these questions, since I saw this very product being advertised by Felicia Day and the rest of The Guild at the San Diego Comic Con, and I was intrigued. I've never actually seen Firefly, but I think I might have seen Serenity, not knowing what it was.

I saw Serenity for the first time...in Gym class. I'm still not sure why we watched a movie, but we did have a substitute teacher that day. Simply put, I had no idea what the hell was going on. The whole room was talking, and of course none of us had seen Firefly. All I remember is seeing some random girl (River, of course) beating up a room full of people for no apparent reason (the Maidenhead scene). About a year later I bought Firefly on DVD, and I loved it. I borrowed the DVD of Serenity from my neighbor, and I loved it. It's amazing how much I disliked it the first time I saw it, but I think it's justified.

Tomorrow I get the chance to show Firefly to one of my best friends, and he was with me the day we watched Serenity in class. He shared in my dislike that day, so I'm looking forward to converting him. :smallsmile:


That's the one. Lovely background info on the 'Verse, & a cool game, too. Win-win, I say.

I just ordered it from Amazon, along with Divine Power. I hope you're right, but I don't doubt that you are.


The whole of Firefly's on Hulu if you're in the US.

Worth watching, I'd say.

Dammit Hulu, us Canadians want free TV too. :smallfrown:

Deth Muncher
2009-07-24, 01:19 AM
The whole of Firefly's on Hulu if you're in the US.

Worth watching, I'd say.

Ah Hulu, America's greatest invention since the Apple Pie. What? You say the Apple Pie was brought here by the Pennsylvania Dutch? Well...okay. But they're still American. What? You say they're actually German? WHY ARE WE TOLD ALL THESE LIEEES! WHAT HAS AMERICA MADE ON ITS OWN! D:

Sorry about that, minor breakdown. Carry on.

chiasaur11
2009-07-24, 01:25 AM
Ah Hulu, America's greatest invention since the Apple Pie. What? You say the Apple Pie was brought here by the Pennsylvania Dutch? Well...okay. But they're still American. What? You say they're actually German? WHY ARE WE TOLD ALL THESE LIEEES! WHAT HAS AMERICA MADE ON ITS OWN! D:

Sorry about that, minor breakdown. Carry on.

We made "Pong" didn't we?

Best. Game. Ever.

Also, we have Warren Spector.

BobVosh
2009-07-24, 01:49 AM
Ah Hulu, America's greatest invention since the Apple Pie. What? You say the Apple Pie was brought here by the Pennsylvania Dutch? Well...okay. But they're still American. What? You say they're actually German? WHY ARE WE TOLD ALL THESE LIEEES! WHAT HAS AMERICA MADE ON ITS OWN! D:

Sorry about that, minor breakdown. Carry on.

We made hulu. Be secure in that knowledge.

As far as money goes the best system is actually no system. Basically our...DM/ST/GM whatever the system calls em, said we were running rich from recent activities, poor, etc. Just like the show one week we could afford all sorts of fancy stuff, next session we are doing odd jobs in hopes of getting some food. The group was extremely RP oriented, but we noticed the lethality of the system. Not as bad as warhammer, CoC, or other meat grinder games but still pretty bad.

And because I can I will tell you about my favorite character I have made. I made a mudder who grubbed enough money from when Jayne dropped cash to make it off world along with my sister (another player). I had hero worship: Jayne, and it was a hell of a lot of fun. Mainly because it was the mudders perspective. I had my wall in my quarters filled with wanted posters for him, I led the crew on a few verses of Jayne's Theme. (http://www.fireflywiki.org/Firefly/JaynesTheme)

Normal shenanigans but that was so much fun.

Jerthanis
2009-07-24, 03:40 AM
Ah Hulu, America's greatest invention since the Apple Pie. What? You say the Apple Pie was brought here by the Pennsylvania Dutch? Well...okay. But they're still American. What? You say they're actually German? WHY ARE WE TOLD ALL THESE LIEEES! WHAT HAS AMERICA MADE ON ITS OWN! D:

Sorry about that, minor breakdown. Carry on.

Morbid Obesity and the Atom Bomb... that's pretty much it.

mcv
2009-07-24, 04:13 AM
Watch the money output. People are mentioning that the game is lethal, but if you hand out 1000 credits and they buy elite military hardware, full tactical gear and assault rifles/laser pistols for the whole fightin' crew, that kind of goes out the window unless you similarly upgrade their enemies.
Full armour, assault rifles and lasers for everybody doesn't really fit the wild west/losers in space theme of the setting. You should be able to do something useful with a simple pistol. That's what most of the fighting in the series is done with. Jayne's gun doesn't really seem to be much more effective than that, except at long range.


The system is textbook munchkin bait, so watch out of PCs dipping deep for extra points. Drawbacks are plentiful, and with no reason to limit yourself taking just a couple. The one time I ran, I had people with morbidly obese Dwarfen kleptomaniac sadists who were ugly and the like.
Did they realise that a crew like that would be mocked and ridiculed everywhere, and that kleptomaniac sadists will get themselves in quite a lot of trouble?

Drawbacks shouldn't be a free ride. It's possible they give more points than they should in the game (it's been a while since I've looked at it), so when that's the case, make them pay for it.

At the same time, drawbacks are actualy an advantage for the players: if they manage to make it relevant to the game, they get plot points. So it might even make sense to give no or very few points for them at character creation.


Advancement was based primarily on how many plot points you managed to keep above and beyond the 6 you start with.
That's easily the biggest mistake in the system. I think they fixed that in a later "generic" version of the same system. It's better to encourage players to spend all their plot points on the final confrontation of each session and give them advancement points completely independent from that. Or, what I was considering: give them advancement points based on how many plot points they spent rather than saved, but that might be a bit too odd.


Because of the way advanced stats and skills worked, character advancement felt hollow. Going from a d6 to a d8 in an attribute costs a whopping 32 advancement points. That's, practically speaking, about six sessions, assuming you complete an adventure every single session and manage to hoard up a few plot points above 6 every session. What you get out of this is a simple +1 to the average result of your rolls involving that attribute.
I don't care about that. It's not a D&D bullet train to Epic, you already start out pretty competent. Advancement is not required to have fun, so I'm perfectly okay with ignoring it completely. It should be about growing personalities rather than growing stats.

mcv
2009-07-24, 04:15 AM
I've never actually seen Firefly, but I think I might have seen Serenity, not knowing what it was.
It should be illegal to see Serenity before you've seen Firefly. The movie doesn't make much sense if you haven't seen the series, and it's also not nearly as good. The series is the best thing that's been on TV ever (objective fact). The movie is just quickly wrapping up some loose ends.


Looking at Amazon.ca, I see 4 possible games (here (http://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=serenity+rpg&x=0&y=0)). I'm thinking this (http://www.amazon.ca/Serenity-Role-Playing-Jamie-Chambers/dp/1931567506/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1248391392&sr=8-1) is the right one, but could anybody confirm this for me? Also, does anybody know anything about the other games?
They all look like supplements for the same game. No idea what Six-Shooters & Spaceships is, but everything else is adventures, I think. Six-Shooters & Spaceships might be about more gear perhaps? Or maybe it's also an adventure.

Night Monkey
2009-07-24, 05:48 AM
I have the book for this system, but have never played a game of it. I tried one time, but my players got too sci-fi-realistic in chargen, and ship creation (the idea was they had built their own out of scrap in a massive junkyard, which was a pretty neat idea initially) and the guy playing the mechanic got to badgering me with dozens of questions about the physics of the propulsion systems. I stopped the game before it began.

Another problem can be that 5 flaws is too much to allow some players to pick. When you end up with a crew full of angry, paranoid, ugly, prejudicial and widely hated characters with awesome attributes, you really need to ensure that their dysfunctional social skills get them into lots of trouble.

mcv
2009-07-24, 06:33 AM
I have the book for this system, but have never played a game of it. I tried one time, but my players got too sci-fi-realistic in chargen, and ship creation (the idea was they had built their own out of scrap in a massive junkyard, which was a pretty neat idea initially) and the guy playing the mechanic got to badgering me with dozens of questions about the physics of the propulsion systems. I stopped the game before it began.
Shame. It is a neat idea, but not terribly realistic, so it'd be smarter for the players not to get too hung up on realism. Anyway, for the technical questions, just answer them by rolling openly on the technobabble table (conveniently provided by the system). He should get the hint. And if he wants to know how fast the ship goes, you tell them it goes at the speed of plot.


Another problem can be that 5 flaws is too much to allow some players to pick.
Since more people seem to have this problem, I suggest this house rule:

You get full points for a single flaw (your worst one). Every flaw after that gets you 1/10 of its point value. If it fits your charachter concept, they're still useful to take, because they provide more opportunities to gain plot points.

Finn Solomon
2009-07-24, 10:15 PM
I've come up with a crew of seven, and vague ideas of a ship. I don't want to use a Firefly purely out of a desire for variety, but the book's sample ships are pretty limited. I might have to design one from scratch. I'd also encourage you guys to post up your characters, I'd like to read about your ideas.

Captain Kate Buchanan. Captain and fighter. She joined the Browncoats during the U War to look for her two brothers who served with the Independents. What she doesn't know is that one has been enslaved and the other betrayed his unit and joined the Alliance. She's a kind and compassionate woman who can blow off a Raider's head at fifty paces. Captains the Idlewild, taking jobs as they come and searching for her lost brothers.

Haroun Raschid Al'Saud. Socialite. He was once a famous actor, writer and director on Paquin, until his anti-government and anti-corporate views earned him the ire of the Alliance and the Blue Sun. He decided to get out before he was clamped down hard, and joined the Idlewild to seek inspiration, ideas, and to further his cause. Can't resist a pretty face and is a suave, sophisticated sort of guy.

Danny Zayed. Fighter and mechanic. A strong, silent woman who grew up on a lonely ranch on Ezra, before her parents were killed in a raider attack. She was deafened by a grenade and refused to speak another word from then on. Later raised by her Alliance vet grandfather, who taught her how to shoot and fight. A deaf-mute woman wouldn't last long in the Verse, but Danny can fight her way out of any tough spot and had the luck to meet up with Captain Kate, who looks out for her. She serves as the security expert and second mechanic. Secretly in love with Haroun.

Jericho Gray. Pilot and mechanic. An acerbic, sarcastic Jamaican guy who received pilot training on a Core world and was imprisoned when he flatly refused to serve in the U War. Was released after the Alliance won, and worked jobs out on the Border planets. Never lasted long because despite his skills, he would always infuriate whichever crew he was serving with. He stole an entire ship because the captain wouldn't pay him, and flew it at hard burn halfway across the Verse before being flagged by the Alliance. After being rescued by Kate, he serves as her ace pilot and chief engineer, even if he makes her want to shove him out of an airlock at times.

Yukitomo Mori. Fighter and medic. A Japanese guy who came from a fairly well-to-do family on Verbena and studied to be a doctor. His family's fortunes went up in flames when an Independent soldier-turned-terrorist attacked the planet and caused a massive economic depression. No longer placing much value on material possessions, he drifted to Bernadette and was ordained as a Buddhist monk. Although believing in the tenet of not killing, he does not believe in non-violence and was thrown out of the temple after seeking training in the martial arts. Travels the Verse to spread his particular brand of faith.

Raphaella Alonso. Socialite/Covert Ops. A girl who was trained as a companion on Sihnon, but decided that a sedate lifestyle of subtle whoring was not for her. Used her Companion training to its fullest extent as a spy and infiltrator for the Alliance in the U War, but was cut off and abandoned as soon as the War ended. On the run because she knows too much, and now tries to strike back however she can.

"Uncle" Lin Shi Huang. Medic. An eighty-year old man who was enjoying quiet retirement until his only sister died and made him promise to take care of her only granddaughter. Apparently she ran away from Companion school and did unspeakable things for the Alliance, and now she's on the run for her life. He managed to find Raphaella, and serves on the Idlewild as its chief medic and cranky old man. Probably my favourite character.

Jerthanis
2009-07-25, 04:56 AM
Full armour, assault rifles and lasers for everybody doesn't really fit the wild west/losers in space theme of the setting. You should be able to do something useful with a simple pistol. That's what most of the fighting in the series is done with. Jayne's gun doesn't really seem to be much more effective than that, except at long range.

Assault Rifles do better damage than anything else if autofire is taken into account, at better range than most everything else. They're cheap, even at 150%+ markup due to black market costs. Why should my players choose to pack d6 weapons when d8+autofire are available? Those are the rules in the book. Heck, why did Mal walk off his ship with a pistol and a swagger at the climax of Serenity when he toted a BFG around two scenes earlier on empty rock of a world Miranda?

It's just plot induced stupidity for them not to, and there's no reason to put up with it in an RPG. Especially in a world where you will die if you're shot and armor exists that makes a bullet more like a slap in the chest. I'm warning against giving out enough money to screw with the feel of the show. 1000 Credits, one time, and the whole party is in Tac Gear. I'm telling you for serious.



Did they realise that a crew like that would be mocked and ridiculed everywhere, and that kleptomaniac sadists will get themselves in quite a lot of trouble?

Yeah, he was mocked a few times, then one of his mockers was fed his own hand. It trailed off after that. Seeing as how 90% of the show is about illegal activity anyway, getting into trouble isn't really against the grain, and being a Sadist helped more than it hindered because, "Don't let anyone know we were here or I will come back for you!" kept plenty of mouths shut.



Drawbacks shouldn't be a free ride. It's possible they give more points than they should in the game (it's been a while since I've looked at it), so when that's the case, make them pay for it.

The true munchkin cares neither about how little the drawbacks really add, though in this system they add a lot, nor about how painful they can be to come up. Making a player pay for his Munchkinry is often punishing him by giving him more attention. Yeah, they hate it when you pay attention to them. Even if you kill the Klepto Sadist Dwarf, he'll come back with an Amorous Drug-abusing Mute with a Leaky Brainpan who really sticks out in a crowd.

Making people pay for their ridiculous choices for drawbacks isn't an appropriate response, ESPECIALLY not in a system that actually rewards you if your drawbacks come up.



I don't care about that. It's not a D&D bullet train to Epic, you already start out pretty competent. Advancement is not required to have fun, so I'm perfectly okay with ignoring it completely. It should be about growing personalities rather than growing stats.

Consider, other than buying off complications (which is much cheaper than buying the equivalent value of Attribute points, just BTW), buying up your attributes and skills is literally the only thing to spend your points on.

Compare to the FATE system which I mentioned earlier, which has almost no advancement at all, and the published books in that system go out of their way to mention, "In most groups, a lack of serious advancement systems often makes a game unsuited for longterm play, so this system is best for short games or one-shots"... yet in FATE, the advancement system permanently upgrades your Plot Point supply, or gives you new and unique ways of applying your character's existing skills or Plot Points, both much more rewarding in my opinion than seeing one number go up by 1 point once in a medium length game. Perhaps "bullet train to epic" isn't appropriate, but to say the advancement system isn't lackluster would ring hollow to me.



It should be illegal to see Serenity before you've seen Firefly. The movie doesn't make much sense if you haven't seen the series, and it's also not nearly as good. The series is the best thing that's been on TV ever (objective fact). The movie is just quickly wrapping up some loose ends.

This is not true and I hate the elitist "I was with the show before you were, and that makes me better" mentality that goes with so many first generation browncoats. I saw Serenity before the show and it made perfect sense to me. In fact, I liked it better. Still do, in fact.

Dervag
2009-07-25, 06:10 AM
Anyway, the point of this thread is to discuss the RPG. I've never played an actual, honest-to-God pencil and paper RPG before in my life. What I do know about DnD and the dicechucker culture I've absorbed through osmosis. But now I've got Serenity, I'm going to go buy some dice and rustle up some people to play a game. Even if no one wants to play, well, I still have some pretty cool characters. I'd like to post them up here and see what you guys think of my creations. I'd be right pleased if you do take the time.You don't happen to live in the general vicinity of Washington, D.C., do you?


We made "Pong" didn't we?

Best. Game. Ever.

Also, we have Warren Spector.And duct tape. We invented duct tape.


Morbid Obesity and the Atom Bomb... that's pretty much it.Also the occasional GPS satellite.


I've come up with a crew of seven, and vague ideas of a ship. I don't want to use a Firefly purely out of a desire for variety, but the book's sample ships are pretty limited. I might have to design one from scratch. I'd also encourage you guys to post up your characters, I'd like to read about your ideas.What happens if your players want their own characters?

mcv
2009-07-25, 07:20 AM
Assault Rifles do better damage than anything else if autofire is taken into account, at better range than most everything else. They're cheap, even at 150%+ markup due to black market costs. Why should my players choose to pack d6 weapons when d8+autofire are available? Those are the rules in the book. Heck, why did Mal walk off his ship with a pistol and a swagger at the climax of Serenity when he toted a BFG around two scenes earlier on empty rock of a world Miranda?
Good question. Of course the movie and series are more about style and drama than about realistic tactical choices. And I think a good Firefly RPG should reward style and drama over sound tactics. So with rules saying assault rifles are simply better, how do you keep the style of six-shooters?

For one thing, assault rifles are obvious. They attract attention, whereas a pistol can sit innocuously in a holster. You don't carry an assault rifle unless you're absolutely sure there's going to be shooting. If people see strangers with assault rifles, they hide and lock the door. You basically can't talk to anyone while carrying an assault rifle, which is why in many situations, the crew is still better off with revolvers.

In a War Stories-style frontal assault, of course the assault rifles will come out (if they have them).


Especially in a world where you will die if you're shot and armor exists that makes a bullet more like a slap in the chest. I'm warning against giving out enough money to screw with the feel of the show. 1000 Credits, one time, and the whole party is in Tac Gear. I'm telling you for serious.
And yet 1000 credits isn't all that much when you're flying a spaceship with tons of expensive equipment. I admit I haven't examined the Serenity RPG economy very well, and from what I've seen, operating a ship is surprisingly cheap, but even so, in the series the crew has an enormous amount of firepower hidden away in their ship. Jayne's collection alone can equip a small army, and War Stories shows he's not the only one with more than one gun.

So why don't they walk around like your average PC psychopaths loaded with heavy firepower? Because they're not psychopaths, and don't want to appear that way. Most of the time, a pistol is plenty.

The problem is: how do you get that across to your players? Of course they prefer d8 + autofire over a mere d6.

The real problem is: players tend to be paranoid. They see danger around every corner, and the GM could ambush them with a bunch of heavily armed goons at any time, so they need to be prepared and fully armed at all times, not realising that doing so may attract far more lethal attention than walking around seemingly unarmed.

I'm not sure if there's any way to do this right, though. Firefly is rather inconsistent about it too. In Serenity (the pilot, not the movie), Zoe survives because she's wearing armour invisibly hidden under her clothes (ballistic mesh, probably). But if you can wear that invisibly and without any penalty, then why don't they wear it all the time?


Yeah, he was mocked a few times, then one of his mockers was fed his own hand. It trailed off after that. Seeing as how 90% of the show is about illegal activity anyway, getting into trouble isn't really against the grain, and being a Sadist helped more than it hindered because, "Don't let anyone know we were here or I will come back for you!" kept plenty of mouths shut.
Sounds like your classic group of psychopaths. The crew of Firefly (especially in the movie) also has places where they're welcome. Some people like them because they're basically good guys (except Jayne perhaps, but Mal can keep him in check), they're somewhat sociable and they don't go around threatening people unless they need to.


The true munchkin cares neither about how little the drawbacks really add, though in this system they add a lot, nor about how painful they can be to come up. Making a player pay for his Munchkinry is often punishing him by giving him more attention. Yeah, they hate it when you pay attention to them.
This is a very insightful point.

You're right that Serenity RPG is very vulnerable to munchkinry, especially when players overload on complications (because they're also an advantage, since you can get plot points through them). The system already rewards complications in play, so maybe it'd be better not to reward them during character creation? Not taking any makes your character boring and gives you less options to get plot points, so a smart min-maxer will take them anyway.


Compare to the FATE system which I mentioned earlier, which has almost no advancement at all, and the published books in that system go out of their way to mention, "In most groups, a lack of serious advancement systems often makes a game unsuited for longterm play, so this system is best for short games or one-shots"... yet in FATE, the advancement system permanently upgrades your Plot Point supply, or gives you new and unique ways of applying your character's existing skills or Plot Points, both much more rewarding in my opinion than seeing one number go up by 1 point once in a medium length game.
This sounds very interesting. Now I need to look up the FATE system.


Perhaps "bullet train to epic" isn't appropriate, but to say the advancement system isn't lackluster would ring hollow to me.
I never said I liked the advancement system, I just said it's a system that can work fine without any advancement (just like Shadowrun and GURPS, and completely unlike D&D and most other level-based systems). But your description of advancement in FATE sounds very suitable for something like Firefly.


This is not true and I hate the elitist "I was with the show before you were, and that makes me better" mentality that goes with so many first generation browncoats. I saw Serenity before the show and it made perfect sense to me. In fact, I liked it better. Still do, in fact.
It's a matter of opinion of course. I vastly prefer the TV series over the movie, and I've always assumed that it works much better if you already know and love the characters. But I'll take your word for it that it can work the other way around too. I still prefer the TV series.

Edit: There is a lot of absolutely brilliant dialogue in the movie that would fit in very well with the TV series. My problem is that the movie is really fast-paced, focuses mostly on the action, and everythimng is a bit larger than life, whereas the TV show is much more about character development and relationships and much more down to earth, which I liked a lot.

mcv
2009-07-25, 07:36 AM
What happens if your players want their own characters?

Then they're out of luck. I approve of GMs making the characters, particularly in short campaigns, stand-alone adventures and with a new GM or new players.

It saves you from having to deal with a too-varied mix of munchkins, min-maxers and less skilled character designers. Often I think suboptimal characters are much more interesting than optimal builds, but if you let players design their own characters, it's practically impossible to stop them from optimising. It's easier to get a balanced crew if the GM does everything. It can also prevent completely disfunctional crews (D&Ders are probably familiar with the Thief + Paladin in the same party problem).

Of course it's also nice for the players to have some input on what kind of character they get to play. There are many different ways to handle that (have them decide the background and personality, while the GM does the stats; have GM design the character based on how the players answer a couple of questions that the GM considers relevant; or create pre-fab characters and have the players tweak some details to suit their taste), and in my experience most of them work. As long as the GM does his job, but that's a requirement anyway.

One of my favourite characters ever was a completely GM-designed Shadowrun character who thought he was an English earl who got mugged and stranded in Seattle without money or ID, but everybody else thought he was a BTL junkie who only believed he was an earl. I still don't know which is the truth.

kjones
2009-07-25, 10:09 AM
Erm, Shadowrun does have advancement, with Karma and whatnot. Just because a system isn't level-based doesn't mean it can't have character advancement.

Finn Solomon
2009-07-25, 06:26 PM
You don't happen to live in the general vicinity of Washington, D.C., do you?


Sorry mate, although it's high on my list of places to visit, I currently reside in Singapore.


What happens if your players want their own characters?

I'd let them do it, but see that they make a balanced one fit for Roleplaying, not video gaming if you catch my meaning.

Hadrian_Emrys
2009-07-25, 07:40 PM
We had a three person crew last time we played:

I ran the captain of the ship, an idealistic Companion doctor. Those he could not charm, or barter treatment with, he could kung fu. He never threw a single punch as far as I can recall. :smallamused:

We had a pilot/thief who was both a klepto AND had a Leaky Brainpan. Humping nutter a girl was extremely gifted but kept trying to land on, or avoid, clouds as if they were soild objects. :smalleek:

Then... then there was the beast on the captain's leash. A dwarf gunman/mechanic that worshipped Reavers, and wanted to become one when he wasn't occupied keeping our ship together. It was through this nutter's actions that the story came to a violent end in a hospital on an Alliance planet. :smallannoyed:

It was a funny game, even if it wasn't the longest running one.

mcv
2009-07-26, 12:25 AM
Erm, Shadowrun does have advancement, with Karma and whatnot.
Of course it does, just like Serenity and GURPS. But because you can start out with a mature character, it doesn't require advancement the way D&D does. Playing a level 1 D&D character forever would suck. Playing a Shaduwrun, GURPS or Serenity character without any advancement wouldn't.

Finn Solomon
2009-07-27, 08:35 AM
We had a three person crew last time we played:

I ran the captain of the ship, an idealistic Companion doctor. Those he could not charm, or barter treatment with, he could kung fu. He never threw a single punch as far as I can recall. :smallamused:

We had a pilot/thief who was both a klepto AND had a Leaky Brainpan. Humping nutter a girl was extremely gifted but kept trying to land on, or avoid, clouds as if they were soild objects. :smalleek:

Then... then there was the beast on the captain's leash. A dwarf gunman/mechanic that worshipped Reavers, and wanted to become one when he wasn't occupied keeping our ship together. It was through this nutter's actions that the story came to a violent end in a hospital on an Alliance planet. :smallannoyed:

It was a funny game, even if it wasn't the longest running one.

The first character sounds really good, like a more benevolent James Bond.

Alteran
2009-07-27, 12:20 PM
I'm not sure if there's any way to do this right, though. Firefly is rather inconsistent about it too. In Serenity (the pilot, not the movie), Zoe survives because she's wearing armour invisibly hidden under her clothes (ballistic mesh, probably). But if you can wear that invisibly and without any penalty, then why don't they wear it all the time?


Don't they? I also assumed that they didn't, but now I'm not quite sure. Have we ever seen Mal, Zoe, or Jayne get shot in the torso or back at any other time?

Even if they don't always wear it, the mission where we know Zoe was wearing armour was particularly risky. Patience had already shot Mal once, and it was reasonable to assume she would try it again. And guess what? She did. Now, this seems like a bit of a flimsy explanation to me. After all, most of their missions devolve into gunfire. I'm thinking the first explanation (they do always wear it, it's just rarely necessary to show it) is a better one, unless somebody can show me an example that contradicts it.

Hadrian_Emrys
2009-07-27, 12:28 PM
The first character sounds really good, like a more benevolent James Bond.

Thanks! I liked the concept myself. :smallbiggrin: