I feel like something new...

[Lord Loss]

Are there any RPG games that take forever to beat, are fun the whole way but are not just ''More grinding through level after level''. Ideally, death should result in complete restart, but tthat's optional. And don't say dwarf forteress. For computer. (windows XP).

[Rutskarn]

Lies!

Everyone knows that no gamers want anything new. Every single person who picks up a mouse or controller knows exactly what he or she wants--the exact same Grindfest 200X game they've been reskinning and passing around for a decade now.

Shooter? You're a grizzled space marine dealing with tacked-on, infuriatingly simplistic politics between an eeee-vil arch-government and some charismatic (supposedly) rebels. Or just killing aliens. You regenerate health gradually, there's cover mechanics and squad AI, and your battlefield is a world of brown and grey.

Western RPG? You are the simple farm peasant boy/girl mentioned in the prophecy as the chosen one, who would rise up from the ashes of their home and beat down the rising dark lord. Mechanics are simplistic point-to-pick-target, select-attacks-from-menu interfaces. Play 21321 exciting classes, all of which are virtually identical to the fighter, wizard, thief and cleric classes.

((I don't play JRPGs, but I'm positive they have a list of cliches exactly as egregious.))

Now sit back and take your Warrior Soul Crystal Quest 13, buddy. You know you want it. All 5 hours of gameplay. Hey, if you're lucky, maybe you can lengthen the gameplay by way of a soulless, nauseatingly shallow romantic subplot with the hot chick with the staff!

[SurlySeraph]

Baldur's Gate II, especially with the Throne of Baal expansion, and especially if you get the original Baldur's Gate as well.

Nethack, ADOM, and most other roguelikes, though they have a fair bit of grinding.

[Vmag]

If you don't mind emulation, then that opens up a whole world of original RPGs for you. However, I do not know what this Community's stand on certain... points of discussion are, so I'll leave that where it is.

On the less-grey side of legalities, Sword of the Samurai is a pretty good RPG, if you can find it. Good ol' MicroProse, and it doesn't even follow most of any of the combat mechanics of other RPGs.


http://www.homeoftheunderdogs.net/game.php?id=1112
There's the Home of the Underdog review of it. Not as comprehensive as the Abandonia review, but I don't think it's quite halal to link directly to that sort of site.

[Rutskarn]

However, I do not know what this Community's stand on certain... points of discussion are, so I'll leave that where it is.

If I'm clear on the rules, discussion of illegal activity ain't allowed, so that's probably a smart move.

Now that Daggerfall is--legally--available for download, that's an option, but it's kind of a grind sandwich.

[JMobius]

ADOM decidedly fits the bill.

[Lord Loss]

Oh. I mispronounced myself. I meant I don't want grinding through level up after level up, unless this takes me to many different and exotic places (or spaceships?) I was thinking of trying Bioshock... is that any good?

[Oregano]

Oh. I mispronounced myself. I meant I don't want grinding through level up after level up, unless this takes me to many different and exotic places (or spaceships?) I was thinking of trying Bioshock... is that any good?

It's not an RPG. It's a shooter with RPG elements...

[Baerdog7]

It's not an RPG. It's a shooter with RPG elements...

True, but it is very good.

[chiasaur11]

It's not an RPG. It's a shooter with RPG elements...

Like Deus Ex.

Ah, Deus Ex. Pretty much the perfect hybrid of shooter and RPG.

And stealth.

[Rutskarn]

Like Deus Ex.

Ah, Deus Ex. Pretty much the perfect hybrid of shooter and RPG.

And stealth.

And political/philosophical debate simulation engine.

[endoperez]

An Untitled Story by Matt Makes Games (http://mattmakesgames.com/) is a platformer that's large enough to make you feel like you're adventuring and/or exploring. It contains many secret passageways through walls and other secrets, so keep your eyes open for visual hints such as arrows or flame swirls etc in the background art.

[Mando Knight]

Ideally, death should result in complete restart, but tthat's optional.

King's Quest. It's old, and is actually a point-and-click adventure game rather than an RPG, but if you mess up, you will never complete the game. :smallamused:

[Hunter Noventa]

Mass Effect is a pretty good shooter/rpg hybrid. It's got variable difficulty, though dying just means going back to your last save. The plot related planets are very different, though the sidequests...not so much.

You do get the shoot the crap out of a crapping crapton of robots though. It also has New Game+ and is only $20.

[Morrandir]

King's Quest. It's old, and is actually a point-and-click adventure game rather than an RPG, but if you mess up, you will never complete the game. :smallamused:

I can vouch for this. You often won't know for quite some time, as well.

Stupid pie from V.

Morrowind can take a very (very, very, very, very) long time to really go through fully, and there's not really any grinding unless you choose to. Lots to do and see.

[EleventhHour]

I can vouch for this. You often won't know for quite some time, as well.

Stupid pie from V.

Morrowind can take a very (very, very, very, very) long time to really go through fully, and there's not really any grinding unless you choose to. Lots to do and see.

So true. And it's great for anyone who has OCD, can you collect all the strange Dwemer artifacts? How many Scrolls of Icarian Flight do you really need? Can you remember where that awesome daedric ruin hidden in a cave with a lock level 100 door, that you figured to return to later is?

100% Awesomeness, especially if you like wilderness hikes/intracity teleports, not fast travel. Stupid Fast travel.

[arguskos]

Gonna second Baldur's Gate 1, 2, and expansion to 2, Throne of Bhaal. Lots of stuff to do, fun mechanics, great game.

[Rutskarn]

So true. And it's great for anyone who has OCD, can you collect all the strange Dwemer artifacts? How many Scrolls of Icarian Flight do you really need? Can you remember where that awesome daedric ruin hidden in a cave with a lock level 100 door, that you figured to return to later is?

100% Awesomeness, especially if you like wilderness hikes/intracity teleports, not fast travel. Stupid Fast travel.

For the true obsessive, get Tribunal and then try to sell all of the artifacts to the museum.

[Fostire]

For the true obsessive, get Tribunal and then try to sell all of the artifacts to the museum.

But then you can't use the artifacts yourself

[Rutskarn]

But then you can't use the artifacts yourself

If you're hella skilled enough to get every item, you're good enough to steal them back.

[chiasaur11]

If you're hella skilled enough to get every item, you're good enough to steal them back.

It belongs in a museum!

[Alex Knight]

It belongs in a museum!

So do you!

[Jimp]

I'm not sure do all of the Wizardy games have the option, but Wizardry 8 has an iron man (I think) mode where death is permanant. I has other effects too but I can't remember them. Good RPG though.

[Fostire]

If you're hella skilled enough to get every item, you're good enough to steal them back.

I never used the museum but I had heard that you couldn't steal the artifacts back once you sold them.

[Rutskarn]

I never used the museum but I had heard that you couldn't steal the artifacts back once you sold them.

Pretty sure you can.

[Fostire]

Pretty sure you can.

Well that changes things. I guess I'll pay a visit to the museum then.

[Swordlol]

Tales of Symphonia

Amazing game. Amazing plot. Amazing characters.

[Bouregard]

Are there any RPG games that take forever to beat, are fun the whole way but are not just ''More grinding through level after level''. Ideally, death should result in complete restart, but tthat's optional. And don't say dwarf forteress. For computer. (windows XP).

Gothic I or Gothic II+addon (NOT Gothic III! NO NO NO!)
They are famous for their good difficult, funny and you're probaly 40h busy for each part. If you play it the first time, make it 60h (If you are fluently in german I would recommand you the original german edition....)


Morrowind.... I like it.

While not that hard, Mass Effect is also fairly good. But new RPGs with quality are kind of rare...

Maybe Thief 1&2 and Deus Ex are also options for you

[chiasaur11]

You know, given the mention of Bioshock and other semi-RPGs, I figure X-COM might be worth a mention. Some light RPG elements in soldier growth, beatable without reload scumming (although it's hard to do), fun all the way through, not grindy, only five bucks on steam, and runs on any modern computer.

Might be worth a look.

[Vmag]

I meant I don't want grinding through level up after level up, unless this takes me to many different and exotic places

That's Sword of the Samurai in a nutshell.

You have stats, sure, but you don't have experience points, nor levels. You do travel throughout exotic locales.

Pretty much, you play as a simple Samurai. Your Clan and your family expertise determine your starting Land, Honor, Swordsmanship, Generalship, and number of Samurai under your command. You can increase these stats through various methods, but there are no levels or grinding required.

Your goal is to go from a simple Samurai to mighty Shogun, be it within your lifetime or several generations (your male offpsring continue for you if you die or retire at old age). In your way are rivals of your clan, who all want to advance their station through honorable and dishonorable acts - and you can do every dirty trick they can, too.

It's a very deep and immersive game. I totally recommend it.

[Cespenar]

Both Avernum and Geneforge from Spiderweb Software are well-written RPGs that have an extensive world, lots of sidequests, secrets, etc.

Only thing they lack is graphics. Not that it should matter.

[quick_comment]

Wow, another Sword of the Samurai fan? I've never met another person who's heard of it. The one problem with it is that the minigames are not very balanced against each other; for instance I found it very much easier to succeed in sword duels than anything else. As such, my strategy of playing to win involves as frequently as possible meeting with my rivals solely to insult them, hoping that they'll challenge me to a duel so I can kill them. Which, well, is a strange way to become Shogun.

Roguelikes fit your description almost exactly, permadeath and all. Someone's already mentioned ADOM and NetHack, so I'll put in a vote for my personal favourite: GearHead (http://www.gearheadrpg.com). It's a mecha-themed RPG. It doesn't quite have permadeath (which is unusual for a roguelike), but assuming you don't save-scum, "dying" will often set you back a lot, since mecha can be lost permanently.

Get the original game, not the sequel, as it's a much more complete game -- the sequel is still under development. Both ASCII and graphics versions are available; I vastly prefer ASCII but your tastes may differ.

[factotum]

No love for The Witcher in this thread? Given that you're playing a human who's been chemically mutated to be superhuman in most aspects, but has lost his memory and needs to relearn all his skills, it certainly doesn't fit the template given by Rutskarn earlier!

[Myatar_Panwar]

Yeah The Witcher is pretty awesome. I really need to get back to it one of these days...

[shadow_archmagi]

Fallout 3 (and the rest of the series) are extremely open ended and you can do a lot of exploring. The main plot is pretty short but there is a vast wealth of side-plots and expansions that add new areas.

It does have a traditional level-up system, but I never felt like I was grinding. Just that I was exploring, doing odd jobs, and occasionally HEY! I can shoot my gun better! What a lovely surprise!

[Gorgondantess]

I never used the museum but I had heard that you couldn't steal the artifacts back once you sold them.

Yep, you can. Best thing is though: once you steal them back, if you're really good, you can sell them again. And again. And again. And again. By the time you've sold them all and stolen them back you won't need money anymore because you'll have about 10 million gold, but it's still hilarious.:smallbiggrin:

Anyhow, if you want a really good RPG, one of the most unappreciated ones I've ever played is Jade Empire. Great plot, great story, pretty long but not so open ended- nevertheless, a good play.:smallsmile:

[Dragon Elite]

Both Avernum and Geneforge from Spiderweb Software are well-written RPGs that have an extensive world, lots of sidequests, secrets, etc.

Only thing they lack is graphics. Not that it should matter.

I can second that.

[warty goblin]

Yeah The Witcher is pretty awesome. I really need to get back to it one of these days...

I have a love-hate relationship with the Witcher. I love every bit of the game except for the horrible, horrible boss fights. I hate those so much they are usually enough to make me stop playing for a few months before winding my way back to it, reloading a save just prior, and making potions like nobody's business.

Other than the boss fights though, it's easily the best RPG I've played. The lack of obvious morality system and good or bad choices is wonderful, as are the very hard choices the game occasionally forces you to make.


At the moment I'm having a good time with Drakensang: The Dark Eye. It's very much in the Neverwinter Nights school of RPGs, although strangly much, much less obnoxious. Partly this is because most people are outside, minimizing load times, and partly it's because the system is simply more enjoyable to work with than D&D. Mostly it just knows exactly what it is- a very typical RPG- and is comfortable enough with that to have some fun along the way.

It is very light on the grinding, and the locals are definitely pretty. None of them so far have been exotic, but hardly eye poison. Also, as is often the case with games made in Europe, it has colors. Grass is green in Drakensang, not greenish brown. There are flowers.

[Miss Nobody]

Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 + the addon and Planescape : Torment are two good old RPG's.
The first two Fallout games might also satisfy your request.
I remember playing a little bit of Arcanum : Of Steamworks And Magic Obscura many years ago and enjoying it.
Gothic 1, 2 and the addon should keep you busy and there's not much level grinding.
TES 3 : Morrowind takes a lot to explore and there are lots of interesting things to see and do.
The Witcher. Best. Morality. Ever.
Drakensang is nice too.

[Triaxx]

Sacred is an Action/RPG but you can spend months on end wasting time in it. And it has a sequel but I don't have a recommendation.

Temple of Elemental Evil will have you spending upwards of 40 hours, but that's just one fight. :smallamused:

[Freako]

I think this game (http://babarageo.com/flash/ginormo/index.html) is exactly what you're looking for. :smallbiggrin:

WARNING: Link may contain not-so-graphic violence, endless grindfests, and impossibly large swords. Click at own risk.

[Winthur]

Original Fallouts made IN AMERICA!

Seriously. The only games that can compete with Fallouts 1 and 2 in "General Amount of Sweet Honey You Can Suck Out Of 'Em" are Baldur's Gate series and Planescape: Torment.

So, generally play through the troika of Fallout, Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment. Then, watch some Clint Eastwood movies. Then, make out with some hot actress (Jennifer Morrison for example). Then you're set. You may die, because your life has been fulfilled.

Fallout 3 is also a good game, but I believe that original Fallouts are better.

Also, Contra. It never gets old. :smallsmile:

From the fresher games, The Witcher definitely.

[pita]

PLanescape Torment is the greatest computer game ever.
Play it or die.
It also fits your criteria.