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seedjar
2009-07-23, 01:13 PM
So, I'm reaching that strange and terrifying part of life when parenthood looms close for me and my peers. My next gaming group is looking to be comprised of several parent/child pairs, and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience or sage advice for this kind of thing. I know I've seen plenty of stuff on designing campaigns for beginning players, young players, etc., but I'm not sure I've ever come across a guide for running a game that both adults and kids can enjoy.
The first session may have as many as six or seven players. In order of their likelihood of actually showing up, I have one of my co-workers, a savvy and sociably geeky guy in his early thirties, and his son, 12, who has played a few D&D games with his dad as the DM and school friends for players. They sound like they could be a lot of fun - from what my buddy says, his son has yet to learn about min-maxing, munchkinism and such, so I'm excited at the idea of having a player that isn't explicitly trying to ruin my plans at every turn. ;D Next would be my neighbor (approximately same age as my work friend) and his 11-year-old daughter. He's expressed some interest in trying D&D in the past, and whenever I'm over at their house to play videogames or something, she's right at home kicking butt and trading put-downs with her dad's nerdy friends. There are some other neighbors (closer to my age, mid-twenties) from down the street that were curious about dropping in for a game, and I know one of them has a cousin or nephew that she spends time with regularly, so I'll probably invite them as well if this officially becomes a kind of parent/child gaming group.
I have a few ideas about what I'll need to do already. I'll definitely be making a simpler adventure than usual to start - some sort of treasure map premise or similar - and probably pre-made characters too, as half or more of my players will be new to tabletop gaming in general. I was also thinking it would be a good idea to find a dice-less, or dice-light story-based gaming system (Geiger Counter?) to use for more freeform parts of the game, since some of the players may not have a lot of patience for looking up rules and consulting random encounter tables. I'm waiting until I can get some info on what kind of game my players are interested in, but generally speaking I'm planning on focusing on exploration and problem-solving, with maybe a little suspense and light horror in the setting. I'd like to have the option of throwing in combat whenever it makes sense or the action is slowing down, but from what I've heard initially combat is not the primary interest of these players.
Anyways, that was a little longwinded, but any advice, experiences, or reference materials you could offer would be great help.
Thanks,
~Joe

valadil
2009-07-23, 01:59 PM
I've had some younger players in groups a while back. Try not to patronize them. They're people too. The sort of 12 year old who plays D&D is probably mature for his age.

But you should make sure you don't let the older players steamroll the younger ones. I don't think this will be an issue since it's a kid/parent thing but you might want to watch out for it all the same. Just make sure everyone at the table gets a say.

aivanther
2009-07-23, 02:19 PM
Having worked with families in general, I would say you need to make one important rule: If you are going to discipline your child, you must take them out and away from the group to do it (outside, another room, etc). If it's more than once, you need to leave. All conflicts are otherwise settled by DM.

Seriously, overcoming the parent/child relationship is nigh impossible. It's just the way it is, so you have to be up front over where or how you do some of these things to make sure everyone is having fun and group conflicts don't be come real life conflicts.

herrhauptmann
2009-07-23, 02:21 PM
I'd be more worried about the adults being a little too controlling regarding what their associated minor does in the game.
Like in character stopping the 11 and 12 year olds from getting 'drunk' in the tavern, even when no ones characters know each other when the game starts off.

Lay off some of the more adult themes. Like if a villain needs to be shown as irrevocably evil, have him kick the dog, instead of shooting or raping the dog.

Other than that, have fun.

Blackjackg
2009-07-23, 02:33 PM
I'd say in a mixed parent-child game, the game is probably mostly about making sure the kids have fun. If the dads have fun too, that's great, but it's a secondary goal. To that end, have a chat with the parents beforehand, and suggest that maybe they should make characters who are their kid's sidekicks or something of that nature. A traditional all-players-are-created-equal scenario wouldn't be fun for anyone, as parents would easily outthink and outplay their kids.

At least with younger kids. At 11 or 12 years of age, this probably won't be as big a deal as I suggest above, but it's better to play it safe. The last thing you want is kids feeling like their parents are stealing their thunder.

Naturally, you want to keep things fairly light. No hardcore sex or depraved evil cults. Depending on the maturity of the kids involved (I'm thinking of the 11-y.o. girl here), you might want to homebrew it so that monsters don't even die, they just faint and disappear (like Pokemon!).

Presumably, the parents involved will understand both of the above suggestions. If they don't, maybe suggest running an adults-only game on another night, or after the kids have gone to bed.

I think this could be a lot of fun for you. Good luck, and let us know if it comes together.

seedjar
2009-07-23, 02:40 PM
Like if a villain needs to be shown as irrevocably evil, have him kick the dog, instead of shooting or raping the dog.

Pshaw. Fine. All that planning for nothing.
*gets out the BIG eraser*
:P
Seriously, though, I'm pretty good with kids, so I think it should go over well. Younger kids (around four to eight) tend to spook me but once they've learned to hold a real conversation we usually hit it off. I was very precocious as a child and always preferred the company of adults, and I guess as an adult that's kind of carried over into treating kids like mature individuals (unless they give me reason to think otherwise.)
The advice on disciplining is good - that wasn't something I had even begun to think about. I don't think it should ever become a problem, though, as these kids are pretty well behaved to begin with and are also old enough to know how to act at social events. But still, it'll be a good thing to get out of the way in advance when I go over the ground rules and appropriate content stuff with the other grups.
I think that adult themes will probably be OK into the PG-13 and light R realms, judging by what I know of the parents. So long as it's not really explicit; "adult" topics like alcohol, violence and sex are not taboo among these families. I just have to be a little more tactful than I am with my usual group of military guys and college students.
~Joe

Froogleyboy
2009-07-23, 02:42 PM
I'm 14 and I play with people from 20 - 40

PLUN
2009-07-23, 02:47 PM
Make sharing really easy. Treasure comes in neatly pieces. Less natural but worth it. Makes everyone feel like they got something. Stops them losing interest in the spoils. Hell, I like to do this for adults. Stops them fighting.

seedjar
2009-07-23, 02:48 PM
To that end, have a chat with the parents beforehand, and suggest that maybe they should make characters who are their kid's sidekicks or something of that nature. A traditional all-players-are-created-equal scenario wouldn't be fun for anyone, as parents would easily outthink and outplay their kids.

I had that idea too! I was thinking it might be funny to get one of the kids to play a knight or paladin and the parent to be their page. I may also offer the kids some stronger-than-usual character creation options; I know my work friend specifically told me that his son likes to roleplay and come up with creative solutions to problems, so I'm hoping he might be able to handle something like a monstrous race or an "overpowered" base class like druid. But I think we'll have a test session first before jumping into a full campaign and permanent characters.


Naturally, you want to keep things fairly light. No hardcore sex or depraved evil cults. Depending on the maturity of the kids involved (I'm thinking of the 11-y.o. girl here), you might want to homebrew it so that monsters don't even die, they just faint and disappear (like Pokemon!).

Actually, I halfway expect that she'll be the more violent of the two expected youngsters. I haven't met my co-worker's son yet, but this girl is a little hellraiser.
~Joe

seedjar
2009-07-23, 02:56 PM
I'm 14 and I play with people from 20 - 40

Good to know, Froogley. I hope you don't mind my asking - how did you get involved with your group? Are they just the regulars at your local comic shop or what? Also, do you ever feel like your age alienates you from the group? Is it ever hard for the older players to relate to your viewpoints or vice versa? I'm curious to hear your perspective and how the group dynamic works out. When I was first getting into roleplaying games, I also played with a college-age crowd as an early teen, and I sometimes had some difficulties. There was a lot of self-consciousness of my lack of real-life experience while trying to RP older characters, and I also sometimes occasionally felt that the older players would gang up on me with the "oh, he's just a kid" routine (which would usually piss me off enough to get me acting immaturely if I weren't already.) But altogether, I think it was a very positive experience for me.
~Joe

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-07-23, 03:02 PM
If the 9 year old you are playing with is names Sally it will be an AWESOME game

http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0018.html
http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0020.html
http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0026.html

seedjar
2009-07-23, 03:28 PM
Make sharing really easy. Treasure comes in neatly pieces. Less natural but worth it. Makes everyone feel like they got something. Stops them losing interest in the spoils. Hell, I like to do this for adults. Stops them fighting.

I have non-traditional views on treasure and equipment - I'm more of the bent that if the party finds something, it should be there for a reason other than, "Because the meat shield needs a better crit range." Random rewards are much more likely to be trade items or rarities than monies (coins, gems, etc.) or fancy equipment. Thugs don't carry anything but worn mundane equipment and some basic necessities; if my players want a magic sword, they need to go find someone who would have a magic sword and buy it/steal it/fight for it/beg for it. Piles of gold are appropriate in some contexts like dragon hoards, but I think treasure shouldn't just be cash in the pocket. Raiding a trade caravan is much more interesting if the resulting goods are hot and need to be fenced to a naïve merchant in a far-off city. Cleaning out a dungeon takes a lot more thought when you've got to fit your haul on a rickety cart and a problematic donkey. The upside to this is that most of my treasure fits the schema of "Get junk, find a good buying price, get gold," so it's inherently divisible. (It even leaves some of the dynamics of traditional hauls - players squabble over what they should keep, who they should sell to, how much time to spend trying to sell it and how the money gets divided up. I think it's lots of fun.)
That said, there will be accessible "treasure" type items one way or another in these games, because I like working with them (and I've found it's often the easiest way to hold players' attention.) Probably I'll stick in an item-crafting NPC prominently, or make a good magic shop available somehow. Aside from that, my dungeon and encounter designs are usually full of random things that players can find uses for. I also like to drop hints and develop the story with unique (and usually mundane) items; diaries, treasure maps, tools, etc. ("Why would this undertaker need a multimeter? Unless the ghost is really...") I also don't really stick too strictly to the normal D&D pacing of experience points and wealth-by-level, so magic items aren't strictly necessary to keep pace in most of my games; they can give all their money to the dancing monkey outside the pub at the end of the day if that's a satisfying reward for a successful dungeon crawl.
~Joe