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quick_comment
2009-07-23, 01:15 PM
Other than improved critical/keen/keen weapon, falchion, scythe, disciple of dispater, coup de grace weapons, bodyfeeder/soulfeeder and elemental burst weapons, what else exists to enhance critical hits?

jmbrown
2009-07-23, 01:22 PM
You mean increasing the threat range or increasing damage?

You pretty much mentioned everything that increases threat range.

As far as damage goes you have "burst" abilities and some feats that only work on critical hits like resounding blow from BoED.

NEO|Phyte
2009-07-23, 01:24 PM
Tome of Battle has the stance Blood in the Water, which gives a stacking +1 to attack and damage for each critical hit you land, resetting back to no bonus if you go a minute without landing a crit.

This bonus can be triggered when fighting crit-immune foes, and the bonus applies against such foes.

Telonius
2009-07-23, 01:25 PM
Multiweapon Fighting comes to mind.

Resounding Blow and Quell the Profane from BoED deliver status on a successful crit vs. evil foes.
Power Critical from CWar improves the confirm roll.
Telling Blow from PHB2 allows you to add skirmish and/or sneak dice after every critical.

iain62a
2009-07-23, 01:35 PM
Isn't there a weapon master prestige class that increases the threat range and the critical multiplier?

Eloel
2009-07-23, 01:38 PM
Isn't there a weapon master prestige class that increases the threat range and the critical multiplier?

That's 3.0 (and NWN1)

Telonius
2009-07-23, 01:42 PM
Isn't there a weapon master prestige class that increases the threat range and the critical multiplier?

I'm fairly sure Weapon Master did this, but for only one weapon. It was 3.0, but I don't believe it was ever updated, so I suppose it's technically still available.

In 3.5, Master Thrower has an ability that increases the critical multiplier for thrown weapons.

In 3.0, the Deepwood Sniper PrC had a similar effect on ranged.

Zincorium
2009-07-23, 01:48 PM
Kaorti resin, gives any weapon a x4 critical multiplier. It's on WotC's site somewhere.

And there's a cleric spell which I think counts a single attack roll as a nat 20 (Moment of fortune?) but I've only heard about it in passing.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-07-23, 01:54 PM
Lightning Maces adds an extra attack each time you roll a Crit with a Mace.
Aptitude makes any weapon(say, a Kukri) count as any other for the purposes of feats. Like, say, Lightning Maces.

Curmudgeon
2009-07-23, 02:29 PM
To increase damage on critical hits, you want constant (non-dice) bonuses. The Craven feat adds +1 point per character level to sneak attack damage, so that works very nicely. The Knowledge Devotion feat gives bonuses (up to +5) to attack and damage, so that's also good. Power Attack's bonus to damage is also a constant.

Sliver
2009-07-23, 03:18 PM
Warblade gives you INT bonus to confirm crits no?

AstralFire
2009-07-23, 03:25 PM
This bonus can be triggered when fighting crit-immune foes

While a reasonable houserule, I don't see that anywhere in the entry. As it is untyped, however:


and the bonus applies against such foes.

is correct.

Anyway, it's great. I usually allow keen and improved crit to stack, I had one player during a castle siege session pretty much become a small god up until he took too many arrows and had to hide to wait for healing. Took a while though, because once he got the notice of the archers, he already had such a big bonus that he dumped a lot of it into Expertise (which I houserule to have a BAB limit.)

Talya
2009-07-23, 03:32 PM
I'm fairly sure Weapon Master did this, but for only one weapon. It was 3.0, but I don't believe it was ever updated, so I suppose it's technically still available.


All of this is correct. 3.0 material is by RAW still valid if unupdated, and Weapon Master was not. It's in Sword & Fist, starting on page 38. You need to already have the improved critical feat for the weapon in question by Weapon Master level 7, and then it boosts your threat range by +2.

It also has an improved multiplier, but that's only usable X times/day. (declared after the crit, though, so it's not bad.)

AstralFire
2009-07-23, 03:34 PM
According to WotC, the Weapon Master was updated in the form of two classes, the EWM and the Kensai. As it bears less relation to these classes mechanically than 3.0 Psionics to 3.5, I call poodoo on that and I think most DMs will as well - but just FYI.

theMycon
2009-07-23, 03:43 PM
...for each critical hit you land...

...This bonus can be triggered when fighting crit-immune foes...

How do you land a crit on something that can't be critted?

AstralFire
2009-07-23, 03:46 PM
How do you land a crit on something that can't be critted?

Some of the later critical hit abilities in 3.5 trigger when something 'would be a crit' were you fighting something else. Can't name any off-hand, but it's partially because crit monkeys take it hard very fast, and partially because anything except for an amorphous blob can be a logical subject of a critical hit.

John Campbell
2009-07-23, 04:25 PM
How do you land a crit on something that can't be critted?



Magic Weapons and Critical Hits:

Some weapon qualities and some specific weapons have an extra effect on a critical hit. This special effect functions against creatures not subject to critical hits, such as undead, elementals, and constructs. When fighting against such creatures, roll for critical hits as you would against humanoids or any other creature subject to critical hits. On a successful critical roll, apply the special effect, but do not multiply the weapon's regular damage.
I assume it works the same way for feats and other abilities.

Talya
2009-07-23, 04:33 PM
According to WotC, the Weapon Master was updated in the form of two classes, the EWM and the Kensai. As it bears less relation to these classes mechanically than 3.0 Psionics to 3.5, I call poodoo on that and I think most DMs will as well - but just FYI.

I've never seen them say that Kensai or EWM were meant to be an update of weapon master. Which isn't to say they haven't, but I haven't seen it. It also seems like an odd statement, since neither of them have anything in common with the S&F weapon master class at all.

Of course, 3.0 Weapon Master is just not all that good, so I wouldn't complain much.

AstralFire
2009-07-23, 04:38 PM
I've never seen them say that Kensai or EWM were meant to be an update of weapon master. Which isn't to say they haven't, but I haven't seen it. It also seems like an odd statement, since neither of them have anything in common with the S&F weapon master class at all.

Of course, 3.0 Weapon Master is just not all that good, so I wouldn't complain much.

It's on their list somewhere of 3.0 material that received updates, or maybe it's with the S&F errata. I can't recall. I've definitely seen it, I got the link from here originally, in fact. The post-3.5 sales of the Sword and Fist PDF also come with that marked by the class.

I would still like to see a 3.5 update of the Weapon Master, because I liked a lot of its abilities, even if it wasn't good. But I'm too lazy to do it myself.

Talic
2009-07-23, 04:54 PM
While a reasonable houserule, I don't see that anywhere in the entry.

Doesn't need to be in the entry.

Such creatures aren't immune to critical hits. They're just immune to extra damage from critical hits. You may still crit them, it just has no standard effect, other than triggering abilities which happen on a critical hit.

Darrin
2009-07-23, 10:36 PM
It's on their list somewhere of 3.0 material that received updates, or maybe it's with the S&F errata. I can't recall. I've definitely seen it, I got the link from here originally, in fact.

Officially, yes, the 3.0 Weapon Master has been updated as the Exotic Weapon Master. Link:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050110x

And yes, I agree, the EWM has absolutely nothing to do with the 3.0 Weapon Master.

You might want to look at the Psychic Weapon Master, which has been updated to 3.5, and bears more of a resemblance to the 3.0 Weapon Master:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d

The requirements for it, though... *ugh*. However, it is one of the few legal ways in 3.5 to increase your crit range beyond Improved Critical. Too bad you can't easily mix crystal weapons and kaorti resin together.

SethFahad
2009-07-23, 10:54 PM
There is a weapon material called "Abyssal Blood Iron" wich grants you a +4 bonus to confirm crits.
Do what I've done: wield a large (size) Great Falchion (twohanded) made from ABI and add Keen enhancement and voila! 3d6 damage 15-20/x2 threat range and a +4 to confirm. feel free to add more...

Talic
2009-07-23, 11:09 PM
I hear Disciple of Dispater is pretty good for crits, as are Aptitude weapons and Lightning Mace Style.

Tharivol123
2009-07-23, 11:15 PM
Weapon master, as has been suggested. Also, if working as a ranger you could grab Favored Critical and Supernatural Critical from Masters of the Wild. Favored Crit doubles the crit range against one favored enemy and stacks with keen, but not improved critical. Supernatural Critical allows you to do an additional 1d6 to a favored enemy otherwise immune to critical hits, in addition to all your regular favored enemy damage.
Somewhere out there is a weapon property called massive criticals, but can't remember where and if its 3rd edition or not.

SethFahad
2009-07-23, 11:19 PM
Somewhere out there is a weapon property called massive criticals, but can't remember where and if its 3rd edition or not.

I think it's NWN 3.0

Tharivol123
2009-07-23, 11:27 PM
I think it's NWN 3.0

I know I've had it on NWN, but I've run across it in a tradition P&P game as well. It very well could have been a house rule as one of my old DMs is fond of those.

Edit: Was indeed a house rule. Same cost as adding an additional +1 to weapon, does additional damage equal to the base damage of the weapon. Thus, making a regular longsword massive critical would equal the cost of a +1 longsword and an extra 1d8 on a critical hit, in addition to normal damage. Cost seems a little strange to me, but I'm sure another DM could modify it to fit their preferences.

Ganurath
2009-07-23, 11:27 PM
Warblade with Blood in the Water stance using the Aptitude/Lightning Mace combo gets a ridiculously number of crits and attacks, with scaling damage and accuracy with each crit. If you really want to go crazy, give your kukris lightning burst, or the sonic equivolent thereof if there is one.

Lightning Blood Warblade: "Charge of the Raging Mongoose!"

*kill... anything that can be dealt damage in melee, really*

Warblade: "Am I famous yet?"

SethFahad
2009-07-23, 11:36 PM
ELH p.53

Devastating Critical [Epic]

Every critical hit roll Fort save or die instantly.(DC=10+1/2 your character level+str mod)

Myrmex
2009-07-23, 11:42 PM
Where's lightning maces and aptitude from?

SethFahad
2009-07-23, 11:57 PM
Where's lightning maces and aptitude from?

Tome of Battle - Book of Nine Swords p148

Edit: oh... CW p113

lsfreak
2009-07-24, 12:12 AM
Lightning Maces is from Complete Warrior. Weapon Aptitude is a warblade class feature and lets you change weapon-specific feats to other weapons. RAI this almost certainly means only Weapon Focus and the like, but RAW it works on things like Lightning Maces.

Warblade1, for Blood in the Water and Weapon Aptitude
Disciple of Dispater8, for tripled threat range and +2atk/dmg
Improved Critical, up to quadrupled threat range
Kaorti Resin, changes multiplier to x4
Impact (+1 enhancement), flat +5dmg on the weapon (and therefore multiplied by criticals)
Telling Blow, add sneak attack to all critical strikes
Craven, adds level to all sneak attacks (and therefore multiplied by criticals)
Subtlety (20.000gp, houserule only) adds flat +4atk/dmg on sneak attacks (from sword of subtlety, DMG)
Lightning Maces, extra attack on every crit

At level 20 with a +5 weapon you'd be averaging ~160 damage per crit with a 9-20 crit range, 8 base attacks with each one having a 55% chance of netting another attack and an additional +1atk/dmg. I don't remember my statistics class enough to know how many attacks you'd get in the average round, but it's a *lot*.

Darrin
2009-07-24, 05:22 PM
Lightning Maces is from Complete Warrior. Weapon Aptitude is a warblade class feature and lets you change weapon-specific feats to other weapons. RAI this almost certainly means only Weapon Focus and the like, but RAW it works on things like Lightning Maces.


You're confusing the Warblade's class ability with a magic weapon enhancement. Aptitude Weapon is a +1 magic weapon ability that has nothing to do with the Warblade's class features. It allows a magic weapon to be used with certain feats that only apply to certain weapons. Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and Greater Weapon Specialization are specifically mentioned. It's not clear by RAW if this works with feats such as Lightning Maces or Shadow Blade, but most folks treat it as RAI.

NEO|Phyte
2009-07-24, 05:34 PM
It's not clear by RAW if this works with feats such as Lightning Maces or Shadow Blade, but most folks treat it as RAI.

As-written, the argument for it working with Lightning Maces is a fairly good one. It lets you use the weapon with any feats you have that apply to a SPECIFIC weapon. Lightning Maces is specific to light maces.

Shadow Blade gets fuzzier, as it works with a SET of weapons.

Heliomance
2009-07-24, 06:32 PM
Officially, yes, the 3.0 Weapon Master has been updated as the Exotic Weapon Master. Link:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050110x

And yes, I agree, the EWM has absolutely nothing to do with the 3.0 Weapon Master.


I'm pretty sure that must actually be a mistake, because I'd imagine that the Exotic Weapon master is really the update of the Exotic Weapon Master from Masters of the Wild.

woodenbandman
2009-07-24, 08:22 PM
How about that feat, I think it's called Brutal Strike or something, that allows sneak attack on a critical hit. That + Penetrating Strike + Craven should be pretty good.

Berserk Monk
2009-07-24, 08:28 PM
Other than improved critical/keen/keen weapon, falchion, scythe, disciple of dispater, coup de grace weapons, bodyfeeder/soulfeeder and elemental burst weapons, what else exists to enhance critical hits?

Check out something called a Goliath Greathammer. x4 crit modifier and it does d12 damage if you're medium sized. Take monkey grip for it, and a medium creature does 3d6 damage with it (12d6 damage when you crit).

Also, there's a feat in complete warrior that gives you a +4 bonus to confirm a crit. (and it stacks with itself).

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-07-24, 10:50 PM
Check out something called a Goliath Greathammer. x4 crit modifier and it does d12 damage if you're medium sized. Take monkey grip for it, and a medium creature does 3d6 damage with it (12d6 damage when you crit).

Also, there's a feat in complete warrior that gives you a +4 bonus to confirm a crit. (and it stacks with itself).Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer deals 1d12, 19-20x4, in MM4 IIRC. Exotic.

Talic
2009-07-25, 12:31 AM
Khaorti Resin turns any weapon to a x4.

So put it on scimitars, get an 18-20/x4.
Improved Crit makes that 15-20/x4.
DoD makes it 12-20/x4.

Greater 2 weapon fighting makes you have 6 or so attacks on a full attack. Lion totem Barb makes the full attack work on charge, so if you can get a flanking charge, you can get a lot of hits. Assuming you hit on a 12 or better, you can expect around 10 or so attacks per round.

Get your weapons blessed, per bless weapon, and you autoconfirm versus evil creatures, which means that you'll get around 5-6 crits a round, on average.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-07-25, 12:38 AM
Khaorti Resin turns any weapon to a x4.

So put it on scimitars, get an 18-20/x4.
Improved Crit makes that 15-20/x4.
DoD makes it 12-20/x4.

Greater 2 weapon fighting makes you have 6 or so attacks on a full attack. Lion totem Barb makes the full attack work on charge, so if you can get a flanking charge, you can get a lot of hits. Assuming you hit on a 12 or better, you can expect around 10 or so attacks per round.

Get your weapons blessed, per bless weapon, and you autoconfirm versus evil creatures, which means that you'll get around 5-6 crits a round, on average.Toss in Aptitude and Lightning Maces and you turn each of those crits into another hit. Which, if it crits, turns into another hit. And then add Great Cleave and Combat Reflexes...

Curmudgeon
2009-07-25, 12:55 AM
How about that feat, I think it's called Brutal Strike or something, that allows sneak attack on a critical hit.
Telling Blow, from Players Handbook II.

Talic
2009-07-25, 01:02 AM
Toss in Aptitude and Lightning Maces and you turn each of those crits into another hit. Which, if it crits, turns into another hit. And then add Great Cleave and Combat Reflexes...

That was assuming Lightning Aptitude.