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oxinabox
2009-07-24, 04:54 AM
Sanctify Ki Strike
reqs Cha 15, Improved Unarmed Strike, Ki strike (lawful) +1
for +1d4 bonus on unarmed damage rolls against evil creatures

Sanctify Martial Strike Cha 15, Weapon Focus with the specified weapon +1
for +1d4 bonus on weapon damage rolls against evil creatures

Is this some sort of mistake?
Anyone who doesn't fight with their natural weapons gan get it from vertually lvl 1. with weapon focus as a prereq.
But Monks don't get ki stike (Lawful) til lvl 10.
long time to wait for a measly +1d4.
By that lvl you could have one lvl of drunken master and get +1d4 from picking up a stone, against everyone.

Also there is no kistike Holy that i can find\

could use:
Sanctify Natural Attack:
reqs: One or more natural weapon attacks, base attack bonus +5 rolls against evil creatures.
for +1 or +1d4 bonus on natural attack damage.

But that asill require high lvl.

Would those two stack?

Keld Denar
2009-07-24, 05:06 AM
There is an Alt Class Feature in Complete Champion that allows a monk to exchange their 4th level ability to bypass DR/Magic for the ability to bypass DR/Good AND get a bonus +1d6 holy damage on all attacks vs evil creatures.

Regardless, both of those feats are bad, simpley because they require you to be Ewwxalted, which, in the hands of a devious DM, is worse than just about anything. BoED is sooo poorly done and sooo poorly balanced that I wouldn't recommend its use to anyone for any reason. There are about 4 good things in that book, and the rest is either amazingly underwhelming (like the 2 feats you mentioned) or amazingly retardedly broken (Starmantle Cloak?).

JellyPooga
2009-07-24, 05:07 AM
Strictly a Monk could take all three of those feats. Their Unarmed Strike feature specifies that their unarmed attacks count as both weapons and natural attacks, so their unarmed strike counts as a weapon for Sanctify Martial Strike, a natural attack for Sanctify Natural Attack and an unarmed strike for Sanctify Ki Strike. Having said that, +3d4 damage vs evil creatures is really just not worth 3 feats...

oxinabox
2009-07-24, 05:19 AM
Strictly a Monk could take all three of those feats. Their Unarmed Strike feature specifies that their unarmed attacks count as both weapons and natural attacks, so their unarmed strike counts as a weapon for Sanctify Martial Strike, a natural attack for Sanctify Natural Attack and an unarmed strike for Sanctify Ki Strike. Having said that, +3d4 damage vs evil creatures is really just not worth 3 feats...
It is when you get 5 of them free for VOw of poverty along with a stack of AC impovemenents Totaling to +8 wich stacks with monk lvls. and +1 ehancement to unarmed att and dmg.
I'ld also need weapon focus unarmed.

I'ld say the bellow counts as ki stike (holy),


There is an Alt Class Feature in Complete Champion that allows a monk to exchange their 4th level ability to bypass DR/Magic for the ability to bypass DR/Good AND get a bonus +1d6 holy damage on all attacks vs evil creatures.


so I can get:

Holy Ki Strike, re ki stike (holy) Cha 15, Improved Unarmed Strike, +2d6 bonus on damage rolls against evil replaces sactify.

I just need to work out a way to get ki stike lawful early.

This would give me a total of +2 to attack
and
+3d6+2d4 agaist evil. (plus normal d10+1)
Not bad when you do hat 3 times per round

so those 4 allong with intuitive stike (sunstitute wisdom for str on aunarmed attack rolls)
makes my 5 ehalted feats.


BTW this is for a theoretical one shot dungeon craw, where we will be fighting almost exclusivly evil

Keld Denar
2009-07-24, 05:23 AM
Or...just take 1 feat called Tashalatora, multiclass in PsyWar after Monk2, and manifest Expansion on yourself to increase your unarmed strike WAY more than wasting 5 feat or whatever, and still be able to smack down animals and constructs at full efficiency. No sense in throwing away bad for worse!

oxinabox
2009-07-24, 06:02 AM
Oh my god i looked that up.
That is So broken It's not funny!

All the best monk features, Plus all the pysic warior features.
If i wanted to trash the game, i'ld do both, it wouldn't trash as much a not doijng both though.

I wish i could say that was the most broken thing i've see today.

Only... well it doesn't touch it.
Reduacing on of my players on falling rules (he wants to fall out of thje sky and do 20d6, and i still haven't found away to prevnet him from smashing straight through a ship).
No do mention trying to my trying to use punpun to kill an overdiety (it was a purly theortical discussion, but PunPun lost. assuming the preexistance of an overdiety punpun can only ever loose.)

TSED
2009-07-24, 06:14 AM
No, assuming the overdeity interferes with ascension. Otherwise, Pun Pun can beat anything, as he has infinite actions in every round, forever. Not even an overdeity can deal with him once he has finished the necessary ground work.



ANYWAYS: I would probably make the feats do something like... I don't know... smite evil uses, as if they were a paladin of character level? Paladins get double uses and etc.

oxinabox
2009-07-24, 06:22 AM
No, assuming the overdeity interferes with ascension. Otherwise, Pun Pun can beat anything, as he has infinite actions in every round, forever. Not even an overdeity can deal with him once he has finished the necessary ground work.

The overdiety dives my four rounds.
One round is enough to become punpun. and do everythign else.
I take powers that Explcity kill overdietites.
I kill him.
He comesback from the dead.
and moves time backwards 4 rounds.
It never happened.

oxinabox
2009-07-24, 06:25 AM
I might just play this Tashalatora'd Monk, just o prove how insane it it.
And i'll take vow of povery too 'cos i'll have no need for money.

hmm since i hardly cound as a monk I'll have spare exhalted feats now.
this is a lvl 8 build
Human feats:
Sacred vow
lvl 1: monk feat: Vow of poverty.
lvl 2: monk Monk bonus feat Tashalatora
lvl 3: psiwarrior: feat: monatic training (the thing to stack monk with psi worrior.
psi warrior form then on.
leaving a lvl 6 feat.
3 fighter bonus feats (exluding fighter only feats)
and 5 ehalted feats. (one of with will be intuitive stike: substitute Wis for str for attack rolls)

and No MADependancies.
my wisdom shuld be 22. start 18, +2 from lvling + 2 from vow of poverty.
and my AC... awesome.

Keld Denar
2009-07-24, 06:29 AM
Here is my Tashalatoran Smackdown (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111834) build through level 13. Levels 14-20 would just be more PsyWar and continueing to accumulate PPs and combat buffs like Mind Blank (Personal) and Form of Doom.

I'd still recommend against VoP though, since you don't really have a reliable method of Flight without it, and a few other drawbacks. Still, PsyWar does give you a ton of perks that almost make up for that, especially if you nab Dim Door (Psionic) in there.

oxinabox
2009-07-24, 06:37 AM
ninja'd.
I'l lgo VoP, cos well it'll be neat.
ANd will wit hte wis will pump my AC.
24ish.

And then i caN tell the dm, I gave ALL my money to the poor.
did anyone nice happen to lend me a [*pandimonium silver sigham?*] oh wait lawful good.

Or maybe i can put something in my back story about how i meat a down on his luck low leval wizard i gave him 25,000gp to pay his way through mage school.

years latter he returned and in gratitude cast perminacy greater Mage Armour on me.
And Perminacy Maxaised Owls wisdom.

Now my AC is thirtyish

Keld Denar
2009-07-24, 06:45 AM
VoP prevents you from benefitting from "borrowed" magical gear. You can possess wealth, but only under the assumption that you will pawn it off on the nearest begger at your earliest convenience. You still can't benefit from it. If a VoP character were trapped hurtling infinitely through the astral plane and had a single scroll of Plane Shift that he looted from a slain monster, that character would have to make the decision to use the scroll to return home at the cost of all of his VoP benefits or continue hurtling through the astral plane and hope he runs into something.

It explicitly states that you can't "borrow" magical or other high quality gear from other players. Seriously, read the feat. Its not as good as you think. Pretty much the ENTIRE community here believes that its complete and utter junk for multiple reasons, the least of which is that it only gives you abilities worth ~55% of your total WBL at any given level past 3rd or so.

oxinabox
2009-07-24, 07:18 AM
I though Borrowed items for the pupose of fufilling a holy quest were ok?>
Either way.
If i happen to give all my gold to a wizaard, I don't expect him to do anything for me, i just wounldn't be surprised if he did.

It doesn't say to the nearest begger, you can chose to give it to the church to didstibute, therefore you can give it to a wizard you see poor out side a school.

however a monk build can't benifit from weopons or armour. not once you can out hit any monk weaopons.

and that leave wonderous which admittedly are wonderous, but not as interesting as the VoP abilities.
If they are that underpowered then maybe the dm'll let me take one of the exhalted feats which i don't fully meet the rquirments of.



that character would have to make the decision to use the scroll to return home at the cost of all of his VoP benefits or continue hurtling through the astral plane and hope he runs into something.
Not if he has a sane DM.
Also monks can't cast scrolls, use magic devise in't a class skill, who would put ranks in it, when i have myu friendly party wizard who will can the scroll for me.
with no failure chance

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-07-24, 07:22 AM
You *must* donate your share of the loot to a charity. Circumventing this by donating to your party's "fun the adventurers" charity doesn't work.

oxinabox
2009-07-24, 07:25 AM
A down on his luck wizard is not an adventurur.
He's boy with great interlect for ma socioeconmically disadvantaged position.
Is there any greater charity than giving education to the poor, so they can work there way out?

kamikasei
2009-07-24, 07:31 AM
It's a Sacred Vow. If you're going to try and loophole your way around it, why bother taking it at all? If the DM won't (quite properly) whack you over the head with the BoED for attempting shenanigans, then he may as well just let you have the bonuses and disregard the roleplaying requirements entirely.

TSED
2009-07-24, 07:36 AM
Except that you can live for decades off of, oh, 300 gold pieces. Decades. If that was what he was doing, he'd quit after the first adventure and you'd never hear from him again.


Furthermore, donating such large sums of money to any individual goes past the point of 'charity' and into the realms of 'ridiculous favouritism.' It's like if Bill Gates said he was going to donate half of his estate to charity, and then gave half of it to... I don't know... Vin Deisel. Do you really think that's 'charity'?

On Pun Pun:

The (Ex) ability he gives himself to slay the Overdeity specifically states that it prevents Overdeities from returning to life by any means, bar none. The end. Pun Pun, as expected, wins.

oxinabox
2009-07-24, 07:58 AM
Except that you can live for decades off of, oh, 300 gold pieces. Decades. If that was what he was doing, he'd quit after the first adventure and you'd never hear from him again.

it's true, 1000 gp of wheat will feed a small city (dnd size city) for a year.
Hey if all the poor took vow of poverty the'ld never need to eat.
too bad it has to be a choice.
You'ld think if the god has the power to grant this sort of thing ther would be no poor.


Better yet.
I Donate my money too all the poor, and direct them to to nearest acrane institution.
I use diplomacy to put a good word in there, with the high mage or what ever.
those who don't have any magical aptitude i direct and try to smoth the way into appropriate institutions.
and who knows what will happen in time.
Maybe nothing, that's up to the dm.
But i've done better for them than just donating 10 gold everytime i com acoss it to a begger then not worrying how he afords his next meal (after the month or so you can live off one gold piece).



on punpun



The (Ex) ability he gives himself to slay the Overdeity specifically states that it prevents Overdeities from returning to life by any means, bar none. The end. Pun Pun, as expected, wins.
I was thing ing that.
But it also needs (ort another ability needs to state that all my abilities) to state that it grants the abitltiy to overcome the overdieties complete imunity to Extraordinay, Su and Sp abilities.
andf punpun can't gain god hood with him around



A down on his luck wizard is not an adventurur.
He's boy with great interlect for ma socioeconmically disadvantaged position.
Is there any greater charity than giving education to the poor, so they can work there way out?
__________________
BTW i don't mean to impy that i want him to join the party. I ment for the wizard to go off and gain his full potential, and if wonday he want to thank me, that up to him an the dm.
I ment a difernet wizard to cast the scoll and PC, not a NPC.

TSED
2009-07-24, 08:07 AM
Go for it. Playing a VoP character trying to bring education into the world could be a fun character, but it doesn't change VoP being sub-optimal. Not sure why you'd throw them at wizardly arts when you're a monk, though, as you seem to be thinking...


Pun Pun:

Cheesethrone (Ex).
Pun Pun gains all the divine ranks. All of them. Even if an overdeity does not want him to. Any abilities of any kind that inconvenience or hinder Pun Pun are negated until they would no longer inconvenience or hinder Pun Pun. This ability is passive and always active. Also, Pun Pun automatically succeeds at every die roll. Also, Pun Pun gets all the cute kobold ladies, whose charisma match his when he is around. Also, Pun Pun never has to pay for the pizza or mountain dew. Also, Pun Pun rides shotgun or drives, his choice. Also, Pun Pun's ride is totally sweet. Also, Pun Pun wins.


You really can't stop Pun Pun, but just making up abilities like this is no fun. Anyways, that's enough about him.

jmbrown
2009-07-24, 08:26 AM
There's a reason BoED says "For mature players only." The book isn't about gaining powers or trying to break the system, it's roleplaying fluff for playing a character of the ultimate, unwavering good. As people point out there's dozens of options to increase the power of your character that exist outside of BoED.

BoED is more of a roleplaying supplement than a "GIVE ME MORE POWER" supplement and while their are some powerful stuff in there the DM should never allow it to be used by an opportunistic player without getting slapped upside the head in the end.

oxinabox
2009-07-24, 09:36 AM
throw them at wizardly arts when you're a monk, though, as you seem to be thinking..
SOrry, my bad.
too much time being a wizard.
Actully haven;t played a wizard in months.
Too much time fiddling with builds.


PunPun
If an overdiety can't denythem the they arn't divine ranks (is what iw was told when i tried that)

Keld Denar
2009-07-24, 02:22 PM
Seriously, if I was your DM and you tried to pull that kinda a shifty shuffle with the rules on Sacred Vow, you'd lose all the associated abilities faster than you can say "fighter without bonus feats". Sacred Vows just don't work like that. Exalted is more than just "good". Its unwavering, unquestionable, untaintable good for goodness' sake. Doing anything for selfish reasons (donating to a wizards guild hoping for kickbacks or favors) is self defeating.

And the begger example was just that, an example. You don't have to give it to the first begger you see, but you do have to make sure any portion of your wealth gets to a charitable organization asap, because every day you delay people are starving to death and such.

And the scroll of plane shift example was a quick example on how easy it is for a DM to intentionally or unintentionally place your character in a position where he is totally screwed. Say its not a scroll, but a magical item like a Qual's Feather Token, that anyone can use. Your character would be placed in an essentially no-win situation of getting home vs violating his vow. And thats just one example. I could come up with 10 more without even trying. From a RP point of view, they are scary dangerous for a DM to intentionally or accidentally screw you with. From a mechanical point of view, they are weak, coming to about 55% (slightly more than half!) of your expected WBL and missing out on several important qualities every character should have like Flight, Miss Chance, short range Teleportation, utility tools, and consumables.

But hey, its your character. Don't say we didn't warn you. There are reasons why nearly the whole community thinks contrary to you, and that should bear a bit of weight at least.

oxinabox
2009-07-24, 07:11 PM
but i want to be better than good for the character.
I never said i was donating to get kickbacks, it's just that i wouldn't complain.
in a one of dungeon crawl it/s unlikly to come baclk and bite me seeing as how i not going to play more than one game.
That's what i love asbout one off games.
you can do things that won't work in the long term.
Last one of i played half of a hound arclon (racial class)
Hound archlon are suboptimal. You Don't Get Feats. cos you hit die doesn't increase every lvl.

Hell, if i wanted to cheat the vow i'ld just buy Tomes and permancied spells before taking the vow.



Flight, ... short range Teleportation
Flight and short range teliportation you cna't have at lvl 8.
Not by item.
hound Arlons get once perday long range teliportaion, again not per item