OOTS #670 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Turkish Delight]

Annnddd...that's the end of the arc. Pretty obviously.

[LCR]

Elves are awesome.

[Project_Mayhem]

Cool, came up while I was online

[Twilight Jack]

Utterly badass. I'm looking forward to learning the names of the elven strike team.

[#Raptor]

Well done Elan.
Really looks like he raised his int score lately, huh? :smallsmile:

And the elven strike team... and the almost complete spell list.... niiiiiice! :smallbiggrin:

[Lira]

That's awesome :smallbiggrin:. I love how Team Peregrine knocks off a hobgoblin soldier when they teleport, it's a nice touch.

[Logalmier]

Heh, that comic update thread came a bit to late.:smallamused:

[RMS Oceanic]

That's pretty cool. I wonder whether we'll see them in action or not.

It's nice that Haley and Elan decide to be open about what they did while apart.

[Woodsman]

Elves slow to war? Who'da thought it? :smalltongue:

Good job, Mr. Burlew. This oughta be interesting.

[daggaz]

Sweet i just knew a big one was coming up! THanks giant! =)

[Mando Knight]

Nice work, O-Chul.

...I doubt that Haley's part of the story took more than an hour to tell... they probably "took care" of "something else," as well...

[SPoD]

I think we have now met one of the much-debated "Nine Sides": The Elves.

[Shatteredtower]

Too impressed, nay overwhelmed, by too many things in that strip to say much. Just going to say I enjoyed it and leave it at that.

[Ikialev]

Ochul is awesome. "One saving throw at time", heh. ^
Also, who are those guys, except for 'elves', 'mages' and 'archer'?

[Porthos]

Hoo-ray! Haley finally.... FINALLY tells someone about her father!

<Marv Albert>
YES!
</Marv Albert>

[Hurkyl]

Cloudkill, Contingency, and Resilient Sphere are the only visible spells on that list we haven't seen?

What are the ones starting with Gre and Sto? Greater invisibility and Stoneshape? (I'm guessing not skin, because of his "raising the tower from the ground" bit)

[Azzurus]

Excitement: Commenced.

[Cerrakoth]

Awesome, but I thought this would be the end! O-chul ftw!

[Erts]

The elves look awesome. Once again, the Giant shows us how he can be creative with stick figures.

[KilltheToy]

Awesome. Go Elves.

[Eran of Arcadia]

O-Chul = awesome.

Really. "One saving throw at a time".

[daggaz]

Annnddd...that's the end of the arc. Pretty obviously.

Really?? Cuz I dont see some big schmoozy montage scene, and you know how the Giant loves his bardic traditions.

I could easily see this going on further, busting into the city a bit, getting some kinda reaction from Xykon, *and then* the big shot that says hey, next book kids.

[Porthos]

Q: How does one roust out an Epic Level lich from a nigh-impentrable fortress?

A: By sending in parties of adventures. One party at a time. :smallwink:

[Quinton250]

This certainly opens things up from here on out, not what I expected at all.

[Kroy]

Awesome. Just awesome!

[Woodsman]

Really?? Cuz I dont see some big schmoozy montage scene, and you know how the Giant loves his bardic traditions.

Are you kidding? The whole "Liberation: Commencing" is a perfect cliff-hanger!

[Lupy]

The Elven squad at the end made me smile. I'm looking forward to Liberation within the course of the comic now. :smallsmile:

[Zerg Cookie]

Epic indeed.
But... Didn't Roy forget everything that happened beyond the gate? Including his mom?

[SPoD]

Cloudkill, Contingency, and Resilient Sphere are the only visible spells on that list we haven't seen?

Cloudkill is seen in Start of Darkness; Resilient Sphere is probably there, too, when Xykon puts Eugene in a bubble (as also seen here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0078.html)).

Contingency is totally new, as is the likely Epic Mage Armor at the bottom.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Hah! O-chul did not use Int as a dump stat, that's for sure. Liking him more with every strip he's in.

[SPoD]

Epic indeed.
But... Didn't Roy forget everything that happened beyond the gate? Including his mom?

I guess some things just burned into his memory.

[Lord Seth]

Ahh, now we're getting somewhere. This is much better than the previous one. Looks like OOTS is finally getting back in action!

[Liliedhe]

O'Chul gets the most quietly understated Crowning Moment of Awesome of all... Impressive.

[Dregon]

Hi everybody, this is my first post... update came while I was registrating...

Cool!!!

[Zanaril]

Nice! Double page and more elves!

[Turkish Delight]

Really?? Cuz I dont see some big schmoozy montage scene, and you know how the Giant loves his bardic traditions.

I could easily see this going on further, busting into the city a bit, getting some kinda reaction from Xykon, *and then* the big shot that says hey, next book kids.

The size of the comic, the 'liberation: commencing' (a bit like 'to Azure City!' back in the day), and the well-done image of the elves marching to the rescue of the city on the horizon all makes it fairly blatant.

[Morty]

Hmph. I'm not sure what to think of this one. Haley finally telling someone about her father is interesting, as is O-Chul's list. But I have mixed feelings about Elves Ex Machina. Then again, I'm biased against elves in D&D.
What I'm really curious about is how did Elan react to Haley's tale.

[DBear]

Ok, I'm an old 2E guy, so mebbe you kids can explain this to me. In panels 8-9B, the pink-haired elf is carrying a sword and shield. But in 10B, the elf is casting a sending spell and the shield is gone, unless the magical effect is concealing it. So what class or build would allow this combo?

[sam79]

Love this strip, and happy to be around when it came up. I like the fact that Haley and Elan both spill their secrets to each other, while V (supposedly the most intelligent of the three) keeps hers back from Durkon in 667.

[Elder Tsofu]

Whopie - that was a lot of info and new turns to digest. ^^

[Hurkyl]

the shield is gone
It's on the elf's back.

[SPoD]

Hmph. I'm not sure what to think of this one. Haley finally telling someone about her father is interesting, as is O-Chul's list. But I have mixed feelings about Elves Ex Machina. Then again, I'm biased against elves in D&D.

The fact that the elven homelands are allies of the Azurites has been mentioned at least 3 or 4 times, and the magical/military capabilities displayed here are well within such a nation's likely arsenal. If anything, this is a pretty tame intervention for elves. This isn't even remotely a Deus Ex Machina.

[#Raptor]

Ok, I'm an old 2E guy, so mebbe you kids can explain this to me. In panels 8-9B, the pink-haired elf is carrying a sword and shield. But in 10B, the elf is casting a sending spell and the shield is gone, unless the magical effect is concealing it. So what class or build would allow this combo?

A beguiler (PHB 2, 3.5).

/E: More details on the beguiler... theyre kinda like specialist mages, but about 90% of theyr spells are Enchantment/Illusion and they can wear light armor. They also get alot of skills and a good skill list, similar to rogues (incl. Trapfinding).

[archon_huskie]

Look as I have told new DnD players, Elves only act like they are superior because they are.

[xyzzy]

Have we seen the name Thanh before? I recognize it, but can't put my finger on it.

[Altaria87]

This is the most epic strip in a while, I literally had a funny feeling in my stomach while reading it.
The only problem is that the epicness was done by Elves in part. I'm quite biased against Elves. But Hinjo was pretty cool in this stip as well.
Edit:

Have we seen the name Thanh before? I recognize it, but can't put my finger on it.
He was the Paladin in the resistance, was Dominated.

[Optimystik]

Worth the wait.

(Huge laughs at "bardic tradition," "initiative," and "one saving throw at a time.")

[SPoD]

Ok, I'm an old 2E guy, so mebbe you kids can explain this to me. In panels 8-9B, the pink-haired elf is carrying a sword and shield. But in 10B, the elf is casting a sending spell and the shield is gone, unless the magical effect is concealing it. So what class or build would allow this combo?

Cleric. No frills necessary.

Sending is a 4th level cleric spell, and elves get free proficiency with longswords. (And as mentioned, the shield is on her back, the way Durkon carries his.)


Have we seen the name Thanh before? I recognize it, but can't put my finger on it.

He's the mustached paladin who is leading the Resistance now.

[KIDS]

Liberation: commencing. LOL! They sound like Terminators, though in a good way.

[archon_huskie]

Thanh = The paladin with a mustache leading the resistance.

[RMS Oceanic]

Have we seen the name Thanh before? I recognize it, but can't put my finger on it.

He's the Paladin that assumed leadership of the Resistance after Haley left.

[Arcane_Secrets]

I loved the line about learning Xykon's spell list one saving throw at a time.

[DBear]

It's on the elf's back.

Looks like I failed my spot check :smallfurious:

[Zerg Cookie]

Have we seen the name Thanh before? I recognize it, but can't put my finger on it.

Thanh is the leader of the resistance.
Edit: Ninja'd! :smalltongue:

[Altaria87]

The fact that the elven homelands are allies of the Azurites has been mentioned at least 3 or 4 times, and the magical/military capabilities displayed here are well within such a nation's likely arsenal. If anything, this is a pretty tame intervention for elves. This isn't even remotely a Deus Ex Machina.
Can you link to where that was mentioned. Though I don't consider it Deus Ex Machina I don't remember the Elves ever been established as Azure City's allies. All I remember is Soon being on a diplomatic mission to them

[Swordlol]

Amazing. As always.

[The Extinguisher]

Androgynous elves are androgynous.

[Deme]

Tell you everything. How are we supposed to get a happy ending if we can't be honest?

Awwwwwww... That panel made my day. It's like pumping chocolate straight into my soul.

[Morty]

The fact that the elven homelands are allies of the Azurites has been mentioned at least 3 or 4 times, and the magical/military capabilities displayed here are well within such a nation's likely arsenal. If anything, this is a pretty tame intervention for elves. This isn't even remotely a Deus Ex Machina.

The "Elves Ex Machina" was a purposeful exagerration... but yes, I forgot that elves have been mentioned as Azure City's allies. And since it's logical for other people to try and stop Xykon, I retract my comment as it'd place me on the line with people screaming "NPCs aren't supposed to do anything important!"

[Optimystik]

Awwwwwww... That panel made my day. It's like pumping chocolate straight into my soul.

I'm going to throw up now about something unrelated :smalltongue:

Did anyone else get a LotR flashback from this? The elves are here!

[misterk]

Loved this. Don't have much else to say other than super awesome. I'd like to see Elan's reaction to Haley's story though.

[derfenrirwolv]

Can you link to where that was mentioned. Though I don't consider it Deus Ex Machina I don't remember the Elves ever been established as Azure City's allies. All I remember is Soon being on a diplomatic mission to them

When V shows up in Xykons throne room, Xykon wonders allowed if the elves finally decided to get off their duffs and help their old friends the blue beards.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html

6th panel

[sihnfahl]

But... Didn't Roy forget everything that happened beyond the gate? Including his mom?
Except he knows his mom is *censored* up the whole Afterlife (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html) from a not-beyond-the-Gate source.

[Woodsman]

And since it's logical for other people to try and stop Xykon, I retract my comment as it'd place me on the line with people screaming "NPCs aren't supposed to do anything important!"

Well, you know this is war. War is all about what NPC's do and how important it is.

[Tubal-Cain]

I think we have now met one of the much-debated "Nine Sides": The Elves.

I must have missed something. What "Nine Sides"?


Q: How does one roust out an Epic Level lich from a nigh-impentrable fortress?

A: By sending in parties of adventures. One party at a time. :smallwink:

Just send a few cloaked messengers to sit in the dark corners of village taverns and stare into their drinks.

[FlyingScanian]

I loved the line about learning Xykon's spell list one saving throw at a time.

Must have hurt like I-don't-know-what...

as an aside: did anyone else count the number of words used in the sending spell, or was it just me?

[#Raptor]

Cleric. No frills necessary.

Sending is a 4th level cleric spell, and elves get free proficiency with longswords. (And as mentioned, the shield is on her back, the way Durkon carries his.)Oops. I guess you're right.
Could have been a beguiler with a mithral shield though, but the cleric is way more likely.

[Morty]

Well, you know this is war. War is all about what NPC's do and how important it is.

Tell that to people who were screaming bloody murder after the Order had been split because only the main protagonists are supposed to do important stuff.

[sihnfahl]

as an aside: did anyone else count the number of words used in the sending spell, or was it just me?
I count 25. :smallwink:

[Optimystik]

I must have missed something. What "Nine Sides"?

One of the demon roaches says he "counts at least nine sides to the conflict." I forget which strip though. And I agree, the elves must be one of them.

[hajo]

I'm quite sure, we will get 'entertaining dramatic conflict' even now that Elan has told Haley everything :smallbiggrin:

[Porthos]

Oops. I guess you're right.
Could have been a beguiler with a mithral shield though, but the cleric is way more likely.

You can just make out a tiny Holy Symbol if you look closely enuf. :smallsmile:

[SPoD]

Can you link to where that was mentioned. Though I don't consider it Deus Ex Machina I don't remember the Elves ever been established as Azure City's allies. All I remember is Soon being on a diplomatic mission to them

Yes, Soon's mission is the first clue.

Xykon also mentions it here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html), where he says that the elves are "old friends" with the Azurites.

Finally, the "Travel Guide to Azure City" in the back of War and XPs states it explicitly:

The only exception to Azure City's lack of close allies are the Elven Lands, which have long been friends to the Azurites.

There may be another mention that I'm forgetting.

[afroakuma]

The word "epic" comes to mind.

"One saving throw at a time," heh. :smallcool:

And Thanh still running the show with the resistance.

Worth the wait. :smallsmile:

[HOLEkevin]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. It does look all "epic-y" and stuff. Big and important doins.

Wonder how they're going to screw it all up?

[Assassin89]

I think there might be a few sidequests before reaching the next gate.

As for the elves, they are important NPCs.

[Elfin]

Awesome comic. :smallsmile:

[AtomicKitKat]

Is there some kind of pop culture reference with the team? Like Team Fortress, or some other FPS I haven't heard of?:smallconfused:

[Babale]

Woohoo! More androgenderous elves! Well, at least 2 of them are...

V and Mate were getting lonely!

[Badgercloak]

O-chul just got a few dozen levels in badass. :smallbiggrin:

Great comic.

[Babale]

A beguiler (PHB 2, 3.5).

/E: More details on the beguiler... theyre kinda like specialist mages, but about 90% of theyr spells are Enchantment/Illusion and they can wear light armor. They also get alot of skills and a good skill list, similar to rogues (incl. Trapfinding).

Couldn't it also be a Cleric whose Deity has a Sword as a favored weapon?

[Optimystik]

Couldn't it also be a Cleric whose Deity has a Sword as a favored weapon?

As they're elves, he could use a sword no matter who his deity was.

(Also, it's favored souls who automatically gain proficiency with their deity's favored weapon, not clerics.)

[FoE]

So the whole time he was being tortured, he was gathering intel on Xykon and his cronies?

That's ... pretty awesome.

Ugh, I complimented a paladin. I feel so ... dirty.

[Wolf_Plague]

So.
Elf guy with some tan.
Elf chick with a bow.
Elf chick as a cleric.
And elf... wizard... thingy... OH, FOR EMPEROR'S SAKE!! :smallmad:

[adibobo]

Can you link to where that was mentioned. Though I don't consider it Deus Ex Machina I don't remember the Elves ever been established as Azure City's allies. All I remember is Soon being on a diplomatic mission to them


http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html
When V teleports in Xykon asks him/her if the elves had sent him/her to help their "old alies the bluebeards".

[pflare]

I loved that Elan and Haley have an honest relationship. And O-chul kicks butt and...and...amazing.

[Xondoure]

Wow, so Elan gets to know the horrible truth? I guess that means it'll be out in no time! I hope at least.

[Totally Guy]

I liked the way the Elf milked that sending spell for every last word.

[faith]

hmmm i wonder if the elf wizard has summoning spells, or if xykon knows about the hole in his shield

[Carteeg_Struve]

I love the fact that Elan knew they were in Book 4's denouncement. :smallbiggrin:

Incredible work, Giant.

[whitemane]

WOOHOO!!! I feel like I just reached the part of Return of the Jedi where they were flying away from Tatooine after rescuing Han Solo and getting ready to attack the Death Star!!!!

[Optimystik]

Elf chick with a bow.
Elf chick as a cleric.


Those two aren't conclusive either.


hmmm i wonder if the elf wizard has summoning spells, or if xykon knows about the hole in his shield

Teleport is conjuration, so he might.

[Freefall]

Blimey! Stuff is happening and now all the forumites have a partial list of Xykon's spells!

[RMS Oceanic]

hmmm i wonder if the elf wizard has summoning spells, or if xykon knows about the hole in his shield

It's not a hole in the shield: They teleported outside the Cloister, and now they're going to enter it. There's nothing in the spell that prevents one from simply walking accross its boundaries.

[Elderac]

"One saving throw at a time." Best laugh out loud line in awhile.

What a dude. Not only does he survive the tests, but takes notes while doing it and ever holding hope that he will survive long enough to pass on the information.

[Axl_Rose]

I think this would make a nice final page for this story arc's book.

[Optimystik]

It's not a hole in the shield: They teleported outside the Cloister, and now they're going to enter it. There's nothing in the spell that prevents one from simply walking accross its boundaries.

He means if Xykon knows that they can summon reinforcements to the city once inside, which is the specific exception to Cloister.

[blahedo]

Maybe I was the only one, but I found it greatly entertaining that the first words of the comic were "Sorry to keep you waiting..." ;)

[Pip]

And we have an explanation on why this update took so long. Rich had to wait for Haley and Elan to finish their side-bar conversation. :smallbiggrin:

"One saving throw at a time." - Further proof that the universe is expanding as it need to to continue to contain the awesomeness that is O'Chul.

[JonestheSpy]

Let's just say that again because it's so dang cool:

One savings throw at a time.

And thank all the gods there are that Elan eschewed bardic rules this time. I hate "horrible misunderstandings because of incomplete data" stories.

Oh, and elves rock.

[Kish]

It's not a hole in the shield: They teleported outside the Cloister, and now they're going to enter it. There's nothing in the spell that prevents one from simply walking accross its boundaries.

I believe faith means the established flaw in Cloister, that it doesn't block summoning spells, which would theoretically make it possible to summon an entire army into Xykon's throne room.

[HandofShadows]

Great to see that Haley and Elan are being open with each other. Considering Haley's reaction I don't think Elan is hating her and in the end their relationship will be stonger for it. O-Chul continues to be a great character. But I hope we more away from him soon. To much awesome can get tiresome.

[Saknussem]

I think O-Chul just redefined the paladin...again. I mean, the guy is getting tortured and killed and raised for MONTHS (poetic license, ok? No need to be meen.). MONTHS! And what he is doing, besides resisting to the absolute best of his incredibly awesome abilities, is to gather intel on the enemy. And the intel he gathered, I PREDICT, will indeed lead to the downfall of evil in our time.

Team Peregrine? The Falcons are here! The Falcons are here!???

[Zanaril]

and killed and raised

No he wasn't.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I know everyong thinks this is the final page of this book, but I still think there will be one more page... The scene at the end MIGHT be the spash page, ot it might not be...

Still, awesome as ever! :smallbiggrin:

[Hacktor]

It killed me :smallbiggrin: "one saving throw at a time " .. Masterfully done Giant..

[Jaltum]

Hmmm--is that Skirmish damage? The dark-skinned elf is really zipping around there, and it's funny that he nukes the cleric, not the guy standing in front of him. Looks like light armor, too.

[SirKazum]

Am I the only one who thinks O-Chul would make a great Blue Mage? (as in Final Fantasy series :smalltongue:)

[jmucchiello]

Tell you everything. How are we supposed to get a happy ending if we can't be honest?Awwwwwww... That panel made my day. It's like pumping chocolate straight into my soul.

Hate to rain on your chocolate but Elan is forgetting one thing. He gets a happy ending. He != We. Whether Haley's ending will be happy or even if it will intertwine with Elan's is unknown (or unpredicted if you prefer).

[Mr. Shiny Objec]

Awesome.

The elves are awesome, and the initiative joke was funny, but my favorite line is "O-Chul is right", because he always is. Always.

(I've been reading too much O-Chul facts)

O-Chul is the man! I don't think I would be able to memorize every spell every used on me (well, I can now, but you know what I mean).

[snafu]

Did anyone else get a LotR flashback from this? The elves are here!

Eh? I'd get a LotR flashback if the elves had sent a few completely untrained halflings to Azure City on a suicide bombing mission. Actual elves coming out and doing actual fighting in a useful way? Well, there was Legolas of course, and Glorfindel racing back to Rivendell with Frodo ahead of the Nazgul, but other than that... nope. No Elves. They don't care, they're sailing away anyway. You read the entire story and they host a conference on what to do, and later on they hand over some field rations and some boats and stuff, but they don't fight. Then if you read the appendices, very closely indeed, it says: 'Oh wait, I forgot to mention: orcs were also attacking the elves, who were busy fighting in their own homelands. That's why they never came to the big fight at Minas Tirith or at Helm's Deep. Honest.'

[Tyrael]

Hmmm--is that Skirmish damage? The dark-skinned elf is really zipping around there, and it's funny that he nukes the cleric, not the guy standing in front of him. Looks like light armor, too.

Actually, you're right. That could very well be a Scout. If he was a normal TWF'er, he would just do a bunch of slashes, as seen with the other TWF'ers in the comic. The fact that he moves around (and Tumbling while doing so) before striking strongly implies that he's a Scout. He probably just took the TWF feat.

So, for Team Peregrine, we have:
Wood(?) Elf Scout
Elf Ranger( possibly Fighter specialized in archery)
Elf Wizard (probably)
Elf Cleric (possibly Beguiler)

[whitemane]

Hate to rain on your chocolate but Elan is forgetting one thing. He gets a happy ending. He != We. Whether Haley's ending will be happy or even if it will intertwine with Elan's is unknown (or unpredicted if you prefer).

True... but if we follow bardic conventions (and it wouldn't be a happy ending for Elan without following bardic conventions) that would mean that he and his true love (aka Haley) would live happily ever after. Having Haley die, go her own way, or whatever would simply not pan out for a happy ending. (And there isn't enough time for him to fall in love with someone else since Roy has stated that they are supposed to defeat Xykon within the next 7 weeks of comic/game time...)

[Kish]

Actually, you're right. That could very well be a Scout. If he was a normal TWF'er, he would just do a bunch of slashes, as seen with the other TWF'ers in the comic. The fact that he moves around (and Tumbling while doing so) before striking strongly implies that he's a Scout.

Or, you know, a rogue.

(And there isn't enough time for him to fall in love with someone else since Roy has stated that they are supposed to defeat Xykon within the next 7 weeks of comic/game time...)
I will be very surprised if the ending of the comic doesn't feature both Elan and Haley alive and together. I will not be surprised at all, however, if Xykon is still an unliving threat in seven in-comic weeks. Roy is not the Oracle.

[Herald Alberich]

Hate to rain on your chocolate but Elan is forgetting one thing. He gets a happy ending. He != We. Whether Haley's ending will be happy or even if it will intertwine with Elan's is unknown (or unpredicted if you prefer).

Someone has mentioned before, and I agree, that it's very unlikely Elan will get an ending he considers to be happy if he doesn't have Haley by his side.

edit: Hah, ninja'd on my very first post. Should have known that would happen.

[borg286]

Hmmm--is that Skirmish damage? The dark-skinned elf is really zipping around there, and it's funny that he nukes the cleric, not the guy standing in front of him. Looks like light armor, too.

I do believe he a scout. Great 2 sword action, splurching the cleric and minion with +xd6 to all his damage rolls, and probably flanking for the fighter. A scout does sound more likely than a vanilla rogue in this case.

[Taekwondodo]

It's like an elven OOTS! Cool!!:smallbiggrin:

[whitemane]

Or, you know, a rogue.

I will be very surprised if the ending of the comic doesn't feature both Elan and Haley alive and together. I will not be surprised at all, however, if Xykon is still an unliving threat in seven in-comic weeks. Roy is not the Oracle.

True... but Belkar will be dead, and it just wouldn't be the Order of the Stick if Belkar wasn't there at the end when they defeat Xykon. (Yes, I know, I'm relying on Bardic conventions again...)

[Herald Alberich]

No he wasn't.

To elaborate, Redcloak refused to kill O-Chul because he'd have to consent to being raised, and Redcloak didn't think he'd want to return from Celestia to captivity. See here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0543.html).

Now, it's possible O-Chul is just that damn dedicated as to allow himself to be raised and continue gathering information on the enemy even after getting a chance at eternal rest, but Redcloak wasn't about to take that chance.

edited for clarity

[Morty]

Hmmm--is that Skirmish damage? The dark-skinned elf is really zipping around there, and it's funny that he nukes the cleric, not the guy standing in front of him. Looks like light armor, too.

I don't think the dual-wielding elf managed to cover 30 feet during his movement.

[Herald Alberich]

Now, on a completely different note, what the heck happened to Sending's 10-minute casting time? We know it exists in the Stickverse because of the huge deal it was during the Thieves' Guild fight. But now the elven cleric just pops one off in a round. No scroll, either.

[Aron Times]

Hey, anyone else notice that the cleric's message is exactly 25 words long? Nice touch, Giant.

[whitemane]

Now, on a completely different note, what the heck happened to Sending's 10-minute casting time? We know it exists in the Stickverse because of the huge deal it was during the Thieves' Guild fight. But now the elven cleric just pops one off in a round. No scroll, either.

That would be what JMS (of Babylon 5 fame) referred to as "Proceeding at the speed of Plot". In essence, if it is dramatically appropriate for it to take 10 minutes to cast, it does... If it is dramatically appropriate for it to happen right away so as not to bog down the story, it does....

[Eran of Arcadia]

Anyone else think Haley just "wasted" a good initiative role?

[Sotris]

So how does Roy remember his mom, anyway?

[Krinn]

I think that the elf "wizard" is actually a sorcerer... no headband (of intellect, like V) but he has a cloak (possibly of charisma).

I call for Rogue (Archer), Ranger, Sorcerer, Cleric. I don't think there are many non-SRD things referred to in this comic anyway.
The Rogue is also in the frontline looking for traps in the last panel. You don't enter a perilous dungeon without a rogue.

[BHodges3]

So how long until the "Were Team Peregrine's killing of the hobgoblins Lawful Good?" thread? *face palm*

[badam104172]

Oh. Mah. God. Elves Ftw!!!

[Herald Alberich]

That would be what JMS (of Babylon 5 fame) referred to as "Proceeding at the speed of Plot". In essence, if it is dramatically appropriate for it to take 10 minutes to cast, it does... If it is dramatically appropriate for it to happen right away so as not to bog down the story, it does....
Well, sure, I understand it on that level, but the consistency suffers as a result. She could have used a scroll to handwave it away, as Nale did to start the Cliffport arc.

[FoE]

Now, on a completely different note, what the heck happened to Sending's 10-minute casting time? We know it exists in the Stickverse because of the huge deal it was during the Thieves' Guild fight. But now the elven cleric just pops one off in a round. No scroll, either.

Well, there was a time issue back in Greysky City. A battle was going on, so the 10-minute casting time was relevant.

In this case, there was no threat to the elves, so showing the 10 minutes pass would have been pointless.

I mean, did we really need three or four panels of the elven wizard just standing there and chanting "Sending ... Sending ... Sending"? Can't we just assume the 10 minutes had passed in between panels?

[Herald Alberich]

Well, there was a time issue back in Greysky City. A battle was going on, so the 10-minute casting time was relevant.

In this case, there was no threat to the elves, so showing the 10 minutes pass would have been pointless.

I mean, did we really need three or four panels of the elven wizard just standing there and chanting "Sending ... Sending ... Sending"? Can't we just assume the 10 minutes had passed in between panels?

Indeed we could. That makes sense. It'd make more sense if, say, she said Sending more than once in the panel. But now I'm nitpicking, so I'll stop.

I also thought perhaps she said the message first, and will continue concentrating on Sending it as they travel (can you do that?)

[whitemane]

Well, sure, I understand it on that level, but the consistency suffers as a result. She could have used a scroll to handwave it away, as Nale did to start the Cliffport arc.

If it makes you feel any better, you can imagine that she cast Quickened Sending instead... LOL

[chefsotero]

Something I need to say:

PPUTAQUEOSPARIUTRESPORQUATRODOAVESSO

ok back to english :smallsmile:

Quite sweet comic, I had no words in english to express my awe.

Tumbs up.

[FoE]

Indeed we could. That makes sense. It'd make more sense if, say, she said Sending more than once in the panel.

If we assume that 10 minutes had passed in between panels like I said, then we can assume the elven caster has been saying "Sending ... Sending" all this time. The word balloon in the second-last panel only shows the last utterance of the word "Sending".

There. Is that better? Will you be able to sleep at night now? :smalltongue:

[Porthos]

If it makes you feel any better, you can imagine that she cast Quickened Sending instead... LOL

Can't cast Quicken on a spell that has more than a round casting time. :smallsmile:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#quickenSpell


Casting a quickened spell is an swift action. You can perform another action, even casting another spell, in the same round as you cast a quickened spell. You may cast only one quickened spell per round. A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full round action cannot be quickened. A quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell’s actual level. Casting a quickened spell doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity.

There's probably some other non-core feat out there that does shorten casting time in some fashion thou...

[Porthos]

If we assume that 10 minutes had passed in between panels like I said, then we can assume the elven caster has been saying "Sending ... Sending" all this time. The word balloon in the second-last panel only shows the last utterance of the word "Sending".

There. Is that better? Will you be able to sleep at night now? :smalltongue:

Can I just say that I find it dificult to believe that Team Elf would sit around for 10 minutes after they just ambushed a patrol party? Nevermind the fact that the panels are highly suggestive of being continuous movement time wise.

But, then again, it would be hard for me to care less about the casting time of Sending in this case. But I knew.... I just KNEW that some posters would be bringing it up. :smallamused:

[factotum]

Now, on a completely different note, what the heck happened to Sending's 10-minute casting time? We know it exists in the Stickverse because of the huge deal it was during the Thieves' Guild fight. But now the elven cleric just pops one off in a round. No scroll, either.

Darn, I was going to mention that! Wouldn't have been a problem if it hadn't been such a massive plot point during the fight with the Thieves' Guild in Old Blind Pete's basement...

I, too, am interested in what Elan's reaction to Haley's news was. I doubt he'd see eye to eye with Haley over her killing of Crystal--they may both be Chaotic Good, but Elan has always been heavy on the Good side whereas Haley is more at the Chaotic end of things.

[FoE]

Can I just say that I find it dificult to believe that Team Elf would sit around for 10 minutes after they just ambushed a patrol party? Nevermind the fact that the panels are highly suggestive of being continuous movement time wise.

They just killed a whole hobgoblin patrol. They're probably safe being out in the open for a few minutes. As for the continuous movement ... well, maybe they're just moving again after standing around for a while.

All right, repeat after me: it's just a webcomic. I should really just relax. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra)

[Porthos]

All right, repeat after me: it's just a webcomic.

Preaching to the choir here. :smalltongue:

Besides, alluding to a 10 minute casting time (even as a joke) would kill the pacing of the strip stone cold dead.

And this strip was all about building to the climax seen in the final few panels. No need to ruin it here just for the sake of a foolish consistency. :smallamused:

[Mauve Shirt]

Elves? What? :smallconfused:

[sam79]

Darn, I was going to mention that! Wouldn't have been a problem if it hadn't been such a massive plot point during the fight with the Thieves' Guild in Old Blind Pete's basement...

I, too, am interested in what Elan's reaction to Haley's news was. I doubt he'd see eye to eye with Haley over her killing of Crystal--they may both be Chaotic Good, but Elan has always been heavy on the Good side whereas Haley is more at the Chaotic end of things.

On the first point, as many others have mentioned, we only need to assume a delay between panels. And yes, I do see Team Elf waiting ten minutes after just ambushing a load of Hobgoblins. Why? So they could 'radio' HQ with a status report, of course!

On the second point; yes, Elan may have baulked a little. But at the end of the day, Crystal was a powerful (if rather dim) assassin who had a personal vendetta against the woman he's in love with. I think he could live a dead Crystal and a living, breathing Haley who has one less enemy to look over her shoulder for.

[Herald Alberich]

Alright alright alright! I didn't mean to derail all of Page 5. Speed of Plot, Handwave, MST3K Mantra, okay. I nitpick. It's a flaw.

Here, new old topic:


One of the demon roaches says he "counts at least nine sides to the conflict." I forget which strip though. And I agree, the elves must be one of them.
It's #548 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0548.html). And I concur.

[Porthos]

Elves? What? :smallconfused:

Here's a handy rundown of the ties between Azure City and the Elves from SPoD earlier in the thread. :smallsmile:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6569706&postcount=74


Yes, Soon's mission [ed: To the Elven Homelands] is the first clue.

Xykon also mentions it here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html), where he says that the elves are "old friends" with the Azurites.

Finally, the "Travel Guide to Azure City" in the back of War and XPs states it explicitly:



The only exception to Azure City's lack of close allies are the Elven Lands, which have long been friends to the Azurites.

There may be another mention that I'm forgetting.

[FoE]

No need to ruin it here just for the sake of a foolish consistency. :smallamused:

Lucy Lawless: ... but I'm sure that once girls get to know the real you, you'll get plenty of dates. Next question.
Frink: Yes, over here, n'hey, n'hey. In episode BF12, you were battling barbarians while riding a winged Appaloosa, yet in the very next scene, my dear, you're clearly atop a winged Arabian. Please do explain it!
Lucy Lawless: Ah, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that, a wizard did it.
Frink: I see, all right, yes, but in episode AG4 --
Lucy Lawless: Wizard.
Frink: Aw, for glaven out loud.

[Selene]

This strip was wow. Love the elves! :smallbiggrin:

I forget who asked, but the orange-haired one is a girl, because she has a round girl-butt.


Eh? I'd get a LotR flashback if the elves had sent a few completely untrained halflings to Azure City on a suicide bombing mission. Actual elves coming out and doing actual fighting in a useful way? Well, there was Legolas of course, and Glorfindel racing back to Rivendell with Frodo ahead of the Nazgul, but other than that... nope. No Elves. They don't care, they're sailing away anyway. You read the entire story and they host a conference on what to do, and later on they hand over some field rations and some boats and stuff, but they don't fight. Then if you read the appendices, very closely indeed, it says: 'Oh wait, I forgot to mention: orcs were also attacking the elves, who were busy fighting in their own homelands. That's why they never came to the big fight at Minas Tirith or at Helm's Deep. Honest.'

They did show up at Helm's Deep in the movie version. I suspect the poster was referring to that. The elves who showed up were led by Haldir, and they were shown to be extremely efficient. Basically they left everybody else going "whoa, check them out." So yeah, I got the movie flashback.

But in the books, didn't Elladan and Elrohir show up? I could have sworn they did, but I haven't read the actual LotR books in a few years. Been meaning to get around to them again, but I got distracted re-reading Silmarillion and all the Lost/Unfinished Tales stuff.

edit:
This must be what I was remembering.

During the War of the Ring, they fought alongside Aragorn in the battle of the Pelennor Fields in Gondor.

[Lerky]

Yes, Soon's mission is the first clue.

Xykon also mentions it here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html), where he says that the elves are "old friends" with the Azurites.

Finally, the "Travel Guide to Azure City" in the back of War and XPs states it explicitly:


There may be another mention that I'm forgetting.

wow...Rich is a genius with foreshadowing!:smallbiggrin:

Makes me wonder what other secrets are lying around.

[Porthos]

Lucy Lawless: ... but I'm sure that once girls get to know the real you, you'll get plenty of dates. Next question.
Frink: Yes, over here, n'hey, n'hey. In episode BF12, you were battling barbarians while riding a winged Appaloosa, yet in the very next scene, my dear, you're clearly atop a winged Arabian. Please do explain it!
Lucy Lawless: Ah, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that, a wizard did it.
Frink: I see, all right, yes, but in episode AG4 --
Lucy Lawless: Wizard.
Frink: Aw, for glaven out loud.

<Can't Help Myself>
I think you mean to say A Cleric Did It in this case. :smalltongue:
</Can't Help Myself>

But, yes, I am well aware of the reference. :smallwink:

[spargel]

So, any guesses about the genders of the elves?

[Selene]

They just killed a whole hobgoblin patrol. They're probably safe being out in the open for a few minutes. As for the continuous movement ... well, maybe they're just moving again after standing around for a while.

All right, repeat after me: it's just a webcomic. I should really just relax. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra)

Oh, great. Now that song's stuck in my head. :smalltongue:

[Herald Alberich]

So, any guesses about the genders of the elves?

I'd say the two-weapon whatever-he-is is pretty clearly male. The others I'm just going with my gut about: wizard's male, archer and cleric are female. Could just be the pink hair in the cleric's case.

[Red XIV]

So, any guesses about the genders of the elves?
The tanned elf with two swords definitely looks male. The other three? Androgynous as usual.

So we've seen our second non-androgynous elf, apparently, unless the swordsman is a total reverse trap.

[Vectner]

Maybe I was the only one, but I found it greatly entertaining that the first words of the comic were "Sorry to keep you waiting..." ;)

I felt the same way, like The Giant was apologizing for making us wait so long for the update.

Also I want to say that I feel this comic is like a nice sorbet to cleanse the palette after a heavy meal.

Thanks for an awesome comic!

[isocum]

Looking at haley's happy face, i assume elan did not bothered mentioning his last name to haley. i hope that haley didn't spilled all her guts out, so it doesn't bite his ass too hard later.

[Optimystik]

Something I need to say:

PPUTAQUEOSPARIUTRESPORQUATRODOAVESSO

ok back to english :smallsmile:

Quite sweet comic, I had no words in english to express my awe.

Tumbs up.

Try "WOW!" :smallbiggrin:

[Magnema]

My guess for classes:
Fighter. Rogue. Wizard. Cleric.
Normal. Generic. Party.

[Bazounga]

Who are these guys in the last panels? I don't remember any "Peregrin" thingy in the DD para-cosmology...
So, I didn't get the reference, if any.

Anyway : It was great, Rich, really great! A lot of things to think about in this strip !

Bravo! :smallwink:

[David Argall]

We might note that the elf attack here is presumably some time in the future. How far is vague of course, but Hinjo has just learned of Thant, and most other facts, which have to be repeated to the elves. So this attack is still a week or month away.

Don't expect to see much more of these elves. While not everything has to be with the PCs, that is still the way to bet, and these elves may not appear in five strips. They really don't have much to tell us, except that there is still a fight for Azure City.

We get a confirmation this is November by the Southern Calendar. Haley refers to her information as several months old, which means she has been on the road for quite some time.

Too bad we are not going to get the "entertaining dramatic conflict", but that has not been our writer's strong point anyway.


Epic indeed.
But... Didn't Roy forget everything that happened beyond the gate? Including his mom?
As long as Roy is not precise in what he says, we can squeeze it in as some sort of vague feeling he recalls rather than precise facts.




my favorite line is "O-Chul is right", because he always is. Always.
Which is why it is likely a good thing this strip suggests we are about to see pretty much the last of him. Referring to the upcoming confrontation with Xykon, O-Chul says "you" rather than "we", which means he does not expect to be at that confrontation.
But O-Chul has been too close to perfect for too long already. Definitely time to bench him.

[Doug Lampert]

But in the books, didn't Elladan and Elrohir show up?

Along with 50 or so Rangers. After Helm's Deep but prior to the Paths of the Dead IIRC.

[Draz74]

My guess for classes:
Fighter. Rogue. Wizard. Cleric.
Normal. Generic. Party.

Nah. They're elves. The one in green with two swords has to be a Ranger.

So either Fighter/Ranger/Wizard/Cleric
or Rogue/Ranger/Wizard/Cleric.

(The archer could be a Fighter, even with light armor.)

[Scorer]

Try "WOW!" :smallbiggrin:

I have this little feeling that WOW just don't mean the same.... hehehehehe

[Random832]

I liked the way the Elf milked that sending spell for every last word.

Everyone we've seen use sending does that, except Nale.


Looking at haley's happy face, i assume elan did not bothered mentioning his last name to haley. i hope that haley didn't spilled all her guts out, so it doesn't bite his ass too hard later.

He might not know his father's last name - they divorced while he was still a baby.

Or maybe the theory is wrong. Nah, that's impossible. :smallcool:

[sam79]

We might note that the elf attack here is presumably some time in the future. How far is vague of course, but Hinjo has just learned of Thant, and most other facts, which have to be repeated to the elves. So this attack is still a week or month away.


Probably not that far in the future, though. If Hinjo got Durkon to send a message to his allies the night before, on the general subject of gathering intelligence from Azure City, it is perhaps likely that the Elven strike team had already been put together, awaiting an opportune moment. The arrival of the Order and O-Chul with valuable intelligence looks like that trigger. I guess we need assume no more than a day of delay between panels 6 and 7 to allow Team Peregrine to get appropriately tooled and spelled up.

[Porthos]

Who are these guys in the last panels? I don't remember any "Peregrin" thingy in the DD para-cosmology...
So, I didn't get the reference, if any.

It's just a team name. Like "Order of the Stick".

[sam79]

Who are these guys in the last panels? I don't remember any "Peregrin" thingy in the DD para-cosmology...
So, I didn't get the reference, if any.


In the real world, the peregrine is a type of falcon that hunts by diving super-fast upon its prey in an incredibly impressive and surprising way. Quite an appropriate name, really!

[isocum]

He might not know his father's last name - they divorced while he was still a baby.

Or maybe the theory is wrong. Nah, that's impossible. :smallcool:

i don't think so. i would say that it's his bardic senses were tingling. :smallamused:

[Acero]

great strip.

an entire group of interesting ppl just entered, but i predict they will die though.

did Celia just leave, or what. she could have helped the war council greatly

[kraazivaan]

Anyone else think Haley just "wasted" a good initiative role?

Honestly, I thought that was the weakest part of an otherwise good strip, and even a little jarring. I think it's because when someone in a D&D game responds like that, it is normally a good indication that they have been doing their own thing and not really paying attention to what is going on in the game. And there is no indication that Haley is being inattentive.

(For contrast, see strip 16, where the same joke is done with Durkon. There it makes sense, because he is asleep, and cannot be expected to be following the conversation.)

[Random832]

:elan: I suspect we may find an unlikely ally in my brother.

:haley: :smallconfused:

:elan: Simple bardic logic: since we're having this discussion off-panel, it can be assumed that this aspect of your backstory has already been revealed to the readers - probably some time during the first book, not too far from when mine and Nale's. Now, the description I have of my father - an evil overlord type, along with the letter "T" being prominently featured in the flashback panels, makes it quite likely that my father is in fact Lord Tyrinar. It wouldn't make any sense at all for them to be two different people.

:haley: Okay, that sounds reasonable, I guess... but why would Nale help us?

:elan: Oh, right, you weren't there. During our first confrontation, Nale said - and I quote: "No-one denies me, Elan. Not father, not you, no one. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0061.html)" Whatever grudge he has against our father, the thematic appropriateness of an Unlikely Allies subplot indicates the most likely thing is that he will help us take him down.

[eras10]

Things were already fairly tense between Redcloak and Xykon, but it seems like no one has pointed out that this takes it to the next level.

Xykon has already stated in the most explicit terms possible that they're off to Gerard's Gate as soon as they find his holy box. The Elf assault strongly suggests one of two things:

#1. Either some seriously powerful elf badasses will be seen and X and R will be forced to flee without the phylactery - I don't think this is likely (but I'd enjoy it)

#2. The liberation will be crushed before the phylactery is found (I doubt it)

#3. The possibly somewhat long-term struggle for control of the city will still be raging when Xykon finds the phylactery, who will demand that Redcloak cuts and runs off to the Gate, quite possibly forcing him to desert, or even sacrifice through neglect, the whole hobgoblin army.

I think Redcloak may crack at that point.

[sam79]

Now, the description I have of my father - an evil overlord type, along with the letter "T" being prominently featured in the flashback panels, makes it quite likely that my father is in fact Lord Tyrinar.

Great post, and I LOVE this idea. Could lead to all sorts of family/in-law shenanigans.

[Rebarth]

my least favorite strip in a while. i really hate what giant did with haley on this one, specifically her showing emotion on her confession about how she got the dagger. how come when she actually did it, she showed no hesitation, no feelings, just killed her and yet when she talks with elan she has this huge emotion switch? we never even saw any signs that she feels remorse over what she has done, and now we're suppose to except it, so she would look good. i never regarded haley as a good character but now she just stumbled to the near bottom...
aside from that, hated that initiative joke because it was anticipated. everything else is awesome as always.

[Degnared]

i really hate what giant did with haley on this one, specifically her showing emotion on her confession about how she got the dagger. how come when she actually did it, she showed no hesitation, no feelings, just killed her and yet when she talks with elan she has this huge emotion switch? we never even saw any signs that she feels remorse over what she has done, and now we're suppose to except it, so she would look good.

I don't think she feels any personal remorse or guilt, but instead has some level of fear and apprehensive shame that Elan might disapprove.

[Terrace]

Did anyone else notice that the message from the cleric's Sending was EXACTLY 25 words? (Seriously, I counted them)

[sam79]

Did anyone else notice that the message from the cleric's Sending was EXACTLY 25 words? (Seriously, I counted them)

Quite a lot of people. Many of them on earlier pages of this thread. Well spotted though!

[Endarire]

The dark-skinned dual wielding elf reminded me of Drizz't.

[ceo]

(First post. Hi!)

I appear to have missed the bit with Haley's father. Anyone care to refresh my memory?

[Porthos]

(First post. Hi!)

I appear to have missed the bit with Haley's father. Anyone care to refresh my memory?

This strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0131.html) (plus some stuff in Origins that expands on it slightly [placing Tyrinaria on the Western Continent for example]) pretty much explains all we know at the moment.

Everything else is just Fan Theory.

[Random832]

(First post. Hi!)

I appear to have missed the bit with Haley's father. Anyone care to refresh my memory?

Haley's father was imprisoned by Lord Tyrinar, evil overlord of Tyrinaria (modest, too!), and she has to pay 200,000GP for him to "consider granting clemency". Earning the money for this was her main reason for leaving to become an adventurer.

A popular fan theory is that this is Nale's (and therefore Elan's) father.

Oh, and am I completely crazy or do I remember someone saying that Bozzok was somehow responsible for it?

[Porthos]

Oh, and am I completely crazy or do I remember someone saying that Bozzok was somehow responsible for it?

No, I'd forgotten about that detail before you mentioned it.

You are quite right on that score. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0609.html)

[amanamana]

Something I need to say:

PPUTAQUEOSPARIUTRESPORQUATRODOAVESSO

ok back to english :smallsmile:

Quite sweet comic, I had no words in english to express my awe.

Tumbs up.

Huahhahahahaha... Man, that was totally unexpected! Almost went down on the floor with this one. That's not what we expect to read on an American forum!:smallbiggrin:

abraço!

[Mike_the_Mystic]

I love that last line. "Liberation: Commencing". You always make me smile Mr. Burlew, and I enjoy that.:smallsmile:

[Estelindis]

Wow! Immense fabulosity! So much happens in this strip! :smalleek: :smallbiggrin:

So, Haley just told Elan everything about her dad?

The elves are helping the Azurites?

The Order is getting reading to move on the next gate?

Pure, epic win. I think the best line out of the whole lot was "one saving throw at a time." Delivered totally deadpan, but we know the kind of horrible situations to which O-Chul's alluding (and concerning which he hasn't had the least bit of angst to the rest of the group - go balanced paladin!).

[Ridureyu]

Are elves immune to the Bouncy Ball of Insanity?

[Boogastreehouse]

my least favorite strip in a while. i really hate what giant did with haley on this one, specifically her showing emotion on her confession about how she got the dagger. how come when she actually did it, she showed no hesitation, no feelings, just killed her and yet when she talks with elan she has this huge emotion switch? we never even saw any signs that she feels remorse over what she has done, and now we're suppose to except it, so she would look good. i never regarded haley as a good character but now she just stumbled to the near bottom...
aside from that, hated that initiative joke because it was anticipated. everything else is awesome as always.

Y'know, I can see your point, but it didn't come across as inconsistent to me. The way I saw it, she may indeed have shown no hesitation, no feelings and just killed Crystal, but that doesn't mean that she wouldn't later be afraid that she had disappointed the person she loves.

[DnDgeek13]

one saving throw at a time. Go O-chul!

[UltimatheChosen]

When Hinjo started talking about old allies who were slow to go to war, I at first thought the Twelve Gods were gonna step in.

[Aron Times]

Ok, I'm an old 2E guy, so mebbe you kids can explain this to me. In panels 8-9B, the pink-haired elf is carrying a sword and shield. But in 10B, the elf is casting a sending spell and the shield is gone, unless the magical effect is concealing it. So what class or build would allow this combo?
The pink-haired elf is a cleric. Elves can use longswords regardless of class, while clerics can use shields and can cast Sending.

[Tyrmatt]

Oh yeah. The drums of war sound again, this time with the heroes doing the banging. Rich is gearing up for a brutal arc where there's still everything to play for, right down to the last second. One day I'll be rich enough to pay Burlew to live in my basement and draw all day. :sigh:

A lot of resolution, O-Chul's almost insane dedication to fighting evil has payoffs for everyone else and Team Peregrine are moving in to be ready to strike when Xykon forces Redcloak to teleport out and leave his fledgling goblin nation to the mercy of the older, wiser and more powerful elves. A shame really. With a bit of work, it would've been a great gobbo town. On the other hand, high-level elven mages getting ready to go up against Xykon? Now Xykon gets the full Batman treatment, with the hundreds of years of elven wisdom and wizardry getting ready to pull out the Lich Sorcerer Repellent Spray. Mmm that would be a fight to behold.

And is that Skirmish damage been used there? Now there' something that isn't core...how high level does an adventurer have to be to one-shot a standard MM hobgoblin fighter and cleric?

[hamishspence]

It looks like Elan is willing to ditch "bardic tradition" in favour of "common sense".

Possibly a good sign for the future.

[Dervag]

"One saving throw at a time..."

Hilarious. And quite badass.

[pendell]

Liberation commencing?
That ... is ... so ... COOL!

And O-chul adds to his awesome legend by using the torture he suffered to re-construct Xykon's spell list! That's ... incredible.

This isn't the funniest strip in awhile, but by gosh it is just about the coolest I have seen for a long time. Awesome!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Draz74]

And is that Skirmish damage been used there? Now there' something that isn't core...how high level does an adventurer have to be to one-shot a standard MM hobgoblin fighter and cleric?

Depends how much Favored Enemy (goblinoids) he has, and how magical his swords are.

I really doubt Giant's breaking Core-only for this one. Multiclass Rogue and Sneak Attack damage would be more likely.

[Zanaril]

I just noticed: are the elves speaking Common or Elvish? There's no < >s around their text...

[Boogastreehouse]

Since the Nine (or more) sides have been brought up, this is my take on it. It's incomplete, of course, because we don't yet know everything.

These are the sides. People aligned to a side might have their own agenda, but they still fit into one of the larger factions.

Xykon --the lich who wants to take control of the gates, mainly just because he can. His pawns include Tsukiko, Redcloak (who actually belongs to another side), and the MiD (who will probably turn on him)

The Gods --beings who want to keep the Snarl imprisoned, for their own protection and incidentally for the benefit of the world. They have a lot in common with the Mortals United to Defeat Xykon, but would probably abandon the mortals to save themselves. The gods who were/are secretly aiding The Dark One (Loki, I think? And Rat? And Tiamat?) might be on that side, or belong to a faction of their own.

The Snarl --a creature that wants to unmake the world. No known pawns.

The Mortals United (more or less) to Defeat Xykon --This faction is different from the gods, because it has been implied that the gods might just wait and see what happens—they'll hide somewhere safe again if the world gets another wipe and just re-boot it again later. The mortals on the other hand intend to fight to survive. This faction so far includes The Sapphire Guard, their allies the Elves, probably the Dwarves and, of course, the Order of the Stick.

The IFCC --An Infernal Alliance that now knows of the gates that imprison the Snarl. Their stated goal is to storm the Gates of Heaven in a properly Milton-like fashion, probably using the Snarl as a weapon. Assuming they're telling the truth. Their pawns include The Linear Guild, Quaar, and now Vaarsuvius

The Dark One --that Redcloak worships. I have yet to read any of the material not online (Start of Darkness, etc...) but I have gleaned from other people's comments that
the Dark One is prepared to use the Snarl unmake civilization. Now that the Dark One is a god, he expects to be able to survive the destruction, like the gods managed to do last time, and then be a part of the process of remaking the next world.

Is that everyone?

(Edit: I started a thread with this post, just for fun.)

[David Argall]

Probably not that far in the future, though. If Hinjo got Durkon to send a message to his allies the night before, on the general subject of gathering intelligence from Azure City, it is perhaps likely that the Elven strike team had already been put together, awaiting an opportune moment. The arrival of the Order and O-Chul with valuable intelligence looks like that trigger. I guess we need assume no more than a day of delay between panels 6 and 7 to allow Team Peregrine to get appropriately tooled and spelled up.

Actually, we can talk about a week of general confusion. This morning, Hinjo was in the middle of the sea, looking for a place to settle, with little luck. The party was still scattered. Roy was still dead. And none of O-Chul's or Haley's information was known, and probably not even expected. Right now the elves have had both reports for barely long enough to read them, and may not have received them at all.
So the high command has to get the reports, consider them, and pass them down to those who will slip in, who must also consider them and make plans.
While the idea of teleporting near Azure City and walking in should be obvious to the point of them having done it months ago, our text suggests they have not tried anything of the sort. That means no strike team was organized in advance. They didn't know what was going on, and did nothing. So only now do they know they can teleport nearby and slip in, and they start organizing.
We are talking a week, even before we start mentioning elven slowness.

[Tyrmatt]

Depends how much Favored Enemy (goblinoids) he has, and how magical his swords are.

I really doubt Giant's breaking Core-only for this one. Multiclass Rogue and Sneak Attack damage would be more likely.

Having just noted that the average hobgoblin has 1d8 HP from a 1st level perspective, it's not a good thing to draw any conclusions from that. Also if we factor in things like Belkar not getting any experience from killing hobgoblins in battle, this means that the majority of hobbos in Azure City are below 4th level.
Better to compare this with Peregrine Wizard using Teleport, meaning he's at least 9th level (himself + 3 other medium creatures is how you interpret the rules for that right?) and more likely around 13th level for the expert precision that Greater Teleport affords, particularly in executing a careful landing on a mountain path the elf has probably never visited.
Off to the Geekery thread!

[hamishspence]

"I've been trying to convince them to act for months"

Suggesting that one of the first things the fleet did, when they left Azure City, was get in touch with their old allies.

Maybe the "elven slowness" was simply them mulling it over, and once the important info was sent by Hinjo, they swung into action.

[Antrozous]

Sweet! Androgynous elves have never been so...

Bad. Ass.:smallcool:

[mistformsquirrl]

Ok, I'm an old 2E guy, so mebbe you kids can explain this to me. In panels 8-9B, the pink-haired elf is carrying a sword and shield. But in 10B, the elf is casting a sending spell and the shield is gone, unless the magical effect is concealing it. So what class or build would allow this combo?

There's a lot of ways to achieve this in 3.5e >.>

A few off the top of my head:

Cleric (Elves get Longsword proficiency no matter what, so an elven cleric is by default able to do this)

Fighter/Wizard/Appropriate Prestige Class/feats (There are several different methods of this, including a few that use other-than-fighter melee classes to start even >.>)

Beguiler as mentioned above me might be able to (I don't know enough about them to say there).

Hrmm.. can Bards use Sending? That's one I'm not sure of; but I know they can wear light armor and cast spells; and again, Elves have Longsword proficiency. (I suppose Bard might too actually; but it's a class I've never been interested in so I've never really paid attention >.<)

I'm sure there are other ways too that I'm not thinking of.

*edit*

And yes, awesome strip <^.^> Team Peregrine is made of WIN. Of late I've found elves more and more annoying; and then suddenly OOTS brings back my old love of them <._.>m is there anything OOTS can't do? <,<

[Wonton]

I... didn't get that somehow. When Hinjo mentions the 'old allies slow to go to war', is he talking about Team Peregrine? And if so, why are they talking about Thanh? Isn't that the High Priest that threw Durkon out of his homeland? And what does the "let's just say your wizard hasn't been the only one frustrated at the lack of available intelligence on our homeland" bit mean?

In short, I'm confused. :smallfrown:

[RMS Oceanic]

Since the Nine (or more) sides have been brought up, this is my take on it. It's incomplete, of course, because we don't yet know everything.

These are the sides. People aligned to a side might have their own agenda, but they still fit into one of the larger factions.

Xykon --the lich who wants to take control of the gates, mainly just because he can. His pawns include Tsukiko, Redcloak (who actually belongs to another side), and the MiD (who will probably turn on him)

The Gods --beings who want to keep the Snarl imprisoned, for their own protection and incidentally for the benefit of the world. They have a lot in common with the Mortals United to Defeat Xykon, but would probably abandon the mortals to save themselves. The gods who were/are secretly aiding The Dark One (Loki, I think? And Rat? And Tiamat?) might be on that side, or belong to a faction of their own.

The Snarl --a creature that wants to unmake the world. No known pawns.

The Mortals United (more or less) to Defeat Xykon --This faction is different from the gods, because it has been implied that the gods might just wait and see what happens—they'll hide somewhere safe again if the world gets another wipe and just re-boot it again later. The mortals on the other hand intend to fight to survive. This faction so far includes The Sapphire Guard, their allies the Elves, probably the Dwarves and, of course, the Order of the Stick.

The IFCC --An Infernal Alliance that now knows of the gates that imprison the Snarl. Their stated goal is to storm the Gates of Heaven in a properly Milton-like fashion, probably using the Snarl as a weapon. Assuming they're telling the truth. Their pawns include The Linear Guild, Quaar, and now Vaarsuvius

The Dark One --that Redcloak worships. I have yet to read any of the material not online (Start of Darkness, etc...) but I have gleaned from other people's comments that
the Dark One is prepared to use the Snarl unmake civilization. Now that the Dark One is a god, he expects to be able to survive the destruction, like the gods managed to do last time, and then be a part of the process of remaking the next world.

Is that everyone?

I think you could split some of those. Just because Team Good is fighting towards the same end doesn't mean all their objectives are identical. Team Good would be The Order, Azure City/Island and now the Elves.

Similarly, the IFCC's goals and the Linear Guild's goals aren't necessarily the same, so they're two different sides.

As for others we haven't seen yet, Lord Tyrrinar seems like a good bet to get involved once they land on the Western Continent proper.

[hamishspence]

I... didn't get that somehow. When Hinjo mentions the 'old allies slow to go to war', is he talking about Team Peregrine? And if so, why are they talking about Thanh? Isn't that the High Priest that threw Durkon out of his homeland? And what does the "let's just say your wizard hasn't been the only one frustrated at the lack of available intelligence on our homeland" bit mean?

In short, I'm confused. :smallfrown:


Old allies are the elven kingdoms of the Western Continent.

War & XPs mentions the long-standing alliance in the back of the book.

Thanh is the current head of The Resistance- a paladin of the Sapphire Guard.

If Hinjo contacted the elves way back, they may have been trying to scry on Azure City for a while.

[Elfin]

I... didn't get that somehow. When Hinjo mentions the 'old allies slow to go to war', is he talking about Team Peregrine? And if so, why are they talking about Thanh? Isn't that the High Priest that threw Durkon out of his homeland? And what does the "let's just say your wizard hasn't been the only one frustrated at the lack of available intelligence on our homeland" bit mean?

In short, I'm confused. :smallfrown:

The "old allies slow to go to war" are the elves. Thanh is the Azurite paladin who now leads the Resistance. High Priest Hurak kicked Durkon out of the dwarven lands. The elves, allies of Azure City, have not been able to contact Azure City due to the Cloister, and are frustrated by it just as Vaarsuvius was when trying to contact Haley.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

[sam79]

Actually, we can talk about a week of general confusion. This morning, Hinjo was in the middle of the sea, looking for a place to settle, with little luck. The party was still scattered. Roy was still dead. And none of O-Chul's or Haley's information was known, and probably not even expected. Right now the elves have had both reports for barely long enough to read them, and may not have received them at all.
So the high command has to get the reports, consider them, and pass them down to those who will slip in, who must also consider them and make plans.
While the idea of teleporting near Azure City and walking in should be obvious to the point of them having done it months ago, our text suggests they have not tried anything of the sort. That means no strike team was organized in advance. They didn't know what was going on, and did nothing. So only now do they know they can teleport nearby and slip in, and they start organizing.
We are talking a week, even before we start mentioning elven slowness.

True, a week of delay is entirely possible; but I think we can give Hinjo (and the Elves) a little more credit than that. Yes, he was looking for a place to settle, and today's OotS events will have taken him somewhat by surprise; but the goings-on of the Order members are probably of secondary importance to Hinjo. Roy's being alive, for example, doesn't actually effect his plans with the Elves at all. He has been negotiating with his closest allies for months, and has been impatient for information, and has clearly been thinking in terms of eventual reconquest. It seems not unlikely that some sort of infiltration by the Elves was already being planned, with the aim of gathering some of the data now provided by Haley. It is likely, for instance, that Team Peregrine was already formed and good to go.

In the light of the extra intelligence from O-Chul and Haley, obviously the plans needed to be changed somewhat; they are not going simply to find out the lie of the land, but to actually do something, co-coordinating with a named individual and his guerilla forces. Given that they are likely to be quite high level (I gather that the use of the Teleport spell gives us a certain guide to their minimum likely level), I don't think any changes of plans will have to go through a Byzantine hierarchy. Like the Order and Hinjo, the Peregrines are likely powerful enough to be talking directly to the high command in person. This could take a week, as these people are Elves; but it could take no more time than it would take the spellcasters to revise their spell selections; after all, Team Peregrine are pretty clearly adventurers.

Basically, we don't know. The comic itself doesn't suggest a long time delay between frame 6 and 7 of the second strip, but neither does it suggest a short one.

[Boogastreehouse]

I think you could split some of those. Just because Team Good is fighting towards the same end doesn't mean all their objectives are identical. Team Good would be The Order, Azure City/Island and now the Elves.

Similarly, the IFCC's goals and the Linear Guild's goals aren't necessarily the same, so they're two different sides.

As for others we haven't seen yet, Lord Tyrrinar seems like a good bet to get involved once they land on the Western Continent proper.

Well the IFCC just stated that the Linear Guild was their pawns, so I'm reluctant to split them up. They're all working together, even if the Guild doesn't know it, yet. I could see maybe splitting up Team Good into more than one side. Especially if it turns out that the Elves and the Dwarves hate each other or something.

I am interested in seeing where Lord Tyrrinar fits into all of this. And who the teleporting lizard-folk work for.

[Kallt Tag]

Rebarth, "when she talks with Elan she has this huge emotion switch?"
Elan the Bard just crit his denouement and Haley is stunned, "Wow... Okay..." Despite her glib response to Roy.
She has shown her concern for Elan's feelings before this strip. She does not care if the Order believes her greedy, but Elan's perception is important to her.

Thanks Selene, forgot about the round buttocks in character design: Orange hair archer is female.

[amanamana]

I have this little feeling that WOW just don't mean the same.... hehehehehe

You can bet on that! "WOW" in Portuguese is simply "UAU".
That... what he said... is classic for someone from São Paulo. It's a lot of words together, that sounds like someone from there expressing his amazement. They can talk pretty fast when using those expressions.

[stevekgoodwin]

:haley: Inititative? Where? I got a 23! :smallbiggrin: I LOLed. Harks back to :elan: "I got a 4".

Now... imagine if the elven liberation front of Judea are not whom they seem and are, in fact...


...the :nale: :sabine: :thog: Linear Guild in disguise on their way to rendevous with :xykon:

:elan: Dum dum daaaaaaaa

[waterpenguin43]

I was took by suprise when I found out contingency, cloudkill and soul bind were Xykon's spells. They don't feel Xykon-ish. But awesome comic, Rich.

[SmartAlec]

how come when she actually did it, she showed no hesitation, no feelings, just killed her and yet when she talks with elan she has this huge emotion switch? we never even saw any signs that she feels remorse over what she has done, and now we're suppose to except it, so she would look good.

It's not remorse she's showing, exactly. Haley's always had a deep-down feeling that she's too much of a bad person to deserve being loved by someone like Elan, and here's a point when she puts it to the test. Some trepidation on her part would make sense.

[Tubal-Cain]

Did the elves just kill Jirix again, or is the blue cloak a symbol of rank?

[hamishspence]

I was took by suprise when I found out contingency, cloudkill and soul bind were Xykon's spells. They don't feel Xykon-ish. But awesome comic, Rich.

Xykon uses both Cloudkill and Soul Bind in SoD.

[HereticNox]

I wonder is this a second group of PCs, or are they just going to be important NPCs.

I ask because first thing I thought of when I saw the elves was, "Looks like the DM is running a second game/group."

[Rev. George]

cloudkill and soul bind were Xykon's spells. They don't feel Xykon-ish. But awesome comic, Rich.

I dunno about cloudkill, but Xykon is big on soul-binding enemies- it makes sense, as this prevents them from coming after him...He's done it on camera (though in the books) to two people.

-+G

[syskill]

We can actually go a little further than O-chul -- IMO the most likely candidate for the unknown 8th-level spell is Xykon's Moderately-Escapable Forcecage (cf. #376 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0376.html)).

Or rather, it would be if Giant really has a hard-and-fast list of all Xykon's spells, which I suspect he doesn't.

[Aaron]

Awesome!!! What a great way to wrap up this story arc!

Horay for :haley: and :elan:.

[teratorn]

Did the elves just kill Jirix again, or is the blue cloak a symbol of rank?

It would be fun if it were Jirix. Doomed to die every few strips.

[Draxonicar]

Nice........And the threads speculating who the party is begin!


But yeah, elvs living so long maks em slow to act, I'd reckon......



kind of like grisgol, actually

[Deliverance]

Nice........And the threads speculating who the party is begin!

Well, if the elves are old enough or traditionalists, it is a fighter/thief/magic user/cleric group. :)

[Zeful]

It would be fun if it were Jirix. Doomed to die every few strips.

Oh my god, you killed Jirix!

[Tubal-Cain]

Xykon has already stated in the most explicit terms possible that they're off to Gerard's Gate as soon as they find his holy box. The Elf assault strongly suggests one of two things:
*snip*

I'm thinking that the Elf assault lies low for a few days/weeks, summoning only as many extra parties as they can hide, and coming out of the woodwork the instant Xykon and friends leave. At least, that's probably their plan.

[Roderick_BR]

Oh, damn. I got goosebumps from reading it :smallbiggrin: I love tactical stuff too. And damnit, O-Chul took note of all the spells they were using? He's more awesome than we thought!
And Haley's info will help the SG start their moves to take the city back. I can't wait to see what'll happen next!

[Rebarth]

It's not remorse she's showing, exactly. Haley's always had a deep-down feeling that she's too much of a bad person to deserve being loved by someone like Elan, and here's a point when she puts it to the test. Some trepidation on her part would make sense.

ah, but see, if that is true than that would mean that haley KNOWS that what she did is wrong. that what she did is not GOOD. if it is not remorse over her actions she is showing then it is as you say, she simply cares only for elan's "image" of her. she doesn't care if what she did is wrong, she just cares if its gonna ruin her relationship with a good guy. i suppose its possible that she only thought of her actions only when she spoke to elan, but the problem with that theory is that it's implying that haley is not a character who can distinguish between good acts and evil acts. in other words, neutral. now, it may be possible that she actually gave the matter some thought, but non of the previous strips hint of that, only 670 implies that she might have... what i'm trying to say by all of this is that i find haley guilty of being neutral, unless proven otherwise. in other words, unless future strips shine some light on the subject, she is neutral as far as im concerned. case dismissed.

[Jagos]

Hmmm...

Why did the elves want to strike on hobgoblins anyway?

I'm not seeing the reasoning for the elves to take down Xykon.

[Kish]

Because they're allies of Azure City. What Hinjo said looked pretty clear to me, even if it didn't have confirmation from No Cure for the Paladin Blues.

[fruityjanitor]

Great comic. Totally worth the wait.

"One saving throw at a time" is pretty much the awesomest line of all time.

I thought it was really sweet when Elan said he was torn about telling Haley or not and then immediately decided to tell her so they could have a happy ending. And I bet a lot of forumites wish they could've heard Haley's story :smallbiggrin:

The elven adventures at the end were pretty awesome too! Thanks, Giant!

[Sijo]

Is it me, or is the strip this week extra-long? A delayed one included maybe?

Anyway, I'm happy to see Elan and Haley being honest with each other. That will prevent problems later. Though note she isn't telling the others... I wonder if Elan will be affected by her confessions at all? He isn't as innocent as he used to be...

O-Chul listed all that info FROM MEMORY? He IS badass!!

Attacking Azure City now would be a mistake. Good thing that doesn't seem to be what they will do. The Elves will likely establish ways to invade the city (and hopefully try to take over AFTER Xykon leaves) and hopefully the OotS will get to gate before boneface and his cohorts do.

[Mr. Scaly]

I'm going to be in the minority I think, and say that something about this page felt off. All of a sudden everything is going their way on every level. That's a serious mood whiplash right there.

Plus that last few panels hurt it for me cause...well, I hate elves.

[teratorn]

Hmmm...

Why did the elves want to strike on hobgoblins anyway?

I'm not seeing the reasoning for the elves to take down Xykon.

We don't know how far are the elven lands. They may feel uncomfortable with
the presence of a nearby goblin settlement, and the alliance thing gives them
an excuse to attack them.


what i'm trying to say by all of this is that i find haley guilty of being neutral, unless proven otherwise. in other words, unless future strips shine some light on the subject, she is neutral as far as im concerned. case dismissed.

From the first story arc we know all members of the order were good except for Belkar (and that includes V).

[Wadoka]

The dark-skinned dual wielding elf reminded me of Drizz't.


SHHHHH!

We don't talk about that.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0065.html

:)

[Tubal-Cain]

Is it me, or is the strip this week extra-long? A delayed one included maybe?

The Giant uses a single size of 'page' for OotS (most of the time). The first page clearly ends (look at the borders) under the box containing O-Chul's "One saving throw at a time" line.

[Renegade Paladin]

I'll have you know I cheered. :smallbiggrin:

[Herald Alberich]

The Giant uses a single size of 'page' for OotS (most of the time). The first page clearly ends (look at the borders) under the box containing O-Chul's "One saving throw at a time" line.

Don't assume that means this is two strips combined after the first one was delayed, though. Strips with lots of story are often two or three pages long. I may be wrong, but there's only one four-page strip to my knowledge, that of the first fight with Miko, #200. And then there's the strip of Roy's death, where all of the above was thrown out the window.

[Atomic Knight]

I've been lurking here for a few months, so now seemed as good a time as any to register an account and mention a possibility of the -much anticipated- plot twist.

May I please draw your attention to frames 18 and 19. Now, look carefully for a few seconds...

I'm not one to speculate on D&D rules or the hit points of a NPC (since I don't play), but a goblin (the one the elves landed on) was alive when he fell off the cliff, and honestly, the fall doesn't look very far.

A human could survive with a few scrapes and bruises, maybe a broken bone. Even if Mr. Goblin had glass bones, he'd still stand a good chance at surviving; in real life, at least.

What could this mean for Team Peregrine? Let the speculation begin! :smallwink:

Edit: Before I forget, "One saving throw at a time." == Epic.

[Herald Alberich]

I've been lurking here for a few months, so now seemed as good a time as any to register an account and mention a possibility of the -much anticipated- plot twist.

May I please draw your attention to frames 18 and 19. Now, look carefully for a few seconds...

I'm not one to speculate on D&D rules or the hit points of a NPC (since I don't play), but a goblin (the one the elves landed on) was alive when he fell off the cliff, and honestly, the fall doesn't look very far.

A human could survive with a few scrapes and bruises, maybe a broken bone. Even if Mr. Goblin had glass bones, he'd still stand a good chance at surviving; in real life, at least.

What could this mean for Team Peregrine? Let the speculation begin! :smallwink:

That the rogue shot him from the cliffside? Or maybe the wizard, since he didn't fight anyone else? I rather doubt they'd let a detail like that slip away.

[the_tick_rules]

Yeah, sometimes the best method is not to out magic the magic but to go around it. Sometimes simplicity can outgo complexity.

[Auron]

O-Chul=Awesome. The elves were pretty fun too. :smalltongue:

[Leo_Forestclaw]

Was anyone else hit as hard by the comment, "One saving throw at a time."

That O'Chull says so much and so very little with that comment and his body language.... Just a brilliant moment, Rich.

Bravo.

[StClair]

"One saving throw at a time."

Bad. Ass.

[Waterchild]

Xykon has Resilient Sphere? And he didn't use it on the raven who was dangling his phylactery over the tear in reality?

Is Xykon suddenly an idiot or did he spend all his 4th level spell slots picking his nasal cavity?

Also, with regards to Roy forgetting everything beyond the gate but remembering his mom troubles... he didn't say he'd forgotten everything, just that it was a blur. Even in a blur, some things stand out to you. :) And he did spend months in the afterlife.

[Rin_Hunter]

Does anyone else hope that O-Chul's list is released as bonus content in the next book since it's bound to be coming out very soon. Spoilered just in case Rich reads this and delays the book to add it or something. I want the book!:smallbiggrin:

[Itamarcu]

don't worry, rich won't read your spoiler. or mine...

Great comic, but I don't think it will be the end for book 4.

[BriarHobbit]

Great comic. Worth the wait. The Elvish world has come to the help and liberate of the blue.

[Red XIV]

Did the elves just kill Jirix again, or is the blue cloak a symbol of rank?
No. Jirix has a darker blue cloak and a gray and blue holy symbol. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0543.html) This was just a run of the mill hobgoblin cleric.

[TigerHunter]

I just noticed that the background gets darker between panels 3 and 5. Nice detail, Giant.

[sam79]

ah, but see, if that is true than that would mean that haley KNOWS that what she did is wrong. that what she did is not GOOD.

Not really. She may think it is right and that it was a good thing to do; but is worried that Elan's standard of goodness is higher than her own. Just as Miko, and other, more sane, paladins, have a different standard of what good means, and just as Redcloak and Xykon are at very different points on the Evil scale. In other words, we need not assume that just becasue a given action of Haley's might not (in her mind) meet Elan's standard of Good, that it is therefore evil, or even neutral.

Given that no adverse reaction to her revelation is implied, it looks like this is, as a previos poster said, about Haley's own insecurity about deserving Elan, rather than worrying about an 'evil' deed in and of itself.


in other words, unless future strips shine some light on the subject, she is neutral as far as im concerned. case dismissed.

To each his own. In my view, Haley's actions and attitudes seems consistent with her own statement on the subject; Chaotic Good-ish.

And you probably meant 'case closed' rather than 'case dismissed', by the way! :smallwink:

[Tobz]

Nice detail in the progressing darkness of the sky between panels 3, 5 and then the rest of the first page. And nice use of Elan's 4th-wall-breaking bard ability to minimalize future plot derailment. :smallamused:

It's a bit weird though how Roy mentioned afterlife being a big blur, yet still remembers his mother's 'whoring up the whole afterlife' (perhaps being told so by the Oracle, recreating the mental image, while outside the 'blur' zone helped)?

With the current pace of updates, I'd personally prefer it though, if Rich would just split up those 2-page episodes into 2 quicker updates.

Yeah, yeah, forbidden topic, I know. And Rich does what Rich wants. Let us all, like good obedient little fanboys and girls, just ignore that big pink thing in the room, while the zealous mods eradicate any mention of the word 'elephant'. :smallannoyed:

[lothos]

To echo Fruityjanitor, BriarHobbit (and possibly others I've missed), "Worth the wait". Definitely what I was thinking.

There were so many nice things in this strip for me:

O-Chul engaging in class and level geekery over team evil's abilities, even apologising for speculating.... I think it will warm the hearts of those who obsess over the class and level geekery in the forum threads here. Now they are in great company, awesome company ! Plus there's a really sensible reason for him to do this, gathering strategic information. Very nice indeed.
Haley and Elan's discussions. I too wonder exactly how Elan will react to Haley's outpouring. I'm pretty sure he will feel closer to her knowing more about her motivation for wanting to raise the 200,000gp she needs. How will she react to Haley killing Crystal. Though I argued in another thread that Haley's action's were not evil, I know many people in the forums think her actions were evil. Will Elan ? Can't wait to find out.
Team Peregrine. Does anyone else think they might be the subject of a forthcoming book ? Rather than another prequel about the Order of the Scribble, perhaps a "side story" about team Peregrine with a few cameos by contemporaries like Thanh and others.
As others have already commented on, I loved the first words of the comic were "sorry to keep you waiting". If that was an apology from Rich, I'm happy to wait... this is a quality product, not a mass produced "economy" item. More is always nice, but I feel it's not the most important thing.

[BlueWizard]

And the drum-roll begins...
Soon, yes, soon the march to Xykon begins. :smallcool::smallcool::smallcool: