Is Rich going Thunt on us? And can he do it better than Thunt?

[Surfing HalfOrc]

No, I'm NOT talking about his posting rate! :smallwink:

What I'm talking about is the potential plot split, and the problems of two plot threads going on at the same time. Thunt has the goblins split right now, with the Goblin Adventure Party in Brassmoon City, while Dies Horribly was set up to explore a trap filled dungeon. And while some people want only one thread or the other, some of us like BOTH threads, especially if they remerge later with some point. But pacing them can be a bear, and somedays if feels like Dies Horribly has just dead ended...

Here we have Roy and his team about to run and try to head Xykon off at the pass, while Hinjo, O-Chul and the rest are about to take back Azure City. While Roy's story is clearly the main thread, I am interested in seeing how the Azurites take back Azure City.

Tolkien also did this in the Lord of the Rings, with Frodo and Sam going one way with Gollum, while the rest went another way to battle for major cities and to stop the orcs.

Am I the only one who sees this?

[Porthos]

What I'm talking about is the potential plot split, and the problems of two plot threads going on at the same time.

Where have you been for the last 160+ strips? :smalltongue:

EDIT: Seriously though, we've been "cutting away" to Team Evil ever since strip #117. (or, if one wants to be picky, Strip #23)

So an occasional look at what is going on over in Xykonland is hardly a new development. :smallwink:

[Nerd-o-rama]

Well, Rich has been running separate plot threads since the end of the Battle of Azure City, which unless I suck at counting is over a year now. He's just now joining them back together, in fact.

This is the first time he's introduced new characters out of the blue, unrelated to the Order or what they're currently doing. However, it's impossible to tell right now whether these guys are going to get plot focus or just sort of be there so Azure City can be liberated at some future date without it being a Deus Ex Machina.

[Erts]

This is the first time he's introduced new characters out of the blue, unrelated to the Order or what they're currently doing. However, it's impossible to tell right now whether these guys are going to get plot focus or just sort of be there so Azure City can be liberated at some future date without it being a Deus Ex Machina.

Miko, originally, but that was way back.

[Rogue 7]

Well, Rich has been running separate plot threads since the end of the Battle of Azure City, which unless I suck at counting is over a year now. He's just now joining them back together, in fact.

This is the first time he's introduced new characters out of the blue, unrelated to the Order or what they're currently doing. However, it's impossible to tell right now whether these guys are going to get plot focus or just sort of be there so Azure City can be liberated at some future date without it being a Deus Ex Machina.

It's been just about 2 years since the end of the battle for Azure City. I started reading OOTS when I started College, and I'll be starting my Junior year in September.

[Mr. Shiny Objec]

Orthos is right. There was a time when we had Team evil, Haley & the crew, Elan and the Azurites, and later, V of on their own tangent. Thi is the least plot threads we've had going since Durokan's gate.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

While the story was split, it still stayed focused on the Order of the (Broken) Stick. Three threads at once, Roy in Celestia and his family, Haley and Belkar in Azure City; Elan, Durkon and Vaarsuvius with the Azure Fleet. Plus short stops with Team Evil, and different semi-solo adventures.

But now there is the very strong posibility of a non-Order of the Stick plotline: the recapturing of Azure City. None of the members of the OotS will be taking part in that, but there certianly seems to be a good story brewing there. Same with both Thunt's story (Dies Horribly was never a part of the GAP), and Tolkien's LotR. Afterall, anybody who wasn't Frodo and Sam, or Gandalf, was "secondary."

Will people be interested in a potentially major arc made up of what amounts to purely secondary characters? Why wouldn't they be? I can see this going either way. I know I'd like to see what happens, and wouldn't mind a non-core character arc, but others might grumble and gripe every strip where none of the "main characters" ever appear.

[Erts]

Will people be interested in a potentially major arc made up of what amounts to purely secondary characters? Why wouldn't they be? I can see this going either way. I know I'd like to see what happens, and wouldn't mind a non-core character arc, but others might grumble and gripe every strip where none of the "main characters" ever appear.

I think that would be awesome, as long as it didn't go on too long (like till the end of the comic.)

[factotum]

The secondary plot in this case is the retaking of Azure City, and there's absolutely no reason why we're even going to see it unless it affects Xykon, Redcloak or Tsukiko--it simply isn't relevant to the plot apart from those three.

[SPoD]

While the story was split, it still stayed focused on the Order of the (Broken) Stick. Three threads at once, Roy in Celestia and his family, Haley and Belkar in Azure City; Elan, Durkon and Vaarsuvius with the Azure Fleet. Plus short stops with Team Evil, and different semi-solo adventures.

But now there is the very strong posibility of a non-Order of the Stick plotline: the recapturing of Azure City. None of the members of the OotS will be taking part in that, but there certianly seems to be a good story brewing there.

The very fact that there aren't any OOTS members participating is an overwhelming indication that no, we won't be seeing most of it "on-screen". We'll get periodic updates or we'll see Team Evil's side of it, but there won't be a long "Peregrine and the Resistance" plotline.

[Snake-Aes]

Speaking of Mister Hunt, I wonder if we could see Miko's afterlife, having a drink with Kore...

[archon_huskie]

Unless!

Unless Rich intents to release a book focused entirely on the adventures of the NPCs. And that work on this book has decreased the amount of time he has to work on the strip to one update a week for three weeks!

It could be happening. . . .

[Optimystik]

But now there is the very strong posibility of a non-Order of the Stick plotline: the recapturing of Azure City. None of the members of the OotS will be taking part in that, but there certianly seems to be a good story brewing there. Same with both Thunt's story (Dies Horribly was never a part of the GAP), and Tolkien's LotR. Afterall, anybody who wasn't Frodo and Sam, or Gandalf, was "secondary."

Merry and Pippin much? For that matter, Legolas, Aragorn and Gimli? Whole chapters devoted to your travails from your POV does not a secondary character make.

[lord_khaine]

Speaking of Mister Hunt, I wonder if we could see Miko's afterlife, having a drink with Kore...

Actualy i dont think they will be able to get along very well in the long run.

[Snake-Aes]

Merry and Pippin much? For that matter, Legolas, Aragorn and Gimli? Whole chapters devoted to your travails from your POV does not a secondary character make.

He may be talking about the movie. In the book Everyone from the Society has almost as much "paper time" than the protagonist. In fact, if presence and care with the character is what defines a protagonist, no one there is a protagonist except for the land itself.

[Ancalagon]

Why doing "better than Thunt"? I like goblins and as it goes... the only problem is your patience, young padawan...

[David Argall]

What sort of plot could we give this Azure City crew?

Xykon, and phylactery, and Team Evil, will eventually teleport off. The elves are not going to beat him up or even inconvenience him much. So what sort of story can we really give them?
There doesn't seem to be reason to bother.

[TigerHunter]

What sort of plot could we give this Azure City crew?

Xykon, and phylactery, and Team Evil, will eventually teleport off. The elves are not going to beat him up or even inconvenience him much. So what sort of story can we really give them?
There doesn't seem to be reason to bother.
Agreed. The way the strike team was treated made it seem more like this was, for now, the end of the focus on them. I believe Rich put them there so that they can play a role later in the comic, probably when the Order comes back to AC to help liberate it.

[Zherog]

Is Rich going Thunt on us?

Thunt? Could somebody translate?

[Jane_Doe]

What sort of plot could we give this Azure City crew?

Xykon, and phylactery, and Team Evil, will eventually teleport off. The elves are not going to beat him up or even inconvenience him much. So what sort of story can we really give them?
There doesn't seem to be reason to bother.

It'd be pretty easy, actually - the elves meet up with with Tan, get up-to-date information on the state of the city, and from there are sent out to liberate sites within the city as they're the highest level friendly party. The stakes would escalate as the liberation forces acquire arms and armor through Peregrine's raids, increasing the capability of the resistance to provide a more distributed threat, and eventually drive the goblins out of sectors of the city entirely near the end; Jirix and Tsukiko would be the primary opposition, unless new allies for them are introduced, attempting to deduce where Peregrine's next strike will be, react swiftly to their attacks, and attempt to goad them into acting at inopportune times.

In the end, it would look like they're about to win, having restricted the goblins free actions to the tower, and planning an attack on the tower itself - only for Xykon and Redcloak to return and swiftly deal with them in a tragic ending after Xykon realizes he'd left his keys in the library. Or, well, not, since that would be unnecessarily depressing, unless the author's in a cruel mood, and it would be perfectly within Xykon's character to abandon the city entirely.

It would be a great deal more local in scope than OotS, but it could certainly be developed into a proper story. I just don't think it's likely, since it seems strange that the elves would contribute only a single unit to liberate Azure City over the course of a week/month/etc instead of sending in several teleported units (or summoning more once in the city) that would be capable of ending the occupation in a single day.

[RMS Oceanic]

Thunt? Could somebody translate?

Author of the webcomic Goblins (http://www.goblinscomic.com). Currently has two major storylines it flicks back and forth from.

[JonestheSpy]

Well, I always enjoy Mr. Burlew's characterizations - he creates wonderful folks to inhabit his world. So if we see more of the EAP (that's Elven Adventuring Party, for you non Goblins readers), it would just be more Halloween candy in the pillowcase, in my humble opinion.

As for how it would affect the overall plot, I think it would be most relevent in testing Redcloak's loyalties. If his new hobgoblin nation is seriously threatened, Xykon probably wouldn't give a flying flumph, but Redcloak would want to do everything he could to protect it. If that happens at an important juncture in the struggle for the gates, that could be verrrry interesting.

oh, and:


Jirix and Tsukiko would be the primary opposition

This I can't see. Jirix might stay behind, but Tsukiko is definitely Xykon's henchperson, she's not going to be sticking around to hang out with a bunch of hobgoblins.

[Jane_Doe]

This I can't see. Jirix might stay behind, but Tsukiko is definitely Xykon's henchperson, she's not going to be sticking around to hang out with a bunch of hobgoblins.

Well, my logic is as follows...

1) Xykon must have left Azure City by the time Peregrine become active. Else, Peregrine is dealt with before they can do anything important, as they'd take too much spotlight from the Order if they had an actual impact on Xykon.

2) Redcloak must remain with Xykon. He's necessary for the ritual, and probably wouldn't trust Xykon to act independently.

3) Redcloak is aware of the fragile nature of the Goblin State, and knows how much he and Xykon personally contribute to the security of the state. It would be within his character to step up security if they were leaving, especially if he was given additional reason to be concerned.

4) Tsukiko is already familiar with the security system they've established, and acts as the city's response to dangerous situations.

5) Previously established characters would be necessary to serve as a "hook" for a liberation arc focusing on non-OotS characters.

6) It would feel weird to only split off one character.

7) Team Evil only has four named characters who are actually capable of doing anything (as the MitD isn't going to be revealed until the end of the strip).

As for Xykon vetoing the proposal... I just don't see him too involved in administrative functions, or really caring about Tsukiko to a significant degree. If Redcloak could provide a good reason for her to stay behind (unrelated to securing a goblin state, of course), I don't really see him objecting too much if he's calmed down since the last time we saw him. Tsukiko wouldn't appreciate being separated from Xykon from what we've seen, and has demonstrated a willingness to ignore Redcloak's plans in the past, but maybe she has enough room for character development to explain why she'd be willing to stay.

This is, naturally, assuming that Redcloak believes that they can handle the next gate without her.

Now, like I said, I don't think that we'll be seeing such a storyline, just that I see how a theoretical Peregrine arc could be written.

[Morquard]

No, Rich isn't going Thunt on us :)

a) It's the end of a comic arc, he's preparing the strips for book-print. He's probably doing his bonus strips at the moment, and thats why its a bit slow on updates. Or he doesn't want to take a long break after it, but rather slows down for a bit, so he can rest.

b) Goblins per strip has about as much content as two OOtS panels, so even if Rich is a bit slow right now, he's still advancing his story waaaay faster than Thunt.

(and yes, I know not about posting rate, but it was brought up anyway)

c) We had had splitups before. Yes, they mainly did show stuff the Order was involved, with the exception of Team Evil, but they're semi-main chars anyway.
I don't think we'll really see that much of the elfs. Maybe from Team Evils perspective, as long as they're searching for Xykon's phylactery. We didn't hear anything about the resistance or the theifs guild, or any other location they've been after they left.
But even if, he's not going to go Thunt on us here. Thunt kind of abandoned Dies Horribly, like ages ago and just followed the Brassmoon storyline.
Even when the Order was split, he never really stayed with one side for too long, without swithcing to another again.

I think we'll see some strips about the retake of Azure city, like the main points, then the rest in Bonus strips in the next book. Or maybe in a flashback when they meet again.

[Harr]

Actually, "Liberation: Commencing." sounds like a classic "open ending" type of finishing line: a line that is dramatic and gives you a vague idea of what's going to happen while still leaving you to fill it in for yourself. There's many novels/stories that do that... can't think of any right now though (I think Space Odyssey 2001 did it? Not sure.)

Could be wrong of course, I'm just saying it wouldn't be shocking if that storyline was left at that, with that line as a sendoff.

Personally I think it would drag everything too much to try to follow the two storylines if the OOTS is indeed separating from the Azurites for good.

Maybe it could be the plot of another print-only book or something...

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Merry and Pippin much? For that matter, Legolas, Aragorn and Gimli? Whole chapters devoted to your travails from your POV does not a secondary character make.

Yes. Merry and Pippin were the MacGuffin for Legolas, Aragorn and Gimli, and really didn't come into their own until after the main story was over. (LotR is nicknamed "The story that just wouldn't end" for that reason.:smallwink:)

Throw the Ring into the fire: Check
Return the King to his throne: Check
End the dual threats of Saruman(sp?) and Sauron: Check

Kick the Men out of the Shire: Um... Check, I guess. Do we care?
See Bilbo and Frodo and the Elves off at the docks? Check again. Do we care, again?
Other random details? (It's been a while, and the movie skipped over various parts. Tom Bombadil? The Barrow Wight?)

So now we have similar things in Goblins, and the potential for those similar things in this tale. Who (besides me, of course) cares about Dies Horribly? Who cares about Team Peregrin, Thahn, Hinjo and the Katos, etc, even though they have interesting stories are not central to the Rifts, the Snarl, or Xykon and Redcloak's threat?

These are all characters who are not central to what seems to be the "main story," yet have story potential of their own. But breaking away can be annoying to those who are more interested in "The Main Story" over "The Side Plots."

[Ancalagon]

Throw the Ring into the fire: Check
Return the King to his throne: Check
End the dual threats of Saruman(sp?) and Sauron: Check

Kick the Men out of the Shire: Um... Check, I guess. Do we care?

In case you did not notice: That aftermath is basically what the entire lotr is about.


See Bilbo and Frodo and the Elves off at the docks? Check again. Do we care, again?
Other random details? (It's been a while, and the movie skipped over various parts. Tom Bombadil? The Barrow Wight?)

I like those parts. All of them. End the "going away" is also very nice.


So now we have similar things in Goblins, and the potential for those similar things in this tale. Who (besides me, of course) cares about Dies Horribly? Who cares about Team Peregrin, Thahn, Hinjo and the Katos, etc, even though they have interesting stories are not central to the Rifts, the Snarl, or Xykon and Redcloak's threat?

I do care. I like that character. I also like the side stories. If only the "most effective way" counts, then they should have flown the ring with an eagle to the vulcano. That'd of course make an ugly, boring story.
I like side-stories, complex characters, side stories etc. Who cares about the "single troup of five adventurers"? I want a good story... and that I get, both here and over at goblinscomic.com.


These are all characters who are not central to what seems to be the "main story," yet have story potential of their own. But breaking away can be annoying to those who are more interested in "The Main Story" over "The Side Plots."

Make your own story that is only about the side-story and has no "side plots". I like what I see here and over there.

[Stegyre]

In case you did not notice: That aftermath is basically what the entire lotr is about.
I think you're missing his point. The first three: yeah, that's what the story's all about.

The last one -- the wrap up at the Shire -- not so much.

[Optimystik]

Yes. Merry and Pippin were the MacGuffin for Legolas, Aragorn and Gimli, and really didn't come into their own until after the main story was over. (LotR is nicknamed "The story that just wouldn't end" for that reason.:smallwink:)

Uh, there were a couple of events concerning Merry and Pippin that you missed in that analysis there. Namely, a tiny incident with some ancient treefolk that required a catalyst to join the war effort... a little spat with an invulnerable undead horror being flanked and hamstrung... a minute detail concerning an ancient artifact being possessed by the enemy... you know, minor details like that. But I suppose they were just macguffins.

You DID read the books, right?

[Kurald Galain]

What I'm talking about is the potential plot split, and the problems of two plot threads going on at the same time.

Whuh? He did that ages ago, with the fourfold plot split between Haley's group, Elan's group, Roy in heaven, and Team Evil.

And Rich is so much better than Thunt that they're not even in the same ballpark.

[Ancalagon]

I think you're missing his point. The first three: yeah, that's what the story's all about.

The last one -- the wrap up at the Shire -- not so much.

No. The fight in the Shire is very, very important. It is not about "the mystic evil, that lurks somewhere", but about the evil at home. People who destroy nature and enslave the hobbits for profit.
The "big evil" is not some god (Melkor) or half-god (Sauron) but some broken, old man (powerless Saruman), the lesson we learn at the end is "saving the world from metaphysical evil" is worth nothing if you do not make a stand against the little, day-to-day evil humans.

[Mewtarthio]

Merry and Pippin much? For that matter, Legolas, Aragorn and Gimli? Whole chapters devoted to your travails from your POV does not a secondary character make.

I take it you've never read anything by Stephen King.

[Susano-wo]

Please don't ever refer to them as the GAP ever again...-_-

I know what you mean regarding Dies' story seeming to be dead ending. I am very interested in him, as well as the subplot(ok, emerging major plot, really) of the winged terror, but the actual events have been kinda meh for the last few Dies strips.

RE LotR. Yes, the Scouring of the Shire is very important to the Lord of the Rings, and sending of Frodo, etc was a very nice and good thing to have. Really, the most extraneous thing in the books is Tom Bombadill, which I have always liked, even if it doesn't really contribute much to the plot. It gives the world metaphysical depth.
RE OotS characters. I agree that though you might be able to make something interesting on its own about Team Peregrine, it does seem as though it would probably be a bad idea. Not that I am not interested in them (or in a lot of the other characters mentioned, Hinjo, Lien, etc), but seeing more than a few interjections would probably hurt the narrative

[imp_fireball]

He may be talking about the movie. In the book Everyone from the Society has almost as much "paper time" than the protagonist. In fact, if presence and care with the character is what defines a protagonist, no one there is a protagonist except for the land itself.

Unless it ends up IN SPACE.

[Guancyto]

Unless!

Unless Rich intents to release a book focused entirely on the adventures of the NPCs.

Well, he already has On the Origin of PCs and Start of Darkness. It would make sense for the next all-bonus-material book to be about some side characters.

I doubt it'll happen any time soon, though.