A question about existence and the snarl

[Saknussem]

I am unclear on some things, and I am sure folks here will be kind enough to enlighten me. When we talk about the snarl unmaking existence, does this also include the infernal realms and all the afterlife realms? If so, why don't the halls of Valhalla (Valhalla IS one of the afterlife options in OotS, right?) empty out in order to defeat Xykon in order to protect the gate? I mean, wouldn't this sort of qualify as Ragnarok? End of all things? Massive evil thing coming to destroy all? Axe age? Sword age? Fimbulvetter? Fenris the Wolf will swallow the sun and the moon, and Thor will defeat The Midgard Serpent only to take three paces and die from its poison? I mean...the snarl seems like the opening kick off, all four quarters, AND the final whistle of existence. Come on Valkyries, time to ride to war. No?

[Jaltum]

We don't know. We know the Gods hid in the Outer Planes when the Snarl went crazy the first time, but we don't know that the afterlife-planes are synonymous with those planes.

[Berserk Monk]

I am unclear on some things, and I am sure folks here will be kind enough to enlighten me. When we talk about the snarl unmaking existence, does this also include the infernal realms and all the afterlife realms? If so, why don't the halls of Valhalla (Valhalla IS one of the afterlife options in OotS, right?) empty out in order to defeat Xykon in order to protect the gate? I mean, wouldn't this sort of qualify as Ragnarok? End of all things? Massive evil thing coming to destroy all? Axe age? Sword age? Fimbulvetter? Fenris the Wolf will swallow the sun and the moon, and Thor will defeat The Midgard Serpent only to take three paces and die from its poison? I mean...the snarl seems like the opening kick off, all four quarters, AND the final whistle of existence. Come on Valkyries, time to ride to war. No?

Yeah, well I'm pretty sure in Norse Mythology never Thor acted like a drunk frat boy and accidentally got a fertility goddess pregnant not knowing who she really was.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

I am unclear on some things, and I am sure folks here will be kind enough to enlighten me. When we talk about the snarl unmaking existence, does this also include the infernal realms and all the afterlife realms? If so, why don't the halls of Valhalla (Valhalla IS one of the afterlife options in OotS, right?) empty out in order to defeat Xykon in order to protect the gate? I mean, wouldn't this sort of qualify as Ragnarok? End of all things? Massive evil thing coming to destroy all? Axe age? Sword age? Fimbulvetter? Fenris the Wolf will swallow the sun and the moon, and Thor will defeat The Midgard Serpent only to take three paces and die from its poison? I mean...the snarl seems like the opening kick off, all four quarters, AND the final whistle of existence. Come on Valkyries, time to ride to war. No?

Well we don't know if you can defeat the Snarl that way.

But some times the cure is worse than the disease. The gods can remove the Snarl...by undoing creation and starting from scratch (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html).

And some times there is more to worry about than a world ending cataclysm. For ex, the ICCC is not trying to help Xykon or the OotS but to use them both while at the same time keep their plans from their overlords, Tiamat, and the other gods.

We know the Northern gods and Southern gods have border gods have border disputes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0453.html) even while OotS is trying to save Azure City and defeat Xykon. Perhaps each side is waiting to see what the other side will do...

[Acero]

ya think they would. especially after what they did to the gods of the east (the greeek gods)

[Erts]

I always thought that in OOTS that they are connected to the Multiversal Afterlifes. So, no, they would still exist.

OOTSworld is just one plane.

[Saknussem]

Thank you for the really sincere considered responses. I really was, no kidding around, thinking about this in terms of a potential world-ender for OotS and getting sad. But then I remembered Elan's happy ending, and I got un-sad.

[Saknussem]

Oh, Berserk Monk, ever really read any Norse mythology? The prose or poetic eddas? Thor is, when he isn't smashing things (mainly giants) to small itty bitty pieces with Mjolnir, being made to look like an IDIOT because he drank too much or bragged too much or chased too much (umm . . . sort through acceptable nouns) too many women! That is, from MY first hand experience, 100% FRATBOY behavior. As for impregnating a fertility goddess because he didn't know who she was, well . . .I will give you that one, LOL!! All I will say is that he would impregnate ANY Goddess given 1/5000 the chance.

[Zevox]

Because this is D&D, not Norse Mythology. Valhalla here is just one part of - or another name for, I'm not entirely clear on that - Ysgard, the Chaotic and partially good-aligned plane. And it does not have that sort of myth around it about preparing for a final battle like in Norse Mythology. Basically, it just has the name taken from Norse Mythology, nothing more.

Also, whether the Snarl would destroy the Outer Planes is unclear. We know there is some Plane the gods were able to hide in during his first rampage, so it at least doesn't destroy quite everything in the multiverse, but whether it stops at the Prime, the Inner Planes, or if the gods' hiding place was beyond even the Outer Planes, we simply don't know.

Zevox

[chionophile]

I'm not sure that it matters. Xykon isn't trying to release the snarl and destroy existence. He's trying to gain control of its power and thus, the world. Not quite the same thing and not something that the deities usually directly involve themselves in (short of cleric spells and such).

[EmperorSarda]

But some times the cure is worse than the disease. The gods can remove the Snarl...by undoing creation and starting from scratch (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html).


Actually that wouldn't kill the snarl, it would just remake the world without the rifts. Basically building a better prison around it.

[Larkspur]

I'm not sure that it matters. Xykon isn't trying to release the snarl and destroy existence. He's trying to gain control of its power and thus, the world. Not quite the same thing and not something that the deities usually directly involve themselves in (short of cleric spells and such).

But the gods should know that it's not actually possible to control the Snarl. From their perspective, it must look like Xykon is about to make an error with apocalyptic consequences; they really ought to be more concerned about stopping him.

Of course, the 12 gods have been protecting the gates pretty diligently by means of the Sapphire Guard (and not just their own gate, note, but all five- sending Miko after the Order was actually a violation of Soon's Oath).

But everyone from Tiamat to Freya should be getting involved here. Maybe the Aesir are too drunk? That doesn't explain why the Western gods are being so hands off.

[Andraste]

Actually that wouldn't kill the snarl, it would just remake the world without the rifts. Basically building a better prison around it.

And it might not even work. The Snarl might recognize what they were doing before they could finish since they had done it before, and stop them.