How many sides are there in this conflict anyway?

[Boogastreehouse]

Redcloak: How many sides are there in this conflict anyway? Three? Four? More?

Demon Roach: I count at least nine.

Other Demon Roach: Shh! They don't know about some of those yet!


I just posted this list on the thread for comic #670, but I thought I'd just put it here, too. What the heck.

Since the Nine (or more) sides have been brought up again, this is my take on it. It's incomplete, of course, because we don't yet know everything.

These are the sides. People aligned to a side might have their own agenda, but they still fit into one of the larger factions.

Xykon --the lich who wants to take control of the gates, mainly just because he can. His pawns include Tsukiko, Redcloak (who actually belongs to another side), and the MiD (who will probably turn on him)

The Gods --beings who want to keep the Snarl imprisoned, for their own protection and incidentally for the benefit of the world. They have a lot in common with the Mortals United to Defeat Xykon, but would probably abandon the mortals to save themselves. The gods who were/are secretly aiding The Dark One (Loki, I think? And Rat? And Tiamat?) might be on that side, or belong to a faction of their own.

The Snarl --a creature that wants to unmake the world. No known pawns.

The Mortals United (more or less) to Defeat Xykon --This faction is different from the gods, because it has been implied that the gods might just wait and see what happens—they'll hide somewhere safe again if the world gets another wipe and just re-boot it again later. The mortals on the other hand intend to fight to survive. This faction so far includes The Sapphire Guard, their allies the Elves, probably the Dwarves and, of course, the Order of the Stick.

The IFCC --An Infernal Alliance that now knows of the gates that imprison the Snarl. Their stated goal is to storm the Gates of Heaven in a properly Milton-like fashion, probably using the Snarl as a weapon. Assuming they're telling the truth. Their pawns include The Linear Guild, Quaar, and now Vaarsuvius

The Dark One --that Redcloak worships. I have yet to read any of the material not online (Start of Darkness, etc...) but I have gleaned from other people's comments that
the Dark One is prepared to use the Snarl unmake civilization. Now that the Dark One is a god, he expects to be able to survive the destruction, like the gods managed to do last time, and then be a part of the process of remaking the next world.

Is that everyone?

[Steward]

The Linear Guild might be one separate. I mean, apart from Sabine, I doubt that the others are willingly operating towards the same ends as the devils.

[rainbowjo]

I would say

1.OOTS
2.Xyklon +personal minions
3.Redcloak+goblins
4.Azurites
5.Linear Guild
6.IIFC
7. (maybe elves?)
8. Unknown
9.Unknown

[73 Bits of Lint]

The IFCC might view the Linear Guild as pawns, but that doesn't mean that Nale and Co. aren't an independent faction. I don't think that Nale knows about the IFCC, or that his girlfriend is working for them, and he certainly considers himself important enough to set his own agendas.
And considering how often the Order and the Azurites have locked horns in the past, and that they different priorities (Azurites' 1st Priority: slowing down the plot getting the city back; Order's 1st Priority: Killing Xykon/Saving the World), I'd put them in different camps.

Which still leaves one group unaccounted for. Maybe the MitD counts as his own side? He's certainly powerful enough.

[RMS Oceanic]

Looking from the perspective of the gates:

Team Good
Order of the Stick
Azure City/Island
The Elves
Any surviving members of the Order of the Scribble.

Team Evil
Xykon and Tsukiko
Redcloak and the Hobgoblins

Team EVIL
IFCC
The Linear Guild

Currently Uninvolved
Lord Tyrrinar
The Greysky Thieves Guild
Azure City Nobles
The Dwarves

[sam79]

A couple more lists were done in one of the Team Peregrine threads. Mine was pretty much the same as Rainbowjos, though I added the Azure City Resistance as a possible extra 'side'. I don't think the gods themselves or the snarl count as a side per se, and I counted the Linear Guild along with the IFCC; pawns don't get enough say on strategy to be considered a side!

If Redcloak's 'sides' were in relation to the Gates in general, rather than just Soon's Gate/Azure City, we can also add the Order of the Scribble to the list.

EDIT: Ninja'd re: Order of the Scribble!

Two members (Girard and the halfling whose name I've forgotten) are possibly still alive, and have an interest in defending the last two gates. Two further members, while not quite alive, are not totally out of the game either; see Start of Darkness for details!

[Acero]

as many as Rich makes

[Blue Ghost]

It would depend on your definition of "sides." Xykon and Redcloak have decidedly different goals, yet are working closely together, so they may or may not be considered the same side. Likewise, the IFCC is controlling the Linear Guild, so they may or may not be the same side.

[SPoD]

Given that the main disagreement that led to the dissolution of the Order of the Scribble was between Soon and Girard, I am willing to bet that Girard (possibly with Serini, if she's still alive) will be a separate side from the Sapphire Guard. As in, I expect Girard to actively oppose Hinjo due to his feelings about Soon, even though they are both seeking the protection of the Gates.

[David Argall]

At least 20 sides have been suggested.
There are at least a dozen we don't know about.
Therefore any possible continuation is going to be consistent with these statements, and we can not predict with any accuracy at all based on these statements. It is totally a waste of time to consider what might or might not be a side.

[sam79]

At least 20 sides have been suggested.
There are at least a dozen we don't know about.
Therefore any possible continuation is going to be consistent with these statements, and we can not predict with any accuracy at all based on these statements. It is totally a waste of time to consider what might or might not be a side.

One could argue that any time at all spent based on the future path of an online webcomic is pretty much the definition of a waste of time, but I digress.

Most of the 20 'sides' posited would be better defined as known actors or groups within the OotS worls. If we are more restrictive as to the context, i.e. people who have taken sides in the conflict at Azure City, or (more broadly) in the struggle for the gates, we lose a lot of these 'sides' pretty quickly. The thieves guild, Tiamat and Lord Tyranir, for example, do not (at least as far as we know) have anything to do with the Gates, so can't be considered as 'sides' in the Azure City fight that Redcloak was referring to.

Even with this more narrow definition, we are likely to be putting too much speculative weight on an off-hand jokey remark by a demon roach. But there seems little harm in that!

[Tempest Fennac]

Regarding The Dark One:

According to Start of Darkness, he'll only unmake Creation if the other dieties don't agree to alter the world so that everyone gets equal treatment; the dieties basically created things like Goblins and Lizardfolk so that low-level Clerics, who were there to serve the gods in order to reduce the chances of the problems which created the Snarl from occuring again, and the Dark One became a god after his attempts to raise an army before negotiating with humans to get land which could be lived on failed (NPC races were giving rubbish land so that they had to raid PC race settlements for food).

[Oracle_Hunter]

If we're talking about Sides, then we should consider the Goal: control of the Gates. Next, we see who has differing agenda and start counting.

(1) Order of the Stick: want to protect and repair the Gates
(2) Xykon: wants to use the Gates to Rule The World (tm)
(3) The Dark One: [redacted]
(4) The Inter-Fiend Cooperation Commission: wants to use the Gates to destroy The Forces of Good.
(5) Linear Guild: wants to use the Gates for [Generic Evil Plan]

Gate-wise, that's about it. Obviously we combine forces working towards a common end (OotS + Azurites + Elves, for example). I also can't count The Snarl as having an agenda regarding the Gates because, as far as we know, it cannot actually do anything to The Gates on its own.

Oh, and it's an animalistic ball of rage.

Other potential players
MitD: Incredibly powerful, and certainly opposed to Xykon & Co. Currently unaware of The Gates but, considering his recent conversion, he may become a powerful independent force.
Elves: Since their Gate was destroyed awhile ago, it is unclear exactly what interest they may have in the Gates. Since they may also have knowledge about the Gates, they may have a separate agenda as well.
Oracle: Little bugger has his fingers in many different pies. Does he have a master plan? Who can say?
Eugene: Aside from his increasingly un-LG activities, he is a powerful wizard who has put his own needs above everyone else's in the past.

[Skyshot]

Don't forget Kubota and company were still in play at the time that comic was posted.

[Rutigris]

My guess is that there are 42 sides. That is, after all, the answer to everything, is it not..?

I mean, Haley could be counted as being on her own side. As could V for the latest batch of strips! :smalltongue:

[Morgan Wick]

We now know a maximum of eight or nine sides (seven or eight if you don't want to get speculative), depending on how one counts the IFCC because of their foreshadowing with Sabine. OOTS, Xykon, Redcloak, Linear Guild, and maybe IFCC (depending on whether they're separate) are known. A conservative speculative estimate would involve the Sapphire Guard and the elves, plus any surviving Scribblers and may-y-y-y-ybe the Resistance.

[Zevox]

Regarding The Dark One:

According to Start of Darkness, he'll only unmake Creation if the other dieties don't agree to alter the world so that everyone gets equal treatment; the dieties basically created things like Goblins and Lizardfolk so that low-level Clerics, who were there to serve the gods in order to reduce the chances of the problems which created the Snarl from occuring again, and the Dark One became a god after his attempts to raise an army before negotiating with humans to get land which could be lived on failed (NPC races were giving rubbish land so that they had to raid PC race settlements for food).
No.
The Dark One will not unmake creation if the other deities don't back down to his blackmail - he'll unmake them. If things ever get to the phase where they're negotiating at all, it means he has control of the gate, and has no need to release the Snarl on the Prime.

The situation where the Snarl unmakes creation again occurs only if something goes wrong when Redcloak and Xykon try to complete the ritual to give the Dark One control of the gate and the Snarl gets released in the process. Nobody intends to release the Snarl deliberately; Redcloak and the Dark One just know that all is not necessarily lost for their cause if it does happen.
Zevox

[DnDgeek13]

Redcloak: How many sides are there in this conflict anyway? Three? Four? More?

Demon Roach: I count at least nine.

Other Demon Roach: Shh! They don't know about some of those yet!




i forgot. which comic is this?

[Boogastreehouse]

i forgot. which comic is this?

#548, Panel 3.

[The Extinguisher]

Don't forget Kubota and company were still in play at the time that comic was posted.

They were never a "side"
Kubota never even knew about the gate.

So far, I'd suggest the sides as:

Team Good (Order of the Stick, Sapphire Guard, Order of the Scribble)
Team Evil (Xykon, Tsukiko, MitD)
The Dark One (Redcloak, the other Goblins)
The IFCC (The Fiends, the Linear Guild)

Whether the elves are added on remains to be seen.

[Boogastreehouse]

I am now thinking that the denizens of the mysterious World Within are likely to have their own views on the Snarl, and will eventually be revealed to be a "side" in the conflict.

The breakdown (as I see it now) is:

Xykon --the lich who wants to take control of the gates, mainly just because he can. His pawns include Tsukiko, Redcloak (who actually belongs to another side), and the MiD (who will probably turn on him)

The Gods --beings who want to keep the Snarl imprisoned, for their own protection and incidentally for the benefit of the world. They have a lot in common with the Mortals United to Defeat Xykon, but would probably abandon the mortals to save themselves. The gods who were/are secretly aiding The Dark One (Loki, I think? And Rat? And Tiamat?) might be on that side, or belong to a faction of their own.

The Snarl --a creature that wants to unmake the world. No known pawns.

The Mortals United (more or less) to Defeat Xykon --This faction is different from the gods, because it has been implied that the gods might just wait and see what happens—they'll hide somewhere safe again if the world gets another wipe and just re-boot it again later. The mortals on the other hand intend to fight to survive. This faction so far includes The Sapphire Guard, their allies the Elves, probably the Dwarves and, of course, the Order of the Stick.

Inhabitants of the Inner World --Any people living on the world that exists within the Snarl probably have their own priorities, though what they are remains unknown at this time. Perhaps they want to see the Snarl destroyed, or maybe that's the last thing that they want. Maybe the Greek Pantheon is in there, too. Their agenda, if they have one (if they even know about the outside world... and assuming there are even people on this planet!) remains uncertain.

The IFCC --An Infernal Alliance that now knows of the gates that imprison the Snarl. Their stated goal is to storm the Gates of Heaven in a properly Milton-like fashion, probably using the Snarl as a weapon. Assuming they're telling the truth. Their pawns include The Linear Guild, Quaar, and now Vaarsuvius

The Dark One --that Redcloak worships. I have yet to read any of the material not online (Start of Darkness, etc...) but I have gleaned from other people's comments that
the Dark One is prepared to use the Snarl unmake civilization. Now that the Dark One is a god, he expects to be able to survive the destruction, like the gods managed to do last time, and then be a part of the process of remaking the next world.

[Gandariel]

maybe so we could say

1) Xykon (now almost alone... Redcloak+hobgoblins is separated from him, the moster is probably going to turn on hin)
2)Gods
3) Snarl
4) Mortals united (Order, sapphire guard, resistance, ecc.)
5) IFCC (+ linear guild)
6) Redcloak + hobgoblins
7) Monster In The Darkness (who actually hasn't a goal.... but no matter xD)
8) People from the other planet
9)...
actually i don't know
SO
i'm going to say the nineth team is....
...
...
...
...
Banjuhlu! the resurrection of Banjo!

[Zolkabro]

We also need to consider in strip 668 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html):
Lee: Don't be silly. Why would we want the lich to win?
Quarr: ...Because we're Evil?
Nerd: And that makes us all one happy family? Screw that!

This shows that Evil people are more split up than good, especially IFCC. I think that not only are they a side of their own, but they also have goals we don't know about, that are unrelated to the gates.

[Spiky]

They were never a "side"
Kubota never even knew about the gate.

So far, I'd suggest the sides as:


General point: That doesn't matter. He can influence the main plot line without knowing its details, making him a "side" in the conflict. Even weather could be a "side", although not likely in OOTS.

[Morgan Wick]

The only definite "sides" are OOTS, Xykon, Redcloak/Dark One, and Linear Guild/IFCC (the Snarl would count as definite if you count him as a side). There are some speculated splits on the Good side, and potential rebellion on the side of Evil, but at the moment Team Good is fairly unified, Redcloak is still faithful to the Plan, MITD hasn't turned on Team Evil yet, and Nale is still clueless. If there's tension, it's leftover tension between OOTS and the Sapphire Guard regarding the foot they got off on. Admittedly, if Xykon and Redcloak are on different sides it's hard to justify the same not being the case for the OOTS and Guard...

[waterpenguin43]

Their pawns include The Linear Guild, Quaar, and now Vaarsuvius


V regrets his/her actions, look at comic #671 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html)

[General Valter]

I'd say there's only three major sides, really. The "Good" guys (being the OotS, Azurites, and other allied forces), the "Evil" guys (being the IFCC and possible the rest of the underworld. I get the feeling that the IFCC guys aren't as new an organization as they told V the were. They're at least in league with Tiamat, which must indicate some kind of power), and the ugly (being Xykon and his crew).

Redcloak would indicate a possible fourth, but it's unlikely that he would strike out on his own. If he were to switch sides, he would probably join one of the existing coalitions, rather than just go on his own.

[Shale]

A "possible" fourth? He outright says he and Xykon are on different sides in the strip this question comes from.

[The Extinguisher]

A "possible" fourth? He outright says he and Xykon are on different sides in the strip this question comes from.

What Redcloak says and what the truth is are not necessarily the same thing. Xykon has Redcloak wrapped around his finger, and I can honestly think of nothing right now that would cause Redcloak to abandon the ship, given everything that has happened already.

[Shale]

Not even the imminent completion of the Dark One's plan? Because once they actually manage to get control of a Gate, that's what'll happen.

[JT Jag]

Of course there are nine sides.

There are nine alignments, after all. Those guys don't get along.

[Boogastreehouse]

V regrets his/her actions, look at comic #671 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html)

Regardless of how bad he/she feels now, the fact remains that V will belong to the IFCC for a period of time and there's nothing she/he can do about it. What fiendish purpose they can use him/her for during that period is anyone's guess.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham: This is thread necromancy and there is another current thread on this issue.