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View Full Version : 3.5 Any advice for (effectively) using a mount? Preferably an exotic one?



Kobold_Love
2009-07-24, 11:48 PM
Sup.

I occasionally buy mounts for my manifesters, but they have never really seen any limelight or real use. I am especially interested in mount ideas like giant spiders and such.

Can those experienced with such things please share their advice on this?

And how exactly would one go about getting very "special" mounts?

Mr.Moron
2009-07-24, 11:50 PM
MM2, has the "Warbeast" template. Effectively turning any Vermin or animal into a mount.

I personally believe it results in powerful creatures being way under priced. However it makes a nice starting point to work with your DM on buying something. Or if your DM is the "Do whatever type" enjoy your cheap beasties.

As for an actual mount. Some kind badass of wasp would be cool. Maybe a bat.

quick_comment
2009-07-24, 11:53 PM
Get two paladins to each take the celestial template and declare each other to be their mounts!

Also, intelligent item paladin with a aasimar as his mount.

BobVosh
2009-07-25, 12:22 AM
Get two paladins to each take the celestial template and declare each other to be their mounts!

So marry each other? >.>

Also some magical beasts have rules for being cohorts, which can be fun use of leadership. My friend has a giant eagle cohort.

BenTheJester
2009-07-25, 12:24 AM
Also, intelligent item paladin with a aasimar as his mount.

The opposite is much worse.

An Aasimar using a greatsword as a mount? Hummm I'll pass :smalltongue:

Mongoose87
2009-07-25, 01:23 AM
Get two paladins to each take the celestial template and declare each other to be their mounts!



Nice, free stats and HD!

Doc Roc
2009-07-25, 01:29 AM
Nightmares are my mount of choice, followed closely by Giant Eagles.


Because when the eagles come, I want to be part of the deus ex machina. :)

RTGoodman
2009-07-25, 01:47 AM
There's a feat on the WotC website called Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) that gives you an animal companion that's as good as or maybe better than a Ranger's animal companion. That's a way to get a pretty decent one without having to FOCUS on making your mount good. (And trust me, there are a lot of builds for that - there're at least two Supermount or Ubermount builds that basically end up with you playing an awesome sandwyrm or whatever with a Ranger/Paladin buddy that hangs around.)

Coidzor
2009-07-25, 04:44 AM
So marry each other? >.>.

What's the AC on the beast with two backs again?:belkar:

kpenguin
2009-07-25, 06:14 AM
Wild Cohort or Leadership are the way to go here.

AstralFire
2009-07-25, 10:42 AM
Glidewing from Eberron Campaign Setting. Large, can carry two halflings (and there's no indicated reason it can't carry one medium person) and is only 800 GP. I usually get mine feathered like a real dinosaur would be, so it's like riding a giant bird. :D

hamishspence
2009-07-25, 12:23 PM
glidewings are modelled on the largest pterosaurs (Pteranodon and the giant adzarchids like Quetzalcoatlus) not therapods.

So, it should be hairy (downy?) rather than feathered.

VirOath
2009-07-26, 12:00 AM
Play a Kobold and take a Riding Lizard!

AslanCross
2009-07-26, 12:04 AM
When running mounted characters, I typically abuse the "drop down for cover" mode of the Ride skill. +4 to AC and +2 to Reflex saves is pretty awesome, and it's a non-action to use.

Wizards put up a very detailed guide on how to use mounts:
Part 1 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050125a)
Part 2 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050201a)
Part 3 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050208a)
Part 4 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050215a)
Part 5 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050222a)

Darrin
2009-07-26, 07:27 PM
The restriction on only getting one attack when the mount moves more than 5' is annoying... are there any ways around this? For example, can you use the Pounce ability on a charge to get around the one-attack restriction? What about snap kick?

Also, what about a Warlock on a mount using Eldritch Glaive? This isn't the same as a full-round attack, which wouldn't be allowed if the mount has moved more than 5'. Eldritch Glaive is an SLA, which is normally something that you can do while mounted, but it just happens to have a full-round casting time and just happens to give you extra attacks that are calculated as if they were iterative attacks but are not exactly the same as iterative attacks.

AstralFire
2009-07-26, 07:34 PM
The restriction on only getting one attack when the mount moves more than 5' is annoying... are there any ways around this? For example, can you use the Pounce ability on a charge to get around the one-attack restriction? What about snap kick?

Halfling Outrider class.

My most fun (if nowhere near most overpowered) Gestalt character ever was an Unarmed Swordsage/Master of Nine//Fighter/Kobold Outrider Dragonwrought (Song) Kobold. I only played him for like 2 sessions before the game fell apart, but he was a blast to roleplay, and he had (one of the like... three) Falling Star discipline, which made him a crazy mounted archer with Boooooow Magic!

My favorite trick was using that one Setting Sun maneuver that lets you switch places with the target, since this homebrew discipline let you expend two maneuvers to use any non-bow maneuver with your ranged attacks. I explained it as a grappling hook arrow. Shoot from like 60 feet up, yoink him up, and then my mount drops him.

Thrawn183
2009-07-26, 11:17 PM
Get two paladins to each take the celestial template and declare each other to be their mounts!

Also, intelligent item paladin with a aasimar as his mount.

Beast with two backs... what was the AC on that again?

ericgrau
2009-07-27, 01:28 AM
Special mounts like griffons typically have rules within their monster description. A young one is 7,000gp on the open market, then training is 1,500gp. Then it just needs to grow up.

As for using a mount, just take a look at the combat rules and ride skill. Typically you can fight normally without any check. Problems that arise in combat tend to be a DC 5 check. You get a +1 bonus to your attack rolls for being on higher ground than your opponent. The main advantage to riding is speed, of course. But there are other tricks you can pull in the rules I mentioned. You can full attack with a bow while moving IIRC. Whenever you get attacked you can use the mount for cover (+4 AC) as an immediate action. Unless the attack is an AoO that happened while you were attacking. Just check out the rules. Typically it's all positive and not much negative.

Hunter Noventa
2009-07-27, 05:54 AM
The obvious solution is to have a cohort who can polymorph himself into an armored mount. And a very large sword. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVUCfgRyWjw) Prefereably one that cleaves evil.

Kobold_Love
2009-07-27, 03:06 PM
Thank you for the advice so far folks. Much appreciated!


Just a few more questions please:
1. Can a mount be used for the role of improving the psion's/manifester's survivability, and possibly give them a chance of escaping if the rest of the party is falling around him, already dead, or just doomed?
2. How can I get the skills Ride and Handle Animal as a psion?
3. KOBOLD RIDDING LIZARDS?! Someone please point me in the right direction! :smallbiggrin:

Darrin
2009-07-27, 11:13 PM
1. Can a mount be used for the role of improving the psion's/manifester's survivability, and possibly give them a chance of escaping if the rest of the party is falling around him, already dead, or just doomed?


If you get a mount with, uh, plane shift... then yeah, sure.

Could you be more specific about what you mean by survivability, or what kind of TPK you're trying to avoid? In general, a mount with usual movement modes (flight, burrow) has more of a chance to get you out of a fight.



2. How can I get the skills Ride and Handle Animal as a psion?


Nomad gets Ride. Handle Animal can be picked up via Skill Knowledge (UA) or Flexible Mind (Dragon #326). Otherwise, consider a dip into Factotum or Ranger.



3. KOBOLD RIDDING LIZARDS?! Someone please point me in the right direction! :smallbiggrin:

The gold standard for medium-sized lizards would be a Fleshraker dinosaur (MM3). In core-only... a monitor lizard might work, although you'd want to add some templates to make it more interesting.

Asbestos
2009-07-27, 11:32 PM
The obvious solution is to have a cohort who can polymorph himself into an armored mount. And a very large sword. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVUCfgRyWjw) Prefereably one that cleaves evil.

See, I thought I'd be seeing this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaJKmPx7XTY) Or maybe this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cztVRf-Mro&feature=fvw) one, just because the cat is so whiny (seems very cohorty)

Baron Malkar
2009-07-27, 11:43 PM
Beast with two backs... what was the AC on that again?

Check the grappling rules:smallbiggrin:

Kallisti
2009-07-27, 11:50 PM
Maybe if you can get a unicorn? They get dimension door.

Or just something that flies. That improves survivablilty and is awesome.

My recommendation is Nightmare. It gets Plane Shift and an Astral Travel ability, and it flies, and it's a badass demon horse.

Kobold_Love
2009-07-30, 07:45 PM
Nomad gets Ride. Handle Animal can be picked up via Skill Knowledge (UA) or Flexible Mind (Dragon #326). Otherwise, consider a dip into Factotum or Ranger.

Any ways of getting them both without losing a level? Plus I dislike level dipping.


Also, anyone know more about that riding lizard mentioned earlier?

Darrin
2009-07-31, 11:24 PM
Any ways of getting them both without losing a level? Plus I dislike level dipping.


Skill Knowledge is not part of an alternate skill system. It's in a sidebar on page 81 of Unearthed Arcana, a general feat that can be used with the existing rules.

"Benefit: Choose any two skills from one of your current classes' skill lists. You now know these skills as class skills.

Special: Instead of choosing two class skills, you may choose one cross-class skill (whether you already know it or not) and learn it, treating it as a class skill from that point forward."

The "special" option would work for Listen.



Also, anyone know more about that riding lizard mentioned earlier?

Riding Lizards appear in a couple places: Arms & Equipment Guide p. 82. Large magical beast, 2HD, gets a spiderclimb ability at will rather than a climb speed.

Another version appears in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook p. 309. Large animal, 4HD, 40' land speed and 40' climb speed.

A Draconic Riding Lizard appears on page 140 of Races of the Dragon as part of a sample NPC, but I can't tell which version they used... it doesn't quite match A&EG or FRCS.

Drow of the Underdark has three large-size lizards: Footpad Lizard (5HD, speed 30' climb 30'), Quicksilver Lizard (4HD, speed 40' climb 40', run, sprint), Subterannean Lizard (6HD, speed 40' climb 40', regeneration, improved grab, tongue).

Ravens_cry
2009-07-31, 11:38 PM
Is there any medium mounts ridable by medium creatures? Obvious innuendos aside, one of the things that make mounts less useful in many adventures is that they can have a hard time navigating dungeons. If a medium creature encounters a small door or hole, they can use squeezing rules to get through. A large mount would have to be left outside. Also, I have been told by players, who have been playing longer then I have been born, that many mounts outright refuse to enter dungeons, further hindering their usefulness. Any ways around that?

AstralFire
2009-07-31, 11:41 PM
Is there any medium mounts ridable by medium creatures? Obvious innuendos aside, one of the things that make mounts less useful in many adventures is that they can have a hard time navigating dungeons.

Collar of Reduce Animal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reduceAnimal.htm)?



Also, I have been told by players, who have been playing longer then I have been born, that many mounts outright refuse to enter dungeons, further hindering their usefulness. Any ways around that?

Stop riding Yoshi.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3127/2426249448_ab7e30b768.jpg

Get a real mount, like a bear, or a hippogryph, or a rocket-powered Elekk with missile launchers.

Kobold_Love
2009-07-31, 11:53 PM
Skill Knowledge is not part of an alternate skill system. It's in a sidebar on page 81 of Unearthed Arcana, a general feat that can be used with the existing rules.

"Benefit: Choose any two skills from one of your current classes' skill lists. You now know these skills as class skills.

Special: Instead of choosing two class skills, you may choose one cross-class skill (whether you already know it or not) and learn it, treating it as a class skill from that point forward."

The "special" option would work for Listen.



Riding Lizards appear in a couple places: Arms & Equipment Guide p. 82. Large magical beast, 2HD, gets a spiderclimb ability at will rather than a climb speed.

Another version appears in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook p. 309. Large animal, 4HD, 40' land speed and 40' climb speed.

A Draconic Riding Lizard appears on page 140 of Races of the Dragon as part of a sample NPC, but I can't tell which version they used... it doesn't quite match A&EG or FRCS.

Drow of the Underdark has three large-size lizards: Footpad Lizard (5HD, speed 30' climb 30'), Quicksilver Lizard (4HD, speed 40' climb 40', run, sprint), Subterannean Lizard (6HD, speed 40' climb 40', regeneration, improved grab, tongue).


Thanks.

By the way, do you know what page the Drow of the Underdark ones are on?

I looked through the thing like mad for the information on their spider mounts (for a PC concept which deals with an elf disguising himself as a drow and infiltrating the Underdark), but it is driving me mad that I could not find it.

Tempest Fennac
2009-08-01, 12:44 AM
Kobold, could you ask the DM to let you have Ride and Handle Animal in place of 2 skills you don't care about? I often let players do this as long as it makes sense (you could have your backstory involving being raised by parents who were both farmers or messagers or something else which involved animals).

Darrin
2009-08-01, 09:38 AM
Is there any medium mounts ridable by medium creatures? Obvious innuendos aside, one of the things that make mounts less useful in many adventures is that they can have a hard time navigating dungeons. If a medium creature encounters a small door or hole, they can use squeezing rules to get through. A large mount would have to be left outside.


Not exactly, but there are some work-arounds. In order to use the ride skill, your mount must be one size larger than you. If you're worried about large animals not fitting through doors/corridors:

1) Shrink Collar (A&EG p. 80, 10000 GP). Reduces any creature to size small (and curiously, may increase any tiny or smaller-sized creature up to small). You can take it off and put it on whenever you need to, but unwilling creatures get a Will save and animals with an Int of 2 or lower may panic unless the size-change is explained to them beforehand (via wild empathy or speak with animals).

2) Armband of Reduction (A&EG p. 129, 2000 GP). No longer 3.5 compliant, since the reduce spell has become reduce person. Thus, it wouldn't work on animals/beasts/etc.

3) Ring of Reduction (Lords of Madness p. 130, 20000 GP). Reduces one size category on command, and works on any creature, regardless of type. However, the creature needs to be able to speak or somehow activate the item.

4) Figurine of Wondrous Power: Gold Beetle or Ivory Camel (Sandstorm p. 133, 11500 GP or 8500 GP). These items summon intelligent creatures, which can serve as mounts without Handle Animal, Ride, or Diplomacy checks to control them. The biggest difference with other figurines is they do not have a limit on uses per week, and their "duration need not be continuous", so you can switch them back and forth to creature/statuette whenever you like. I'm working on a very big post about using magic items such as these as mounts, but it's not quite ready to post yet. When it's ready, I'll mention it in this thread.

5) Talisman of the Disk (MIC p. 188, 500 GP). If your mount can activate magic items, you can give them this Talisman to create Tenser's Floating Disc whenever you like. Stand on the disk, and you can move along with your mount as sort of a floating "sidecar". Since you're not actually riding your mount, you can also get in a full-round attack even if your mount moves more than 5'.



Also, I have been told by players, who have been playing longer then I have been born, that many mounts outright refuse to enter dungeons, further hindering their usefulness. Any ways around that?

If they are properly trained with the Handle Animal skill, then they can "come", "heel", "attack", "stay", and so forth. Most domestic mounts and pack animals will attempt to withdraw or flee if combat breaks out. If you're riding on one, you can control an unruly mount by making a DC 20 Ride check. If you're not riding it, you can use Handle Animal to tell it to perform a trick it knows ("come", "attack", etc.) as a move action, or "push" it to perform a trick it doesn't know as a full-round action.

Note: this only applies to animals with an Int of 1 or 2. If a creature has an intelligence of 3 or higher, it's smart enough to understand simple commands. If you can communicate with it (such as speak with animals, tongues, etc.), then you can make a Diplomacy check to get it to do what you want. If you're a ranger/druid, you could also use Wild Empathy.

Darrin
2009-08-01, 09:57 AM
By the way, do you know what page the Drow of the Underdark ones are on?

I looked through the thing like mad for the information on their spider mounts (for a PC concept which deals with an elf disguising himself as a drow and infiltrating the Underdark), but it is driving me mad that I could not find it.

Drow of the Underdark p. 133-136.

Note: there's another Underdark book that is specific to Forgotten Realms (3.0 rules). No riding lizards, but the Stone Flyer (fly through SOLID ROCK, OMG!) is awesomeness on toast.

To train a spider as a mount, you need the Vermin Trainer feat (DotU p. 53), which has "Drow" as a prerequisite. The book says that Spitting Spiders and Widowmakers are easily trainable, but by RAW anything without an Int score is untrainable. The easiest way around that is just hire a drow animal trainer to train it. Adding a template to a vermin creature can be used to raise its Int. For example, a Fiendish, Celestial, or Pseudonatural spider gains an Int of 3. Once a creature has an Int of 3 or more, you no longer need to use Handle Animal or Ride checks to control it in combat. If you can communicate with it or Wild Empathy, you can use Diplomacy to get it to do what you want.

Melamoto
2009-08-01, 10:01 AM
Nightmares are my mount of choice, followed closely by Giant Eagles.


Because when the eagles come, I want to be part of the deus ex machina. :)

How does one go about obtaining a Nightmare as a steed? Magic? Evil Paladin Variant? Feat/PrC? Bargaining?

Darrin
2009-08-01, 11:52 AM
How does one go about obtaining a Nightmare as a steed? Magic? Evil Paladin Variant? Feat/PrC? Bargaining?

1) Lesser Planar Binding.
2) Leadership feat (counts as a 10th level cohort, so rider needs to be 12th level).
3) Figurine of Wondrous Power: Ivory Goats (Goat of Travail = same stats as Nightmare).
4) Dominate Monster.
5) Combine 1) and 4) by calling a Formian Taskmaster, have him Dominate the Nightmare and order it to serve you as a mount.
6) Pazuzu! Pazuzu! Paz-- *urgk!*

Ravens_cry
2009-08-01, 12:22 PM
*good advice*

Thanks very much!

Darrin
2009-08-05, 07:05 PM
My article for using magic items as mounts (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120298).

My recommendation for a kobold would be to take a look at the Clockwork Pony (MMIV p. 32, 2150 GP) and rename it the Clockwork Lizard. Simply just an amazing bargain, 2K for a 6HD construct, and the upgrades are all great bargains, too. You can upgrade it for barding, DR 5/magic or adamantine, Improved Battle Readiness (read the description, giving it commands is a little different than other mounts), Improved Trip, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Overrun, and Trample.