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AstralFire
2009-07-25, 02:44 PM
Races
When using these rules, do not use standard rules for humans gaining a bonus feat and an extra skill, and do not mix these rules with one another.

Air Nomads
Air Nomads as a whole are inquisitive, flighty, and eclectic; not every air nomad shares all of these traits, but most have at least one.
Athletic Lifestyle: An Air Nomad may choose to reroll any Athletics skill check. They must take the second result, even if it worse than the first.
Adaptive Learning: As nomads, the people of the wind often find themselves having to take on new skills and habits without warning. Once per day, an Air Nomad may practice for ten minutes and spend a spirit point to gain Skill Training for any skill, regardless of if it is on her class list or not. She may instead choose to get Skill Focus for a skill she is already trained in. This benefit lasts for the rest of the day.
Spice of Life: At first level, an Air Nomad may select one of her skills from the entire skill list, regardless of whether or not it is on her class' skill list.

Earthen
Earthen, the people within the Earth Kingdom, as a whole tend to be hardy, patient, and stubborn; not every earthen shares all of these traits, but most have at least one.
Conditional Bonus Feat: Earthen with Endurance as a trained skill automatically gain Improved Damage Threshold as a feat.
Earth's Embrace: An Earthen is exceptionally stable, and thus gains a +5 bonus on opposed rolls to avoid falling prone. If no roll is normally allowed to oppose the knockdown effect, the Earthen is allowed to make an opposed unarmed attack roll with a +5 bonus against the originating attack, attempting to block the effect or stabilize themselves. On a success, the effect does not knock the Earthen prone.
Stubborn: Earthen gain a +2 racial bonus to their Will Defense.

Fire Nation
People of the Fire Nation - 'Reds', as they are often called in slang by others - are intelligent, creative, and ambitious most often. Not every member of the Fire Nation shares all of these traits, but most have at least one.
Military Education: Reds always add Armor Proficiency, Power Attack, Rapid Shot, Rapid Strike, Rhetorical Training, Sniper, Surgical Expertise, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Weapon Proficiency and Whirlwind Attack to their class bonus feat lists.
Rise Like the Sun: Whenever a Red improves his place along the condition track or regains health, he gains a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls to his next successful attack. (Meaning that this bonus does not fade until after he makes a successful strike.)

Foggy Swamp Tribe
Swamp Tribesmen bear mixed traits of Earth and Water, combining Water's typical complacency with Earth's direct approach, resulting in a civilization that is slow to react but takes simple and direct measures when necessary. They favor water traits, however.
Distilled Motion: When moving in a straight line, Swamp Tribesmen ignore penalties for traversing difficult terrain, or when charging, Swamp Tribesmen take no penalty to armor class.
Focused Defense: A Swamp Tribesman with the Dodge feat gains a +3 bonus to his Fortitude Defense against the subject of his Dodge feat.
Marsh Living: Whenever subjected to attack from a poison or disease, a Swamp Tribesman may substitute an Endurance check for their Fortitude Defense if their Endurance check is higher.

Polar Water Tribe
Polar Tribesmen tend to be reactive, nurturing, and slow (but not rigid) to change. Not every member of the Polar Tribes bears these traits, but most have at least one.
Arctic Endurance: Polar Tribesmen gain a +5 bonus to Fortitude Defense against extreme cold.
Defender: When fighting adjacent to an ally, Polar Tribesmen gain a +2 dodge bonus to Reflex Defense and grant a +2 dodge bonus to their ally. They cannot gain this bonus additional times for having more than one ally present, nor can multiple Polar Tribesmen grant one ally multiple instances of this bonus.
Flowing Currents: A Polar Tribesman does not grant a bonus to attack rolls to opponents who flank him. When he is flanked, he gains a +2 bonus to his attack rolls, carrying momentum from one opponent right into the next.

Sandpeople
Sandpeople bear mixed traits of Air and Earth, combining Air's elusiveness with Earth's stubbornness, creating a civilization that is mistrustful of outsiders and with a tendency to avoid conflict, but strongly loyal and warm to those who have been accepted. They favor Earth traits, persevering through a difficult situation rather than seeking to change it, once backed into a corner.
Conditional Bonus Feat: Sandpeople which have Deception or Stealth as a trained skill automatically gain the other skill as a trained skill.
Desert Endurance: Sandpeople gain a +2 bonus to Fortitude Defense against extreme heat and cold.
Sand Cloak: Sandpeople master stealth and evasion from a young age; when benefiting from partial concealment, they may instead treat it as total concealment if they give up their standard action on their turn.

Sun Warriors
The original civilization from which the Fire Nation arose. It bears the same traits as those of the Fire Nation, though they are less likely to be conflict-driven individuals. Some Fire Nation individuals may bear these abilities moreso than their native ones.
Burning Spirit: A Sun Warrior may reroll any Attunement check. She must take the second result, even if it is worse than the previous. Sun Warriors may use the Sense Lifeforce function of Attunement untrained.
Pyre: A Sun Warrior may use a Second Wind as a reaction, rather than as a swift action.
Rise Like the Sun: Whenever a Sun Warrior improves her place along the condition track or regains health, she gains a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls to her next successful attack. (Meaning that this bonus does not fade until after he makes a successful strike.)

Classes
Heroic Classes
All of the heroic classes return, except Jedi; there is no Bender core class. Benders are drawn from any of the four classes.

When multiclassing into a second class, you may forfeit the usual feat and instead gain Skill Training in one of that class' skills.

The Noble
Nobles begin play with Weapon Proficiency (Simple) and Skill Focus in one skill of their choice, or with the Martial Arts I and II feats and Skill Focus in one skill of their choice. This replaces their usual starting feat list.

INFLUENCE TALENT TREE
This talent tree's former talents are no longer available; those abilities have been folded into Rhetorical Techniques. The following new talents are available for selection by Nobles and Crime Lords:

Beguiling Presence: You do not take a penalty for attempting deceptions in the course of combat.
Requires training in Deception and Persuasion.

Focused Presence: Your Imperious Presence technique can instead target a single character, penalizing them with a -5 to attack rolls to strike you. You may not have the standard Imperious Presence benefit active, even from another use of the technique, at the same time.
Requires Imperious Presence.

Rhetorical Stamina: Whenever you roll a natural 20 with a rhetorical technique, you may return one technique of your choice to your rhetoric suite for the encounter, including the technique you just used. Whenever you spend three swift actions in the same round or across consecutive rounds to center yourself, you may also return one rhetorical technique to your rhetoric suite.

Weakened Heart: You gain a +2 bonus to all Rhetorical Techniques against an opponent who has been reduced to one-half or less of its hit points. This is a fear effect.

NEW LINEAGE TALENT
The following new talent belongs to the Lineage talent tree, which is available to members of the noble class. Any character which can normally gain access to talents from the Lineage talent tree may also select this talent.

Extracurriculars: Thanks to your well-rounded education, all skills are considered class skills for you. You still must obtain training in these skills as usual.


The Scoundrel
Scoundrels begin play with Weapon Proficiency (Simple) or with the Martial Arts I and II feats. Regardless of choice, they also gain Quick Draw and Point-Blank Shot as starting feats. This replaces their usual starting feat list.

NEW FORTUNE TALENTS
The following new talents belong to the Fortune talent tree, which is available to members of the Scoundrel class. Any other character which could normally choose a talent from that list may select from these talents as well.

Between Genius and Stupidity: As a swift action, you may add your intelligence bonus to one defense of your choice this round. If you are successfully attacked on that defense anyway, you fall prone.
Requires Fool's Luck.

Calculated Risk: Once per round, you may roll an Intelligence check of DC 20 as a move action. If you succeed, you gain a temporary Force Point that must be used before the end of the encounter.
Requires Fortune's Favor.

Close One: Once per encounter, you can force an opponent to reroll an attack or skill check of your choice, as a reaction. They must take the worse result.
Requires Knack, Lucky Shot.

Fortune Teller: You can spend ten minutes with a deck of cards or a handful of dice to foretell the future. Make a Wisdom check. If you make DC 15, it can foresee the whether the outcomes within the next hour of a single action will be positive or negative. DC 25 increases the distance to one day, and DC 35 increases the distance to one week. You may only perform this ability after legitimately winning a game of chance, and no more than once a day.
Requires Gambler.

Knack: You may use this ability once an encounter. You cannot select this talent multiple times. This talent is otherwise unchanged.

Lucky Shot: You may use this ability once an encounter. You cannot select this talent multiple times. This talent is otherwise unchanged.

White Lie: When you use False Bravado, you may opt to target a single ally and no other creatures. This ally does not suffer from the negative effects of the talent as long as you two are able to communicate; however, if you two are removed from one another for any reason before the encounter ends, the morale bonus ends.
Requires False Bravado.

NEW MISFORTUNE TALENTS
The following new talents belong to the Misfortune talent tree, which is available to members of the Scoundrel class. Any other character which could normally choose a talent from that list may select from these talents as well.

Armed to the Teeth: When carrying two or more weapons, the first time in an encounter you attack with your second weapon, the opponent is considered flat-footed against your attack.

Bandit: As a reaction upon being caught in the act when attempting a Pick Pocket, you can immediately attempt an unarmed attack or attack with an already drawn quick weapon. (If you have the Rain of Blades feat, you may draw your quick weapon as part of this reaction.) Compare the result to the target's Will Defense; if successful, you catch the target by surprise and are able to snatch the item anyway. The victim loses their move action on their next turn.
Requires training in Stealth.

String 'em Along: You can perform Puppet Master as a standard action. Additionally, your successful Moment of Weakness techniques can enrage a target at your option, forcing them to make at least one attack attempt against you the following round. If they are unable to attack you, they will attempt to move into position or otherwise adjust the situation so that they can. However, their anger gives them clarity; they gain an insight bonus on attacks against you equal to your Charisma modifier until the end of the encounter.


The Scout
Scouts begin play with Weapon Proficiencies (Simple, Advanced) or with the Martial Arts I-III feats. Regardless of choice, they also gain Shake It Off as a starting feat. This replaces their usual starting feat list.

Add Acrobatics to the Scout's class skill list.

The Soldier
Soldiers begin play with Weapon Proficiencies (Simple, Advanced) and Armor Proficiency (Light), or with the Martial Arts I-III feats and the Dodge feat. This replaces their usual starting feat list.

Add Survival to the Soldier's class skill list.

Amend the following talents to the new text:
Armored Defense: Armor (except shields) that you wear grant an armor bonus to defense rather than a dodge bonus to defense; armor bonuses to defense are not lost when you are flat-footed.

Improved Armored Defense: Your maximum dexterity bonus to Reflex Defense is not limited by the type of armor you are wearing.
Requires Second Skin, Armored Defense.

Prestige Classes
The following talents and changes are for the Prestige Classes available in the SWSE Core Rulebook. The Force Adept, Force Disciple, Jedi Knight, Jedi Master, Sith Apprentice, and Sith Lord classes are not available for selection in Avatar: Saga Edition games.

The Avatar (New Class)
The Avatar is the spirit of the planet reincarnated in human form and master of all four elemental bending disciplines (Airbending, Waterbending, Earthbending and Firebending), whose task it is to keep balance among the four nations of the world. The Avatar is also a link between the human world and the Spirit World. Throughout the ages, countless incarnations of the Avatar have served to maintain harmony in the world.

At any time there is only a single Avatar, who is the spirit of the world incarnated into human form. When the Avatar dies, the Avatar Spirit is reincarnated into a newborn, who becomes the next Avatar.

This class represents an Avatar who has already gained competency with their initial element and has begun to move on to the others. It is intended for balanced play with other classes of the same level; in terms of the Game World, Avatars gain their additional power from having higher base stats and gaining levels more quickly. The avatar state itself is a racially-granted ability, and thus not modeled here.

EXAMPLES OF AVATARS... IN AVATAR: Avatar Aang, Avatar Kuruk, Avatar Kyoshowmanyavatarscouldanavatarchuckifanavatarcoul dchuckavatars, Avatar Roku, Avatar Yangchen

REQUIREMENTS: To qualify to become an Avatar, a character must fulfill the following criteria.
Feats: Spiritual, Open-Minded
Heroic Level: 5+
Special: Must have GM approval to take this class.

GAME RULE INFORMATION: Avatar have the following game statistics.
Hit Points: At each level, Avatar gain 1d8 hit points + their Constitution modifier.
Spirit Points: Avatar gain a number of Spirit Points equal to 7 + one-half their character level, rounded down, every time they gain a new level in this class.

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Class Features
1st | +0 | Defense bonuses, talent, Open-Minded
2nd | +1 | Avatar secret, Synergy
3rd | +2 | Talent
4th | +3 | Avatar secret
5th | +3 | Talent
6th | +4 | Avatar secret
7th | +5 | Talent
8th | +6 | Avatar secret
9th | +6 | Talent
10th | +7 | Avatar secret
11th | +8 | Talent
12th | +9 | Avatar secret
13th | +9 | Talent
14th | +10 | Avatar secret
15th | +11 | Talent[/table]

CLASS FEATURES: The following are features of the Avatar prestige class.
Defense Bonuses: At 1st level, you gain a +3 class bonus to your Fortitude, Reflex, and Will Defense.
Talents: At every odd-numbered level (1st, 3rd, 5th, and so on), you select a talent. The talent may be selected from any Bending talent you qualify for.
Open-Minded: At 1st level, the you gain the Open-Minded feat as a free bonus feat. If you already possessed the feat prior to this level, you may select any single feat of your choice instead. You must meet the feat's prerequisites as normal.
Synergy: Beginning at 2nd level, when making an attack you can simultaneously combine the traits of any two elements which you are capable of bending. The variants of Earth and Water count as different elements for this purpose.

At every even-numbered level (2nd, 4th, 6th, and so on), you must select a talent from the Avatar Secret tree.
AVATAR SECRET TREE
You must realize all the possibilities and philosophies of the world.
The Avatar Element cycle is as follows:

Air complements Fire complements Earth complements Water complements Air.
Air opposes Earth. Fire opposes Water.
Air perfects Water perfects Earth perfects Fire perfects Air.


Apotheosis: You can enter the Avatar State at will as a swift action once per encounter, and are in full control of the state as it occurs; you do not have to spend Destiny Points to move in or out of the form, but you must spend one Spirit Point every round that you remain in the state voluntarily. Mechanics for the Avatar State are detailed in the Avatar Template.
Requires Realization, GM Approval - this is a very powerful talent.
Complementary Element: You begin to learn your second element. You bend this element at a -2 penalty to your bender level, using any compatible forms which you know. You gain access to the benefits of the Spiritual feat for both your original element and the complementary one. However, your bending and melee attacks may only benefit from one element at a time. The sub-variants of Earth and Water count as different elements for this purpose.
Energybending: As a full-round action, you can spend a spirit point to attempt to awaken or hush the spark of energy and mind which grants a creature its ability to bend. Your target must be within touch range, and either be willing, or unable to move or take any actions in order to make this attack. You place your hands upon their forehead and heart and reach for the energy deep inside of them. Make an opposed bender level check. If you succeed, you either remove the target's Spiritual feat or grant them eligibility to take the feat at their leisure as applicable. If you lose the opposed roll, the target has the option of instantly killing you or doing the same to you.
Opposing Element: You begin to learn your third element. You bend this element at a -4 penalty to your bender level, using any compatible forms which you know. Your penalties for bending the earlier element in the cycle decrease by 2. You gain access to the benefits of the Spiritual feat for both your original element and the opposing one. However, your bending and melee attacks may only benefit from one element at a time. The sub-variants of Earth and Water count as different elements for this purpose.
Perfected Element: You begin to learn your final element. You bend this element at a -2 penalty to your bender level, using any compatible forms which you know. Your penalties for bending both of the earlier elements in the cycle decrease by 2. If you do not possess Opposing Element, your forms fizzle or go wild (harming a random person within 6 squares) on rolls of Natural 1 or 20, respectively. You gain access to the benefits of the Spiritual feat for both your original element and the perfected one. However, your bending and melee attacks may only benefit from one element at a time. The sub-variants of Earth and Water count as different elements for this purpose.
Power of the Avatar: You can spend a spirit point to increase your effective bender level by eight for the next bending related activity you complete (such as quieting an earthquake with the Storm God feat, or using a bending form).
Requires Realization.
Realization: You can now bend all elements, and no longer take any penalties for bending a different element than your primary element. Additionally, your bending and melee attacks can combine the traits of any four elements as you wish. The sub-variants of Earth and Water count as different elements for this purpose.
Requires Complementary Element, Opposing Element, Perfected Element.
Spirit Walker: As a full-round action, your spirit may enter and exit your body at will. While your spirit has left your body, your body is helpless, though clearly alive; you appear as though meditating, or in a coma. You can move in all directions at your land speed, though you are unable to bend or affect the material world. Only other spirits or creatures with the Spirit Talker feat can see or communicate with you in this state. In places where the fabric between the Spirit World and the Avatar World is weak, you can cross between the two as if you were moving through an open door.

The Bounty Hunter
EXAMPLES OF BOUNTY HUNTERS IN AVATAR: The Rough Rhinos, Combustion Man, June

The Crime Lord
EXAMPLES OF CRIME LORDS IN AVATAR: Azula, Grand Secretariat Long Feng

The Inspire Fear series of talents do not stack effects with the Imperious Presence technique.

Interesting note (not a change) - due to the easy entrance requirements, and the talent every level, Crime Lords make for effective 'bending masters' who focus more on diversity of technique than specialization.

The Elite Trooper
Replace the feat requirements line with the following:
Feats: Armor Proficiency (medium) or Martial Arts III, Improved Damage Threshold, Toughness

EXAMPLES OF ELITE TROOPERS IN AVATAR: Fire Lord Ozai, The Boulder, The Kyoshi Warriors, Toph Bei Fong, Ty Lee

NEW WEAPON MASTER TALENT
The following new talent belongs to the Weapon Master talent tree, which is available to members of the Elite Trooper class.

Threatening Weapon: While wielding a weapon you have Weapon Specialization in, opponents within reach using Unarmed Attacks always provoke attacks of opportunity from you, even if they have the Martial Arts I feat.

The Gunslinger
Weapon Proficiency (pistols) is not a requirement to take this class any further. All references to pistols, guns and suchlike are replaced by references to thrown weapons. The class is referred to as the Trick Thrower.

EXAMPLES OF TRICK THROWERS IN AVATAR: Mai

NEW TRICK THROWER TALENT
The following new talent belongs to the Trick Thrower talent tree, which is available to members of the Trick Thrower class.

Ranged Pin: If you aim before making a thrown attack, you can attempt a grappling attack while within point-blank range of your ranged weapon. If you succeed on the attack and your opponent fails the opposed grapple check, they are automatically pinned until the start of your next turn. A pinned creature can't move or take any actions while pinned, and it loses its Dexterity Bonus (if any) to Reflex Defense.

The Officer
EXAMPLES OF OFFICERS IN AVATAR: Chief Hakoda, Sokka, Suki

The Sifu (New Class)
Martial arts are a way of bettering yourself through holistic body maintenance and advancement; there are many paths to achieving martial mastery, from brawling until you reach spontaneous enlightenment to the more traditional contemplation in the midst of a training regimen. Members of other classes can be (and often are) martial arts masters in their own ways, but the Sifu extends their mastery of self and martial skill into almost magical terms, continuing this into their mundane, daily experiences. For them, martial arts are not a way of defense or a method of attack, but a path of life. Many benders (but not all) take up this class, while others follow other pursuits.

EXAMPLES OF SIFU IN AVATAR: General Jeong-Jeong, Guru Pathik, Katara, King Bumi, Master Pakku, Master Piandao, Ty Lee, Uncle Iroh, Zuko.

REQUIREMENTS: To qualify to become a Sifu, a character must fulfill the following criteria.
Heroic Level: 7+
Skills: Athletics or Acrobatics trained; Attunement trained.

GAME RULE INFORMATION: Sifu have the following game statistics.
Hit Points: At each level, Sifu gain 1d6 hit points + their Constitution modifier.
Spirit Points: Sifu gain a number of Spirit Points equal to 6 + one-half their character level, rounded down, every time they gain a new level in this class.

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Class Features
1st | +1 | Defense bonuses, talent
2nd | +2 | Serenity (+2)
3rd | +3 | Talent
4th | +4 | Serenity (+4)
5th | +5 | Talent
6th | +6 | Serenity (+6)
7th | +7 | Talent
8th | +6 | Serenity (+8)
9th | +9 | Talent
10th | +10 | Serenity (+10)[/table]

CLASS FEATURES: The following are features of the Sifu prestige class.
Defense Bonuses: At 1st level, you gain a +3 class bonus to your Reflex, Fortitude, and Will Defense.
Talents: At every odd-numbered level (1st, 3rd, 5th, and so on), you select a talent. The talent may be selected from the Fortune talent tree (pg 46), the Weapon Specialist talent tree (pg 53) or the Internalist talent tree (presented below).

INTERNALIST TALENT TREE
You begin perfection of self and body.

Diamond Soul: You gain a permanent +2 bonus to your Will and Fortitude Defenses.
Purity of Body: You are immune to poison and disease.
Qi Lockout: When you exceed a target's damage threshold with an unarmed attack, you can instead block them from performing any bender forms or using a spirit point for the next round. They still take damage from the attack.
Serendipity: After entering Serenity, you may spend a move action to gain a bonus equal to half your Sifu level to attacks and defenses on every round that you could replace a roll with Serenity but do not.
Stunning Fist: Your unarmed attacks can now deal stun damage, and gain the attendant benefits.
Requires Martial Arts III.
Suspend: As a full-round action, you can spend a Spirit point to pause one willing or helpless creature touched. The creature suspends life entirely, only faintly breathing and lost in the world of the dreaming. Only close inspection can reveal that they are, in fact, alive. While suspended, the creature regains hit points as though they were in an attuned trance. Though they are not aware of what is going on outside their body, they are aware that they are in a peaceful trance, and have an approximate idea of how much time has passed. One day after being placed in suspension, the creature immediately reawakens. A creature trained in attunement can end their suspension at any time.
Wholeness of Body: When you use your Second Wind, you also move +2 steps along the condition track.

Serenity: Once per encounter as a swift action, you may enter a state of serenity. You become immune to fear for the rest of the encounter. In addition, you may treat one d20 roll you make in the next minute (10 rounds) as if you had rolled a 10. This roll also gains an untyped bonus equal to your class level.

AstralFire
2009-07-25, 03:20 PM
Skills
Athletics
This new skill subsumes Climb, Jump, and Swim. Any class which previously had one of these skills gains this skill instead.

Attunement (Wis)
This skill represents your ability to connect with and see the spirits of the true world - the world beyond this one.
Enter Trance (trained only): As a full-round action, you can enter an attuned trance with a DC 10 Attunement check. In this state, you remain fully aware of your surroundings. Each hour you remain in the trance, you regain a number of hit points equal to your character level. You can emerge from the trance as a swift action. If you remain in such a trance for 4 consecutive hours, you emerge from the trance fully rested (as though you'd rested for 8 hours.)
See Spirits: You can communicate with and see a spirit normally. The DC for this ability is equal to the spirit's heroic level + 10; using this ability is a reaction.
Sense Lifeforce (trained only): You reach out and touch the soul of a being within sight of you, finding out its true potential. As a move action, you can attempt to find out if the creature is a bender (or has the potential to be one) and which element they are most strongly tied to. Additionally, you get a feel for the target's approximate mix of yin and yang, as well as its effective bender level (all creatures, even if they cannot bend, have an effective bender level; it is equal to their heroic level plus their wisdom modifier). The DC is equal to the target's Will Defense.
Retry: If you fail an Attunement check, you cannot make any further Attunement checks against the targeted creature for 24 hours.
Special: You can take 10 on an Attunement check, or you can take 20 if you spend ten minutes observing the target without engaging in combat.
Class Skill: Soldier, Scoundrel and Scout.

Deception
If you are engaged in combat, all deceptions are treated as one step harder to pass off. This does not apply to feints or diversions to hide.
New usage:
Hide Chi (Trained Only): Whenever someone using the Attunement skill targets you, you may roll your Deception skill as a reaction. If the value exceeds your Will Defense, use that value in place of your Will Defense to oppose the Attunement skill usage.

Persuasion
Succeeding on an Intimidate check moves the target -1 step along the condition track. This is a mind-affecting fear effect, and multiple conditions from Intimidation do not stack.

All uses of Persuasion typically require at least 5 consecutive rounds of swift actions, (or 30 seconds) rather than one full-round action (6 seconds). In some cases, such as diplomatic negotiations, the GM may require much more time and multiple checks.

Treat Injury
All uses of this skill provoke attacks of opportunity.

Use Computer
For obvious reasons, this skill is not really applicable.

Skill Stunts
Skill stunts are a part of the system designed to open up a second tier of abilities which only a true specialist can master. They are not all exceptionally difficult in concept or execution; many are maneuvers which can be easily pulled off by anyone who's spent sufficient time learning them. Only someone with the Skill Focus feat in a skill can attempt one of these usages.

Acrobatics
Kinetic Grace: You can traverse a wall or even a liquid surface as long as you begin and end your turn on a solid, horizontal surface. The height you can achieve on a wall is limited only by this movement restriction. If you do not end your move on a solid, horizontal surface, you fall prone (or into the liquid), taking falling damage as appropriate, if any. If you run over a hazardous surface such as lava, you take normal exposure damage for that round. Treat the wall or liquid as a normal floor for the purpose of measuring your movement. Passing from floor to wall or water costs no movement; you can change surfaces freely. You provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for all movement.
Skywalker: When Balancing across a surface, you can take a penalty of 5 to your skill check in order to move your full speed.

Athletics
Leap of the Clouds: You're always considered to have a running start on jumps, and do not need a pole vault to maximize your High Jumps.
Rockhop: You can move a single square as a swift action. This movement provokes no attacks of opportunity.
Speed Swimmer: By taking a -10 penalty on the check, you can swim your speed as a full-round action, or half your speed as a move action.
Wall Jump: When leaping onto a wall, you can directly ascend the distance given in your Jump check, then climb half your speed up the wall as a move action. You can leap from wall to wall if two are within reach of each other. You must make the climb DC for a given wall for this stunt to function.

Attunement
Blindfight: As a full-round action, you can concentrate on a single creature who opposes you. For the rest of the encounter, you treat his concealment against you as less effective, halving your penalty to attack and skill rolls against that one target. (Round down.) If you select a new target, your benefits against the old one disappear.
Sense Atman: You can sense sources of chi. As a standard action, you can become aware of the presence of any creatures within a range in meters equal to their effective bender level squared, though in a place teeming with animal or human life, creatures that are not extremely exceptional in strength can quickly become 'drowned out' in background noise. If you perform this ability as a full-round action instead, you can attempt to Sense Lifeforce against a single creature detected, rolling your Attunement skill against their Will Defense. If your skill roll exceeds their Will Defense by 10 or more, you also learn their approximate location (within 1 square).

Deception
Deception has no Focus only uses because of the Rhetorical Training system.

Endurance
Diehard: The first time in an encounter you would ordinarily be knocked down 1 step or more on the condition track, reduce your movement along the condition track by 1 step.

Gather Information
Busybody: You can take 20 on a Gather Information check by taking 6 hours to search. You cannot use this ability with Connections.
Connections: You can use your Gather Information check in place of a Deception or Persuasion check to obtain or cheapen goods or a service. This usage of the skill takes 3 hours for most things; exceptionally valuable or risky services might require days.
Owe You Nothin': You do not have to pay bribes when gathering information; opting to do so grants you an additional +2 bonus on your check.

Initiative
Initiative has no Focus only uses because it's always important.

Knowledge
Academic Research: If you spend an hour in study or contemplation after failing a knowledge check, you can attempt that check again. This may only be done once per day for a particular need for knowledge.
Specialist: You may spend a spirit point to take 20 on a knowledge check as a free action.

Mechanics
- This skill is under review for the setting. -

Perception
Private Eye: You can search a 1-square area as a swift action.

Persuasion
Persuasion has no Focus only uses because of the Rhetorical Training system.

Pilot
- This skill is under review for the setting. -

Ride
Attack from Cover: You can attack while using your mount as cover, at a -5 penalty to your attack rolls.
Mounted Combat: Once per round when your mount is hit in combat, you may attempt a Ride check (as a reaction) to negate the hit. The hit is negated if your Ride check result is greater than the opponent’s attack roll.
Pounce: As a reaction after you or your mount are attacked, you may immediately make an athletics check to dismount and leap forward in any direction you choose. If the attack was successful, you or your mount still take damage from the attack. You may also perform this ability as a swift action on your turn.

Stealth
Stealth has no Focus only uses because it's always important.

Survival
Intuit Direction: Wherever you are, you can determine the direction to a location with no tools.

{table=head]DC | Familiarity with Location
20 | Very familiar
25 | Studied carefully
30 | Seen casually
35 | Description only[/table]

As a full-round action, you know the direction to the desired location. This merely points you in the direction of the location; it doesn’t provide you with information on how to get there, nor does it take into account any obstacles in the path.

Treat Injury
Energize: As a standard action, you can administer energizing herbs to an adjacent target. If you succeed on a DC 25 Treat Injury check, the creature regains a number of hit points equal to its character level. Additionally, the creature gains a +1 bonus to its attack rolls for the rest of the encounter, though it moves one step down the condition track after the end of the encounter. A creature can only receive one successful energize an hour.
Smellingsalts: As a standard action, you can attempt to shock an adjacent target back up to full action. If you succeed on a DC 25 Treat Injury check, you can temporarily move the target up 1 step on the condition track, even if it is due to a persistent condition; these persistent conditions return and still affect the character following the end of the encounter. A given creature can only benefit from this ability once per encounter.

Feats
Any feat or talent which allows you to select a weapon type such as 'advanced' or 'unarmed' allows for 'Bending' as a valid choice.

The following feats return from the Star Wars Saga Edition core rulebook unchanged: Acrobatic Strike, Armor Proficiency (All), Bantha Rush, Careful Shot, Charging Fire, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Coordinated Attack, Crush, Deadeye, Dodge, Double Attack, Dreadful Rage, Dual Weapon Mastery (All), Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Extra Rage, Extra Second Wind, Great Cleave, Improved Charge, Improved Defenses, Improved Disarm, Improved Damage Threshold, Melee Defense, Mighty Swing, Mobility, Pin, Point-Blank Shot, Power Attack, Powerful Charge, Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Rapid Shot, Rapid Strike, Running Attack, Shake It Off, Skill Focus, Skill Training, Sniper, Surgical Expertise, Throw, Toughness, Trip, Triple Attack, Triple Crit, Vehicular Combat, Weapon Focus, Weapon Proficiency, Whirlwind Attack.

Active Defense
If an opponent fails to strike you with an attack by 5 or more, you gain a +3 bonus to your attack rolls against that opponent until the end of your next round.
Special: Waterbenders may select this as a bonus feat, even if it is not normally on their class bonus feat list.

Aqua Unity
If you were previously more familiar with plants or pure waterbending, you are now equally capable with both types.
Prerequisite: Spiritual (Water)
Special: Waterbenders may select this as a bonus feat, even if it is not normally on their class bonus feat list.

Burn Them Down
Once per encounter, select a single opponent within line of sight as a swift action. Every two consecutive rounds that you attempt attack rolls against this opponent, they drop one step along the condition track. If they gain even partial cover or concealment against you, or lose line of sight to you, this effect is interrupted. This cannot bring them below -4 steps on the condition track.
Special: Firebenders may select this as a bonus feat, even if it is not normally on their class bonus feat list.

Channel the River of Souls
You regain one additional spirit point a week.
Special: This feat is on the class bonus feat list for the Noble and Scoundrel classes.

Closed Heart
Words don't get you that easily. You gain +3 to your Will Defense against rhetorical techniques. You can take this feat more than once; its effects stack. Each time you take this feat, increase your Will Defense against rhetorical techniques by 3.
Special: If you take this feat three times, you are immune to fear effects.

Dancing Flames
If you successfully strike your opponent from a charge, you gain partial concealment from that target until your next action.
Prerequisites: Requires Acrobatics as a trained skill.
Special: Firebenders may select this as a bonus feat, even if it is not normally on their class bonus feat list.

Defensive Roll
Once per encounter, when you would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by physical damage, you can roll with the damage, and take only half damage from the blow. You must be aware of the attack and able to react to it in order to execute your defensive roll.
Special: Airbenders may select this as a bonus feat, even if it is not normally on their class bonus feat list.

Dropdown:
When you use any reactive ability, you may immediately drop prone at the end of the action if you feel this will benefit you (prone targets are harder to hit with ranged attacks). Furthermore, you can rise from prone as a free action on your turn by making a DC 20 Acrobatics check.
Prerequisites: Acrobatics as a trained skill.
Special: Airbenders may select this as a bonus feat, even if it is not normally on their class bonus feat list.

Earth Unity
You can bend metal in addition to earth of all kinds. Additionally, if you were previously more familiar with sand or solid rock, you are now equally capable with both types.
Prerequisite: Spiritual (Earth)
Special: Earthbenders may select this as a bonus feat, even if it is not normally on their class bonus feat list.

Far Shot
You are better at shooting distant foes. Multiply the weapon's effective range by 50% to determine how far you can hit targets. You may take this feat up to 4 times; use the weapon's base range (not its modifier range) to determine the new range.
Prerequisite: Point-Blank Shot.
Special: This feat is on the class bonus feat list for the Scoundrel, Scout, and Soldier classes.

Martial Arts I
Your unarmed damage increases by 1 size (from 1d4 to 1d6), and you no longer provoke attacks of opportunity for making an unarmed strike. In addition, you gain a +1 accuracy bonus to your unarmed strikes and bending attacks.
Special: This feat is on the class bonus feat list for all classes.

Martial Arts II
Your unarmed damage increases by 1 size (from 1d6 to 1d8). In addition, you gain a +2 accuracy bonus to your unarmed strikes and bending attacks. These bonuses do not stack with those granted by Martial Arts I.
Prerequisite: Martial Arts I.
Special: This feat is on the class bonus feat list for all classes.

Martial Arts III
Your unarmed damage increases by 1 size (from 1d8 to 2d6). In addition, you gain a +3 accuracy bonus to your unarmed strikes and bending attacks. These bonuses do not stack with those granted by Martial Arts I or II.
Prerequisite: Martial Arts II.
Special: This feat is on the class bonus feat list for all classes.

Open-Minded
You may choose your Bender talents from all non-universal disciplines, though you are not granted the ability to bend elements from those disciplines. Additionally, you may use your Wisdom modifier in the place of your Charisma modifier on your bender attack rolls.
Prerequisite: Spiritual.

Point-Blank Shot
You get a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at ranges of up to 6 squares.
Special: This feat is on the class bonus feat list for the Scoundrel, Scout, and Soldier classes.

Power Attack
On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all attack rolls and add the same number to all damage rolls. The number subtracted may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn. You may use this application of the feat with Balanced or Polearm weapons in one hand, Double weapons, and Bow Weapons. If you attack with a Balanced or Polearm weapon in two hands, a Heavy weapon, or a Leverage weapon, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls.
Prerequisite: Strength 13+.
Special: This feat is on the class bonus feat list for the Scout and Soldier classes.

Rain of Blades
You can draw additional weapons as part of your attack. Whenever you make an attack roll, immediately draw your next weapon. You must have at least one hand empty when using this feat, making it ideal for two weapon fighters who left one sheathed, or thrown weapon fighters.
Prerequisites: Quick Draw.
Special: This feat is on the class bonus feat list for the Noble and Scoundrel classes.

Rhetorical Training
You learn three new Rhetorical Techniques. You may take this feat multiple times, and you may select the same Form more than once in order to allow for multiple uses within the same encounter.
Prerequisite: Deception or Persuasion as a Trained Skill
Special: This feat is on the class bonus feat list for the Noble class, but may only be taken as a Noble bonus feat once.

Rock Steady
Each round in which you do not move more than 1 square grants you a bonus to grapple, disarm, trip, and sunder rolls equal to one-half your Heroic Level until the start of your next turn.
Prerequisite: Athletics as a trained skill.
Special: Earthbenders may select this as a bonus feat, even if it is not normally on their class bonus feat list.

Shield Slam
When you take a full attack action, you may use your Light or Medium shield as your main hand weapon; shields have no accuracy bonus to their attack roll and deal no damage. However, targets which you successfully hit with your shield are rendered flat-footed until their next turn, leaving you free to hit them with your off-hand.
Special: This feat is on the class bonus feat list for the Soldier class.

Shield Wall
When fighting defensively or taking the all-out defense action with your heavy shield, if you are hit by an area attack, you take half damage if the attack hit you. If the area attack misses you, you take no damage.
Special: This feat is on the class bonus feat list for the Soldier class.

Spiritual
You gain the ability to bend forms, along with other benefits listed in the next post. You gain 1 bending talent for which you are eligible, and 2 bending forms of your choice when you first take this feat.
Prerequisites: This feat can only be taken at first level, or with GM approval.

Spiritual Training
You learn four new Bender Forms. You may take this feat multiple times, and you may select the same Form more than once in order to allow for multiple uses within the same encounter. Every time you take this feat, you gain a stacking +1 miscellaneous bonus with your bending attacks, to a maximum of +3. You do not gain this benefit to attack rolls while wearing armor or using a shield.
Prerequisite: Spiritual

Storm God
You can expend a spirit point to create or calm relevant local weather or climactic changes with ten minutes of bending time. This is a universal talent because it often requires multiple elements (such as from co-bending with another bender who has this talent, or if you are the Avatar) to create common weather effects.
Air: Hurricanes and tornados.
Earth: Sandstorms, earthquakes.
Fire: Arid days, heatwaves.
Water: Rain, snow.
Earth and Fire: Magma flows.
Water and Air: Typhoons, Monsoons, Waterspouts.
Fire and Air: Firestorms (cyclones that deal fire damage and expand in size until fuel is exhausted)
Earth and Water: Tsunami.
Air, Fire and Water: Thunderstorms.
Air, Earth, and Fire: Volcanic eruptions.
The exact mechanical effects of weather are up to the DM and vary with level; however, a single bender should never be able to affect an area larger than a number of square meters equal to their bending level squared.
Prerequisites: Heroic Level 12.
Special: This feat can be taken as a bonus feat by any bender, even if it is not normally on their class bonus feat list.

Strength of the Spirits
When you spend a Spirit Point to adjust the result of an attack roll, skill check, or ability check, you add +2 to the final d6 result.
Special: This feat is on the class bonus feat list for the Noble and Scoundrel classes.

Twinkletoes
You are exceptionally light on your feet. You have total concealment against creatures using tremorsense to detect you, as well as any creature trying to detect you purely by the sound of your movements.
Special: Airbenders may select this as a bonus feat, even if it is not normally on their class bonus feat list.

Weapon Finesse
With quick weapons, or unarmed attacks, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls.
Special: This feat is on the class bonus feat list for the Noble and Scoundrel classes.

AstralFire
2009-07-25, 03:23 PM
Bending Introduction

In order to bend, you must possess the following special feat.
Spiritual
You have opened your mind to the possibilities inherent in the philosophy of a martial art. When you take this feat, select one of the elements below and gain the corresponding benefits.
{table=head]Element|Benefit
Air | Your melee attacks shove the target 1 square in any horizontal direction, provided the space is empty. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity, and you may move with the target. You may choose not to move an enemy, or not to move with them, at any time. Your airbending forms deal stun damage instead of lethal damage at your option.
Earth (Rock) | The first time in a round that you initiate an earthbending form or make a melee attack, your damage threshold increases by 5 until the start of your next turn. You bend sand at a -2 penalty to your bender level.
Earth (Sand) | The first time in a round that you initiate an earthbending form or make a melee attack, your reflex defense increases by 2 until the start of your next turn. You bend rock at a -2 penalty to your bender level.
Fire | Your damaging firebending forms and melee attacks deal fire damage rather than physical damage, and bypass damage reduction and hardness. Anytime your firebending or melee attacks beat a target's defense by 5 or more, they catch on fire.
Water | Your waterbending forms and melee attacks ignore partial cover and partial concealment. Once a round when you initiate a waterbending form, you are treated as spending one swift action towards improving your condition along the condition track. You bend plants at a -2 penalty to your bender level.
Water (Plants) | Your waterbending forms and melee attacks grant you partial concealment for the next round. You bend water at a -2 penalty to your bender level.[/table]

Additionally, as a move action you can perform relatively basic actions with your element. The element to be moved must be within 12 squares of you, but does not have to be in line of sight; in fact, this can be used to try and 'dowse' for the location of a nearby element. Applicable actions include moving a small quantity up to six squares in any direction, extinguishing or lighting a small unattended fire, changing phases of water in room temperature, or creating a sculpture (quality dependent upon level).

Finally, whenever you gain a new talent, you have the option of selecting a Bending talent (either universal, or of the appropriate element) instead. You gain one universal Bending talent free at the level that you take this feat.

Bending Forms
Forms require precise, coordinated motion. If you do not at least have two hands free, or if you are grappling, prone, or otherwise hindered in a significant way, you cannot bend any forms; however, you can still bend your element in minor ways (as mentioned in the Spiritual feat). Whenever a bending form calls for an attack roll, add your charisma modifier to your base attack bonus to determine your bonus to the d20 roll. Bending attacks are a special kind of attack, and 'Bending Attack' is a valid choice for feats such as 'Weapon Focus' or 'Triple Crit'.

Whenever you make a critical hit with a bending form, you may return one form of your choice to your Bending suite for the encounter, including the form you just used. You may not regain more than one form from the same attack, regardless of the number of targets hit. Whenever you spend three swift actions in the same round or across consecutive rounds to center yourself, you may also return one Bending Form to your Bending suite.

Using a form with a bending time of more than a swift action provokes an attack of opportunity from creatures in melee range. If you take damage while bending such a form, the form is lost - it counts against your forms per encounter as though you had expended it, but it does not activate properly.

Bender Level
A number of effects are dependent upon your effective Bender Level, which is equal to your heroic level plus your Wisdom modifier, in addition to a few talents and special abilities which can improve this value further.

Concentration Durations
If you take damage in excess of your damage threshold while maintaining a Form, the Form is immediately lost.

Cooperative Bending
In certain circumstances, multiple benders can work together to accomplish larger and more powerful feats of bending.
Organization and Action: In any cooperative bending attempt, one bender (usually the highest-level bender, but any bender can be selected) acts as the primary bender for the attempt. All benders involved must know the form being attempted.

Up to five benders can assist in the cooperative bending attempt. In order to participate in a cooperative bending attempt, all secondary benders must be within 6 squares of the primary bender and must use consecutive full-round actions to assist the primary bender until the form's bending time has been completed. The activation time increases by a factor of twenty (rounded up to the nearest full round), using the form's natural activation time before talents. Swift actions take approximately 1 second by this measure, increasing to 20 seconds, or 4 rounds. Move actions are 2 seconds increased to 40 seconds, or 7 rounds. Standard actions are 3 seconds increased to 60, or a minute. Full-round actions are 6 seconds increased to 120, or two minutes.

Forms with a duration of concentration require all involved benders to make full-round actions every round. If even one ceases concentrating (such as by taking damage in excess of his or her damage threshold), the form immediately ends.

Benefit: Each secondary bender adds one-quarter of his or her bender level to the primary bender's effective bender level. If this would increase the effective bender level to an amount above what the form lists, follow the form's progression; most follow a simple mathematical formula.

Benders of multiple disciplines can bend cooperatively together, but only if the substance to be manipulated contains bendable material for all participants. For example, a waterbender and an earthbender can work together to bend mud (containing both water and earth).

Contested Bending
If you attempt to take control of a mass of an element already under another bender's control, you must make a bending attack against the target's will defense. Success means you wrest the mass away from their control, though nothing guarantees that they won't do it right back from you.

Benders of multiple disciplines can contest against each other, but only if the substance to be manipulated contains bendable material for both participants. For example, a firebender and an airbender can vie against each other to take control of a firestorm.

Note that without the Spiritual Training feat, you do not have access to any Bending Forms.

AstralFire
2009-07-25, 03:24 PM
Forms List
Armor (Earth, Water)
Action: Move.
Target: Self.
Effect: For the duration of the encounter, you create armor of ice, rock, rubble or water that pads you and defends against outside attacks. It grants you a +2 bonus to your Fortitude and Reflex defenses, but your maximum speed is limited to 4 squares while wearing it. Due to the nature of how the armor works, it stacks with the benefit from any normal armor you wear, and does not replace your heroic level benefit to Reflex defense.

Barrier (All Elements)
Action: Full-round.
Target: One space within 12 squares.
Duration: Concentration (standard action to maintain).
Effect: You create a wall with a total length in squares equal to your effective bender level. This wall has a height of 1 square and is comprised of the element used, and has effects that vary with them.
Fire: Creatures can pass through the barrier upon making a successful strength check opposed by your attack roll. (This strength check increases or decreases by 5 for every size category larger or smaller than medium that the creature is.) Even if they do, they take damage equal to half your heroic level.
Ice, Rock: The barrier is rigid; they must deal damage equal to 10 + your heroic level to collapse a 1 square segment of the barrier, which reconstitutes itself within one round.
Air, Water: This barrier is a three-dimensional shape, such as a sphere or dome, with a height equal to half your bender level. Creatures can pass through the barrier upon making a successful strength check opposed by your attack roll+5. (This strength check increases or decreases by 5 for every size category larger or smaller than medium that the creature is.) You can attempt to drown or suffocate someone imprisoned inside, in which case normal drowning rules apply.

Blitz (Air, Fire)
Action: Full-round
Target: 6 square line originating from your square.
Effect: You make an ultrafast, focused attack against the Reflex Defense of all creatures within range. The attack's motion is highly telegraphed, so you take a -5 penalty to your attack roll with this move. Failure against a target allows them to jump out of the way; a success, however, is always a critical hit. Critical hits with this attack deal damage equal to twice your Bender Level; if you possess Triple Crit (Bending Attacks), this ability instead deals damage equal to three times your Bender Level.

Cold Fire (Fire)
Action: Standard.
Target: One target in line of sight and within 6 squares of you.
Effect: Make a bending attack against the target's Reflex Defense to successfully use this power. Failure deals half damage and no secondary effects; success deals 2d8 electrical damage and the target moves -1 step along the condition track.
Level 4: 3d8 damage.
Level 8: 4d8 damage.
Level 12: 5d8 damage.
Level 16: 6d8 damage.
Level 20: 7d8 damage.
Level 24: 8d8 damage.
Level 28: 9d8 damage.

Cyclone (Air)
Action: Full-round.
Target: One square within 6 squares.
Duration: Concentration (standard action to maintain).
Effect: You create a cyclone of Large size, two squares high and one square wide. This cyclone moves as directed on your turn in a straight line up to any position within range. Whenever it comes into contact with a target, you make a bending attack against their Reflex Defense; failure means the cyclone keeps moving past them to the end of your range. Success flings the target in a direction of your choice a number of squares equal to half your bender level, minimum 2. This deals damage as if they had fallen that distance (or 1d6 damage for every four bender levels you possess, minimum 1d6) knocking them prone. This damage can be reduced by a successful acrobatics check - if it is negated, they are not knocked prone.

Elemental Spray (All Elements)
A shower of sparks, a puff of dust, something to distract and confuse your opponent more than damage them.
Action: Swift.
Target: One creature within 12 squares and in your line of sight.
Effect: Make a bending attack against the target's Reflex defense. If you succeed, they take damage equal to one-half your bender level.
Special: If you bend this ability as a standard action and make a successful attack, the target is considered flat-footed for the next round as you obstruct their senses. All creatures gain total concealment against the target as well.

Explosive Wave (Earth, Fire)
Action: Reaction
Target: One creature you have just missed with an unarmed or earth/firebending attack which targets Reflex Defense.
Effect: As your swing goes wild, you hurl more of your element into the attack and make it explode with volatile force, striking the opponent unawares in a sensitive spot. Make an attack against the creature's Fortitude Defense. If successful, you deal no damage, but the target is made flat-footed and prone until their next turn.

Golem (Earth, Water)
Action: Full-round.
Duration: Concentration (standard action to maintain).
Effects: Creates a bender golem out of your element in a square within 12 squares of you. This golem has half your health, a base attack bonus equal to your bender level, and deals 1d8 plus ½ your bender level on a melee attack. It has no special abilities, and can move up to your speed; if attacked, it shares your defenses, although it is immune to abilities which target its Will Defense as well as all mind-affecting effects. The golem acts on your turn when you take the standard action to maintain it; it can make attacks of opportunity, but it draws from your supply of attacks of opportunity. You can increases or decrease its size - for each size larger than medium, it takes a -1 penalty to reflex defense and attack and gains a +4 bonus to Fortitude Defense. For each size smaller, reverse the benefits.

Gust (Air)
Action: Swift.
Targets: One Small or smaller object or character within 12 squares and also line of sight.
Effects: Make a bending attack roll against the target's Fortitude Defense. If successful, you push it up to 1 square in any direction and deal damage equal to one-half your heroic level.
Level 4: Affect targets up to Medium size.
Level 8: Push the target up to 2 squares in any direction.
Level 12: Affect targets up to Large size.
Level 16: Push the target up to 3 squares in any direction.
Level 20: Affect targets up to Huge size.
Level 24: Push the target up to 4 squares in any direction.
Level 28: Affect targets up to Gargantuan size.
Special: Spending a Spirit Point to activate this power causes a success to knock the target prone in addition to its usual effect, and on a failure it still moves the target (though it deals no damage).

Heatwave (Fire)
You concentrate heat around a creature's head, inducing nausea and sickness.
Action: Standard
Target: One creature within 6 squares.
Effect: Make a bender attack against the target's Fortitude Defense. If successful, they move -1 step down the condition track.
Special: You can spend a Spirit Point when you use this power to make this a persistent condition. Multiple persistent conditions from Heatwave do not stack.

Mist (Water)
Action: Full-round.
Target: 12 square circle centered on you.
Effect: You agitate the water droplets trapped in the air around you and condense more from the surrounding area, bringing a squat but heavy cloud on the ground right around you. All creatures within the area have total concealment against one another if using sight to locate; when moving into or adjacent to a square with difficult terrain, they must make a DC (10+Bender Level) Acrobatics check or end up prone. The mist lasts until the end of the encounter. Area attacks clear a path through the mist all the way from the point of origin to the target square.

Move Element (All)
Action: Standard.
Duration: Concentration (standard action to maintain; cannot be maintained if you deal damage).
Target: A mass of your element within 12 squares and within line of sight.
Effect: You can move a mass of your element (size as determined below) to another spot within 6 squares. If this mass is currently being controlled by another bender, you must make a bender attack against their Will Defense to wrest control successfully. You can gently place, hurl, or drop this mass at another target in range if your attack exceeds the second target's reflex defense. Targets take damage as determined by your level - this is independent of the size. You cannot effectively attack with an amount greater than Large, except with the Mass Move talent.
Level 0: 2d6 damage, Small Size
Level 4: 3d6 damage, Medium Size
Level 8: 4d6 damage, Large Size
Level 12: 6d6 damage, Huge Size
Level 16: 8d6 damage, Gargantuan Size
Level 20: 10d6 damage, Colossal Size
Level 24: 12d6 damage, Colossal+ Size
Level 28: 14d6 damage, Colossal++ Size

Alternately, you may do this damage to the mass itself, if it is part of a structure that is difficult to move; this damage may be part of changing the density or phase of the substance. If you are a firebender, you may instead create a flame of up to this size - moving a flame effectively extinguishes it from its original location, provided that you can control a flame of that size.

Puppet (Water)
Action: Full-round.
Target: One living creature within 6 squares.
Duration: Concentration (full-round action to maintain).
Effect: Roll a single bending attack against the target's Fortitude and Will Defenses. Failure against either results in no effect; success renders the target a puppet. You can force the subject to stand up, sit down, walk, turn around, and so on, but operating the vocal cords is too difficult. You can also hold the subject immobile, rendering it helpless. You cannot force the subject to bend, or use any special ability that is not a function of just its body movements. If you lose line of sight to the subject, the effect of this power ends. You must make another attack roll against both defenses every round. If you force the subject to engage in combat, its attack bonus is equal to your base attack bonus + your Charisma bonus, and its bonus on damage rolls is equal to your Charisma bonus. A subject of this power cannot make attacks of opportunity. The subject gains no benefit to Armor Class from its Dexterity, but it does gain a bonus to its Reflex Defense equal to your Charisma bonus. Although the subject's body is under your control, the subject's mind is not. Creatures capable of taking purely mental actions can do so.
Special: When this power ends, you may spend a spirit point to make an attack against the target's Fortitude Defense as a reaction. Success drops the target one step along the condition track.

Quake (Earth)
Action: Swift.
Target: 3x3 radius, with the center within 12 squares of you.
Effect: The ground there becomes difficult terrain. Make a bending attack against the reflex defense of creatures within the area; those that fail are knocked prone.

Revitalize (Water)
Action: Standard.
Target: One creature touched besides yourself.
Effect: You improve the creature +2 steps on the condition track, though you are unable to remove any persistent conditions in this manner.

Refraction (Air, Fire)
Action: Standard.
Target: One square within 12 squares of you and within line of sight.
Effect: You create a superheated bubble of air in that square, refracting and generating large amounts of light. Make a bender attack against the will defense of all creatures who can see the bubble. Those who fail (or voluntarily choose to look at the bubble) are distracted, granting all creatures a diversion to hide. The bubble immediately explodes in blinding light (harmlessly) - but if this attack also defeats a creature's reflex defense, all creatures are granted partial concealment against them for the next round, as they are dazzled.

Rush (Air, Fire)
Action: Free.
Target: Personal.
Effect: Energy surges through you and out your feet, making you light as a feather and granting you additional speed and strength for one round. (All bonuses to 'jump' checks refer to athletics checks to make a jump.)
Level 4: +5 bonus to Jump, +2 bonus to speed.
Level 8: +10 bonus to Jump, +3 bonus to speed.
Level 12: +15 bonus to Jump, +4 bonus to speed.
Level 16: +20 bonus to Jump, +5 bonus to speed.
Level 20: +25 bonus to Jump, +6 bonus to speed.
Level 24: +35 bonus to Jump, +8 bonus to speed.
Level 28: +50 bonus to Jump, +10 bonus to speed.
Special: You can spend a Spirit Point when you use this ability to make mid-air jumps in any direction.

Thunderclap (Air)
Action: Standard
Target: See text
Effect: Select a 6 square line originating from your space, or a 3 square cone originating from your space, then make a Bending attack against the Fortitude Defense of all creatures within the area. If successful, a creature within the area of attack is deafened for the next round, preventing them from hearing anything. This imposes a -10 penalty on their perception checks to oppose stealth, and also induces vertigo; until an affected target takes 3 swift actions within consecutive rounds to clear their head, they move at half speed and cannot charge. Any effect which would raise a creature along the condition track also removes the vertigo.

Transit (Earth, Water)
Action: Swift
Target: Self
Effect: Move up to your speed through or on top of your element. When burrowing through ice or earth, where you entered and exited the ground becomes quickly apparent under any examination, but the holes fill themselves in after you leave to make direct following difficult.

Tremorsense (Earth)
Action: Full-round.
Target: Personal
Effect: Until the end of the encounter, you gain blindsense out to a number of squares equal to half your bender level, as long as you remain in contact with the ground.

AstralFire
2009-07-25, 03:27 PM
Bending Talents
Universal
Devastating Form: As a reaction when you successfully strike with a form, you may spend a spirit point to increase all damage caused by the form by 50%.
Requires Heroic Level 13.

Deflect Attack: When not wearing armor, as a reaction you may boost your Reflex Defense by 5 against an attack. Multiple deflections in a round reduce the bonus to reflex defense by 2 each time. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed in order to use this talent.

Elemental Reach: Pick one form that you possess. Double your effective range with this ability. You may take this talent multiple times, selecting a new form each time.

Elemental Strike: As long as you have access to your element, your melee attacks gain +5 squares of reach which they cannot use to threaten a square, representing your ability to shoot, blast, or create tendrils with these elements.

Greater Bending Focus: You gain a +2 bonus on your bending attack rolls. This bonus does not stack with Weapon Focus (Bending).
Requires Weapon Focus (Bending), Heroic Level 5.

Heavenly Strike: When you use your Boulderfist or Falcon Punch, you may choose to use a Spirit Point. If you do so, you provoke no attack of opportunity for a missed attack. Additionally, if the damage done exceeds the target's damage threshold, you move the target an additional step down the condition track and knock the target prone. This ability does not stack with Stunning Strike, nor can it ever be stun damage.
Requires Boulderfist or Falcon Punch; Heroic Level 13.

Intensity: You may add your Charisma modifier in addition to your Wisdom modifier when determining your Bender Level.

Lasting Form: When you bend a form with a duration of concentration, you may spend a spirit point to maintain it for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1) with a swift action rather than a standard action, or a standard action rather than a full-round action.
Requires Heroic Level 13.

Move Mass: You can spend a spirit point when you make a Move Element attack to turn it into a mass attack. Mass attacks deal 2d6 less damage in a 1 square area around the target in addition to the primary target. The primary target only takes half damage on a successful defense (rather than taking no damage), and all affected creatures are thrown 3 squares in a random horizontal direction (that provokes no attacks of opportunity).
Requires Move Element.

Spiritual Harmony: The first spirit point you spend in an encounter is automatically repaid to you at the end of the encounter.
Requires Heroic Level 9.

Swift Form: When bending a form with an action of full-round or shorter, you may spend a spirit point to activate the form as though it were two steps smaller. A full-round form becomes a move action, a standard action becomes a swift action, a move action becomes a free action, and a swift action can be used as a reaction.
Requires Heroic Level 13.

Twin Form: When you bend a form - before you know the results - you may spend a spirit point to create a second, identical usage of the form on another eligible target.
Requires Heroic Level 13.

Air
Cyclone Master: Your cyclones can vary in size between tiny (such as an air scooter) and huge, and do not necessarily have to deal damage to a target; instead, they can carry a willing target. You can now bend a Cyclone as a standard action. Additionally, if you spend a full-round action to bend the attack, you may roll the attack roll twice and take the better of the two results.
Requires Cyclone.

Evasive Deflection: As part of a Deflect Attack reaction, you may increase the Reflex Defense bonus by an additional +4 by expending one of your airbending forms for the encounter.
Requires Deflect Attack.

Repulse: As a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity, you can give up one of your Move Element uses for the encounter and instead explode in a burst of high winds. All creatures within 6 squares of you are pushed 3 squares away from you, in the most direct route possible.

Shadow of the Wind: Whenever you move at least 2 squares in a round, you gain partial concealment against all opponents not in melee range of you. An Earthbender using this ability provokes no attacks of opportunity for their movement provided that they make no attacks on their turn this round. (Attacks of opportunity and attacks from reactions are fine.)
Requires Heroic Level 7.

Yielding Reed: If damaged while bending a form (such as from an Attack of Opportunity or a readied action), the form fails to activate only if you take damage in excess of your damage threshold. If a form fails to activate due to damage, it is not considered to be expended.
Requires Endurance as a trained skill.

Earth
Boulderfist: You initiate a form and wait to let its power go until the time is right. Once per round as a swift action before making a melee attack, you can declare your intent to use this talent. In order to do so, you must expend one usage of Move Element from your bending suite. If your attack hits, you can add your Move Element damage to your melee attack. If it does not hit, you provoke an attack of opportunity from the target.
Requires Elemental Strike, Move Element.

Earth Talker: You can bend Tremorsense as a swift action, or spend a Spirit Point to bend it as a reaction. Its range increases to 1 square per bender level.
Requires Tremorsense.

Grasp of the Earth: You can spend a Spirit Point as a swift action to allow yourself to threaten with Elemental Strike's reach for the duration of the encounter, striking through the ground with stalagmites. (Other elements may use tentacles, for example, to utilize this talent.) You are not able to use Bending Forms while Grasp of the Earth remains active.
Requires Elemental Strike.

Guard: In any round where you do not move more than your speed, a creature within melee range of you and in line of sight moving into or out of a square you threaten always provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If your attack of opportunity hits, they immediately cease movement. Airbenders using this technique can immediately attempt to trip the creature in addition to the attack. The target may not make a reactive attempt against you if you fail.
Requires Heroic Level 9.

Solid Rock: You can spend a spirit point as a swift action to gain Damage Reduction equal to ½Bender Level for the duration of the encounter. If you ever leave contact with the ground for any reason, or move more than your speed in a round, this effect ends.
Requires Quake.

Fire
Coronal Flare: As a full-round action, you can make an area attack with your unarmed strike, hitting every opponent within reach. This attack uses the area attack rules. This ability qualifies as the feat 'Whirlwind Attack'. Waterbenders using this ability push all affected targets back 1 square.
Requires Elemental Strike.

Falcon Punch: You initiate a form and wait to let its power go until the time is right. Once per round as a swift action before making a melee attack, you can declare your intent to use this talent. In order to do so, you must expend one usage of Move Element from your bending suite. If your attack hits, you can add your Move Element damage to your melee attack. If it does not hit, you provoke an attack of opportunity from the target.
Requires Elemental Strike, Move Element.

Ignite: Whenever your firebending attacks miss, as a reaction you may instead set the targeted space on fire. (This works even if the material is not normally flammable, such as stone, though it does not work on water or ice.) Every time someone ends their turn in this space, it deals damage as though they were set on fire. You may voluntarily choose to miss with an attack in order to ignite an area.

Lightning Mind: If you spend a Spirit Point when you bend Cold Fire, a successful attack knocks the target prone and they are considered flatfooted until they are back on their feet. Additionally, when you spend a full-round action to bend the attack, you may roll the attack roll twice and take the better of the two results; you do not have to spend a spirit point to gain the second benefit.
Requires Cold Fire, Heroic Level 9.

Phoenix: Once per encounter, you can spend a spirit point as a swift action to recover all steps on the condition track, excepting persistent conditions. A firebender with this talent is always considered to have sufficient heat to perform firebending.

Water
Frost Shock: When you make a waterbending attack or melee strike, you can deal cold damage instead of physical damage, bypassing damage reduction and hardness. Anytime your waterbending or melee attacks deal damage, you frost the target, reducing their speed by half for the next round.

Healing Waters: You can perform first aid and surgery without any herbs or implements as long as you have access to water. You can perform surgery to restore hit points with only a minute of work.
Requires Spiritual (Water).

Redirect: If you successfully deflect any physical damage attack, you can choose to use a spirit point to turn it back against the opponent, making an attack roll as though you were the originator of the attack. Firebenders can also redirect fire and electrical damage in this manner. When you ready the redirect, you might have a specific attack in mind that you wish to redirect. You will redirect this attack, regardless of its roll; however, you are considered flat-footed until your next turn against all other attacks. You can ready a standard action to use this ability, in which case it does not cost a spirit point.
Requires Deflect Attack, Athletics as a trained skill.

Waveform: Whenever you fight defensively, your deflect attack takes no penalty to reflex defense for subsequent uses that round.
Requires Deflect Attack.

Yielding Reed: If damaged while bending a form (such as from an Attack of Opportunity or a readied action), the form fails to activate only if you take damage in excess of your damage threshold. If a form fails to activate due to damage, it is not considered to be expended.
Requires Endurance as a trained skill.

AstralFire
2009-07-25, 03:30 PM
Rhetorical Techniques
The rhetorical techniques system provides new, combat-level options for any character wishing to specialize in words rather than weapons or bending. Similar to the system for bending forms, the rhetorical techniques system allows characters to perform incredible feats or make use of advanced tactics in order to gain the upper hand in an encounter.

A rhetorical technique is a special action that allows a character to do something beyond the bounds of the Deception and Persuasion skills.

All that is required for a rhetorical technique to succeed is that the target is able to understand your communication; thus, this can be used when line of sight is not maintained. All rhetorical techniques are mind-affecting effects.

Using a technique with an action greater than swift provokes an attack of opportunity from creatures in melee range. If you take damage while using such a technique, the technique is lost - it counts against your rhetoric suite this encounter as though you had expended it, but it does not activate properly.

Technique List
Command [Persuasion]
Action: Full-round
Make a Persuasion check against a single target at a -10 penalty. If the result equals or exceeds the target's Will Defense, you may decide their actions on the next turn in their stead. The target still controls their reactions, however, and will not commit self-harm, or expose themselves to harm; you can attempt a Deception check as normal as part of this action to try to convince them that something is harmless; if you are engaged in combat, all deceptions are treated as one step harder to pass off. If you exceed their Will Defense by an additional 10, you completely control the target's reactions and actions for the next round, no exception.

False Bravado [Deception]
Action: Standard
Make a Deception check against all targets of your choice that can currently hear and understand you. If the result equals or exceeds the target's Will Defense, they gain a morale bonus to their attack rolls equal to your Charisma modifier, and feel energized and confident; however, the first time they would move -1 step or more along the condition track, they drop an additional -1 step, and the morale bonus disappears.

Fear [Persuasion]
Action: Standard
Make a Persuasion check against a single target. If the result equals or exceeds the target's Will Defense, the target must spend at least one move action next round moving in the most direct path away from you that does not lead to another, obvious threat. If you strike them before they can make another action after the round they flee, you may recast this ability as a swift action; this can be kept up indefinitely. This is a fear effect.

Imperious Presence [Both]
Action: Swift
Make a Persuasion or Deception check against all living creatures capable of understanding you who can hear or see you. If the result equals or exceeds their Will Defense, they take a -2 penalty to all attack rolls against you for the duration of the encounter. This effect does not stack multiple times, nor with the Inspire Fear series of talents. Additionally, all spaces within 3 squares of you are considered difficult terrain to those who you successfully affected. This is a fear effect.
Special: If you perform this ability as a standard action, you can extend this benefit to all adjacent allies. This benefit fades if they ever end a turn not adjacent to you.

Moment of Weakness [Persuasion]
Action: Standard
Make a Persuasion check against a single target, taunting them to intimidate them, or perhaps coaxing them to join you. If the result equals or exceeds the target's Will Defense, they take a -5 penalty to all of their saves against the next attack to strike them this round.

Puppet Master [Deception]
Action: Full-round
Make a Deception check against a single target, telling them that something that is not true is in fact real. (Use the usual deception modifiers, as found on Page 65 of the Core Rulebook; if you are engaged in combat, all deceptions are treated as one step harder to pass off.) This does not have to be directly stated; if the target does not trust you, you can parse this as an intentional 'slip up' in a statement you expect them disbelieve, twisting them about. If the result equals or exceeds their Will Defense, you can dictate one action or reaction of the target that they make before the end of the encounter, as long as it is logically related to your lie. (For example, if you deceive the target into believing that you do not have reinforcements, you might convince him to drop his shield and go for an all-out assault.) Multiple Puppet Master usages stack and can be 'saved', to a maximum of five. As a free action, you may convert a usage into a feint.

Spirit Crusher [Deception]
Action: Standard
Make a Deception check against a single target. If the result equals or exceeds their Will Defense, you've successfully misled and warped their mind to present a different outcome than the reality they've understood, undermining their resolve. The target moves -1 step along the condition track, and any morale bonuses they currently possess transfer to you until the end of your next turn, then disappear. This is a fear effect.

AstralFire
2009-07-25, 03:33 PM
Equipment

Weaponry
Melee Weapons
{table=head]Weapon | Adv. Dmg | Adv. Acc | Simple Dmg | Simple Acc
Balanced | 2d6 | +3 | 1d8 | +2
Double | 1d10 | +2 | 1d6 | +1
Heavy | 3d6 | +2 | 2d6 | +1
Polearm | 2d8 | +1 | 1d10 | +0
Quick | 1d10 | +3 | 1d4 | +3[/table]

All weapons grant an inherent bonus to accuracy now, and all weapons can be thrown at a target within 6 squares. You cannot use most melee weapons to make thrown attacks of opportunity.

Balanced weapons can be used in one hand or two, gaining the attendant benefits, and you can make bending forms with them, though your forms do not benefit from their accuracy bonus. Advanced balanced weapons include the Jian (such as Sokka's space sword) and the Handaxe. Simple balanced weapons include the baton.

Double weapons can be used to attack both adjacent enemies and enemies one square away from you, granting you +1 reach, and you can make bending forms with them, though your forms do not benefit from their accuracy bonus. Double weapons represent a single weapon with two ends or two weapons meant to be used as twins, not merely two weapons that are used together. Though you must use two hands with a double weapon, they function as two individual weapons for most purposes, including damage. You cannot disarm a proficient user of a double weapon; long weapons are too heavy, while twin weapons are wielded too deftly. Advanced double weapons include the Double Dao Swords; simple double weapons include the Bo Staff. If you are disarmed of one end of a double weapon, the remaining end typically functions as a quick weapon.

Heavy weapons must be used in two hands. Advanced heavy weapons include the Hammer and the Waraxe. Simple heavy weapons include the Club and the Jitte.

Polearm weapons can be used in one hand or two, gaining the attendant benefits. They can be used to attack both adjacent enemies and enemies one square away from you, granting you +1 reach. Advanced polearms include the Naginata, the Halberd, and the Lochaber Axe. Simple polearms include the Spear.

Quick weapons can be used with weapon finesse or in a grapple, and critical hit on rolls of 19 or 20. Critical hits on rolls of 19 are not automatic strikes; you must beat the target's reflex defense. Advanced quick weapons include the Butterfly Sword and the Khukri; simple quick weapons include the Dagger and the Kama. When throwing a quick weapon, you may apply the Weapon Finesse feat, should you possess it.

Ranged Weapons
{table=head]Weapon | Adv. Dmg | Adv. Acc | Simple Dmg | Simple Acc
Bows | 3d6 | +2 | 2d6 | +1
Crossbows | 3d6 | +2 | 2d6 | +1
Leverage | 3d6 | +2 | 2d6 | +1
Restraining | - | +2 | - | +0[/table]
Ranged weapons have a maximum range, and do not take range penalties within that distance.

Bow weapons must be used two-handed, and add the user's strength bonus to damage. Simple bow weapons include the slingshot. They have a maximum range of 20 squares.

Crossbow weapons can be used one-handed, and do not add any sources of damage. They have a maximum range of 40 squares. You must use a move action to reload the crossbow after each shot. Crossbows can make ranged attacks of opportunity at adjacent targets.

Leverage weapons are used one-handed, but the other hand must be free in order to properly balance; you cannot use anything in the other hand this round. Leverage weapons add double the user's strength bonus to damage and can be used with the Power Attack feat. They have a maximum range of 16 squares. You must use a move action to reload a leverage weapon after each shot. Advanced leverage weapons include the atlatl and spear-thrower. Simple leverage weapons include the sling.

Restraining weapons are used one-handed and deal no damage. They allow you to initiate grabs and grapples against characters at range; characters that are grabbed or grappled can attempt to escape (requiring a DC 15 Acrobatics check for Simple, or DC 15+½ Heroic Level for Advanced) or break out of it (DC 20 Strength check for Simple, DC 20+½ Heroic Level for Advanced) as a move action. You can use the Pin and Trip feats with these weapons, but you cannot use the Crush or Throw feats. They have a maximum range of 10 squares. Advanced restraining weapons include the bolo; simple restraining weapons include the net.

Exotic Weapons
To use an exotic weapon, you must only have the corresponding Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat. The 'advanced' or 'simple' descriptions in their text only describe the weapon's basic pattern for special qualities, damage and accuracy, and not a prerequisite to use the weapon.

Boomerangs are a type of advanced leverage ranged weapon. Boomerangs automatically return to a proficient wielder's hand immediately before their next turn in most circumstances, dramatically reducing the amount of ammunition that a strong ranged attacker must use - as a result, unlike most leverage weapons, the boomerang does not need to be loaded between shots. You must always aim before using a boomerang, but boomerangs can be aimed as a single swift action.

Hook Swords are an unusual advanced double weapon that grant a proficient user the Trip and Throw feats as long as these attacks are made with the swords. You cannot make the Pin or Crush attacks with a Hook Sword.

Meteoric Hammers are modeled after the simple polearm weapon, being a dangerous set of heavy spiked orbs connected by a long, thick chain. They must always be used in two hands. If you are proficient with this weapon and possess the Power Attack feat, you only subtract half the usual value from your attack roll and take the remainder as a penalty to your Reflex Defense, representing the overwhelming momentum needed to master the weapon. When a meteoric hammer overcomes a target's damage threshold, they are knocked prone.

Pistols are a rare and unreliable type of weapon developed by machinists. They function as an advanced crossbow, except that it ignores any bonuses to damage threshold from armor and any dodge and dexterity bonuses to Reflex Defense. Just as the standard crossbow, they must be reloaded as a move action. On a roll of natural 1 or following a critical hit, the weapon jams and must be cleared (a full-round action.)

Armor
The shield is a new type of armor that grants a dodge bonus to Reflex Defense, stacking with your heroic level bonus to Reflex Defense or your armor bonus to Reflex Defense, as appropriate. There is a shield for each type of armor; when wielding a shield, you take its armor check penalty in addition to that of your armor.
{table=head]Armor (Check Penalty) | Reflex | Dmg Thres. | Max Dex | Speed
Light Armor (-2) | | | |
Buckler (Shield) | +1 | +0 | - | 100%
Hide | +1 | +2 | Unlimited | 100%
Lamellar | +4 | +0 | +4 | 100%
Mail | +2 | +2 | +2 | 100%
Medium Armor (-2) | | | |
Full Shield | +2 | +0 | - | 100%
Breastplate | +4 | +1 | Unlimited | 100%
Scale | +4 | +2 | +2 | 75%
Heavy Armor (-5) | | | |
Tower Shield | +3 | +0 | - | 100%
Full-Plate | +6 | +4 | +1 | 50%
[/table]

AstralFire
2009-07-25, 03:35 PM
Environmental Rules
On Fire
When you're on fire from a natural source, such as a torch, the fire makes an attack against your reflex defense at the end of every round. Success deals 1d6 fire damage. Failure means the fire is extinguished. A typical fire has a +5 bonus on the attack roll; unusual fires may have higher and deal more damage on a successful attack. Fires caused by a bending form use the originator's total bending attack bonus instead, and the fire deals additional damage equal to the originator's Wisdom modifier. When a creature moves one step up the condition track by any means, it automatically extinguishes the flames.

TEMPLATE: The Avatar
The Avatar is the spirit of the planet reincarnated in human form and master of all four elemental bending disciplines (Airbending, Waterbending, Earthbending and Firebending), whose task it is to keep balance among the four nations of the world. The Avatar is also a link between the human world and the Spirit World. Throughout the ages, countless incarnations of the Avatar have served to maintain harmony in the world.

At any time there is only a single Avatar, who is the spirit of the world incarnated into human form. When the Avatar dies, the Avatar Spirit is reincarnated into a newborn, who becomes the next Avatar.

Each nation has a method of recognizing the new Avatar. Among the Air Nomads, this involved presenting all infants with a selection of toys to play with, and watching for a child that selected four specific toys that had belonged to past Avatars, called the Four Avatar Relics. Traditionally, the child is told of their identity as the Avatar on their sixteenth birthday (although the current Avatar, Aang, was told much earlier than this because of Fire Nation aggression).

Avatars also possess the unique ability to use Energybending, though very few Avatars learned this technique, and even fewer have used it. Avatar Aang used it to remove Phoenix King Ozai's Firebending during "Sozin's Comet, Part 4: Avatar Aang".

Once the Avatar Masters the Four Elements, namely Air, Water, Earth and Fire, and also Masters the Avatar State he or she is commonly noted to be a 'Fully Realized Avatar'.
http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Avatar

Creating an Avatar
Avatar is an inherited template that can be added to any living creature with an Intelligence of 8+, a Wisdom of 14+, and a Charisma of 8+, hereafter referred to as the base creature. It uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

Avatar State:

Whenever the Avatar is in a position of great emotional or physical distress, she may involuntarily use a Destiny Point as a one-round action to enter the Avatar State. (If you are not using Destiny Points, the GM decides when the Avatar State may be entered.) This action completes immediately before the Avatar's next turn, and during the transition, the Avatar is flat-footed. Upon initiating this action, the Avatar begins glowing and affecting the local area with obvious manifestations of power, creating a fear aura. All creatures who can see the Avatar which are not immune to fear or mind-affecting abilities are unable to take any hostile actions against the Avatar or her allies. A creature may spend a Destiny Point as a reaction to shake off this fear effect.

Upon her next turn, the Avatar fully enters the Avatar State. In this form, her effective bender level, defenses, and attack bonus increase by ten. She is able to bend all elements, and as long as she has a sufficient quantity of these elements, she may apply the benefits of all subclasses of the Spiritual feat to every bending form she utilizes and all her melee attacks.

While in the Avatar state, the Avatar knows all forms which are not specific to a single element, and may use them at will, without ever completely expending her Bending Form Suite. Any forms which she has personally learned that are applicable to a single element remain in her knowledge and are likewise immediately returned to her Bending Form Suite immediately after she uses one.

The Avatar's body is controlled by the conglomeration of her previous lives in this state, who tend to act swiftly and mercilessly if they deem it necessary to protect the Avatar - though they will try to keep her personal desires in mind. If the Avatar wishes to override them, she must spend another Destiny Point to end the state early. If the Avatar chooses to end the Avatar State early, she does not take the usual penalty for the ability ending.

The Avatar State lasts for the duration of the encounter. After the encounter ends, the Avatar moves -3 steps on the condition track immediately, as a persistent condition that cannot be removed except through 8 hours of rest.

If the Avatar is killed after initiating the Avatar State, even if it has not finished activation, then the Avatar Cycle is broken.

Destiny Points: The Avatar gains two Destiny Points a level, rather than one, provided you are using this mechanic.

Many Lives: The previous fragments of your soul watch over you from the depths of your heart, providing you with insight and advice. These fragments cannot be summoned directly, but appear when they are needed, though you may be able to request their insight. Typically their stays are brief, but as the Avatar's strength grows, so too do her connections to her past lives, allowing them to remain longer. Should the Avatar find her way to the Spirit World somehow, her past lives can manifest themselves fully. Generally, the incarnation of the Avatar directly preceding the current Avatar will have the strongest bond to the present form, due to being more recently tied to the current events of the world.

Spirit in Flesh: The Avatar always qualifies for the Spiritual and Open-Minded feats.

Challenge Level: Same as base creature +7.

AstralFire
2009-07-25, 08:54 PM
Running commentary changelog:

7/26/09, 12:27 AM EST
Use the Force as a skill has its own issues, which is why I'm not using a modeling of it in my adaptation here. But I like the cleanness of the powers and their easy integration into other stuff. Right now my design goal is to make it so that using a mixture of the smaller attacks - martial hits and 'bending blasts' - is a suitable way to go rather than defaulting to overspecialization into forms or melee. It's -very- tricky since the name of the game is specialization, but I think I'm hitting on something here. Ideally all three will be roughly equal.

What I'm doing at the moment is trying to make their basic melee attack do double duty as ranged and melee, so the bending powers are reserved for an amazing show of AoE damage, penetrating damage, or acrobatics. You have to put in such a heavy feat and talent investment to use them regularly that you're limiting the number of really cool out of combat things you can do with Saga - this is aided by the fact that most bender powers are inherently martial.

So what I'm saying is, hopefully when I'm done, Prince Zuko and Azula will have roughly the same chance of winning at equal levels against one another. However, Azula would be able to keep punching out wins one after another, while Zuko would run out of neat parlor tricks, but would have a bevy of non-combat benefits to pick up his slack, while also being better once both have run out of gas on their special tricks (to aid in this, I may change the definition of encounter to an hour, as a nice balance between per day and per fight). And ideally at the same level, Ty Lee and Sokka would do just as well against them, but examining the melee system's feat and talent trees is gonna be a lot of work in and of itself, so that's later on my list.

7/26/09, 5:51 PM EST
Alright, I believe most of the abilities on the show are now represented (though they may need retweaking) via talents and bender forms. Next up is work on the classes and martial talents.

The ideal actions for orthodox benders as I'm seeing it should be such:
Air - Attack all the way or move all the way. Run until you're in a battlefield ideal for your fighting.
Earth - Stand in one place, attack hard. Opportunistically strike, but never get out of the thick of battle.
Fire - Attack -and- move every round. Deny the opponent ground and give chase when they run.
Water - Defend, slowly moving to suit the battle. Attack right after the opponent does.

My earlier work with dman focused on pushing waterbenders to attack via AoOs primarily, which I feel should be allowed, but does not fit with the professed waterbender philosophy, hence why Waterbending now has Active Defense (formerly earthbending), while Earthbending grabbed Grasp of the Earth (formerly waterbending as 'Tentacles'.)

Each bending tree has one talent which is at its best in the hands of a bender of the opposing philosophy. I did not put such caveat boosts in for benders of complementary philosophies, because they already seem to do so - for example, Earth and Water sync up well for AoO builds (aforementioned talents + Guard), while Water and Air are natural fits for someone who never wants to be hit ever (waveform+evasive defenses). Air and Fire are obvious partners for a mobility combatant (Shadow of the Wind, Firestorm and Dancing Flames), while Fire and Earth seem to work well for a frontline striker (Phoenix, Coronal Flare, Guard, Solid Rock).

7/27/09, 2:43 PM
Alright... converting a number of the less bender and more martialy elemental talents into feats.

Class work and prestige class work is going up there. The Sifu prestige class is a hybrid between Jedi Knight and Jedi Master, since I don't believe in adding a second prestige class that's a more advanced version of a previous one.

Going with a 'no bender class' policy, as well as a 'no bender prestige class' - as bending is an outgrowth of martial arts, the two are intricately tied.

Bending longer than a swift action now provokes an attack of opportunity, giving a reason for the battlefield to constantly switch its size, and added feats for those people who want to bend large amounts at melee range. This substantially weakens Puppet, so I improved Puppet somewhat to compensate, as well as to trim the forest of talents slightly.

7/27/09, 7:36 PM EST
Is there a particular reason my big projects never seem to attract much attention? Do I smell or something?

Running commentary changelog created.

Anyway, the Avatar class' framework is now up. The Avatar State itself should be a fairly easy model because, well, I don't have to worry about even trying to make it balanced. It's a plot power. It breaks the 7th level minimum for PrCs, in part because it's not actually that powerful as they go.

Regional differences implemented into the Spiritual feat. Considered making Sun Warriors different from Fire Nation there, but they differ in philosophy of attack, not what they actually bend - and that would have left air lonely as the odd man out, anyway. Air's often kind of neglected since Aang was one of a kind, so we didn't get to see variant abilities so much.

7/28/09, 10:37 PM
New talent for Elite Troopers is up.
Minor tweaks to the Avatar class are up.
Changed the talent trees available to the Sifu.
Avatar Template is up.
Spiritual (Air) underwent a buff.
Weapons are beginning work. I borrowed the idea of accuracies from 4E; this is partially to balance out that I have to account for shields, which Saga did not. Martial Arts feats got a boost so they can keep pace, and ate the Bending Focus feats. The Boomerang is not statted yet; Boomerang, Hook Swords, Meteor Hammers need statting as exotic weapons, and considering putting in a gun exotic weapon considering the level of tech present in the show around the firebenders. Mai's Stilettos I'm seeing as crossbows that have been tinkered with; part of my purpose in tackling weapons now is so that I can do the equivalent of the Tech Specialist feat.

I will also be doing 'races' - well, I guess it is actually races rather than species for once - with the various nations. Different languages are almost certainly getting tossed out. However, unique to Avatar of any system I have ever seen - I hope to actually be using different currencies. This will have to come after I have rechecked all of the relevant feats in SWSE.

And as a last note:
Zuko continues to be the biggest challenge for modeling anything in this system. He is a complete hybrid. Melee and bending equally, uses weapons and unarmed with fairly equal proficiency, frontliner who also is very good at stealth. He is making me work to give mechanical reasons for having such an unusual mix of fighting styles - but I think I'm working something out.

7/29/09, 9:58 PM
Alright, so far not much work done today, considering a number of options available to me. There are two new talents available for Scoundrels at the moment, though.

In order to make the Spiritual Training feat less erratic in its usefulness, it now grants a flat value of 3 forms. In order to keep Wisdom relevant to bending, Wisdom now grants you a boost to your effective bender level equal to your Wisdom modifier. The Bending Specialization talents are removed - they're very hard to fit into most builds anyway, and I don't want someone breaking something by just dumping everything into maxing out a bender level.

So Wisdom determines the strength of your bending, and Charisma determines the effectiveness of your projection power with bending.

In order to keep Will saves useful in a game with no Jedi, I am looking at mimicing the Bending Form model with a Social Trick model, with abilities like 'Terrorize', 'Seduce' (Get your head out of the gutter!), etc. I have a long-standing interest in trying to make social combat interesting mechanically in d20, and this may be a way to do it; but this is going to need some more thought. I wouldn't be surprised to see an 'Emotional Threshold.' I would like to get this working soon, as I feel it is a much more balanced solution than just handing out Energybending willy-nilly and breaking the feel of the show for the sake of a balanced gameworld.

I'm thinking that for basic things, the skills will be relevant, rather than just ripping three more skills out. But if you want to demonstrate and perform combat and morale effects of social combat within the context of rounds, you'd need social tricks. If you just want to diplomacy a trade agreement, roll your Persuasion check; if you want to make someone doubt if anything they've ever known was real and have it have a combat effect? Tricks.

I think it won't use hit points; emotional damage below the threshold isn't sufficient to bring someone down within a matter of rounds which is the important part being tracked here.

8/01/09, 9:12 PM
There, there's the first draft of the Rhetoric System, along with a heck of a lot of new noble and scoundrel talents and some text clean-up in weapons. We have our first three exotic weapons; I'm trying to focus them on giving utility benefits, moreso than being better than a specific weapon they're based off of.

8/02/09, 9:41 AM
Armor and Shields up with two shield feats (Shield Wall and Shield Slam). Shields are modeled as dodge bonuses to more accurately convey the active nature of their usage. Armor has half the ACP it does in Star Wars Saga for similar reasons. Soldiers lost Armor Proficiency (medium) because this system is not relying on pricing as a major restriction, so if someone wants to start out with the beefy Ceremonial Plate, they're going to have to spend both starting feats on it.

8/02/09, 2:10 PM
Playing around with the armor section. Changed the second bonus of an armor to Damage Threshold rather than Fortitude, because let's be honest - how the hell does a suit of armor protect you against a disease? :smallconfused:

Considering simply allowing heroic level to stack with armor without further talents if you have proficiency, as I've made it more difficult to get up to heavy and all armors are not as strong as they used to be.

Light armor imposes -2 ACP just as medium does now. There's a reason the characters don't go about in armor all the time. Sokka's the only one with training in one anyway, of the main cast.

8/02/09, 5:34 PM
Spirit Talker feat removed; instead, a new skill is added, Attunement. It's a martial arts fantasy staple skill, even though it does not appear in Avatar (Guru Patchik maybe?). Also has a corresponding new feat, Sense Atman. Deception picked up an additional usage to combat this new skill. Additional new feat added, Channel the River of Souls; it will make a little more sense when I formally insert the spirit point regeneration system.

Lots of retweaking done to armor so that it isn't as overwhelming at first level.

8/02/09, 7:45 PM
Pistol added (you have zeppelins and tanks - I don't think it's unreasonable as an exotic), new talent added to Sifu, Sifu given different entrance requirements. Attunement given a new usage. Extra feats or skills added to all classes to compensate for things lost or feats less useful in this environment.

Looking at using the Yin-Yang system as part of this game's 'alignment', though it will have no mechanical benefit aside from being able to read someone's yin-yang composition with Attunement. Passive is not going to equal good at all.

Water is max Yin (passivity), Fire is max Yang (aggressiveness). Earth is passive-aggressive - baiting you, making the conditions favorable. Air is aggressive-passive - running until such a time as conditions are favorable. As there is Yin in Yang and Yang in Yin, none of these are absolutes, and Bumi's particular style of waiting actually runs similar to Air's in some ways, for example.

Not yet used
Empty spots:

Not yet used
Empty spots:

jmbrown
2009-07-25, 09:46 PM
Interesting. I didn't expect someone to use Star Wars as a base for an Avatar setting. I've been working on and off a setting based on Mutants and Masterminds. You wouldn't feel like I was stepping on your toes if I posted it in the near (by near I mean far far far) future, would you?

AstralFire
2009-07-25, 09:50 PM
I would welcome it; this is an outgrowth of the work the brilliant gameologist community and I did (http://theanteheroes.com/Avatar%20d20/BendingChapter.pdf) last year with the GitP community project for Avatar (http://avatar.d20.googlepages.com/) to begin with; it'd be a little hypocritical of me to go "RAR MY PONY." I'm afraid I'm not very familiar with Mutants and Masterminds, though. Just can't seem to pick up the book to get into it.

While I've been proud of the work we did there, I've always felt that the take I worked on - I did the groundwork for the augment mechanics in the 'Last d20 Supplement' variant - was mechanically sound, but far too clunky for play. This is my attempt to rectify that using a familiar system that I think works a little better.

jmbrown
2009-07-25, 10:37 PM
MnM handles the ridiculous physics breaking powers of Avatar better than standard d20 but the class base system is familiar to more people. I never played a previous version of Star Wars but I do like how powers are handled in a cleaner fashion than the standard spell-like/supernatural ability. I liken the Use Force check to being concentration where the harder you focus the more powerful your attacks get something like psions but not quite so obtuse.

AstralFire
2009-07-27, 06:36 PM
Is there a particular reason my big projects never seem to attract much attention? Do I smell or something?

Running commentary changelog created.

Anyway, the Avatar class' framework is now up. The Avatar State itself should be a fairly easy model because, well, I don't have to worry about even trying to make it balanced. It's a plot power. It breaks the 7th level minimum for PrCs, in part because it's not actually that powerful as they go.

Regional differences implemented into the Spiritual feat. Considered making Sun Warriors different from Fire Nation there, but they differ in philosophy of attack, not what they actually bend - and that would have left air lonely as the odd man out, anyway. Air's often kind of neglected since Aang was one of a kind, so we didn't get to see variant abilities so much.

Lert, A.
2009-07-27, 11:49 PM
Is there a particular reason my big projects never seem to attract much attention? Do I smell or something?

Just a lot to go through. Haven't had too much time to look through it all.

15 level prestige class? That's different.

AstralFire
2009-07-27, 11:54 PM
Just a lot to go through. Haven't had too much time to look through it all.

15 level prestige class? That's different.

There are a handful of them in D&D, and if you want to grab everything that it means to be an Avatar and remain balanced, you have to have a slow progression. I just didn't see any reason an Avatar shouldn't be -able- to grab all of the iconic Avatar abilities if they got all the way to 20th level - and my assumption is that Avatars get to 20th level and just about no one else does, usually.

And thank you for the response. I'm narcissistic and vain. I appreciate it. :D

Lert, A.
2009-07-28, 10:43 PM
My biggest drawback is that I am just getting into Avatar, so I'm not so sure about the canonical accuracy. Balance-wise it looks good.

Only sticking-point I see right now is that the Soldier class is getting to be better than the other classes.

Noble: -1 Feat, gets access to new talent
Scoundrel: -1 Feat, 2 fewer talent trees
Scout : -2 +1 = -1 Feat, fewer skills
Soldier: -2 +3 = +1 Feat, no other drawbacks

Things will likely change as your conversion progresses, but for now the Soldier wins out at 1st level.

AstralFire
2009-07-28, 10:52 PM
Scoundrel needs a definite buff and I'll be looking into that more. At the moment, the Scoundrel class doesn't have a strong definition since I'm throwing stuff at the system around simulating the main cast, who are Scouts, Soldiers and Nobles. I'm tossing around some ideas like making it more into a Thug. I've pinned Mai as a Scoundrel, but I'm not sure anyone else fits. Possibly Toph, as the other three don't. If you have some ideas, I'll gladly take 'em. Jet probably has a few.

The thing with Soldier that's tricky is I'm trying to make sure it's desirable as a level 1 class rather than dipping something else for a lot of skills and hopping over at only 1 BAB lost. There is the Hit Point difference, though.

EDIT: Possibly will be reintroducing Sleight of Hand as a skill to make up for Use Computer.

Draz74
2009-07-28, 11:54 PM
Is there a particular reason my big projects never seem to attract much attention? Do I smell or something?


Unless you're Fax, no one has much time to review anyone's homebrews but their own.
Mine always fall into the same category. If you need new deodorant, I do too. :smallfrown:
Avatar's getting more popular, but a lot of people still don't know anything about it. I'm a fan of it, but I haven't seen it repeatedly enough to have memorized all the abilities an RPG system should include.
I, for one, know very little about the Saga system.

AstralFire
2009-07-29, 12:02 AM
Saga is D&D 3.5 with the power scaling from 3 to 8 stretched out and made the rate of power increase from 1 to 20 (level 20 Saga characters themselves are meant to be roughly equal to... I'd say level 12-13 in D&D), skills that work like 4E, and a combat system that is a bit more lethal and allows for an emphasis on 'burst' damage for our blasty types, with spells and charts that are mostly simplified. Almost the entire game is based around feat shrubs - small chains of feats that complement one another, giving you a lot more freedom and modularity to make builds than 3E did.

Why yes, I do like the system, why do you ask? :D

I seriously recommend taking a look, even if you don't enjoy Star Wars. I think it's a much better base for the low and medium magic d20 spinoffs than anything else so far.

Draz74
2009-07-29, 12:26 AM
I seriously recommend taking a look, even if you don't enjoy Star Wars. I think it's a much better base for the low and medium magic d20 spinoffs than anything else so far.

Heh. I do like Star Wars, and I know it's a decent system. It's just that whole money thing. I don't have $25 to spend on a system that I'll probably never actually play. I'm totally game to kife good mechanics out of the system for my own homebrew, though.


Saga is D&D 3.5 with the power scaling from 3 to 8 stretched out and made the rate of power increase from 1 to 20 (level 20 Saga characters themselves are meant to be roughly equal to... I'd say level 12-13 in D&D),
Huh, this I did not know.


skills that work like 4E,
Yeah, I knew that. Ewww. :smallyuk:


and a combat system that is a bit more lethal and allows for an emphasis on 'burst' damage for our blasty types, with spells and charts that are mostly simplified.
Right, the combat system has that whole HP + Condition Track + Damage Threshold schtick. Which I've heard makes Fortitude Saves much too important compared to the other two.

I've also heard some Saga players express that the magic (er, "Force") system is "functional, but not my favorite part of the system." Is that a widely held opinion?


Almost the entire game is based around feat shrubs - small chains of feats that complement one another, giving you a lot more freedom and modularity to make builds than 3E did.
Right. This is the part that, despite my having studied Saga when I could, I don't know nearly well enough to be able to judge the balance of your Avatar homebrew. :smallwink:

AstralFire
2009-07-29, 12:37 AM
Fort saves are a little too important (but only a little and it's easily rectified by throwing on some more important stuff on Reflex and Will) and right now I'm worried Will is going to be too marginal in this conversion, to the point that I'm actively grooming the thought of making Energybending just another type of bender, albeit a very rare one. There's precious little I can justify to myself as a Will effect on the bender front.

The Force Power system is very good. The Force Power scaling is kinda bad; it works on the skill system, which I think is great for modeling NPCs and players who are competent at their job at 1st level, but was not intended to be scaling directly against the defenses. The end result is that a force-power focused Jedi starts out incredibly OP at low levels and evens out. I nip this in the bud here and I have easy to implement houserules in SWSE (link in sig) that do the same there.

The only big issue with the Force Power system is that getting forms is a terrible pain if you're on low point buy and trying to make a gish Jedi. I suspect that was an intentional limitation for the above OP issues. I'm currently examining removing the Wis part of the equation for grabbing Force Powers/Bender forms; the issue is looking at where I can make it relevant elsewhere. I'm trying to juggle what amount of point buy this game should assume is default.

Knaight
2009-07-30, 05:33 AM
I'm liking this personally. The way the weapons work is very well done, and the current issue seems to be the will defense underuse more than anything else. The golem ability does not seem to cover its defenses, and cold fire is mentioned, but never actually shown.

Zuki
2009-07-30, 08:22 AM
'Cold Fire' is another word for lightning. Iroh mentions this briefly in Bitter Work, the episode where he teaches Zuko to deflect it.

Note that the power does electrical damage.

(Yeah, I think the weapons system is looking really snazzy, too.)

AstralFire
2009-07-31, 11:17 PM
Took a few days off to think and do other stuff. Tomorrow will bring the first work on the Social Tricks system; mostly I've been trying to determine the scope of what it should encompass.

Also, thank you for pointing out the issue with the golem, Knaight. I'll fix it to read that it shares the bender's defenses and is immune to attacks that target Will Defense. Glad you like the weapon system, I realized I was overdoing it at first when I spent two hours and I had roughly four different kinds of swords and two other weapons statted. Avoiding overdetail can be difficult...

endoperez
2009-08-01, 12:22 AM
The spirit world creatures would have various magical abilities that could force Will saves. Avatar can commune with them, other adventurers might have to actually fight them.

There are also some monsters that could force Will saves. Perhaps the huge sea-snakes and the platypus-bears and such would force Will saves or get combat penalties for several rounds, with differing DCs depending on the monster.

AstralFire
2009-08-01, 12:26 AM
This is also true, thank you for pointing that out - that will help me feel like I can take a little stress off of this psychological system, though I think it can turn out well. One of the expected abilities is something to cause enemies to run in fear from you, which may not do any HP damage, but...

AstralFire
2009-08-02, 11:43 PM
To-Do:

Monster stats for Badgermoles, Dragons, Sky Bisons, and... yeah, a lot of animals. But the difficult encounters first, including the spirit beasts.
Playtesting. I want to get optimizers in there making their best against characters from the show, who should be able to put up good fights at the least.
D&D 3.5 to Saga Edition translation kit, for people without Saga
More playtesting, monsters too.
Implement Yin-Yang alignment system.
PDF formatting.

Shades of Gray
2009-08-02, 11:52 PM
Suggestion:

Give swamp-dwellers and sand-dwellers extra Constitution, as it's difficult to survive there.
Air nomads should probably get either dexterity or wisdom.

AstralFire
2009-08-02, 11:58 PM
I was actually thinking along the lines of Conditional Bonus Feats rather than sheer stat bonuses, though I certainly agree that those two need something to represent the difficulty of living in the conditions they do. Aside from the always broken Humans (Humans are too good), I really enjoy how Saga does racial balancing. I like to describe the ability score differences as 'tendencies by choice' moreso than 'tendencies by genetics.'

AstralFire
2009-08-03, 01:08 PM
First draft of racial rules up for Air Nomads, Earthen, Fire Nation, Foggy Swamp Water Tribe, Polar Water Tribes, and Sun Warriors.

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 04:28 PM
Alright, I think it's about time that we got playtesters in here to see how well (or badly) this works. If you don't know Saga, that's okay. Here's a guide to help you out (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120487). With the additional rules here - as this is, itself, a modification of Saga with a number of custom rules - you should be able to create a character.

I'll be trying to make iconic characters with iconic builds at levels 1, 3, 7, 11, 15, and 20. You'll be trying to make the most broken things you possibly can at those levels - and we'll try to see if we can keep the iconics around a 40 to 60% winrate. If this system cannot adequately model the Gaang and their frequent antagonists with a minimum of optimization effort, then it has failed in its design goals.

Lert, A.
2009-08-04, 06:03 PM
Any area in particular that you want me to try to break? :smallbiggrin:

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 06:06 PM
Any area in particular that you want me to try to break? :smallbiggrin:

Any. Pick one of those levels and I'll try to make an iconic that can put up a good fight.

Characters I plan on testing with:

Level 1
Soldiers/Trainees

Level 3
Most of the minor benders, like THE BOULDER.

Levels 7 to 11
Aang, Katara, Sokka, Toph, Zuko, Mai, Ty Lee, Azula, Suki

Level 15-17
The Old Masters, Fire Lord Ozai

Level 20
Fully Realized Avatars (Roku and Kyoshi)

I'm limiting myself to iconics, though, and I won't be using the 'cheese powers' for any fully realized Avatars.

The exotic weapons presented, if you make a martial character, would be a good place to start looking.

Holocron Coder
2009-08-04, 06:39 PM
Wow. Definitely going to have to look this over. I always figured SAGA would be a great base for Avatar, seeing as we have the similarity to the Force going on.

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 06:58 PM
You're the first person to not go "huh, I didn't expect this!" Please let me know what you think. :smallsmile::smallsmile:

I think there are better systems out there for this, like FUDGE, but Saga's strong resemblance to D&D 3.5 at lower levels makes it easier to get people playing it, hence my emphasis on this here. I think what caught my eye most was how divorced they managed to make magic from martial combat or other skill if you so chose.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-04, 07:06 PM
Could you clarify on what sort of thing you want as playtesting?

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 07:09 PM
Anything, really. Build something, the biggest abuse of rules you can find or just a roleplay character (one that's still supposed to be effective), let me know what level it is, and I'll try and pit it against a same-level iconic in an arena. Would also like to do some work with dungeoncrawls, with pits and guards and traps. Putting Sokka in a one on one fistfight is unfair - he won't instadie if the system is done right, but he won't be winning most times - but if he can contribute to a variety of situations anyway, especially if he can lead a party and be an effective 'fifth man', I count that as a success.

A full bender, a wordsmith with a hidden weapon, a weapon master...

Lert, A.
2009-08-04, 07:21 PM
I'm almost ready with a "generalist" unarmed fighter/bender. What sort of point buy do you want?

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 07:28 PM
I'm almost ready with a "generalist" unarmed fighter/bender. What sort of point buy do you want?

32, should have said that. Avatar characters seem to need a little bit more because of the need for both strength and dexterity as martial artists. IF we end up with characters looking too samey, we'll pull back.

Mr.Moron
2009-08-04, 07:31 PM
I know nothing about nothing when it comes to this system or Avatar. However I like testing things. Maybe I missed it but how exactly is this playtest being done? By post, by electronic tabletop of some sort?

Zuki
2009-08-04, 07:32 PM
Hm. I'm pretty swamped with homework for the next three or four days, but I'd still like to try and put together some character concepts. I'll list them here, in case someone else would like to try and tackle them before I get around to it.

Anyone is free to borrow these concepts and try and make such characters for playtest. I may not get around to them, and if the system can support different interpretations of the same concept, that's a good thing.

A thief or street urchin type of character. A bender of some minor capacity (Air, Sand, or Earth), but primarily focused on getting by on the mean streets. I see this as a Scoundrel, with perhaps a bit of Scout for the mobility and skill selection.

An old man, an ex-Dai Li agent. He became disillusioned about his job or had the sense to get out of the position before Azula hit Ba Sing Se like a tornado in a trailerpark. Enjoys gardening in his spare time. Higher leveled, but not quite as bad-assed as the White Lotus members. A design goal is to see if I can replicate the Dai Li rock gauntlet earthbending tricks.

A gunslinger, probably a Fire Nation type since they seem most likely to develop the technology. I showed this system to my brother and he expressed concern that the pistol was 'too good'. I'd like to take 6 levels or so and trick out a pistoleer as best I can figure, and then we'll see if he was right or not.

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 07:41 PM
I know nothing about nothing when it comes to this system or Avatar. However I like testing things. Maybe I missed it but how exactly is this playtest being done? By post, by electronic tabletop of some sort?

Play by Post. I prefer to do RPing in real time, but playbypost is more convenient for me for playtesting. If you run a playtest by yourself and post the results, however, I'd be much obliged.

Lert, A.
2009-08-04, 08:37 PM
Not exacty hyper-optimized, but is adequate as a condition track killer. I present:

Billy von Flamefist
Earthen Soldier 7/Elite trooper 2
Init +11; Senses Perception+10

------------------------------------------------
Defenses Ref 28 (flat footed 19), Fort 27, Will 22
HP 94; DR 1; Threshold 32; delay damage
-------------------------------------------------
Speed 6 squares
Melee unarmed +16 (3d6+8 fire) damage threshold treated as 10 less, bypasses damage reduction and hardness, target catches fire if defense beat by 5 or more
Ranged + 11
Bending attack +17
Base Atk +9; Grp +11
--------------------------------------------------

Abilities Str 16, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 18
Talents (1) Melee Smash; (3) Stunning Strike; (5) Devastating Attack (simple); (7) Move Mass; (8) Greater Devastating Attack(simple)
Feats WP(simple, advanced), AP(light), MA1, (Conditional bonus feat) Improved Damage Threshold; (1)Spiritual(Fire; Universal talent: Deflect Attack ); (2) Toughness; (3) Spiritual Training; (4) MA2; (6) MA3, Spiritual Training; (9) Burn them down
Skills Endurance (+10), Initiative(+11), Perception (+10)
Bending forms Barrier, Cold Fire x2, Heatwave, Move Element, Rush
Possesions hobo clothes or something, teddy bear with sentimental value

AstralFire
2009-08-04, 08:41 PM
Alright. Give me some time to make someone at that level. I don't think we'll start up tonight, though, as I have things to do. Going to try avoiding looking at your stats just yet so I don't build a character designed to counter your tricks.

Lert, A.
2009-08-04, 08:48 PM
Alright. Give me some time to make someone at that level. I don't think we'll start up tonight, though, as I have things to do. Going to try avoiding looking at your stats just yet so I don't build a character designed to counter your tricks.

S'aright. I just made a last-moment correction and might have to make a couple more upon further review.

YPU
2009-08-05, 03:06 PM
I’ll be keeping an eye on this. I think that saga does have potential for avatar as well and always kinda liked saga myself. I might try breaking something later on, first I’ll need the tie to read it trough completely.

AstralFire
2009-08-05, 03:16 PM
Hmm, I think we're actually going to roll with 28 PB. If that forces you to change your build, then leave it at 32 for you, but 28 seems to describe most of the characters better.


I’ll be keeping an eye on this. I think that saga does have potential for avatar as well and always kinda liked saga myself. I might try breaking something later on, first I’ll need the tie to read it trough completely.

Thank you! Please let me know your thoughts.

AstralFire
2009-08-05, 04:51 PM
Katara (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=144695)

As most of the system was tested with eyeballed, quick-sketch versions of Zuko and Azula, I figure the bender I accounted for least - Katara - would be a good opening workout.

Here's the Arena:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6659313&posted=1#post6659313

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-05, 08:16 PM
What are Spirit Points, exactly, and how are they gained?

Be warned: this character carries a lot of weapons (thrower). I'm going to use D&D weights for the closest equivalent to these things I can find.

Song, Medium Earthen Scout 4/Soldier 2/Scoundrel 1/Bounty Hunter 1/Trick Thrower 1
Spirit Points: ??
Initiative: +14
Senses: Perception +9
──────────────────────────────────
Defenses: Reflex 30 (flat-footed 24), Fortitude 24, Will 21
Hit Points: 89 (Threshold 29)
──────────────────────────────────
Speed: 6 squares
Melee: Quick Weapon +10 (1d10+4)
Ranged: Quick Weapon +15 (1d10+9, 18 squares)
Ranged: Bow +14 (3d6+4, 60 squares)
Ranged: Crossbow +14 (3d6+4, 120 squares)
BAB/Grapple: +7/+12
Special Actions: Aim (-2 condition track on hit), Dastardly Strike, Indomitable
──────────────────────────────────
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 20, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 8
Special Qualities: Earth's Embrace, Stubborn
Talents: Acute Senses, Improved Initiative, Indomitable, Dastardly Strike, Hunter's Mark, Debilitating Shot
Feats: Improved Damage Threshold, Advanced Weapon Proficiency, Shake it Off, Far Shot x4, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Martial Arts I, Deadeye, Quick Draw
Skills: Endurance +12, Initiative +14 (reroll), Perception +9, Stealth +14, Survival +9
Possessions: Crossbow, 30 bolts, Bow, 40 arrows, 18 Butterfly Knives (total 54 lb=24.5 kg, unencumbered)

I can't start a playtest until Sunday, but this is my take on the condition track killer.

AstralFire
2009-08-05, 08:33 PM
Spirit Points are the reflavored version of Action Points/Force Points.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/actionPoints.htm

* They're called Force Points in SW Saga, and extensively integrated into the system. All uses listed here beyond rolling to improve a d20 result are not allowed.
* There's a super version of these called Destiny Points; they are not utilized in all games, and exist side by side with Force Points.

You'll be limited to a third of your max Spirit Points for these arena battles.

Lert, A.
2009-08-06, 12:35 AM
An uncomplicated example of a level 1 for future consideration.

Ginger (Dunestepper) Jones
Sandpeople Scout 1
Init +7; Perception +8

------------------------------------------------
Defenses Ref 15 (flat footed 13), Fort 14 (16 against extreme heat and cold), Will 14
HP 26 Threshold 14
-------------------------------------------------
Speed 8 squares
Melee +2 advanced quick weapon (1d10-1)
Ranged +5 thrown advanced quick weapon (1d10+2)
Ranged +4 advanced crossbow (3d6)
Base Atk 0; Grp -1
Effective Bender Level 4
--------------------------------------------------

Abilities Str 8, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 8
Talents (1) Long Stride
Feats WP(simple, advanced), Shake It Off, (Conditional bonus feat) Skill Training(Deception); (1) Strength of the Spirits
Skills Attunement (+8) Deception (+4) Endurance (+7), Initiative(+7), Perception (+8) Ride(+7) Stealth (+7) Survival (+8)
Possesions lots of advanced quick weapons, two loaded crossbows, bolts aplenty

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-06, 07:15 AM
Spirit Points are the reflavored version of Action Points/Force Points.


It was never explicitly stated. Do you recover Spirit Points per week, then? Channel the River of Souls seems to imply something.

Do PCs get Destinies? What about Backgrounds, like Rebellion Era Campaign Guide suggested?

Air Nomads are pacifists. Do they just use stun damage powers most of the time, then?

PS: Also, a new Sand Person soldier to consider.

Fighter, Medium Sandperson Scout 1
Spirit Points: 5
Initiative: +9
Senses: Perception +0
──────────────────────────────────
Defenses: Reflex 16 (flat-footed 13), Fortitude 14 (16 v. extreme temperature), Will 11
Hit Points: 26 (Threshold 14)
──────────────────────────────────
Speed: 8 squares
Melee: Quick Weapon +4 (1d10+1)
Ranged: Quick Weapon +6 (1d10+3, 6 squares)
Ranged: Bow +5 (3d6, 20 squares)
Ranged: Crossbow +5 (3d6, 40 squares)
BAB/Grapple: +0/+3
Rhetorical Suite: Imperious Presence x2, Spirit Crusher
──────────────────────────────────
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 14
Special Qualities: Desert Endurance, Sand Cloak
Talents: Long Stride
Feats: Advanced Weapon Proficiency, Shake it Off, Rhetorical Training, Skill Training (Deception)
Skills: Deception +7, Endurance +7, Initiative +8, Stealth +8
Possessions: Bow, Crossbow, Arrows, Advanced Quick Weapons

AstralFire
2009-08-06, 08:21 AM
It was never explicitly stated. Do you recover Spirit Points per week, then? Channel the River of Souls seems to imply something.

Yes, 1 a week. I haven't explicitly stated this here since there's no good place to put it, so I just left it as something to insert when I write the PDF.


Do PCs get Destinies? What about Backgrounds, like Rebellion Era Campaign Guide suggested?

Not for the playtest. These are optional rules that'll have trouble fitting a lot of these campaigns.


Air Nomads are pacifists. Do they just use stun damage powers most of the time, then?

That was my thought. -nods-

Lert, A.
2009-08-06, 12:26 PM
Since the first playtest is essentially over, I'll point out a few things that I noticed.

First of all, the fact that a combat-optimized character can put some serious hurt on a more squishy character if he gets into range is pretty much a foregone conclusion.

Of the actions that I used:

Rush - worked as well as expected.
Heatwave - OK, I loused that one up. Still looks like a good option as a Fort-targeting attack.
Burn Them Down (or as I called it, burn for me; it sounded catchy at the time and I didn't even notice that it was wrong for a long while) - A little split on this one. As I concentrated on the description I saw an apparent weakness in that you only have to attempt to hit, not successfuly hit. Unfortunately this one still seems a bit weak in that it can be shut down too easily as written. Suggest that 1) loophole be fixed and successful attacks only cause condition track damage; 2) concealment or cover only resets the round-counter. While this could possibly make the feat powerful in some circumstances, there are a few billion ways to gain cover or concealment.

Actions that I didn't use (and why):
Barrier - short range and a full round action together makes sad faces. :smallfrown: Originally I was hoping to create a barrier to prevent an escape, but that situation never came up since it is too easy to get enough distance to make it nearly ineffective for an offensive character. I also realized that "total length" doesn't cover whether or not a barrier had to be a line, an arc, or possibly encircling. Probably should be clarified, as well as a note that the barrier cannot be formed in an occupied square.
Move Element - this was originally going to be used in conjunction with barrier, shifting the flames into an attack. Fire seems hooped otherwise, needing to use a use of Move Element to start a fire, possibly attacking an opponent on fire, or a contrived source (though I get the fun image of a lit torch carried on a backpack frame just for random encounters).
Cold fire - just didn't get around to it. Still seems fine.
Move Mass - Still seems fine although it suffers some of the same drawbacks of Move Element(fire). I just wanted to try to throw a fireball grenade that tosses the opponent through the air.

On what AstralFire used:
Serenity - never had a chance to see how well it works.
Chaotic Spray - Only when I was getting attacked did I wonder what sort of Perception check would have to be made to notice Katara (I presumed a standard action). It also didn't list a duration of effect, so was Billy permanently blinded to everybody or was that for only the next round or something?

Not used by AstralFire:
Barrier - defensive, but could have slowed me down for a while. Couldn't do much with that extra time though, because of the concentration factor.
Puppet - could have done some nasty things to me, but having a full-round concentration and a short range makes it difficult to use without outside influence or convenient terrain.


That's about all that comes to mind at the moment. Hope it helps.

Mr.Moron
2009-08-06, 12:59 PM
This is all new so it may take me a bit to find something I think I can break, or at least try to break. I'll have something in a couple days hopefully.

YPU
2009-08-06, 01:01 PM
Barrier is pretty much the epitome of a battlefield control power, and control powers get stronger as the number of enemies goes up. The more people need to move around the more you can screw them with obstacles. So in a duel, probably not that useful, in a larger scale battle tough.
I think puppet should be more a last resort defensive power rather then a strong offensive action. It was originally created to escape a prison and that’s what its good at, surprising and completely annihilating targets who do not expect an attack without exposing the user (to much)

Perhaps a co-op playtest against a larger number of enemies would be in order? I would suggest fire nation soldiers as they seem to get beaten up together often enough.

Knaight
2009-08-06, 01:21 PM
I think there are better systems out there for this, like FUDGE, but Saga's strong resemblance to D&D 3.5 at lower levels makes it easier to get people playing it, hence my emphasis on this here. I think what caught my eye most was how divorced they managed to make magic from martial combat or other skill if you so chose.

It is actually a bit hard to model in Fudge, I was having trouble figuring out how to work everything. Eventually I got it cooperating, but it wasn't particularly intuitive. Still, I'm not as good at getting the system to cooperate as some.

AstralFire
2009-08-06, 02:46 PM
Thanks for the analysis, Lert!

One thing I should make clearer is that firebenders can make fire with any of their abilities. A firebender only can't when they're in cold conditions, and the phoenix talent negates that. I never wrote that out since that kind of stuff gets cumbersome in a thread stretched to its limit, was going to put it in the PDF since it was originally just an RP restriction.

I may extend it to make it also hold true if they've been hit by cold damage within the last round.

Barrier should probably get a bigger range; I think YPU's right that it's only fair to test that in large scale combat. Katara should have done better in one on one than she did, though, and I need to look at how to improve that without making her sacrifice abilities that she took in the show.

Ronnoc
2009-08-07, 01:35 AM
quick question the ignite talent does not list a duration for how long the flames last. Do they last until the end of encounter or should a duration be added?

AstralFire
2009-08-07, 08:06 AM
quick question the ignite talent does not list a duration for how long the flames last. Do they last until the end of encounter or should a duration be added?

It should be to the end of the encounter.

Doc Roc
2009-08-07, 12:09 PM
Holy crap-holy crap-holy crap, do you still have a slot?

AstralFire
2009-08-07, 12:23 PM
Holy crap-holy crap-holy crap, do you still have a slot?

I still have plenty. :smallsmile: We haven't made a party, we're just doing isolated duels for now. I'm still thinking on how to 'fix' backline benders like Katara.

YPU
2009-08-07, 12:34 PM
Perhaps we should try and take a que from the series here?
What does Katara do that makes here a equal opponent in one on one bender battles? Can you do that enough in this system. Etz.

AstralFire
2009-08-07, 06:27 PM
Changes:
Martial Arts I-III nerfed heavily. However, you gain their benefits in armor now. A fully focused bender was a little too accurate and hard-hitting, I think.
Barrier's range doubled. I don't think 60 feet is out of the question of what we can see with that sort of thing, and I prefer that to making it bend faster.
Chaotic Spray renamed Elemental Spray and given an additional function. By making it a swift action, you can get a second chance to activate your element's Spiritual benefit a round, like waterbenders need to keep their distance. Long range benders need to be able to move and do something. Air doesn't get much of a benefit from the additional function, but their Gust attack already gains that kind of benefit.
Waveform: No longer gets chipped away on iteratives. A flat +5 bonus is much less powerful, even if more reliable, than rolling a Use the Force to deflect.
New Fire text:
When you're on fire from a natural source, such as a torch, the fire makes an attack against your reflex defense at the end of every round. Success deals 1d6 fire damage. Failure means the fire is extinguished. A typical fire has a +5 bonus on the attack roll; unusual fires may have higher and deal more damage on a successful attack. Fires caused by a bending form use the originator's total bending attack bonus instead, and the fire deals additional damage equal to the originator's Wisdom modifier. When a creature moves one step up the condition track by any means, it automatically extinguishes the flames.

That lowers the speed of damage output and accuracy a little, which I think was the largest source of the issues. Deflect Attack being a flat modifier prevented it from being of any use with such a large difference between attack and reflex.

Reverent-One
2009-08-07, 06:32 PM
Changes:
Martial Arts I-III nerfed heavily. However, you gain their benefits in armor now. A fully focused bender was a little too accurate and hard-hitting, I think.

I haven't been able to look through fully, but from what I saw, this is a good idea. BTW, Martial Arts III still requires no armor or shield.

I'll probably be making up a playtest character myself before long. This all looks really cool.

AstralFire
2009-08-07, 06:35 PM
I haven't been able to look through fully, but from what I saw, this is a good idea. BTW, Martial Arts III still requires no armor or shield.

I'll probably be making up a playtest character myself before long. This all looks really cool.

Oh, thanks for the catch. :smallsmile:

Glad you like, let me know if you have questions.

That reminds me, I have a PM I meant to answer from Ronnoc! -runs off-

Lert, A.
2009-08-07, 07:10 PM
I'm curious if you are planning on expanding/altering the rhetorical techniques section any time soon. I'm thinking of making either a level 4/5 or possibly a 10/11 that has a stronger focus on laying down the smack talk but if there are any changes forthcoming I'll hold off for a while.

AstralFire
2009-08-07, 07:13 PM
Last I had looked, I hadn't come up with anything else that didn't feel contrived or feel to be robbing too much from the basic uses of the skills. I'll take a look in a bit, doing some work for Tareea right now.

AstralFire
2009-08-07, 11:26 PM
Yeah, at the moment I can't think of anything else to add to Rhetoric. If you come up with something, however, feel free to suggest it.

AgentPaper
2009-08-07, 11:51 PM
While I've yet to give the system a really good look-over, I'm a big fan of the Avatar world (the show is great, but more because of it's awesome setting than it's story) and have heard good things about the Saga Edition rules. Consider me signed up as a playtester.

My only concern is as to whether I need access to Star Wars: Saga Edition sourcebooks and such to be able to do anything with the system, seeing as to how I don't have them. :smallfrown:

AstralFire
2009-08-07, 11:57 PM
Heya, welcome board. :smallsmile:

To get the most out of the system, you will need the core rulebook for SWSE, but you can build a bender specialist Soldier pretty easily. It's essentially a Fighter, so your bonus feat list would resemble a Fighter's. You'd get bender talents on odd levels, class bonus feats on evens. 3+Int Skill Points. Just pick whatever you want for them; the Soldier does have a limited list of skills, but you'd be working with a handicap in not being able to select some of their nice non bendery talents.

AgentPaper
2009-08-08, 12:40 AM
One question. If for example I were to have my character be from the Fire Nation, would I then be able to have that character be an Earth bender?

Belobog
2009-08-08, 12:46 AM
Count me in on those parties who are interested, but do not actually know how to play or know anything about the setting past three scattered episodes. Your 'Step into Star Wars' topic in your sig, is very helpful combating one of these, at least.

AstralFire
2009-08-08, 09:14 AM
One question. If for example I were to have my character be from the Fire Nation, would I then be able to have that character be an Earth bender?

It's something that should be exceptionally rare; we're talking like, this happens once a generation at best. But it's not mechanically banned in the system.


Count me in on those parties who are interested, but do not actually know how to play or know anything about the setting past three scattered episodes. Your 'Step into Star Wars' topic in your sig, is very helpful combating one of these, at least.

Avatar Wikia (http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Avatar_Wiki) may help with some of the others. :smallsmile: Welcome aboard.

Knaight
2009-08-08, 10:21 AM
If there is still space I'm interested. I know the system decently, but not particularly well, and know the setting fairly well, but haven't gone into it more than just watching the episodes. But I also tinker around with rules sets a lot, and do know 3.5 decently.

However, I really don't know what my schedule is going to look like for the next year or so, so I might have difficulty making every game if I do get in.

AstralFire
2009-08-08, 10:54 AM
There probably will not be any playtest sessions for a while, focusing on PbP arenas for now.

When someone has a character they want to try out, just post it here or let me know, and I'll make up a character to combat you. Katara needs another swing, I don't think I want to actually change her feats and skills - they seem pretty accurate to the show, for me.

AgentPaper
2009-08-08, 12:38 PM
It's something that should be exceptionally rare; we're talking like, this happens once a generation at best. But it's not mechanically banned in the system.

So, at least two in each party of 4 adventurers, then? :smalltongue:

Seems like the perfect thing for me to try and test, then. Also, what about bending multiple elements? For example a fire nation resident who bends earth and water? :smallamused:

Oh, and: (Professor Voice) Good news everyone! Turns out that the SW tabletop book my friend lent me a while ago is a Saga edition book, so I do have the sourcebook to work with! Also Fry is fired. Out of a cannon.

AstralFire
2009-08-08, 12:41 PM
So, at least two in each party of 4 adventurers, then? :smalltongue:

Hehe, pretty much. Still, given that this is a show, I expect most games to have players trying to stick closer to canon. I do have this weird itch to see if I can extend the system at higher levels (11 to 20) to play Golden Sun psynergy adepts, though. That's for a supplement, though.


Seems like the perfect thing for me to try and test, then. Also, what about bending multiple elements? For example a fire nation resident who bends earth and water? :smallamused:

Bending multiple elements is only possible by taking the Avatar Prestige Class, which has a few elements that are broken - impossible, IMO, to fix some of them, and they're listed as such - but should be mostly playable.

Lert, A.
2009-08-08, 12:45 PM
I think these are the squishiest characters that I have ever made.


Rebel Princess Buttercup
Air Nomad Noble 1/Scoundrel 6/Crime Lord 4
Init +13; Perception +11
------------------------------------------------
Defenses Ref 29(flat footed 26), Fort 22, Will 29
HP 57 Threshold 22; command cover
-------------------------------------------------
Speed 6 squares
Melee +11 hand axe (2d6+4)
Ranged +14 crossbow (3d6+5)
Base Atk +9; Grp +8
--------------------------------------------------
Abilities Str 8, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 18
Talents (N1) Inspire Confidence; (S1) Fool's Luck; (S3) Knack; (S5) Sneak Attack; (CL1) Impel Ally I; (CL2) Impel Ally II; (CL3) Inspire Fear I; (CL4) Attrack Minion
Feats WP(simple), Skill Focus(Persuasion); (L1) Rhetorical Training; (S1) Point Blank Shot; (S2) Skill Focus(Deception); (L3) Rhetorical Training; (S4) Precise Shot; (L6) Improved Defenses; (S6) Deadeye ; (L9) WP(advanced)
Skills Deception(+19) Gather Information(+14) Initiative(+13) Perception(+11) Persuasion(+19) Treat Injury(+11)
Rhetorical techniques Command, False Bravado, Fear, Moment of Weakness x2, Spirit Crusher
Possesions crossbow, bolts, cinnamon bud headdress, hand axe



Meatshield
Earthen Nonheroic 8
Init +10; Perception +3
------------------------------------------------
Defenses Ref 17 (flat footed 16), Fort 11 , Will 11
HP 30 Threshold 20
-------------------------------------------------
Speed 3 squares
Melee +11 war axe(3d6+6)
Ranged +9 advanced leverage weapon (3d6+6)
Base Atk +6; Grp +8
--------------------------------------------------
Abilities Str 16, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 9, Cha 8
Feats AP(Light, Medium), Skill Training(Initiative), Conditional Bonus Feat(Improved Damage Threshold); (1) WP(advanced); (3) AP(heavy); (6) Power Attack
Skills Endurance (+10) Initiative (+10)
Possesions Full Plate, picture book, advanced leverage ranged weapon, ammo for said weapon, War axe

AgentPaper
2009-08-08, 12:46 PM
Bending multiple elements is only possible by taking the Avatar Prestige Class, which has a few elements that are broken - impossible, IMO, to fix some of them, and they're listed as such - but should be mostly playable.

So, they're broken and we shouldn't even try to playtest them into usability? Or we should try to break the hell out of it first, to try and get it at least closer to acceptable?

Lert, A.
2009-08-08, 12:47 PM
So, they're broken and we shouldn't even try to playtest them into usability? Or we should try to break the hell out of it first, to try and get it at least closer to acceptable?

I like this part, right here.

AstralFire
2009-08-08, 12:51 PM
So, they're broken and we shouldn't even try to playtest them into usability? Or we should try to break the hell out of it first, to try and get it at least closer to acceptable?

There's only two talents this applies to. Power of the Avatar is unfair for the Arena, I think, but give it a shot. Should be okay in a campaign. Apotheosis is really more for the GM's benefit - I don't see any way to put restrictions on it and have it actually be a fair modeling of what a fully realized avatar is supposed to be able to do.

@Lert - I love the names. :smallbiggrin:

AgentPaper
2009-08-08, 01:26 PM
Hmm, when it says the minimum character level is 7, does that mean I can take the first level of that class at 7, or 8? I'm guessing 8, but I just want to be sure.

AstralFire
2009-08-08, 01:28 PM
Hmm, when it says the minimum character level is 7, does that mean I can take the first level of that class at 7, or 8? I'm guessing 8, but I just want to be sure.

The latter (8). Class level is the first thing decided at level up.

AgentPaper
2009-08-08, 02:27 PM
Ok, almost done with my build, but one more question: What exactly does Advanced Weapon Proficiency do? Does it just allow you to used the advanced versions of all weapons? There doesn't seem to be a description of it anywhere.

AstralFire
2009-08-08, 02:30 PM
Pretty much.

Also as a head's up, am currently considering adding a Bending Form with the following effects:

Earth: Earth Glide (basically, a traceless burrow.)

At the moment, I can't think of any Air/Fire/Water abilities that really need to get covered.

AgentPaper
2009-08-08, 02:48 PM
Okay, one more question, not vital, but something I'm not sure how works out. I have Imp Second Skin, and am wearing Lamellar armor and using a Buckler. Do I add 1 to my reflex defense twice, once for the buckler and once for the lamellar? Or just once, since I'm wearing armor I'm proficient in? It doesn't matter for my character, since I have to cut it in half to 3 either way. (Improved Armored Defense)

AstralFire
2009-08-08, 02:53 PM
Oh, damnit, I never got around to clarifying that, did I? I need to work out something to do with IAD/AD, because by default I made armors stack with heroic level. They give less of a bonus in the first place, even with shields (once weapon accuracies are added in), than they did in SW Saga.

For now, I would skip the armor related talents until I figure out what to do with them. @_@

AgentPaper
2009-08-08, 03:08 PM
Oh, damnit, I never got around to clarifying that, did I? I need to work out something to do with IAD/AD, because by default I made armors stack with heroic level. They give less of a bonus in the first place, even with shields (once weapon accuracies are added in), than they did in SW Saga.

For now, I would skip the armor related talents until I figure out what to do with them. @_@

Hmm, well I guess I could, but the only other talent in the soldier's list that helps me is Expert Grappler. The rest technically helpful, but I'd much much rather have talents that help out my defenses.

Anyways, Armor Mastery and Second Skin are probably fine, it's just the Armored Defense and Improved Armored Defense skills that need fixing, I guess. Though Second Skin could use clarifying as to how it works when you have armor and a shield.

AstralFire
2009-08-08, 03:22 PM
Hmm, well I guess I could, but the only other talent in the soldier's list that helps me is Expert Grappler. The rest technically helpful, but I'd much much rather have talents that help out my defenses.

Anyways, Armor Mastery and Second Skin are probably fine, it's just the Armored Defense and Improved Armored Defense skills that need fixing, I guess. Though Second Skin could use clarifying as to how it works when you have armor and a shield.

It would only work with armor.

Shevarash's_Son
2009-08-08, 03:26 PM
very interested in playtesting, what about waterbenders with no water or earthbenders with no earth how would they funtcion I'm thinking of being a bloodbender, would it be possible to freeze someones blood:smallamused:

AstralFire
2009-08-08, 03:27 PM
very interested in playtesting, what about waterbenders with no water or earthbenders with no earth how would they funtcion I'm thinking of being a bloodbender, would it be possible to freeze someones blood:smallamused:

They would be a... uh... not-bender. o.O

Bloodbending is an option ('Puppet' for Waterbenders), though you can't specialize in it just yet.

AstralFire
2009-08-08, 05:38 PM
Transit (Earth, Water)
Action: Swift
Target: Self
Effect: Move up to your speed through or on top of your element. When burrowing through ice or earth, where you entered and exited the ground becomes quickly apparent under any examination, but the holes fill themselves in after you leave to make direct following difficult.

Blitz (Air, Fire)
Action: Full-round
Target: 6 square line originating from your square.
Effect: You make an ultrafast, focused attack against the Reflex Defense of all creatures within range. The attack's motion is highly telegraphed, so you take a -5 penalty to your attack roll with this move. Failure against a target allows them to jump out of the way; a success, however, is always a critical hit. Critical hits with this attack deal damage equal to twice your Bender Level.

Adding these to the list. Still not sure what to do for Armored Defense and Improved, though. If anyone has ideas for forms that can be shared Earth/Air or Fire/Water, or Earth/Fire, Air/Water, I'd appreciate it... though it seems that opposite element similarity has to come from talents and the other pairing so far seems to be talents/feats. So maybe the symmetry is fine.

Lert, A.
2009-08-08, 07:17 PM
I need to work out something to do with IAD/AD, because by default I made armors stack with heroic level. They give less of a bonus in the first place, even with shields (once weapon accuracies are added in), than they did in SW Saga.

Now I find out.

Buttercup originally was going to have lamellar. :smalltongue:

In other news, my meatshield (Meatshield) had 8 HP that I forgot to add into his build. Which means that he can take a full 2/3 of his total hitpoints without going down the condition track. He will still likely die quickly.

For the record, unless I missed it in later supplements there are no set guidelines for point-buy of non-heroics. After spending a long time checking every stat block I could find I determined that a 15 PB is the standard. That is what I used, and plan to use on any further non-heroic minions (if necessary).

AstralFire
2009-08-08, 09:59 PM
It was in the armor section.

I don't believe there is a guideline for that, but I haven't looked closely at stuff for minions.

AstralFire
2009-08-09, 07:40 AM
Today is my DMing day, so I probably will have the character and map to test against your latest efforts tomorrow morning, Mister Lert.

AgentPaper
2009-08-09, 02:57 PM
Hmm, what is point-blank range when throwing a quick weapon/advanced quick weapon?

AstralFire
2009-08-09, 03:04 PM
Point Blank works like the D&D version - within 30 ft/6 squares. Not using range increments or anything here for the Saga game so the ranges listed are a weapon's maximum effective range. This is one thing I haven't listed anywhere in the rules and I shall correct soon. -eyes other topic-.

AgentPaper
2009-08-09, 03:16 PM
Nicey. Also, you might want to change Active Defense to last until the end of your next turn. Right now, it says you get the bonus "on the subsequent round", which means if your opponent acts before you in a round, and misses you by 5, you won't get the +2 to hit until after his next action, which seems kinda off. :smallwink:

Edit: Also, this is probably just me being silly, but what accuracy bonus would, for example, an advanced quick weapon have? Just 3? or 3+3=6? For some reason I assumed the latter, but I realize now the former probably make more sense.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-09, 03:44 PM
It's something that should be exceptionally rare; we're talking like, this happens once a generation at best. But it's not mechanically banned in the system.

I'd expect this to be more common in the mix races - a few sand people may dabble in airbending, for example (I'm thinking)

Are all these feats selected upon level-up only, or are some on class bonus lists?



And, finally, another 9th-level character to test Katara. A weapon master rather than a insane hobo firebender, and one with a few morals in case she wants to try some diplomacy on the assassin sent to kill her.


Song, Medium Earthen Scout 4/Soldier 2/Scoundrel 1/Bounty Hunter 1/Trick Thrower 1
Spirit Points: 3
Initiative: +14
Senses: Perception +9
──────────────────────────────────
Defenses: Reflex 29 (flat-footed 23), Fortitude 24, Will 21
Hit Points: 89 (Threshold 29)
──────────────────────────────────
Speed: 6 squares
Melee: Quick Weapon +10 (1d10+4)
Ranged: Quick Weapon +15 (1d10+9, 15 squares)
Ranged: Bow +14 (3d6+4, 50 squares)
Ranged: Crossbow +14 (3d6+4, 100 squares)
Ranged: Boomerang +14 (3d6+4, 40 squares)
BAB/Grapple: +7/+12
Special Actions: Aim (-2 condition track on hit, +1 attack), Dastardly Strike, Indomitable
──────────────────────────────────
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 20, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 8
Special Qualities: Earth's Embrace, Stubborn
Talents: Acute Senses, Improved Initiative, Indomitable, Dastardly Strike, Hunter's Mark, Debilitating Shot
Feats: Improved Damage Threshold, Advanced Weapon Proficiency, Shake it Off, Far Shot x3, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Martial Arts I, Careful Shot, Quick Draw, Weapon Proficiency (boomerang)
Skills: Endurance +12, Initiative +14 (reroll), Perception +9, Stealth +14, Survival +9
Possessions: Crossbow w/ bolts, Bow w/ arrows, Advanced Quick Weapons, Boomerangs


PS: Also, an 11th-level character to challenge Princess Buttercup. A bender diplomat from the Fire Nation, not necessarily still in their employ. Likely conflict with the Princess would come from a botched negotiation. I'd also like to comment that Refraction, as a diversion to hide, is not particularly useful as a full-round action. And a question: does Lightning Mind allow you to full-round-bend Cold Fire without spending a spirit point, or nay?

Shoji, Medium Fire Nation Scoundrel 3/Soldier 4/Sifu 4
Spirit Points: 4
Initiative +7
Senses: Perception +6
──────────────────────────────────
Defenses: Reflex 27 (flat-footed 24), Fortitude 26, Will 25
Hit Points: 81 (Threshold 26)
──────────────────────────────────
Speed: 6 squares
Melee: Unarmed Strike +11 (1d6+5 fire)
Melee: Quick Weapon +13 (1d4+5 fire)
Ranged: Quick Weapon +15 (1d4+7)
Ranged: Crossbow +13 (2d6+5)
BAB/Grapple/Bend: +10/+12/+14
Special Actions: Serenity (natural 12)
Bending Suite: Move Element x2, Cold Fire x4, Heatwave, Rush x2
Rhetorical Suite: Spirit Crusher x4, Puppet Master x4, Command
──────────────────────────────────
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 16
Special Qualities: Military Education, Rise Like the Sun
Talents: Knack, Fool's Luck, Indomitable, Deflect Attack, Lightning Mind, Wholeness of Body
Feats: Quick Draw, Point Blank Shot, Spiritual, Martial Arts I, Spiritual Training x3, Rhetorical Training x3
Skills: Acrobatics +12, Athletics +10, Attunement +11, Deception +13, Persuasion +13, Stealth +12
Possessions: 8 Simple Quick Weapons (hidden), Crossbow, Bolts

AgentPaper
2009-08-09, 06:17 PM
So, are Armored Defense and Improved Armored Defense just plain removed? And in that case, does that mean you don't need Armored Defense to take things like Second Skin and Armor Mastery?

AstralFire
2009-08-09, 06:54 PM
AHHHHHH TOO MUCH TO DO

I haven't decided what to do with AD or IAD yet, tomorrow will be a better day to ask me that.

None of the new feats are on class bonus feat lists except for Martial Arts, though several will appear as chooseable ones for a Bender.

Lightning mind can be used as you think it can. I will clarify this officially along with the bits on ranged stuff... when it is not exactly one minute to the game I'm supposed to DM while I still have a garden to water. @_@ Sundays = Chaos for me, sorry.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-09, 07:18 PM
Thoughts:
To balance Apostheosis, perhaps change the time required to a swift action and make the thing temporary? Half heroic level rounds or something, 1/encounter.

Water needs more battlefield control. Examples would be steam for concealment (another possible water/earth mix, w/ sand); but most importantly freezing with ice - something sorely lacking. Waterbenders can, at best, halve movement, which still leaves people plenty of room to take harmful actions.

Power Attack isn't a bonus feat for anyone?

Don't worry; we're not going to leave or anything. No need to rush to appease us; we're the ones helping you, after all.

AgentPaper
2009-08-10, 01:16 AM
Okay, finished up my character. Super aimed-attack each round, if it hits you're stuck doing absolutely nothing until she gets to try again. If she misses, she gets 1 re-roll during the encounter. And since she gets to re-roll initiative, you probably won't even be able to get a first action in.


Dance, Medium Earth Nation Soldier 6/Scoundrel 3/Elite Trooper 1/Trick Thrower 1
Spirit Points: 11
Initiative: +15
Senses: Perception +5
──────────────────────────────────
Defenses: Reflex 28 (flat-footed 23), Fortitude 22, Will 17
Hit Points: 123 (Threshold 27)
──────────────────────────────────
Speed: 6 squares
Melee: Quick Weapon +14 (1d10-1)
Ranged: Quick Weapon +20 (1d10+5, 6 squares)
BAB/Grapple: +10/+17
Special Actions: Aim (Grapple for Pin/no actions), Knack, Lucky Shot
──────────────────────────────────
Abilities: Str 8, Dex 20, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 11, Cha 8
Special Qualities: Conditional Feat, Earth's Embrace, Stubborn
Talents: Expert Grappler, Devastating Attack, Penetrating Attack, Knack, Lucky Shot, Greater Weapon Focus (Quick), Ranged Pin
Feats: Improved Damage Threshold, Armor Proficiency (Light), Weapon Proficiency (Simple), Martial Arts I, Advanced Weapon Proficiency, Rock Steady, Quick Draw, Rain of Blades, Toughness, Active Defense, Weapon Focus (Quick), Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Careful Shot
Skills: Endurance +13, Initiative +15
Possessions: Sheng Biao (Advanced Quick Weapon)

Notes:
Aimed Throw: +21 (+10 BaB, +3 Accuracy, +5 Dexterity, +1 Weapon Focus, +1 Greater Weapon Focus, +1 Careful Shot)
+1 if within 6 squares, +2 if missed by 5 or more.

Damage: 1d10+5 (1d10 Advanced Quick Weapon, +5 Dexterity)
+1 if within 6 squares, Treat threshold/damage reduction as 5 lower.

Grapple: +17 (+10 BaB, +5 Dexterity, +2 Expert Grappler)
+5 if moved no more than 1 square, +2 if missed by 5 or more.

Can use Knack to re-roll initiative.
Can use Lucky Shot to re-roll an attack.


Oh, and if you're curious, a Sheng Biao is basically a dart on the end of a rope. Used in obscure and mostly impractical asian martial arts, but also by guys with long sleeves, 1800s gangsters, and nuns, to name a few.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-10, 06:59 AM
An updated, 11th-level variant of my earlier condition track build. Another trick thrower, probably here for a friendly (or not-so-friendly) duel between two of the best weapon masters in the Earth Kingdom. I'd make the ones between two non-AstralFire players myself, but I can't map and I don't know the giantitp PbP protocols.

BTW, AgentPaper, what's up with your stats?It looks like you started with Str 8, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 11, Cha 8; which means you have 3 extra point buy points left.

Also, I think you're forgetting to add half heroic level to damage.

Relevant quotes:

Hmm, I think we're actually going to roll with 28 PB.


You'll be limited to a third of your max Spirit Points for these arena battles.


Song, Medium Earth Nation Scout 4/Soldier 2/Scoundrel 1/Bounty Hunter 1/Trick Thrower 3
Spirit Points: 4
Initiative: +15
Senses: Perception +10 (reroll)
──────────────────────────────────
Defenses: Reflex 31 (flat-footed 25), Fortitude 26, Will 23
Hit Points: 104 (Threshold 31)
──────────────────────────────────
Speed: 6 squares
Melee: Quick Weapon +12 (1d10+5)
Ranged: Quick Weapon +17 (1d10+11, 15 squares)
Ranged: Bow +16 (3d6+5, 50 squares)
Ranged: Crossbow +16 (3d6+5, 100 squares)
Ranged: Boomerang +16 (3d6+6, 40 squares)
BAB/Grapple: +9/+14
Special Actions: Aim (-2 condition track/prone on hit, +1 attack), Dastardly Strike, Indomitable, Point Blank Shot, Shake it Off
──────────────────────────────────
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 20, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 8
Special Qualities: Earth's Embrace, Stubborn, Trick Throw +1
Talents: Acute Senses, Improved Initiative, Indomitable, Dastardly Strike, Hunter's Mark, Debilitating Shot, Knockdown Shot
Feats: Improved Damage Threshold, Advanced Weapon Proficiency, Shake it Off, Far Shot x3, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Martial Arts I, Careful Shot, Quick Draw, Weapon Proficiency (boomerang)
Skills: Endurance +13, Initiative +15 (reroll), Perception +10 (reroll), Stealth +15, Survival +10
Possessions: Crossbow w/ bolts, Bow w/ arrows, Advanced Quick Weapons, Boomerangs

AgentPaper
2009-08-10, 12:59 PM
Whoops! Missed the 28 point buy, I had just used the standard 25 for that character. Thanks for catching that! And I did forget to add half my level to damage, though that I blame on not understanding the rules. Anyways, here (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=145337) is the updated sheet.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-08-10, 04:08 PM
I would be interested in helping, but the rules seem rather confusing. Perhaps it's because I've never played SWSE, which it seems to be heavily based on.

Sadly, I'm going to be AFK for a week, but when I return, if I can get some help understanding the rules, I'd be more than happy to help playtest.

I was kinda thinking of an Earthbender... if anyone has seen Full Metal Alchemist, think Lt. Armstrong :smallbiggrin:

AstralFire
2009-08-10, 04:24 PM
Regarding Improved/Armored Defense:

Armored Defense: Armor (except shields) that you wear grant an armor bonus to defense rather than a dodge bonus to defense; armor bonuses to defense are not lost when you are flat-footed.

Improved Armored Defense: Your maximum dexterity bonus to Reflex Defense is not limited by the type of armor you are wearing.
Requires Second Skin, Armored Defense.

Regarding Power Attack:

This feat is a replacement of the original and not actually a new feat. However, I will go through all of the replacements and note which class lists they belong to.

Making the changes to Active Defense and putting some thought into Refraction (Standard should work, yes?), as well as considering your mist suggestion. We may have enough powers now that I feel comfortable not necessarily striving for equal numbers of them all.


Sadly, I'm going to be AFK for a week, but when I return, if I can get some help understanding the rules, I'd be more than happy to help playtest.

I'll be happy to; just let me know. :smallsmile:

Thought I've been working on with scraps - Skill Focus with various skills allowing for various stunts. Essentially, add a 'Focused Only' line to the skills. This is not combat vital, so it's not a high priority right now.

Regarding Apotheosis, how's this?

Apotheosis: You can enter the Avatar State at will as a swift action once per encounter, and are in full control of the state as it occurs; you do not have to spend Destiny Points to move in or out of the form, but you must spend one Spirit Point every round that you remain in the state voluntarily. Mechanics for the Avatar State are detailed in the Avatar Template.
Requires Realization, GM Approval - this is a very powerful talent.

AstralFire
2009-08-10, 05:03 PM
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6694129#post6694129

3-way 1v1v1 match.

Initiative order:

Dance
Buttercup
Shoji
Meat


No items, Final Destination (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyoR-Pg6o0c).

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-10, 06:57 PM
Now that I realize how armor works (the description in the equipment section made me think only shields worked the new way), isn't Armor Proficiency (light) a bit powerful? Anywhere from +3 to +5 reflex defense, depending on your build.

I'm not so sure that BAB+charisma is the best way to go for a bending attack. Its only source of increased accuracy is Martial Arts. That just gives it the same accuracy bonus that Balanced Weapons get for free, without the option of using Weapon Focus/Careful Shot/etc. for more attack bonus. That means that about half would miss on a decently defense-focused opponent (forget AC specialists), meaning that a 2 offense/1 buff spread for a feat means that you get one hit per encounter per Spiritual Training feat, after which MAD gimps you. I should probably actually play an encounter before making such criticism, but that's my initial whiny impression. :smallbiggrin:

AstralFire
2009-08-10, 07:07 PM
The first two or three points get negated by an attack's accuracy bonus, so I think it works out okay. Armor is a tricky thing to balance, though, and I will be very surprised if there aren't kinks in the numbers to work out. The feat investment in Martial Arts is part of why I wanted to give it more bonuses earlier.

Bending attacks are valid options for Weapon Focus type feats and such since they're an attack type as opposed to a Use the Force roll.

And it's not whiny at all - I definitely appreciate any and all insight. Feedback and playtesting is what makes a system good, and if we have to scrap all of what I've done with the armor system, then that's what we'll do.

Mist (Water)
Action: Full-round.
Target: 12 square circle centered on you.
Effect: You agitate the water droplets trapped in the air around you and condense more from the surrounding area, bringing a squat but heavy cloud on the ground right around you. All creatures within the area have total concealment against one another if using sight to locate; when moving into or adjacent to a square with difficult terrain, they must make a DC (10+Bender Level) Acrobatics check or end up prone. The mist lasts until the end of the encounter. Area attacks clear a path through the mist all the way from the point of origin to the target square.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-10, 07:21 PM
Bending attacks are valid options for Weapon Focus type feats and such since they're an attack type as opposed to a Use the Force roll.

OIC

Shoji wouldn't benefit from this (and changing his build now is halfway to cheap), but this opens up new possibilities.

What was the "centering" mechanic I heard/saw mentioned in a few places, though? I could search for the fragments of description, but getting it from the source would be more clear.

I have a solution to the problem of Air Nomad pacifism - mongrels. Somebody with a single Air Nomad parent may have enough personality traits of the other culture to break their mold.

AstralFire
2009-08-10, 07:25 PM
OIC

Shoji wouldn't benefit from this (and changing his build now is halfway to cheap), but this opens up new possibilities.

What was the "centering" mechanic I heard/saw mentioned in a few places, though? I could search for the fragments of description, but getting it from the source would be more clear.

Whenever you make a critical hit with a bending form, you may return one form of your choice to your Bending suite for the encounter, including the form you just used. You may not regain more than one form from the same attack, regardless of the number of targets hit. Whenever you spend three swift actions in the same round or across consecutive rounds to center yourself, you may also return one Bending Form to your Bending suite.

Functionally similar to going up a step on the condition track the hard way.


I have a solution to the problem of Air Nomad pacifism - mongrels. Somebody with a single Air Nomad parent may have enough personality traits of the other culture to break their mold.

Well, not all Air Nomads were necessarily the good kind, either. I think the card game had an evil airbender and waterbender, but don't quote me on that - I never played it.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-10, 07:32 PM
They're being indoctrinated from birth with peace and the monk mantra - and if they display any discrepancy, they might be barred from training. Anyone that's not seriously messed up will be nonviolent. This is probably an exaggeration, though; and PCs can bend the laws of reality.

I think there needs to be a way to have access to more bending forms. Either a talent that gives more forms or a feat that allows faster recovery, akin to Shake it Off. An avatar has to use one more feat slot than normal for Open-Minded, and thus has less bending forms than a more standard bender.

Also, the soldier talents are in the scout section.

AstralFire
2009-08-10, 07:39 PM
Also, the soldier talents are in the scout section.

Ah, thank you.


They're being indoctrinated from birth with peace and the monk mantra - and if they display any discrepancy, they might be barred from training. Anyone that's not seriously messed up will be nonviolent. This is probably an exaggeration, though; and PCs can bend the laws of reality.

I think there needs to be a way to have access to more bending forms. Either a talent that gives more forms or a feat that allows faster recovery, akin to Shake it Off. An avatar has to use one more feat slot than normal for Open-Minded, and thus has less bending forms than a more standard bender.

The bit about the Avatar is intentional; from a simulationist standpoint, I'd represent the Avatar as having a faster rate of level growth or getting a free bonus feat, but the goal is to try and balance him against the rest of the party - in the show itself, Aang suddenly gets extremely slowed in his progress so that the specialist benders don't get upstaged (compare how good a natural waterbender he is early in Season 1 to how Katara, someone with little talent but a lot of drive, overtakes him and continues to be better at it than him by the end of said season).

I'm considering making Spiritual Training and Rhetorical Training give 4 abilities per feat grab, but we'll see how this playtest goes.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-10, 07:48 PM
More whining about bending attacks...
Avatar has medium BAB. This means that at around 10th level, an avatar will have lost 3 points of BAB - one from her class mix becoming an avatar, and two from the avatar class. Martial Arts III and Weapon Focus can alleviate it, but now it's "Charisma+1" competing against "class bonus+ability score+improved defenses+more feats". Avatar has less bending forms, and is more likely to miss more often, and has MAD...They may level faster, but they're a bit gimped outside of the avatar state. Also, the avatar class has the weakest talent selection...

Bending attacks target Reflex too often, as that is the strongest score (armor, dexterity, etc.) Heatwave and Puppet are the only effective attacks that target another score, and Heatwave is only condition track damage (which a weaponmaster can do more efficiently). Air and Earth are left out in the cold.

Bending talents could be expanded, as a lot of them use either several spirit points or have a harsh level requirement.

Whining about races...

Water people and Sun People are underpowered. Each other race has a schtick to choose them: extra class skill, rhetorical training as a bonus feat, improved damage threshold, free skill training...
Sun People are good mostly for gurus (Attunement specialists), but Water is a bit iffy. Foggy Swamp's Distilled Motion is nice, but their speed doesn't get high enough to make it really effective; and Polar Defender restrains mobility too much.

PS: Pheonix is comparable to Indomitable. The latter is 1/day rather than 1/encounter. The former costs a Spirit Point. The comparison doesn't really favor Pheonix - but then again, the removed need for heat and the wider range in which you can take Pheonix may compensate.

AstralFire
2009-08-10, 08:11 PM
Again - don't worry about it being whining. It's feedback, which is what a playtester is for. :smallsmile: Praise does wonders for my ego, but very little for direct improvement.

Overtargeting of Reflex is a big issue, but I'm not sure how to alleviate it at the moment. Being wuxia inspired, and a Y7 cartoon, combat is much more about avoiding than it is about persisting. I could add a deafening attack for Air. The D&D version of this that I worked on had this Earth ability that I made up - it could probably translate well, but I was hoping to avoid having too much martial arts move encroachment into the bending form:



Headcracker (Seed)
Difficulty Class: 15
Components: Somatic
Bending Time: Standard action
Range: Melee
Target: One earth-containing creature or object
You find the bits of earth in the target - maybe a man or
demon's calcified bones, or maybe a Tarrasque's mineral
rich exoskeleton. Then you strike, ignoring barriers. Make
an attack roll with your melee weapon. If you hit, your
attack ignores damage reduction and hardness, and deals
+1d6 damage.
Creatures and objects without significant blocks of
earthen components, such as oozes, plants, wood, Iron
Golems or fire elementals, are immune to this attack.
(Though metal creatures and components can be affected
with the Metalbend template.)

I also don't want to overemphasize fortitude too much because it gets hammered by all the condition trackers.



Realization: You can now bend all elements, and no longer take any penalties for bending a different element than your primary element. You gain access to the Spiritual feat for the alternate forms of Earth and Water which you did not take earlier. Additionally, your bending and melee attacks can combine the traits of any two elements as you wish. The sub-variants of Earth and Water count as different elements for this purpose.
Requires Complementary Element, Opposing Element, Perfected Element.

This is supposed to be one of the big powers of the Avatar class. Perhaps it could be moved up a bit so they can take multielement advantages earlier? Or even made an inherent part of the class?

Given your BAB criticisms, however, I think it would be fair to grant the Avatar Open-Minded as a free bonus feat upon taking his first level in this class.


Bending talents could be expanded, as a lot of them use either several spirit points or have a harsh level requirement.

I originally had Bending Focus and Bending Specialization talent lines, which gave +1 to attack per, and +4 to Bender Level per, and there were two iterations of each. Should they make a reappearance?

I'll look into Sun People and the water tribes and post when I've come up with something I like.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-10, 08:30 PM
Overtargeting of Reflex is a big issue, but I'm not sure how to alleviate it at the moment. Being wuxia inspired, and a Y7 cartoon, combat is much more about avoiding than it is about persisting.

Yes, but in the cartoon, one hit can end a fight. Not so in the game - an attack that gets past Reflex could easily be a "miss". If blue fire clips somebody for 10d8 damage and they still have 50 hit points left, does that really "hit" in-universe? Not to mention that moving, repeatedly bending, and recovering is quite difficult compared to the ease with which a weapon master attacks...




I originally had Bending Focus and Bending Specialization talent lines, which gave +1 to attack per, and +4 to Bender Level per, and there were two iterations of each. Should they make a reappearance?

Maybe not with those numbers, but that might be worth looking into.



I'll look into Sun People and the water tribes and post when I've come up with something I like.
The whole race part was why I characterized my post as whining, as I haven't mentally tested any of those races with character ideas yet.

AstralFire
2009-08-10, 08:50 PM
Any thoughts on what I proposed with the Avatar class? And as I said, I am worried about making boosting Fort too important, since there is already a lot of incentive to take anything that can improve it since that improves Threshold.

Lert, A.
2009-08-10, 09:43 PM
Any thoughts on what I proposed with the Avatar class? And as I said, I am worried about making boosting Fort too important, since there is already a lot of incentive to take anything that can improve it since that improves Threshold.

I noticed that both your PrCs have +3 to all three defenses as opposed to +2/+4. A +2 to all three would be more appropriate.

Personally, I think that DT is well supported, but Fort could still use some help. Maybe return the armor bonus to Fort instead of just DT? Doesn't make a lot of sense depending on how you look at it, but Fort is getting nothing of note.

AstralFire
2009-08-10, 09:49 PM
I noticed that both your PrCs have +3 to all three defenses as opposed to +2/+4. A +2 to all three would be more appropriate.

Personally, I think that DT is well supported, but Fort could still use some help. Maybe return the armor bonus to Fort instead of just DT? Doesn't make a lot of sense depending on how you look at it, but Fort is getting nothing of note.

I was hoping to avoid making a 'second tier' PrC like the Jedi Master/Sith Lord/Force Disciple, so cutting back on BAB (the Avatar) and HP (the Sifu) was supposed to be the response to that, since +2 to everything is almost worthless - a level in Soldier and a level in a Will Primary beats that hands down.

Foryn's concern is that too much of the abilities are attacking Reflex. Giving Fortitude Defense itself a boost would make the current alternate modes of attack too much discouragement, I think.

See the new playtest thread?

Lert, A.
2009-08-10, 10:04 PM
Giving Fortitude Defense itself a boost would make the current alternate modes of attack too much discouragement, I think.

Or encourage better/more Fort attacks?

As for bending attacks, I definitely see the problems involved. What about a +1 to bending attacks when taking bending feats (not including Spiritual). It would give a slight bonus to the bending wizards that pick up Spiritual Training a number of times or otherwise improving bending ability. That, or bending talents which to me aren't high on my list of picks in most builds (unless I'm just playtesting without trying to optimize).

In other news: a level 3 defensive oriented bender.

Geodude
Earthen Soldier 3
Init +8; Perception +1
------------------------------------------------
Defenses Ref 18 (flat footed 15), Fort 16, Will 15
HP 41 Threshold 23
-------------------------------------------------
Speed 6 squares
Melee +6 unarmed (1d6+3)
Melee +8 jian (2d6+3)
Ranged +5 bow (3d6+3)
Bending attack +6
Base Atk 3; Grp +5
Effective Bender Level 3
--------------------------------------------------
Abilities Str 14, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 15
Talents (1) Spiritual Talent(Elemental Reach), Armored Defense (3) Solid Rock
Feats WP(simple, advanced), AP(Light), MA1, Improved Damage Threshold(Conditional bonus feat) ; (1) Spiritual(Earth(Sand)) ; (2) Earth Unity ; (3) Spiritual Training
Skills Athletics(+8) Endurance(+7), Initiative(+8)
Bending forms Armor, Elemental Spray, Quake
Possesions mail armor, jian, bow, arrows



See the new playtest thread?

Yes. Paper is up first according to initiative. I wait.

AstralFire
2009-08-10, 10:10 PM
Or encourage better/more Fort attacks?

I'm not sure I follow?


As for bending attacks, I definitely see the problems involved. What about a +1 to bending attacks when taking bending feats (not including Spiritual). It would give a slight bonus to the bending wizards that pick up Spiritual Training a number of times or otherwise improving bending ability. That, or bending talents which to me aren't high on my list of picks in most builds (unless I'm just playtesting without trying to optimize).

I think... that could work out really well, actually. If Martial Arts' acc bonus goes back to being unarmored, that would allow someone to make their choice in how to specialize. Perhaps give a hard +4 cap to increases to attack rolls from Martial Arts and Spiritual Training in total?


Geodude
Earthen Soldier 3
Init +8; Perception +1
------------------------------------------------
Defenses Ref 18 (flat footed 15), Fort 16, Will 15
HP 41 Threshold 23
-------------------------------------------------
Speed 6 squares
Melee +6 unarmed (1d6+3)
Melee +8 jian (2d6+3)
Ranged +5 bow (3d6+3)
Bending attack +6
Base Atk 3; Grp +5
Effective Bender Level 3
--------------------------------------------------
Abilities Str 14, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 15
Talents (1) Spiritual Talent(Elemental Reach), Armored Defense (3) Solid Rock
Feats WP(simple, advanced), AP(Light), MA1, Improved Damage Threshold(Conditional bonus feat) ; (1) Spiritual(Earth(Sand)) ; (2) Earth Unity ; (3) Spiritual Training
Skills Athletics(+8) Endurance(+7), Initiative(+8)
Bending forms Armor, Elemental Spray, Quake
Possesions mail armor, jian, bow, arrows


Dude-dude-geo-dude.
http://guidesarchive.ign.com/guides/12045/images/geodude.gif

AgentPaper
2009-08-10, 10:12 PM
Oh, one thing I forgot to mention, mechanically I'm just drawing advanced quick weapons and throwing them, but I'm RPing it as using a single Sheng Biao. No change in how it works, though.

Lert, A.
2009-08-10, 11:08 PM
I'm not sure I follow?


Me neither. :smalleek:

I think I meant:As it is, there is almost no reason to want to build up Fort since eveything attacks Ref. Meaning that the few things that do affect Fort act as a golden BB. But if any more Fort-targeting attacks appear players are going to boost it to normal levels which are pretty good against bender attacks as they are right now. Which then makes the existing Fort-targeting attacks weaker than ever.

I think.

Also, I'm facing two combat characters! Me! Squishy! Who thought that was at all fair?

AstralFire
2009-08-10, 11:10 PM
Me neither. :smalleek:

I think I meant:As it is, there is almost no reason to want to build up Fort since eveything attacks Ref. Meaning that the few things that do affect Fort act as a golden BB. But if any more Fort-targeting attacks appear players are going to boost it to normal levels which are pretty good against bender attacks as they are right now. Which then makes the existing Fort-targeting attacks weaker than ever.

I think.

I think for now we'll see how it works out and make adjustments.


Also, I'm facing two combat characters! Me! Squishy! Who thought that was at all fair?

It is entirely possible for you to try and say, turn their focuses against each other or jump into the river below.

Lert, A.
2009-08-10, 11:46 PM
It is entirely possible for you to try and say, turn their focuses against each other or jump into the river below.

Done.

Like we established earlier, a non-combat character against a combat character will lose every time without proper backup.

AstralFire
2009-08-10, 11:54 PM
I honestly was not expecting them to focus on you, but each other, for starters. The whole firebender/earthbender thing. XP Sorry.

AgentPaper
2009-08-11, 12:00 AM
I honestly was not expecting them to focus on you, but each other, for starters. The whole firebender/earthbender thing. XP Sorry.

Hey, as far as I can tell, the other guy just scampered off. I'd much rather handle the immediate and present issue of the airbender, who is the entire point of me being there anyways. Firebenders are fiends, but they're a dime a dozen.

Oh, and in case you're wondering, my selected motivation is to have been sent by the earth kingdom to bring them the airbender by any means necessary. (though alive)

Really, though, I was more expecting a series of 1v1 battles, not FFAs and special setups.

AstralFire
2009-08-11, 12:04 AM
I'll be pulling out a number of irregular maps - Star Wars wasn't build for static arenas, and that's an emphasis I'd like to keep, so I'd like to see what it's possible for people to do with concealment, cliff edges, walls, etc. I suppose after this I'll go back to 1v1s for a while, but I don't want to be testing in flat arenas with no features.

Lert, A.
2009-08-11, 12:05 AM
I honestly was not expecting them to focus on you, but each other, for starters. The whole firebender/earthbender thing. XP Sorry.

S'arite.

Problem was that I was in a position to be attacked first round by a highly optimized character, had a minion who can only move 3 (who I pretty much need for cover) and a retreat would just move me closer to the other opponent (and not actually out of reach, just forcing a move plus attack). Too many factors to go wrong. In a party situation it would go much better.

EDIT: and I'm not even an airbender! That would have been useful. I'm a designated support unit.

AgentPaper
2009-08-11, 01:29 AM
Question: Is it possible to, while charging, make a tumble check to avoid an AoO? Assuming you're going through a threatened square, of course.

Edit: Also, what are the rules for attacking from concealment/total concealment? Does it deny the target their dexterity bonus?

Edit: Edit: Also, are there advanced versions of exotic weapons? Or are you stuck with the simple versions?

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-11, 07:18 AM
Yeah, the fact that Princess was surrounded was a real bummer. I still think her best bet was flight, though - you can run 24 squares per round, as opposed to the mere 12 squares that Dance can move while attacking. I could reasonably pursue you using Rush, moving/attacking 22 squares or just running 40 squares to cut you off; but Shoji is more content to wait for another opportunity than risk facing somebody like Dance.

In other news, Shoji just prolonged the fight. Probably gave away his location too, but yelling really loudly tends to do that.

AstralFire
2009-08-11, 09:25 AM
Question: Is it possible to, while charging, make a tumble check to avoid an AoO? Assuming you're going through a threatened square, of course.

Not as far as I know. I was pretty sure not, and double-checking Acrobatics, it specifies a move action, not movement.


Edit: Also, what are the rules for attacking from concealment/total concealment? Does it deny the target their dexterity bonus?

The only benefits of concealment are penalties to attack rolls against you.


Edit: Edit: Also, are there advanced versions of exotic weapons? Or are you stuck with the simple versions?

Exotic weapons are stuck with whatever they're based on - I believe only the Meteoric Hammer is Simple in base. If you take exotic weapon for a weapon that is based off of an advanced weapon, you do not need advanced weapon proficiency separately, either.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-11, 10:29 AM
The only benefits of concealment are penalties to attack rolls against you.

Unless you make a Stealth check, which has its own benefits (flat-footing); but concealment does not automatically give bonuses. It does give a +5 to Stealth which helps you get that bonus, but the bonus is from Stealth, not the concealment.

PS:
An important point to be made (which hasn't yet been explicitly stated) is that running away should be a big part of most these fights. How many times did Team Avatar face Zuko/Azula? How many times did those fights end in a conclusive defeat?

AstralFire
2009-08-11, 12:49 PM
PS:
An important point to be made (which hasn't yet been explicitly stated) is that running away should be a big part of most these fights. How many times did Team Avatar face Zuko/Azula? How many times did those fights end in a conclusive defeat?

This is a good point. I wouldn't want to overemphasize it for those who do like to bean people, but it ties in nicely with the 'lots of terrain features, 'on the run' cinematic battles.'


Proposed Spirit Point System: You gain 3 Spirit Points a day. At 8th level, you gain 4 Spirit Points a day. At 15th level, you gain 5 Spirit Points a day. These Spirit Points are renewed daily, and have a maximum cap of the same value. The Avatar Prestige Class grants you 2 additional Spirit Points a day (to try and make up for its lower BAB), Channel the River of Souls grants you 1 additional Spirit Point a day.

The above is not concrete; would love some feedback.

Regarding the Avatar Class:

Open-Minded: At 1st level, the you gain the Open-Minded feat as a free bonus feat. If you already possessed the feat prior to this level, you may select any single feat of your choice instead. You must meet the feat's prerequisites as normal.
Synergy: Beginning at 2nd level, when making an attack you can simultaneously combine the traits of any two elements which you are capable of bending. The variants of Earth and Water count as different elements for this purpose.

New Fortitude Bending Forms:

Thunderclap (Air)
Action: Standard
Target: See text
Effect: Select a 6 square line originating from your space, or a 3 square cone originating from your space, then make a Bending attack against the Fortitude Defense of all creatures within the area. If successful, a creature within the area of attack is deafened for the next round, preventing them from hearing anything. This imposes a -10 penalty on their perception checks to oppose stealth, and also induces vertigo; until an affected target takes 3 swift actions within consecutive rounds to clear their head, they move at half speed and cannot charge. Any effect which would raise a creature along the condition track also removes the vertigo.

Explosive Wave (Earth, Fire)
Action: Reaction
Target: One creature you have just missed with an unarmed or earth/firebending attack which targets Reflex Defense.
Effect: As your swing goes wild, you hurl more of your element into the attack and make it explode with volatile force, striking the opponent unawares in a sensitive spot. Make an attack against the creature's Fortitude Defense. If successful, you deal no damage, but the target is made flat-footed and prone until their next turn.

Some stuff on bending accuracy:

Bending attacks are a special kind of attack, and 'Bending Attack' is a valid choice for feats such as 'Weapon Focus' or 'Triple Crit'.

Spiritual Training
You learn three new Bender Forms. You may take this feat multiple times, and you may select the same Form more than once in order to allow for multiple uses within the same encounter. Every time you take this feat, you gain a stacking +1 miscellaneous bonus with your bending attacks, to a maximum of +3. You do not gain this benefit to attack rolls while wearing armor or using a shield.
Prerequisite: Spiritual

On the races:

Foggy Swamp Tribe
Swamp Tribesmen bear mixed traits of Earth and Water, combining Water's typical complacency with Earth's direct approach, resulting in a civilization that is slow to react but takes simple and direct measures when necessary. They favor water traits, however.
Distilled Motion: When moving in a straight line, Swamp Tribesmen ignore penalties for traversing difficult terrain, or when charging, Swamp Tribesmen take no penalty to armor class.
Focused Defense: A Swamp Tribesman with the Dodge feat gains a +3 bonus to his Fortitude Defense against the subject of his Dodge feat.
Marsh Living: Whenever subjected to attack from a poison or disease, a Swamp Tribesman may substitute an Endurance check for their Fortitude Defense if their Endurance check is higher.

Polar Water Tribe
Polar Tribesmen tend to be reactive, nurturing, and slow (but not rigid) to change. Not every member of the Polar Tribes bears these traits, but most have at least one.
Arctic Endurance: Polar Tribesmen gain a +5 bonus to Fortitude Defense against extreme cold.
Defender: When fighting adjacent to an ally, Polar Tribesmen gain a +2 dodge bonus to Reflex Defense and grant a +2 dodge bonus to their ally. They cannot gain this bonus additional times for having more than one ally present, nor can multiple Polar Tribesmen grant one ally multiple instances of this bonus.
Flowing Currents: A Polar Tribesman does not grant a bonus to attack rolls to opponents who flank him. When he is flanked, he gains a +2 bonus to his attack rolls, carrying momentum from one opponent right into the next.

Reds added Power Attack, Rapid Shot and Rapid Strike to their list of bonus feats.

Sun Warriors
The original civilization from which the Fire Nation arose. It bears the same traits as those of the Fire Nation, though they are less likely to be conflict-driven individuals. Some Fire Nation individuals may bear these abilities moreso than their native ones.
Burning Spirit: A Sun Warrior may reroll any Attunement check. She must take the second result, even if it is worse than the previous. Sun Warriors may use the Sense Lifeforce function of Attunement untrained.
Pyre: A Sun Warrior may use a Second Wind as a reaction, rather than as a swift action.
Rise Like the Sun: Whenever a Sun Warrior improves her place along the condition track or regains health, she gains a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls to her next successful attack. (Meaning that this bonus does not fade until after he makes a successful strike.)

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-11, 01:25 PM
Proposed Spirit Point System:Channel the River of Souls grants you 1 additional Spirit Point a day.

That would make it quite useful. It already is, but this might make it a shoo-in if you have extra feat slots.



Some stuff on bending accuracy:
[INDENT]If you have moved or will move in the same round that you make a bending attack, you take your total armor check penalty (if you possess one) as a penalty to your attack roll with the bending attack. Bending attacks are a special kind of attack, and 'Bending Attack' is a valid choice for feats such as 'Weapon Focus' or 'Triple Crit'.

...

The former bit is in the introduction to Bending now. I think it works out well, because we primarily see armored benders with... the Earth Nation, whose feats primarily focus on not moving much or at all whenever possible.

Firebenders wear armor. Also, why would you ever have an armor check penalty? Armor Proficiency negates all penalties, and wearing armor nonproficient gives you at least -2 on all attacks (bad).

AstralFire
2009-08-11, 01:29 PM
That would make it quite useful. It already is, but this might make it a shoo-in if you have extra feat slots.

-nods- I'm aware, it would become very desirable. Might even need to be taken out. How does that proposal look, otherwise?


Firebenders wear armor.

I don't recall any Firebenders who do. Fire Nation soldiers who can't bend wear armor and use spears, but I think Firebenders just wear cloth.


Also, why would you ever have an armor check penalty? Armor Proficiency negates all penalties, and wearing armor nonproficient gives you at least -2 on all attacks (bad).

Technically, armor proficiency does not bring ACP to 0, it just makes it so the values don't apply to attack rolls and skill checks. Though I would have to state that rule overrides the one in the feat.

AstralFire
2009-08-11, 02:02 PM
Stripped out that bit about armor, and made it so Spiritual's bonus to accuracy stacks with Martial Arts, but you only gain it while not wearing armor. Thus, when including Weapon Focus, an unarmored bender regardless of class can gain up to +7 with attacks, but in return has used 7 feats and can't wear armor or go down to +4.

Also looking for feedback on the other forms added - finally have an Earth/Fire, now we just need an Air/Water - as well as the improvements to the three weak races.

As well as more feedback on the proposed Spirit Point regeneration system.

Thanks for all the comments, guys - they're really helpful. Sorry if I seem indecisive or prone to change, I just really believe that you have to be willing to make great alterations in order to make something good.

AgentPaper
2009-08-11, 04:18 PM
Big changes are good, especially this early in the development. As for the spirit system, it's good in theory, but in practice I think it falls into the trap of making your power in combat depend on how many times you fight each day in a campaign. In some campaigns, you'll have one, maybe two fights in a day, tops, so spirit points will get used all the time and the characters will thus be more powerful than intended. In other campaigns, (or even a different part of the same campaign) players will be fighting nearly constantly throughout the day, and spirit points will likely be used up quickly, leaving the characters less powerful than intended.

Instead, you might want to consider keeping spirit point caps as you have them now, but changing it so that characters only gain 1 spirit point for a day's rest, and then also give out a spirit point each time the players "win" an encounter. You could even add a note for DMs suggesting they give out more spirit points for an especially hard or important battle, and also for completing non-combat challenges, such as finishing a quest or completing a skill challenge.

Edit: Also, does missing with a rhetorical technique count as an attack for Active Defense?

AstralFire
2009-08-11, 05:13 PM
Big changes are good, especially this early in the development. As for the spirit system, it's good in theory, but in practice I think it falls into the trap of making your power in combat depend on how many times you fight each day in a campaign. In some campaigns, you'll have one, maybe two fights in a day, tops, so spirit points will get used all the time and the characters will thus be more powerful than intended. In other campaigns, (or even a different part of the same campaign) players will be fighting nearly constantly throughout the day, and spirit points will likely be used up quickly, leaving the characters less powerful than intended.

Well, there's something to be said for that being a limiting factor. I like the design philosophy behind the tiers of powers in 4E, where you can do most things every fight, but you won't be as fresh the fifth fight as you were the first.


Instead, you might want to consider keeping spirit point caps as you have them now, but changing it so that characters only gain 1 spirit point for a day's rest, and then also give out a spirit point each time the players "win" an encounter. You could even add a note for DMs suggesting they give out more spirit points for an especially hard or important battle, and also for completing non-combat challenges, such as finishing a quest or completing a skill challenge.

So caps of 3/4/5 depending on the level, 1 recharge a day, +1 for 'milestones', to use a 4E term? Avatar class gets an extra 1 recharge and a 1 higher cap, Channel feat increases cap by 1?


Edit: Also, does missing with a rhetorical technique count as an attack for Active Defense?

No, it doesn't use an attack roll, it uses a skill roll. That should be clarified.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-11, 05:57 PM
Milestones would, IMO, have to be more frequent than 1 every two encounters, but sounds good. If it signifies actual milestones, driven by plot, that could easily simulate things like the show. Channel would mostly be good for people who want to nova, because there's more incentive to use as you go, given Spirit Points' renewability.

Races look good. None of them really have a single massive feature like a new class skill and a free feat (maybe Pyre), but the situational bonuses add up.

Earth's Embrace is sort of wonky. For example, a Lightning Mind-enhanced Cold Fire use could entirely miss simply because it happened to have knocking prone as a side effect. Similarly, a Knockdown Shot-enhanced Trick Throw could miss simply because it happened to knock the target prone in addition to doing damage. I'm not sure how that works in-universe, but it doesn't really seem to. I don't have any ideas on how to reword it, though.

AstralFire
2009-08-11, 06:04 PM
Earth's Embrace is sort of wonky. For example, a Lightning Mind-enhanced Cold Fire use could entirely miss simply because it happened to have knocking prone as a side effect. Similarly, a Knockdown Shot-enhanced Trick Throw could miss simply because it happened to knock the target prone in addition to doing damage. I'm not sure how that works in-universe, but it doesn't really seem to. I don't have any ideas on how to reword it, though.

In Cold Fire, you ground the attack, and a knockdown throw was a little more telegraphed despite the extra force and speed - so you were able to brace for it better. Reroll mechanics are usually less well represented visually.

AgentPaper
2009-08-11, 11:32 PM
Hmm, looking over the Saga book, I think you should allow the Spacer Talent Tree, and just re-flavor it to naval ships instead of starships. Spacehound would instead apply to fighting in water and sea-sickness.

Also, another rules question. Does charging count as movement for the purposes of Skirmisher?

AstralFire
2009-08-11, 11:40 PM
Yeah, Skirmisher counts.

I was actually thinking of doing that, Agent - I didn't remove Ace Pilot because of the War Balloons/Appa, too. :) But it won't be as major a part of the system as it was in Avatar, I'm sure.

AgentPaper
2009-08-11, 11:47 PM
Nifty. And you didn't remove ace pilot? I would think you would want to, or at least give it a complete overhaul. Just reading the talents they get, I don't really see how they would translate to naval or zeppelin combat. Though there are those flying machines.

I'd say make it into a class designed to be either: A naval ship/zepplin pilot, a tank driver, a crazy flying machine driver, or a gunner on one of those vehicles, depending on what talent tree they choose to follow.

Also, is it just me, or is dodge just plain a crappy feat in general? I mean, compare it to Improved Defenses, which gives a +1 bonus to reflexes as well, except against ALL attackers, not just the one you designate, and also applies when you would be denied your dex bonus. And as if that weren't enough, Imrpoved Defenses ALSO gives you a +1 bonus to fort and will. I mean, what the heck were the designers thinking? :smallconfused: I'd at least increase the reflex bonus on dodge to +2, otherwise it's just a useless feat.

AstralFire
2009-08-11, 11:56 PM
Nifty. And you didn't remove ace pilot? I would think you would want to, or at least give it a complete overhaul. Just reading the talents they get, I don't really see how they would translate to naval or zeppelin combat. Though there are those flying machines.

I'd say make it into a class designed to be either: A naval ship/zepplin pilot, a tank driver, a crazy flying machine driver, or a gunner on one of those vehicles, depending on what talent tree they choose to follow.

Also, is it just me, or is dodge just plain a crappy feat in general? I mean, compare it to Improved Defenses, which gives a +1 bonus to reflexes as well, except against ALL attackers, not just the one you designate, and also applies when you would be denied your dex bonus. And as if that weren't enough, Imrpoved Defenses ALSO gives you a +1 bonus to fort and will. I mean, what the heck were the designers thinking? :smallconfused: I'd at least increase the reflex bonus on dodge to +2, otherwise it's just a useless feat.

I haven't given it much thought because until recently, what I knew about vehicle combat couldn't fill a thimble for Tinkerbell.

Dodge is pretty terrible. It has more use in vehicles, but yeah. Probably going to give it a boost, even with the racial bonus for the Swampers.

Lert, A.
2009-08-12, 12:14 AM
Long post ahead!

Before I begin I'll point out that my percentages are almost certainly off. They should be fairly close however for the points in this... thesis.
-----------------------------------

Let us begin with three characters. I will call them Larry, Curly, and Moe. Each of these characters has placed a whopping 18 into a single score so as to maximize their chosen attack form. They each begin with a single level of Soldier and they each take weapon focus in their chosen attack form, except for Larry. He took Spiritual.

Larry is a bender and has maximized his Charisma.
Curly is a melee smasher and has maximized his Strength.
Moe is a quick fighter and has maximized his Dexterity.


Question: Who has the best build?
Answer: Moe.

If we consider their first level attacks we see:

Larry has a +3 to attack (+1 BAB +1 MA1 +1 Str). He may be able to squeeze in another +1 or 2 out of Str with his remaining points. In this instance we will go with +1, reasons to be explained as we go along.
Curly has a +8 to attack (+1 BAB +2 advanced heavy weapon +1 weapon focus +4 Str)
Moe has a +9 to attack (+1 BAB +3 advanced quick weapon +1 weapon focus +4 Dex)

Damage-wise:

Larry can do 1d6+ his now measly Str which he could not buff very well with his remaining points + a possible buff from Spiritual. Unfortunately he is unable to bend any forms and this his only option at this level. (average 4.5 per hit)
Curly can do 3d6+8 (average 18.5)
Moe can do 1d10+4 (average 9.5)

But lets compare Reflex save:

Larry is hard pressed since he has put max points in Cha, he has to put something into Str if he is going to be able to do anything in melee and now he needs to put more into Dex. He currently has 13 (base +1 MA1 +1 level +1 soldier). Maybe he can squueze in a +1, but theat begins to become unlikely when you consider that he needs sufficient Wis to boost his bender level (when he eventually gets some forms).
Curly is a bit better off since he is not so MAD. He can easily put in a +2. The rest of his points will likely go to Con since he will need the HP and a high Damage Threshold as a frontliner. This gives him a 15 (base +1 MA1 +1 level +1 soldier +2 Dex).
Moe has to add nothing since Dex is his schtick. He has a 17 (base +1 MA1 +1 level +1 soldier +4 Dex).

How well do they hit?:

Larry needs a 12 or better to hit Curly, a 45% chance. He needs a 14 or better to hit Moe, a 35% chance.
Curly needs a 5 or better to hit Larry, a 80% chance. He needs a 9 or better to hit Moe, a 60% chance.
Moe needs a 4 or better to hit Larry, a 85% chance. He needs a 6 or better to hit Curly, a 75% chance.

Remember though that Moe can keep his distance (and should, since that is his thing). If Larry wants to attack with a ranged weapon he has to use his less-than impressive Dex and doing so doesn't improve his to-hit at all (his damage gets a boost to average 11.5 on the off chance he hits). Curly worsens his to-hit average by using a ranged weapon (now a +5 to-hit) down to a 45% chance. If he hits he deals the same damage.

Moe clearly comes out ahead by dodging attacks and sniping. He also has a fair number of points to dump into other stats since he is SAD.

------------------------------
Now we jump to level 4. All parties have incresed their primary stat by 1, though this doesn't help out at the moment. By now all our characters have all acquired lamellar armor and have picked up MA2 and MA3 for the Ref bonus.

Damage goes up:

Larry goes up to an average of 10, the biggest leap though his unarmed damage output is pretty well maxed out. He will almost assuredly lag behind for the rest of his career if he attacks unarmed. If he uses up a limited resource with a bending attack he will be able to reach up to an average of 13.5, up to three times. He has other options with regards to bending though.
Curly goes up to an average of 20.5
Moe goes up to an average of 11.5.

To hit goes up:

Larry goes up to +8 with unarmed attacks (+4 BAB +3 MA3 +1 Str) now matching our other characters' abilities at 1st level. He does get to bend now though with a +11 bonus (+4 BAB +3 MA3 +4 Cha). It would be +12 but he doesn't get the bonus from Spiritual Training since he needs the armor to stay alive. He still has not been able to pick up weapon focus since it would benefit only one form of attack.
Curly goes up to +11 (+4 BAB +2 advanced heavy weapon +1 weapon focus +4 Str).
Moe goes up to +12 (+4 BAB +3 advanced quick weapon +1 weapon focus +4 Dex)

Reflex goes up as well:

Larry goes up to 22 (base +3 MA3 +4 level +1 soldier +4 lamellar).
Curly goes up to 24 (base +3 MA3 +4 level, +1 soldier +2 Dex +4 lamellar).
Moe goes up to 26 (base +3 MA3 +4 level +1 soldier +4 Dex +4 lamellar).

How well do they hit?:

Larry with unarmed strikes now needs a 14 or better to hit Curly, a 35% chance. He now needs a 16 or better to hit Moe, a 25% chance. With bending attacks he needs a 12 or better to hit Curly, a 45% chance. He needs a 14 or better to hit Moe, a 35% chance.
Curly now needs a 11 or better to hit Larry, a 50% chance. He now needs a 15 or better to hit Moe, a 30% chance.
Moe now needs a 10 or better to hit Larry, a 55% chance. He now needs a 12 or better to hit Curly, a 45% chance.

Again, Larry and Curly will likely need to revert to ranged wepon attaacks to hit Moe. Larry now has a +6 with ranged weapons and can only hit with a 20, a 5% chance. Curly has a +8 and needs a 18 to hit, a 15% chance. Good luck, boys.

Again Moe pulls out ahead, getting hit less than a third of the time while hitting around half of the time.

-----------------------------------------

Now we go to our final jump for this paper (screen, whatever). Level 8. I'll just assume that everybody will go into Bounty hunter, getting a +4 to Ref and keeping a full BAB. They also put another point into their primary stat, giving another +1 bonus. A secondary stat will change which we will say adds a +1 to Dex for Larry and Curly (Moe's already awesom, he doesn't care about his other stats enough to make a huge difference here). Both Curly and Moe have upgraded to breastplate armor, Larry makes a desperate attempt ot hit somebody with his bending attacks by ditching the armor and gaining a +2 from Spritual Training which he has now taken twice.

I'm just going to skip damage since it will be fairly similar to 4th level with level bonus to damage added. That, and this thing is getting long and I want to finish soon.

To-hit:

Larry has had a chance to get weapon focus in both unarmed attacks and bending forms. Unarmed attack increases to +13 (+8 BAB +3 MA3 +1 weapon focus +1 Str). Bending attacks go up to +19 (+8 BAB +3 MA3 +1 weapon focus +2 Spiritual Training +5 Cha).
Curly goes up to +16 (+8 BAB, +2 advanced heavy weapon +1 weapon focus +5 Str).
Moe goes up to +17 (+8 BAB +3 advanced quick weapon +1 weapon focus +5 Dex)

Ref saves:

Larry goes up to 26 (base +3 MA3 +8 level +4 bounty hunter +1 Dex).
Curly goes up to 32 (base +3 MA3 +8 level +4 bounty hunter +3 Dex +4 breastplate).
Moe goes up to 34 (base +3 MA3 +8 level +4 bounty hunter +5 Dex +4 breastplate).

What do they need to hit now?:

Larry with unarmed strikes now needs a 19 or better to hit Curly, a 10% chance. He now needs a natural 20 to hit Moe, a 5% chance. With bending attacks he pulls ahead, but still needs a 13 or better to hit Curly, a 40% chance. He needs a 15 or better to hit Moe, a 30% chance.
Curly now needs a 10 or better to hit Larry, a 55% chance. He now needs a 18 or better to hit Moe, a 15% chance.
Moe now needs a 9 or better to hit Larry, a 60% chance. He now needs a 15 or better to hit Curly, a 30% chance.

Again, Larry and Curly will likely need to revert to ranged wepon attaacks to hit Moe. Larry now has a +11 with ranged weapons and can hit with a natural 20 only, a 5% chance. Curly has a +13 and also needs a natural to hit, a 5% chance.
--------------------------------------

OK then. What have we learned?

While a lot of options are available to boost attack forms there are also quite a few to boost saves. While Ref is the worst offender, all saves start to soar quickly and the differet attack forms are hard pressed to catch up.

Benders: not so great, really. At least not at the moment. They fall behind at first level and continue to play catch-up, burning feats and talents to get results that are generally just as easy to get with other character types, possibly at a lower level.

Dexterity: the must-have stat. It was pretty bad in core SAGA and continues to make things difficult here. You can hit at range, avoid ranged attacks and are still likely to weasel your way out of getting pinned down. One big reason it hurts so bad- next point.

Advanced quick weapons: give a character the option of going almost completely SAD. Dex to damage when thrown is bad (or the same boost to ranged attack options). You don't even need a mediocre Str score.
------------------------------------

Possible fixes:

Give Spiritual Training four forms known and give Spiritual two free forms instead of a free talent (or keep the talent, probably won't be unbalanced at this stage of the game).

Since armor stacks and defenses get boosted so easily cut the class bonus to defenses 1/2 level.

Take away the Dex-to-damage for thrown quick weapons (and the attendant bonuses to grapple and such). Let it revert back to Str. In return they can always be considered to be a finesse weapon (think that will work).


I think that's all. Feel free to rip and tear. But if you target my wonky percentages please give a correction, not just "you're wrong".

EDIT: I'm going to sleep now.

AstralFire
2009-08-12, 12:19 AM
Nothing to rip and tear. It'll take a while for me to do the napkin math, but that post is... extremely valuable, and if it weren't so late, I'd look at it close right now - but as it is, I'd stay up until 3 AM just trying to make corrections and adjustments. So for now I'll say "thanks a lot for the hard work" and take that close look at your suggestions tomorrow.

I don't know where this project would be without the input and contributions from you three, but it wouldn't be good, let me tell you that. Thanks a lot. -hug-

AgentPaper
2009-08-12, 01:42 AM
It's just fun for me. :smalltongue:

Once I get a better handle on the system, (ie, after I make a couple more test builds) I'll see if I can't put the various types of things we want to work into an excel spreadsheet to compare overall damage, factoring in to-hit and crit rules. I'll also see if I can make one to compare the different weapons for each build, both simple and advanced, to see if any are just plain better than all the rest, or just plain worse, and what has to be done to bring them so that each is comparable to the others, or at the least situationally useful.

Also: Meteo (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=145947)

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-12, 07:05 AM
Bah, too wordy. You only had to say that Dexterity-based fighters were SAD, while Strength-based and benders were more MAD (the latter more so).


While a lot of options are available to boost attack forms there are also quite a few to boost saves. While Ref is the worst offender, all saves start to soar quickly and the differet attack forms are hard pressed to catch up.

This, however, is what I've been trying and failing to say.

For all of its TLDR, it made key points in a good way.

PS: What is the duration of Rush?

PPS:

Since armor stacks and defenses get boosted so easily cut the class bonus to defenses 1/2 level.

And gimp benders and noncombatants even more? Leave armor the way it is in the core rules.

AstralFire
2009-08-12, 08:55 AM
Rush lasts a round, though I've considered increasing its duration. Going through giant post now.

AstralFire
2009-08-12, 10:18 AM
Don't Get SAD, Get MAD!

Quick Weapons when Thrown now add Strength to Damage.

Quick weapons can be used with weapon finesse or in a grapple, and critical hit on rolls of 19 or 20. Critical hits on rolls of 19 are not automatic strikes; you must beat the target's reflex defense. Advanced quick weapons include the Butterfly Sword and the Khukri; simple quick weapons include the Dagger and the Kama. When throwing a quick weapon, you may apply the Weapon Finesse feat, should you possess it.

Spiritual Training grants four forms.

Spiritual Training
You learn four new Bender Forms. You may take this feat multiple times, and you may select the same Form more than once in order to allow for multiple uses within the same encounter. Every time you take this feat, you gain a stacking +1 miscellaneous bonus with your bending attacks, to a maximum of +3. You do not gain this benefit to attack rolls while wearing armor or using a shield.
Prerequisite: Spiritual

Spiritual grants some forms to begin with.

Spiritual
You gain the ability to bend forms, along with other benefits listed in the next post. You gain 1 bending talent for which you are eligible, and 2 bending forms of your choice when you first take this feat.
Prerequisites: This feat can only be taken at first level, or with GM approval.

Yielding Reed buffed and placed as a talent for both water and air:

Yielding Reed: If damaged while bending a form (such as from an Attack of Opportunity or a readied action), the form fails to activate only if you take damage in excess of your damage threshold. If a form fails to activate due to damage, it is not considered to be expended.
Requires Endurance as a trained skill.

Fire and Earth picked up Falcon Punch/Boulderfist as a talent:

Falcon Punch: You initiate a form and wait to let its power go until the time is right. Once per round as a swift action, before making a melee attack, you can declare your intent to use this talent. If your attack hits, you immediately use and hit with Move Element against the target. If it does not hit, you still attempt to bend Move Element, but you provoke an attack of opportunity - this is an exception to the rule which typically exempts swift action bending from attacks of opportunity.
Requires Elemental Strike, Move Element.

Some of these are not quite the suggestions you made, Lert. I'm wary of dropping armor across the board for the already vulnerable benders, and this needs to be worked on. The extra talents should offer another option to benders, though it does not quite address all of Foryn's concerns.

Channel the River of Souls is currently in limbo, as the spirit point discussion is taking a backseat to the MAD discussion for now.

AstralFire
2009-08-12, 10:28 AM
Additionally, Open-Minded currently sucks. But I'm not sure how to provide a differentiation between elemental talents right now otherwise. I'll be considering ideas while I eat.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-12, 10:37 AM
I don't support the new Spiritual effect. That's worth about two talents: The Charisma one is like Noble Fencing Style++, with the Wisdom thing tacked on. I think you should bundle a single form with the feat, so that first-level benders can actually bend, and maybe a Charisma or Wisdom effect. EDIT: How about a 1-time bonus to hp equal to the sum of your Charisma and Wisdom modifiers?

Falcon Punch is no risk, yes reward. I think that perhaps it should be declared before the attack: if the attack hits, free move element. If not, then you lose it (or maybe suffer an attack of opportunity when the move element activates, which could combo with Yielding Reed)

Yielding Reed is a talent now. I like it.

I still don't like Earth's Embrace, but it's a minor quibble and I'm still not sure how to word the alternative I have in mind.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-12, 10:44 AM
I want to try and keep the numbers of forms down somewhat - I want to have them be a spectacular resource

A spectacular resource is sort of iffy.

Let us suppose Bender Level 16 with a Move Element. 8d6 damage, averaging to 28, in 12 squares. Put that against a buffed Song-type character with an aimed boomerang: 4d6+6+2*Str mod damage (deadeye, heroic level 12), Prone and -2 condition track if it hits. The Move Element deals 8 more damage. The boomerang takes 1 more swift action, deals -2 condition track, and has more range.

And the characters in the show throw around bending all the time, don't they?

AstralFire
2009-08-12, 11:13 AM
I don't support the new Spiritual effect. That's worth about two talents: The Charisma one is like Noble Fencing Style++, with the Wisdom thing tacked on. I think you should bundle a single form with the feat, so that first-level benders can actually bend, and maybe a Charisma or Wisdom effect. EDIT: How about a 1-time bonus to hp equal to the sum of your Charisma and Wisdom modifiers?

A bonus to HP won't be useful most of the time, because of the condition track game. But I suppose it's not right to stuff an entire fix into one feat awkwardly.

Given your point about damage - originally I'd conceived of damage numbers with the Bender Specialization talents, which no longer exist - Lert's original premise of simply bundling two forms in may be the best one, here. The attack-and-damage talents in Earth and Fire already give a good reason for more martial benders to exist. The question is how we make those accessible to Water and Air with a feat that is less burdensome than Open-Minded...


Falcon Punch is no risk, yes reward. I think that perhaps it should be declared before the attack: if the attack hits, free move element. If not, then you lose it (or maybe suffer an attack of opportunity when the move element activates, which could combo with Yielding Reed)

To be clear - your latter suggestion is:
Declare and use swift action before attack.
If attack misses, can still bend Move Element, but suffer an AoO.
And the AoO can disrupt the attack?


I still don't like Earth's Embrace, but it's a minor quibble and I'm still not sure how to word the alternative I have in mind.

Feel free to fire it at me, pretty wording or not.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-12, 11:18 AM
Idea for a character, and a campaign. This is just sort of random.

Avatar Aang presided over the world for good centuries, collecting exiles and bastards with the potential to teach Airbending to the next Avatar. However, when he died, chaos gripped the world again. The reigning Fire Lord, Ikaizin, faced insurrections from a terrorist group that called themselves the True Reds. Proclaiming an end to the monarchy of the Fire Lord, they started a civil war in the Fire Nation. When the Water Avatar visited the Fire Temple amidst this madness, the True Reds assassinated her. Emboldened by this success, they struck out against many of the gathered airbenders. The next avatar to rise was from the Sand People, and he was profoundly influenced by the ignoble end of the last Avatar. Knowing that he would have to survive the True Reds' aggression until he became fully realized, Avatar Teo used his metalbending and his budding firebending to create unprecedented inventions. Selling some and mass-producing others, he gathered a mercenary army that he styled Team Avatar in homage to Aang's reign. He now searches for more airbenders, to keep that fragile legacy alive.

Campaign Enemy: True Reds
Campaign McGuffin: Airbenders


Avatar Teo, Medium Sand Person Scoundrel 4/Soldier 2/Avatar 4
Spirit Points: ??
Initiative +12
Senses: Perception +12
Destiny Points: 20 (Education destiny)
----------------------------------
Defenses: Reflex 25 (flat-footed 23), Fortitude 25 (27 v. extreme weather), Will 25
Hit Points: 78 (threshold 25)
----------------------------------
Speed: 6 squares
Melee: Unarmed Strike +9 (1d6+5)
Ranged: Pistol +13 (3d6+5, ignore dodge bonuses & armor DT)
BAB/Grapple/Bend: +8/+10/+16
Special Actions: Spiritual Harmony, Synergy
Bending Suite (EBL 12): Rush x2, Refraction, Gust, Armor, Golem, Move Element x4, Tremorsense, Transit
----------------------------------
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 16 [32 point buy]
Special Qualities: Desert Endurance, Sand Cloak, Synergy
Talents: Knack, Fool's Luck, Indomitable, Elemental Strike, Boulderfist, Spiritual Harmony
Feats: Quick Draw, Point Blank Shot, Spiritual (sand, fire, air), Earth Unity, Open-Minded, Spiritual Training x3, Skill Focus (mechanics), Martial Arts I, Weapon Proficiency (pistol)
Skills: Attunement +12, Deception +13, Gather Information +13, Initiative +12, Mechanics +18, Perception +12, Persuasion +13, Stealth +12
Possessions: Pistols, Ammunition

AstralFire
2009-08-12, 11:41 AM
Not bad, though as a fire person, I must confess a twinge of "noooooo" at Firebenders being the bad guys again.

Implemented changes to Spiritual and Falcon Punch/Boulderfist.

More MAD reduction for Benders:

Open-Minded
You may choose your Bender talents from all non-universal disciplines, though you are not granted the ability to bend elements from those disciplines. Additionally, you may use your Wisdom modifier in the place of your Charisma modifier on your bender attack rolls.
Prerequisite: Spiritual.
- For the Wis Leaners, who will use more Bender Talents to get passive effects.


Intensity: You may add your Charisma modifier in addition to your Wisdom modifier when determining your Bender Level.
- For the Cha Leaners, who will use more feats for Spiritual Training.


Greater Bending Focus: You gain a +2 bonus on your bending attack rolls. This bonus does not stack with Weapon Focus (Bending).
Requires Weapon Focus (Bending), Heroic Level 5.
Hopefully, along with the option of going less MAD for more accuracy, this shores up sufficient holes in the bender's chance to hit without going overboard.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-12, 12:05 PM
There's a civil war going on; there's plenty of room for a character to support the Royalists and Czar Fire Lord Ikaizin. The Bolsheviks True Reds also have support in the Earth Nation (some people that just hate their opposed element), which is why they were able to strike so hard against the airbenders. It's just that the Water Tribe in this era has to focus on rebuilding, and the Earth Nation already has all the land they need ("balance" of the four elements? Earth Nation propaganda to justify controlling 70% of the world. >_<)

AstralFire
2009-08-12, 12:21 PM
I can't believe I missed the parallels there. :P Now I'm reading Ikaizin in a Russian accent.

Any thoughts on the latest additions?

AgentPaper
2009-08-12, 12:41 PM
How about this: With the fire nation defeated, the world returns to peace, and avatar Aang vows never to raise his hands in violence again, instead retreating to the Air Nomad's homeland to rebuild and train a new generation of Airbenders.

However, peace has not quite returned in the lands, as the people of the Earth Kingdom, remembering how much the fire nation ravaged their lands, speak of going to war with the fire nation, and removing the evil firebenders from the world once and for all. Some earthen also speak of retribution on the Polar Water Tribe, saying that they stood by and did nothing while the people of the Earth Kingdom suffered.

As for the changes, I haven't gotten around to making a bending-focused build yet, so I don't know if it's balanced or not.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-12, 12:55 PM
A fertile source of inspiration is the equivalent of the old republic. Once all the jedi Airbenders die and an evil empire makes a concerted effort at conquering everything, that really impacts the development and tone of the universe. KOTOR or its equivalent has plenty of room for alternate wars and enemies: The Brotherhood of Darkness, the Exar Kun wars, etc.

AgentPaper
2009-08-12, 01:00 PM
There really are a lot of parallels between Avatar and Star Wars. Airbenders are Jedi, Firebenders are the Empire, the Northern Water Tribe is Hoth, Ba Sing Se is Endor, the giant drill is the Death Star, Aang is Luke, the dead avatars are Obi-Wan and Yoda, etc, etc.

Of course, there's a lot of differences as well, and it definitely has it's own theme going for it, but it's just kinda fun to think about.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-12, 01:08 PM
Ideas:
In the Old Times, when the elements are beginning to separate, the Air Nation fears the aggressively expanding Earth Kingdom. Their raiders are conducting a hit-and-run guerilla war using the newly invented crossbow, and have brought the people of Earth to their knees. They now look upon the jealous Fire Nation and the fearful Water Tribes as new targets...

Backed by the power of a mad Avatar, the Northern Water Tribe has claimed the seas. Now, with the Fire Nation's islands cut off from communication with the Earth Kingdom, they seek to extinguish the Fire Nation from the coastline in.'

In the aftermath of Pheonix King Ozai's attempt to burn the Earth Kingdom, the Si Wong Desert has expanded rapidly. The sandbenders within are growing more ambitious, attacking border towns and burning everything green to hasten the desertification. The disorganized Earth Kingdom and its depleted army can do little to resist the concerted assault, and Avatar Aang has mysteriously disappeared to the Spirit World...

PS: Please, don't insert a Vong equivalent into Avatar. >_<

AgentPaper
2009-08-12, 01:39 PM
Hmm, minions don't seem to be all that....good. I'd recommend changing the Crime Lord class, so that instead of getting a talent every level, (which seems weird and unnecessary) they get a talent every odd level, as normal, and a non-heroic minion at every even level. This minion should have nonheroic levels equal to the character level of the Crime Lord, or maybe twice the Crime Lord's class level. They're still little more than cannon fodder, but at least they might stand a chance of contributing.

If you did that, I'd also change the Attract Minion feature to be Attract Cohort or something, which replaces one of your normal minons with a cohort. Cohorts would be special in that half of their levels are heroic levels instead of non-heroic.

AstralFire
2009-08-12, 01:48 PM
Pet mechanics are notoriously hard to balance. Let's take a look, but given that it's not a focus of the setting, I'm more focused on the other stuff first.

AstralFire
2009-08-12, 04:22 PM
{table=head]Sts | Yu Yan | Katara | Ty Lee | Zuko | Mai
Str | 15 | 08 | 16 | 10 | 10
Dex | 17 | 11 | 16 | 15 | 18
Con | 10 | 10 | 10 | 14 | 10
Int | 11 | 12 | 10 | 10 | 10
Wis | 10 | 14 | 10 | 15 | 14
Cha | 08 | 17 | 10 | 10 | 08[/table]

Yu Yan is a Fire Nation archer. Wears Hide Armor. To-Hits assume common circumstance, like point blank range.
ET = 'Effective Threshold Value'. The 'x2' or 'x3' indicates the number of steps brought down by direct damage, a +1 or +2 indicates extra steps brought down from non damage features.
Skills are Ath, Init, Perc - picks up Surv when Int raises a point.

Formatting and spelling is irregular because I did this in a fixed width text editor and I needed to abbr. to get things to line up right.

{table=head] | Class | StatUp | HP | BAB (AvgHit) | Feats | Talents | AvgDmg (ET) | Fort (DT) | Ref | Will
01 | Soldier 1 | | 30 | +1 (15) | W. Focus | Devastating Atk| 12.5 (17.5)x1 | 13 (15) | 15 | 11
02 | Scout 1 | | 34.5 | +1 (15) | | Acute Senses | 13.5 (18.5)x1 | 14 (16) | 17 | 12
03 | Scout 2 | | 39 | +2 (17) | F. Shot, PB Shot | | 15.5 (20.5)x1 | 15 (17) | 18 | 13
04 | Scout 3 |18 Dx[br]12 Int| 43.5 | +3 (19) | | Keen Shot | 16.5 (21.5)x1 | 16 (18) | 20 | 14
05 | Soldier 2 | | 49 | +4 (20) | Precise Shot | | 16.5 (21.5)x1 | 17 (19) | 21 | 15
06 | Soldier 3 | | 54.5 | +5 (21) | Deadeye | Penetrating Atk| 21 (31)x1 | 18 (20) | 22 | 16
07 | Soldier 4 | | 60 | +6 (23) | C. Shot | | 21 (31)x1 | 19 (21) | 23 | 17
08 | Scout 4 |19 Dx[br]16 Str| 64.5 | +7 (24) | Quick Draw | | 22 (32)x1 | 20 (22) | 24 | 18
09 | TThrower 1 | | 69 | +8 (25) | Sniper |Debilitating Sht| 22 (32)x1+1 | 21 (23) | 27 | 21
10 | TThrower 2 | | 73.5 | +9 (26) | T. Sidearm +1| | 24 (34)x1+1 | 22 (24) | 28 | 22
11 | TThrower 3 | | 78 | +10 (27) | | Knockdown Shot | 24 (34)x1+1 | 23 (25) | 29 | 23
12 | TThrower 4 |20 Dx[br]11 Con| 82.5 | +11 (29) | S. Strength | T. Sidearm +2 | 26 (36)x1+1 | 24 (26) | 31 | 24[/table]


Katara is a 'caster' bender.
Ty Lee is a melee specialist.
Zuko is a 'gish' bender.
Mai is a thrower.

Their tables aren't done yet because god this takes a while.

AgentPaper
2009-08-12, 05:23 PM
By the way, I think you might have meant to have Armor Mastery as a pre-requisite for Improved Armored Defense instead of Second Skin.

AstralFire
2009-08-12, 05:39 PM
By the way, I think you might have meant to have Armor Mastery as a pre-requisite for Improved Armored Defense instead of Second Skin.

IAD seemed better than before, so I intended to make them both prereqs.

AgentPaper
2009-08-12, 05:45 PM
IAD seemed better than before, so I intended to make them both prereqs.

Well, Armor Mastery, an already poor feat compared to Second Skin (giving a +1 bonus to Reflex IF you have enough dex, compared to a flat +1 bonus to reflex and fort) becomes useless when you have Improved Armored Defense, since Dex limits are just plain removed. If you required Armor Mastery to pick up Improved Armored Defense (which would also require you pick up Armored Defense, as a pre-req for Armor Mastery) then at least it would serve the purpose of allowing you to get to a powerful talent.

AgentPaper
2009-08-12, 05:49 PM
Oh, and for theorycrafting purposes, what's should we expect as for "normal" enemy defenses at each level? Just what a non-heroic character of that level would have?

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-12, 05:57 PM
I'm using level+2 for those weak in the area and level+4 otherwise. These numbers increase by 1 at 8th level.

Earth's Embrace: An Earthen is exceptionally stable, and thus gains a +5 bonus on opposed rolls to avoid falling prone. If no roll is normally allowed to oppose the knockdown effect, the Earthen is allowed to make an opposed unarmed attack roll with the +5 bonus. On a success, the effect does not knock the Earthen prone.

AstralFire
2009-08-12, 05:57 PM
Oh, and for theorycrafting purposes, what's should we expect as for "normal" enemy defenses at each level? Just what a non-heroic character of that level would have?

Heroic level character, so ideally, around a 50% chance. I'll have to finish the rest of the numbers tomorrow, my brain's collapsing on me. Or maybe later tonight.


Earth's Embrace: An Earthen is exceptionally stable, and thus gains a +5 bonus on opposed rolls to avoid falling prone. If no roll is normally allowed to oppose the knockdown effect, the Earthen is allowed to make an opposed unarmed attack roll with the +5 bonus. On a success, the effect does not knock the Earthen prone.

I like. I like very much. I'll edit this in, in a bit.

AgentPaper
2009-08-12, 06:42 PM
Well, I think we should probably try and normalize the attack rolls and defenses, instead of the wild and wacky way that Saga seems to be going for. For example, let's assume we want everyone's defenses to scale with each other about normally. Let's also assume you can either be good, bad, or average at hitting and at defending. If someone average at hitting attacks someone average at defending, we want them to have about a 50% chance of hitting. If someone good at hitting attacks someone good at defending, there should again be about a 50% chance of hitting. However, if someone bad at hitting attacks someone good at defending, we don't want them to be able to hit as well, but they should still be able to hit, let's say about 30% of the time.

For all of this to work, all you have to do it make it so if a class is "good" at hitting, it's got about a +4 to hit compared to a "normal" class, and if it's "bad" at hitting, it's got a -4 to hit compared to a "normal" class. Same thing for defenses, a class that's "Bad" at defense has 4 less Reflex Defense, while one that's "Good" has 4 more points of Reflex Defense.

Now, if we take this in relation to our classes: The Soldier might be good at defense and average at hitting, the Scout and Scoundrel are good at hitting and average at defense, and the Noble might be average at hitting and bad at defense.

Importantly, though, is that a player shouldn't ever have to spend talents or feats to get a bonus to-hit or to improve defenses, because that will basically amount to a feat tax. For example, every single character that uses a weapon will take weapon focus. It's just that important to hit stuff. Not only is it a boring feat, but it keeps you from taking a more interesting feat. Something like Weapon Specialization is a good example in talent form. Every soldier will take it, because it's always useful no matter what. Feats and talents should be situational, but useful. More importantly, they should be interesting. Players don't want to have to read through a hundred pages of text to find out how to make an effective character, they should be able to make an interesting, useful character just by picking what's cool. He shouldn't have to worry about feat traps. (coughcoughdodgecough)

Really, though, SW: Saga Edition just plain doesn't seem like all that good of a system in general. It's got all the same problems that 3.5 does, and doesn't really seem to add anything new or interesting. I'd vote we base it off 4E, but really it might be easier if we just start from scratch.

AstralFire
2009-08-12, 06:45 PM
If we're looking at such a radical redesign, here's my first proposal - ditch BAB, make it a flat modifier, instead of something that goes up as a 'rate.'

AgentPaper
2009-08-12, 06:53 PM
If we're looking at such a radical redesign, here's my first proposal - ditch BAB, make it a flat modifier, instead of something that goes up as a 'rate.'

BaB could basically just be replaces by making it so everyone adds half their level to attacks and defenses, or their level.

Really though, if we're willing to go that far, then as I edited in above, we really may as well start a new system from scratch, though we could definitely borrow heavily from other systems. (4E seems a good candidate, though using that system wholesale would probably be a bad idea, because of it's focus on fighting monsters, not NPCs with PC classes)

AstralFire
2009-08-12, 06:55 PM
BaB could basically just be replaces by making it so everyone adds half their level to attacks and defenses, or their level.

Really though, if we're willing to go that far, then as I edited in above, we really may as well start a new system from scratch, though we could definitely borrow heavily from other systems. (4E seems a good candidate, though using that system wholesale would probably be a bad idea, because of it's focus on fighting monsters, not NPCs with PC classes)

Nah, Saga has some good usages as a base - I don't want to go so radical as to build from scratch. The talent and multiclassing structure works out pretty well, we're just stretching and adding to it.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-12, 06:58 PM
Really though, if we're willing to go that far, then as I edited in above, we really may as well start a new system from scratch, though we could definitely borrow heavily from other systems.

I'd have to agree. However, I don't think we should ditch Avatar Saga. You already have Avatar 3.5, and for all that system's eccentricities it hasn't been scrapped in favor of a radical redesign. Keep an Avatar system backwards compatible with Saga, keep a separate Avatar 4e project; and if we're going to build a sequel to Avatar d20 with revised, streamlined rules; do that then. I don't think we should depart so radically from Saga edition now. None of these problems are insurmountable - Saga functions well enough with them, after all.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-12, 07:07 PM
If someone average at hitting attacks someone average at defending, we want them to have about a 50% chance of hitting.
Flawed premise IMO - it should be somewhere around 30%, 25%. There's a lot of dodging in the show.


For example, every single character that uses a weapon will take weapon focus. It's just that important to hit stuff.
How many Saga edition characters take Weapon Focus (heavy weapons)? Those do a lot more damage than these Avatar Weapons, so hitting should be more crucial - yet they're ignoring the feat tax.



Something like Weapon Specialization is a good example in talent form. Every soldier will take it, because it's always useful no matter what. Feats and talents should be situational, but useful.
Situational, but useful as opposed to constant, but mediocre. Weapon Specialization is mediocre, at least in appearance.


Pardon me if these arguments don't connect, I'm a bit spacey. I'll go watch Avatar to brainstorm.

AstralFire
2009-08-12, 07:08 PM
I think Foryn's right. I don't quite have the energy to start from scratch with a whole new system, and the core's proven pretty flexible. I'll post more detailed thoughts later... I'm kind of in a chillax and listen to music mood.

AgentPaper
2009-08-12, 07:09 PM
Nah, Saga has some good usages as a base - I don't want to go so radical as to build from scratch. The talent and multiclassing structure works out pretty well, we're just stretching and adding to it.

Well, the idea behind talents are good, same with feats, but I don't really think the talents themselves are all that good, for example the entire Armor Specialist line, except for maybe Juggernaut, is basically one big boost to Reflex Defense. Though the Brawler and Commando talent trees are somewhat better.

Also, you really should probably add a bender and/or martial artist base class, and perhaps a specialized bending PrC. (or even one for each element)

AgentPaper
2009-08-12, 07:15 PM
Flawed premise IMO - it should be somewhere around 30%, 25%. There's a lot of dodging in the show.


How many Saga edition characters take Weapon Focus (heavy weapons)? Those do a lot more damage than these Avatar Weapons, so hitting should be more crucial - yet they're ignoring the feat tax.


Situational, but useful as opposed to constant, but mediocre. Weapon Specialization is mediocre, at least in appearance.


Pardon me if these arguments don't connect, I'm a bit spacey. I'll go watch Avatar to brainstorm.

They do dodge a lot, but I think HP is supposed to represent that more than Reflex Defense. And the only reason someone wouldn't take Weapon Focus would be if they aren't worried about missing. And if that's the case, then you probably have bigger issues than feat taxes.

And if you're worried about the work load of creating a system from scratch, it's really not as much as you would think, especially if you're borrowing heavily from other systems. You just have to make a number of key decisions, and a lot of it just falls together. And if nothing else, I at least would be willing to do a lot of the basic groundwork. I've had some practice working on a system of my own. (though that system was designed for use on a computer, and so is more complicated)

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-12, 07:28 PM
And the only reason someone wouldn't take Weapon Focus would be if they aren't worried about missing.

Tell that to 3.5 players. Weapon Focus gives a average bonus of (weapon damage)/20 per round, which is around 1 damage per round. Several things are more useful than that



You just have to make a number of key decisions, and a lot of it just falls together.

And if you make those decisions wrong? Saga framework is adequate, at least, and the current playtest is already at a decently finished level. Let's get our affairs in order here before moving on.

PS: The responses to http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=19250525 might be enlightening or mind-changing.

Lert, A.
2009-08-12, 09:28 PM
Bah, too wordy. You only had to say that Dexterity-based fighters were SAD, while Strength-based and benders were more MAD (the latter more so).

You would never want to read my doctoral theses then (especially the first two since they were in Russian).


And gimp benders and noncombatants even more? Leave armor the way it is in the core rules.

I was planning to suggest a universal benting talent to assist with that, but I had a need of sleep.

I Can't Believe I Just Said That
<rewind>...<play>Maybe we can take something useful from the Monk.
Prerequisites: Wis 13+, Spiritual
Benefit: You may add your Wisdom modifier as a dodge bonus to your Reflex Defense so long as you are not wearing armor. A situation that makes you lose your Dexterity bonus to Reflex Defense (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses.

And the follow up (to keep a balance with armor talents).

Abs of Steel (yes, these are just working names)
You have fused mind and body as one.
Prerequisites: Spiritual Training x2, Sense Atman, I Can't Believe I Just Said That
Benefit: You may add your Wisdom bonus as an armor bonus to your Reflex Defense so long as you are not wearing armor. Unlike dodge bonuses, you do not lose your armor bonus to Defense in a situation that makes you lose your Dexterity Bonus to Reflex Defense. In addition, you may add your Dexterity bonus (if any) to your Will Defense.

Hey, Will Defense gets the short end of the stick (especially with the 1/2 heroic level to defenses as I am suggesting). Also, there is a serious expendature needed to get to this talent (1 talent, 4 feats total).

[EDIT(Actually, on further reflection, that is not such a great idea, amybe a +2 to speed when unarmored instead of Ref to Will. Will is the hardest hit in my scenario though, often getting targeted by skill tolls which pull out ahead with training and Focus.]


Now then, to make Attunement a little more friendly, and Sense Atman a better feat choice.

Sense Lifeforce: not so hot. You have to spend a full round to see bender level of one creature/person (not sure about how useful yin/yang will be when it gets implemented). I would suggest a standard action, or a full round to sense bender levels of everyone within range, plus another full round to sense all yin/yang mixture. Just how I see it at the moment since there are arguably better things you can do with that full round.

As for Sense Atman, I could again see a standard action being useful, or the full round action to also Sense Lifeforce. I don't see a problem with allowing a Perception roll to notice the creature if another full round action is used to do so, though I would allow the creature full concealment for such a roll.

That's how I see it right now. Yin/yang could possibly change everything. I don't know.

Hope these ideas help to stimulate thought.

AstralFire
2009-08-13, 02:16 PM
Alright, I've been afraid to hit the numbers - going to jump into them now.

sofawall
2009-08-13, 02:42 PM
Ohmygosh it's AstralFire!

AstralFire
2009-08-13, 08:07 PM
Ohmygosh it's AstralFire!

Damn straight! :smallcool::cool::smallcool:

PATCH NOTE:
Deflect Attack stripped of its attack penalty.
Sifu requirements made easier.
New Class Starting Feat Packages:

- Nobles begin play with Weapon Proficiency (Simple) and Skill Focus in one skill of their choice, or with the Martial Arts I and II feats and Skill Focus in one skill of their choice. This replaces their usual starting feat list.
- Scoundrels begin play with Weapon Proficiency (Simple) or with the Martial Arts I and II feats. Regardless of choice, they also gain Quick Draw and Point-Blank Shot as starting feats. This replaces their usual starting feat list.
- Scouts begin play with Weapon Proficiencies (Simple, Advanced) or with the Martial Arts I-III feats. Regardless of choice, they also gain Shake It Off as a starting feat. This replaces their usual starting feat list.
- Soldiers begin play with Weapon Proficiencies (Simple, Advanced) and Armor Proficiency (Light), or with the Martial Arts I-III feats and the Dodge feat. This replaces their usual starting feat list. Add Survival to the Soldier's class skill list.
New Multiclassing Rule: When multiclassing into a second class, you may forfeit the usual feat and instead gain Skill Training in one of that class' skills.
New Wording of Falcon Punch/Boulderfist: You initiate a form and wait to let its power go until the time is right. Once per round as a swift action before making a melee attack, you can declare your intent to use this talent. In order to do so, you must expend one usage of Move Element from your bending suite. If your attack hits, you can add your Move Element damage to your melee attack. If it does not hit, you provoke an attack of opportunity from the target.
Requires Elemental Strike, Move Element.

This wording is to help overcome Damage Threshold.

{table=head] | Stats | Yu Yan | Katara | Ty Lee | Zuko | Mai
1| Str | 15 | 08 | 16 | 15 | 10
2| Dex | 17 | 11 | 16 | 10 | 18
3| Con | 10 | 10 | 10 | 14 | 10
4| Int | 11 | 12 | 10 | 12 | 10
5| Wis | 10 | 14 | 10 | 14 | 14
6| Cha | 08 | 17 | 10 | 10 | 08[/table]

ET = 'Effective Threshold Value'. The 'x2' or 'x3' indicates the number of steps brought down by direct damage, a +1 or +2 indicates extra steps brought down from non damage features. 's' indicates stun damage.

Formatting and spelling is irregular because I did this in a fixed width text editor and I needed to abbr. to get things to line up right.

Yu Yan
Fire Nation
Wears: Hide armor.
Skills: Athletics, Initiative, Perception. Picks up Survival when his Intelligence increases.
Special: To-Hits assume common circumstance, like point blank range, and being allowed to aim.
{table=head] | Class | StatUp | HP | BAB (AvgHit) | Feats | Talents | AvgDmg (ET) | Fort (DT) | Ref | Will
01 | Soldier 1 | | 30 | +1 (15) | W. Focus | Devastating Atk| 12.5 (17.5)x1 | 13 (15) | 15 | 11
02 | Scout 1 | | 34.5 | +1 (15) | | Acute Senses | 13.5 (18.5)x1 | 14 (16) | 17 | 12
03 | Scout 2 | | 39 | +2 (17) | F. Shot, PB Shot | | 15.5 (20.5)x1 | 15 (17) | 18 | 13
04 | Scout 3 |18 Dx12 Int| 43.5 | +3 (19) | | Keen Shot | 16.5 (21.5)x1 | 16 (18) | 20 | 14
05 | Soldier 2 | | 49 | +4 (20) | Precise Shot | | 16.5 (21.5)x1 | 17 (19) | 21 | 15
06 | Soldier 3 | | 54.5 | +5 (21) | Deadeye | Penetrating Atk| 21 (31)x1 | 18 (20) | 22 | 16
07 | Soldier 4 | | 60 | +6 (23) | C. Shot | | 21 (31)x1 | 19 (21) | 23 | 17
08 | Scout 4 |19 Dx[br]16 Str| 64.5 | +7 (24) | Quick Draw | | 22 (32)x1 | 20 (22) | 24 | 18
09 | TThrower 1 | | 69 | +8 (25) | Sniper |Debilitating Sht| 22 (32)x1+1 | 21 (23) | 27 | 21
10 | TThrower 2 | | 73.5 | +9 (26) | T. Sidearm +1| | 24 (34)x1+1 | 22 (24) | 28 | 22
11 | TThrower 3 | | 78 | +10 (27) | | Knockdown Shot | 24 (34)x1+1 | 23 (25) | 29 | 23
12 | TThrower 4 |20 Dx[br]11 Con| 82.5 | +11 (29) | S. Strength | T. Sidearm +2 | 26 (36)x1+1 | 24 (26) | 31 | 24[/table]

[b]Katara
Polar Tribe
Skills: Athletics, Attunement, Endurance, Perception, Survival
Special: Katara's second entries for Average Hit and Reflex Defense indicate while using Active Defense and Fighting Defensively.
{table=head] | Class | StatUp | HP | BAB (AvgHit) | Feats | Talents | AvgDmg (ET) | Fort (DT) | Ref | Will
01 | Scout 1 | | 24 | +0 (13) | Spiritual |DefAtk; Intensit| 10.5 (10.5)x1 | 12 (12) | 18 | 13
02 | Scout 2 | | 28.5 | +1 (14/12) | A. Defense | | 10.5 (10.5)x1 | 13 (13) | 19/24 | 14
03 | Soldier 1 | | 34 | +2 (16/14) | S. Training | Frost Shock | 14 (14)x1 | 15 (15) | 20/25 | 15
04 | Soldier 2 |18 Cha14 Dex| 39.5 | +3 (19/17) | W. Focus | | 14 (14)x1 | 16 (16) | 22/27 | 16
05 | Soldier 3 | | 45 | +4 (20/18) | | Waveform | 14 (14)x1 | 17 (17) | 23/28 | 17
06 | Soldier 4 | | 50.5 | +5 (22/20) | S. Training | | 20 (20)x1 | 18 (18) | 24/29 | 18
07 | Soldier 5 | | 56 | +6 (23/21) | | Redirect | 20 (20)x1 | 19 (19) | 25/30 | 19
08 | Sifu 1 |19 Cha[br]15 Wis| 59.5 | +7 (24/22) | | Yielding Reed | 20 (20)x1 | 21 (21) | 27/32 | 23
09 | Sifu 2 | | 63 | +8 (26/24) | S. Training | | 20 (20)x1 | 22 (22) | 28/33 | 24
10 | Sifu 3 | | 66.5 | +9 (27/25) | | Healing Waters | 28 (28)x1 | 23 (23) | 29/34 | 25
11 | Sifu 4 | | 70 | +10 (28/26) | | | 28 (28)x1 | 24 (24) | 30/35 | 26
12 | Sifu 5 |20 Cha[br]16 Wis| 73.5 | +11 (31/29) | PB Shot | Spirit Harmony | 36 (36)x1 | 25 (25) | 31/36 | 27[/table]

[b]Ty Lee
Fire Nation
Skills: Athletics, Attunement, Initiative, Acrobatics with Multiclass
Special: Ty Lee's second entries for Average Hit indicate with Acrobatic Strike.
{table=head] | Class | StatUp | HP | BAB (AvgHit) | Feats | Talents | AvgDmg (ET) | Fort (DT) | Ref | Will
01 | Soldier 1 | | 30 | +1 (17) | W. Focus |Devastating Atk | 10 (15)x1 | 13 (13) | 15 | 11
02 | Scoundrel 1 | | 33.5 | +1 (17) | |Knack | 11 (16)x1 | 14 (14) | 17 | 13
03 | Soldier 2 | | 39 | +2 (18/23) |A.Strike;I.Def| | 11 (16)x1 | 16 (16) | 19 | 15
04 | Soldier 3 |17 Str11 Con| 44.5 | +3 (19/24) | |Penetrating Atk | 12 (22)x1 | 17 (17) | 20 | 16
05 | Soldier 4 | | 50 | +4 (20/25) |Bantha Rush | | 12 (22)x1 | 18 (18) | 21 | 17
06 | Soldier 5 | | 55.5 | +5 (21/26) | |Melee Smash | 14 (24)x1 | 19 (19) | 22 | 18
07 | Soldier 6 | | 68 | +6 (22/27) |Toughness | | 14 (24)x1 | 20 (20) | 23 | 19
08 | Sifu 1 |18 Str[br]12 Con| 80.5 | +7 (24/29) | |Stunning Fist | 16 (26)x2s | 23 (23) | 25 | 23
09 | Sifu 2 | | 86 | +8 (25/30) |I. Threshold | | 16 (26)x2s | 23 (28) | 26 | 24
10 | E.Trooper 1 | | 94.5 | +9 (26/31) | |W. Specialize | 19 (29)x2s | 25 (30) | 27 | 25
11 | E.Trooper 2 | | 103 | +10 (27/32) | |DR 1/- | 19 (29)x2s | 26 (31) | 28 | 26
12 | E.Trooper 3 |19 Str[br]13 Con| 111.5 | +11 (28/33) |I. Threshold |Stunning Strike | 20 (30)x3s | 27 (37) | 29 | 27[/table]

[b]Zuko
Sun Warrior
Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Attunement, Initiative, Stealth, Survival
Special: Zuko's second entries for Average Damage indicate with Falcon Punch. Second entries for Average Hit indicate with Acrobatic Strike.
{table=head] | Class | StatUp | HP | BAB (AvgHit) | Feats | Talents | AvgDmg (ET) | Fort (DT) | Ref | Will
01 | Scout 1 | | 26 | +0 (15) | Spiritual |E.Strike; FalPun| 9 (9)x1; 16 (16)x1 | 14 (14) | 14 | 13
02 | Soldier 1 | | 33.5 | +1 (16) | |Deflect Attack | 10 (10)x1; 20 (20)x1 | 16 (16) | 20 | 14
03 | Soldier 2 | | 41 | +2 (18) |WF; OpenMind | | 10 (10)x1; 20 (20)x1 | 17 (17) | 21 | 15
04 | Soldier 3 |16 Str[br]15 Con| 48.5 | +3 (20) | |Phoenix | 12 (12)x1; 22 (22)x1 | 18 (18) | 22 | 16
05 | Soldier 4 | | 56 | +4 (21/26) |Acro Strike | | 12 (12)x1; 22 (22)x1 | 19 (19) | 23 | 17
06 | Soldier 5 | | 63.5 | +5 (22/27) |I. Threshold |Redirect | 13 (13)x1; 27 (27)x1 | 20 (25) | 24 | 18
07 | Soldier 6 | | 71 | +6 (23/28) |Bantha Rush | | 13 (13)x1; 27 (27)x1 | 21 (26) | 25 | 19
08 | Sifu 1 |17 Str[br]16 Con| 84.5 | +7 (24/29) | |Devastating Atk | 14 (19)x1; 27 (32)x1 | 24 (29) | 27 | 23
09 | Sifu 2 | | 91 | +8 (25/30) |Spiritual | | 14 (19)x1; 27 (32)x1 | 25 (30) | 28 | 24
10 | Sifu 3 | | 97.5 | +9 (26/31) | |Penetrating Atk | 15 (25)x1; 36 (46)x1 | 26 (31) | 29 | 25
11 | Sifu 4 | | 104 | +10 (27/32) | | | 15 (25)x1; 36 (46)x1 | 27 (32) | 30 | 26
12 | Sifu 5 |18 Str[br]17 Con| 110.5 | +11 (29/34) |I. Threshold |W. Specialize | 18 (28)x1; 39 (49)x1 | 28 (38) | 31 | 27[/table]

Their tables aren't done yet because god this takes a while.

From preliminary examination, 'caster benders' appear to be in better shape than before. However, they have a bit more rocky of a progression. Both Zuko and Katara start out weaker, but by the time they get to a higher level, they seem to be slightly outperforming non. Mai and Sokka, ranged non-benders, are next.

AstralFire
2009-08-14, 07:48 AM
Just looking at these tables, 50% miss chance seems to be the norm, and I worry that dropping improvement to defenses will really make Rhetorical Techniques too useful, even with the suggested feats/talents proposed by Lert. So far, Reflex Defense seems to be fine for our benders thanks to unnerfing Deflect Attack; it gives a relatively huge boost to Reflex Defense against one target who's not in a position to drop a flurry of strikes against you.

Updated Sense Lifeforce to a move action. Sense Atman is now:

You can sense sources of chi. As a standard action, you can become aware of the presence of any creatures within a range in meters equal to their effective bender level squared, though in a place teeming with animal or human life, creatures that are not extremely exceptional in strength can quickly become 'drowned out' in background noise. If you perform this ability as a full-round action instead, you can attempt to Sense Lifeforce against a single creature detected, rolling your Attunement skill against their Will Defense. If your skill roll exceeds their Will Defense by 10 or more, you also learn their approximate location (within 1 square).
Prerequisite: Attunement as a trained skill.

Yin-Yang won't change everything; it'll have slightly more impact on the game than 4E's alignment system, but only slightly, which is why I haven't pushed it so far in this mechanical melange of work.

AgentPaper
2009-08-14, 01:57 PM
Hmm, how does Devastating Form/Twin Form interact with Falcon Strike/Boulderfist? Can you use either of them to increase the damage done by the Move Element bonus damage?

Also, is Twin Form just plain better than Devastating Form, or can you only use Twin Form to target something other than the original attack? And if it's the latter, how does this work with area attacks?

AstralFire
2009-08-14, 02:07 PM
Hmm, how does Devastating Form/Twin Form interact with Falcon Strike/Boulderfist? Can you use either of them to increase the damage done by the Move Element bonus damage?

Also, is Twin Form just plain better than Devastating Form, or can you only use Twin Form to target something other than the original attack? And if it's the latter, how does this work with area attacks?

Twin Form is more power, but expends two of your forms for the round, which can be problematic if you don't have many of them. This was more of a limitation earlier on. It also doesn't help you overcome Damage Threshold if you can't already get over that hump, though if you can, Twin Form gives you a chance to knock someone down the track twice a round. With the current proliferation of forms, I'd say Twin Form is superior in most practical cases.

Since level 13 is when the game's 'second tier' kicks in, I've been stopping at level 12 so far - the mechanics that make the game more powerful from that point on are easy to separate from the lower level ones. At the moment, I suspect I'll make F. Punch incompatible but add a greater version with minor knockback and the ability to knock someone down two steps on the track.

Lert, A.
2009-08-14, 06:00 PM
Ohmygosh it's AstralFire!

Damn straight! :smallcool::cool::smallcool:
And Lert, A.! (Plucky Comic Relief) :wink::smallbiggrin::thog:

Nice new changes, especially the addressing of quick rising Defense.


New Wording of Falcon Punch/Boulderfist: You initiate a form and wait to let its power go until the time is right. Once per round as a swift action before making a melee attack, you can declare your intent to use this talent. In order to do so, you must expend one usage of Move Element from your bending suite. If your attack hits, you can add your Move Element damage to your melee attack. If it does not hit, you provoke an attack of opportunity from the target.
Requires Elemental Strike, Move Element.

Like.


Updated Sense Lifeforce to a move action. Sense Atman is now:

You can sense sources of chi. As a standard action, you can become aware of the presence of any creatures within a range in meters equal to their effective bender level squared, though in a place teeming with animal or human life, creatures that are not extremely exceptional in strength can quickly become 'drowned out' in background noise. If you perform this ability as a full-round action instead, you can attempt to Sense Lifeforce against a single creature detected, rolling your Attunement skill against their Will Defense. If your skill roll exceeds their Will Defense by 10 or more, you also learn their approximate location (within 1 square).
Prerequisite: Attunement as a trained skill.

Yay! Usefulness!

Now all that need to be done is adding cliched lines like, "Your kung-fu is weak." or "It's over 9000!!!"


Yin-Yang won't change everything; it'll have slightly more impact on the game than 4E's alignment system, but only slightly, which is why I haven't pushed it so far in this mechanical melange of work.

I shall wait with keen anticipation. Sort of. (I hate alignments in general. Alignment killed my dog. Very sad.)

AstralFire
2009-08-14, 06:35 PM
And Lert, A.! (Plucky Comic Relief) :wink::smallbiggrin::thog:

Nice new changes, especially the addressing of quick rising Defense.

Well, I haven't actually done much in that regard, just put the benders on an even field. I suspect we'll see a bit higher than a 50% hit rate in practice, though, thanks to Spirit Points, special abilities, and situational things. So I'd say we're in good shape.


Now all that need to be done is adding cliched lines like, "Your kung-fu is weak." or "It's over 9000!!!"

I'll... think about it. :P


I shall wait with keen anticipation. Sort of. (I hate alignments in general. Alignment killed my dog. Very sad.)

This one shouldn't be that bad. Currently the current concept is pretty simple. Eum, Yang, Taiji, Wuji.

Eum is receptive, yielding, negative, and nurturing. It is associated with night, valleys, rivers, streams, water, metal, and earth.
Yang is active, dominating, positive, and initiating/creating. Yang is associated with day, mountains, hills, fire, wood, and air.
Taiji describes your overall strength in Eum and Yang put together, and is not an independent stat. Someone has Taiji if they have high values of both Eum and Yang. Taiji is independence of thought and self.
Wuji is the default state of the universe and a new being. Someone who is close to Wuji is not consciously passive; they sublimate their self into greater existence. Wuji is nothingness.

AstralFire
2009-08-14, 09:36 PM
Airbenders picked up the following new talent and feat:

Repulse: As a standard action, you can give up one of your Move Element uses for the encounter and instead explode in a burst of high winds. All creatures within 6 squares of you are pushed 3 squares away from you, in the most direct route possible.

Twinkletoes
You are exceptionally light on your feet. You have total concealment against creatures using tremorsense to detect you, as well as any creature trying to detect you purely by the sound of your movements.
Special: Airbenders may select this as a bonus feat, even if it is not normally on their class bonus feat list.

In return for losing a talent (Kinetic Grace).

Several feats, including Sense Atman, are now included below.

Skill Stunts
Skill stunts are a part of the system designed to open up a second tier of abilities which only a true specialist can master. They are not all exceptionally difficult in concept or execution; many are maneuvers which can be easily pulled off by anyone who's spent sufficient time learning them. Only someone with the Skill Focus feat in a skill can attempt one of these usages.

Acrobatics
Kinetic Grace: You can traverse a wall or even a liquid surface as long as you begin and end your turn on a solid, horizontal surface. The height you can achieve on a wall is limited only by this movement restriction. If you do not end your move on a solid, horizontal surface, you fall prone (or into the liquid), taking falling damage as appropriate, if any. If you run over a hazardous surface such as lava, you take normal exposure damage for that round. Treat the wall or liquid as a normal floor for the purpose of measuring your movement. Passing from floor to wall or water costs no movement; you can change surfaces freely. You provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for all movement.
Skywalker: When Balancing across a surface, you can take a penalty of 5 to your skill check in order to move your full speed.

Athletics
Leap of the Clouds: You're always considered to have a running start on jumps, and do not need a pole vault to maximize your High Jumps.
Rockhop: You can move a single square as a swift action. This movement provokes no attacks of opportunity.
Speed Swimmer: By taking a -10 penalty on the check, you can swim your speed as a full-round action, or half your speed as a move action.
Wall Jump: When leaping onto a wall, you can directly ascend the distance given in your Jump check, then climb half your speed up the wall as a move action. You can leap from wall to wall if two are within reach of each other. You must make the climb DC for a given wall for this stunt to function.

Attunement
Blindfight: As a full-round action, you can concentrate on a single creature who opposes you. For the rest of the encounter, you treat his concealment against you as less effective, halving your penalty to attack and skill rolls against that one target. (Round down.) If you select a new target, your benefits against the old one disappear.
Sense Atman: You can sense sources of chi. As a standard action, you can become aware of the presence of any creatures within a range in meters equal to their effective bender level squared, though in a place teeming with animal or human life, creatures that are not extremely exceptional in strength can quickly become 'drowned out' in background noise. If you perform this ability as a full-round action instead, you can attempt to Sense Lifeforce against a single creature detected, rolling your Attunement skill against their Will Defense. If your skill roll exceeds their Will Defense by 10 or more, you also learn their approximate location (within 1 square).

Deception
Deception has no Focus only uses because of the Rhetorical Training system.

Endurance
Diehard: The first time in an encounter you would ordinarily be knocked down 1 step or more on the condition track, reduce your movement along the condition track by 1 step.

Gather Information
Busybody: You can take 20 on a Gather Information check by taking 6 hours to search. You cannot use this ability with Connections.
Connections: You can use your Gather Information check in place of a Deception or Persuasion check to obtain or cheapen goods or a service. This usage of the skill takes 3 hours for most things; exceptionally valuable or risky services might require days.
Owe You Nothin': You do not have to pay bribes when gathering information; opting to do so grants you an additional +2 bonus on your check.

Initiative
Initiative has no Focus only uses because it's always important.

Knowledge
Academic Research: If you spend an hour in study or contemplation after failing a knowledge check, you can attempt that check again. This may only be done once per day for a particular need for knowledge.
Specialist: You may spend a spirit point to take 20 on a knowledge check as a free action.

Mechanics
- This skill is under review for the setting. -

Perception
Private Eye: You can search a 1-square area as a swift action.

Persuasion
Persuasion has no Focus only uses because of the Rhetorical Training system.

Pilot
- This skill is under review for the setting. -

Ride
Attack from Cover: You can attack while using your mount as cover, at a -5 penalty to your attack rolls.
Mounted Combat: Once per round when your mount is hit in combat, you may attempt a Ride check (as a reaction) to negate the hit. The hit is negated if your Ride check result is greater than the opponent’s attack roll.
Pounce: As a reaction after you or your mount are attacked, you may immediately make an athletics check to dismount and leap forward in any direction you choose. If the attack was successful, you or your mount still take damage from the attack. You may also perform this ability as a swift action on your turn.

Stealth
Stealth has no Focus only uses because it's always important.

Survival
Intuit Direction: Wherever you are, you can determine the direction to a location with no tools.

{table=head]DC | Familiarity with Location
20 | Very familiar
25 | Studied carefully
30 | Seen casually
35 | Description only[/table]

As a full-round action, you know the direction to the desired location. This merely points you in the direction of the location; it doesn’t provide you with information on how to get there, nor does it take into account any obstacles in the path.

Treat Injury
Energize: As a standard action, you can administer energizing herbs to an adjacent target. If you succeed on a DC 25 Treat Injury check, the creature regains a number of hit points equal to its character level. Additionally, the creature gains a +1 bonus to its attack rolls for the rest of the encounter, though it moves one step down the condition track after the end of the encounter. A creature can only receive one successful energize an hour.
Smellingsalts: As a standard action, you can attempt to shock an adjacent target back up to full action. If you succeed on a DC 25 Treat Injury check, you can temporarily move the target up 1 step on the condition track, even if it is due to a persistent condition; these persistent conditions return and still affect the character following the end of the encounter. A given creature can only benefit from this ability once per encounter.

Lert, A.
2009-08-15, 12:29 AM
Geodude needed an update, so here he is (again), this time with his travelling companion.


Geodude
Earthen Soldier 3
Init +8; Perception +1
------------------------------------------------
Defenses Ref 18 (flat footed 16), Fort 16, Will 15
HP 41 Threshold 23
-------------------------------------------------
Speed 6 squares
Melee +6 unarmed (1d4+3)
Melee +8 jian (2d6+3)
Ranged +5 bow (3d6+3)
Bending attack +5
Base Atk 3; Grp +5
Effective Bender Level 3
--------------------------------------------------
Abilities Str 14, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 15
Talents (1) Spiritual Talent(Elemental Strike), Armored Defense (3) Solid Rock
Feats WP(simple, advanced), AP(light), Improved Damage Threshold(Conditional bonus feat) ; (1) Spiritual(Earth(Sand)) ; (2) Earth Unity ; (3) Spiritual Training
Skills Athletics(+8) Endurance(+7), Initiative(+8)
Bending forms Armor, Elemental Spray, Explosive Wave x2, Move Element, Quake
Possesions mail armor, jian, bow, arrows


Cornet Periwinkle Ignatiev
Sun Warrior Scout 1/ Soldier 2
Init +8; Perception +9
------------------------------------------------
Defenses Ref 17 (flat footed 15), Fort 16, Will 16
HP 38 Threshold 16
-------------------------------------------------
Speed 8 squares
Melee +7 (2d6+3)
Ranged +6 (3d6+3)
Bending Attack +8
Base Atk +2; Grp +4
Effective Bender Level 6
--------------------------------------------------
Abilities Str 14, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8
Talents Spiritual(Elemental Strike) ; (Sc1) Long Stride (So1) Falcon Punch
Feats MA I-III, Shake it Off ; (1) Spiritual(Fire) (So1) WP(advanced) (So2) Weapon Focus(Bending) (3) Open Minded
Skills Athletics(+8) Atunement(+9) Initiative(+8) Perception(+9) Stealth(+8)
Bending Forms Move Element x2
Possesions bow, arrows

AstralFire
2009-08-15, 07:46 AM
Looks good. Added/changed a few of the skill stunts.

AstralFire
2009-08-15, 10:51 AM
Added:

Heavenly Strike: When you use your Boulderfist or Falcon Punch, you may choose to use a Spirit Point. If you do so, you provoke no attack of opportunity for a missed attack. Additionally, if the damage done exceeds the target's damage threshold, you move the target an additional step down the condition track and knock the target prone. This ability does not stack with Stunning Strike, nor can it ever be stun damage.
Requires Boulderfist or Falcon Punch; Heroic Level 13.

Nerfed: Sifu's Serenity. It now advances at a slower rate, capping at Natural 18, and the text reads as follows.

Serenity: Beginning at 2nd level, once per encounter, you may use a spirit point to enter into a brief meditative state as a swift action; for the rest of the encounter, you become immune to fear effects. Additionally, you may replace a single d20 roll you make within the next minute. The roll becomes a Natural 10. You may use this ability after finding out the results of the roll. If you do not replace a die within one minute (ten rounds) of activating Serenity, the ability fades from you. Serenity improves as you gain levels, according to the class table.

Serendipity: Every round (including the round in which you activate it) in which you have Serenity ready to use but do not expend the effect increases the value of the die replaced by 1, to a maximum of three higher than normal. For example, if you are able to use Serenity to replace a die roll with a Natural 15 and do not replace any die for three rounds after you spend the spirit point, you can instead replace the die roll with a Natural 18. You cannot receive a value greater than Natural 20 with this effect.

A bit more restrictive, but with all the changes that have gone on since the class' creation, the earlier version would let a level 17 deal 42d6 damage as a guaranteed hit on the first round at basically no cost if they took the triple crit feat. Now the game is about finishing a Sifu early before they can wipe you out. :)

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-15, 11:20 AM
How does "Additionally, you may replace a single d20 roll you make within the next minute." differ from "If you do not replace a die within one minute (ten rounds) of activating Serenity, the ability fades from you."? Why bother stating it twice?

AstralFire
2009-08-15, 11:30 AM
How does "Additionally, you may replace a single d20 roll you make within the next minute." differ from "If you do not replace a die within one minute (ten rounds) of activating Serenity, the ability fades from you."? Why bother stating it twice?

Just something I thought might be easy enough to miss that it should be repeated, is all. -shrugs- Should I edit it?

AgentPaper
2009-08-15, 12:09 PM
Just something I thought might be easy enough to miss that it should be repeated, is all. -shrugs- Should I edit it?

I'd like to mention that it's still a 1-hit kill, no save. Any combat against a high level sifu has to end in 2-3 rounds, or you die, period. They charge, use power attack for full, and, assuming they have powerful charge, Falcon Strike/Boulderfist and triple crit, do 48d6+210 damage. 258 minimum, 378 average, no survivors. You definitely need to make this max out at 19, or better yet just be a flat bonus to the attack roll.

AstralFire
2009-08-15, 12:22 PM
I'd like to mention that it's still a 1-hit kill, no save. Any combat against a high level sifu has to end in 2-3 rounds, or you die, period. They charge, use power attack for full, and, assuming they have powerful charge, Falcon Strike/Boulderfist and triple crit, do 48d6+210 damage. 258 minimum, 378 average, no survivors. You definitely need to make this max out at 19, or better yet just be a flat bonus to the attack roll.

Combat in Saga at high levels tends to be pretty bloody, but I see your point; I had just worked out the numbers for what a ranged bender could do loosely. It will have to cap at 18, though, since some weapons can critical on a 19.

EDIT: There, base value placed at 15, can be 'charged' up to 18.

Lert, A.
2009-08-15, 02:10 PM
:smallfrown:

How will I sink a warship with my mighty fists now?

Of course, I didn't look at the Sifu class close enough apparently, since it looked a bit weak when I read through it.

AgentPaper
2009-08-15, 02:16 PM
I'd move serendipity into a talent, personally. And then add another that requires it, which gives a +1 stacking bonus to all attacks and defenses each round you don't use it, stacking up to +3.

AstralFire
2009-08-15, 02:24 PM
I'd move serendipity into a talent, personally. And then add another that requires it, which gives a +1 stacking bonus to all attacks and defenses each round you don't use it, stacking up to +3.

I like this. -steals-


Eye of the Storm: While Serendipity is active, you gain a bonus to your attack rolls and all defenses equal to the bonus Serendipity grants to your replacement roll.
Requires Serendipity.

Serendipity: Every round (including the round in which you activate it) in which you have Serenity ready to use but do not expend the effect grants a +1 bonus to your replacement roll, to a maximum of +3. For example, if you are able to use Serenity to replace a die roll with a Natural 15 and do not replace any die for three rounds after you spend the spirit point, you can instead replace the die roll with a Natural 18.

AgentPaper
2009-08-15, 02:46 PM
Oh, and you might want to look at the Meteoric Hammer, if my build for Meteo isn't enough proof. +40 or so to damage with no reduction in accuracy? Thats...pretty damned powerful. Not as game-breaking as auto-nat20, but not balanced. You might change it to something like this:

"The penalty you take to attack rolls from Power Attack is cut in half, (rounded up) but you also take this penalty to your reflex defense until the start of your next turn."

Or you could do something like:

"If you spend a swift action before making an attack, the penalty you take to attack rolls from Power Attack is cut in half. (rounded up)"

AstralFire
2009-08-15, 02:52 PM
I shall think on it, thanks. Leaning more towards the first solution than the second, since I want the drawback of that weapon to be opening yourself up for counterattack.

AgentPaper
2009-08-15, 03:25 PM
Oh, also, can you put in an updated list of what feats and such are available to each class? Would make it much easier to pick bonus feats instead of having to look through the entire feat list to see which ones your class can take.

Lert, A.
2009-08-15, 04:31 PM
Had to test stat the Sifu. 17th level.

Thunderchild
Sun Warrior Soldier 7/ Sifu10
Init +18; Perception +11
------------------------------------------------
Defenses Ref 36 (flat footed 30), Fort 36, Will 35
HP 183 Threshold 36
-------------------------------------------------
Speed 6 squares
Melee +26 unarmed (2d6+9)
Base Atk +17; Grp +16
Bending Attack +24
Effective Bender Level 20
--------------------------------------------------
Abilities Str 8, Dex 20, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8
Talents (Spiritual) Elemental Strike (So1) Falcon Punch (So3) Weapon Specilaization(unarmed) (So5) Melee Smash (So7) Stunning Strike (Si1) Diamond Soul (Si3) Serendipity (Si5) Eye of the Storm (Si7) Deflect attack (Si9) Heavenly Strike; Serenity(Natural 15)
Feats MA I-III, Dodge (1) Spiritual(Fire) (So2) Weapon Focus(unarmed) (3) Weapon Finesse (So4) Toughness (So6) Triple Crit(unarmed) (6) Open Minded (9) Active Defense (12) Spiritual Training (15) Powerful Charge
Skills Athletics(+12) Attunement(+16) Initiative(+18)
Bending forms Move Element x3, Cold Fire, Heatwave, Refraction
Possesions kilt

AstralFire
2009-08-15, 04:31 PM
Went with your Meteoric Hammer suggestion 1.

Here's what we've got so far.

Fire Nation: Armor Proficiency (all), Power Attack, Rapid Shot, Rapid Strike, Rhetorical Training, Sniper, Surgical Expertise, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Weapon Proficiency and Whirlwind Attack

Airbenders: Defensive Roll, Dropdown, Storm God, Twinkletoes
Earthbenders: Earth Unity, Rock Steady, Storm God
Firebenders: Dancing Flames, Storm God
Waterbenders: Active Defense, Aqua Unity

Nobles: Armor Proficiency (light), Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Martial Arts I, Martial Arts II, Martial Arts III, Melee Defense, Rain of Blades, Rhetorical Training*, Skill Focus, Skill Training, Strength of the Spirits, Surgical Expertise, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Weapon Proficiency (advanced, simple).
* You may only take this feat as a class bonus feat once.

Scoundrel: Deadeye, Dodge, Far Shot, Martial Arts I, Martial Arts II, Martial Arts III, Melee Defense, Mobility, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Rain of Blades, Rapid Shot, Running Attack, Skill Focus, Skill Training, Strength of the Spirits, Vehicular Combat, Weapon Focus, Weapon Proficiency (advanced, simple).

Scout: Armor Proficiency (all), Careful Shot, Deadeye, Dodge, Far Shot, Martial Arts I, Martial Arts II, Martial Arts III, Mobility, Point-Blank Shot, Power Attack, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Running Attack, Skill Focus, Skill Training, Sniper, Vehicular Combat, Weapon Focus, Weapon Proficiency (advanced, simple).

Soldier: Armor Proficiency (all), Bantha Rush, Careful Shot, Charging Fire, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Coordinated Attack, Crush, Deadeye, Double Attack, Dual Weapon Mastery I, Dual Weapon Mastery II, Dual Weapon Mastery III, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Far Shot, Great Cleave, Improved Charge, Improved Disarm, Martial Arts I, Martial Arts II, Martial Arts III, Melee Defense, Mighty Swing, Pin, Point-Blank Shot, Power Attack, Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Rapid Shot, Rapid Strike, Running Attack, Shake It Off, Shield Slam, Shield Wall, Skill Focus, Skill Training, Sniper, Throw, Toughness, Trip, Triple Attack, Triple Crit, Vehicular Combat, Weapon Focus, Weapon Proficiency (advanced, simple).

AgentPaper
2009-08-15, 04:50 PM
You really should make a bending base class, and then put the bender talents into that. As-is, if you want to focus mostly on bending, every class is pretty much the same to you as far as feats and talents, since the ones you want are available no matter what class you pick. Which means every single caster bender will be a soldier, just for the full BaB progression. And if you untie BaB from class, then they will probably just take two levels of each class to get the most starting feats and defense bonuses, picking up bender feats and talents as you go.

I would also consider not limiting the amount of times a bender can use their forms, only which ones they know. Just give them a handful as a bonus when they start the class, and let them pick up more with bonus feats and/or talents. It seems to be just as easy to use bending in the show as it is to swing a sword, so there's no reason to put a limit on one but not the other.

AstralFire
2009-08-15, 05:11 PM
You really should make a bending base class, and then put the bender talents into that. As-is, if you want to focus mostly on bending, every class is pretty much the same to you as far as feats and talents, since the ones you want are available no matter what class you pick. Which means every single caster bender will be a soldier, just for the full BaB progression. And if you untie BaB from class, then they will probably just take two levels of each class to get the most starting feats and defense bonuses, picking up bender feats and talents as you go.

I don't agree.
If the class is max BAB (and it really has to be), it functions essentially identical to the Soldier class anyway. If Jedi weren't tied to their lightsabers, they wouldn't need a class of their own in SW Saga.
If the class isn't max BAB, they're tied into only being a Bender class and a Soldier unless they want their BAB to hurt. (-1 can be swallowed, -2 is ow.) Stuck being a Soldier makes it hard to pull off cross-trained benders like Zuko and Azula, and the latter is definitely optimized.

If you're going full-out bending focus, then Soldier is definitely optimal - but not everyone will want to be.


I would also consider not limiting the amount of times a bender can use their forms, only which ones they know. Just give them a handful as a bonus when they start the class, and let them pick up more with bonus feats and/or talents. It seems to be just as easy to use bending in the show as it is to swing a sword, so there's no reason to put a limit on one but not the other.

The current method allows a bender to express focus in a particular area by being able to use it more often, and with a single Spiritual Training feat, a bender is not very limited in your average fight. With two, they can do any average battle with ease.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-16, 03:09 PM
I like this.
(text)

Too wordy, too confusing, and most importantly, too nerfed. Go back to the function of the original, and stop using so many references to replacement rolls and natural numbers. The latter is peculiar and caused the whole critical debacle, while the former is unnecessarily unique.

Serenity: Once per encounter as a swift action, you may enter a state of serenity. You become immune to fear for the rest of the encounter. In addition, you may treat one d20 roll you make in the next minute (10 rounds) as if you had rolled a 10. This roll also gains an untyped bonus equal to your class level.

It loses the unique mechanics of Serendipity, but based on the example Sifus I'm not entirely sure why Serendipity/Eye of the Storm is necessary. This contains the ability without need for a table, restores it to its original level, and removes all the random references to natural numbers.

The reason I was confused about "If you do not replace a die within one minute (ten rounds) of activating Serenity, the ability fades from you." is that "the ability", in this sentence, refers to Serenity. That means that the fear immunity fades unless a die is rerolled within 1 minute, which contradicts the earlier duration of the fear immunity (whole encounter).



It seems to be just as easy to use bending in the show as it is to swing a sword, so there's no reason to put a limit on one but not the other.

Save that for Avatar 4e. As much as I'm unfond of the system, it seems like it might be a good fit for Avatar.

AstralFire
2009-08-16, 03:41 PM
Alright, I'll work on that a moment. Originally, I was trying to keep the 'guaranteed crit' ability of the Jedi Master class the Sifu draws from, hence the natural ___ wording, but there's really no way to work it.

I would like to keep the Eye of the Storm talent, so I'll just extract that. As always, thanks for the feedback.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-17, 08:06 AM
I don't ever recall anyone in the show charging up for a few seconds in order to deliver a critical blow. *shrug*

Serendipity (talent): After entering Serenity, you may spend a [move/standard/full-round] action to gain a bonus equal to half your Sifu level to attacks and defenses on every round that you could replace a roll with Serenity but do not.

AstralFire
2009-08-17, 09:13 AM
Nah, you're right, we don't. Seemed like a thing that could be added without being out of flavor, though.

Stole your wording for both, thanks. Sorry for the slow response, am currently working on a few creative projects, so yesterday was really busy.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-17, 12:14 PM
I'm not sure if that Serendipity draft is balanced (and I'm pretty sure it's not the best it could be). I'd advise against making any decisions until the other two have presented better suggestions.

AstralFire
2009-08-20, 04:27 PM
Things a little quiet for now because my head is really hurty from all of the work I've been doing.

AgentPaper
2009-08-20, 04:52 PM
And I've just started college and am trying to start up an LP and a DnD group, so I probably won't be able to do much testing here. Sorry. :smallredface:

I'll still try to come in and comment, or at least find some obvious flaws.