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View Full Version : Mages, Planes, Wages, and Economics



The Neoclassic
2009-07-25, 06:22 PM
A few related questions...

If a mage is in the long-term employ of a noble, wealthy patron, or such, what could they expect as a daily salary? Of course it would depend on their level, but any per-level guidelines available? How much would this vary depending on how many spells per day they'd have to use for their employer vs. how many they could put to their own use? What if they were hired primarily for magic item creation? If they were likely going to be in combat on a regular basis?

Similarly... Let's say an economy is primarily coins but for more expensive exchanges, extraplanar materials are used, such as some Celestial metal or concentrated necromantic energies. Now, these materials obviously come from other planes and so most folk couldn't easily access them for lack of means of interplanetary travel. However, what's to prevent a mid-to-high level PC from just going to the right plane and collecting millions of gp worth of the item? I figured the easiest way to do it would say that it takes xdx days to find xdx gp worth of a particular material (assuming they have a general idea of where it's likely found but no special tracking device or anything to help them locate it extremely quickly). However... I have no idea what reasonable numbers for that would be. How many days should it take a PC to find 1,000 gp worth of celestial metal or 50,000 gp worth of dark energy? What other factors/issues should be considered here? I really do want to use these extraplanar components in my economy and also for magic item creation, but I want to do it in a balanced, reasonable way.

Any feedback or, in particular, numerical suggestions would be of great help. Thanks! :smallsmile:

Jergmo
2009-07-25, 11:07 PM
Well, according to the Stronghold Builder's Guide, a week of servitude is worth 30 gp per PC class level. So a level 5 wizard would earn 150 gp per week. However, it does get into silliness territory when you're talking about high level characters, so when it gets to that point, if the job sends them into danger often, maybe they get paid every couple of days?

jmbrown
2009-07-25, 11:15 PM
Well, according to the Stronghold Builder's Guide, a week of servitude is worth 30 gp per PC class level. So a level 5 wizard would earn 150 gp per week. However, it does get into silliness territory when you're talking about high level characters, so when it gets to that point, if the job sends them into danger often, maybe they get paid every couple of days?

Doesn't seem silly to me. For the average gold a character makes over the course of 1st level you can hire a level 20 wizard to hang out at your pad for a week.

Cieyrin
2009-07-26, 11:45 AM
If they give you the time of day for that sort of thing. Plus, I believe that'd just be standard wages, not the cost of spell casting performed, which would be an additional charge on a per spell basis. To be fair, if you got a pet wizard in your employ, you probably worked out some type of contract to include some spellcasting as part of normal wages, though anything requiring expensive components or XP would probably have to be worked out on a case-by-case basis. No wizard is gonna want to be spamming wishes at the drop of the hat, as desk jobs don't exactly get you rolling in the XP.

Taking a look at spell casting costs, which are spell level x caster level x 10, and we assume your pet wizard, for the sake of example, will be a level 5 wizard using the elite array, so Int ~18, meaning he has 4 1st, 3 2nd and 2 3rd. The cost of those spells would be 4(1x5x10) + 3(2x5x10) + 2(3x5x10) = 4(50) + 3(100) + 2(150) = 200 + 300 + 300 = 800 gp/day. Now, we can't assume he's casting all his spells at his masters beck and call everyday, so we'll assume 2 1st, 1 2nd and a 3rd on occasion, bringing the cost to 200 gp/day. Over 7 days that's 1400 gp, on top of 150 for normal wages, which comes out to ~1500 gp/week, with variances depending on what Mr. Wizard is doing this week. Expensive retainers, wizards are, though you could probably disperse some of the expense for housing and possibly a lab and library for him, which would basically be permanent expenditures for his wages, so you would probably be paying him much less then that, especially if he gets non-monetary privileges besides.

Now, as for extraplanar material expeditions, I'd make it dependent on Craft, Knowledge, Profession or Survival checks, as best fits the material being gathered. Give an appropriate DC for harvest, depending on how it has to be collected and preserved for transport, and have them roll their Profession(herbalist) or whatever check to see how much was made. Depending on how valuable it is, you can use the the value acquired (if we want to go w/ the Craft system of work completed) of skill check x target DC and determine that value in silver, gold, platinum or tens of platinum, as meets up with the raw material's value.

This is just one character, so I'd recommend for anyone trying to turn a major profit to hire some skilled NPCs to assist in the harvest to quicken the procedure of acquisition. Sure, their wages will cut into your bottom line, especially if the harvest area in question is a dangerous one, thus evoking 'hazard pay,' but the amount produced will probably take care of the cost of their work, anyways. Essentially, you make your own trade expedition to get materials to return and sell, though realize that if the market is suddenly flooded with these otherwise hard-to-come-by materials, the value will probably drop. Depending on how you roll it, you could monopolize the industry there if you can get costs to a level where you can sell at a better price than your NPC competitors or you could make it a free-for-all if you try to dump it all in one place.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

I_Got_This_Name
2009-07-26, 05:59 PM
The rules for gathering these materials should be based on the rules for treasure hunting on the material, since they're exactly the same thing.

So the way you determine amounts of celestial metal or concentrated necromantic energy or primordial chaos or whatever that you find is simple: A vein of (whatever) is guarded by a level-appropriate monster or group of monsters, and is worth a level-appropriate treasure, less whatever else the monster has.

Maybe not literally guarded, either, the monster could just be nearby and an expected hazard of extraction. You still are likely to have to overcome the monster to get the treasure.

For instance, you go to the Desert Plane to gather a special Spice from its Spice Sands that enhances the powers of psychics or whatever. It's valuable, so you care about it. The Spice Sands are infested with powerful Sand Worms, which use Purple Worm stats and eat intruders. Each Worm's territory has about 9,800 GP worth of Spice in it.

Alternately, you go into the Negative Energy Plane to gather NecroCrystal. While there, you fight an adventure full of Energons, Nightwings, Shadows, and other such monsters. At the end of the adventure, you find a deposit of NecroCrystal worth the treasure value of the adventure.

Simple and effective.

For wages, high level characters get whatever they can negotiate. Remember that they're selling time that they could spend adventuring (or looting your treasury), so the amounts of money they're being paid to not adventure should be close to what they'd make as adventurers. Past a certain level, the cheapest way to get a high-level mage's services is to put them in charge of a province and give them whatever they can manage to make the province produce.

sigurd
2009-07-26, 09:20 PM
I'd imagine that high level mages would have two big understandings.
1) It is your honour, and pleasure that you pay for anything so trivial as mydamages, retainers, mundane necessities (after all what can you get with mere gold!)
I appreciate that you make it possible for me to think of more important things.

2) In exchange for my appreciation you may (usually) list yourself as my patron with the stature and prestige that brings.
In recompense for your good treatment I shall treat you well in kind. That _may_ mean magical aid or advice. Any truly difficult or dangerous matters may be discussed as I understand the limits of your understanding. I will likely help you in the best way I know how (probably just advice) or tell you to run and hide.

Mining monk
2009-07-27, 05:25 AM
To be blunt: Profession checks.

Ignoring character level for the moment, and ridiculous profession checks, I've always loved how my bards, wizards and clerics make more money over a month of instant profession work then 3 sessions of battling feirce monskers. :smalltongue:

So, I reduce the GPs earned from encounters.

My 10th level bard, wizard and cleric use perform, spellcraft and Heal respectively for busking, Court magistry and Healer. Their check results are, per day, 1d20+13+10+5. The 10 is a masterwork item + 5 aptitude +3 skill focus. On average, around 39, so 3d6 per day (Perfom) or 20 (Profession). I typically roll both, look at what they did, and average it out to what seems fair. Spellcasting BEYOND what ca be applied through the spellcraft check should be 1d6 GP per level of the spell effect + 1 GP per XP burnt, +0.5GP per GP burnt.

For extraplanar materials, I've done something kinda like that, and I required it be "purified". You know, dying from Awesome on the PeP? I made things like that happen to people who held the unpurified ore. Purification required around 10 casters of at least 10th level, 4 casters of 20th level, one caster of 40th level ( At 40th level the gods had less HD than you, so basically impossible) or a miracle/wish/epicspell.

jagadaishio
2009-07-27, 11:46 AM
To be blunt: Profession checks.

Ignoring character level for the moment, and ridiculous profession checks, I've always loved how my bards, wizards and clerics make more money over a month of instant profession work then 3 sessions of battling feirce monskers. :smalltongue:

So, I reduce the GPs earned from encounters.

My 10th level bard, wizard and cleric use perform, spellcraft and Heal respectively for busking, Court magistry and Healer. Their check results are, per day, 1d20+13+10+5. The 10 is a masterwork item + 5 aptitude +3 skill focus. On average, around 39, so 3d6 per day (Perfom) or 20 (Profession). I typically roll both, look at what they did, and average it out to what seems fair. Spellcasting BEYOND what ca be applied through the spellcraft check should be 1d6 GP per level of the spell effect + 1 GP per XP burnt, +0.5GP per GP burnt.

For extraplanar materials, I've done something kinda like that, and I required it be "purified". You know, dying from Awesome on the PeP? I made things like that happen to people who held the unpurified ore. Purification required around 10 casters of at least 10th level, 4 casters of 20th level, one caster of 40th level ( At 40th level the gods had less HD than you, so basically impossible) or a miracle/wish/epicspell.

You realize that profession checks are performed weekly, not daily, right? Furthermore, how in the world did you get a +5 aptitude bonus? I assume that the final +5 is ability score.

Mining monk
2009-07-28, 05:42 AM
You realize that profession checks are performed weekly, not daily, right? Furthermore, how in the world did you get a +5 aptitude bonus? I assume that the final +5 is ability score.

I believe that maybe I picked the wrong words.
I specifically houseruled that spellcraft, and the like, along with profession's could be used in a similar manner to perform, for 1/day gains. I ruled that the Bard could spend 1/2 a day working and busk at a tavern in the evening, but to a maximum of 3 units of work per 2 days. So performers are still slightly better to earn money, but other options too exist.
1d20 + 13+10+5 = 1d20 + skill + 5+ masterwork item.

+5 is the addition of: Skill focus and modifiers. Sorry for being unclear. :smallredface: