About Haley's New Dagger?

[waffletaco]

It seems way bigger than belkar's daggers. I'm pretty sure daggers are tiny size after all. I was under the assumption that it was a +4 short sword; however, I believe both Crystal and Haley called it a dagger.

[Morquard]

Its maybe a 3.0 dagger, they were bigger, remember how Belkars shrinked in #1?

[Atcote]

I believe when 3.5 rolled around, weapons became shorter depending on the stature of the character (so halfling daggers are smaller than a human's dagger), or something similar, so thereby, Haley's (Crystal's) dagger is basically normal size for a +4 human dagger.

[Snake-Aes]

I believe when 3.5 rolled around, weapons became shorter depending on the stature of the character (so halfling daggers are smaller than a human's dagger), or something similar, so thereby, Haley's (Crystal's) dagger is basically normal size for a +4 human dagger.

Yes, this is what happened. In 3.0 you would use weapons based on your size, so a medium character's longsword was, for a small character, a bastard sword. Now there is simply every weapon for every size. Belkar used to use 2 daggers because they were the equivalent of shortswords or something like that. With 3.5, they just became small-character-sized daggers.

[Draxonicar]

I liked the weapon system in 3.0, so size mattered in what weapons you could use

[Snake-Aes]

I liked the weapon system in 3.0, so size mattered in what weapons you could use

I still does. A gnome's scythe will be laughably small.

[Ancalagon]

I still does. A gnome's scythe will be laughably small.

I assume you might stop laughing when it has cut your throat! ;)

[Snake-Aes]

I assume you might stop laughing when it has cut your throat! ;)

If he can reach me in the first place!

[Jagos]

That's why there's stilts

[Morquard]

If he can reach me in the first place!
Might be fun what he cuts, if he can't reach your throat though :)

I don't really know why it was changed really.
Sure a Gnome before couldn't use a Bastard Sword and had to use a Longsword with both hands.
Now they can use gnome-made Bastard Swords, still need both hands, and do reduced damage with it.
Is that more or less than the old longsword did?

So not really sure what the point is, except that you have greatswords that don't really look great :)

[Ancalagon]

If he can reach me in the first place!

He can also chop off arteries in your legs... or... aim... a bit... higher. That'll also make you stop laughing, I guess! ;)

[Dark Faun]

Not necessarily stop laughing, but if Snake-Aes is male, he'll definitely laugh a lot higher.

As for Haley's new dagger... She calls it a sword in this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0581.html).

[Snake-Aes]

Might be fun what he cuts, if he can't reach your throat though :)

I don't really know why it was changed really.
Sure a Gnome before couldn't use a Bastard Sword and had to use a Longsword with both hands.
Now they can use gnome-made Bastard Swords, still need both hands, and do reduced damage with it.
Is that more or less than the old longsword did?

So not really sure what the point is, except that you have greatswords that don't really look great :)

It was mostly so every single possible combination of damage, damage type, threat and special features would be usable by everyone. Yeah, a Small greatsword, despite the oxymoron, is just about as good as a medium bastard.

[Kish]

It was mostly so every single possible combination of damage, damage type, threat and special features would be usable by everyone.

I find that hard to believe. There's no reason that couldn't have been done without implementing differently sized weapons for different races. Some idea of realism? A burning desire to be able to say, "Small short sword"? Wanting halfling and gnome PCs to need specially made weapons, rather than just thinking in terms of "it's a +3 long sword, so an elf or dwarf would use it one-handed, and a gnome would use it 2-handed"?

I don't know. And if you have a quote saying that making every single combination of damage, damage type, threat and special features would be usable by everyone, I'll stand corrected. Regardless, I do not consider that particular change from 3.0ed to 3.5ed a good one. Even if I considered the humor value of "small greatsword" enough of a bonus to offset the confusion value, having all the weapons a group of adventurers finds be good for medium or small races, never both, sounds like just a pain.

[Snake-Aes]

Well, it makes sense, and I can't think of any other reason for it, because at the same time it simplifies your reasoning(you'd always know that a short sword is light if it's for your size), it also complicates it(what to do with a looted greatsword made for gnomes and your half ogre pal?).

[Spiryt]

I've find it perfectly logical and simplier.

Medium sized one handed sword is designed/ balanced to be used as one handed well by creature that has size at least aproximately similar to average human.

It obvioulsy won't make good two handed weapon for creature that's 4 times smaller.

It's quite obvious that in world were smaller races exist, smiths make similar weapons for them, only properly scaled.

[Keris]

As for Haley's new dagger... She calls it a sword in this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0581.html).

And it's described as a +4 dagger in this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0607.html), and just a knife in these (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0648.html) ones (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0645.html).

[Dark Faun]

An ambiguous weapon?

We found V's weapon folks! :smalltongue:

[Moriato]

Sweet, it must a +4 Morphing Dagger! Score!

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I find that hard to believe. There's no reason that couldn't have been done without implementing differently sized weapons for different races. Some idea of realism?
Uh, yeah. Most weapons that didn't go into a family of their own different sizes would have no equivalent for gnomes or ogres. As far as 3.0 was concerned, quarterstaves, scythes, warhammers, spiked chains, bows, polearms and many other weapons were only ever made in one size. There was no equivalent that creatures of different sizes could use.

Don't think just about the swords, axes, and clubs that could be effectively used as a different item from the same family. Gnomes, halflings, ogres, and Giants would need their own version of the various unique weapons anyway. And, of course, even within the sword, axe, and club family, you'd still need further expansion. There was no equivalent to the dagger for Small characters. The smallest blade they could use was the equivalent of a short-sword. This actually cuts down on the need for unique-sized weapons, such as the Gnome-sized Shortbow—a special two-handed ranged weapon for Small characters that has a special rule that it cannot be used as a One-handed weapon by Medium characters.


Even if I considered the humor value of "small greatsword" enough of a bonus to offset the confusion value, having all the weapons a group of adventurers finds be good for medium or small races, never both, sounds like just a pain.
You can still use weapons that were originally made for a creature of a different size. (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/weapons.html#inappropriately-sized-weapons) If you don't like the penalties, there's even a Sidebar in the DMG addressing that for various related weapons.


(what to do with a looted greatsword made for gnomes and your half ogre pal?).
Same thing you do with the gnome's armor.

[Bibliomancer]

Sweet, it must a +4 Morphing Dagger! Score!

Don't you mean a +4 morphing ??????

On the topic of weapon sizes, it was done to make the game more realistic, because a huge dagger does the same amount of damage as a dagger but is weighted for throwing and has a fair larger handle. This still doesn't fix the problem that a human using a colossal greatsword (provided he can lift it) still only has a 5 ft reach.

[LuisDantas]

The distinctions among daggers, knives and swords are not always clear in real life either. It is not particularly surprising to have Crystal's weapon somewhat hard to classify.

[Bibliomancer]

Technically, a dagger is simply a knife designed with fighting in mind (ie a sturdier construction) and under DnD rules a sword would be any dagger not weighted for throwing.

[Ozymandias9]

Not necessarily stop laughing, but if Snake-Aes is male, he'll definitely laugh a lot higher.

As for Haley's new dagger... She calls it a sword in this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0581.html).

Maybe it's a dirk (naval, not scottish). I've never been sure if those are swords or daggers.

[Liwen]

Dirk are a kind of dagger. I've learned this in Diablo II, so it's not 100% reliable, but for me it's sufficiently conclusive.

[mcv]

Search on youtube for "langes messer". I think that's German for "long knives", but what they're using is practically a single-edged sword.

I've seen one in real life too. They're only slightly smaller than an arming sword (the kind of sword you use with a shield), but due to their single edge, they don't count as a real sword in Europe. So they're knives, I guess.

[Renegade Paladin]

I don't really know why it was changed really.
Sure a Gnome before couldn't use a Bastard Sword and had to use a Longsword with both hands.
Now they can use gnome-made Bastard Swords, still need both hands, and do reduced damage with it.
Is that more or less than the old longsword did?
It's exactly the same, actually. :smalltongue:

[Haarkla]

It looks like a scimitar to me.

[Blue Ghost]

I remember that BoVD featured an evil god whose followers wielded short swords and called them "long knives." Perhaps that's where Crystal's dagger is coming from?

[derfenrirwolv]

The 3.5 system makes weapons harder to come by for small folks. Before they could just pick up whatever treasure the humans had dropped and, if it wasn't already large, it would be useable. Now they need to find small gear in the type of weapon they want to be able to use it at all.

[Snake-Aes]

The 3.5 system makes weapons harder to come by for small folks. Before they could just pick up whatever treasure the humans had dropped and, if it wasn't already large, it would be useable. Now they need to find small gear in the type of weapon they want to be able to use it at all.


Inappropriately Sized Weapons

A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.
Except for the fact that you'd now get the -2 penalty to attack, a small character CAN pick a longsword made for medium people and use it.

[Kish]

Yeeeahhh...

So it's not harder to get weapons, it's just harder to get weapons it makes any sense for you to use. Massive improvement there. :smalltongue:

[Arkenputtyknife]

I've seen one in real life too. They're only slightly smaller than an arming sword (the kind of sword you use with a shield), but due to their single edge, they don't count as a real sword in Europe. So they're knives, I guess.
Uh—really? By that logic, a katana or saber wouldn't be considered a sword. What about rapiers, some of which have no sharpened edge at all?

I believe the distinction between knife and sword is more length and maybe use than anything else, although the distinction seems blurred. Is a cutlass a knife or a sword? It's a short, relatively straight and robust saber, used as much in agriculture (like a machete) or for cutting ropes (aboard ship) as for killing people.

[SadisticFishing]

Err... the hilts are COMPLETELY different sizes, and weighted entirely differently for Small races and Medium ones. 3.5 is more realistic as well as being simpler.

[derfenrirwolv]

Except for the fact that you'd now get the -2 penalty to attack, a small character CAN pick a longsword made for medium people and use it.

And who wants a -2 to attack as a primary weapon? Before, a halfling could pick up a longsword from the treasure pile and swing it in two hands. The blocked text is basically the old 3.0 rule with a -2 penalty tacked on it.



I usually allow small creatures to do this with an easy craft check to change the handle and add a little extra weight towards the pommel or what have you.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

The 3.5 system makes weapons harder to come by for small folks.
So what did the gnomes use for their Daggers seeing as how the only available Daggers were equivalent to Short Swords for the gnomes? (Short Swords that could still be thrown with a 10 ft. range increment, but Short Swords none the less.)

[FerhagoRosewood]

Couldn't it be that one dagger in Complete Scoundrel (at least I think that's where it's featured) that's curved properties give it a small bonus to Sneak Attacks?

That's what I took it for anyway.

[snafu]

Before, a halfling could pick up a longsword from the treasure pile and swing it in two hands.

The one-handed war sword of the European knight might be 36 inches long (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arming_sword). Three foot. Bandobras Took, the tallest halfling on record without the use of growth stimulants, was four foot five.

Even the Bullroarer would struggle to make any use of a knight's three foot sword. The typical halfling wouldn't have a prayer.

(Of course your hobbits may vary. Given that I'm sitting within a half hour's leisurely stroll of the Old Mill, you'll forgive me for sticking with the Professor on this one :-)

[Zeful]

Uh—really? By that logic, a katana or saber wouldn't be considered a sword. What about rapiers, some of which have no sharpened edge at all?I'm pretty sure you're mistaking single and double edged weapons (or I could be). A weapon with two opposed cutting surfaces (most longswords, gladius and the like) is not the definition of a double edged blade. A double edged blade is where the cutting surfaced is shaped like: \/
While a single edged blade is shaped like a chisel: |/

[Ozymandias9]

Dirk are a kind of dagger. I've learned this in Diablo II, so it's not 100% reliable, but for me it's sufficiently conclusive.

Diablo II you say? No. No, that won't do at all.

A dirk in the scottish tradition is a dagger, often made from the end of an otherwise broken sword. During the bronze age, the word generally referred to a sword, usually ~20 inches in length (that is, a short sword). There were some that were considerably shorter, to the extent of 6 inches in some cases. They are always mounted on a hilt.

As time passed they tended toward the shorter. By the medieval period was used primarily as a sidearm when the broadsword was inappropriate, or when a shield was necessary.

While the Scottish dirk passed out of prominence in the medieval period, the naval dirk didn't come to prominence till the 1500s or so and stayed in wide use as far as World War One. Again, size varied, but naval issue of less than 16 inches blade length was rare (though the British did go shorter by the WWI period). This is only about a hand's length shorter than the blade of a standard gladius-- the standard example of a short sword (and some of those were notably shorter). They were generally issued in place of swords for midshipmen and below, where as daggers and knives were issued in addition to sabers (and sometimes dirks).

[Carnivorous_Bea]

Having occasionally handled swords and daggers, I always figured the dividing line between them was pretty clear-cut. The word I'm looking for is escaping me at the moment, but I keep thinking "momentum" is kind of what I'm looking for. Basically, with a knife, all the force comes from your own muscle power. With a sword, you can feel that the weight and balance of the blade adds the momentum of the weapon's mass to your blow.

A knife blow is a lot weaker than a sword blow.

Basically, whether something is a sword or a knife may be doubtful when you're just looking at it, but when you're holding the weapon in hand, you know. :smallsmile:

[derfenrirwolv]

The one-handed war sword of the European knight might be 36 inches long. Three foot. Bandobras



Took, the tallest halfling on record without the use of growth stimulants, was four foot five.

I STILL say he needs an asterix next to his name! That record was acheived with questionable quantities of bovine lactate material!




Even the Bullroarer would struggle to make any use of a knight's three foot sword. The typical halfling wouldn't have a prayer.

4 foot halfling. 3 foot sword. Sword= 75% of wielders height


Claymore
Overall ................ 58.5 inches = 4.9 feet. 6 foot human = 82% of the humans height.

So proportionaly, the longsword is still slightly smaller than a humans claymore.

[Arkenputtyknife]

I'm pretty sure you're mistaking single and double edged weapons (or I could be). A weapon with two opposed cutting surfaces (most longswords, gladius and the like) is not the definition of a double edged blade. A double edged blade is where the cutting surfaced is shaped like: \/
While a single edged blade is shaped like a chisel: |/
Could well be. I don't profess to be an expert regarding swords, and wasn't aware of this distinction. Thank you.

Still, would this be used to distinguish swords from knives? It seems unlikely to me.


I STILL say he needs an asterix next to his name!
You have a lot of gaul, saying that! (I think you mean ‘asterisk’.)

[derfenrirwolv]

I do like the distinction between a knife and a dagger being the source of the force behind it. Hadn't thought of it that way. Some things though, like piercing swords do blur the line a bit though.


You have a lot of gaul, saying that! (I think you mean ‘asterisk’.)

I can't speel

[GreatWyrmGold]

The Craft check someone posted makes sense. But wielding a sword like a BIG knife? Not without "fixing" it. It even says in the DMG: "A greatsword is not just a big dagger."

Also, there's a weapon equivilent varient rule in the DMG somewhere.

[Random832]

I'm pretty sure you're mistaking single and double edged weapons (or I could be). A weapon with two opposed cutting surfaces (most longswords, gladius and the like) is not the definition of a double edged blade. A double edged blade is where the cutting surfaced is shaped like: \/
While a single edged blade is shaped like a chisel: |/

No. That's called the grind type - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grind

Single-edged vs double-edged means whether both sides of the blade are sharpened or not.

One traditional distinction between swords and knives is that a sword is double-edged (and therefore that a sabre, katana, etc are indeed not swords), but this obviously does not match the common view of things.

"Sword" being considered a prestigious term in addition to a technical one, and therefore the idea that all weapons of the same very general format are "entitled" to be called swords, has blurred the lines.

[mcv]

Uh—really? By that logic, a katana or saber wouldn't be considered a sword. What about rapiers, some of which have no sharpened edge at all?
They're bladed weapons, but not swords according to the strict medieval European definition of the word.

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword#Single-edged_and_double-edged_swords) says:

One strict definition of a sword restricts it to a straight, double-edged bladed weapon designed for both slashing and thrusting. However, general usage of the term remains inconsistent and it has important cultural overtones, so that commentators almost universally recognize the single-edged swords such as Asian weapons (dāo 刀, katana 刀) as "swords", simply because they have a prestige akin to their European counterparts.


I believe the distinction between knife and sword is more length and maybe use than anything else, although the distinction seems blurred. Is a cutlass a knife or a sword? It's a short, relatively straight and robust saber, used as much in agriculture (like a machete) or for cutting ropes (aboard ship) as for killing people.
According to the strict European definition, it's not a sword unless it's straight, double-edged and used for war. According to the slightly wider "prestige" definition, I guess it needs to be a high prestige bladed weapon of war.

In the end, there's been hundreds on different variations of bladed weapons. Some knives are bigger than some swords (the Greek short sword used by hoplites was really very short, but was it really a sword according to the strict sense?), and names vary constantly. There have been two completely different swords that were both called "Claymore", for example. Greatsword and longsword have also been used for different sizes of swords.

My guess is a cutlass would count as a saber rather than a knife or sword. Sabers are another class of post-medieval main weapons of war that are distinct from swords and mostly used for slashing I think.


I'm pretty sure you're mistaking single and double edged weapons (or I could be). A weapon with two opposed cutting surfaces (most longswords, gladius and the like) is not the definition of a double edged blade. A double edged blade is where the cutting surfaced is shaped like: \/
While a single edged blade is shaped like a chisel: |/
It's the first time I've heard that, and wikipedia seems to disagree with you. Of course wikipedia could be wrong, and your distinction is probably be very meaningful to some people, so I can imagine there are two entirely different definitions of the single/double-edged distinction. But I honestly don't know.

[Spiryt]

Sword is generally at least 25 inches long, has some form of pommel (even katanas have something like pommel - Kashira, even though it's not so visible) some even rudimentary guard (even if only thing it "guards" from is sliping hand on the blade), and most importantly has proper balance, cross section, distal taper, edge constrcution and all that differs it from just big knife blade (or cheap reproduction for that matter).

Generally you can tell that even big combat knife like this seax (http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=59786) doesn't really look like sword. (no matter if celtic, saxon, medieval or japan one )

[mcv]

The one-handed war sword of the European knight might be 36 inches long (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arming_sword). Three foot. Bandobras Took, the tallest halfling on record without the use of growth stimulants, was four foot five.

Even the Bullroarer would struggle to make any use of a knight's three foot sword. The typical halfling wouldn't have a prayer.

Note that Zweihanders could be as tall as a man. Admittedly Zweihanders weren't exactly normal swords. To handle a sword that size, the sword needs to have a very long hilt (hands further apart, therefore more leverage), and the wielder needs to be strong, fit and highly trained. And of course there's been a host of lesser two-handed swords with much smaller hilts, but the hilt still needs to be big enough to accommodate both hands.

So I'd say a 4 foot halfling could use a 3 foot sword, but he'd have to use it as a two-handed sword, and the hilt needs to be big enough for that. If it isn't, I'm sure a smith could adapt it, possibly at a slight loss of balance.

[Green-Shirt Q]

This may seem like a stupid question, but when does Haley actually find this new dagger I keep hearing about?

It could be just because I have a terrible memory, but I don't actually remember Haley getting or ever having a dagger. I've also glanced some of the archives and I still don't see anything about that. :smallconfused:

Can somebody please provide a link and end my confusion? :smallfrown:

[mcv]

Here's an example of how sword-like "langes messer" ("long knives") can be:

Linky (http://www.trainingsschwerter.de/shop/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=42&invis=4&osCsid=c4fc36f5dc64eac338e2ec4e90041e32)

Or in spoiler:
http://www.trainingsschwerter.de/shop/catalog/images/101-00003_4.jpg

[Snake-Aes]

This may seem like a stupid question, but when does Haley actually find this new dagger I keep hearing about?

It could be just because I have a terrible memory, but I don't actually remember Haley getting or ever having a dagger. I've also glanced some of the archives and I still don't see anything about that. :smallconfused:

Can somebody please provide a link and end my confusion? :smallfrown:

V pops in Greysky, tells Haley they're porting out. Haley halts him, kills Crystal and sets off with V and Crystal's dagger/sword/knife

[Green-Shirt Q]

V pops in Greysky, tells Haley they're porting out. Haley halts him, kills Crystal and sets off with V and Crystal's dagger/sword/knife

Oh yeah. Thanks! :smallsmile:

[Arkenputtyknife]

Of course wikipedia could be wrong…
Blasphemy! :smallbiggrin:

That was an interesting post. Thanks for the info.

[Spiryt]

I'm pretty sure you're mistaking single and double edged weapons (or I could be). A weapon with two opposed cutting surfaces (most longswords, gladius and the like) is not the definition of a double edged blade. A double edged blade is where the cutting surfaced is shaped like: \/
While a single edged blade is shaped like a chisel: |/

Oh, I missed that.

And it's, as previously stated by Random832, wrong. Double edged sword is a sword with two usually identical cutting surfaces.

I honestly can't recall any sword or weapon with edge shaped like a chisel.
And what should be purpose of such design.

Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katana_construction) you have pretty solid wiki article with shows cross section of undoubtely single - edged sword.


Here's an example of how sword-like "langes messer" ("long knives") can be:

Linky (http://www.trainingsschwerter.de/shop/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=42&invis=4&osCsid=c4fc36f5dc64eac338e2ec4e90041e32)

Or in spoiler:
kaboom

Another fine (and pretty) example (http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=13803&highlight=messer).

Obviously langes/grosse/krieg messers retain name witch means just "knife" but often aren't really knife like.

And most importantly, our ancestors obviously didn't bother about strict classifications too much. It's later invention. :smallwink:

[derfenrirwolv]

So I'd say a 4 foot halfling could use a 3 foot sword, but he'd have to use it as a two-handed sword,

Oh definitely, no one is suggesting the halfling can use a longsword one handed.




and the hilt needs to be big enough for that.

Well the handle is the relevant part :). And yes, it should be longer but a halfling can still put 2 hands on it.




If it isn't, I'm sure a smith could adapt it, possibly at a slight loss of balance.

Weld something onto the tang, slap a new guard on it and you're good to go.

[Arkenputtyknife]

I honestly can't recall any sword or weapon with edge shaped like a chisel.
And what should be purpose of such design.
I can think of two reasons for a chisel edge:

It costs less to manufacture (one grinding instead of two).
It can make more precise cuts due to its flat side. A carpenter needs the joint to be straight and true.

Neither of those criteria seem useful for a sword, where cheapness and precision are much less important than reliability and cutting power.

[baerdith]

Sword is generally at least 25 inches long, has some form of pommel (even katanas have something like pommel - Kashira, even though it's not so visible) some even rudimentary guard (even if only thing it "guards" from is sliping hand on the blade), and most importantly has proper balance, cross section, distal taper, edge constrcution and all that differs it from just big knife blade (or cheap reproduction for that matter).

Generally you can tell that even big combat knife like this seax (http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=59786) doesn't really look like sword. (no matter if celtic, saxon, medieval or japan one )


Well there is also the Bowie and the Arkansas Toothpick...... they kinda look sword-like.....

Bowie 1 (http://www.knifehaggler.com/articles/Images/WranglerBowie.jpg)
Bowie 2 (http://thekeeneredge.com/sitebuilder/images/linder_eagle_cocobola_bowie_knife_LG176925-344x344.jpg)
Toothpick 1 (http://www.teraasekeskus.com/tuotteet/isotveitset/LinderArkansasNet.jpg)
Toothpick 2 (http://www.anythingarkansas.com/arkapedia/pedia/Arkansas_Toothpick/arkansas_toothpick.JPG)

[Spiryt]

Well there is also the Bowie and the Arkansas Toothpick...... they kinda look sword-like.....

Wiki (not the best source of course) states it's (toothpick) a dagger.

And indeed it looks very dagger like.

It's too short (http://arms2armor.com/Knives/arkpick1.htm) to be considered sword not even considering other strucural details.

Weighted towards throwing also...

So it's only as sword like as any dagger is, I would say.

Dagger (http://www.myarmoury.com/review_mrl_scotd.html)
Dagger (http://www.myarmoury.com/review_lutel10042.html)
Dagger (http://www.medieval-weaponry.co.uk/acatalog/HW2117Close.jpg)