Anyone find it strange that there are only schools for wizards and fighters?

[paladinofshojo]

Now Wizards I can understand, but if there is an entire college for a class that only has a +2 Int modifier, surely there would be one for Bards and Rangers (both of whom have a +6 Int modifier ) but no Bards just "cruise through Bard Camp" and Rangers don't even go to schools apparently....

[Morty]

Who said there aren't Bard schools? Elan didn't attend one, but Elan is hardly the only bard in the world. And Rangers are skilled in wilderness survival, something that's not exactly taught in schools.
And I have absolutely no idea what skill points have to do with anything.

[Daefos]

You're thinking of the classes' base number skill points, which is more an indication of how spread out one's talents are rather than how smart you are. Wizards would almost invariably have higher intelligence modifiers than most classes.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Actually, bards have atleast a camp as Elan mentions when he comtemplates multiclassing to wizard

[Ancalagon]

I'd say "bard camp" = "bard school".

And the barbarian's guild seems to be some school as well. And temples probably teach their new clerics stuff, and paladins probably also attend some formal training (sapphire guard etc).

I think it is sane to assume that other classes have some sort of "formal class training" - when fighters have courses about "Attack of Opportunity" and get a "mba", I'd not be surprised if you could go to "Ranger University" or "Druid School" as well.

[Bibliomancer]

The main thing to consider is the amount of effort and form required for each class (in theory). Wizards literally metaphorically must 'hit the books' to study*, while fighters must constantly refine the advanced combat techniques that are the source of their additional feats. Bards and rangers both learn a wide variety of skills from a traveling mentor.


*Barbarians can get away with hitting them, or anything else for that matter.

[Spiryt]

I don't see Belkar having any traveling mentor :smalltongue:

He seems to have learned what he can in bar sprawls, roaming around and commiting various crimes.

It's all collusive since it's D&D based world, but it doesn't mean that there are schools where they teach you how to tame a housecat.

[Acero]

dojos and monestaries train monks, depending on location


http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html

[Lira]

There's also ninja school:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0509.html

[Larkspur]

Do we know there's no ranger school? (Or druid school, or cleric school, or whatever.)

Belkar's a pretty atypical ranger. Maybe his lack of formal schooling explains why he didn't have an animal companion (until the advent of Mr. Scruffy.)

[daggaz]

Bard camp? Bard camp??!

Bards go to band camp, people, to play the flute and learn many bardic things.

[Morquard]

Belkar is probably the worst ranger in the history of Rangers.

I mean he wants to dual wield scrolls instead of casting them, knows nothing about tracking or survival, has no animal companion etc etc etc.

Thats probably because he killed his teacher and all students the first day into ranger college :)

Barbarians are pretty much the archetype of "untrained fighter that just hit you where it hurts", so having a school... well the barbarian guild is probably the closest, but most likely is about beating each other up in that arena to get better.

Sorcerers... well it just comes to them, I don't think theres any real education for them too. But there might be.

Everyone else seems to have some sort of school. Clerics get trained in temples, wizards have to study anyway, rogues get trained by the thieves guild and so on.

[Acero]

Everyone else seems to have some sort of school. Clerics get trained in temples, wizards have to study anyway, rogues get trained by the thieves guild and so on.

it could be safe to say all classes have their own guilds

[paladinofshojo]

You're thinking of the classes' base number skill points, which is more an indication of how spread out one's talents are rather than how smart you are. Wizards would almost invariably have higher intelligence modifiers than most classes.

Ohh that makes sense

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Bard camp? Bard camp??!

Bards go to band camp, people, to play the flute and learn many bardic things.

Cue Elan's American Pie-esque camp flashback


Sorcerers... well it just comes to them, I don't think theres any real education for them too. But there might be.

Well, the headmaster of Pompey's wizard school mentioned an associates degree at their school for sorcerers

[Bibliomancer]

Well, the headmaster of Pompey's wizard school mentioned an associates degree at their school for sorcerers

However, Nale thought that was rather unusual.

[Demiurge]

What does Nale know about spellcasting schools? Look at the ineptness of his character build. Or his ineptness overall.

[Morquard]

it could be safe to say all classes have their own guilds
Yes, I guess most have some sort of guild, but how much the guild is a school depends on the guild in question.
As I said, I doubt Barbarians get real education in their guild, except that they beat each other up and learn that way.

Thiefs apperently get trained by their elders, Haley apperently got training when she was young. Sure her father was a thief too, but I guess it runs with the nature of that guild that it "stays in the family".


Well, the headmaster of Pompey's wizard school mentioned an associates degree at their school for sorcerers
Yeah and in SOD that wheelchair Wizard had his "school for gifted sorcerers that use their powers to safe a world that hates them".
Those are really the only two instances I know of, and in both cases they have a definitive vibe of "they're just second rate casters, but we feel benevolent and let them into our little club. Well at least let them look in through the window".
But as I said, sorcerers don't study, there spells come to them, so I don't really see how a sorcerer school should work.

Also not sure if there are Druid schools.
They're nature folks, I'm sure there's stuff like Druid Circles which teach their apprentices though, so that might count.

[rangermania]

I know it is not strictly related to this comic (other than here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0065.html)) and guys that posted answers before me proved the thread argument wrong but there are more examples to this situation in other societies.

If there are people who reads salvatore (I'm sure there are many) they would remember that in Menzoberranzan there were only two schools (Academies) one pyramid for fighters and the other was Sorcere the school of magic. There was also temple of Loth for female and they didn't even had a chance to choose.

So it doesn't seem very out of logic to only have those as advanced schools.

Other classes wouldn't need many tutors anyways...

[Ancalagon]

If there are people who reads salvatore (I'm sure there are many) they would remember that in Menzoberranzan there were only two schools (Academies) one pyramid for fighters and the other was Sorcerer the school of magic. There was also temple of Loth for female and they didn't even had a chance to choose..

I really think drow-society is a very, very bad example to start from. Let's assume "Drow" are the exception to anything and everything - and we are talking about the oots-world here, not those books from Salvatore or the Forgotten Realms.

It could very well be that the "surface world" works entirely different than the drow society (it does) and it could also be that the oots-world works different than the Realms (and I would not really be surprised if Drow in the oots-world hat more schools than the two mentioned there - the non-drow-world is an even more different matter).

[Joel Rojo]

Hey everyone, I just registered to contribute to this, so with that in mind, 2 things:

1. Fighters are not just dudes who picked up a stick or sharp stick and began to hit people with them. Remember that there's a Warrior NPC class, that already represents trained, professional combatants, and that a fighter is still superior to them.

A fighter is trained to be an efficient combatant with most weapons anywhere, as well as most defensive gear. A fighter is so well trained that he can learn and apply tricks and techniques faster than anyone else. A fighter's understanding of combat allows him to be the best at this "hitting stuff" business.

And that's just right out of the bat, because a fighter doesn't represent a couple of fighting styles (like a ranger or rogue might). If you hear tales of someone being an incredible archer, or a fearsome warrior when mounted on a horse, or a creepy dude with a scythe that, when sufficiently pissed off, leaves nothing standing, or a dexterous fighter full of finesse, or a soldier who charges into battle with an axe on one hand a sword on the other, all of those would be superbly represented with a fighter. Moreso than with any of the other core classes.

So again, a fighter is not a dude who just bashes stuff, and fighter college makes perfect sense.

2. So Fighter's College and Wizard's College make sense, but what about the other classes?

Rogues probably would not have colleges. Considering they specialize in picking locks, stealing stuff, disabling security and spying, well, it would be kind of hard to run a business like that.

Probably a kingdom would train a few select individuals within their army in these activities, but they certainly wouldn't like a school where anyone can learn how to be a criminal AND getting away with it.

Barbarians don't seem like a fit either, because their communities would hardly have proper schools, let alone a college. And, you know, they can't read, so there's that. It makes sense that they have training from a young age, though, as they lead a hard life.

The idea of a Monk is better served with a monastery than with college. And a Cleric would rather go to a seminary. Paladins are a select few, so I think it makes more sense to have them training at the seminary or some other property of their church, perhaps semi-secluded too.

Rangers and druids are not bred within civilization, so mentorship, druidic circles and the like make more sense.

Sorcerers are natural spellcasters, their talent can't be teached. So that leaves Bards, which seem kind of tricky. Even if they would be relatively common in art schools or conservatories, I don't think they have dedicated schools either, and the bard camp thing just seems like an obvious pun on band camp. (and that Elan wouldn't last at a conventional school)

[Morquard]

Well bards are supposed to be more than just the funny guys that sing at the enemy.
They know tons of songs and stories to entertain people, can dance, juggle and all that kind of stuff.
They learn that somewhere, they're not making those stories up on the spot, especially not about historical persons.

So I'm sure there are Bard Schools etc around, but maybe those are for the bards that are destined for royal courts etc, while the average bard goes to a bard camp where they learn the basics, then get tossed out into the world (maybe with an experienced bard mentor) to learn by doing.

[Snake-Aes]

Most types of training and development can be interpreted in pretty much any way. A barbarian may learn to control his rage and fight better as he fights, a wizard never stops gathering research material(wait, is that everglow moss? I need some of it) and revising his own studies while the party walks, a monk(one of my favorite views of a monk's unarmed strike is that of a guy that really just hits people hard, without a proper martial style) will always be training his movements...

[Roderick_BR]

I can imagine wizard schools, cleric's temples, figther's academys (something like enlisting the army), and monk's monasteries.
Bards could do with the bard camp things, where they go learn stories and how to perform.
Now, I can't see rogues (because of their "thief class" past), as attending to any formal school. They learn to survive in the streets. A guild *could* provide training and tutoring, but it would be a case-by-case thing.
Druids, with their druidic circles, could have formal training as well, like the clerics, no biggie.
Barbarians and Rangers, though, like rogues, don't have a formal gathering. Rangers tend to be loners, and barbarians are just non-educated fighters back at their tribes.
Sorcerers would either attend wizard schools for special classes, or be like rogues, learning their stuff on the go.

Of course, you could make schools and/or guilds to every class. These are just my initial impressions about formal training.

[Snake-Aes]

Barbarians and Rangers, though, like rogues, don't have a formal gathering. Rangers tend to be loners, and barbarians are just non-educated fighters back at their tribes.Barbarians are not uneducated like that. If they belong to any kind of society(their tribes), then they are very, very educated. They learn to survive and to fight and learn the traditions of their tribes. They are illiterate, but that's because they never needed to know how to read and write in the first place.

[ericgrau]

Technically every PC class in d&d represents the elite & well trained. Except sorcerer, but that still represents one with especially good natural gifts. The NPC classes represent the poorly trained. Even barbarians are considered the trained warriors/fighters of uncivilized areas. I mean, your standard vanilla orc is a warrior not a barbarian. Rogues are probably the closest class to not being formally trained, besides sorcerers, but even then they practice on their own and there are guilds.

I think OotS is a bit different. I think fighters, paladins, monks, wizards and clerics are the only ones with strict formal schools. Rogues seem to all come from guilds; or at least the ones that you'd let into a party. Bards still have bard camp and barbarians still have crude guilds, etc., but they seem to be easier to train at. EDIT: Wait a second, it seems like everything in OotS has a school and half of them are strict. Even sorcerers have the option of becoming an S-man (see Origin of the PCs, random X-men references in main comic). So what's the big deal?

[MReav]

Sorcerers... well it just comes to them, I don't think theres any real education for them too. But there might be.

Warthog's also had a program for Sorcerers.

[pflare]

Actually sorcerers have an associate's degree as mentioned here
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0253.html
but that may have just been added for humor. Also I'm pretty sure V just studied under a master and didn't atend University at all.

[Dark Faun]

Vaarsuvius studied under Aarindarius. Studying under a master might be the norm in the Elven Homelands though.

[SoC175]

Do we know there's no ranger school? (Or druid school, or cleric school, or whatever.)
Cleric or druid schools would seem strange, it's more likely that each faith trains their own divine classes.

[Kelper]

Cleric or druid schools would seem strange, it's more likely that each faith trains their own divine classes.

Well, druids have circles...

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0345.html

[Mugen Nightgale]

I think of paladins as naturally good individuals that are chosen by a deity to be their champions not the other way around. A talented young boy who can't stand the presence of evil is likely to be chosen by a god to represent him and the greater good. Then after sometime they end up joining temples for better training or seeking bigger challenges.
Rogues live a hard life in most of the cases and they end up having to survive by thievery is just like a ranger but instead of surviving in a wild environment he learns the ways of cities and dungeons.
Barbarians are savage fighters they lack in discipline but make up in brute raw power. Sorcerers have an intuitive understanding of magic not from studying it and experimenting.

[Snake-Aes]

I think of paladins as naturally good individuals that are chosen by a deity to be their champions not the other way around. A talented young boy who can't stand the presence of evil is likely to be chosen by a god to represent him and the greater good. Then after sometime they end up joining temples for better training or seeking bigger challenges.
Rogues live a hard life in most of the cases and they end up having to survive by thievery is just like a ranger but instead of surviving in a wild environment he learns the ways of cities and dungeons.
Barbarians are savage fighters they lack in discipline but make up in brute raw power. Sorcerers have an intuitive understanding of magic not from studying it and experimenting.
They do study and experiment with magic too. It's a natural gift? yeah, it is, but it also has to be developed and you'd rather know what you can do, wouldn't you? It makes a lot of sense that a sorcerer would research almost as much as a wizard.