PDA

View Full Version : Epic PC vs. 1st. lvl Kobold Sorcerers



kpenguin
2009-07-27, 12:47 AM
Get enough level 1 kobold sorcerers with magic missile and you can take down epics.

So, how would an epic level character survive a nigh-infinite number of lvl 1 kobold sorcerers? How would you build such a character?

I'd think anything with enough spell resistance would do it.

Asbestos
2009-07-27, 12:48 AM
I don't know, how long could an Epic level Wizard get 'Shield' to last?

Trodon
2009-07-27, 12:50 AM
Anything with SR 22 or higher will do it. :smallbiggrin:

Fiendish_Dire_Moose
2009-07-27, 12:50 AM
Couldn't an epic wizard just create an anti magic field that he himself could surpass? Thus making it so the kobolds can't cast spells but he can.

VirOath
2009-07-27, 12:54 AM
Couldn't an epic wizard just create an anti magic field that he himself could surpass? Thus making it so the kobolds can't cast spells but he can.

How about the cheapest of all those. Mantle Of Invulnerability: Immune to 4th and lower level spells.

Wizards/Sorcs get it as a spell, and as a globe spell too. 90,000 GP for everyone else.

And shield wouldn't work, it only absorbs 100 points of damage, IIRC.

Best way to challenge the party is to STOP looking at creature mechanics and start playing them intelligently. Then you get to ignore CR rules and wipe your party with Tuckers.

Asbestos
2009-07-27, 12:54 AM
Couldn't an epic wizard just create an anti magic field that he himself could surpass? Thus making it so the kobolds can't cast spells but he can.

Probably, but I think it'd be more embarrassing to use a Level 1 spell to defeat the kobold horde.

Doc Roc
2009-07-27, 12:55 AM
Sr 30 is easy to get.

Asbestos
2009-07-27, 12:56 AM
And shield wouldn't work, it only absorbs 100 points of damage, IIRC.

Best way to challenge the party is to STOP looking at creature mechanics and start playing them intelligently. Then you get to ignore CR rules and wipe your party with Tuckers.

Shield (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shield.htm) doesn't absorb damage as near as I can tell.

Gralamin
2009-07-27, 01:06 AM
Cast an Extended Shield. Laugh as they use up all their spells.

RTGoodman
2009-07-27, 01:12 AM
Shield (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shield.htm) doesn't absorb damage as near as I can tell.

Nope, it just outright BLOCKS magic missiles. It's the brooch of shielding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/WondrousItems.htm#broochofShielding) that can sustain 101 points of damage from magic missiles before becoming useless.

That said, yeah, an Epic wizard is always going to have some form of SR, anti-magic (that they can probably shape), or something else to block those. And even a standard shield spell, using one of a bunch of 1st-level slots that otherwise aren't being put to a lot of use at that level, lasts for 20+ minutes, meaning those kobolds are just gonna run out of spells and then be destroyed by a widen cloudkill or somesuch.

Cieyrin
2009-07-27, 01:13 AM
You're thinking of a Broach of Shielding, which absorbs 101 points of Magic Missile. EDIT: Ninja'd.

In any case, I'd say persistant lesser globe of invulnerability solves your issue magically. I'd probably be more worried about them mobbing you and grappling you to the ground. Enough Aid Another checks should grapple, pin and then attempt to coup de grace him till it finally takes, though that issue is fixed by a heightened fly and heightened protection from arrows or perhaps ironguard, possibly also heightened, as I don't recall what level that is.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

Animefunkmaster
2009-07-27, 01:13 AM
Instead of magic missile, I recall there being a level 1 conjuration spell in spell compendium that auto hits. Has an area (5ft square, but you can metamagic that) and does 1d4 damage, ignores sr. I want to say its called "hail of stones" but I am away from my books right now so I can't check it.

Cieyrin
2009-07-27, 01:16 AM
Instead of magic missile, I recall there being a level 1 conjuration spell in spell compendium that auto hits. Has an area (5ft square, but you can metamagic that) and does 1d4 damage, ignores sr. I want to say its called "hail of stones" but I am away from my books right now so I can't check it.

You think right, though some DR is hardly outside the reach of an epic wizard to deal w/ that spell, as I believe it's not treated as magic damage but physical, since it summons the pebbles and lets gravity do the work from there.

ericgrau
2009-07-27, 01:19 AM
Well it's easy if the mage is prepared. Immunity to low level spells, casting shield right before the kobolds arrive, etc. SR is a bit more plausible, because the epic mage might have it up for other reasons. But otherwise the epic PC is hosed.

PId6
2009-07-27, 01:32 AM
Also, you can change into a Force Dragon and become immune to force damage.

Forget about kobolds, try this: NI number of 1st level warlocks with the Assume Supernatural Ability feat on their Eldritch Blast. It becomes a supernatural ability, meaning it's not subject to Globe of Invulnerability and it ignores SR. Damage is untyped, and they each deal 1d6. Requires a ranged touch attack but, with so many, enough of them would roll natural 20s to kill the wizard.

RTGoodman
2009-07-27, 01:33 AM
I'd probably be more worried about them mobbing you and grappling you to the ground. Enough Aid Another checks should grapple, pin and then attempt to coup de grace him till it finally takes.

Doesn't work - pinned creatures are explicitly NOT helpless, so coup de grace doesn't work. Also, freedom of movement, which in self-respecting Epic character of any kind should either have permanencied or as a ring or something.

oxinabox
2009-07-27, 01:35 AM
umm... your a lvl 20 wizard.
why aren't you in your own private dimiplane...?

What about that lvl 6ish spell that sommons a addymant fortress...1
wait unyil thye beat themselve to death on the walls

The Glyphstone
2009-07-27, 01:35 AM
Also, you can change into a Force Dragon and become immune to force damage.

Forget about kobolds, try this: NI number of 1st level warlocks with the Assume Supernatural Ability feat on their Eldritch Blast. It becomes a supernatural ability, meaning it's not subject to Globe of Invulnerability and it ignores SR. Damage is untyped, and they each deal 1d6. Requires a ranged touch attack but, with so many, enough of them would roll natural 20s to kill the wizard.

Substitute Ray Deflection for Shield and your problem is solved...immunity to all ranged touch attacks.

The Mentalist
2009-07-27, 01:35 AM
If he knows about it I think it's a foregone conclusion (via the methods above) if they get a surprise round I think the that enough magic missiles will take anything.

PId6
2009-07-27, 01:36 AM
Substitute Ray Deflection for Shield and your problem is solved...immunity to all ranged touch attacks.
Not all ranged touch attacks are rays. Would not protect against Eldritch Blast.

kpenguin
2009-07-27, 01:41 AM
Not all ranged touch attacks are rays. Would not protect against Eldritch Blast.

Ray deflection protects against all ranged touch attacks, not just rays.

PId6
2009-07-27, 01:48 AM
Ray deflection protects against all ranged touch attacks, not just rays.
Really? *flips through SC* Wow, that's a lot more broken than I thought! :smalleek:

Sir Homeslice
2009-07-27, 02:02 AM
Tuckers.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha



You're funny.

Irreverent Fool
2009-07-27, 04:49 AM
He'd leave.

obnoxious
sig

Eldariel
2009-07-27, 07:28 AM
The Wizard would win the initiative and due to Foresight wouldn't be surprised (or just have Celerity). The rest is elementary. Although I really wonder what kind of a terrain would allow the Kobold Sorcerers to all have Line of Effect to him in the first place, or for that matter reach him. Any character with Epic Spellcasting also has immunity to all non-epic spells. Of course, no reason not to move around invisible anyways and first level Kobolds can't really detect invisibility

Rogue-type's Hide/Move Silently would be so high that even while attacking and moving, the Kobolds could never detect him so that's a moot question anyways. Add to that Darkstalker and Magic Aura to vanish any item auras around him and yeah... Also, see above.


Now, warrior-types would have it harder (duh, they aren't all that epic); they could take a few hundred hits, but after that the life starts to get hard given low epic. They really need SR from some source to survive the barrage, but unlike casters, they lack the means to generate that and if they aren't specifically prepared for this fight, they won't have wasted money on some SR 22 item that isn't of any use to opponents that are actual threats (and costs a ****ton).

Invisibility is frankly their best bet and quite plausible given how handy it is; Force-immunity and high enough SR are both really hard to get for a warrior, not to mention spell immunities. Although Frenzied Berserker could probably wipe out all the Kobolds before dying and then heal up due to some item effect before the Frenzy ends (or just drown himself :smalltongue:) and a Knight's Loyalty Beyond Death could also keep him going. Crusader would have it harder due to Undying Fortitude requiring constant refreshing meaning it'll eventually be penetrated. Of course, if they have become immune to Magic Missile due to some item, negating the other level 1-spells with standard epic gear is childs' play.

Gaiyamato
2009-07-27, 07:38 AM
Infinite Kobold level 1 Wizard - Conjurers with Imediate Magic: Abrupt Jaunt and all of them having a different variety of Lesser orb of X, which gives no saving throw and ignores SR.

Make some batteries of group dispellers with scrolls of dispel magic, disjunction and greater dispel magic. They can aid other on the UMD. lol.

The enemy Wizard might win init, but he will struggle to kill all of them in one turn.
His only hope is to teleport or trick his way out.

For extra giggle scatter a bunch of evocationists with counterfire in the mix. lol.

Wizard counter: Gate, step through. Wave good bye. End gate.
Or, Planeshift.

Wings of Peace
2009-07-27, 08:05 AM
Initiate of Mystra with Permanent Emanation Anti-Magic Field and Permanent Emanation Greater Consumptive field. Then watch the cleric walk casually along throngs of kobold corpses falling to the ground as he passes by.

erikun
2009-07-27, 08:08 AM
Time Stop, Greater Invisibility, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, Cloudkill

The kobolds can't dispel your Glove of Invulnerability without a targeted dispel, and even then, they'll need to make a 1d20+5 check against a DC 30+. Lesser orbs have no affect inside the Globe, even if they could target the right square.

Cloudkill both blocks sight and auto-kills your kobolds.

Ellington
2009-07-27, 08:08 AM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spellImmunity.htm

Am I missing something? There seems to be a pretty easy solution to this.

Indon
2009-07-27, 08:27 AM
A monk with a nonmagical longbow and some magical source of infinite arrows?

Are the nigh-infinite sorcerors surrounding the PC?

Eldariel
2009-07-27, 08:38 AM
Infinite Kobold level 1 Wizard - Conjurers with Imediate Magic: Abrupt Jaunt and all of them having a different variety of Lesser orb of X, which gives no saving throw and ignores SR.

Make some batteries of group dispellers with scrolls of dispel magic, disjunction and greater dispel magic. They can aid other on the UMD. lol.

The enemy Wizard might win init, but he will struggle to kill all of them in one turn.
His only hope is to teleport or trick his way out.

For extra giggle scatter a bunch of evocationists with counterfire in the mix. lol.

Wizard counter: Gate, step through. Wave good bye. End gate.
Or, Planeshift.

Or open Gate, summon something that kills them fast (say, something with Meteor Swarm SLA - a Balor would do nicely, although a Great Wyrm Red would probably be more amusing) and then teleport away. Or Time Stop and lay down a lot of Cloudkills. But mostly, summon something and become immune to the nubs (y'know, bring up your Globe or whatever - although if you're an epic caster, you'll have a Ward that makes you constantly immune anyways).

Note that only Scroll of Disjunction has the chance of affecting the Wizard and it's a minimum of DC 37 UMD to activate, or an insanely high Caster Level check, and the Wizard is like to be able to counter/misdirect a Disjunction or two. And we're talking about level 1 Sorcs/Wizards, how the hell do they have Disjunction scrolls anyways?


Eh, this is no contest - the Kobolds don't have a chance against an epic caster. If he's using Epic Spellcasting, Disjunction does nothing. Attacks do nothing. You'll need another character with Epic Spellcasting, not an infinite horde of level 1 mooks. The real question is, what's the method of least effort for the Wizard to kill all of the Kobolds.

PId6
2009-07-27, 08:42 AM
The real question is, what's the method of least effort for the Wizard to kill all of the Kobolds.
Symbol of Insanity on a bouncy ball, of course.

Eldariel
2009-07-27, 08:45 AM
Symbol of Insanity on a bouncy ball, of course.

5000gp to kill a bunch of Kobolds? Seems wasteful.

Morty
2009-07-27, 08:46 AM
5000gp to kill a bunch of Kobolds? Seems wasteful.

What is 5000gp for an epic level character, though? Especially an epic caster.

Curmudgeon
2009-07-27, 08:49 AM
Easy answer: just be on a different plane. Plane Shift is way above those Kobold's pay grade.

But if you're going to hang around to taunt them, there's something to worry about. Launch Bolt with siege engine bolts will get through Wind Wall, and Protection from Arrows has a damage cap. An infinite number of those, with 5% getting through, will be hard to handle. After all, an infinite number will kill you in the first round. :smallwink:

Basically you need to beat them all on initiative, and kill them all before they have a chance to act. Or just don't engage.

Indon
2009-07-27, 08:51 AM
Frankly, you don't even need an epic character, let alone a spellcaster.

10 DR, 25 SR, and a Ring of Regeneration should be enough for just about any character to kill an arbitrarily high number of kobolds, provided only the character has the ability to avoid the need to eat, drink, and sleep.

A 4,000 gold iown stone removes the need to eat and drink. Flipping through the rules doesn't seem to mention anything about penalties for not sleeping, other than not getting your natural healing which would be supplimented by a ring of regeneration anyway.

woodenbandman
2009-07-27, 09:10 AM
Prismatic Sphere + Boots of Walking.

Fitz
2009-07-27, 09:15 AM
kobolds fall everyone dies laughing?:smallbiggrin:

Bury in an infinite avalance of kobolds !

Bayar
2009-07-27, 09:16 AM
Not getting your spells back.

But this is no contest. Even if all the kobolds were dragonwrought loredrakes, they would be stuck with 1st lvl spells until lvl 2.

They need stuff like Tucker tactics, launching ballista bolts through murderholes, while having the rooms in the dungeon filled with traps and tripwires on the corridors so no one can bypass them by flying, collapsing walls that also spew lava would be an example, use launch item with flasks of alchemists whatever, each of them summon up pazuzu for a wish....


And even then, a spellcaster could just use Exterminatus on their dungeon, making the whole issue moot.

Indon
2009-07-27, 09:17 AM
Prismatic Sphere + Boots of Walking.

Does this plan involve pushing the wall into people? As an abjuration spell, that might be a problem - it depends on if your DM rules 'almost everything' to count as 'certain types of creatures'.

ericgrau
2009-07-27, 09:24 AM
Also, you can change into a Force Dragon and become immune to force damage.

Unless some of the infinite kobolds get their turn before yours. Then you die first. Same with most other spells. This is what I mean by it depends whether or not you're prepared. If you see the kobolds coming you cast shield - a 1st level spell no less - or whatever and you're safe. But obviously we don't hear about low level wizards having no fear of magic missile just because shield is on their spell list.

PId6
2009-07-27, 09:37 AM
Unless some of the infinite kobolds get their turn before yours. Then you die first. Same with most other spells. This is what I mean by it depends whether or not you're prepared. If you see the kobolds coming you cast shield - a 1st level spell no less - or whatever and you're safe. But obviously we don't hear about low level wizards having no fear of magic missile just because shield is on their spell list.
Celerity, not to mention it's quite impossible for a kobold to beat an epic wizard's initiative. And a high SR is a given on epic characters. Mantle of Epic Spell Resistance is one of the most useful epic items.

Eldariel
2009-07-27, 09:58 AM
Unless some of the infinite kobolds get their turn before yours. Then you die first. Same with most other spells. This is what I mean by it depends whether or not you're prepared. If you see the kobolds coming you cast shield - a 1st level spell no less - or whatever and you're safe. But obviously we don't hear about low level wizards having no fear of magic missile just because shield is on their spell list.

Moment of Prescience means that you beat their 20 with your 1. Their numbers don't matter; infinite rolls can never result in a number greater than 20. That's the whole point, high level Wizard is going to win the initiative and is going to go first. Although since we're talking about an epic Wizard, he'll be immune to everything they throw at him anyways regardless of who goes first.

Furthermore, high level Wizard has the means to walk around Invisible which means that going first is no benefit for the Kobolds as they don't know there's something to hit there.


There's a huge difference between what a high-level Wizard can keep online at all times vs. what a low-level Wizard can. Further, we're talking Epic here which means permanent wards of varying kinds.

Cieyrin
2009-07-27, 11:52 AM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spellImmunity.htm

Am I missing something? There seems to be a pretty easy solution to this.

First that it's a cleric-only spell and second that it only blocks certain spells. He'd have to be way overpowered to hit all the first level spells available. Plus, some 1st level spells ignore SR, anyways, so it's a moot point for those. Rain of Stone and the various Orbs, for example.

Plus, I'm wondering why this epic wizard doesn't have contingencies running to keep his ass safe in whatever doom's day scenario raises its ugly head. The infinite kobold hordes of Pun-Pun seem to fit into that type of scenario, if you ask me.

PId6
2009-07-27, 11:59 AM
First that it's a cleric-only spell and second that it only blocks certain spells. He'd have to be way overpowered to hit all the first level spells available. Plus, some 1st level spells ignore SR, anyways, so it's a moot point for those. Rain of Stone and the various Orbs, for example.

Plus, I'm wondering why this epic wizard doesn't have contingencies running to keep his ass safe in whatever doom's day scenario raises its ugly head. The infinite kobold hordes of Pun-Pun seem to fit into that type of scenario, if you ask me.
Well, those two spells are the only ones I can think of without SR; there aren't many SR-free damage spells accessible at 1st level. Orbs are ranged touch, which are stopped by Ray Deflection (not to mention the easy to get energy resistance) while Hail of Stone has a costly material component, meaning it's prohibitively expensive if you're allowing NI kobolds to cast it all at once, especially on top of the costs of equipping every one of them with an item of See Invisibility.

He really shouldn't be wasting contingencies on puny kobolds.

Milskidasith
2009-07-27, 12:04 PM
Not to mention it wouldn't be hard for an epic wizard to get DR/10 running. Or simply be astrally projecting himself at all times.

I'm not sure if anything other than a wizard (or similar arcane caster) could reasonably prepare for this, though. Everybody else would probably die.

Signmaker
2009-07-27, 12:10 PM
Here's a really easy kobold destruction method: UMD a CL 18 scroll of control winds.

Congrats, the kobolds are now tornado'd for 720 feet outwards, only one in twenty will survive the first round, and only one in four hundred the second. Can't be hit by missiles of any size, and the wizard simply just leaves after making the tornado. Additionally, I highly doubt that the casters will be able to make the concentration check for magical weather, thus disabling them from attacking with spells.

Basically, the wizard could pretend to be a druid and STILL beat the kobolds.

Eldariel
2009-07-27, 12:14 PM
Here's a really easy kobold destruction method: UMD a CL 18 scroll of control winds.

Congrats, the kobolds are now tornado'd for 720 feet outwards, only one in twenty will survive the first round, and only one in four hundred the second. Can't be hit by missiles of any size, and the wizard simply just leaves after making the tornado. Additionally, I highly doubt that the casters will be able to make the concentration check for magical weather, thus disabling them from attacking with spells.

Basically, the wizard could pretend to be a druid and STILL beat the kobolds.

However, he's again expending resources. Limited Wish likewise costs some XP. A way to kill them without such expediture would be vastly preferable (5000 gold too... You spend 5000, get nothing? Not a good trade).

Ellington
2009-07-27, 12:29 PM
First that it's a cleric-only spell and second that it only blocks certain spells. He'd have to be way overpowered to hit all the first level spells available. Plus, some 1st level spells ignore SR, anyways, so it's a moot point for those. Rain of Stone and the various Orbs, for example.

Plus, I'm wondering why this epic wizard doesn't have contingencies running to keep his ass safe in whatever doom's day scenario raises its ugly head. The infinite kobold hordes of Pun-Pun seem to fit into that type of scenario, if you ask me.

He never mentioned anything about an epic wizard, just an epic character. The question is how a character could be able to survive an onslaught of level 1 kobold sorcerers with an emphasis on them knowing magic missile. I don't even think the character would need to be epic to do that. Just get a regular cleric, spell immunity for magic missile and some energy resists for the other spells they'd cast (lol, acid splash).

Are they allowed to make physical attacks as well?

Indon
2009-07-27, 12:35 PM
I'm not sure if anything other than a wizard (or similar arcane caster) could reasonably prepare for this, though. Everybody else would probably die.

I don't think it's that hard - you just need a class with a variety of defensive capabilities (at least, enough to buy a couple).


Are they allowed to make physical attacks as well?

They wouldn't be able to get much out of Magic Weapon if they can't.

A level 20 Monk pretty much can't be harmed by their spells, or by any attack unless enhanced by Magic Weapon (which the Kobolds no doubt have, so we need to deal with that).

So let's say our Monk's level 21. For his first epic feat, he takes Infinite Deflection - now a thousand-plus kobolds with Magic Weapon'd bows firing up to their maximum range modifier all at him each and every round can no longer harm him no matter how many nat 20's they get.

So now we need only worry about the eight (enlarge person can't make them large, since they start out small) kobolds in melee, each with a weapon with Magic Weapon on it. One in twenty will hit, and DR to make himself immune to the 1/400 critical hit isn't really feasible, so our Monk needs a way to recover health. He levels to 24 and takes Fast Healing. If 3 points of fast healing isn't enough, he levels to 25 and takes it again.

Given an iown stone that allows the monk to function without food or drink, and an Elan or other immortal race (so the monk can not die of age beating up an infinite number of kobolds), then it seems a monk could do it.

Eventually.

Edit: That would be an awesome in-game joke. A subplane of One Monk Kicking An Infinite Number of Kobold Sorcerors In The Head One At A Time (Formerly the subplane of An Infinite Number of Kobold Sorcerors, until the monk showed up).

PId6
2009-07-27, 12:42 PM
Why not just anyone with enough gp to buy a Ring of Invisibility? Lvl 1 kobolds really have no way to counter that at all.

erikun
2009-07-27, 12:52 PM
5000 gp may not be worth spending to kill a large group of kobolds, but to kill an infinitely large group of kobolds? Sure. It's not like that's something you run into every day.

Other counters: Continuous Gate to preferred elemental plane of choice + Energy Protection. Flood the area with fire, drown them all, zombify them and re-enact Day of the Dead, or just watch them all pop like popcorn (Positive Energy Plane).


For that matter, if you're giving the kobolds infinite wealth, why not just make them throw Staffs of Power and Alchemist Fire at the wizard? Eventually, one is going to break, and that'll be quite a chain reaction.

Indon
2009-07-27, 01:00 PM
The subplane of Infinite Kobold Sorcerors Being Immolated By Combusting Magical Items?

Now that's a hostile place.

Signmaker
2009-07-27, 01:03 PM
However, he's again expending resources. Limited Wish likewise costs some XP. A way to kill them without such expediture would be vastly preferable (5000 gold too... You spend 5000, get nothing? Not a good trade).

Well, that was just a wizard pretending to be an entirely difference class. Just by, ahem, being himself he'd likely do a lot more.

Geddoe
2009-07-27, 01:04 PM
Any stealth rogue should be taking the mythic shadow epic destiny, so she is constantly under the effect of greater invisibility(starting at level 21, the first level into epic) unless she chooses not to be(and unless she specifically wants to interact with people, why wouldn't she be invisible at all times). So even if the kobolds win initiative, they just sit around wondering who to magic missile, then their allies start developing fatal cases of open arteries. Or the void incarnate, the crappy mythic shadow which grants immunity to force damage

A swordsage could do the same thing, only he kills them a lot faster with Inferno Blast every other turn.

No amount of non magical arrows are going to matter against any pc, because any epic level PC can afford to have the starmantle effect added to their cloak.

Tuckers Kobolds do nothing, because after a sufficiently high level PC's are immune to all energy damage(so no molotov cocktails) and any of the kobold attacks or spike traps disintegrate on the Starmantle Cloaks.

The fighter is a bit trickier, but could probably get a slotless Shield spell item that is a continuous effect. Couple that with the DR feats and he is invincible to their physical attacks as well.

Spell casters were already detailed in the thread. All the other classes would just be variants of either the fighter, the rogue or spellcasters.

PS. I tended to focus on tactics or items that are just generally useful such as mythic shadow, starmantle, and energy immunity or even resistance 15 shuts down the Tucker Kobolds, and lets you walk into burning buildings to pull out orphans(or carry them back in, if that is your thing). Fighters know that magic missiles always hit, and enough of them add up. So he gets the Shield effect for that and to avoid having to worry about his animated shield all the time.

Jalor
2009-07-27, 01:05 PM
Greater Celerity. Lesser Globe of Invulnerability. Quickened Greater Invisibility. Win.

Augmented Lurk
2009-07-27, 01:35 PM
I think a Warlock could handle this. Warlocks have all-day, at will greater invisibility and fly effects. They also have a small amount of damage reduction, which should be enough to protect them from any lucky hits (unless the kobolds have cold iron arrows). Basically, just fly around while invisible and launch AoE Eldritch Blasts all over the place. It would take awhile, but it should work.

Woodsman
2009-07-27, 01:37 PM
Give the kobolds a Wand of Antimagic Ray.

Ka-ching.

Eldariel
2009-07-27, 02:25 PM
Any stealth rogue should be taking the mythic shadow epic destiny, so she is constantly under the effect of greater invisibility(starting at level 21, the first level into epic) unless she chooses not to be(and unless she specifically wants to interact with people, why wouldn't she be invisible at all times). So even if the kobolds win initiative, they just sit around wondering who to magic missile, then their allies start developing fatal cases of open arteries. Or the void incarnate, the crappy mythic shadow which grants immunity to force damage

You don't need Mythic Shadow. All you need is high Hide, Darkstalker and HiPS and Nystul's Magic Aura on all your items to stop Detect Magic detection and you're done; they'll have no way of locating you ever. Then snipe/split up them all. With Skill Mastery, you only need ~+55 Hide and Move Silently or so to be completely undetectable by them while you slice 'em all up, which is rather trivially available by level 20 (23 ranks, 13 dex, 4 size, 15 Greater Shadow Armor, for example out of core with little effort).


The fighter is a bit trickier, but could probably get a slotless Shield spell item that is a continuous effect. Couple that with the DR feats and he is invincible to their physical attacks as well.

Most Fighter-types needs specific preparation, which is the biggest problem. Rogue-types and casters win this by default (even if not going Epic; Epic just makes it even easier).


I actually covered this before :smalltongue:



Give the kobolds a Wand of Antimagic Ray.

Ka-ching.

What does that do? It gives a Will-save, requires you to be able to target the creature you're hitting and still doesn't penetrate Epic Ward against mortal magic. Oh, and Wands of over level 4 spells don't exist. Disjunction is the first thing that gives them a fighting chance.

Fitz
2009-07-27, 02:39 PM
ok there is a way for the kobolds to win, but it takes a lot of time.

kobold duels: each kolbold fights another kobold, pairing off until aproximatly half are level 2, since half of an infinite number is an infinite number itself we now have an infinite number of lvl 2 kobold sorcerers .

repeat until all kobolds are epic level sorcerers .

have the ritual cast destroying all other magic users

burn lots of xp and damage

get some obcenely power epic spell cast by having an infinite number of epic kobolds socerers contribute epic spell slots

kobolds win


but that was probably not the solution you were looking for was it :smallbiggrin::smalltongue:

Fitz

Signmaker
2009-07-27, 02:42 PM
By that same token a caster could brainwash X amount of kobolds who, when given high enough casting, brainwash other kobolds to follow you.