healing spells with boost items

[Jimbob]

Afternoon all,

Im currently playing a wiz3/cle3 heading towards MT next level and I have taken practice spell caster for both but last night the DM and I had a bit of falling out over a few items I have got.

My CMW currently does 2d8+13 (+6CL, +1 healing domain, +1 ring of mystic healing, +1 reserve healing feat, for which I can not remember what its called +4 augment healing)

But the ring of mystic healing gives you 3 charges a day to add so many d6 onto any healing spell cast in that round so I combinded this with my empowered spell shard of 2nd level and on average I was healing 45hp. But then when I managed 60 from a CMW the DM popped up and said "how the hell are you doing that??" So I explained to him and he has ruled that the ring of mystic healing only comes in after the rest of the spell and the empower.

So reading MIC it did nto really clear it up, so can any of you great minds clear this up please.

Oh and any way I can increase my healing even further??

Thanks to you all in advanced

[Daefos]

My CMW currently does 2d8+13 (+6CL, +1 healing domain, +1 ring of mystic healing, +1 reserve healing feat, for which I can not remember what its called +4 augment healing)

I can't help you with your main problem, sorry, but I'm pretty sure that as a 3rd level cleric, your Cure Moderate Wounds would have a caster level bonus of 3.

[Kzickas]

I can't help you with your main problem, sorry, but I'm pretty sure that as a 3rd level cleric, your Cure Moderate Wounds would have a caster level bonus of 3.

Practised spellcaster, said so in OP

[Daefos]

Yeah, I forgot about that. >_>

[T.G. Oskar]

Can you clarify how that empowered spell shard works? If it's swift activation (as most do), you can't combine with Ring of Mystic Healing. That should be the first thing to check upon.

Second, he's going by the ruling of how multipliers affect precision damage: essentially, he's ruling that the RoMH doesn't add to your empowered cure moderate wounds just as Sneak Attack dice don't add to the critical multipliers. That ruling technically only applies to critical damage modifiers: Empower Spell works in a different way, and never accounted for dice augmentations to damage. So the ruling can go by either side, and in that case, the DM's decision wins.

However, you might want to see how your healing works, just so you tell your DM to lose fear of "OMG HEALIGN OVERFLO".

If you go by numbers, the main result would be:
Without Empower: 2d8 + 13 = 15~29
With Empower: (2d8)*1.5 + 13 = 16~37

Now, adding the charges of Rings of Mystic Healing:
1 charge
Without Empower: 2d8 + 2d6 + 13 = 17~43
With Empower (DM ruling): (2d8)*1.5 + 2d6 + 13 = 18~49
With Empower (all dice): (2d8 + 2d6)*1.5 + 13 = 19~55

By no means you'd be getting 60 to healing unless you wasted all the ring's charges, which means you're going nova on healing. That doesn't work as an average: it means you pretty much wasted your healing resources on one single casting, which is hardly inefficient since afterwards you're limited to unempowered, unenhanced healing which is hardly as potent as you may think (as seen above) Average would be 22 without Empower, 26 with Empower, 30 with one ring charge. Combining both, you have a very limited amount of times you can reach an average of 36 per spell cast (3/day). Meanwhile, your average Fighter will probably have an average of 47 total HP, at the same level. While quite effective, it's not exactly gamebreaking as you're pooling all your resources into healing that amount of HP only 1-3 times per day, depending on the amount of charges expended and the spell shard; afterwards, you're going for less healing than you could. Even more, you can only cast one single 2nd level spell (two with bonus spells by ability score), so you can pull off that trick twice per day at most, while at the same time denying your party effective buffs such as Bear's Endurance (for everyone), Bull's Strength (for your fighters), Eagle's Splendor (for a Cha-lover), Lesser Restoration, Owl's Wisdom (for yourself) and Resist Energy.

So, while the DM can rule as he desires, it's unnecessarily nerfing a boost to healing when you're pretty much limiting yourself to healing duty, while you could do other things with your spells (such as actually preventing your buddies to get harmed...) Try and argue to your DM if he can allow it, but he shouldn't be surprised to see how much you're sacrificing for getting a really high result on a single Cure spell...

[Jimbob]

T.G Oskar

It is a swift action so that clears that up.

I was taking the healing as (2d8)+ 13*1.5 = 22~43 so I think thats where I got my numbers from, is that the wrong way to go about it then?
But with using 1 charge of the ring I worked it out to be

2d8+2d6+13*1.5 = 25~61 which can make a big difference to having it come in after, which would look like
2d8+13*1.5+2d6 = 24~55 which is still not to bad though.

Im also packing 2 pearls of power 2nd level so including my healing domain which is CMW I dont think im that bad off as I still can prepare all the buff's and if i need healing I can recall any 2nd level spell that ive cast.

[T.G. Oskar]

It is a swift action so that clears that up.

Suspected as much. Most of the time, activating any magic item is a swift action, so I went with that ruling. Now you know that you can't combine them, so it's either one thing or the other.


I was taking the healing as (2d8)+ 13*1.5 = 22~43 so I think thats where I got my numbers from, is that the wrong way to go about it then?

Not by RAW (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#empowerSpell). Empower Spell only affects the variable portion of the spell, but only the random variables (so no to saving throw or variables that increase by level such as the Cure X Wounds extra healing).


Im also packing 2 pearls of power 2nd level so including my healing domain which is CMW I dont think im that bad off as I still can prepare all the buff's and if i need healing I can recall any 2nd level spell that ive cast.

Hmm, I had distinctively forgotten you had the Healing domain (you mentioned it after all). I reckon you wish to continue with the Mystic Theurge path, but you'd be well advised to take the Radiant Servant of Pelor if you're that into healing. You'll be getting at level 16 spells from Cleric and Wizard of level 13, and you seem to favor buffing over battlefield control, so it makes a bit of sense. However, the requisites may be a bit stringent. You could also work with Combat Medic (Heroes of Battle, page 99) as well: while the entry prerequisites may not seem that useful since you're losing two feat slots for one pretty pointless feat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#combatCasting) and one mildly useful feat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#dodge), the other benefits are pretty decent (add a sanctuary (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sanctuary.htm) effect, a bonus to Reflex saves and a maximized aid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/aid.htm)), nets you Evasion and also the ability to spontaneously replace 6th level spells with heal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heal.htm), plus a much needed boost on Reflex saves.

I'd like to know what you're planing with Mystic Theurge, since as far as I can see, if you can delay your MT progression for levels in Combat Medic, most of your people will appreciate it (since you already heal quite well, and you'd be adding decent rider effects to the cure wounds spells) This works perfectly if you're planning to get most of the Wizard's buffs and defensive spells.

[Jimbob]

My plan with my character is to take 2 levels of MT and then go the rest RSOP. This is so I can have 3rd level wizard spells and not lose any cleric spells and then at 9th I can take the extra turning feat which I had forgotten to take at 6th and go all the way with RSOP.

This way I have a few more wizard battle controll spells or fireball dont mind either and my healing has not taken a knock and my healing spells just do more and more.