Looking for research/learning books on history and science

[Icewalker]

I'm looking to find some good books to do some simple learning out of. History books on any specific time, preferably relatively simple in scope (not going into too much detail). I'm most interested in long past civilizations, ancient Greece, ancient Egypt, ancient China, whatever else, but other times are fine as well. When it comes to science books, more detail is fine, but a book written for the layman is far better. Generally on the sciences I'm interested in the more esoteric subjects: relativity, quantum mechanics/chaos, neuroscience, astrophysics, etc. Anyone have any suggestions for good books to look into?

Edit: Actually, a good website is acceptable as well, but not a one page summary kind of thing, a website with real information on a single subject that one could spend a significant time looking over.

[RTGoodman]

Don't know about science stuff, but I AM a medievalist, so here's some good, simple, history books about the Middle Ages (and mostly the early Middle Ages).

-Penguin History of Medieval Europe - Maurice Keen
-Penguin History of the Early Church - Henry Chadwick
-Medieval Lives - Terry Jones (yes, the Monty Python guy)
-Life in a Medieval [Castle/City/Village] - Frances & Joseph Gies (three separate books)
-The Crusades Through Arab Eyes - Amin Maalouf
-Europe and the Middle Ages - Edward Peters (more textbooky, but still readable)

[Krrth]

Well, I can give you some advice that a professor of mine gave me. Check out Wikipedia. While it's not acceptable for reports, the sources listed at the bottom of the article are usually a good place to start.

[Milskidasith]

While this is a bit off topic, I never got why people consider wikipedia to be unreliable; it's actually more reliable than print and paper encyclopedias.

[valadil]

The best historical science book I ever read is Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond. In the book he discusses why history played out the way it did according to geography and resources. If you've ever wondered why Columbus sailed to America to conquer the natives instead of the other way around, this book sets out to explain it.

[Krrth]

While this is a bit off topic, I never got why people consider wikipedia to be unreliable; it's actually more reliable than print and paper encyclopedias.

It's generally considered unreliable because it's so easily edited. In college at least you generally need to document your sources, and Wiki doesn't count.

[Icewalker]

Wikipedia is most of what I use now, which is why I put up this thread to find more significant sources. There's only so far you can go with good information there, and it's not terribly well formatted for learning, although often following it through to the references can help, yes.

(Generally, one can fix the 'no Wiki for sources' issue by just reading the article, then finding the information in its referenced sources, then reference those. ::smallwink: )

Anyways, thanks for the suggestions! It's a good start.

[Corlindale]

I''ve got The New Penguin History of the World - I haven't quite got through it, but it's nice for the broad overview. I should probably get back to it soon, as a matter of fact.

For science there are a lot of options. Roger Penrose's The Road to Reality is supposed to be good for learning Physics, but it is a bit heavy in the amount of math it includes. Once again, I haven't quite gotten through it, but it seems good and comprehensive. It certainly covers many of the "esoteric" subjects, but its philosophy of wanting to gradually introduce the reader to the math behind the physics in great detail may not be to everyone's taste.

Bill Bryson's A Brief History of Nearly Everything is a more simple alternative, but I don't remember how well it covers the more advanced stuff.

[Cyrion]

Try Isaac Asimov's "New Guide to Science."

Wikipedia is generally not considered a valid reference because it's not peer reviewed in a traditional scholarly way, and it hasn't been until recently that it's been reliable. It didn't used to be as thoroughly referenced as it is now.

[RTGoodman]

Bill Bryson's A Brief History of Nearly Everything is a more simple alternative, but I don't remember how well it covers the more advanced stuff.

I haven't read that particular book, but all of Bill Bryson's books are at once funny and informative. I've read "A Walk in the Woods" (about the author's attempt to hike the entire Appalachian Trail), "I'm a Stranger Here Myself" (about his return to America after living in Britain for several decades), and "The Mother Tongue: English and How it Got That Way" (an overview of the history of the English language), and I loved all of them.


As far as Wikipedia goes, it's not traditionally edited for correctness. I could go edit a page now and people might not find out my change was incorrect for years, while in the meantime folks tried to use it for a source and just got screwed. Yeah, it's an okay place to get a start, but it's nowhere NEAR a legitimate source for anything scholarly. Read a book or academic journal article instead.

[Serpentine]

Alas, most of my books are all safely boxed away. If you're interested in understanding evolution, though, I recommend The Counter-Creationism Handbook by Mark Isaak. Don't worry about the title. It goes through every objection, issue, query and misunderstanding various people (not just the ones in the title. Me, even) have put to evolution (and science in general), and explains them in easy-to-understand terms and gives plenty of sources.

If this thread's still going in a few weeks, I'll go through my collection then.

The main issue I know of regarding Wikipedia is that it's not "peer-reviewed" to academic standards (of course, one could argue that it's the most peer-reviewed media in existance...).

[Icewalker]

Yeh, Wikipedia is not regulated and scholarly enough to qualify as a source for a serious academic paper, but it is perfect if you want to look up information.

As to whether the thread is still going, this question is a permanent one for me: I will always be looking for things such as this. Thanks for the additional suggestions, I'm going to go add them all to a list...

An extra note: Another thing I find quite interesting and worth reading in the same vein is actual old texts. This is why I have a 228 page compilation of hermetic (alchemical) texts, the Egyptian Book of the Dead, and the Dao De Jing saved on my computer, as well as a number of other similar documents either saved or online. (The Prose Edda, one of the main sources of Norse mythology: a very fun read. The Norse gods were total jerks, it's wonderful!)

[LCR]

If you're seriously interested in neurosciences, I can recommend "Principles of Neural Sciences" (http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Neural-Science-Eric-Kandel/dp/0071120009/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248770507&sr=8-4) by Eric Kandel et al. It is very exhaustive, very detailed and once you've read it, you probably know all there is to know about neurosciences, without having to finish a neurology residence or actually being a physiologist.

[Icewalker]

Wow, that's probably the best thing ever, considering that I am actually significantly intending to go into and likely major in some aspect of neuroscience, but have little academic basis in the field. Fantastic!

[LCR]

Then go for it. It is an awesome book. Be warned, though, after reading it, you'll see ion channels everywhere.

Another good book on the same topic, sometimes easier to understand, would be "Exploring the Brain (http://www.amazon.com/Neuroscience-Exploring-Brain-Mark-Bear/dp/0781760038/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248771180&sr=8-1)".

[Serpentine]

An extra note: Another thing I find quite interesting and worth reading in the same vein is actual old texts. This is why I have a 228 page compilation of hermetic (alchemical) texts, the Egyptian Book of the Dead, and the Dao De Jing saved on my computer, as well as a number of other similar documents either saved or online. (The Prose Edda, one of the main sources of Norse mythology: a very fun read. The Norse gods were total jerks, it's wonderful!)Oh, excellent. If I remember in a few weeks, I'll dig out all my ancient texts. In the meantime, Herodotus (The Histories) is one of the first historians. The Vinland Sagas are both gorily epic, and describe the real first discovery of the Americas by Europeans. Games of Venus is an excellent introduction to the erotic poetry of ancient Greece and Rome. Caesar's Civil Wars are a great read, and brilliant propaganda. One of my lecturers considers Pilgrim's Progress to be one of the most influential texts of English history.
Don't forget, the Gutenberg Project is a great source for these things.

[LCR]

I have enjoyed Ovid's "Metamorphosis" when I was in high school. What I didn't enjoy was translating it, but I guess you don't have to do that, so you should be fine (or maybe you're fluent in Latin).

If you're looking into the Gutenberg project, there's also a translation of Clausewitz's "On War", which is mostly about strategy and ... stuff. I've never read more than the first two sentences of the preface. But maybe you'll enjoy it, I hear it is quite good.

[RTGoodman]

In the meantime, Herodotus (The Histories) is one of the first historians.

First historian? Hah, more like Father of Lies! :smalltongue:


http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff28/beatonna/herodotus1.jpg (http://beatonna.livejournal.com/48242.html)


If you're interested in ancient texts, you should do yourself a favor and read the classics - grab the Iliad, the Aeneid, the Odyssey, maybe the Metamorphosis, that kind of stuff. I also realy liked The Golden Ass (a.k.a. Lucius Apuleius' Metamorphoses) when we read it in my Roman North Africa seminar, though I don't think it's as famous as the others.

[Keshay]

I hear that there used to be repositories of knowlege where books were kept called libraries. They were normally maintained by either academic institutions and/or communities.

Seriously, is it really easier to ask random strangers on the internet about "general learning books" than it would to just go to a library and take a look through the index? Espically when you really have no specific topic in mind to start with?

Sorry for the tone, but really... Its as if you've tried nothing and are all out of ideas.

[RTGoodman]

Seriously, is it really easier to ask random strangers on the internet about "general learning books" than it would to just go to a library and take a look through the index? Espically when you really have no specific topic in mind to start with?

Depending on where you live, yeah, maybe. My local library has a relatively large kid's section, a big selection of romance and other fiction, but basically no non-fiction. Or, at least, their "non-fiction" section is composed of old encyclopedias, some local history, and a bunch of other outdated stuff, and there's a good chance they won't have something on your particular topic. I was trying to read up on the Easter Rising and Irish history, and the only books at all that they had were two Ireland travel guides from the early to mid '90s.

[Icewalker]

I hear that there used to be repositories of knowlege where books were kept called libraries. They were normally maintained by either academic institutions and/or communities.

Seriously, is it really easier to ask random strangers on the internet about "general learning books" than it would to just go to a library and take a look through the index? Espically when you really have no specific topic in mind to start with?

Sorry for the tone, but really... Its as if you've tried nothing and are all out of ideas.

Yes. Yes it is. It is absurdly easier, more functional, efficient, and will provide greatly superior things to read. Because do you really think I will be able to determine the details of the exact subject of a book, the level of focus, the level of detail, and most importantly the quality, from a title and maybe a one sentence description? The answer is no. So I can either run around my library blindfolded and hope I find some good texts, or I can ask this network of people who have read numerous interesting and apt texts, and can suggest those that I am actually looking for with assurance of quality, subject, and detail. So, yes, this is a hugely better method than looking through the thousands upon thousands of books in the index of a library to hopefully find some way to pick out the good texts.

And 'start with' is the wrong phrasing here. I'm not picking a topic to look into, I'm getting sources such that I can look into every topic. :smallwink:

Thanks for the additional suggestions, all great stuff. I've been intending to read the Iliad, the Aeneid, the Odyssey for years, they're just significant enough of an undertaking that I have yet to do so. I'm sure I will before too long.

[Zocelot]

Here is a list of books that I've made. All of them are related to physics, since I know nothing about history or neuroscience.

Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman (Not actually all that good for learning about physics, but it's good for learning about physicists, and it's a very enjoyable read)

Journey Into Gravity and Spacetime

In Search of Schrondinger's Cat

In Search of Schrondinger's Kittens

Godel, Escher, Bach (I find this book extremely boring, but it's considered by many other people to be very good)

A Brief History of Time

The Universe in a Nutshell

Gravity from the Ground Up

Chaos: Making a New Science

Particle Hunter

Alice in Quantumland

Six Easy Pieces

Six Not So Easy Pieces

[Icewalker]

Awesome, nice list. When I said any subject, that goes to the extent of combining the two and things like History of Science, so a book about physicists is most likely as viable as a book on physics.

Also, I'd just like to say, I was really hoping somebody would suggest Chaos, seeing as it was written by my uncle. :smallbiggrin:

[raitalin]

Don't know if you're American, or interested in U.S. history, but if you think you aren't you should check out The People's History of the United States and Lies my Teacher Told Me, they open up a whole new outlook on U.S. history that has almost no overlap with what is taught in school. Overthrow is another great source for the hidden history of the U.S.

I also heartily second A Brief History of Nearly Everything, Guns, Germs and Steel (and , by extension, Diamond's Collapse: How Societies Rise and Fall), and What the &#^$* do We Know? (both the movie and the book)

[Dallas-Dakota]

I'm sooooo gonna steal/read my brother's book who is going to do History at uni this year.

[Serpentine]

First historian? Hah, more like Father of Lies! :smalltongue:Yeah, that's what I said :smalltongue: To be fair to him, he was upfront about what he was doing. If I recall correctly, he stated that he didn't necessarily believe all the things people told him, but he was including it all so his readers could make up their minds (and, of course, his Histories were read out loud to an audience, who need entertaining :smallwink:)

Yes. Yes it is. It is absurdly easier, more functional, efficient, and will provide greatly superior things to read. Because do you really think I will be able to determine the details of the exact subject of a book, the level of focus, the level of detail, and most importantly the quality, from a title and maybe a one sentence description? The answer is no. So I can either run around my library blindfolded and hope I find some good texts, or I can ask this network of people who have read numerous interesting and apt texts, and can suggest those that I am actually looking for with assurance of quality, subject, and detail. So, yes, this is a hugely better method than looking through the thousands upon thousands of books in the index of a library to hopefully find some way to pick out the good texts..Actually... One of these books I've been reading basically said that this is the best way to research for history-writing. He lamented (sort of) the rise of online databases with which one can use keywords to find texts, because it means that you bypass all these apparently unrelated sources in which could be very valuable paths of research. But that's not what you're doing, so never mind then :smalltongue:

Iliad and Odyssey are definitely worth reading. Also, although I only read the bits about child-sex for an assignment, Satyricon looks pretty good, too.

[Icewalker]

I dunno, sounds like a really terrible idea to me. There are far too many books written on any given subject to even consider looking at all of them, and if you aren't going to do any narrowing searches you're just picking at random and likely not to get the most applicable source from the at least hundreds of books on the subject. If you include all books which might be tangentially related as well, it seems like you could spend solid months reading without necessarily getting any information on exactly what you need. There's too much material out there to NOT use searching functions.

For example, if you aren't narrowing your search: The UC Berkeley library alone has 3066 books which are related to Astrophysics. Say you want to be specific, and focus on black holes? Still 291 books. That's not a small enough list to just look through, especially when most of them are titled something along the lines of "stuff about black holes" with no other information available. And that's just UC Berkeley, not even the full UC system.

Of course, I will agree that coming to a forum with "find me books" isn't exactly the method I would use if I was say, trying to write a paper. :smallwink: But that's not what this is for, and this has already been a huge help to me, my list of potential future readings has just about doubled, and most of these new books are written to be read in a modern context instead of various ancient texts, so will likely be much more readable.

You know. Dao De Jing, Papyrus of Ani, The Hermetic Museum? Not terribly readable things. Interesting nonetheless though, and most of them are much shorter than I'd have guessed.

[Serpentine]

I dunno, sounds like a really terrible idea to me. There are far too many books written on any given subject to even consider looking at all of them, and if you aren't going to do any narrowing searches you're just picking at random and likely not to get the most applicable source from the at least hundreds of books on the subject. If you include all books which might be tangentially related as well, it seems like you could spend solid months reading without necessarily getting any information on exactly what you need. There's too much material out there to NOT use searching functions.This author talked about that, too :smalltongue: But it was more that focusing your search like that, when you're trying to find evidence for history, could prevent you coming across a source you otherwise wouldn't have considered. Say... You want to answer the question, "what sort of tasks did female slaves do in ancient Rome?" In an online database, you might put in "female OR woman OR girl slave Rome 400BC-200AD". This would come up with all sorts of information on women and slavery in Rome in this time period, personal accounts of female slaves and their owners, economic memos, political statements, etc. But it might miss an important statement in another otherwise unrelated text in which it was recorded that male freemen in a particular area were complaining about a particular job being taken over by female slaves. That's a not very good fictional example, but I think that's the sort of thing he was getting at...
But I don't particularly agree with him, and he himself acknowledged that the amount of sources is so overwhelming that that technique may not be viable anymore, anyway. And yeah, I did acknowledge that you're not trying to write history, here :smalltongue:

Hm. Readable ancient texts... In many or most cases it can depend on the translator. Translators of ancient poetry, for example, may aim to preserve the literal meaning of a text, the aesthetic intent, or the structural construction of it. Generally, I think I prefer somewhere between the first two. Anyway, Odyssey and Iliad aren't bad, and I don't think I had much trouble with Satyricon (though it would've been nice for the purposes of my essay to have an approximate age range for the word translated as "youth": Were they getting it on with a 22 year old, a 12 year old, or an 8 year old?). The Vinland Sagas is utterly readable, and simply brilliant.
Good luck with your reading! :smallbiggrin:

[Icewalker]

Yeah, I see what he means, just seems like in most cases it'd be too hard to apply.

Thanks :smallbiggrin:

The single most readable and most entertaining text I've read so far is the Norse text, The Prose Edda (http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/pre/index.htm). It's really just hilarious how much of a jerk Thor is. Like, wow.

[Eldan]

The Emerald Planet (http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/LifeSciences/EvolutionaryBiology/?view=usa&ci=9780192806024) is a nice little book we once read in an introductory course on paleobotany. It's about, well... the history of science, plants, palaeology, ecology, the weather... it's interesting, really.
It basically takes the entire development of land plants from the first ones with leaves to today and takes about how they influenced global climate and vice versa.
The only bad thing is that the author likes to get a little preachy about global warming.

[Icewalker]

That sounds awesome, although the global warming bit may get bothersome considering how many times I've heard it all, seeing as it's basically my dad's job. But, yeh. Sounds like a very interesting topic.