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View Full Version : [3.5] I dont need no darn Will saves...



Choco
2009-07-27, 01:39 PM
Alrighty, so I got me a character planned out, a Warforged fighter/barbarian/warforged juggernaught. He's completed all 5 ranks in juggernaught, so he is immune to mind-affecting, death, and necromancy effects.

So my question is, is there anything else that forces Will saves, or can I safely just use Wis as a dump stat and/or not have to worry about getting the Steadfast Determination feat?

Frosty
2009-07-27, 01:39 PM
Slow. Illusions.

Zergrusheddie
2009-07-27, 01:41 PM
Glitterdust is a notorious one as it is such a low level and can utterly screw a fighter type. Illusions

Choco
2009-07-27, 01:43 PM
Slow may be an issue... I'm gonna now need advice on how to get around that while still using Wis as a dump stat :smalltongue:

Glitterdust I am not worried at all about because I picked up a Blindfold of True Darkness just to counteract invisibility/blindness (All my fighter-types have one, wear it as a headband until they need to use it, then it's just a free action to pull it over the eyes)

Illusions I will leave to the more magically-inclined party members to help me out with, I don't expect to ever go up against them solo.

Zergrusheddie
2009-07-27, 01:47 PM
Well, assuming the party Wizard just drops a Haste it won't really matter aside from the fact that you will not be Hasted.

Choco
2009-07-27, 01:58 PM
ah yes, thats an easy solution. Also thought about it, and the blindfold will also take care of most illusions for me. Though if I did dump my Will saves I would be fodder for the Disable Construct spell... Hmm, guess I am burning a feat on Steadfast Determination, that plus a Cloak of Resistance +5 should cover my arse.

jmbrown
2009-07-27, 02:01 PM
Slow may be an issue... I'm gonna now need advice on how to get around that while still using Wis as a dump stat

Freedom of movement.

Choco
2009-07-27, 02:06 PM
Ah yes!! I forgot all about the Ring of Freedom of Movement! That would cover slow.

mcl01
2009-07-27, 02:12 PM
If your warforged manages to contract lycanthropy... :smallamused:

Frosty
2009-07-27, 02:14 PM
Freedom of Movement makes you immune to Slow? Nice.

peacenlove
2009-07-27, 02:16 PM
Planeshift (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planeShift.htm) would potentially screw you as well as many similar teleportation effects. The only way i can think as a defence is having a dimensional anchor as a defence or access to the gate spell :smalltongue:

Choco
2009-07-27, 02:19 PM
BAH!! so many... the odds of running into a lot of those spells arent that great, but the 1 time we do will be fatal...

Ah well, I can burn ONE feat to get Steadfast Determination (Con bonus to Will saves, AND no auto-fail on a nat 1 for Fort saves!). Being a Warforged and having full levels in Warforged Juggernaught gives me all the benefits of the Endurance feat so luckily I wont have to waste a feat to get that...

valadil
2009-07-27, 02:22 PM
Planeshift (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planeShift.htm) would potentially screw you as well as many similar teleportation effects. The only way i can think as a defence is having a dimensional anchor as a defence or access to the gate spell :smalltongue:

On that note, but not defensible with dim anchor, is Telekinesis. Your only defense against that is to weight more than 375lbs. Are there any greater Telekinesis type spells that could carry more weight?

peacenlove
2009-07-27, 02:33 PM
On that note, but not defensible with dim anchor, is Telekinesis. Your only defense against that is to weight more than 375lbs. Are there any greater Telekinesis type spells that could carry more weight?

Although i haven't statistics about Warforged aren't they completely made from metal? That alone, a good strength to carry stuff and an enlarge person from the friendly wizard (multiplies your weight by 8) and you might be over the weight limit.

Gorbash
2009-07-27, 02:34 PM
BAH!! so many... the odds of running into a lot of those spells arent that great, but the 1 time we do will be fatal...

Ah well, I can burn ONE feat to get Steadfast Determination (Con bonus to Will saves, AND no auto-fail on a nat 1 for Fort saves!). Being a Warforged and having full levels in Warforged Juggernaught gives me all the benefits of the Endurance feat so luckily I wont have to waste a feat to get that...

Juggernaut is spelled without H.

With that being said, even though you technically have the benefits of Endurance, you still have to waste a feat to fullfill the requirment for Steadfast Determination since, by RAW, 'having the benefits of the Endurance feat' and 'having the Endurance feat' are two entirely different things.

Choco
2009-07-27, 02:35 PM
Although i haven't statistics about Warforged aren't they completely made from metal? That alone, a good strength to carry stuff and an enlarge person from the friendly wizard (multiplies your weight by 8) and you might be over the weight limit.

Yeah, their base weight is 270, roll 2d6 for height and add 4x that to the weight. So factor in components and the weight limit should be reached.

Choco
2009-07-27, 02:37 PM
With that being said, even though you technically have the benefits of Endurance, you still have to waste a feat to fullfill the requirment for Steadfast Determination since, by RAW, 'having the benefits of the Endurance feat' and 'having the Endurance feat' are two entirely different things.

Not if your DM is reasonable :smallbiggrin:

mikeejimbo
2009-07-27, 02:38 PM
Juggernaut is spelled without H.

With that being said, even though you technically have the benefits of Endurance, you still have to waste a feat to fullfill the requirment for Steadfast Determination since, by RAW, 'having the benefits of the Endurance feat' and 'having the Endurance feat' are two entirely different things.

Man, that makes it even worse. You have to take Endurance AND Steadfast Determination even though you don't get anything out of Endurance. But Gorbash is right.

Steadfast Determination is a pretty good feat though. One of my DMs banned it.

Gorbash
2009-07-27, 02:40 PM
If he's reasonable, he'll change the feat prerequisite for Steadfast Determination into something else. By giving you a free pass, he's just making a good feat even better.


Man, that makes it even worse. You have to take Endurance AND Steadfast Determination even though you don't get anything out of Endurance.

Such is the case with almost any prerequsite feats. They're not meant to give you anything, they're meant to make you spend a feat to get one that's awesome.

jmbrown
2009-07-27, 02:41 PM
Yeah, their base weight is 270, roll 2d6 for height and add 4x that to the weight. So factor in components and the weight limit should be reached.

Hey not all wizards have to be wimps! There could be a wizard with 20+ strength and a casting of plane shift just in case he bumps into a juggernaut...

Choco
2009-07-27, 02:43 PM
Man, that makes it even worse. You have to take Endurance AND Steadfast Determination even though you don't get anything out of Endurance. But Gorbash is right.

Steadfast Determination is a pretty good feat though. One of my DMs banned it.

Heh, we ran into a similar issue with this DM before, with someone already having all the benefits of a feat but needing that feat as a prereq. I think the DM's almost-exact words were "WHY the $^&% would you need to take a feat to get something you already have just so you can count as having it to meet a prereq? That's #*%(&[email protected] retarded, you count as having it as far as I'm concerned"

He also doesn't ban/nerf ANY non-caster stuff. Yeah, he's a great guy :smallbiggrin:

ericgrau
2009-07-27, 02:48 PM
There may be a few here:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0456.html

EDIT: http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20spellfilter/ is even better.

Besides what's been mentioned, there's repulsion, sanctuary, scrying, blasphemy, chaos hammer, dictum, holy smite, order's wrath, shatter, unholy blight and word of chaos. Basically all the cleric abjurations and evocations.

Darrin
2009-07-27, 03:57 PM
Slow may be an issue... I'm gonna now need advice on how to get around that while still using Wis as a dump stat :smalltongue:

Glitterdust I am not worried at all about because I picked up a Blindfold of True Darkness just to counteract invisibility/blindness (All my fighter-types have one, wear it as a headband until they need to use it, then it's just a free action to pull it over the eyes)


You can get rid of Slow and Blindness with Iron Heart Surge. Moment of Perfect Mind might be worth picking up, too.



Illusions I will leave to the more magically-inclined party members to help me out with, I don't expect to ever go up against them solo.

You already mentioned the Blindfold of True Darkness. There are other ways to get blindsense/blindsight, tremor sense, etc.



Besides what's been mentioned, there's repulsion, sanctuary, scrying, blasphemy, chaos hammer, dictum, holy smite, order's wrath, shatter, unholy blight and word of chaos. Basically all the cleric abjurations and evocations.

The alignment-based spells can be ignored by going into Horizon Walker. This could also snag you tremorsense, too.

Curmudgeon
2009-07-27, 07:21 PM
You can get rid of Slow and Blindness with Iron Heart Surge. Sorry, Iron Heart Surge is only for effects with a listed duration of some number of rounds. Blindness/Deafness is Permanent, which doesn't fit the specification.

woodenbandman
2009-07-27, 07:27 PM
Shoot, that's easy. Just worship Odin and pray for knowledge of when the Ragnarok happens. When the world is destroyed, I think that the spell ends.