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Newspaper
2009-07-27, 05:04 PM
I'm starting a homebrew setting and I had an idea for Sorcerers I'd like to run by you guys.

In this setting sorcerers have a kind of 'arcane spirit' which they tap into to cast spells. I want to give them the ability to cast additional spells per-day but at the cost of energy/health.

I figured it would go something like this;

Arcane Exertion
A sorcerer can test his limits and cast extra spells per day. If a sorcerer casts an extra spell he takes nonlethal damage equal to twice the level of the spell being cast. He can cast any spell he knows like this up to one level below his highest spell level.

The problem I'm having is trying to figure out how to balance this ability so that the sorcerer does not gain too many extra spells, but I'd like it to be a viable part of the sorcerer's arsenal.

I understand that the first flaw is that there are no penalties for nonlethal damage until you reach/exceed your max hitpoints.

So here's the three ideas I thought might help.
- Change it to lethal damage taken.
- Require a concentration/spellcraft check to succeed (damage is taken even if you fail the check).
- Require a check with the penalty of failing changing the damage to lethal.

If the overall idea is just too overpowered then, please, flat out tell me.

Any ideas, comments, links to similar ideas, etc. would be really helpful, thanks!

P.S. I was also thinking of giving sorcerers the ability to add a metamagic enhancement to their spells at a similar expense. I'll probably work on that after this.

DracoDei
2009-07-27, 05:34 PM
As soon as the party can afford a wand of Cure Light Wounds this becomes much less of a barrier, and as soon as the cleric can cast "Cure Serious Wounds, Mass" he can delay his action to right after the sorcerer, and then get the meatshield and the sorcerer in the same casting. This hardly negates it as a balancing factor, but they are senarios to take into account.

CDR_Doom
2009-07-27, 09:32 PM
That sounds like an interesting idea for Sorcs. What if instead of non-lethal damage, they took potentially lethal, semi-permanent damage? What I mean is that the damage they take would be un-healable, like if your sorcerer had 27 hp and he cast an extra 1st level spell, his maximum hp would be reduced to 25 for some time period, 24 hours maybe. If they reduce their maximum hp to 0 or below, then they die.

AstralFire
2009-07-27, 09:46 PM
Each spell cast in such a way deals Con ability damage unless the Sorcerer makes a Fortitude saving throw of 10+(2xSpell Level). Spells of 0 - 3rd level deal 1 point of Con damage, 4th to 6th deal 2 points, 7th to 9th deal 3 points.

Eyeball attempt. Potentially too useful, still, since Restoration negates this entire thing, though that's more of my rant that Healing Is Too Powerful.

Sorcerers do not easily run out of spells per day past the low levels to begin with, so I don't think this will see a whole lot of use after 3rd level spells.

Newspaper
2009-07-27, 11:49 PM
I was checking out the magic variants on the d20 srd and saw the part about vitalizing spell points.

Anyways I like the jist of it. I think i'll have bonus spells based on Constitution (but highest spell level still based on int/cha) and I'll let sorcerers have the ability to cast additional spells.

Technically the system is for use with spell points but I don't see two much of a difference between points and slots. To cast another spell you have to succeed on a concentration check (DC 20 + spell level) and failure causes you to take lethal and nonlethal damage equal to level of spell attempted.

I may change this to only lethal or nonlethal damage (and possibly make it double level of spell).

AstralFire
2009-07-27, 11:58 PM
Damage = level of spell attempted in no way makes this a threat at high levels, you have to put in some kind of geometric multiplier or attack a stat directly. 9 damage for a timestop spell, or even 18, is really trivial. Works fine at low levels, though.

Power in D&D goes up geometrically, a linear limiting function won't do much.

Lysander
2009-07-28, 12:11 AM
What if using extra spells not only causes nonlethal damage, it also ages the sorceror? Maybe a steep price at a week per spell level?

For example, casting a level 5 spell might cause 5 non-lethal damage and age them 5 weeks. Sure, the difference with each casting would hardly be noticeable. But if they abuse the ability a young sorcerer would become a senior citizen over the course of your campaign. Perhaps a fort save would allow them to age half as much, but still...it'd be something your player wouldn't want to use except when necessary.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-07-28, 08:00 AM
What if using extra spells not only causes nonlethal damage, it also ages the sorceror? Maybe a steep price at a week per spell level?

For example, casting a level 5 spell might cause 5 non-lethal damage and age them 5 weeks. Sure, the difference with each casting would hardly be noticeable. But if they abuse the ability a young sorcerer would become a senior citizen over the course of your campaign. Perhaps a fort save would allow them to age half as much, but still...it'd be something your player wouldn't want to use except when necessary.

Although it might be useful for getting that +Charisma for being old.

Assuming of course that you don't care about the -Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution.

I agree with AstralFire; as is, it's too abuse-able at higher-levels. I like the Constitution penalty idea though. I also liked the semi-permanent idea, make it impossible to heal for 1d4 days? Although then you have to keep track of how much can't be healed for 2 days, then for 3 days. But Constitution damage is much more potent than non-lethal damage.

Draken
2009-07-28, 08:55 AM
Make it a fortitude save of 10+ twice the spell's level, success means non-lethal damage equal to twice the spell level. Failure means constitution burn equal to the ammount AstralFire listed.

The beautiful thing about ability burn is that the only way to recover t is through rest.

AstralFire
2009-07-28, 09:07 AM
I don't know why I didn't think of that. Thanks.

Newspaper
2009-07-28, 09:56 AM
Make it a fortitude save of 10+ twice the spell's level, success means non-lethal damage equal to twice the spell level. Failure means constitution burn equal to the ammount AstralFire listed.

So would there still be a skill check or just the fortitude save? Either way I like where this going. Thanks for all the help guys.

AstralFire
2009-07-28, 09:59 AM
No skill check - skills are often too easy to pump up if you know even a little bit about optimizing them, while it just becomes a burden for everyone else who's not willing to make a build choice that may seem totally unintuitive ICly. I wouldn't base something so fundamental and dramatic around them.