Servicemembers in the Playground [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Vmag

2009-07-27, 07:39 PM

I've noticed a little bit of confusion around here about the modern military being a death wish wherein you sign up, and your chances of coming home in one piece, physically or mentally, or at all, is slim to none.

I've also noticed that there are several other service members around here, as well as airmen.

Well, put two and two together. Here's an opportunity for civilian members to ask questions, anything at all really about the military life, and for those members who know better to get together and offer their personal experiences of anecdotes.

You might find that there really isn't much of the totalitarian Nietzsche-filled blood drama you'd think it be, if you didn't grow up in a military family. I'll admit that I was still stuck on Dad's stories from the 70s and old war movies, so the Army that I know and love is a lot different from, say, the Korean era.

So go ahead, don't be shy, ask anything you wish. No question is too blunt, too inquisitive, nor too obvious. Standard information awareness applies though.

Dracomorph

2009-07-27, 08:31 PM

Is the stop-loss program as horrible as it's presented by the news?

Edit: As in, are they preventing soldiers whose tours of duty are really over from leaving the military?

Timarvay

2009-07-27, 08:39 PM

Speaking as someone who has an interest in going to college on a military scholarship, then serving as an officer:

That is still possible, yes?

How long is the usual service commitment for officers?

For that matter, how fast are promotions for officers?

For anything relevant, my interest is mainly working in intelligence.

Vmag

2009-07-27, 08:43 PM

Is the stop-loss program as horrible as it's presented by the news?

Edit: As in, are they preventing soldiers whose tours of duty are really over from leaving the military?

I'll be honest, I'm not familiar with the particulars of that program. Most everything I know, I've learned the hard way by making a few mistakes first. Course, I've always been that way :smalltongue:

Most I know about anything sounding similar to that is that certain training programs that take certain large lengths of time require that you give the military a suitable number of months more, so as to make use of the free training given to you; likewise, Retention is always trying to keep people in, but that's just their job.

toasty

2009-07-27, 09:00 PM

Disclaimer: I'm not in the military. My uncle and 2nd cousins, however, are officers in the USAF.

That is still possible, yes?

As far as I know yes, I've seen ads in Boy's Life Magizine for Navy ROTC (reserve officers training corps) and I know that Baylor University in Texas has a Airforce ROTC program. Basically, US military gives you college money, you do extra training during the summer in addition to getting a Degree, and then you are given a Military Commission (for the army I think you start as 2nd Lt) when you graduate.

How long is the usual service commitment for officers? No clue, I'd think 2-4 years...

For that matter, how fast are promotions for officers?

I can't give specifics but I do know that it does matter what you end up doing once you join the military. Both of my relatives are Majors now, but one(the 2nd cousin) has been in the Airforce a lot longer than the other. My uncle (the other) is a navigator, that is, he's actually on planes flying over places like Iraq and the like. As such, he's gotten promoted faster.

Also another note: I've never wanted to join the military for the "you can get blown up" reason. The Navy has never appealed to me because well... I dunno, its the navy? That and the idea of having this super strict chain of command over me when I'm the kind of person who likes telling people what to do, doesn't really appeal to me.

Still, I do realize the Military is a good opportunity for many people. Both of my relatives got very good deals from the military and, as far as I know, have been very happy with their jobs, as happy as one can be I suppose.

Hell Puppi

2009-07-27, 09:37 PM

*makes gurgling noises in back of throat*

Sorry....seems I can't get away from military talk, even on the playground. Yes I know, I could ignore this thread but I just wanted to put in that my husband is Air Force, my dad is retired Air Force, brother is Army, most of my friends around here are Air Force, 2 cousins in the Army, uncle retired AF Pilot....

Yeah if I had those "Proud Air Force/Army/ whatever person" stickers on my car the thing would be covered.

So if anyone has any questions relating to being...a support figure? I'm good.

wxdruid

2009-07-27, 09:45 PM

Speaking as someone who has an interest in going to college on a military scholarship, then serving as an officer:

That is still possible, yes? I believe you'd join ROTC in college to get in on this.

How long is the usual service commitment for officers? Unsure, but the Lt grades and Capt grades in the USAF are automatic promotions (meaning you don't go before a review board and there isn't a test). Officers don't enlist like the enlisted people do.

For that matter, how fast are promotions for officers? 2Lt, 1Lt and Capt are pretty much automatic unless you do something stupid.

For anything relevant, my interest is mainly working in intelligence. For the Intel field, there are enlisted and officers. I've worked with some of them in the past. They tend to deploy a lot (to Iraq, Afganistan, Qatar, etc)

lvl 1 fighter

2009-07-27, 10:48 PM

Is the stop-loss program as horrible as it's presented by the news?

Edit: As in, are they preventing soldiers whose tours of duty are really over from leaving the military?

Yes. When I left the U.S. Army in '06 there were guys that had been stop-lossed and then sent on another deployment. It is not for every MOS and the list of MOS's changes periodically.

I haven't checked lately (read: past three years), but I presume that the stop loss program is still in effect.

wxdruid

2009-07-27, 10:52 PM

I think the Air Force has ended Stop Loss. I haven't heard about it in a few years and there are several people retiring/getting out at the normal time at the 15 Operational Weather Squadron.

Bonecrusher Doc

2009-07-27, 11:51 PM

If you want to go to college on scholarship and then be an officer, that's the ROTC program. (Not to be confused with Junior ROTC, which is basically a citizenship program for high schoolers.) The commitment is 4 years of active duty service for 4 years of college education. The fine print is that after those four years are up, your name stays on the roll of the Individual Ready Reserve for four more years in case of dire need.

If you are interested in ROTC, do not talk to the typical military recruiters. That's not their job. Their job is to get people to enlist. Instead, go to the ROTC websites and follow the directions there.
armyrotc.com
afrotc.com
nrotc.navy.mil (includes Marines)

When you graduate from college and finish ROTC you become a 2nd Lieutenant or Ensign. The current promotion rate to the next rank, 1st Lieutenant or Lieutenant Junior Grade, is about 2 years in the Air Force, Navy, or Marines and 1.5 years in the Army. Then another 2 years in the AF, Navy, Marines and 1.5 years in the Army to the next rank, which is Captain or Lieutenant. Wikipedia is your friend on understanding military ranks.

If you just want to go in the military but don't really care which branch, I highly recommend the Air Force. They tend to treat their people the best. Personally I'm in the Army and I'm very proud of it; if I had to do it over again I think I would still do the Army, but it's tough on the family and I'm actually making plans to transfer to the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps, which is a whole other kettle of fish.

Anyway, gotta go to work, but I have family in AF and Navy as well, so if any of you have any questions about any of this stuff, feel free to PM me or ask here.

skywalker

2009-07-28, 01:11 AM

Disclaimer: I'm not in the military. My uncle and 2nd cousins, however, are officers in the USAF.

As far as I know yes, I've seen ads in Boy's Life Magizine for Navy ROTC (reserve officers training corps) and I know that Baylor University in Texas has a Airforce ROTC program. Basically, US military gives you college money, you do extra training during the summer in addition to getting a Degree, and then you are given a Military Commission (for the army I think you start as 2nd Lt) when you graduate.

No clue, I'd think 2-4 years...

I can't give specifics but I do know that it does matter what you end up doing once you join the military. Both of my relatives are Majors now, but one(the 2nd cousin) has been in the Airforce a lot longer than the other. My uncle (the other) is a navigator, that is, he's actually on planes flying over places like Iraq and the like. As such, he's gotten promoted faster.

Also another note: I've never wanted to join the military for the "you can get blown up" reason. The Navy has never appealed to me because well... I dunno, its the navy? That and the idea of having this super strict chain of command over me when I'm the kind of person who likes telling people what to do, doesn't really appeal to me.

Still, I do realize the Military is a good opportunity for many people. Both of my relatives got very good deals from the military and, as far as I know, have been very happy with their jobs, as happy as one can be I suppose.

A good friend of mine just left for Naval Preparatory School (which is hard to explain, but it's for people who are good enough for the academy but aren't picked up. She gets to go to Annapolis next year). A couple of days ago, she had her "last Saturday as a civilian for 10 years." I thought it was funny and yet kinda scary at the same time.

In my experience, ROTC involves running very early in the morning (the classes have low enrollment and they try to advertise around campus) and a variety of other potentially less than pleasant things. The AFROTC program at my Uni involves classes in things you'd expect AF officers to know. It kinda sucks because their military history classes are only open to those who are in the program.

All of the services have some "getting shot/shooting people" potential, otherwise they wouldn't make you learn how to use rifles at the beginning. The Navy sounds less dangerous, until you read about these things (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-ship_missile), and realize that people sink just as easily as boats.

Zeb The Troll

2009-07-28, 03:13 AM

If you want to go to college on scholarship and then be an officer, that's the ROTC program. (Not to be confused with Junior ROTC, which is basically a citizenship program for high schoolers.)Note that this is not the only way to get the military to pay for your education. One popular enlistment incentive is the Montgomery GI Bill, which is worth upwards of $60,000, paid directly to you, while you are enrolled in an approved training program (usually this means college, but they also pay for vocational schools and computer training programs, for example). This is intended to be used once your enlistment ends, though there are occasions when it can be used while still active. I can give further details on this if desired. Furthermore, while active, one can take advantage of many in service educational assistance programs such as Tuition Assistance, which covers up to 75% of education costs for many of the same programs that the GI Bill covers, and free CLEP and DANTES tests.

Many schools accept these test results in lieu of classroom time for basic core classes like English, Math, and a Social Science. For example, you can take enough CLEP's to pretty much test your way out of your Freshman year with only a little bit of studying. Different schools will have different criteria for what they will and will not accept, but at hundreds to thousands of dollars per course, plus time spent, any course you can test out of is a huge boon towards getting your degree sooner and more inexpensively.

The commitment is 4 years of active duty service for 4 years of college education. The fine print is that after those four years are up, your name stays on the roll of the Individual Ready Reserve for four more years in case of dire need.This bit about the IRR is true for everyone, regardless of branch, enlisted or commissioned. When you sign on the dotted line you are committing yourself to 8 years of total service. If you enlist for three, you'll be enrolled in IRR for 5 more once you get out. Stay in for 10 like I did? Your obligation is already covered. And, while it is possible to be recalled from IRR, it is not at all common.

Quincunx

2009-07-28, 04:26 AM

Well, given the start time of the thread, it's not too surprising that only the U.S. armed forces have spoken up so far, but what the hey, we haven't got a monopoly on armies. Is there anyone around who's stayed in their country's armed forces beyond the national draft? (Not that people in the drafts haven't got valuable input, but discussing the simple act of it seems to inflame tempers. Proceed with caution.) Anyone who's enrolled in a different country's military?

It says something when a jeep bristling with antenna whips rolls down the city street, soldiers and guns poking out on the horizontal*, and the American is the only disconcerted one in the group. Does it startle the rest of you or am I a cosseted civilian?

*Guarding an armored car bank transfer, Ireland. Possibly put in place after the '04 bank raid in Northern Ireland. Certainly has been done since '06.

KuReshtin

2009-07-28, 04:42 AM

I wouldn't have minded at all doing some time in the military service, but apparently, they didn't want me.

I Sweden, we have the general conscription (although it's about to be removed in a few years, apparently) and when I was about 16 or 17, I got called in to do all the physical and mental testing they want to go through to see if they can make use of you in the armed forces.

Turns out, that the only thing they wanted me to do was sit in some store depot someplace in the middle of nowhere for about a year as a desk clerk.
At the time, I was attending a vocational school in the health-care feld, and had aspirations to become a paramedic, but to be accepted to the paramedic course, I'd need a year's work experience in the health sector of some sort, so I told them taht at the interview and said that if I could be a medic in the military, I could use that as 'work experience' and get into the paramedic school, but apparently they didn't like that reasoning, so they wanted me to do desk clerk stuff instead.

I wasn't too thrilled about sitting around doing paperwork for a year, so instead I opted to be put in the reserve, which means that I'll most likely never be called into military service.

LCR

2009-07-28, 04:44 AM

I thought about joining the German navy, but then decided against it, because promotion is too slow (seriously ... lieutenant commander by the time you're 40?), we don't really have many large ships and I thought I'd be wasting my talents with them. Also I'd found I rather disliked war and armies by the time I finished high school and so far, I have no regrets about not joining.

Vmag

2009-07-28, 07:00 AM

If you just want to go in the military but don't really care which branch, I highly recommend the Air Force.

I've gotta disagree with you there, buddy. Air Force is a nice in-between for college and the functional outside world, but there's a lot going against it. Everyone assumes Air Force to be the default "safe" option, so it's a Very congested service. Can you imagine having to take the same career length as everyone else but promote at a snail's pace? Shudder!

If you really don't care which, or want the safe option, I'd recommend Navy, to be honest. They truly have the best benefits among the services, plus they have normal promotion rates. As an added bonus, you'll be doing work to help the global war efforts from the relative safety of your party-boat off the coast of Thailand or Guam, more likely than not.

My best friend just started up Navy Basic just last week. I would have loved for her to have gone Army, into a similar career field as myself, but sailors are just as cool and she's got herself a much tougher job than mine lined up. Couldn't be prouder.

Surfing HalfOrc

2009-07-28, 09:53 AM

Timarvay

2009-07-28, 10:04 AM

Yiuel

2009-07-28, 10:18 AM

Well, many members of my family were or are part of the Canadian military forces. This includes my father, sister and brother-in-law-of-the-same-sister, two aunts (out of four, but the fourth's one's husband is also in the military). Yeah, pretty much surrounded. But it wasn't for me.

wxdruid

2009-07-28, 11:05 AM

The rate of enlisted promotion in the AF is determined by a few things.

Airman Basic, Airman, Airman First Class and Senior Airman is a given (unless you do something stupid). If you have college credits you can possibly enter as an Airman First Class instead of an Airman Basic.

After that you test. Your score is determined by time in service, time in grade, decorations, enlisted performance reports, SKT (job knowledge) and PFE (AF knowledge). The first two automatically increase the longer you're in the AF. Decorations come as you PCS, do something fantastic, etc and certain ones like AF Commendation Medal are worth 3 points each. Your SKT and PFE scores depend on you and if you study.

After everyone takes the test, they stack them, highest score on top, lowest on the bottom. They determine how many people they need of the next rank up and then take that many off the stack. This is called the cut off score. The cut off score varies by career field. Sure, if your career field is small they will promote fewer, but if you join a large career field and study hard you should at least make Master Sergeant (E-7) or higher before 20 years.

My career

Airman First Class - 2 Nov 1994 (when I entered the AF)
Senior Airman - 2 Sep 1996
Staff Sergeant - 1 Apr 2000
Technical Sergeant - 1 Jun 2004

I have taken the test for Master Sergeant 3 times and missed it by 20 points, 40 points and 20 points and that's because I haven't seriously studied.

--------------------------------------------

Language pay is if you are proficient in a foreign language. There is a test for it.

--------------------------------------------

The other incentive pay is determined by your job and some of it is determined if you are in a war zone or not.

When I went to Iraq I received Family Separation Pay, Combat Pay, Hostile Fire Pay, Imminent Danger Pay and did not pay any federal or state income tax.

There is also extra pay for Military training instructors (teach at basic training)

Surfing HalfOrc

2009-07-28, 11:19 AM

I've been looking through the parts on pay;

The basic pay is obvious, but how much could I expect to get in all the bonus pay they have listed?

The language pay, I assume, since learning languages is no problem for me, but what others do people tend to get?

Bonus pays are subject to several different things, which can change depending on your individual situation...

Language pay depends on both your fluency and the military's needs. I had several friends who were fluent in Spanish, but never got any bonus money because the military had plenty of Spanish speakers. OTOH, speaking Arabic, Chinese, Korean or other languages could get you the bonuses you seek.

Sea pay goes up the longer you are at sea. I waited until after I had completed 2 "Haze Grey and underway" combat ship tours before deciding to get married, so when I went to my third ship, the "Neversail" I got a lot of sea pay, even though we never got underway. :smallwink:Yeah, Me!

There was also limits of how many special pays you could get (two, when I was in), so the SEALs I worked with took the danger pay and the parachute pay, but passed on the demo pay since it was the smaller of the three amounts. I took the demo pay since I wasn't a frogman, and wasn't elegible to jump out of perfectly good aircraft. So if you're a carrier sailor, you can get sea pay and flight deck pay, but not other pays.

(Keep in mind, this information is 5 years out of date. See your recruiter for more details.)

skywalker

2009-07-28, 11:53 AM

If you really don't care which, or want the safe option, I'd recommend Navy, to be honest. They truly have the best benefits among the services, plus they have normal promotion rates. As an added bonus, you'll be doing work to help the global war efforts from the relative safety of your party-boat off the coast of Thailand or Guam, more likely than not.

Bad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exocet) things (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cole_bombing) can happen on ships. I'm just sayin'.

Sea pay goes up the longer you are at sea. I waited until after I had completed 2 "Haze Grey and underway" combat ship tours before deciding to get married, so when I went to my third ship, the "Neversail" I got a lot of sea pay, even though we never got underway. :smallwink:Yeah, Me!

There was also limits of how many special pays you could get (two, when I was in), so the SEALs I worked with took the danger pay and the parachute pay, but passed on the demo pay since it was the smaller of the three amounts. I took the demo pay since I wasn't a frogman, and wasn't elegible to jump out of perfectly good aircraft. So if you're a carrier sailor, you can get sea pay and flight deck pay, but not other pays.

What exactly is "SEAL support?" And what is the "Neversail?"

RS14

2009-07-28, 12:19 PM

Bad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exocet) things (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cole_bombing) can happen on ships. I'm just sayin'

For what it is worth, the Air-Force had the lowest percentage of casualties of the major branches of the US armed forces in Vietnam, perhaps due to their greater logistical needs (and therefore lower proportion of frontline troops). The Navy had the second lowest percent. They also have taken few casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan for fairly obvious reasons. So yes, it is a relatively safe branch.

Surfing HalfOrc

2009-07-28, 12:31 PM

Bad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exocet) things (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cole_bombing) can happen on ships. I'm just sayin'.

What exactly is "SEAL support?" And what is the "Neversail?"

I was never a SEAL, so I'm careful to say so. I worked at SDV Team 1 in Pearl Harbor. The SEALs assigned there needed support people to store and issue ammunition, repair and maintain equipment, process paperwork, etc, so they could focus on training and performing their missions. If you weren't a SEAL, you were support.

"Neversail" is a term for a ship that rarely gets out to sea. As opposed to the "Neverdock," a ship that is continously at sea. Ships assigned to Japan and other overseas stations get the reputations of being Neverdocks, while repair ships like the submarine tender I was assigned to rarely put out to sea since the submarines that needed repairs usually had it done while they were in port. Easier to get parts delivered...

lvl 1 fighter

2009-07-28, 01:09 PM

There was also limits of how many special pays you could get (two, when I was in), so the SEALs I worked with took the danger pay and the parachute pay, but passed on the demo pay since it was the smaller of the three amounts. I took the demo pay since I wasn't a frogman, and wasn't elegible to jump out of perfectly good aircraft. So if you're a carrier sailor, you can get sea pay and flight deck pay, but not other pays.

(Keep in mind, this information is 5 years out of date. See your recruiter for more details.)

I was a Paratrooper in the 82nd so I pulled jump pay. I didn't mind jumping out of those "perfectly good" aircraft as long as I had a parachute. I put perfectly good in quotations because some of those C-130 Hercules were gettin on in their years. One jump there was an electrical fire - mostly just smoke - but there were no jump refusals on that jump, believe me. :smallsmile:

I never heard of the restrictions on special pay, but the only two I ever got were Jump pay and the Imminent Danger pay when I was in Iraq. Some guys got what were called contract marriages to get the Family Separation pay, as well as BAH. Doing that is of questionable ethics, but some guys do it. I never did.

In order to keep getting some types of special pay (Jump pay for Airborne duty, Dive pay for Navy Divers) you have to keep up your qualification, or quals. For paratroopers that amounts to at least 4 jumps a year. Supposedly they are to be once a quarter, but usually you just get in where you fit in. My dad was a Navy diver and to maintain his quals he had to have 4 dives a year as well. It was fun going to the pool as kids and trying to wrestle in the shallow end. We'd have contests to see who could hold their breath underwater the longest, but an 8 year old is not going to outlast a Navy diver. :smallsmile:

Bonecrusher Doc

2009-07-28, 02:29 PM

I've gotta disagree with you there, buddy. Air Force is a nice in-between for college and the functional outside world, but there's a lot going against it. Everyone assumes Air Force to be the default "safe" option, so it's a Very congested service.

Yeah, I guess I said Air Force because that's the one that you'll be most likely to spend the most time at home with your spouse and kids, if you have them. Also, I don't know about Navy bases, but Air Force bases tend to be pretty nice compared to the Army. For example, it has happened on occasion that Air Force personnel staying in Army housing have received "substandard housing allowance" (extra pay) from the Air Force because the Army housing was judged to be pretty crappy.

This is a gross generalization, but my impression is that in the Air Force, your job is your job. You may have some weapons training and physical fitness to maintain, but your primary concern is whatever your specialty is, whether it's medicine or meteorology.

In the Army, you are a soldier first, then whatever your specific job is - which is kinda cool 'cause you get a little more "GI Joe" and a little less "Chair Force," but it can be frustrating as it's kind of like having two jobs. Unless you are in a "combat arms" branch, and then soldiering is all you do.

I don't know much about the Marines, but my impression is that it's like the Army "soldiers first" policy, but more so - even the pilots get extensive infantry training. (I actually think the Army modeled some of their "everyone is a rifleman" training on the Marines, possibly encouraged by the Jessica Lynch business where some support soldiers were allegedly not too proficient in their land navigation and combat skills. But, citation needed.) Most of the Marines' support needs are fulfilled by the Navy, so the Marines can focus on being combatants.

And I have no gross generalizations to make about the Navy or the Coast Guard. I just know that with these branches you are likely to spend some time away from home on a ship or boat even during peacetime. Which you might see as a good thing or a bad thing.

A couple items still somewhat warm off the presses, for what they're worth:

Army ROTC Language Pay (http://www.army.mil/-news/2008/08/14/11673-army-offers-language-bonus-to-rotc-cadets/)

Army Stop-Loss Policy Changes (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/washington/19gates.html)

Thanatos 51-50

2009-07-28, 02:45 PM

20 year retired Navy vet here, 3 ships, (destroyer, frigate, sub tender) 2 shore duties (torpedo shops and waterfront liaison), 1 "in-between"(SEAL suport). Plus schools and Boot Camp, and a little of this and a little of that.

Joined in 1984, retired in 2004, so most of my information is semi-current.

Ask away.

Likewise - I'm currently in my third year of Naval service, and on opertaional Shore Duty (Overseas in Japan).
Just less than a third of my time has been spent underway - two DDGs and a CV.
Joined in 2006, but I'm an idiot, so whilst I can acquire current information, there's no garuntees I know it off-hand.
"Neversail" is a term for a ship that rarely gets underway, like Surfing HalfOrc said.

lvl 1 fighter

2009-07-28, 02:48 PM

Yeah, I guess I said Air Force because that's the one that you'll be most likely to spend the most time at home with your spouse and kids, if you have them. Also, I don't know about Navy bases, but Air Force bases tend to be pretty nice compared to the Army. For example, it has happened on occasion that Air Force personnel staying in Army housing have received "substandard housing allowance" (extra pay) from the Air Force because the Army housing was judged to be pretty crappy.

In the Army, you are a soldier first, then whatever your specific job is - which is kinda cool 'cause you get a little more "GI Joe" and a little less "Chair Force," but it can be frustrating as it's kind of like having two jobs. Unless you are in a "combat arms" branch, and then soldiering is all you do.

From my experience, both are true.

When I was at Jump school is when I first heard about Air Force getting paid extra to stay in "sub-standard" Army barracks. The barracks at Airborne School are not the best, but it kinda bothered me as a soldier that other military men and women from a different branch got paid extra to stay in the barracks that my branch provided. Just one of those things that generates heat between the different branches.

The last two or so years I was in they really started pushing the "soldier first" concept (05/06). There were a bunch of new things to memorize (the Warriors code, I think one was called), and they established a new set of training standards for garrison time. IIRC it focused on basic soldering skills, like BRM and land nav, evaluating a causalty, convoy operations, etc. All these things had been standard for Sergeants Time training anyway, but for some reason I recall them putting a different spin on it; packaging it a different way.

RS14

2009-07-28, 03:39 PM

Oh, one thing I've been wondering about for a while. Do soldiers in combat wear hearing protection? Does it interfere with communication?

Vmag

2009-07-28, 04:22 PM

Air Force bases tend to be pretty nice compared to the Army. For example, it has happened on occasion that Air Force personnel staying in Army housing have received "substandard housing allowance" (extra pay) from the Air Force because the Army housing was judged to be pretty crappy.

This is true, they do get paid more. We've had a ton of airman at my last Army base, and now me and a bunch of soldiers are crowding up an Air Force base, so I've got room for comparison here from both sides of the fence.

The Air Force "dorms", from my limited experience, are a lot more motel-like, whereas all my Army barracks have simply been nice rooms. They also have their own bus boys, at the Air Force DFACs. So totally justifies getting the extra pay to live in one of our places, but hey, gives us more fodder for friendly sibling rivalry :smallamused:

lvl 1 fighter

2009-07-28, 04:41 PM

Oh, one thing I've been wondering about for a while. Do soldiers in combat wear hearing protection? Does it interfere with communication?

A friend of mine was in the infantry. I'll ask him tomorrow.

Vmag

2009-07-28, 05:31 PM

Ear protection is a standard piece of gear to take with you. Ruptured ear drums do not do well for mission readiness, nobody wants to go deaf at twenty, and, let's face it, waking up to bloody pillows is just plain disturbing.

Lex-Kat

2009-07-28, 07:26 PM

Oh, one thing I've been wondering about for a while. Do soldiers in combat wear hearing protection? Does it interfere with communication?
I worked on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier, so I don't know about the gun-toters, but we were given double hearing protection. Which makes it nearly impossible to hear, unless they are standing right next to you and shouting. :smallsmile:

That's why we were taught various hand signals. I'm certain that the soldiers have hearing protection available. But with or without it, they use hand signals, so communications isn't compromised due to the noise of combat, or equipment breaking down.

rankrath

2009-07-28, 07:54 PM

Oh, one thing I've been wondering about for a while. Do soldiers in combat wear hearing protection? Does it interfere with communication?

Hearing protection is a must when dealing with guns. As far as interfering with orders, I know that earmuff style hearing protection designed for firearms use blocks out sound above a certain decibel level, but allows for conversation to take place.

Thanatos 51-50

2009-07-28, 09:18 PM

I know they issue hearing protection on Carriers and on smallboys in noise-intensive areas. (Hey, YOU sit near the SONAR dome without earplugs and see how much you like it)
I also know that double hearing protection is required on the Flight Deck (From observing Flight Ops).
It's not too much of a streach to assume that infantry gets PPE beyond Kevlar, as well.

lvl 1 fighter

2009-07-28, 09:22 PM

Oh, one thing I've been wondering about for a while. Do soldiers in combat wear hearing protection? Does it interfere with communication?

I suppose I could answer with my own experience about it.

The earplugs they gave us were for use in the aircraft during an airborne op. Here's a picture of what they looked like (http://media.midwayusa.com/highres/453211.jpg). Supposedly one end blocked more noise than the other but I couldn't ever really tell the difference between a few decibels when you're standing in a C-130 about to jump. Maybe a C-17 was louder; I don't remember if there was a difference.

Bonecrusher Doc

2009-07-28, 11:38 PM

Oh, one thing I've been wondering about for a while. Do soldiers in combat wear hearing protection? Does it interfere with communication?

There are special ear plugs with holes in them that theoretically allow you to hear speech but protect your ears from the noise of gunshots. Now, do people actually wear them? I'm not sure as I've never been in direct combat, but I suspect a lot of the time they do not. If you're on patrol, not knowing when you might take contact, you'd rather risk damaging your hearing than risk not hearing something important and possibly life-threatening.
One problem is they just came out recently and they don't have them in multiple sizes yet. Mine are too big for my ear canals so they're kinda painful, so I wear different ear plugs when I'm at the rifle range.

EDIT - yeah, that picture Lvl1 posted is what I'm talking about. You wear the olive drab side out to protect your ears from gunshot sounds, and you wear the yellow side out to protect your ears from sustained noise like aircraft engines or machinery.

skywalker

2009-07-29, 01:07 AM

There are special ear plugs with holes in them that theoretically allow you to hear speech but protect your ears from the noise of gunshots. Now, do people actually wear them? I'm not sure as I've never been in direct combat, but I suspect a lot of the time they do not. If you're on patrol, not knowing when you might take contact, you'd rather risk damaging your hearing than risk not hearing something important and possibly life-threatening.
One problem is they just came out recently and they don't have them in multiple sizes yet. Mine are too big for my ear canals so they're kinda painful, so I wear different ear plugs when I'm at the rifle range.

I think this is just common sense. We can all look at photos in the news paper, etc. How many guys have you seen with olive drab plugs sticking out of their ears?

I have never seen a soldier wearing muff-style protection in combat pictures, even those that increase your ability to hear soft sounds.

I personally was present for an AD (.270 rifle) inside a house, and while it was loud, it wasn't terribly loud. I fully understand that you don't want to do it all the time, but I think it's important to consider that most of the time you're "in combat," you're not shooting. From what I understand of modern warfare, the actual period of time spent shooting or being around shooting tends to be rather quick. Add in the fact that that brief period of time is probably the most important time of your life for you to be able to hear, and I think it's a no-brainer.

Personally, I'm not sure why they don't figure out a way to get the big muffs into the helmet. Several people I know say they amplify the sounds of game while hunting, and soft range commands at the range.

Vmag

2009-08-01, 02:10 PM

lvl 1 fighter

2009-08-01, 02:15 PM

Vmag

2009-08-01, 02:27 PM

Excellent way to enhance the discussion! Let us question the existence of the lemon, rather than enjoying its sour, delicious pulp.

At any rate, I don't have a military-heavy background myself. Dad was in back in the 70s, when things were WAY different, and his testimonies are where I got most of my initial military impressions. They were rougher around the edges in his days, though you could get away with a whole lot more back then; you'd be kicked out today for half the stuff that went off as normal back then, but I'd probably be beaten up back then for half the stuff I do today :smallamused: He insists that Full Metal Jacket and Apocalypse Now are very accurate portrayals of his 1970s Army.

Naturally, my going in within a post-2000 world with 1970s expectation was quite the shock. Here I was expecting a harsher, more severe in-your-face environment in which your Will and Fort Saves were put against the toughest of CRs.

Imagine my surprise where, instead of an ultimate dictatorian brainwash-filled environment, I found... care.

Now that's something I never knew in any of my civilian jobs. In all of my civ jobs, they tried to indoctrinate their new hirees from the start to think, feel, sleep, breed The Company. It was a very cutthroat world back in the civilian life, where lives were used as pawns and men were pushed to the limits of their capabilities for fat-cat managers far from the kitchen of battle. Injuries? Illnesses? Family responsibilities? Those meant nothing for the greater good of the Company you signed your life away to.

The training videos... The pep meetings... The rampant brainwashing... the 800 dollars a month! :smalleek:

Here I was expecting that sort of treatment from the Army, going by 30 years-outdated movies and anecdotes, but instead found the most concerned employment opportunity of my life.

An abundance of benefits, both for my own health and my family; special care given to whatever personal needs I might have, and heck, I've never been so healthy in my entire life. The best part is, I'm actually treated like a human. The one thing missing from every other job I've had.

Bonecrusher Doc

2009-08-01, 02:43 PM

People who live on a kibbutz see their life as normal, while those who are not familiar with it see it as odd. It's just a subculture.

However, the military is a subculture which some feel has gradually become more distinct since WWII ended, and that is distressing to many of us who are part of military families. It used to be that EVERYBODY had a close relative in the military and therefore a connection to it. Nowadays many military families feel isolated from the rest of society because they feel they are not understood. So it's great that people are interested and participating in this thread!

I only speak from what I know about the U.S. military; would be interested to hear from folks in other countries.

Hannes

2009-08-01, 03:24 PM

skywalker

2009-08-01, 06:24 PM

How's this one for those who are or were in: What were your impressions of the military life or your respective services before going in and how did you find the actual life on the inside to be different from your initial impressions, if any?

Granted, I'm seeing a larger number of members from deeper military backgrounds than I expected, but your views on things are messed up from the start; what you all take for normal, the rest of us just see as odd. Ergo, a wider variety of backgrounds would be appreciated.

Surely not everyone here joined up just because daddy was a Petty Officer and great uncle was a Major. No normals?

Excellent way to enhance the discussion! Let us question the existence of the lemon, rather than enjoying its sour, delicious pulp.

At any rate, I don't have a military-heavy background myself. Dad was in back in the 70s, when things were WAY different, and his testimonies are where I got most of my initial military impressions. They were rougher around the edges in his days, though you could get away with a whole lot more back then; you'd be kicked out today for half the stuff that went off as normal back then, but I'd probably be beaten up back then for half the stuff I do today :smallamused: He insists that Full Metal Jacket and Apocalypse Now are very accurate portrayals of his 1970s Army.

Naturally, my going in within a post-2000 world with 1970s expectation was quite the shock. Here I was expecting a harsher, more severe in-your-face environment in which your Will and Fort Saves were put against the toughest of CRs.

Imagine my surprise where, instead of an ultimate dictatorian brainwash-filled environment, I found... care.

Now that's something I never knew in any of my civilian jobs. In all of my civ jobs, they tried to indoctrinate their new hirees from the start to think, feel, sleep, breed The Company. It was a very cutthroat world back in the civilian life, where lives were used as pawns and men were pushed to the limits of their capabilities for fat-cat managers far from the kitchen of battle. Injuries? Illnesses? Family responsibilities? Those meant nothing for the greater good of the Company you signed your life away to.

The training videos... The pep meetings... The rampant brainwashing... the 800 dollars a month! :smalleek:

Here I was expecting that sort of treatment from the Army, going by 30 years-outdated movies and anecdotes, but instead found the most concerned employment opportunity of my life.

An abundance of benefits, both for my own health and my family; special care given to whatever personal needs I might have, and heck, I've never been so healthy in my entire life. The best part is, I'm actually treated like a human. The one thing missing from every other job I've had.

Is it just me, or are people acting strange today?

How are these two quotes supposed to line up?

wxdruid

2009-08-01, 06:31 PM

I'm the first person in a few generations to serve in the military. My father is a retired High School teacher and certainly didn't expect me to join the Air Force.

I joined after college. I had difficulty finding a meteorology job at that time, the National Weather Service wasn't hiring very many people. I worked odd temp jobs and at one talked to a retired Air Force guy. It was informative... Now, 14 almost 15 years later I don't even remember the conversations.

I joined the military to get a job. I went in Open General, :smallyuk: and when it came time to put down jobs I wanted, there were no wx ones. I even had copies of my transcripts, but, whatever. I ended up with my 5th choice, Financial Management. Tech School was at Sheppard AFB, TX and was nice and short. Off I went to the wonderful state of Kansas for my first base.

At the 3 yr point and my second base, I put in paperwork to cross train into weather. It's the only career choice I put on the list. I had an interview with the Station Chief at the weather shop at Offutt AFB, NE and he included my transcripts with his letter of recommendation and off I went to Observing and Forecasting schools down at Keesler AFB. At Observing school I was, of course, head of my class, and only missed 3 questions on all the graded/recorded tests. Then Hurricane Georges came for a visit at Keesler and I had catlover. In Sept...off to Forecasting school (top of the class again) and then off on my weather career at Shaw AFB, SC then to Camp Humphrys, South Korea, back to McConnell AFB, KS and now Scott AFB, IL.

As for the life. It's different. If you stay in long enough and you go to a base where you don't like people, I always tell myself, either they'll move or I will (and that solves the problem). The base itself usually has a department store where you don't pay sales tax, a grocery store, a burger king, a gas station and other things that military people usually need. I do know that I have a steady job. I do know that I can get ahead if I choose to. Of course there are office politics, but your advancement is based more on what you do, not necessarily by what your boss is doing. Although a rotten boss can bring down everyone they supervise, but I haven't seen a great percentage of those. On the other hand, my friend Heather is constantly worried about if her job will be there tomorrow and where she will be living. Most of my siblings are also concerned about how to survive. One sister and her husband are currently unemployed, one brother does contract art work.

I live in a base house, sure it's not the greatest, but it works and I live close to work. They have maintenance people to come fix it and people who mow the front and side yards. catlover goes to daycare in base housing and I know that her house is constantly inspected so that she meets the standards of the Family Services Center. Up to 5th grade she went to an Elementary school within walking distance of our house and she has quite a few friends in the housing area that she can go see. I don't worry so much about her running around.

Downsides...the emphasis on fitness and my natural inclination to be lazy. Also, I'm not to fond of the war exercises where I have to carry an M16, dive under the table, put on a gas mask, walk around in chem gear or body armor. But, that doesn't occur that often, so I make it just fine.

Hannes

2009-08-01, 07:25 PM

wxdruid

2009-08-01, 09:18 PM

I work rotating shifts since the weather happens 24/7, 365 days a year, including holidays. Right now I work from 2:30pm to 10:30pm, although how many shifts I work in a row varies. I can work anywhere from 1 shift then a day off, to 5 shifts in a row with 1-2 days off, sometimes 3 days off. The days of the week don't mean much to me. My days off are my weekend. So...my schedule for Aug goes something like this.

work 2nd-5th
off 6th
work 7th-10th
vacation for GenCon 11th-20th
work 21st-22nd
off 23rd
work 24th-26th
off 27th
work 28th-31st

I work shift work. I go to work in my uniform and then come home afterwards. The only times I don't are when we're 'playing war' or I'm on a deployment (like to Iraq or Qatar). So, most of the time it's like a regular job, other times (not often) it's more military oriented.

When I worked in Finance I worked 8 hrs a day, sometimes 9-10 hrs, Monday through Friday.

THAC0

2009-08-01, 10:46 PM

My main idea, though, was how exactly are you working in the military? Do you stay on-site for a long time, then get home for some time or is it more like a day job in that you get up in the morning, go to work and then come back during the evening?

My husband is AF. When he's home, he goes to work in the morning and comes home at night, unless there's an exercise or something in which case he'll do either day or night 12 hour shifts.

Sometimes he gets sent to training for weeks/months at a time. And sometimes he gets deployed for longer.

There are some career fields though where you do go out for, say, two weeks, live in a bunker looking at a button, then come home for two weeks, etc.

Bonecrusher Doc

2009-08-02, 12:20 AM

I'm basically supposed to be at work from 7:30 to 4:30 Monday-Friday, and I frequently stay late a little bit to get some things done. I'm fortunately allowed to do physical training on my own time, but many people in the Army do organized physical training in the morning before work.
If I need to go to the doctor or the dentist or the finance office that's no problem, I'm given time for those things. This Saturday I was required to be at work from 7:30 to noon for a counter-terrorism/mass-casualty drill.

Like THAC0 said, depending on your job you might work in cycles where for 2 weeks out of 8 you are "in the field" doing training 24 hours a day.
EDIT: I might not have that exactly right but that's the jist of the idea. Somebody who actually does it please correct me; I remember my brother being on "gold" cycle and "black" cycle, etc.

It all depends on your job. If you're flight crew or a nurse or military police you might work swing shifts or something unpleasant like that.

WarBrute

2009-08-02, 12:37 AM

There is a quirky tradition( or more of a pattern in my family) where the middle child always serves in some kind of military branch (generally marines). Being the youngest my older brother is currently serving in Iraq. He has two more weeks there. The frustrating thing is I won't be able to see until two weeks after he comes back to the states because technically he will still be on duty working on an air base.

lvl 1 fighter

2009-08-02, 12:59 AM

In Estonia we have compulsory military service: every man who's 18-26? I think has to pass medical, mental and physical tests in order to see if they're fit for the training.

Now, I have asthma + many environmental allergies (pollen), so going is totally out of the question for me.

But I was wondering, how is life as a professional Military (Wo)Man? How does it feel like? How do you live? Etc etc.

Living in a country without compulsory military service I'm curious as to how the citizens of your country view their compulsory service. Is it something that is just accepted, do people argue for the end of compulsory service, or is it a popular policy?

Quinsar

2009-08-02, 01:05 AM

I'm a contractor, if that counts...

skywalker

2009-08-02, 01:38 AM

Living in a country without compulsory military service I'm curious as to how the citizens of your country view their compulsory service. Is it something that is just accepted, do people argue for the end of compulsory service, or is it a popular policy?

I have often thought about this. I live in the States, so it's not like I know, but I've given it a lot of thought.

I'm opposed to it on general principle. It's unethical to require it, IMO. I won't claim to have all the answers tho. I just like our system better. Studies have also shown that volunteer forces are far more effective than conscripted ones. That's one reason why I'm opposed to conscription. Another reason I'm opposed to it is that there's no incentive to make it better. For instance, in comparing the old Soviet system (conscription) to the U.S. system (voluntary service), you'll see what I'm talking about. The U.S. system gets only those who want to serve. They will be intrinsically better motivated than someone who is being forced to. As well, it is generally known that our service-members are happier. This is partially because the Army (for example) must incentivize service, because they must compete with all the other opportunities Bonecrusher and WX Druid (again for instance) had. The Soviet system didn't have to compete for recruits, so it had no reason to make life or benefits of service any better.

On the other hand, I'm a strong believer in service, philosophically. I don't hold everyone to my standards, but if I wasn't willing to stand up and defend the place where I lived, I'd get busy finding a place I was willing to stand up for. Obviously there are people who won't, period, and that's ok. By extension, my nation's military is ostensibly protecting my interests when they wage war on foreign soil. I think there's something to be said for the "pay to play" attitude.

I do disagree somewhat with the way military men and women are created, in that in some ways a soldier (marine, etc) is distilled from a "normal" person, and that person is psychologically changed, especially in the case of a marine.

To end the wall-of-text, I'd wager that a country like Estonia, being only recently liberated from the Soviet Union, there is a lot of strong patriotism and willingness to serve. Just a complete guess, tho. I have not researched it in the slightest.

Hannes

2009-08-02, 03:27 AM

Dewey

2009-08-02, 09:28 AM

To all you AF folks out there, I'm considering joining myself, and what I want to know is this: To what degree can I choose what I want to do? Do you get to choose your specialty, or is it chosen for, or what?

wxdruid

2009-08-02, 09:47 AM

If you're patient (unlike me) you can get a guaranteed job in the Air Force. You have to know what you want though and what you want out of it. Is there anything you want in particular? I know a little about a few career fields, mostly the ones I interact with. Do you have any college credits?

If you go in Open General like I did, then you have less choice. But, 14 yrs ago, they told me in basic training when I was filling out the list of jobs I wanted that if I did NOT want the job, then not to put it on the list. So I did not put Security Forces on my list. Another girl did and she went into Security Forces. She argued and whined about it, but she put it on her list.

skywalker

2009-08-02, 11:36 AM

Let's say that people mostly loathe it, due to the fact that it's compulsory. It's just nine months or so, but that's a long time if you want to make a career or have a family. But I do understand why we have conscription and not voluntary - See, if we had voluntary, there would be a very small percentage of the population versed in wielding firearms. A very small percentage of about 1.5 million people. But if you take all the people who've passed military training, you've got a much more substantial number. Would the people be willing to go to war to defend their country? Most probably. Would they go through training during years of totally boring peacetime? Most probably not.

Well, I was completely wrong.

That's funny, isn't it, that people would be willing to, but not willing to go thru the training? I think here in the States we have a slightly more active culture when it comes to "training to defend your homeland," but at the same time I'm pretty sure the precentage of our population with firearms and the training to use them has continued to decrease...

Not really the biggest deal, because who's gonna invade us? Canada? No offense meant, I love Canada. Which is kinda the point. I'm pretty sure Canada loves the US, so why would they invade us?

LCR

2009-08-02, 11:55 AM

Coidzor

2009-08-02, 12:27 PM

That's funny, isn't it, that people would be willing to, but not willing to go thru the training? I think here in the States we have a slightly more active culture when it comes to "training to defend your homeland," but at the same time I'm pretty sure the precentage of our population with firearms and the training to use them has continued to decrease...

Not really the biggest deal, because who's gonna invade us? Canada? No offense meant, I love Canada. Which is kinda the point. I'm pretty sure Canada loves the US, so why would they invade us?
Well, originally hunting was fairly intrinsic to survival, or at least an economical way to add a protein supplement to the diet. Also, having to fight at one time or another for possession of most of the continental, and a good chunk of the overseas too.

They finally want to get back at us for all of the times we tried to annex them?

I don't find it particularly funny or surprising, really. When the enemy is at the gates, it's fight or flight, y'know. Whereas if times are relatively peaceful and you can go about your life as you wish, most will not elect to give up their limited freedom over their life temporarily in order to defend it actively or be prepared to defend it later.

Dewey

2009-08-02, 03:37 PM

Is there anything you want in particular? I know a little about a few career fields, mostly the ones I interact with. Do you have any college credits?

I am interested in emergency management and security forces, I don't have any college credits (I just graduated High School), and If I do join, I don't plan on making it my career. Also, I don't have a driver's license, is that a problem?

wxdruid

2009-08-02, 03:51 PM

Don't know about the license part. For Security Forces the most common jobs seem to be manning the gates and running speed traps on base. Manning the gates involves checking people's ID cards and making sure they can come on base. It also requires you to stand outside in all weather. It's like the weather career field in at least two things. You'll be working shift work and working most if not all holidays.

Minimum enlistments are 4 years for the Air Force. As an airman basic (and if you're not married) you'll live in the dormitories and eat at the dining facility. Living in the dorms is sorta like apartment life...if you know all your neighbors and their personal lives. But, you won't pay electric, trash, or basics like that. You will pay for cable, phone, internet and other extras. The dorms are all on the main area of the base (at least at every base I've been to).

I don't know much about Emergency Services, sorry.

Pay Tables (http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militarypaytables/2009MilitaryPayTables.doc) or here (http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militarypaytables.html). To read it, go down to E-1 and 2 yrs or less and that is the basic pay after being in for > 4 months (1399.50) and under note 5, an E-1 w/ < 4 months of service makes 1294.50. Most of that (minus taxes other deductions) will go into your pocket. You don't pay rent at the dorms.

Thanatos 51-50

2009-08-02, 04:07 PM

My main idea, though, was how exactly are you working in the military? Do you stay on-site for a long time, then get home for some time or is it more like a day job in that you get up in the morning, go to work and then come back during the evening?

ESID, (Everyone's Situation is Different), but heres is a brief run-down of how my work schedule goes.
Starting on the day cycle:
0545 - 1745, Mon - Tues
Off, Wends - Thurs
0545 - 1745, Fri - Sat - Sun
Off, Mon - Tues
0545 - 1745, Wends - Thurs
Off Fri - Sat - Sun
1745 - 0545, Mon - Tues *
Off, Wends - Thurs
1745 - 0545, Fri - Sat - Sun
Off, Mon - Tues
1745-0545, Wends - Thurs
Off, Fri - Sat - Sun
0545 - 1745 Mon - Tues
Continue pattern,

*This is my current location in the cycle

Dewey

2009-08-02, 04:10 PM

Thanks for the info, but why is there no value for E-1s after two years? does it not increase, or is there an automatic promotion or something?

Quincunx

2009-08-02, 04:26 PM

Heh. . .I can't speak for the U.S. military teaching one how to drive, but here (Ireland) I saw a troop carrier trundling through downtown with a GIANT L-plate (that's a learner's permit) tacked onto the back. It countered the camouflage paint to great comic effect.

wxdruid

2009-08-02, 04:28 PM

E1 to E2 to E3 to E4 are automatic promotions (unless you do something stupid and they withhold it). You spend a certain amount of time in the enlisted grade, then put on the next stripe.

If you come in as an Airman Basic

Promotion to:
Airman (E-2) after 6 months
Airman First Class (E-3) after 10 months as an Airman
Senior Airman (E-4) after 36 months in the military and 20 or 28 months as an Airman First class.

As a four year enlistee you can expect to make Senior Airman by the end of your enlistment.

The 20 to 28 months time period is dependent on what grade you came in as and if you become eligible to be promoted early to Senior Airman.

loopy

2009-08-02, 04:38 PM

Dallas-Dakota

2009-08-02, 04:41 PM

Not thinking about joining the army/airforce/navy but how do they view people with Authism?

I don't really have it, but I've been diagnosed with PDDNOS(that's the rest group, and I've been diagnosed with a light case at that), so I'm curious.

nothingclever

2009-08-02, 04:43 PM

Be a champ and don't mention it and I think you won't have any problems.

Every once in a while I think about joining the military but I wonder how interesting the Canadian forces are considering they are extremely small and mostly doing peace keeping operations in little places.

If I don't have several chances to scalp people in my hypothetical military career I'm seriously discouraged.

wxdruid

2009-08-02, 04:49 PM

@ loopy, dining facilities vary based on where you are. In the desert (Iraq and in Qatar) the food was the same and after a month I knew which main dishes I liked and which ones to avoid. They always had some tasty dessert. :smallbiggrin:

@ DD the Cookiemonster, I've never met a military member that I knew they had Autism. My youngest sister is Autistic and I know she'd never make in the military. She has state assistance with finding a place to live and a job.

Thanatos 51-50

2009-08-02, 05:07 PM

Dewey

2009-08-02, 05:20 PM

Another question, in the Air Force how likely would I be to be deployed overseas, and where would I go?

loopy

2009-08-02, 05:25 PM

Breakfasts are usually universally loved aboard ship, other meals much less so.
I do mean much.

Why would that be? Breakfasts because they are so much better, or lunch and dinner cos they are so much worse? :smalltongue:

wxdruid

2009-08-02, 05:29 PM

In Security Forces, after all your training is completed, you are probably on the highly likely to deploy to the desert list. They always need more security forces personnel over there.

Most common locations, Qatar, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan with a few other locations thrown in around the area.

loopy

2009-08-02, 05:48 PM

If you guys had to make a Pros and Cons list of joining your particular branch of the Armed Forces, what would be on the list?

Shades of Gray

2009-08-02, 07:29 PM

2 uncanny coincidences with my Great-Uncle, a WW2 Air Force Pilot.

1) One day he got a cold, so he couldn't go out flying on a mission. His entire squadron was wiped out. He only lived because he got a cold.

2) We were talking about WW2 in my high school class, and they asked us if we had any relatives who fought in the war. I told them about my Great Uncle, who's job it was to mark where German submarines were so they could bomb them out of the water. The kid sitting next to me was from Germany, and his Grandfather was an anti-aircraft submarine pilot.

lvl 1 fighter

2009-08-02, 07:34 PM

A question to all servicemembers!

Whats the food like? Both garrison and field rations, meals per day and servings, I'm interested in anything you guys can remember about the food they serve those in the service. :smallsmile:

(loopy thinks with his stomach)

Any Aussie servicepeople about? I know we don't really have the military tradition that the US does, but still. :smallsmile:

Here's some tasty U.S. Army food. The Alphabet Soup of Combat Rations (http://www.quartermaster.army.mil/oqmg/professional_bulletin/2001/Winter01/The_Alphabet_Soup_of_Combat_Rations.htm)

If you guys had to make a Pros and Cons list of joining your particular branch of the Armed Forces, what would be on the list?

A Pro for me was getting Airborne School in my enlistment contract. You can still mess up and not go, or fail out, but I had a guaranteed spot.

nothingclever

2009-08-02, 08:03 PM

2) We were talking about WW2 in my high school class, and they asked us if we had any relatives who fought in the war. I told them about my Great Uncle, who's job it was to mark where German submarines were so they could bomb them out of the water. The kid sitting next to me was from Germany, and his Grandfather was an anti-aircraft submarine pilot.
Invite him to watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sQhTVz5IjQ) movie with you on the 21st of this month. I'm sure he'd be delighted to accompany you.

Thanatos 51-50

2009-08-03, 12:23 AM

Why would that be? Breakfasts because they are so much better, or lunch and dinner cos they are so much worse? :smalltongue:

A little bit from column A, alottabit from column B.

skywalker

2009-08-03, 12:54 AM

I don't find it particularly funny or surprising, really. When the enemy is at the gates, it's fight or flight, y'know. Whereas if times are relatively peaceful and you can go about your life as you wish, most will not elect to give up their limited freedom over their life temporarily in order to defend it actively or be prepared to defend it later.

To me, it is quite obvious that if you aren't prepared when the time comes, you won't be able to get prepared in time. I understand that humans are wonderful improvisational creatures, but we also need a base from which to improvise. I can improvise a lot of things within my areas of (even limited) expertise, but I can't improvise a damn thing in a nuclear control room (besides a catastrophic meltdown). Likewise, I'm sure someone with no firearms training can improvise shooting something, but whether or not it's the thing they want to shoot in a life-or-death situation is looking marginal, to me. Maybe I'm just more self-aware?

Heh. . .I can't speak for the U.S. military teaching one how to drive, but here (Ireland) I saw a troop carrier trundling through downtown with a GIANT L-plate (that's a learner's permit) tacked onto the back. It countered the camouflage paint to great comic effect.

A friend of mine is allowed to drive Humvees in the Army but has no civilian license. He has failed his learner's permit test 3-4 times now. It kinda scares me that the Army trusts him with a big (well, not for them, but for me!) piece of equipment when he can't even get a permit (apparently he's failed because of not understanding the "yield" sign 3(!) times.

2) We were talking about WW2 in my high school class, and they asked us if we had any relatives who fought in the war. I told them about my Great Uncle, who's job it was to mark where German submarines were so they could bomb them out of the water. The kid sitting next to me was from Germany, and his Grandfather was an anti-aircraft submarine pilot.

That really is crazy.

lvl 1 fighter

2009-08-03, 01:46 AM

A friend of mine is allowed to drive Humvees in the Army but has no civilian license. He has failed his learner's permit test 3-4 times now. It kinda scares me that the Army trusts him with a big (well, not for them, but for me!) piece of equipment when he can't even get a permit (apparently he's failed because of not understanding the "yield" sign 3(!) times.

I joined the Army without a drivers license. I went through the Humvee drivers training course, got certified for Humvees and LMTV's. I got my regular drivers license after I got back from Iraq - the sandbox was my own version of high school drivers ed. :smallsmile:

Dewey

2009-08-03, 09:21 AM

This might be too political, so I'll tread carefully, but if I do deploy to the Middle East in the Air Force, what could I expect?

THAC0

2009-08-03, 10:19 AM

This might be too political, so I'll tread carefully, but if I do deploy to the Middle East in the Air Force, what could I expect?

That... depends. On so many things. What your job is, where specifically you go...

To put it in perspective, people in my husband's career field are currently breaking down doors, or alternatively sitting in AC working on a computer.

Vmag

2009-08-03, 11:17 AM

This might be too political, so I'll tread carefully, but if I do deploy to the Middle East in the Air Force, what could I expect?

I'm seeing a heavy lean towards Air Force Security Forces, so not much. Like said, gate guard and ticketing service members doing the fighting for you. Probably Kuwait or Qatar. I knew a Security Forces guy that used to go out and do door-kicking with the Army, but that was way back in his Desert Storm days. I think these days his real job is some department store.

I never had my license till about a year and a half into my services, and that's a male American not at all being able to drive until age 22! Never was a problem, as it really isn't that much of a job requirement unless your specifically going into a driving job.

As an example, I had a buddy in Basic that was going to be a truck driver. Probably a step or two above Security Forces and MPs. He got busted for drunk driving once, lost his license, so they took his truck job and gave him the choice between parachute rigger or supply. Parachute rigging requires jump school, essentially rigging your own chutes. You can guess which job he picked.

wxdruid

2009-08-03, 11:20 AM

When I went to the desert (once to Qatar, once to Iraq), I sat in an a/c building and watched the weather. In Qatar I had to endlessly update powerpoint slides with the weather for Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait, Qatar and the Horn of Africa as well as watch the weather where I was. We had to watch for dust/sand storms that might affect the airfield and put out heat advisories.

In Iraq, I sat in a large room at the Palace and watched the weather over Iraq. If the weather was nice, I did maybe 30 min of work each night. If the weather was bad, I had to watch the weather closer. I had to carry my M16 everywhere I went and it was hot! Even at midnight when I walked to midnight chow and to my trailer it would still be 100F. I was always glad to see the Palace, it meant a/c and indoor plumbing. :smallbiggrin: At either location, indoor plumbing is a luxury.

At both locations I lived in a trailer with a roommate. I rarely saw them because we both worked every day and on opposite shifts. My trailer section was big enough for my bed, wall locker, nightstand and a chair. The bathrooms/showers were in a different building. I had to walk out and across the way just to use the bathroom. And I just remembered, I do have some pics in my photobucket that I shared before.

door to my trailer (http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i262/wxdruid/Life%20out%20here/mydoor.jpg)
part of my room. (http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i262/wxdruid/Life%20out%20here/mytrailer.jpg) The side strips turned out to be metal, so I had my daughter send me plenty of magnets from home.
I had to live in a tent with 10? other women for 2 weeks til a trailer opened up. (http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i262/wxdruid/Life%20out%20here/mycot.jpg)
This is looking down the street of trailers. (http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i262/wxdruid/Life%20out%20here/lookingdowntherow.jpg) They're all behind the concrete.
And here it is during a dust storm. (http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i262/wxdruid/Life%20out%20here/DSC03270.jpg[/url)
The palace where I worked. (http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i262/wxdruid/Life%20out%20here/DSC03270.jpg)
walking up to the Palace to go to work (http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i262/wxdruid/Life%20out%20here/entrancetoAlFaw.jpg)
The crazy fish (http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i262/wxdruid/Life%20out%20here/thefish.jpg) in the lake surrounding the palace. They'd eat anything!
The rotunda. (http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i262/wxdruid/Life%20out%20here/therotunda.jpg) If you watched The Colbert Report when he broadcast from Iraq - He was here (to bad I wasn't there at the time).
and Me with my M16 (http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i262/wxdruid/Life%20out%20here/DSC03255.jpg[/url)

((all of these pictures were in areas people were allowed to take pictures...))

Vmag

2009-08-03, 11:23 AM

At either location, indoor plumbing is a luxury.

It used to be bad. Early on, we still had to dig holes and burn our own poop. Not only is it safer these days than ever down there, but conventional wisdom says the luxuries are better down range than they are stateside :smallamused:

((all of these pictures were in areas people were allowed to take pictures...))
Your "secret" is safe with us, Batman.

Hell Puppi

2009-08-03, 11:23 AM

Air Force MP's can still do things like patrol and going around in humvees in the desert, they usually have to sign up for it though to run around with the Army.

Lots of them do, though, just because they don't want to feel like they're stuck 'behind the fence' and not doing anything. Once you get to a certain rank though they don't really let you volunteer.

@ below- I know they let you bring a laptop and books, but I'm not sure what else.

Dewey

2009-08-03, 11:31 AM

Thank you all for the great answers, and (surprise surprise) I've got another question: What (if any) civilian gear can you bring with you? as in, can you bring a laptop, books, etc?

Thanatos 51-50

2009-08-03, 11:36 AM

'board ship, for underway periods, I often bring the following:
Laptop
Books
Digital Media Player
Nintendo DS Lite

wxdruid

2009-08-03, 11:39 AM

I took my laptop, iPod, camera, some clothing, books, movies, stuff like that. Whatever you want to take has to be balanced by how much you're willing to lug around airports and your staging point in the desert. You will already have 2-3 A bags (big green unwieldy bags), your suitcase and even more stuff than you ever imagined taking. I left prepared boxes at home for someone to send to me once I got there. Both times I ended up sending 5-8 boxes home with the postal service so I wouldn't have to carry it.

Most clothing consists of your uniforms, boots, socks, t-shirts, under things. In my off time I had to wear the Air Force Physical Training uniform. I didn't have a choice about that. My pj's were mine however.

Bonecrusher Doc

2009-08-03, 11:58 AM

Be aware that you can't really have any of that stuff in Basic Training (laptop, iPod).

When you deploy, you can bring just about anything you have room for. That may not be much more than some extra space in a backpack, but I know a guy who somehow finagled some space in a shipping container and brought his electric bike to Iraq. :smalltongue:

EDIT: And to those concerned about preexisting medical conditions preventing them from enlisting, it never hurts to ask. There is such a thing as a medical waiver.

wxdruid

2009-08-03, 12:02 PM

Thanatos 51-50

2009-08-03, 12:03 PM

Be aware that you can't really have any of that stuff in Basic Training (laptop, iPod).

Yeah, dude. You are allowed to bring the following to boot camp (Navy).

Some cash
religious pendant/amulet/necklace
Manual razor
Toothpaste/brush

Of these, the Navy will provide the following for you.
Manual Razor
Cash Card worth X dollars, automatically deducted from your first few paychecks.
While I didn't see anyone bring one in with them, I know you're allowed religious reading material (Some people had it shipped to them), as long as it's stowed properly. It should be noted that I don't keep a BoS, and as such have no clue how the Navy will treat such an item (Likely not like other religous books.)

toddex

2009-08-03, 12:07 PM

If anyone in the air force could ask around for me, is hypothyroidism an instant disqualification? And can you be kicked out of the air force if you develop an issue that would normally be a disqualification during recruitment, while in the air force?

Cubey

2009-08-03, 12:12 PM

I recall someone asked on opinion on military service in countries with compulsory enlistment, so here's how it is in Poland:

It's considered a waste of time which could be spent finding a job or studying, and people who cannot dodge it in one way or another (you do not have to serve if you have physical or mental disabilities, study at a university, or are female) are viewed as stupid since they couldn't join even a crappy college. There is a small minority who considered that you aren't a "real man" until you serve, but they are like I said a minority, and they are mostly old men or (ironically) housewifes whom no one takes seriously.
Living conditions are bad. Accomodations are at bare minimum. Food is bad. Bullying by senior enlisted is, or at least was until a few years ago, rampant - there is even a colloquial term for that, fala (the wave). Bullying by actual officers is rare, but so is them caring about anything that's going on. Training is very rudimentary - outside of regular physical exercises, the conscripts barely do anything. I've read an article by a young man fresh out of military, and the dominant feeling of his service was boredom. There was nothing to do - he just sat around the barracks, their luxury level comparable to Polish prisons, little personal belongings allowed (a DS? A book? You jest!), no exercises of any significance waiting for him in the near future, hoping the "elder" conscripts will not put him through another humiliating hazing that wouldn't look out of place in Full Metal Jacket.
Another person I know personally who served had it better, with rather benevolent superiors and little bullying, since not only did he join a good unit (and an artillery one, not infantry), he wasn't computer-illiterate like most conscripts so he had a desk job. But it was still very boring and rather pointless - there are simply no options given for someone who finishes the compulsory service, becoming a professional soldier is no easier for you than for someone who did not serve. And the pay is... well, it is crap.

In other news, compulsory service has been permanently suspended this year. Good riddance.

Vmag

2009-08-03, 05:10 PM

...is hypothyroidism an instant disqualification? And can you be kicked out of the air force if you develop an issue that would normally be a disqualification during recruitment, while in the air force?

I'm as far from Air Force as you can get.I work for a living!
However, service is service and MEPS is MEPS. The blind evil eye of MEPS distinguishes not by what service you be, but by how well you duck walk.

With that in mind, simply ask. Ask your local Recruiting Station about what the service's policy is on certain medical conditions, and they will know better than us; we all Might have a general idea of what's a no-go and what they'd give a waiver for, and they give waivers for Everything these days, but the Recruiters know intimately what can and cannot pass; if they don't, they know who to ask and where to look.

If it's doable, they'll even work with you to get you what you need.
A lot of people give Recruiters flak, but they're the good guys on your side. It's MEPS that will mess you up, throw away everything you and your recruiter worked towards, and give you a job as Combat Medic instead.Almost got me that time, Batman!
They are an immensely valuable resource for all your initial entry needs; take advantage of them.

Dewey

2009-08-03, 09:39 PM

How tough is Air Force basic training? I'm not in the best shape, would that be a big issue?

wxdruid

2009-08-03, 09:49 PM

Currently the PT fitness standard in the Air Force is based off a 1.5 mile run, push ups, sit ups, waist measurement and your weight.

The guy next to me says he had to complete

Run time 11 min 30 seconds for 1.5 miles
push ups 45
sit ups 50
as many pull ups as you can do.

That's what he says all the males in basic training had to be able to do when he went through in Jul of 2006.

skywalker

2009-08-04, 12:26 AM

Yes, in basic training they confiscate everything civilian that you brought with you. There are a few exceptions: toothpaste, toothbrush, shampoo, religious books. You get everything else you need while you're there from the military.

To flip the script, they own most of the important things in your life while you're there. I'm told this is part of the psychological process of Basic.

While I didn't see anyone bring one in with them, I know you're allowed religious reading material (Some people had it shipped to them), as long as it's stowed properly. It should be noted that I don't keep a BoS, and as such have no clue how the Navy will treat such an item (Likely not like other religous books.)

If you don't mind my asking, what's a BoS?